Accounts keep switching to paperless
Accounts keep switching to paperless
My mom's credit card and bank accounts keeps switching to paperless. The problem is when that happens, she can't figure out how to pay the bills because there is no envelope to mail the check. My thought is that the banks and credit card display a popup asking the user to change to paperless. I was wondering if there is a good solution other than autopay, which she doesn't want to do.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
I am 74.
Use electronic checks.
Or, go online and pay with credit card or direct withdrawal.
Use electronic checks.
Or, go online and pay with credit card or direct withdrawal.
Old fart who does three index stock funds, baby.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
She may be logging in and they incessantly pop up "go paperless now" screens. It would be easy to click ok if you aren't paying attention or sure what you are clicking.gavinsiu wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:11 pm My mom's credit card and bank accounts keeps switching to paperless. The problem is when that happens, she can't figure out how to pay the bills because there is no envelope to mail the check. My thought is that the banks and credit card display a popup asking the user to change to paperless. I was wondering if there is a good solution other than autopay, which she doesn't want to do.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
She's 80 and has trouble turning on the computer because she can't remember where the on switch is. I have tried for over 2 decades to get her more online, but have given up. I am just trying to work around her lack of tech.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Yes, this might be what is happening. I have asked her in the past to stop clicking on popups without reading. I can't see what she is doing. I might just turn on popup blocker for the bank to see if that allevates the issues.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
My mother is almost 90. I screenshare with her at least once a week. She won't do too much on any financial sites without me being there. She will online shop sometimes. She has a multi-function printer and if she gets US Mail I want to see, I have her load it into the scanner and look at if I can't wait until I visit. I signed her up for USPS Informed Deliver and I monitor her email so I can see what US Mail she gets. She does alright for the most part, but it is easier to prevent problems than clean them up.
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Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Stop using a credit card, that banks online system or both.
I know it’s harsh, and I have a 75 y/o mom who still lives in the 1990s so I know the struggle.
My mom and I had this conversation recently. She was upset over not understanding something, I basically said if you can’t manage a banks online banking you can use that bank. Banks don’t want to print piles of paper, send you snail mail each month, for you to send a paper check back to them via snail mail. Worse, when you have a question, or don’t understand something, they don’t want you walking into a physical building with some nice person just waiting behind the counter to spend 35 minutes with you. They don’t care how long you’ve used their bank, and unless you have disgusting amounts money they don’t care how much you with them.
Things change, banking has really changed, and for some it hard to keep up whereas for others it isn’t. This isn’t the same world we lived in 10, 20, 30, 50 years ago. Just because something was one way at one point, there should not be any expectation it should be that way today.
In your case situation, mom needs to accommodate the bank or find a different bank. Stay offline with them if you don’t want pop-ups constantly asking people to review offers or switch the paperless billing. If they bank doesn’t want to offer paper statements and leave it that way move on to another bank…I’m sure there is one somewhere, but it might not be free.
I know it’s harsh, and I have a 75 y/o mom who still lives in the 1990s so I know the struggle.
My mom and I had this conversation recently. She was upset over not understanding something, I basically said if you can’t manage a banks online banking you can use that bank. Banks don’t want to print piles of paper, send you snail mail each month, for you to send a paper check back to them via snail mail. Worse, when you have a question, or don’t understand something, they don’t want you walking into a physical building with some nice person just waiting behind the counter to spend 35 minutes with you. They don’t care how long you’ve used their bank, and unless you have disgusting amounts money they don’t care how much you with them.
Things change, banking has really changed, and for some it hard to keep up whereas for others it isn’t. This isn’t the same world we lived in 10, 20, 30, 50 years ago. Just because something was one way at one point, there should not be any expectation it should be that way today.
In your case situation, mom needs to accommodate the bank or find a different bank. Stay offline with them if you don’t want pop-ups constantly asking people to review offers or switch the paperless billing. If they bank doesn’t want to offer paper statements and leave it that way move on to another bank…I’m sure there is one somewhere, but it might not be free.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Maybe it's cultural, but my mom tend to think that her kids should accomodate her. As a result, it's pretty hard to change her mind on stuff. She wants to see her accounts and networth everyday for some reason. I am just trying to figure out how to let her do her thing to keep her from nickle and diming me on pointless tasks.DoubleComma wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:05 pm Stop using a credit card, that banks online system or both.
I know it’s harsh, and I have a 75 y/o mom who still lives in the 1990s so I know the struggle.
My mom and I had this conversation recently. She was upset over not understanding something, I basically said if you can’t manage a banks online banking you can use that bank. Banks don’t want to print piles of paper, send you snail mail each month, for you to send a paper check back to them via snail mail. Worse, when you have a question, or don’t understand something, they don’t want you walking into a physical building with some nice person just waiting behind the counter to spend 35 minutes with you. They don’t care how long you’ve used their bank, and unless you have disgusting amounts money they don’t care how much you with them.
Things change, banking has really changed, and for some it hard to keep up whereas for others it isn’t. This isn’t the same world we lived in 10, 20, 30, 50 years ago. Just because something was one way at one point, there should not be any expectation it should be that way today.
In your case situation, mom needs to accommodate the bank or find a different bank. Stay offline with them if you don’t want pop-ups constantly asking people to review offers or switch the paperless billing. If they bank doesn’t want to offer paper statements and leave it that way move on to another bank…I’m sure there is one somewhere, but it might not be free.
I have notice that banks around me, especially the large chains are changing. My bank chase for example have closed tons of branches or convert them to cashless. They also got rid of the safety deposit boxes. I am not sure that this is actually a good idea business-wise. For someone like me who might be a bit younger and more tech savvy, I barely visit a bank and have the bulk of cash in higher yielding internet banks. The customer who visit the bank tend to be older and probalby has more cash. I feel that making the branches into empty shell will just accelerates their decline. These changes are less dramatic on local community banks.In my mom's case, her bank hasn't change quite as much. They still have tellers. It could be that Wells Fargo hasn't gutted their branches or it's because her bank is sitting next to a really large retirement community.
The paperless issue appears to be with Bank of America. I have planted the idea that she should switch to a different vendor because they keep disrespecting her choice to go with paper. I will probably spend time without using screenshare to help her pay her bill online, instead of just doing it for her. She will get really frustrated because it would take her 1 minute to write a check and put it into the envelope while paying online will probably take an hour because she still hasn't figure out that you have click in the field to type in values. If the paperless becomes an issue again, hopefully the annoying experience will cause her to switch. The chief reason she wants the card is because she gets award points on it, but I feel that the award is peanuts and not even worth collecting.
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Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Gavinsiu
My late mother use to insist that write out her rent check, from our joint checking account.
After I write it out, she insisted to review my english spelling of words, I said if you are so concerned about the spelling, why don't you write it out yourself?
Of course, I had direct deposit but she hear no word of it.
best
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/branch-banking/gavinsiu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 1:03 amI have notice that banks around me, especially the large chains are changing. My bank chase for example have closed tons of branches or convert them to cashless. They also got rid of the safety deposit boxes. I am not sure that this is actually a good idea business-wise. For someone like me who might be a bit younger and more tech savvy, I barely visit a bank and have the bulk of cash in higher yielding internet banks. The customer who visit the bank tend to be older and probalby has more cash. I feel that making the branches into empty shell will just accelerates their decline.
The branch banking model
Last edited by Bogle7 on Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Old fart who does three index stock funds, baby.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Set up auto payments. I’d prefer that over pushing for more online prowess.
And she might be using the same bank as me, so paperless saves me money, as does automatic payments.
And she might be using the same bank as me, so paperless saves me money, as does automatic payments.
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Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
At least for my bank, a popup blocker would be useless. When I log on, the first screen I come to is a screen asking me to sign up for paperless statements and a big button in the middle to agree. Only if I scroll down is there a small discrete button to opt out and then take me to my account home page. This happens EVERY SINGLE TIME these days. There is no popup box.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
I walked into the local Bank of America last week to try to get some answers around fees on ATM, debit, and credit card when traveling internationally. No one at the branch was able to answer. Also learned that they no longer keep any Euros on hand, and you have to order them in.DoubleComma wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:05 pmWorse, when you have a question, or don’t understand something, they don’t want you walking into a physical building with some nice person just waiting behind the counter to spend 35 minutes with you. They don’t care how long you’ve used their bank, and unless you have disgusting amounts money they don’t care how much you with them.
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Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Log into her account every so often and verify it's on paper statements, that's what I do.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Smart.twh wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:35 pmShe may be logging in and they incessantly pop up "go paperless now" screens. It would be easy to click ok if you aren't paying attention or sure what you are clicking.gavinsiu wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:11 pm My mom's credit card and bank accounts keeps switching to paperless. The problem is when that happens, she can't figure out how to pay the bills because there is no envelope to mail the check. My thought is that the banks and credit card display a popup asking the user to change to paperless. I was wondering if there is a good solution other than autopay, which she doesn't want to do.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Very smart. It is great that she can can documents.twh wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:58 pm My mother is almost 90. I screenshare with her at least once a week. She won't do too much on any financial sites without me being there. She will online shop sometimes. She has a multi-function printer and if she gets US Mail I want to see, I have her load it into the scanner and look at if I can't wait until I visit. I signed her up for USPS Informed Deliver and I monitor her email so I can see what US Mail she gets. She does alright for the most part, but it is easier to prevent problems than clean them up.
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Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Do you live near by and visit her at least monthly?
My solution is to spend 1 day a month, part of a visit, helping my aging parent do all online bill payments (and by helping I mean I do everything while Dad watches and okays it all. He has all the usernames and passwords - I have given my siblings all the details of what I am doing in case something should happen to me).
The other alternative is to get POA and do it for her.
My solution is to spend 1 day a month, part of a visit, helping my aging parent do all online bill payments (and by helping I mean I do everything while Dad watches and okays it all. He has all the usernames and passwords - I have given my siblings all the details of what I am doing in case something should happen to me).
The other alternative is to get POA and do it for her.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
It seems that you have found a way regarding you want to convince her to switch to HYSA in another thread.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
We have arrived at a point where people without electronic access to our economic, legal, and social systems are now excluded from much of the functions of society. I noticed recently that getting a AAA emergency service, contracting some tree work, and getting some electrical repairs assumes that I am available on a smart phone by text and on a computer by e-mail.
Solutions to that are that as people age they need to be sure to pursue up to date on line activity before they are irrepairably left behind. This was also found to be an issue across economic classes when access to computers and internet connections frustrated e-school for some.
For people that are so "disabled" helpmates are needed to fill the void. Informal or formal (POA) support is an answer.
Solutions to that are that as people age they need to be sure to pursue up to date on line activity before they are irrepairably left behind. This was also found to be an issue across economic classes when access to computers and internet connections frustrated e-school for some.
For people that are so "disabled" helpmates are needed to fill the void. Informal or formal (POA) support is an answer.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
I imagine if she stopped using their website, she wouldn't get pop-ups to "go paperless."
If she's getting paper statements, and mailing paper checks, what does she need the website for?
Given the possibility of mail getting lost, arriving late, or not being sent by the sender... maybe she should have calendar reminders to pay her bill.
If she's getting paper statements, and mailing paper checks, what does she need the website for?
Given the possibility of mail getting lost, arriving late, or not being sent by the sender... maybe she should have calendar reminders to pay her bill.
Last edited by JoMoney on Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Just as a practical matter--given that fighting the incessant pressure for paperless billing, you could call the toll-free number, and you (probably not her) could push through the menu to "billing" and "representative" and ask where to mail the check. If you have a paper statement from a few months ago, there's probably an address on it and it probably hasn't changed. Once you're sure you have a good mailing address, you could buy envelopes and stamps and preaddress a bunch of them.
I believe that if they receive a check at any reasonable address, and it has the credit card number on it, and a name on it that roughly matches the name on the account, it is almost certain they'll credit properly.
I agree that a likely explanation is that the user interface is intentionally tricking her into agreeing to paperless billing.
I believe that if they receive a check at any reasonable address, and it has the credit card number on it, and a name on it that roughly matches the name on the account, it is almost certain they'll credit properly.
I agree that a likely explanation is that the user interface is intentionally tricking her into agreeing to paperless billing.
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Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
My B&M bank no longer keeps Euros on hand either but I just ordered some from their online site and they arrived in three days delivered to my door. Protects the bank from currency value fluxuation so I really can't fault them for not stocking them.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
I'm 79.
Can you take over paying your Mom's bills for her?
Just random thoughts: credit unions are much friendlier than banks. Also I would never do business with BofA or AmEx due to previous bad experiences with them.
I keep a table with a line for each thing (credit card, phone, electricity, gas, water, Internet) and when I last paid it. So I know when the next payment is requested (I pay then, not waiting until it is due), Your Mom could use email or the phone or websites to know the amount. If she wants to mail a check, she could keep track of the mailing addresses in the table.
For the few things not monthly, I get email bills which include the amount and address so those work okay (grass cutting, etc.) Sometimes I put a reminder in my calendar.
Can you take over paying your Mom's bills for her?
Just random thoughts: credit unions are much friendlier than banks. Also I would never do business with BofA or AmEx due to previous bad experiences with them.
I keep a table with a line for each thing (credit card, phone, electricity, gas, water, Internet) and when I last paid it. So I know when the next payment is requested (I pay then, not waiting until it is due), Your Mom could use email or the phone or websites to know the amount. If she wants to mail a check, she could keep track of the mailing addresses in the table.
For the few things not monthly, I get email bills which include the amount and address so those work okay (grass cutting, etc.) Sometimes I put a reminder in my calendar.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
I am a young oldster. All of my credit cards have been on autopay for years, without a glitch. All of my other bills are automatically charged to my credit card. Essentially, I hardly ever hand write a check and never ever miss a payment. It makes my life so much easier. I download all my statements. Just a thought that you can set this up for your Mom.
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Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Switch to a credit union. They are generally much better to deal with if you need service.gavinsiu wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:11 pm My mom's credit card and bank accounts keeps switching to paperless. The problem is when that happens, she can't figure out how to pay the bills because there is no envelope to mail the check. My thought is that the banks and credit card display a popup asking the user to change to paperless. I was wondering if there is a good solution other than autopay, which she doesn't want to do.
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Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Only choice seems to be manage the bills, statements, and payments for her unless she wants to switch to banks and credit cards that probably charge higher fees and interest rates for paper correspondence and payments.
My mother is in her eighties and has used mobile phones, tablet computers, and laptop and desktop computers for years. But not for banking or online payments. Doesn’t understand or trust them. But her reasoning doesn’t make sense to me because she buys on Amazon and subscribes to Netflix.
She refuses to use an ATM debit card to withdraw her small cash needs and prefers to (still) walk into the bank. She seems to stay mentally sharp by balancing her checkbook the old fashioned way, reconciling with paper receipts, checks, and statements.
One time because of a USPS problem, she needed to make an online payment for her credit cards with me walking her through it. Terrified her probably just because it was new to her.
But at her age, she’s just not going to change or be rational about it or try to learn anything new.
I simply accept that at some point, I or my siblings will have to take over her finances.
My mother is in her eighties and has used mobile phones, tablet computers, and laptop and desktop computers for years. But not for banking or online payments. Doesn’t understand or trust them. But her reasoning doesn’t make sense to me because she buys on Amazon and subscribes to Netflix.
She refuses to use an ATM debit card to withdraw her small cash needs and prefers to (still) walk into the bank. She seems to stay mentally sharp by balancing her checkbook the old fashioned way, reconciling with paper receipts, checks, and statements.
One time because of a USPS problem, she needed to make an online payment for her credit cards with me walking her through it. Terrified her probably just because it was new to her.
But at her age, she’s just not going to change or be rational about it or try to learn anything new.
I simply accept that at some point, I or my siblings will have to take over her finances.
A strategy that works only in bull markets isn’t much of a strategy. Anyway, four dollars a pound.
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Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
I work in banking. I'm sorry to say your mom is fighting a rear-guard action. Banks (and credit unions, in my case) are doing everything they can to move away from paper, and frankly for good reason - digital is a cheaper, easier, and generally more secure. If you can get a contact representative on the phone you can probably get her switched back to paper, but it's going to be an ongoing struggle.
Perhaps this is just part of taking over more of your mother's finances as she ages? It would probably be for the best for you to watching her accounts anyways. Fraud is on the rise, and it disproportionately affects the elderly. We see it all the time.
Perhaps this is just part of taking over more of your mother's finances as she ages? It would probably be for the best for you to watching her accounts anyways. Fraud is on the rise, and it disproportionately affects the elderly. We see it all the time.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Gavinsiu --
I can relate. In my case, it's my DW. I have forewarned my local Son that he will have to deal with this when I'm gone.
I've automated money flow from IRA to Taxable to Checking as much as possible, where she's likely pay many bills via checks. I've set some bills to auto-pay and likely will do more, but I'm concerned she may not follow checking balance enough to even know she needs to move extra money.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
It might be a tough sell but autopay is the way to go. Credit card, gas, electric, a couple streaming services, phone, I was hesitant for years, but wow does it simplify bill paying.gavinsiu wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:11 pm My mom's credit card and bank accounts keeps switching to paperless. The problem is when that happens, she can't figure out how to pay the bills because there is no envelope to mail the check. My thought is that the banks and credit card display a popup asking the user to change to paperless. I was wondering if there is a good solution other than autopay, which she doesn't want to do.
And getting 2% cashback adds up. What card does your mom use? Free money might help convince her to give it a try.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Yes, I managed to get her to autopay her rent because it's the same amount each month. I hesitate on setting up autopay because my wife did that once and she didn't notice that there was a recurring charge on her credit card because she stop looking at it once autopay was in place. However, since my mom monitor her accounts regularly, this might not be an issue. Her filing system is atrocious, she just seems to dump everything into a box, so having no paper might be a good idea in the long term. She does not like the idea of auto-pay, but now that I have gotten her started, I can convince her to autopay the rest.
As for taking over her bills, I am trying not to do that. Mostly because I already handle her finance (though I outsource a lot of that to a fp), her taxes, and various issues she has like an email she received, or some document she received and the usual emotional support. If I do too much for her, she will totally take advantage of it and call me constantly with new tasks. I have a pretty demanding job and have kids of my own. I feel like I barely have time for sleep these days. I used to split this duty with my sister, but she passed away recently.
I think eventually I will have to take over and have POA on everything, but i want this as far in the future as possible.
As for taking over her bills, I am trying not to do that. Mostly because I already handle her finance (though I outsource a lot of that to a fp), her taxes, and various issues she has like an email she received, or some document she received and the usual emotional support. If I do too much for her, she will totally take advantage of it and call me constantly with new tasks. I have a pretty demanding job and have kids of my own. I feel like I barely have time for sleep these days. I used to split this duty with my sister, but she passed away recently.
I think eventually I will have to take over and have POA on everything, but i want this as far in the future as possible.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
How about giving her a stack of addressed and stamped envelopes. You don't have to use the ones they send. Put the dates on your calendar and each month send her a reminder to go online and get her balance.
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Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
You could try to check their paperless settings each time before you logout, but that seems like a lot of work.
You might get duplicate statements sent directly to you, and then check monthly to verify that she got the snail mail statement.
There may be other steps you can do for her, short of a full Power Of Attorney, to help pay her bills on time,
but you may have to ensure that the rest of the family is onboard.
Calling the bank customer service to prevent future paperless switching, or for additional return envelopes might help,
but I am doubtful this would be allowed.
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Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Assuming she can turn it on (have you tried a picture to remind her where it is), have you tried any remote access software so you can watch/control her screen?
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
I decided to take this as an opportunity to negotiate with her to set up autopay. She suffers from anxiety where she worries that she won't make an appointment or pay a bill on time. It's actually a useful ailment since that means she never missed a payment or an appointment. It's not so great when she starts pestering me by phone and text or sending pictures of the bill to remind me that her bill is due next week.
I am trying out using ebill because I am trying to avoid exposing her routing information. My plan is to schedule it so it auto pays each month using ebill. I send the initial payment and my mom calls me 30 minutes later to indicate someone had withdrew money from her account, so at least I know she is paying attention. After thinking about the different methods, this might be the best way to go. If ebill doesn't work then I will setup autopay from the receiving end.
Yes, I do use screen share on her phone and her computer. However, due to security, many of the phone sharing will blank out when there is sensitive information like a password field or bank information on screen, complicating tech support matters.
As for telling the bank to stop requesting paperless, I don't think they can do that. She has gotten them to switch it back off by threatening to close her account, but frankly these days I feel that banks don't really care that much about customer retention even if the account is at FDIC limit, it's not considered a big account.
I am trying out using ebill because I am trying to avoid exposing her routing information. My plan is to schedule it so it auto pays each month using ebill. I send the initial payment and my mom calls me 30 minutes later to indicate someone had withdrew money from her account, so at least I know she is paying attention. After thinking about the different methods, this might be the best way to go. If ebill doesn't work then I will setup autopay from the receiving end.
Yes, I do use screen share on her phone and her computer. However, due to security, many of the phone sharing will blank out when there is sensitive information like a password field or bank information on screen, complicating tech support matters.
As for telling the bank to stop requesting paperless, I don't think they can do that. She has gotten them to switch it back off by threatening to close her account, but frankly these days I feel that banks don't really care that much about customer retention even if the account is at FDIC limit, it's not considered a big account.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Update
So I have gotten all of her reocurring billing account to autobill. I had setup her checking account with a few thousand for billing with no auto transfer. My mom would be responsible for keeping the checking account filled to cover the bills and also to review that the bills are correct. I then setup autobilling to pay about 5 days before the due date reasoning that if there was an issue there would be time to fix it. Since she seems to exhibit OCD tendencies, I figure she would constantly check her accounts.
So far, the autobilling has worked pretty well. I had initially attempt to setup ebill and then a push, but found that the ebill didn't work. I then changed it to pull and that seems to work.
The human factor however continues to pose an issue. My mom sees the bill and then start calling me constantly because she thought if the bill was mailed, it would immediately be paid. I told her that it is paid 5 days before the due date. She then calls exactly 5 days before the due date to informed me that it was still not paid and I informed her that bills pay may take one or two business days to show up. It's a bit annoying but at least I know she is paying attention. This is a learning process for everyone.
So I have gotten all of her reocurring billing account to autobill. I had setup her checking account with a few thousand for billing with no auto transfer. My mom would be responsible for keeping the checking account filled to cover the bills and also to review that the bills are correct. I then setup autobilling to pay about 5 days before the due date reasoning that if there was an issue there would be time to fix it. Since she seems to exhibit OCD tendencies, I figure she would constantly check her accounts.
So far, the autobilling has worked pretty well. I had initially attempt to setup ebill and then a push, but found that the ebill didn't work. I then changed it to pull and that seems to work.
The human factor however continues to pose an issue. My mom sees the bill and then start calling me constantly because she thought if the bill was mailed, it would immediately be paid. I told her that it is paid 5 days before the due date. She then calls exactly 5 days before the due date to informed me that it was still not paid and I informed her that bills pay may take one or two business days to show up. It's a bit annoying but at least I know she is paying attention. This is a learning process for everyone.
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Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
It's very difficult and I know no good answer.
And there's another problem.
The rise of various forms of two-factor authentication has now made it difficult to do "friendly impersonation with permission," because you can no longer impersonate someone online just by knowing their password. These days you need access to their cell phone or email account to get the verification code. Makes it much harder to help people with their online accounts.
As always, security has costs, and I believe the cost of online statements and TFA is going to include a flood of lost and inaccessible accounts escheating to the state treasurers' offices.
And there's another problem.
The rise of various forms of two-factor authentication has now made it difficult to do "friendly impersonation with permission," because you can no longer impersonate someone online just by knowing their password. These days you need access to their cell phone or email account to get the verification code. Makes it much harder to help people with their online accounts.
As always, security has costs, and I believe the cost of online statements and TFA is going to include a flood of lost and inaccessible accounts escheating to the state treasurers' offices.
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Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
I have employed strategies to try to work around the issue:nisiprius wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 7:50 am It's very difficult and I know no good answer.
And there's another problem.
The rise of various forms of two-factor authentication has now made it difficult to do "friendly impersonation with permission," because you can no longer impersonate someone online just by knowing their password. These days you need access to their cell phone or email account to get the verification code. Makes it much harder to help people with their online accounts.
As always, security has costs, and I believe the cost of online statements and TFA is going to include a flood of lost and inaccessible accounts escheating to the state treasurers' offices.
1. If the site allows it, I setup TOTP 2FA and store them in Bitwarden password manager. This allow my mom to just press CTRL-V to paste the TOTP value. Actually somethings the field is autofilled. Yes, some people will say you should keep 2FA separately, but the vault is reasonably secure and 2fa is better than none.
2. If the site only allows SMS and can support VOIP, I tried to use the google voice, which would allow me to access google voice, too.
3. If the site does not allow VOIP, I tried to setup multiple cell numbers. Often when prompted for 2FA, I can select which SMS number to use.
4. If the site only allows a single number and only works with VOIP, I use teamviewer to look at the screen for 2FA. Sometimes, I just call, but she is often not fast enough to tell me the 6-digit code before it expires.
5. I limit the device I support. I usually work with her to authorized a device. Once authorized, the devices can be exempted from requiring 2fa. This also allow me to notice if someone else is logging into her account.
What hasn't work were hardware keys. Plugging them in turn out to be a challenge for mom.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
I am age 79 and use paperless bill payment for everything. It is essential to comply with modern procedures or else you will be left out of the mainstream of life. I also manage my investments without using an advisor. Take the time to learn.
wait until next year!
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
At 78, we have been completely online and as paperless as possible since 2005. I would not dream of going back.
However, I am now seeing Mrs O's cognitive abilities declining, to the point where she is not reliable at getting things done online. This is a person who was a CPA for years, very detail-oriented.
So, as this thread shows, most of us old geezers manage well in this paperless age, but eventuallly some or all of us will fail to keep up. That, in my opinion, is the time for family to step in, take over as POA, and manage the finances. It's a tough decision to give up one's independence, but it is far kinder to do that than be subject to all the fraudsters and crooks.
However, I am now seeing Mrs O's cognitive abilities declining, to the point where she is not reliable at getting things done online. This is a person who was a CPA for years, very detail-oriented.
So, as this thread shows, most of us old geezers manage well in this paperless age, but eventuallly some or all of us will fail to keep up. That, in my opinion, is the time for family to step in, take over as POA, and manage the finances. It's a tough decision to give up one's independence, but it is far kinder to do that than be subject to all the fraudsters and crooks.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
I think there may be two different issues here. First there is cognative decline where someone who was once capable slowly become less so and need someone to step in. The second is just someone who failed to keep up with the times. Part of this I think result in a division of labor that occurs when you are married. For example, my wife typically books the travel and I often deal with bills and finance. I am pretty sure that if either of us passes away, the other can figure out how to do the other person's job.
Sometimes though I have notice that the surviving spouse might not be able pick up what the other person is doing. I think it is mostly because they are more afraid than not being able to do it. Of course, somethings technology changed so much that nothing is familar. It might be useful to switch task every once in a while to make sure everyone knows what the other is doing.
Sometimes though I have notice that the surviving spouse might not be able pick up what the other person is doing. I think it is mostly because they are more afraid than not being able to do it. Of course, somethings technology changed so much that nothing is familar. It might be useful to switch task every once in a while to make sure everyone knows what the other is doing.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
This is a very common problem with folks from this generation as they are intimidated. Ultimately they are smart enough to figure it out but don't want to for some reason. We all have varying levels of tech skills and frankly this is really basic stuff. After two decades you're not likely going to get to her but I think I would set her card up with a bank account she can use to do a transfer and help her with it the first several times. If that doesn't work perhaps you should do it for her. All kidding aside; if she can't figure out how to turn on a computer how capable is she of writing checks and mailing bills?
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
I have the opposite problem. US Bank keeps switching me to paper, because their new system can't deliver to my email address (the same one I used with them for years, that still works with Vanguard, Fidelity, all my other banks, and even US Bank when they want to send me marketing emails). Maybe you could just delete her email address? Although that might cause other problems.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
260chrisb wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 8:27 am This is a very common problem with folks from this generation as they are intimidated. Ultimately they are smart enough to figure it out but don't want to for some reason. We all have varying levels of tech skills and frankly this is really basic stuff. After two decades you're not likely going to get to her but I think I would set her card up with a bank account she can use to do a transfer and help her with it the first several times. If that doesn't work perhaps you should do it for her. All kidding aside; if she can't figure out how to turn on a computer how capable is she of writing checks and mailing bills?
I conclude that it's a personality quirk. My mom appears to be a procedural person. She likes her life to be a routine that she follows. She gets confused when there are surprises. For example, to get her to drive some place new, you just need to repeatly guide her to the destination. She will eventually remember it and drive there without issue. The problem is if someone adds a small detour to the road, she will just get lost.
The other thing is if she doesn't do something often, it gets forgotten. This is natural but probably gets worse as someone ages. You can teach her something, but if she doesn't use it everyday, she will forget it. She rarely turns off her computer and so don't know how to turn it back on. I have taught her how to communicate with her sibling using Whatsapp. She has master it and uses it without issue.
In my opinon, it is also a bit of laziness on her part. Rather than figuring it herself, she will ask someone else. Because she doesn't want to seem incompetent, the only people she will call is her kids. I can often get her to figure things out herself by being less helpful. Suppose she gets a large stack of document, she may asked me to look at it to tell her what it is (probably a promotion). She will want me to remote to her computer and scan the documents through the scanner. What I do is tell her to make a copy of the document and mail it to me. She will often then read through it because scanning it and mailing it is a lot more work. If I just tell her to do it herself she will just say that she can't do it.
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Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Does your mother have an IPad? I recently told my SIL to stop sending out checks and use her small town bank's app to pay bills online. They had a list of all her regular payees in the app already setup for electric payment, and all she had to do was enter the account number the first time and the amount to pay. We did this while on vacation together and she was pleased with how easy it was and how quickly the payee received payment. She now pays nearly all her bills with the app.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
She is unable to use an ipad. The interface confused her.testing321 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:50 am Does your mother have an IPad? I recently told my SIL to stop sending out checks and use her small town bank's app to pay bills online. They had a list of all her regular payees in the app already setup for electric payment, and all she had to do was enter the account number the first time and the amount to pay. We did this while on vacation together and she was pleased with how easy it was and how quickly the payee received payment. She now pays nearly all her bills with the app.
Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
I ran into some further issues though technically it's not really autopay issue. The autopay successfully pay the bill at the beginning of each month, but there were transactions at the end of last month. The autopay is successful, but the bill due date doesn't change immediately to the next due date, so now the the web page shows the old due date and the new balance, causing the user to think that the bill did not get paid. This would not be an issue if paper statements were used.
This also cause mint to warn that a bill is overdue.
This also cause mint to warn that a bill is overdue.
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Re: Accounts keep switching to paperless
Another option is to see if the bank has an "Accessibility" dept. to help the disabled. If the bank isn't friendly to seniors, it might be necessary to find one that is. Chesapeake Bank (in VA) is opening branches in retirement communities. I don't use Chesapeake Bank, but mine has local branches.
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