How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
We just booked round trip to NZ for 80k miles each way in business. So deals are out there but are fewer and harder to find.
The switch to dynamic pricing took away many of the really good deals. And the multiple devaluations and limited J availability have also hurt the value and useability of miles.
I don’t think I’d chase FF miles anymore if I didn’t have mid five figure airline spend annually (mostly paid by my employer).
The switch to dynamic pricing took away many of the really good deals. And the multiple devaluations and limited J availability have also hurt the value and useability of miles.
I don’t think I’d chase FF miles anymore if I didn’t have mid five figure airline spend annually (mostly paid by my employer).
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
How I pine for the good old days of UA award redemption. Ms. Cruise and I used to fly yearly round trip International First which we got by booking it exactly 330 days in advance. Our combined travel and modest CC spend were enough back in the day.
With mileage/point inflation, it is much harder to get great value, but we still find some. We recently flew J to Japan on ANA from the West Coast using UA miles/Chase UR points. Tickets were about 90K points each. Given that I average over 2 UR points per dollar, I figure those award tickets were paid at the rate of 8 cents per miles/points. Can’t recall the exact numbers now, but it was way above a 2% cash back rate.
A few years ago, we earned so many AA miles on an expensive itinerary that we were able to use those miles to fly J to Japan on an AA partner.
Of course, on point for the OP, one has to spend a lot to make this work, or play SUB games.
With mileage/point inflation, it is much harder to get great value, but we still find some. We recently flew J to Japan on ANA from the West Coast using UA miles/Chase UR points. Tickets were about 90K points each. Given that I average over 2 UR points per dollar, I figure those award tickets were paid at the rate of 8 cents per miles/points. Can’t recall the exact numbers now, but it was way above a 2% cash back rate.
A few years ago, we earned so many AA miles on an expensive itinerary that we were able to use those miles to fly J to Japan on an AA partner.
Of course, on point for the OP, one has to spend a lot to make this work, or play SUB games.
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
I fly internationally for work about 4-5 times a year. Company policy allows business class, which recently had run about $10k for my destinations. This translates to about 80k miles per trip (in part because I have platinum 1k status which adds a multiplier for miles).
If you are just flying coach domestic and don’t have status, you’d dozens of flights to earn the same. It’s a different game.
If you are just flying coach domestic and don’t have status, you’d dozens of flights to earn the same. It’s a different game.
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
I find this thread really surprising.
American points are incredibly valuable. I have taken three round trips to Europe on points in the last 18 months for 60,000 points each (total, round trip). Checking various dates, similar rates are available right now from my hub (DFW). Notably, this is roughly the sign up bonus for one of the AA cards!
Southwest points essentially have a cash value, so although there aren’t as many “sweet spot” redemptions, it’s easy to get good value. Particularly with the Companion Pass.
Finally, outside airfare, Hyatt, Marriott, and IHG points can all be worth accumulating.
American points are incredibly valuable. I have taken three round trips to Europe on points in the last 18 months for 60,000 points each (total, round trip). Checking various dates, similar rates are available right now from my hub (DFW). Notably, this is roughly the sign up bonus for one of the AA cards!
Southwest points essentially have a cash value, so although there aren’t as many “sweet spot” redemptions, it’s easy to get good value. Particularly with the Companion Pass.
Finally, outside airfare, Hyatt, Marriott, and IHG points can all be worth accumulating.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
The devaluation was pretty awful, but take a look at Delta SkyMiles and you'll think United is incredibly generous. I've been able to book US-Europe in peak summer travel season for 60K miles one-way business class (now 80K), it took some searching over several days but even now I see some availability. Delta wants 320K miles for the same route even with a less direct itinerary.MtnTravel wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 9:01 am We fly United, but do not have a United or Chase credit card. I typically pay cash for flights, and have (what I thought was) a decent stock of miles from flights we've taken for work and vacation. A couple months ago we were looking at flights to Europe during off season. The number of points required is astronomical, and that's just for coach. Domestic flights aren't much better. And now United just devalued their points further.
Does anyone find value in points anymore? If so, how and what airline? Obviously you can rack up points with credit card sign up bonuses, but unless you fly a TON for work, or spend 6 figures on a card per year, how do you do it?
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
Even if they are not as valuable as before, I still find value from time to time. I am doing a circle routing for an upcoming trip: home to LA, LA to SF, SF to home. The home to LA segment is $218 RT or $209 one- way, with similar pricing on the SF to home segment.I could book 2 OW using United miles for about 16,000, so better than $00.025 per mile. And when my Mom was sick in 2019, I often booked last minute flights to and from SFO on United at 12500 or less, which avoided steep last minute fares.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
Pretty much have given up on using miles on Delta, United, American using their own miles. Alaska still has a reward chart that can be helpful, but the others are just too many miles, even with sign on bonuses and spend.
I want to give up on the whole game, but when I'm about to throw in the towel, I find some great deal using Virgin Atlantic miles, or Flying Blue, or Aeroplan, or Avios, to fly the same routes that are prohibitively expensive using the Big three's systems. They really are making you work hard these days to use your miles. Or maybe that's how it has always been.
My recommendation to most people these days is to get a CSR and use their portal for 1.5 cents per point.
I want to give up on the whole game, but when I'm about to throw in the towel, I find some great deal using Virgin Atlantic miles, or Flying Blue, or Aeroplan, or Avios, to fly the same routes that are prohibitively expensive using the Big three's systems. They really are making you work hard these days to use your miles. Or maybe that's how it has always been.
My recommendation to most people these days is to get a CSR and use their portal for 1.5 cents per point.
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
Miles are regularly devalued so it doesn't pay to hold them a long time (believe me, I know). I just checked yesterday from the US to Buenos Aires in November. It was around $90k miles and $110. Basically, I am getting around a penny a miles. Not terrible, but not great. If you are very flexible and plan in advance, your miles will go way farther.
I also tend to go for the cash back option with credit card bonuses these days. Way more flexible and that has to count for something.
I didn't read the whole thread, but depending on where you are going in Europe you could fly to somewhere that takes less miles (meaning less desirable generally) not too out of the way using miles and then book a cheap flight to wherever you want to wind up.
I also tend to go for the cash back option with credit card bonuses these days. Way more flexible and that has to count for something.
I didn't read the whole thread, but depending on where you are going in Europe you could fly to somewhere that takes less miles (meaning less desirable generally) not too out of the way using miles and then book a cheap flight to wherever you want to wind up.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
Domestic economy is actually (post covid) a sweet spot. I am getting 2-3.7 cents of value for domestic economy fares quite frequently this year and last and that is a somewhat unfair comparison because the cash fares are not refundable whereas the points booking are for free or $5.60/leg depending on how booked. In some instances that refundability has real value to me. All that said I find United by far the worst of the big three in releasing saver award space at least on the routes I book.SuzBanyan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:40 pm Even if they are not as valuable as before, I still find value from time to time. I am doing a circle routing for an upcoming trip: home to LA, LA to SF, SF to home. The home to LA segment is $218 RT or $209 one- way, with similar pricing on the SF to home segment.I could book 2 OW using United miles for about 16,000, so better than $00.025 per mile. And when my Mom was sick in 2019, I often booked last minute flights to and from SFO on United at 12500 or less, which avoided steep last minute fares.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
Check out this article about United's devaluation from yesterday from The Points Guy:MtnTravel wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 9:01 am We fly United, but do not have a United or Chase credit card. I typically pay cash for flights, and have (what I thought was) a decent stock of miles from flights we've taken for work and vacation. A couple months ago we were looking at flights to Europe during off season. The number of points required is astronomical, and that's just for coach. Domestic flights aren't much better. And now United just devalued their points further.
Does anyone find value in points anymore? If so, how and what airline? Obviously you can rack up points with credit card sign up bonuses, but unless you fly a TON for work, or spend 6 figures on a card per year, how do you do it?
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-wo ... aluations/
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
I tend to do and think the same.protagonist wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 11:44 am I find Chase UR points to usually be better than airline miles programs, when combining Freedom cards with a Sapphire card. I have downgraded all my old airline cards to free cards to keep my points, or canceled them. Chase UR points are worth 2.25, 4.5 or 7.5 cents/$ when combined with Sapphire Reserve for travel, and you can book any flight on any major airline.
Just keep in mind that if you book through the chase portal and you need to cancel your flight the rebooking process is complicated and you may lose some value. Which means that if there is a chance you may need to cancel or change your flight, it is better to book directly with the airline.
Edit: also wanted to add that one benefit of buying tickets through chase portal is that you still get airline miles and status miles this way. That doesn’t occur if you book with just airline miles. This adds just a little more value to chase points.
Last edited by EnjoyIt on Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
What was the route? How many layovers?OnceARunner wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 12:21 pm Yes, luckily just before the latest devaluation last/this week.
Flew on United from US to Europe in business class round trip using 140,000 points person. Was a great trip. The points were transferred from a Chase card.
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
That is true on the other hand if you value refundability then points tickets may be more valuable. Very few low to moderate cash fares are fully refundable whereas many points tickets are refundable for no or nominal fee. One of the strengths of points tickets is their optionality and the ability to book speculatively. This was great during covid where I booked some pretty epic trips that I would never have done on cash because I could cancel the award booking up to the last minute. Even post covid it is great to be able to book serval flights home for my son before xmas from college and then once he knows his test schedule about a month out, cancel the ones we don't need.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
As of this year you do actually accrue status miles (PQP) when you use airline miles to book flights.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
Really????
That’s huge. One of the reasons I would use miles on others instead of myself is I would rather earn the status. Is that just United or is it also with other airlines?
It’s so hard to keep up with all the changes. You really need to be into the game to keep up and get best value for miles. It’s not easy.
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
I learned that the hard way when I canceled an AA flight I purchased with Chase miles. The best I could get for it was the value of the points at one point per dollar for another DOMESTIC flight within 12 months that had to be on AA.EnjoyIt wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:46 amI tend to do and think the same.protagonist wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 11:44 am I find Chase UR points to usually be better than airline miles programs, when combining Freedom cards with a Sapphire card. I have downgraded all my old airline cards to free cards to keep my points, or canceled them. Chase UR points are worth 2.25, 4.5 or 7.5 cents/$ when combined with Sapphire Reserve for travel, and you can book any flight on any major airline.
Just keep in mind that if you book through the chase portal and you need to cancel your flight the rebooking process is complicated and you may lose some value. Which means that if there is a chance you may need to cancel or change your flight, it is better to book directly with the airline.
That said, the time wasted scouring the various airline sites for the best possible deal and being pigeonholed into using just those airlines and having to fly at just those times that they offer flights with miles is not worth it to me anymore...especially because the best airline miles deals often don't compare favorably with what you can do with UR points. Plus the hassle of keeping track of multiple cards...I had 17 at one point in the past...and restrictions on churning. I've been sitting on a couple hundred thousand unused AA miles for years, waiting for a time when using them makes sense.
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
UA earnings max out at 75k per ticket - given current premium class fares, might be same price to book two O/W tickets and avoid the limit.alfaspider wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 11:15 am I fly internationally for work about 4-5 times a year. Company policy allows business class, which recently had run about $10k for my destinations. This translates to about 80k miles per trip (in part because I have platinum 1k status which adds a multiplier for miles).
If you are just flying coach domestic and don’t have status, you’d dozens of flights to earn the same. It’s a different game.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
Only United as far as I know. There are restrictions of course... you now earn PQF and PQP (the latter at a rate of 1 per 100 miles redeemed) and only on United-operated flights. So not on partner redemptions and I would doubt on partner miles for United-operated flights.EnjoyIt wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:51 amReally????
That’s huge. One of the reasons I would use miles on others instead of myself is I would rather earn the status. Is that just United or is it also with other airlines?
It’s so hard to keep up with all the changes. You really need to be into the game to keep up and get best value for miles. It’s not easy.
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
1 stop.EnjoyIt wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:48 amWhat was the route? How many layovers?OnceARunner wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 12:21 pm Yes, luckily just before the latest devaluation last/this week.
Flew on United from US to Europe in business class round trip using 140,000 points person. Was a great trip. The points were transferred from a Chase card.
ATL-FRA-ATH
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
Just used my UA miles (and UR points converted to UA miles) to book two J tickets to Dubai. Another set of J tickets from Venice to Munich, and a third set of J tickets from Munich to USA.
How is this done? Put everything on credits cards that earn UR points (except when I need to use my Amex), then seek out the best departure cities. Finally, keep rechecking the pricing. This year, I halved the mileage needed for a Japan trip by finding late options on ANA, so I cancelled my UA flights.
A bit of a game to do this, but great payoff. Our money is not tied up on tickets and we can cancel for any reason free of charge.
How is this done? Put everything on credits cards that earn UR points (except when I need to use my Amex), then seek out the best departure cities. Finally, keep rechecking the pricing. This year, I halved the mileage needed for a Japan trip by finding late options on ANA, so I cancelled my UA flights.
A bit of a game to do this, but great payoff. Our money is not tied up on tickets and we can cancel for any reason free of charge.
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
Our recent experience was good, but offers vary widely. Got return tickets on UA direct to London and Barcelona for less than 60k each while fares were listed from >$1500.
And then paid a small cash amount for an upgrade for the legroom we wanted.
The same seats using just miles were something like an additional 100k miles.
And then paid a small cash amount for an upgrade for the legroom we wanted.
The same seats using just miles were something like an additional 100k miles.
Last edited by TheDogFather on Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
I agree. Also, AA flights booked economy with miles are eligible for complementary upgrades based on status. So for example, an Exec Platinum or CK who booked with miles will get free upgrades ahead of lower status folks who paid for their ticket with dollars.
However - DFW is a tough place to get upgraded. Many high status AA fliers.
All of this only really matters if you fly a lot.
However - DFW is a tough place to get upgraded. Many high status AA fliers.
All of this only really matters if you fly a lot.
michaelscott wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 12:40 pm I find this thread really surprising.
American points are incredibly valuable. I have taken three round trips to Europe on points in the last 18 months for 60,000 points each (total, round trip). Checking various dates, similar rates are available right now from my hub (DFW). Notably, this is roughly the sign up bonus for one of the AA cards!
Southwest points essentially have a cash value, so although there aren’t as many “sweet spot” redemptions, it’s easy to get good value. Particularly with the Companion Pass.
Finally, outside airfare, Hyatt, Marriott, and IHG points can all be worth accumulating.
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
Just chatted with my wife about the United devaluation of miles since she travels to Japan close to once a year now to visit family. She did see the jump, and also noticed that United no longer posts saver awards flights as far in advance as they used to. Fortunately for us, we are pretty flexible on when she can travel to & from Japan, and of course, no need to worry about hotel reservations since she stays with her folks or her sister. Still, this is yet another kick in the pants for sure. Will definitely run the new math this summer on whether to shift our spend over to either a Chase UR or even a cashback card.
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
johnegonpdx wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:41 pm Just chatted with my wife about the United devaluation of miles since she travels to Japan close to once a year now to visit family. She did see the jump, and also noticed that United no longer posts saver awards flights as far in advance as they used to. Fortunately for us, we are pretty flexible on when she can travel to & from Japan, and of course, no need to worry about hotel reservations since she stays with her folks or her sister. Still, this is yet another kick in the pants for sure. Will definitely run the new math this summer on whether to shift our spend over to either a Chase UR or even a cashback card.
Does United have any network partners that might work better for Japan?
We use Amex (which are only used with partner airlines, obviously) and AA. ALL of our travel with AAdvantage awards have been on partner airlines. Not only are there more good choices, with better in-air accommodations, but at least in the past, the number of points needed for the partner airline is less than the same trip on American.
However, I'm not at all familiar with the United program.
RM
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
UA has Star Alliance flights as well, but we rarely use them because of our destination and location.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:58 pmjohnegonpdx wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:41 pm Just chatted with my wife about the United devaluation of miles since she travels to Japan close to once a year now to visit family. She did see the jump, and also noticed that United no longer posts saver awards flights as far in advance as they used to. Fortunately for us, we are pretty flexible on when she can travel to & from Japan, and of course, no need to worry about hotel reservations since she stays with her folks or her sister. Still, this is yet another kick in the pants for sure. Will definitely run the new math this summer on whether to shift our spend over to either a Chase UR or even a cashback card.
Does United have any network partners that might work better for Japan?
We use Amex (which are only used with partner airlines, obviously) and AA. ALL of our travel with AAdvantage awards have been on partner airlines. Not only are there more good choices, with better in-air accommodations, but at least in the past, the number of points needed for the partner airline is less than the same trip on American.
However, I'm not at all familiar with the United program.
RM
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
The only points I find value in are Ultimate Rewards points (Chase). With the Sapphire Reserve card I never get less than 2.25 c./dollar, often 4.5c/dollar and sometimes up to 7.5c/dollar...and even more important, I can choose almost any flight I want on most airlines, rather than having to fly when an airline offers a good deal, which is often on an inconvenient flight. I book almost all my flights with UR points.
I still have a fair number of airline points- American, United, Delta, BA- from those halcyon days of yore when churning for promo deals was easy and miles were more valuable. But I ceased paying annual fees on all those cards years ago and for the most part my miles just sit there because their offerings are not good enough. Once in awhile I will book a flight with miles instead of UR points but not often. I did use about 5500 AA points this week to upgrade a seat on a flight because I have about 200K AA points sitting there unused.
Last edited by protagonist on Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
Back when I used to fly a lot I collected points, but I never went out of my way to get them. I ended up with a whole lot on Continental. When they merged with United all of a sudden they were worth about half.
My philosophy on these points is collect them if you are flying, but don't count on them. If you get them, use them soon because they do not hold value.
For credit card, I get cash back every month and nothing to do with airlnes.
My philosophy on these points is collect them if you are flying, but don't count on them. If you get them, use them soon because they do not hold value.
For credit card, I get cash back every month and nothing to do with airlnes.
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
136k avios points gets 2 people from the East coast(and Chi) to Europe in business class round trip off season, 200k points peak. Those down on points are not trying hard enough. There are 3 cards giving 75-100k sign up avios points. Churn those x 2 people and points galore. Using airline points to travel certainly isn't for people who want to book only a few months ahead.
Last edited by theplayer11 on Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
Bold emphasis above is mine.protagonist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:02 amThe only points I find value in are Ultimate Rewards points (Chase). With the Sapphire Reserve card I never get less than 2.25 c./point, often 4.5c/point and sometimes up to 7.5c/point...and even more important, I can choose almost any flight I want on most airlines, rather than having to fly when an airline offers a good deal, which is often on an inconvenient flight. I book almost all my flights with UR points.
I still have a fair number of airline points- American, United, Delta, BA- from those halcyon days of yore when churning for promo deals was easy and miles were more valuable. But I ceased paying annual fees on all those cards years ago and for the most part my miles just sit there because their offerings are not good enough. Once in awhile I will book a flight with miles instead of UR points but not often. I did use about 5500 AA points this week to upgrade a seat on a flight because I have about 200K AA points sitting there unused.
Do you mean 2.25 cents per dollar spent up to 7.5 cents per dollar spent or do you really mean 7.5 cents per point?
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
7.5 per point. An example would be business class to Madrid in Dec would cost me $5,400 round trip..or 68k pts, thats 7.9(little less because I would pay $250 in taxes for the flight)EnjoyIt wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:04 amBold emphasis above is mine.protagonist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:02 amThe only points I find value in are Ultimate Rewards points (Chase). With the Sapphire Reserve card I never get less than 2.25 c./point, often 4.5c/point and sometimes up to 7.5c/point...and even more important, I can choose almost any flight I want on most airlines, rather than having to fly when an airline offers a good deal, which is often on an inconvenient flight. I book almost all my flights with UR points.
I still have a fair number of airline points- American, United, Delta, BA- from those halcyon days of yore when churning for promo deals was easy and miles were more valuable. But I ceased paying annual fees on all those cards years ago and for the most part my miles just sit there because their offerings are not good enough. Once in awhile I will book a flight with miles instead of UR points but not often. I did use about 5500 AA points this week to upgrade a seat on a flight because I have about 200K AA points sitting there unused.
Do you mean 2.25 cents per dollar spent up to 7.5 cents per dollar spent or do you really mean 7.5 cents per point?
Transfers to Hyatt can provide great value as well. That's why some of us who like to travel(especially off season) can't fathom cash back cards, even at 2%.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
I accumulate points on Southwest, Marriott as well as can use my Chase Ultimate Rewards points with other carriers & hotels. It saves me at least a couple of thousand dollars annually in free hotel rooms, flights and rental cars. IMO it is worth it, and not difficult to do.
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
DEFINITELY per dollar spent.EnjoyIt wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:04 amBold emphasis above is mine.protagonist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:02 amThe only points I find value in are Ultimate Rewards points (Chase). With the Sapphire Reserve card I never get less than 2.25 c./point, often 4.5c/point and sometimes up to 7.5c/point...and even more important, I can choose almost any flight I want on most airlines, rather than having to fly when an airline offers a good deal, which is often on an inconvenient flight. I book almost all my flights with UR points.
I still have a fair number of airline points- American, United, Delta, BA- from those halcyon days of yore when churning for promo deals was easy and miles were more valuable. But I ceased paying annual fees on all those cards years ago and for the most part my miles just sit there because their offerings are not good enough. Once in awhile I will book a flight with miles instead of UR points but not often. I did use about 5500 AA points this week to upgrade a seat on a flight because I have about 200K AA points sitting there unused.
Do you mean 2.25 cents per dollar spent up to 7.5 cents per dollar spent or do you really mean 7.5 cents per point?
Sorry....
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
protagonist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:10 pmDEFINITELY per dollar spent.EnjoyIt wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:04 amBold emphasis above is mine.protagonist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:02 amThe only points I find value in are Ultimate Rewards points (Chase). With the Sapphire Reserve card I never get less than 2.25 c./point, often 4.5c/point and sometimes up to 7.5c/point...and even more important, I can choose almost any flight I want on most airlines, rather than having to fly when an airline offers a good deal, which is often on an inconvenient flight. I book almost all my flights with UR points.
I still have a fair number of airline points- American, United, Delta, BA- from those halcyon days of yore when churning for promo deals was easy and miles were more valuable. But I ceased paying annual fees on all those cards years ago and for the most part my miles just sit there because their offerings are not good enough. Once in awhile I will book a flight with miles instead of UR points but not often. I did use about 5500 AA points this week to upgrade a seat on a flight because I have about 200K AA points sitting there unused.
Do you mean 2.25 cents per dollar spent up to 7.5 cents per dollar spent or do you really mean 7.5 cents per point?
Sorry. about the typo...That's what happens when I try thinking right after waking up on a Sunday morning....
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
I used to use American Airlines points for BA flights to the UK. But BA disappointed me so often that I stopped using them, and the pandemic reduced the travel considerably, so I started using cash-back cards. Now I'm back to accumulating miles, but with a United card and online shopping with United Mileage Plus.
Jack shall have Jill, nought shall go ill; the man shall have his mare again, and all shall be well.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
You can buy most airlines points for under $0.015/pt on sale. Hyatt will sell points on sale for $0.0168 each a few times a year. I would posit that the most points are worth is the amount you can buy them for.theplayer11 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:51 am7.5 per point. An example would be business class to Madrid in Dec would cost me $5,400 round trip..or 68k pts, thats 7.9(little less because I would pay $250 in taxes for the flight)EnjoyIt wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:04 amBold emphasis above is mine.protagonist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:02 amThe only points I find value in are Ultimate Rewards points (Chase). With the Sapphire Reserve card I never get less than 2.25 c./point, often 4.5c/point and sometimes up to 7.5c/point...and even more important, I can choose almost any flight I want on most airlines, rather than having to fly when an airline offers a good deal, which is often on an inconvenient flight. I book almost all my flights with UR points.
I still have a fair number of airline points- American, United, Delta, BA- from those halcyon days of yore when churning for promo deals was easy and miles were more valuable. But I ceased paying annual fees on all those cards years ago and for the most part my miles just sit there because their offerings are not good enough. Once in awhile I will book a flight with miles instead of UR points but not often. I did use about 5500 AA points this week to upgrade a seat on a flight because I have about 200K AA points sitting there unused.
Do you mean 2.25 cents per dollar spent up to 7.5 cents per dollar spent or do you really mean 7.5 cents per point?
Transfers to Hyatt can provide great value as well. That's why some of us who like to travel(especially off season) can't fathom cash back cards, even at 2%.
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
I'm not following you. Can you explain? I just showed an example where I got close to 8 cents/point. Some use the argument that if you wouldn't have purchased business class tickets to begin with, then the points were not really worth that much. I would say, if not for points, we wouldn't be traveling as much because we wouldn't travel to Europe in economy, so easily accumulating points through sign up bonuses has made us travel more, in business class, lounge access before departure and layovers, and hotels we would normally never spend the money on.Jags4186 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:29 pmYou can buy most airlines points for under $0.015/pt on sale. Hyatt will sell points on sale for $0.0168 each a few times a year. I would posit that the most points are worth is the amount you can buy them for.theplayer11 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:51 am7.5 per point. An example would be business class to Madrid in Dec would cost me $5,400 round trip..or 68k pts, thats 7.9(little less because I would pay $250 in taxes for the flight)EnjoyIt wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:04 amBold emphasis above is mine.protagonist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:02 amThe only points I find value in are Ultimate Rewards points (Chase). With the Sapphire Reserve card I never get less than 2.25 c./point, often 4.5c/point and sometimes up to 7.5c/point...and even more important, I can choose almost any flight I want on most airlines, rather than having to fly when an airline offers a good deal, which is often on an inconvenient flight. I book almost all my flights with UR points.
I still have a fair number of airline points- American, United, Delta, BA- from those halcyon days of yore when churning for promo deals was easy and miles were more valuable. But I ceased paying annual fees on all those cards years ago and for the most part my miles just sit there because their offerings are not good enough. Once in awhile I will book a flight with miles instead of UR points but not often. I did use about 5500 AA points this week to upgrade a seat on a flight because I have about 200K AA points sitting there unused.
Do you mean 2.25 cents per dollar spent up to 7.5 cents per dollar spent or do you really mean 7.5 cents per point?
Transfers to Hyatt can provide great value as well. That's why some of us who like to travel(especially off season) can't fathom cash back cards, even at 2%.
I get it, most don't do it, either because they don't understand, lack the motivation to learn, or maybe rich enough that they can pay for business class and 5 star hotels without the need of points. Some say it's too complicated, but that just tells me they don't want to put the time in to learn.....like anything else.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
A few days ago, I booked a round trip ticket from JFK to Melbourne (with a single stop in Auckland) through Qantas. It’s cost 110k points + $300 in fees. Flight leaves next week and will last for 1 month. I did have to be completely flexible on the start and end dates, as most flights were 300k+ points one way.
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
I don't understand OP's complaint. I just went into the United website and found flights where the points cost for an economy ticket was lower than it was ten years ago.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
You said you don’t understand why someone would earn cash back. Well, cash is a transferable currency that can be turned into any type of point, often at a better rate than you can earn with a points earning card.theplayer11 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:40 pmI'm not following you. Can you explain? I just showed an example where I got close to 8 cents/point. Some use the argument that if you wouldn't have purchased business class tickets to begin with, then the points were not really worth that much. I would say, if not for points, we wouldn't be traveling as much because we wouldn't travel to Europe in economy, so easily accumulating points through sign up bonuses has made us travel more, in business class, lounge access before departure and layovers, and hotels we would normally never spend the money on.Jags4186 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:29 pmYou can buy most airlines points for under $0.015/pt on sale. Hyatt will sell points on sale for $0.0168 each a few times a year. I would posit that the most points are worth is the amount you can buy them for.theplayer11 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:51 am7.5 per point. An example would be business class to Madrid in Dec would cost me $5,400 round trip..or 68k pts, thats 7.9(little less because I would pay $250 in taxes for the flight)EnjoyIt wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:04 amBold emphasis above is mine.protagonist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:02 am
The only points I find value in are Ultimate Rewards points (Chase). With the Sapphire Reserve card I never get less than 2.25 c./point, often 4.5c/point and sometimes up to 7.5c/point...and even more important, I can choose almost any flight I want on most airlines, rather than having to fly when an airline offers a good deal, which is often on an inconvenient flight. I book almost all my flights with UR points.
I still have a fair number of airline points- American, United, Delta, BA- from those halcyon days of yore when churning for promo deals was easy and miles were more valuable. But I ceased paying annual fees on all those cards years ago and for the most part my miles just sit there because their offerings are not good enough. Once in awhile I will book a flight with miles instead of UR points but not often. I did use about 5500 AA points this week to upgrade a seat on a flight because I have about 200K AA points sitting there unused.
Do you mean 2.25 cents per dollar spent up to 7.5 cents per dollar spent or do you really mean 7.5 cents per point?
Transfers to Hyatt can provide great value as well. That's why some of us who like to travel(especially off season) can't fathom cash back cards, even at 2%.
I get it, most don't do it, either because they don't understand, lack the motivation to learn, or maybe rich enough that they can pay for business class and 5 star hotels without the need of points. Some say it's too complicated, but that just tells me they don't want to put the time in to learn.....like anything else.
Sure, you can get a great redemption with points, so can cash. While you can’t replicate the big signup bonuses with cash, you can typically beat the earn rate with cash on regular spend.
Let me put it this way. If you need 68k points for a $5400 flight, and I can buy 68k points for $870, are the points really worth 8 cents each?
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
It depends on your location. We live on the Pacific coast and have Alaska points. Their program is superb as far as mileage programs ago and if your travel tend to be North-South along the Pacific coast as ours is they work nicely. I never had the slightest problem booking points travel on Alaskan. It is very easy. And they go where we want to go.beardsicles wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 10:22 am Delta points are (arguably) the only ones still worth anything.
We use Alaska points to travel between Portland and Costa Rica as well as Portland and Alaska and occasionally for trips to the east coast as well. Never any difficulty.
We also sometimes use them for travel to Chile where my wife is from on Alaska partners American or Lan-Chile.
That said, while I have an Alaskan Airlines points card through Bank of America, I mostly use my Costco VISA through Citi for the cash back instead of points. As I'd rather have the cash than the points.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
I don't follow this. You claim to book almost any flight on most airlines. That implies you are using the Chase Travel Portal to book your flights.protagonist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:02 amThe only points I find value in are Ultimate Rewards points (Chase). With the Sapphire Reserve card I never get less than 2.25 c./dollar, often 4.5c/dollar and sometimes up to 7.5c/dollar...and even more important, I can choose almost any flight I want on most airlines, rather than having to fly when an airline offers a good deal, which is often on an inconvenient flight. I book almost all my flights with UR points.
I still have a fair number of airline points- American, United, Delta, BA- from those halcyon days of yore when churning for promo deals was easy and miles were more valuable. But I ceased paying annual fees on all those cards years ago and for the most part my miles just sit there because their offerings are not good enough. Once in awhile I will book a flight with miles instead of UR points but not often. I did use about 5500 AA points this week to upgrade a seat on a flight because I have about 200K AA points sitting there unused.
If so, how are you getting more than 1.5 cent per UR point? How did you get J class RT for 68K?? How can you get 7.5 cents per point using the portal?
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
He isn’t saying that. He’s saying up to $0.075/dollar which means if he earns 5x on his Freedom he gets to redeem for $0.015 X 5 = $0.075 via his Sapphire Reserve.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
I think what you are missing is he said 7.5 cents per dollar (spent presumably) not per point. I am assuming they earning URs at some multiple and then getting 1.5 cents of value per point. For example a couple of Chase Ink cards earn 5x UR points at office stores. So if you are getting 1.5 cents per UR points your return on spend would be 5 UR points x 1.5 cents = 7.5 cents. You can regularly buy Visa/MCs at office store fee free (I bought $3200 today alone) which you can then use for spend elsewhere or MS if you want to scale.Prokofiev wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:27 pmI don't follow this. You claim to book almost any flight on most airlines. That implies you are using the Chase Travel Portal to book your flights.protagonist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:02 amThe only points I find value in are Ultimate Rewards points (Chase). With the Sapphire Reserve card I never get less than 2.25 c./dollar, often 4.5c/dollar and sometimes up to 7.5c/dollar...and even more important, I can choose almost any flight I want on most airlines, rather than having to fly when an airline offers a good deal, which is often on an inconvenient flight. I book almost all my flights with UR points.
I still have a fair number of airline points- American, United, Delta, BA- from those halcyon days of yore when churning for promo deals was easy and miles were more valuable. But I ceased paying annual fees on all those cards years ago and for the most part my miles just sit there because their offerings are not good enough. Once in awhile I will book a flight with miles instead of UR points but not often. I did use about 5500 AA points this week to upgrade a seat on a flight because I have about 200K AA points sitting there unused.
If so, how are you getting more than 1.5 cent per UR point? How did you get J class RT for 68K?? How can you get 7.5 cents per point using the portal?
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
It was me who posted 68k pts for J class RT. That is through Iberia, using avios. They accept Chase point transfers....but the best way is through credit card sign up bonuses. There are 3 different cards earning avios, IB, Aer Lingus, BA. Wife and I churn all 3 every 2 years.Prokofiev wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:27 pmI don't follow this. You claim to book almost any flight on most airlines. That implies you are using the Chase Travel Portal to book your flights.protagonist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:02 amThe only points I find value in are Ultimate Rewards points (Chase). With the Sapphire Reserve card I never get less than 2.25 c./dollar, often 4.5c/dollar and sometimes up to 7.5c/dollar...and even more important, I can choose almost any flight I want on most airlines, rather than having to fly when an airline offers a good deal, which is often on an inconvenient flight. I book almost all my flights with UR points.
I still have a fair number of airline points- American, United, Delta, BA- from those halcyon days of yore when churning for promo deals was easy and miles were more valuable. But I ceased paying annual fees on all those cards years ago and for the most part my miles just sit there because their offerings are not good enough. Once in awhile I will book a flight with miles instead of UR points but not often. I did use about 5500 AA points this week to upgrade a seat on a flight because I have about 200K AA points sitting there unused.
If so, how are you getting more than 1.5 cent per UR point? How did you get J class RT for 68K?? How can you get 7.5 cents per point using the portal?
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
OK. That makes sense. With all the embedded quotes I thought it was the same person making both claims.theplayer11 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:45 pmIt was me who posted 68k pts for J class RT. That is through Iberia, using avios. They accept Chase point transfers....but the best way is through credit card sign up bonuses. There are 3 different cards earning avios, IB, Aer Lingus, BA. Wife and I churn all 3 every 2 years.Prokofiev wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:27 pmI don't follow this. You claim to book almost any flight on most airlines. That implies you are using the Chase Travel Portal to book your flights.protagonist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:02 amThe only points I find value in are Ultimate Rewards points (Chase). With the Sapphire Reserve card I never get less than 2.25 c./dollar, often 4.5c/dollar and sometimes up to 7.5c/dollar...and even more important, I can choose almost any flight I want on most airlines, rather than having to fly when an airline offers a good deal, which is often on an inconvenient flight. I book almost all my flights with UR points.
I still have a fair number of airline points- American, United, Delta, BA- from those halcyon days of yore when churning for promo deals was easy and miles were more valuable. But I ceased paying annual fees on all those cards years ago and for the most part my miles just sit there because their offerings are not good enough. Once in awhile I will book a flight with miles instead of UR points but not often. I did use about 5500 AA points this week to upgrade a seat on a flight because I have about 200K AA points sitting there unused.
If so, how are you getting more than 1.5 cent per UR point? How did you get J class RT for 68K?? How can you get 7.5 cents per point using the portal?
I just booked Prem Econ RT on Iberia for 51k, so 68k for J in Dec certainly seems possible. But not very likely if using United miles now, per the OP.
I used to transfer all my UR points to United every month, as it was my go-to airline for reasonable premium cabin flights. NOT any more after this
latest devaluation. I now keep all UR points as UR points and transfer them to Hyatt or possibly BA/Iberia as needed. I'm presently getting 7 avios per $ on all groceries thru July by using the BA credit card.
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
OK, I get what he was saying. It's relatively easy to get 3-5% value per dollar spent and then use it at the portal.THY4373 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:41 pmI think what you are missing is he said 7.5 cents per dollar (spent presumably) not per point. I am assuming they earning URs at some multiple and then getting 1.5 cents of value per point. For example a couple of Chase Ink cards earn 5x UR points at office stores. So if you are getting 1.5 cents per UR points your return on spend would be 5 UR points x 1.5 cents = 7.5 cents. You can regularly buy Visa/MCs at office store fee free (I bought $3200 today alone) which you can then use for spend elsewhere or MS if you want to scale.Prokofiev wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:27 pmI don't follow this. You claim to book almost any flight on most airlines. That implies you are using the Chase Travel Portal to book your flights.protagonist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:02 amThe only points I find value in are Ultimate Rewards points (Chase). With the Sapphire Reserve card I never get less than 2.25 c./dollar, often 4.5c/dollar and sometimes up to 7.5c/dollar...and even more important, I can choose almost any flight I want on most airlines, rather than having to fly when an airline offers a good deal, which is often on an inconvenient flight. I book almost all my flights with UR points.
I still have a fair number of airline points- American, United, Delta, BA- from those halcyon days of yore when churning for promo deals was easy and miles were more valuable. But I ceased paying annual fees on all those cards years ago and for the most part my miles just sit there because their offerings are not good enough. Once in awhile I will book a flight with miles instead of UR points but not often. I did use about 5500 AA points this week to upgrade a seat on a flight because I have about 200K AA points sitting there unused.
If so, how are you getting more than 1.5 cent per UR point? How did you get J class RT for 68K?? How can you get 7.5 cents per point using the portal?
"You can regularly buy Visa/MCs at office store fee free (I bought $3200 today alone) which you can then use for spend elsewhere or MS if you want to scale"
Are you talking about gift cards here?? And you can use the gift card to pay-off Visa or Master card accounts, fee free? What office store does this?
And will the Ink card actually give you 5X for gift card purchases? Our version of Ink (Preferred) unfortunately doesn't offer a bonus for office stores.
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
This isn't really worth 7.5 cents per point for you unless you would have actually paid $5400 for the ticket had you been paying cash. (This principle is not restricted to airline points. When you use a $1 coupon to buy an item for $4 and you would otherwise have bought a different brand for $3.25, the coupon only saved you 25 cents.) More likely, if you couldn't get a frequent-flyer ticket, you would have either flown economy (so that the value is the economy fare plus the value to you of flying business class instead), or gotten an upgrade to business class.theplayer11 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:51 am7.5 per point. An example would be business class to Madrid in Dec would cost me $5,400 round trip..or 68k pts, thats 7.9(little less because I would pay $250 in taxes for the flight)
Transfers to Hyatt can provide great value as well. That's why some of us who like to travel(especially off season) can't fathom cash back cards, even at 2%.
This often deflates the value of my United miles somewhat as well. When I use United miles, I usually have to fly out of Dulles Airport, not BWI Thurgood Marshall Airport which is closer to my home. So for me, using United miles adds the cost of extra time getting to and from the airport; I wouldn't buy a $400 ticket out of Dulles if I could fly for $450 out of BWI Marshall.
But I can still get a value of 1.5 cents per point on United flying domestically; as a United cardholder, I have access to more frequent-flyer seats.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
I’ve never gotten a credit card previously for miles, but recently got the American Aviator for 60k miles. We just booked our direct, non stop flights on American last night for free… almost seems too good to be true!
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Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
You have to also own the freedom cards.Prokofiev wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:27 pmI don't follow this. You claim to book almost any flight on most airlines. That implies you are using the Chase Travel Portal to book your flights.protagonist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:02 amThe only points I find value in are Ultimate Rewards points (Chase). With the Sapphire Reserve card I never get less than 2.25 c./dollar, often 4.5c/dollar and sometimes up to 7.5c/dollar...and even more important, I can choose almost any flight I want on most airlines, rather than having to fly when an airline offers a good deal, which is often on an inconvenient flight. I book almost all my flights with UR points.
I still have a fair number of airline points- American, United, Delta, BA- from those halcyon days of yore when churning for promo deals was easy and miles were more valuable. But I ceased paying annual fees on all those cards years ago and for the most part my miles just sit there because their offerings are not good enough. Once in awhile I will book a flight with miles instead of UR points but not often. I did use about 5500 AA points this week to upgrade a seat on a flight because I have about 200K AA points sitting there unused.
If so, how are you getting more than 1.5 cent per UR point? How did you get J class RT for 68K?? How can you get 7.5 cents per point using the portal?
F. Unl. gets 1.5% on everything...then transfer pts to CSR and get 1.5x1.5= 2.25% on travel
Freedom cards get 3% on travel, dining. Transfer to CSR and get 3 x 1.5 = 4.5% on travel
Freedom and Freedom Flex get 5% on category spending. Transfer to CSR and get 5 x 1.5 = 7.5% on travel
The Freedom cards are all free to own- no annual fee.
Re: How does anyone fly on points anymore? (United especially)
I just don't get why you and others keep on repeating this. It is like saying buying a Tesla isn't worth it unless you are going to use it. For people who get 7.5 cents per point, they do use it!grabiner wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 5:32 pmThis isn't really worth 7.5 cents per point for you unless you would have actually paid $5400 for the ticket had you been paying cash.theplayer11 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:51 am7.5 per point. An example would be business class to Madrid in Dec would cost me $5,400 round trip..or 68k pts, thats 7.9(little less because I would pay $250 in taxes for the flight)
Transfers to Hyatt can provide great value as well. That's why some of us who like to travel(especially off season) can't fathom cash back cards, even at 2%.