Personal Security / Driver

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AnnetteLouisan
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Personal Security / Driver

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

For the urbanites Bogleheads among us, I’d appreciate your thoughts on when and under what circumstances and net worth levels it makes sense to use a personal security person and driver for routine shorter and longer day trips.

It appears anecdotally that with the retirement wave among police officers, there are a lot of very capable people offering personal security / driver services on a part time basis.

In the past, this would have been mainly for people who were famous, ultra high net worth or under some sort of threat, but these days as my family is more widely dispersed over a broader geographic area (various large cities), advancing in age where driving is becoming riskier, and crime is more prominent in the news, I am wondering when it would make sense to explore this and what the usual rates are.

Does one have to hire them with an annual salary or can it be ad hoc? I’ve never looked into this before so I don’t know what is customary. Is there a customary hourly rate range? Is there a recommended process (checking references etc) other than word of mouth?

If you’d prefer to PM me that’s fine too. I’d appreciate any suggestions.
GmanJeff
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by GmanJeff »

Security of all types, including executive/personal protection, should be based on a threat assessment. The nature of the threat should drive the countermeasure(s) selected, along with cost and other considerations, e.g., convenience and practicality. Bodyguards, armed or unarmed, are a particular type of countermeasure which may or may not be the most appropriate under given circumstances, and would likely be just one element of a multi-layered protection strategy. A security driver trained in countersurveillance and evasive driving might use an armored vehicle, for example, and might be supplemented by additional protection staff who do not have driving responsibilities but who accompany the protectee outside the vehicle.

Personal protection is available through private security companies, and sometimes through police/sheriff's departments which allow their employees to take such roles to supplement their full-time government employment. Sworn police officers cost more than individuals who are unarmed or who are armed private security without law enforcement powers. Sworn officers are paid hourly; non-police private security staff can be hired directly on an hourly or annual basis. Costs vary geographically, and with the level of training required, e.g., former military, former law enforcement, current law enforcement working part-time, with or without medical training. Armed personnel cost more than unarmed staff.

For people not under particular threat, behavioral changes would likely make more sense and be much more cost effective than hiring personal security: Don't use more risky modes of transportation, don't go into higher crime areas, don't appear vulnerable or otherwise attractive as a target (e.g., don't wear seemingly or actually expensive jewelry), don't go places alone if uncomfortable, relocate away from, and don't travel to or in, environments where crime is such a concern that you'd consider needing a bodyguard. Residential security should be considered, i.e., alarms, lighting, locks, not opening the door to unknown visitors. etc.
LittleMaggieMae
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

In the past, this would have been mainly for people who were famous, ultra high net worth or under some sort of threat, but these days as my family is more widely dispersed over a broader geographic area (various large cities), advancing in age where driving is becoming riskier, and crime is more prominent in the news, I am wondering when it would make sense to explore this and what the usual rates are.
I can see wanting a trust worthy driver (someone who doesn't get high or drunk routinely because at some point they WILL be high or drunk and driving you...) as one ages. You want to get where you are going and not be exhausted or tired stressed from the drive. :)

I'm not really seeing a increase in crimes against "old people" - most of the rise in crime seems to be in age ranges below "old person". I do often see crimes/violence against older people - but it's usually more of a "they know the person stealing or committing elder abuse" as opposed to they got robbed on the way to the Opera.... Also there's more crime against the elderly from "scammers" - so a phone call asking for money, or someone coming to their door and claiming to be a utility worker or sometimes just crimes of opportunity - the thief is walking past and sees the opportunity to take a wallet or purse.
And all of the above were concerns 30 years ago when my mom was in her 70's because of the "crimes of opportunity" aspect versus the "targeted" aspect.

That said, you are concerned about driving/traveling.... so I'm thinking it might come down to what kind of vehicle you are driving and how in demand it is among "car jackers".

Does the family you would be visiting live in high crime blighted areas? How out of place will you and your vehicle be when you visit?

Having a reliable driver means it will be less likely that you will become lost getting to your destination. I think generally a person who is not acting confidently (when you are lost you might be more agitated/erratic) tends to be a better "crime of opportunity" target than someone who is confident about what they are doing and where they are going.

OK, I live in a densely populated urban area - and despite what my family in Florida thinks - I am not living in a "gang battle field" and I don't require a bodyguard to go the grocery store or bank or anywhere else. People walk their dogs routinely, kids walk to school, joggers and walkers excerise at all hours. No one is being gunned downed in the street. Cars are not driving by spraying bullets. Is there violence? yes. there always has been. It's not any worse than it was 30 years ago. I still live in a 'working class and above' area.

My opinion may be vary biased - maybe there are places in America where it's important to be armed and prepared to die when you go out in public...
Just saying...
Last edited by LittleMaggieMae on Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
mega317
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by mega317 »

I think you need to separate needing/wanting a driver because you're too old to drive from being under some extraordinary personal security threat. The latter is pretty unlikely although I guess you're just an internet rando we don't know anything about you.

I had a distant relative who used to be driven around town in an armored car. But that was in Barranquilla. Who knows what he was into.
LittleMaggieMae
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Re: Personal Sec

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

this would have been mainly for people who were famous
I'm starting to hear more about youtubers who have been doing their channel for years and years and are finally getting "more famous" often have issues with a "fan" or "fans"... not unlike celebrities of yore. It's not hard to "track down" or "find" your youtube favorite personality (and threaten them). And I suspect more and more youtubers will obscure their personal information/clues about how to find them going forward. I think the same goes for any of the other social media platforms. Maybe even someone who's self publishing their work or selling their product on line may have security issues they wouldn't have if they weren't reaching such a wide audience. :(

So, when deciding about kind of security one needs one might need think about what "famous" actually means in this day and age.

:(
tunafish
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by tunafish »

Every few months I used to drive 1-2 hours each way to get to one of several places in a neighboring state. Most of these were for checkups with specialists in dense urban areas where driving was terrible due to high speed traffic, etc.

A year or so ago I switched to hiring a driver, so now I just sit back and no worries. Also, I am ancient so it is much better to know if there is car trouble or snow, etc. I am not dealing with it myself. My family is mostly out of state.

The guy who does this runs a concierge service and I have hired him for various things for years, so I don't need to check him out. The most recent trip took about 4 hours and he billed $250. This is just for driving, there is no crime/security aspect.

For trips within my small state, I drive myself. Even if it's some place I haven't been before, there is much less of a dense traffic. etc. concern.
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Basically my thought was, a driver is very convenient if one is avoiding public transportation and one who is also a former uniformed professional is a nice added touch given higher crime rates lately. Recent experience of drivers who happened to be recently retired firefighters and police officers in their 50s gave me the idea.

I don’t think I’m a particular target more than anyone else, but I and my family can’t avoid going to higher crime areas since the areas where we all live and work have now become much higher crime, so why not go with a vetted and professional driver than some ad hoc uber, Lyft or cab driver.

Also it’s a nice way to give back to deserving retirees who still want to be active and earn some extra money.
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SuzBanyan
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by SuzBanyan »

You asked about drivers last year: viewtopic.php?p=6964800&hilit=Driver#p6964800
If a driver is more important than the personal security aspect, you might check into The Village Movement. Membership in my my local chapter includes up to 10 round trip rides per month from a volunteer.
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

tunafish wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:07 pm Every few months I used to drive 1-2 hours each way to get to one of several places in a neighboring state. Most of these were for checkups with specialists in dense urban areas where driving was terrible due to high speed traffic, etc.

A year or so ago I switched to hiring a driver, so now I just sit back and no worries. Also, I am ancient so it is much better to know if there is car trouble or snow, etc. I am not dealing with it myself. My family is mostly out of state.

The guy who does this runs a concierge service and I have hired him for various things for years, so I don't need to check him out. The most recent trip took about 4 hours and he billed $250. This is just for driving, there is no crime/security aspect.

For trips within my small state, I drive myself. Even if it's some place I haven't been before, there is much less of a dense traffic. etc. concern.
Yes exactly. This is what I mean.
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by bsteiner »

Crime has dropped substantially over the last 30 years in the United States.
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by sport »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:10 pm Basically my thought was, a driver is very convenient if one is avoiding public transportation and one who is also a former uniformed professional is a nice added touch given higher crime rates lately. Recent experience of drivers who happened to be recently retired firefighters and police officers in their 50s gave me the idea.

I don’t think I’m a particular target more than anyone else, but I and my family can’t avoid going to higher crime areas since the areas where we all live and work have now become much higher crime, so why not go with a vetted and professional driver than some ad hoc uber, Lyft or cab driver.

Also it’s a nice way to give back to deserving retirees who still want to be active and earn some extra money.
Perhaps what you are seeing is a function of living in NYC. In my area, I have never even heard of anyone hiring a driver.
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by Doctor Rhythm »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:51 pm For the urbanites Bogleheads among us, I’d appreciate your thoughts on when and under what circumstances and net worth levels it makes sense to use a personal security person and driver for routine shorter and longer day trips.
How about “never”? At least for regular folks who deal with everyday concerns and lead ordinary lives in relative obscurity. Not to make light of crime, but everyone faces risks, yet exceptionally few people feel the need to hire a body guard, even if they can afford it. So if one does, I think it says more about them rather than their environment. If I felt scared to leave my home, I would move to somewhere I’m more comfortable or learn to deal with my anxiety before I hire protection. By the way, if your wealth makes you fearful of being victimized, then you’re doing it wrong. Wealth is protection and safety; it should give you confidence.

If someone is remarkably rich, famous, powerful or otherwise likely to be individually targeted because they have enemies, their situation is so different than mine that I can’t imagine it.
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Doctor Rhythm wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:21 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:51 pm For the urbanites Bogleheads among us, I’d appreciate your thoughts on when and under what circumstances and net worth levels it makes sense to use a personal security person and driver for routine shorter and longer day trips.
How about “never”? At least for regular folks who deal with everyday concerns and lead ordinary lives in relative obscurity. Not to make light of crime, but everyone faces risks, yet exceptionally few people feel the need to hire a body guard, even if they can afford it. So if one does, I think it says more about them rather than their environment. If I felt scared to leave my home, I would move to somewhere I’m more comfortable or learn to deal with my anxiety before I hire protection. By the way, if your wealth makes you fearful of being victimized, then you’re doing it wrong. Wealth is protection and safety; it should give you confidence.

If someone is remarkably rich, famous, powerful or otherwise likely to be individually targeted because they have enemies, their situation is so different than mine that I can’t imagine it.
It’s likely dependent on where you live, as the prior commenter mentioned.

These days, people who left the cities to WFH but need to go into the office occasionally but prefer not to use public transportation are considering this. It’s very similar to an Uber but with the same driver every time who has additional skillsets. With the cost of parking in NYC or DC for example, and now congestion pricing in nyc coming soon, a drop off service can be attractive.

I’m not the only one.
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:40 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by snackdog »

I have lived overseas where it is practical, affordable and sensible to have an armored vehicle and driver. Overall, we sort of hated it. I prefer to drive myself. The type of people who may threaten a vehicle are going to have weapons which can easily overcome a lightly armored vehicle and/or armed driver. Driving myself, I just avoid sketchy areas, especially after dark. I did have more than one colleague who was car-jacked including one shot in the stomach (he survived). Car-jackers typically only want cash and electronics, not to kidnap or harm anyone compliant.

One must be very careful using google or other mapping services. The fastest route to your destination could be through an area where you are at risk of being shot on sight. This has happened and been reported in the news. I myself was routed by Google maps into a bad area. I turned around a block or so after passing armored military trucks and soldiers who looked at me like I was nuts.
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by Doctor Rhythm »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:29 pm It’s likely dependent on where you live, as the prior commenter mentioned.

These days, people who left the cities to WFH but need to go into the office occasionally but prefer not to use public transportation are considering this. I’m not the only one.
Why don’t they drive themselves, take a taxi, or use Uber/Lyft like other city-dwellers who can afford this?
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by ClaycordJCA »

To keep this thread actionable and avoid derailing it, replies should focus on the specific consumer issues raised in OP’s post:
Does one have to hire them with an annual salary or can it be ad hoc? I’ve never looked into this before so I don’t know what is customary. Is there a customary hourly rate range? Is there a recommended process (checking references etc) other than word of mouth?
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by ResearchMed »

SuzBanyan wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:11 pm You asked about drivers last year: viewtopic.php?p=6964800&hilit=Driver#p6964800
If a driver is more important than the personal security aspect, you might check into The Village Movement. Membership in my my local chapter includes up to 10 round trip rides per month from a volunteer.

From that other thread linked by SuzBanyan:
viewtopic.php?p=6964800&hilit=Driver#p6964800
Cruise wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:32 am My wife and I had drivers who we separately have used when we traveled to two cities. Nice to have a trusted resource. Recently started using Carey Car Service, which came highly recommended. Expensive, but vetted.

DH had started doing a lot of business travel, and lots of runs to/from the airport, mostly in a few specific towns, especially NYC and LA. This was on expense account, and his University had an account with a service in NYC. It was affiliated with other services in other cities.

It also saved on parking, and it wasn't as expensive, on the airport runs, as we had expected.
For "driving around town", which includes waiting time, that meter keeps ticking away.

For our local airport, we soon identified one much-preferred driver, and a couple of "next choice", in terms of their demeanor and driving skill/care. The service had that on our account, and the earlier we made a reservation, the more likely we were to get "them".
Over time, we also found a few who were on the "Do NOT use for us!" list, and that was honored.

However, depending upon just what type of security one desires/needs, this alone can make a difference. Having a "driver" waiting for you, so you don't need to "hang around" waiting for a taxi or even for another driver to show up offers a level os security. Likewise, not needing to walk back and forth to some parking area, which may change all the time, etc., provides some security.
Sometimes "conveniece" and "security" overlap.

It matters in part (a great part!) whether you (or a family member) is a specific *target* or if you are more concerned about being a "victim of opportunity", being in the wrong place at the wrong time, etc.
For someone who is/may be an actual target due to identity and perhaps general recognizeability (and not simply due to wearing a bunch of Rolex watches or lots of sparkly things), that's a different level, and one may well want to be "accompanied" almost everywhere that is public.

You could call one or two of the more prominent "car services" and see what different levels of 'service" they offer, or who they would recommend if, for example, you wanted an armed driver or second escort and they didn't offer that.
Asking the police department might be useful, but we aren't in "the big city itself" of our major metro area, so things are relatively friedly and less hectic. They may have suggestions about services (although they may not be able to make specific recommendations about outside companies?), and they may also tell you about what their off-duty officers can provide, as mentioned above.
Even the "big money" doesn't always use "uniformed escorts":
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/a ... useum.html

The professionals may also help you think through which levels of services you/family members need at different times of purposes.
In some situations, you may not need an armed driver/agent, but you also might *not* want someone in a crisp uniform (which might draw extra attention), vs just a nice jacket and tie (if male, or perhaps also female; not sure what the dress codes are these days).

Again, speak with some professionals/agencies and learn a bit from them, and then ask more questions if things come to mind.

"Being safe" and "feeling safe" are both important.

RM
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by Cruise »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:51 pm For the urbanites Bogleheads among us, I’d appreciate your thoughts on when and under what circumstances and net worth levels it makes sense to use a personal security person and driver for routine shorter and longer day trips.

...

Does one have to hire them with an annual salary or can it be ad hoc? I’ve never looked into this before so I don’t know what is customary. Is there a customary hourly rate range? Is there a recommended process (checking references etc) other than word of mouth?
You might want to check with Gavin DeBecker's group if you want security: https://gdba.com/
GmanJeff wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:38 pm Security of all types, including executive/personal protection, should be based on a threat assessment. The nature of the threat should drive the countermeasure(s) selected, along with cost and other considerations, e.g., convenience and practicality. Bodyguards, armed or unarmed, are a particular type of countermeasure which may or may not be the most appropriate under given circumstances, and would likely be just one element of a multi-layered protection strategy. A security driver trained in countersurveillance and evasive driving might use an armored vehicle, for example, and might be supplemented by additional protection staff who do not have driving responsibilities but who accompany the protectee outside the vehicle.

Personal protection is available through private security companies, and sometimes through police/sheriff's departments which allow their employees to take such roles to supplement their full-time government employment. Sworn police officers cost more than individuals who are unarmed or who are armed private security without law enforcement powers. Sworn officers are paid hourly; non-police private security staff can be hired directly on an hourly or annual basis. Costs vary geographically, and with the level of training required, e.g., former military, former law enforcement, current law enforcement working part-time, with or without medical training. Armed personnel cost more than unarmed staff.

For people not under particular threat, behavioral changes would likely make more sense and be much more cost effective than hiring personal security: Don't use more risky modes of transportation, don't go into higher crime areas, don't appear vulnerable or otherwise attractive as a target (e.g., don't wear seemingly or actually expensive jewelry), don't go places alone if uncomfortable, relocate away from, and don't travel to or in, environments where crime is such a concern that you'd consider needing a bodyguard. Residential security should be considered, i.e., alarms, lighting, locks, not opening the door to unknown visitors. etc.
Gman knows what he is talking about. Great summary of the issues.

OP, if you have the financial resources. go for it. Find a GD&A-type agency in your area, and have them on-call.
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by BolderBoy »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:51 pmI’d appreciate any suggestions.
Why not obtain a concealed carry permit (to take care of the personal security part yourself) and simply use a Lyft or Uber for the driver part?
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by SuzBanyan »

BolderBoy wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:57 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:51 pmI’d appreciate any suggestions.
Why not obtain a concealed carry permit (to take care of the personal security part yourself) and simply use a Lyft or Uber for the driver part?
I’m not sure that most elderly family members who are no longer able to drive should be getting (and using) a concealed carry permit.
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by Mr. Rumples »

Regarding references, in VA they have to be licensed. My guess is it's the same elsewhere.
https://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/licensure ... y-services

A personal security specialist requirements (select from the column on the right):
https://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/licensure ... individual

They undergo a full criminal history check as well as other screening including fingerprinting. Law enforcement may moonlight, but they still have to be licensed.
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by lthenderson »

I have hired many a driver but always overseas and in mostly what we would consider third world countries. It helps me to avoid being shaken down by crooked law enforcement at tree branch and old tire road blocks if a local is doing the driving and I'm in the back behind tinted windows. I also like it because it allows me the freedom to look around and gawk instead of being focused on the wild driving conditions in front of me. But I will probably never consider it here stateside unless I'm a safety hazard to be doing my own driving.
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

I think there are a number of options and a number of things that would need checking up on.

Former Police officer driver: My first thought is whether this police officer is properly insured to drive others for pay. I actually checked into this for one of my sons who wanted to do Uber type stuff. Commercial insurance is required and there are a couple ways to get it according to my insurance agent. The cheapest way tripled the insurance cost which threw that out the window for us as the increase was $4000 a year and when including taxes that would need to be paid along with payroll tax, my son wouldn't make a dime if he drove 40 hours a week.

Here's the downside. If the officer is not insured and gets into an accident hurting you, his car insurance will go to state mandated minimum. My insurance agent explained to me that this is a total of $5000 for any accident. So even if nobody else was involved......say the car hit a deer.....if you went to the hospital and had $50k in hospital bills, his insurance would only pay $5k total.

Uber: Note the above. Supposedly Uber has insurance but in looking for my son, I found that they are like Hyundai. They find or make up excuses so they don't pay anything.

Taxi: A taxi company will have insurance mandated by the state and the taxi will be a commercial vehicle, properly tagged that way.

Limo companies: Now, this is something I have used to get to and from the airport. I request their smallest car for only me. This has been a Cadillac sedan in all instances. Not a fancy car by any means, but nice and always driven by a well dressed (your could call uniformed) driver who knows the area really well. The company and driver are properly insured and licensed (chauffer's license). Cost is more than an Uber but the car is much nicer and I've made appointments 6 months in advance and at 6am on that morning I need to catch a flight, the car is waiting in my driveway. This would be my recommendation.
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by UpperNwGuy »

I am an ancient urbanite, too, and I find Uber and Lyft to be quite adequate to get safely from place to place.
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:31 pm I think there are a number of options and a number of things that would need checking up on.

Former Police officer driver: My first thought is whether this police officer is properly insured to drive others for pay. I actually checked into this for one of my sons who wanted to do Uber type stuff. Commercial insurance is required and there are a couple ways to get it according to my insurance agent. The cheapest way tripled the insurance cost which threw that out the window for us as the increase was $4000 a year and when including taxes that would need to be paid along with payroll tax, my son wouldn't make a dime if he drove 40 hours a week.

Here's the downside. If the officer is not insured and gets into an accident hurting you, his car insurance will go to state mandated minimum. My insurance agent explained to me that this is a total of $5000 for any accident. So even if nobody else was involved......say the car hit a deer.....if you went to the hospital and had $50k in hospital bills, his insurance would only pay $5k total.

Uber: Note the above. Supposedly Uber has insurance but in looking for my son, I found that they are like Hyundai. They find or make up excuses so they don't pay anything.

Taxi: A taxi company will have insurance mandated by the state and the taxi will be a commercial vehicle, properly tagged that way.

Limo companies: Now, this is something I have used to get to and from the airport. I request their smallest car for only me. This has been a Cadillac sedan in all instances. Not a fancy car by any means, but nice and always driven by a well dressed (your could call uniformed) driver who knows the area really well. The company and driver are properly insured and licensed (chauffer's license). Cost is more than an Uber but the car is much nicer and I've made appointments 6 months in advance and at 6am on that morning I need to catch a flight, the car is waiting in my driveway. This would be my recommendation.
This sounds good. Thank you.
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by Damocles »

GmanJeff wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:38 pm Security of all types, including executive/personal protection, should be based on a threat assessment. The nature of the threat should drive the countermeasure(s) selected, along with cost and other considerations, e.g., convenience and practicality. Bodyguards, armed or unarmed, are a particular type of countermeasure which may or may not be the most appropriate under given circumstances, and would likely be just one element of a multi-layered protection strategy. A security driver trained in countersurveillance and evasive driving might use an armored vehicle, for example, and might be supplemented by additional protection staff who do not have driving responsibilities but who accompany the protectee outside the vehicle.

Personal protection is available through private security companies, and sometimes through police/sheriff's departments which allow their employees to take such roles to supplement their full-time government employment. Sworn police officers cost more than individuals who are unarmed or who are armed private security without law enforcement powers. Sworn officers are paid hourly; non-police private security staff can be hired directly on an hourly or annual basis. Costs vary geographically, and with the level of training required, e.g., former military, former law enforcement, current law enforcement working part-time, with or without medical training. Armed personnel cost more than unarmed staff.

For people not under particular threat, behavioral changes would likely make more sense and be much more cost effective than hiring personal security: Don't use more risky modes of transportation, don't go into higher crime areas, don't appear vulnerable or otherwise attractive as a target (e.g., don't wear seemingly or actually expensive jewelry), don't go places alone if uncomfortable, relocate away from, and don't travel to or in, environments where crime is such a concern that you'd consider needing a bodyguard. Residential security should be considered, i.e., alarms, lighting, locks, not opening the door to unknown visitors. etc.
+1 to this. Every RSO I've worked with would also add - vary your routes and times.

Before I would hire a driver, I'd attend a professional evasive driving course:

https://summitpointtraining.com/trainin ... ourse-edc/
HaveaNiceDay
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by HaveaNiceDay »

I have hired off duty officers a very few times to get one of my daughters somewhere when I was concerned about factors of attending an event.

It varies by department, but often you just call the local Police Dept/Sherriff's office and ask to speak to who handles secondary employment. They will put you to probably a sergeant who coordinates with local businesses to use off duty officers for jobs. The officers work "secondary" on their own terms. I simply described that I needed a driver for my daughter to and from an event and that he/she could use my daughters car or theirs. The sergeant suggest a range of hourly pay that would get some interest in the assignment. I asked him to put the word out and within a few hours he called back and provided the name and bio of two officers who were available and interested. I agreed and the officer reached out to my daughter direct for the details. The officers only real concern is that my daughter was not doing anything illegal and he said he was basically on duty all the time and if she was hiring him to go yell at an old boyfriend or something, he could not help. Once she assured him it was just travel to and from and personal security type work, it was easy. She paid him when he got her home, it was very simple. He also knew the security at the event as many were other off duty cops so that really made it smooth for her. Another time, the same officer was working so she used a female officer the sergeant had recommended, and that worked very well also.

My suggestion if you are considering this is to talk to the local agency you are considering and get the particulars.
Please excuse the typos, it is my way of showing the post is authentic....
sc9182
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by sc9182 »

Wow - all kinds of needs, and good suggestions.

Never knew such needs existed for individuals but, it helps to gain such knowledge. Along similar lines - do, normal folks have/retain "personal civil/family/criminal/tax" Lawyers" too ?

Guess Super-rich-folks hire Lobbyists among other things ..
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AnnetteLouisan
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Damocles wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:41 pm
GmanJeff wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:38 pm Security of all types, including executive/personal protection, should be based on a threat assessment. The nature of the threat should drive the countermeasure(s) selected, along with cost and other considerations, e.g., convenience and practicality. Bodyguards, armed or unarmed, are a particular type of countermeasure which may or may not be the most appropriate under given circumstances, and would likely be just one element of a multi-layered protection strategy. A security driver trained in countersurveillance and evasive driving might use an armored vehicle, for example, and might be supplemented by additional protection staff who do not have driving responsibilities but who accompany the protectee outside the vehicle.

Personal protection is available through private security companies, and sometimes through police/sheriff's departments which allow their employees to take such roles to supplement their full-time government employment. Sworn police officers cost more than individuals who are unarmed or who are armed private security without law enforcement powers. Sworn officers are paid hourly; non-police private security staff can be hired directly on an hourly or annual basis. Costs vary geographically, and with the level of training required, e.g., former military, former law enforcement, current law enforcement working part-time, with or without medical training. Armed personnel cost more than unarmed staff.

For people not under particular threat, behavioral changes would likely make more sense and be much more cost effective than hiring personal security: Don't use more risky modes of transportation, don't go into higher crime areas, don't appear vulnerable or otherwise attractive as a target (e.g., don't wear seemingly or actually expensive jewelry), don't go places alone if uncomfortable, relocate away from, and don't travel to or in, environments where crime is such a concern that you'd consider needing a bodyguard. Residential security should be considered, i.e., alarms, lighting, locks, not opening the door to unknown visitors. etc.
+1 to this. Every RSO I've worked with would also add - vary your routes and times.

Before I would hire a driver, I'd attend a professional evasive driving course:

https://summitpointtraining.com/trainin ... ourse-edc/
“Serpentine” comes to mind… anyone get that movie reference?

This thread got a bit more serious than I intended. I’m not particularly a target, paranoid or terrorized, but street conditions seem less predictable today whether it’s motorized scooters, impaired drivers, bicyclist groups, or even carjackers.

My main point is with the boomer retirement wave there seem to be a lot of talented professionals looking to make a few extra bucks driving and it seemed like a nice perk if they have cool additional skills. It might be that retired EMS could be even more practical than retired police or fire for the elderly. Wouldn’t that be a nice gift for elderly parents? A driver who can also do emergency assist if needed?

Just thinking outside the box here and also it’s a way to keep them engaged.
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Damocles
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by Damocles »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:27 pm “Serpentine” comes to mind… anyone get that movie reference?
I just know it from Generation Kill... ;)
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AnnetteLouisan
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Damocles wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:36 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:27 pm “Serpentine” comes to mind… anyone get that movie reference?
I just know it from Generation Kill... ;)
I know it from an old Mel Brooks movie.

As far as Uber, my understanding is it’s a new driver each time. That seems a bit riskier than going with the the same driver or drivers. Also it’s more pleasant to travel when there is mutual loyalty and rapport (ie, if you tip well, why not benefit?)
Cruise
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by Cruise »

HaveaNiceDay wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:32 pm I have hired off duty officers a very few times to get one of my daughters somewhere when I was concerned about factors of attending an event.

It varies by department, but often you just call the local Police Dept/Sherriff's office and ask to speak to who handles secondary employment. They will put you to probably a sergeant who coordinates with local businesses to use off duty officers for jobs. The officers work "secondary" on their own terms. I simply described that I needed a driver for my daughter to and from an event and that he/she could use my daughters car or theirs. The sergeant suggest a range of hourly pay that would get some interest in the assignment. I asked him to put the word out and within a few hours he called back and provided the name and bio of two officers who were available and interested. I agreed and the officer reached out to my daughter direct for the details. The officers only real concern is that my daughter was not doing anything illegal and he said he was basically on duty all the time and if she was hiring him to go yell at an old boyfriend or something, he could not help. Once she assured him it was just travel to and from and personal security type work, it was easy. She paid him when he got her home, it was very simple. He also knew the security at the event as many were other off duty cops so that really made it smooth for her. Another time, the same officer was working so she used a female officer the sergeant had recommended, and that worked very well also.

My suggestion if you are considering this is to talk to the local agency you are considering and get the particulars.
There probably is a lot of variation by departments. My city's department has a whole section designed to process requests, register those requesting, find an officer who is interested, and collect payments. This department prohibits personal security work. Of interest, they will provide security for cars (LOL, I hired them to police a parking lot where kids who attended my niece's graduation party parked their cars.)
Broken Man 1999
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:10 pm Basically my thought was, a driver is very convenient if one is avoiding public transportation and one who is also a former uniformed professional is a nice added touch given higher crime rates lately. Recent experience of drivers who happened to be recently retired firefighters and police officers in their 50s gave me the idea.

I don’t think I’m a particular target more than anyone else, but I and my family can’t avoid going to higher crime areas since the areas where we all live and work have now become much higher crime, so why not go with a vetted and professional driver than some ad hoc uber, Lyft or cab driver.

Also it’s a nice way to give back to deserving retirees who still want to be active and earn some extra money.
Where you work you might have little choice, but given your shared finances you most definitely don't need to live in an area of increasing crime.

Having said that, how do you know crime is increasing in your living area; is the info data driven or anecdotal? Given the attention about crime by the media, I dare say many people would believe they are living in a crime ridden area, when they are living in an area safer than years ago. You might be pleasantly surprised if you aren't using hard data to make your determination.

Good luck!

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
ekid
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by ekid »

I drive the Amish around, sometimes interstate. Not NYC.

No insurance. Don't make much money but they feed me.
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Rob5TCP
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by Rob5TCP »

I've used car services when I go to the airport and didn't want to leave my car at JFK for 2-3 weeks. Carmel used to be reliable but I've stopped using them. I have used one guy for a couple of years (gave away my car at the begining of the pandemic) and he has been quite reliable.
As far as Yelp - here are several reviews:

Carmel - 2200 review but not great
https://www.yelp.com/biz/carmel-car-and ... ar+service

Dial 7 about the same
https://www.yelp.com/biz/dial-7-car-and ... ar+service

Have not used Wiro but the reviews seem great
https://www.yelp.com/biz/wirolimo-new-y ... ar+service
PeninsulaPerson
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Re: Personal Security / Driver

Post by PeninsulaPerson »

Rob5TCP wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:17 pm
Carmel used to be reliable but I've stopped using them.

Agreed about Carmel - in NYC anyway. My husband used to use them all the time and rave about them but they seem terrible now, post-Covid and post-Uber.

As to having a driver on retainer on an "annual salary," dunno' - that could add up unless one is using that driver a lot! I do know people both in our area and in NYC who have a driver they use regularly but that driver is not exclusive to them. But well-respected local drivers are around.

Good luck, Annette Louisan, and I hope you will report in with what you find.
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