Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

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Topic Author
Freeadvice
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:42 pm

Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by Freeadvice »

I realized that my GEICO policy is totally insufficient. Thoughts on the below coverage proposal? I don’t need collision as it’s an old car. I’m wondering why I need 1mil in property damage but only $100,000 in personal injury protection. Isn’t that the opposite of what I should have? I am also getting a $1 million umbrella policy. In NYC.

Liability
Bodily Injury- 1 mil/1mil
Property Damage- 1mil
Supplemental Spousal Liability included
Mandatory Personal Injury Protection (PIP) with OptionalBasic Economic Loss
Additional Personal Injury Protection-$100k
Comprehensive CoverageType-Comprehensive with glass
Comprehensive Deductible-1k
Sup Underinsured Motorist-Bodily Injury -1mil/1mil
Emergency Road Service
CarRental andTravel Expenses
hachiko
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Re: Woefully uninsured

Post by hachiko »

Why do you need $100k of PIP?
Made money. Lost money. Learned to stop counting.
PNWpilot
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Re: Woefully uninsured

Post by PNWpilot »

OP,

You say you're in NYC, so this may change the math for those of us outside of that busy urban environment. However, do you really need emergency road service and car rental expenses? A good AAA membership should cover your emergency road service and NYC would have enough public transport options that you wouldn't need a rental car. I know it's likely to be a small part of your overall premium, but it can often be an unneeded, and redundant cost.

I agree with the above, why do you need additional 100k of PIP?

If you have a million dollar umbrella policy and 1mil/1mil/1 mil bodily injury, property damage, and underinsured motorist........that's 2 million in total coverage. How exactly are you underinsured?
Topic Author
Freeadvice
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Re: Woefully uninsured

Post by Freeadvice »

I am currently underinsured. The above is a proposal for a NEW State Farm policy. I am also getting an umbrella policy which I do not currently have. I don’t know why I need the additional $100,000 in pip. I guess for medical expenses and lost wages? What I really want to know is why I would need 1mil in property damage.
safari
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Re: Woefully uninsured

Post by safari »

Freeadvice wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 11:41 am I am currently underinsured. The above is a proposal for a NEW State Farm policy. I am also getting an umbrella policy which I do not currently have. I don’t know why I need the additional $100,000 in pip. I guess for medical expenses and lost wages? What I really want to know is why I would need 1mil in property damage.
You don't need $1M in property damage, especially, if you're getting an umbrella policy. Find out what the minimal required coverage is for an umbrella and get that. Usually it's something like $300K in bodily injury and $100K in property damage, and then your umbrella policy will cover anything in excess of that up to $1M extra, or whatever your umbrella is going to be.
Topic Author
Freeadvice
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by Freeadvice »

Thanks, everyone. What PIP coverage should I get?
talzara
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Re: Woefully uninsured

Post by talzara »

safari wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 11:53 am You don't need $1M in property damage, especially, if you're getting an umbrella policy. Find out what the minimal required coverage is for an umbrella and get that. Usually it's something like $300K in bodily injury and $100K in property damage, and then your umbrella policy will cover anything in excess of that up to $1M extra, or whatever your umbrella is going to be.
If you have a deeply discounted auto insurance policy, it can be a better deal to increase the primary policy limits to $1 million instead of buying the first million of umbrella. You'd only have $1 million of total coverage instead of $1.3 million ($2 million instead of $2.3 million for the OP), and the homeowners liability limit will also have to be increased, but it can still be a better deal.

However, this is unlikely to happen for a State Farm policy. It's more likely to happen with a company that has a more sophisticated rate manual.
talzara
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by talzara »

Freeadvice wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 11:58 am Thanks, everyone. What PIP coverage should I get?
Whatever you feel you need.

Doctors are always willing to accept PIP because it pays better than health insurance. If your health insurance has a very small network, then PIP will let you see any doctor. If you have good health insurance, then PIP is not as valuable. A really serious accident will exceed $100k in medical bills.
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celia
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by celia »

Freeadvice wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 11:58 am Thanks, everyone. What PIP coverage should I get?
After reading this, I think you need at least $100K. Note that it can also be mandated by your state and can cover you even when not driving.

Ask your agent what each item means. And if you want to be a good consumer, you will get more than one quote.


Personal story: I was visiting a friend in the middle of some errands. The next place I was headed to was a native plant nursery and I asked her if she wanted to go with me even though we had to go on a freeway. She agreed. But at the last second before we were to leave, she asked if her roommate could come along. I said sure and then I had 2 passengers. As I got on the freeway, I started thinking how the roommate likely didn’t have medical insurance since they were out of work but temporarily living with my friend. A little while later I was driving at the max freeway speed when I saw a problematic lane change ahead but in a lane next to mine. As we passed it, there was the sound of a nearby collision. It didn’t impact us, but it could have, and I could have easily had a mess to figure out.
Topic Author
Freeadvice
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by Freeadvice »

Thanks everyone. So I guess I don’t need 1mil in property damage unless I get a Rolls Royce and I hit and total another Rolls Royce. Lol.
simplextableau
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by simplextableau »

Freeadvice wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 4:49 pm Thanks everyone. So I guess I don’t need 1mil in property damage unless I get a Rolls Royce and I hit and total another Rolls Royce. Lol.
Or you hit a city bus. Or veer off the road into a house, or a water plant, or a substation...
LeftCoastIV
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by LeftCoastIV »

If you don’t care about the amount of collision coverage because your car is old, then why not increase your deductible and lower your premium?
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

So when I need to figure this all out, I don't. My independent insurance agent has been working with me for over 20 years. Same exact person. My autos and my umbrella are all with this agency so what I need for the autos, I have. What I need for the the umbrella within the auto coverage, I have. I have no idea how Geico agents are as I've never had them for insurance, although if you do, I guess you're helping my Berkshire stock, so thanks for that. But I'd want a knowledgeable agent who when we need to be absolutely sure will go to their inside contact at the insurance company and verify.
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Topic Author
Freeadvice
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by Freeadvice »

LeftCoastIV wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 5:20 pm If you don’t care about the amount of collision coverage because your car is old, then why not increase your deductible and lower your premium?
Good idea! I will do that.
Topic Author
Freeadvice
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by Freeadvice »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 5:28 pm So when I need to figure this all out, I don't. My independent insurance agent has been working with me for over 20 years. Same exact person. My autos and my umbrella are all with this agency so what I need for the autos, I have. What I need for the the umbrella within the auto coverage, I have. I have no idea how Geico agents are as I've never had them for insurance, although if you do, I guess you're helping my Berkshire stock, so thanks for that. But I'd want a knowledgeable agent who when we need to be absolutely sure will go to their inside contact at the insurance company and verify.
You identified the problem. I thought my spouse was handling this but wasn’t. My State Farm agent retired and they had the new kid call me who is not knowledgeable and neither am I. The Geico agent was knowledgeable but they’re charging twice as much as State Farm.
Topic Author
Freeadvice
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by Freeadvice »

simplextableau wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 4:58 pm
Freeadvice wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 4:49 pm Thanks everyone. So I guess I don’t need 1mil in property damage unless I get a Rolls Royce and I hit and total another Rolls Royce. Lol.
Or you hit a city bus. Or veer off the road into a house, or a water plant, or a substation...
Yes, the umbrella policy will come in handy for those instances.
placeholder
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Re: Woefully uninsured

Post by placeholder »

PNWpilot wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 11:34 am However, do you really need emergency road service and car rental expenses? A good AAA membership should cover your emergency road service and NYC would have enough public transport options that you wouldn't need a rental car. I know it's likely to be a small part of your overall premium, but it can often be an unneeded, and redundant cost.
Roadside assistance insurance is way cheaper as an example mine with american family is a bit over $14 per year so unless you have some other reason for auto club I wouldn't spend the money on that.
Outer Marker
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by Outer Marker »

An umbrealla is a good idea. With $1M in coverage there, just get the minimums required by umbrella carrier on your auto policy. If you've got medical and disability coverage, I don't see any reason to carry more than the minimum on PIP.
Jags4186
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by Jags4186 »

I carry $250k in PIP coverage. It not only covers you but others in the vehicle.
simas
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by simas »

Freeadvice wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 11:58 am Thanks, everyone. What PIP coverage should I get?
what does your liability insurance provider say? Typically these are coordinated , i.e. mine/ours was increased in limits to work along 2 million umbrella policy.
av111
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by av111 »

celia wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 3:11 pm
Freeadvice wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 11:58 am Thanks, everyone. What PIP coverage should I get?
After reading this, I think you need at least $100K. Note that it can also be mandated by your state and can cover you even when not driving.

Ask your agent what each item means. And if you want to be a good consumer, you will get more than one quote.


Personal story: I was visiting a friend in the middle of some errands. The next place I was headed to was a native plant nursery and I asked her if she wanted to go with me even though we had to go on a freeway. She agreed. But at the last second before we were to leave, she asked if her roommate could come along. I said sure and then I had 2 passengers. As I got on the freeway, I started thinking how the roommate likely didn’t have medical insurance since they were out of work but temporarily living with my friend. A little while later I was driving at the max freeway speed when I saw a problematic lane change ahead but in a lane next to mine. As we passed it, there was the sound of a nearby collision. It didn’t impact us, but it could have, and I could have easily had a mess to figure out.
Continuing your example, say an uninsured judgement proof driver hits you and the accident causes a few fractures to the passengers. Passengers sue the at fault driver and you

PIP clearly does not cover the entire medical costs. Does liability and then umbrella step in to cover you?
AV111
talzara
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by talzara »

simas wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 10:57 am
Freeadvice wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 11:58 am Thanks, everyone. What PIP coverage should I get?
what does your liability insurance provider say? Typically these are coordinated , i.e. mine/ours was increased in limits to work along 2 million umbrella policy.
Umbrella insurance does not include excess PIP coverage, even in no-fault states. There is nothing to coordinate.

PIP would be coordinated with your health insurance. PIP would also coordinate with disability insurance if you have it. However, if you're injured seriously enough to need disability insurance, it is likely that medical costs will use up all of your PIP coverage.

Umbrella insurance is third-party insurance (excess liability). The only first-party coverage that's commonly included in umbrella insurance is excess uninsured/underinsured motorist insurance, and not every company offers it.
talzara
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by talzara »

av111 wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 11:36 am Continuing your example, say an uninsured judgement proof driver hits you and the accident causes a few fractures to the passengers. Passengers sue the at fault driver and you

PIP clearly does not cover the entire medical costs. Does liability and then umbrella step in to cover you?
Some umbrella insurers offer excess uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage. That would be the first step.

You should have no liability if the other driver is found to be 100% at fault. Depending on the state, you may have liability if you are found to be partially at fault. Liability insurance would defend you against a lawsuit, but it will not defend you against family members. Some insurance companies define family member more broadly than others.
av111
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by av111 »

talzara wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 12:09 pm
av111 wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 11:36 am Continuing your example, say an uninsured judgement proof driver hits you and the accident causes a few fractures to the passengers. Passengers sue the at fault driver and you

PIP clearly does not cover the entire medical costs. Does liability and then umbrella step in to cover you?
Some umbrella insurers offer excess uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage. That would be the first step.

You should have no liability if the other driver is found to be 100% at fault. Depending on the state, you may have liability if you are found to be partially at fault. Liability insurance would defend you against a lawsuit, but it will not defend you against family members. Some insurance companies define family member more broadly than others.
Makes sense. I am asking a couple of independent insurance companies to provide comprehensive cover for all our exposures. Will ask this question
AV111
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celia
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by celia »

Freeadvice wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 4:49 pm Thanks everyone. So I guess I don’t need 1mil in property damage unless I get a Rolls Royce and I hit and total another Rolls Royce. Lol.
Property damage covers buildings, fences, light poles, etc.

Someone rear ended me right after we both made a left turn. I was about to enter a driveway on my right (driver behind me didn’t notice I was slowing down) and the impact pushed me into a motorized gate that ended up bent and no longer rollable. My car was dented front and back. Their insurance paid for everything. Luckily, there were no injuries.
Topic Author
Freeadvice
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by Freeadvice »

celia wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 4:01 pm
Freeadvice wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 4:49 pm Thanks everyone. So I guess I don’t need 1mil in property damage unless I get a Rolls Royce and I hit and total another Rolls Royce. Lol.
Property damage covers buildings, fences, light poles, etc.

Someone rear ended me right after we both made a left turn. I was about to enter a driveway on my right (driver behind me didn’t notice I was slowing down) and the impact pushed me into a motorized gate that ended up bent and no longer rollable. My car was dented front and back. Their insurance paid for everything. Luckily, there were no injuries.
Thanks for the additional info. When I asked the agent what property damage covered, he replied that it covered damage to property. I think I need a new agent.
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celia
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Re: Woefully uninsured [auto, umbrella]

Post by celia »

Property also includes mailboxes, trees and bushes, swimming pools(!!!), bus stops, bicycles, pets (I guess), freeway signs, and bridges.

The agent was right but not as detailed as I am.
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