BMW 330e and other PHEVs

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MtnTravel
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BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by MtnTravel »

We have been going back and forth between full electric, regular gas, and PHEV. It seems that PHEV strikes the perfect balance. Most of our driving is under 20 miles round trip which would keep us well within the range of the newer PHEV electric motors, and I wouldn’t need to spend the money to install a new outlet in the garage.

I am specifically interested in a slightly pre-owned BMW 330e. It charges fully overnight from a standard wall outlet, and the 3-series is highly rated. It’s also available (unlike the prime, or some of the other PHEVs).

Any bogleheads have experience with this particular model?

Any other PHEVs we should look at? (Volvo is compelling, but at prices around 70k I’m not interested; would love a RAV-4 prime, but impossible to get).

With kids, safety is VERY important to us. The 3 series have excellent safety ratings, but in the “real world” are they going to be markedly more dangerous than a small SUV? Just the other day, someone in a lifted full-size pickup truck blew through a solid red light at about 40 miles an hour, almost hitting three cars. That scared the heck out of us, and put the safety issue in even more perspective.
MH2
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by MH2 »

MtnTravel wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:49 am We have been going back and forth between full electric, regular gas, and PHEV. It seems that PHEV strikes the perfect balance. Most of our driving is under 20 miles round trip which would keep us well within the range of the newer PHEV electric motors, and I wouldn’t need to spend the money to install a new outlet in the garage.

I am specifically interested in a slightly pre-owned BMW 330e. It charges fully overnight from a standard wall outlet, and the 3-series is highly rated. It’s also available (unlike the prime, or some of the other PHEVs).

Any bogleheads have experience with this particular model?

Any other PHEVs we should look at? (Volvo is compelling, but at prices around 70k I’m not interested; would love a RAV-4 prime, but impossible to get).

With kids, safety is VERY important to us. The 3 series have excellent safety ratings, but in the “real world” are they going to be markedly more dangerous than a small SUV? Just the other day, someone in a lifted full-size pickup truck blew through a solid red light at about 40 miles an hour, almost hitting three cars. That scared the heck out of us, and put the safety issue in even more perspective.
Perfectly fine car. We were looking at buying a G21 330e (estate/station wagon) version for a while as a replacement for my wife's car.

The B48 (4 cylinder gasoline) engine is bullet proof. The only issue with the car itself is that, in our market, they also offer an MHEV diesel lineup, which fits better for what we want.

As far as safety goes, the 330e is a relatively heavy car. I wouldn't worry about that.

Interior room for rear passengers and luggage capacity could be a different issue.
02nz
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by 02nz »

MtnTravel wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:49 am ... and I wouldn’t need to spend the money to install a new outlet in the garage.
While I agree a PHEV works well for your use case, getting an EV does not mean you need to install L2 charging. You can get 30-60 miles overnight on just L1 (regular 110V outlet), and that more than covers most drivers' needs, and the larger battery means it will work even for occasional longer drives. It's only when you consistently need all of the EV's range (without having enough time to charge up on L1 until the next time you need the full range) that you need to install L2.
Last edited by 02nz on Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
cmr79
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by cmr79 »

Is a 3 series big enough for your family with kids? I don't have any experience with it specifically--almost all thr PHEVs owned by my acquaintances are Volvo XC90s, which seem nice but perhaps bigger than we would actually need.

The 3 Series has very limited rear leg room which would make it difficult for a primary hauler for kids in car seats or older kids in our case. I ruled out the BMW i4 for similar reasons, though admittedly the rear seat seems to be even a touch smaller on that vs the 3 Series!
Topic Author
MtnTravel
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by MtnTravel »

MH2 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:08 am As far as safety goes, the 330e is a relatively heavy car. I wouldn't worry about that.

Interior room for rear passengers and luggage capacity could be a different issue.
I take the safety ratings with a grain of salt. The Subaru Outback is rated as a Top Safety Pick + by IIHS, but when you look at the actual crash test results, it gets a lot of “Acceptable” ratings whereas many non TPS+ cars are rated “Good.” It seems like IIHS is more obsessed with headlights than anything else, and there’s no rhyme or reason to the ratings. I get the impression that some car manufacturers “teach to the test” so they hit the check boxes that get them the TSP+ rating.

I know the 330e is heavier, and the 3 series is incredibly popular in Europe, but in the US where so many people are driving absurdly huge vehicles, I’d just be worried about how it would perform if it got t-boned a full-size pickup truck or SUV.

You are correct that space is also an issue. I think it would be fine for a couple kids, but kids and dogs are a no go. Thankfully most of my driving is just around the city, and we have a small SUV we can use for the dogs and dogs/kids.
Topic Author
MtnTravel
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by MtnTravel »

cmr79 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:25 am Is a 3 series big enough for your family with kids? I don't have any experience with it specifically--almost all thr PHEVs owned by my acquaintances are Volvo XC90s, which seem nice but perhaps bigger than we would actually need.

The 3 Series has very limited rear leg room which would make it difficult for a primary hauler for kids in car seats or older kids in our case. I ruled out the BMW i4 for similar reasons, though admittedly the rear seat seems to be even a touch smaller on that vs the 3 Series!
It would be a challenge to downsize to a sedan from a small SUV. I like the XC90, but the prices are insane for the PHEV models. They are starting at $80k+, which I just can’t justify. Regular cars get dinged up enough with kids, dogs, and inconsiderate people opening their doors in parking lots or hitting cars with shopping carts… I just can’t stomach paying $80k for a vehicle.
cmr79
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by cmr79 »

MtnTravel wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:37 am
cmr79 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:25 am Is a 3 series big enough for your family with kids? I don't have any experience with it specifically--almost all thr PHEVs owned by my acquaintances are Volvo XC90s, which seem nice but perhaps bigger than we would actually need.

The 3 Series has very limited rear leg room which would make it difficult for a primary hauler for kids in car seats or older kids in our case. I ruled out the BMW i4 for similar reasons, though admittedly the rear seat seems to be even a touch smaller on that vs the 3 Series!
It would be a challenge to downsize to a sedan from a small SUV. I like the XC90, but the prices are insane for the PHEV models. They are starting at $80k+, which I just can’t justify. Regular cars get dinged up enough with kids, dogs, and inconsiderate people opening their doors in parking lots or hitting cars with shopping carts… I just can’t stomach paying $80k for a vehicle.
I probably would look at the XC40 or XC60 if I were in the market for a PHEV rather than the 90...I don't need a third row, and it doesn't sound like you have any need for that kind of size either. Both are still more expensive than the 330e, but probably a lot more useable than the BMW and significantly cheaper than the XC90.

I keep gravitating towards Volvo given your focus on safety, but I assume you also looked at the BMW X5 PHEV and 530e sedan and didn't think they made sense for you? The limited electric range would dissuade me, and admittedly I'm not aware of real-world availability of any of these as used models.
CletusCaddy
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by CletusCaddy »

MtnTravel wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:37 am
cmr79 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:25 am Is a 3 series big enough for your family with kids? I don't have any experience with it specifically--almost all thr PHEVs owned by my acquaintances are Volvo XC90s, which seem nice but perhaps bigger than we would actually need.

The 3 Series has very limited rear leg room which would make it difficult for a primary hauler for kids in car seats or older kids in our case. I ruled out the BMW i4 for similar reasons, though admittedly the rear seat seems to be even a touch smaller on that vs the 3 Series!
It would be a challenge to downsize to a sedan from a small SUV. I like the XC90, but the prices are insane for the PHEV models. They are starting at $80k+, which I just can’t justify. Regular cars get dinged up enough with kids, dogs, and inconsiderate people opening their doors in parking lots or hitting cars with shopping carts… I just can’t stomach paying $80k for a vehicle.
You’re not comparing apples to apples.

A 3 series is not comparable to an XC90.

XC40s do not go for $80k

Also, you can get a base model XC90 Recharge for $65k plus taxes
Journeyman510
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by Journeyman510 »

I just purchased a loaded CPO '20 530e. I've only had it for a few weeks so it is too early for me to have strong opinions about whether this was the right long term decision.

I wanted a car that was very comfortable for my 80 mile round trip commute. I wasn't convinced a Tesla model 3 would meet my needs in that department. Certainly the 5 series is very luxurious compared to the spartan tesla. I really value the driver assist capabilities and the HUD. I have the upgraded multi-contour vented seats with massage.

I wish it had more range. It's advertised as 21 miles but in reality it's more like 17.

Good luck.
Typ997S
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by Typ997S »

I have a 2022 530e bought new a year ago. Essentially the same powertrain with a bit larger body. I've been very happy with it, no issues other than a nasty pothole taking out a tire!
RJC
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by RJC »

We have the 22 X5 45e. It's a great car for a small family with enough electric miles (~32) that we do not have to get gas for months at a time.

I think it's the best PHEV SUV out right now.
Journeyman510
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by Journeyman510 »

Typ997S wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:42 pm I have a 2022 530e bought new a year ago. Essentially the same powertrain with a bit larger body. I've been very happy with it, no issues other than a nasty pothole taking out a tire!
What kind of range are you getting with your 530e?
yosh99
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by yosh99 »

I've had an Audi Q5e PHEV for a little over two years now. The battery is good for about 25 miles before the ICE kicks in, but I rarely drive more than that during the day. I installed a Type 2 charger at home and it takes about 2 hours for it to charge up. For all practical purposes, it's a total EV for me. I doubt I've put more than a dozen tanks of gasoline in two years.

I cross shopped with the BMW X5 and Volvo XC60 PHEV's and chose the Audi because I thought it had a better all wheel drive system for traction on ice than the others. The only downside to the Audi so far has been the lack of sophistication and reliability of the software, but I don't think any of the German manufacturers are good at this.
idc
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by idc »

Consider Audi Q5 PHEV as well. Might be a good fit with family and similar, if not higher range than the 330e.
Very happy with it. I think the first generation is coming off lease these days.
Topic Author
MtnTravel
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by MtnTravel »

CletusCaddy wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:54 am
MtnTravel wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:37 am
cmr79 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:25 am Is a 3 series big enough for your family with kids? I don't have any experience with it specifically--almost all thr PHEVs owned by my acquaintances are Volvo XC90s, which seem nice but perhaps bigger than we would actually need.

The 3 Series has very limited rear leg room which would make it difficult for a primary hauler for kids in car seats or older kids in our case. I ruled out the BMW i4 for similar reasons, though admittedly the rear seat seems to be even a touch smaller on that vs the 3 Series!
It would be a challenge to downsize to a sedan from a small SUV. I like the XC90, but the prices are insane for the PHEV models. They are starting at $80k+, which I just can’t justify. Regular cars get dinged up enough with kids, dogs, and inconsiderate people opening their doors in parking lots or hitting cars with shopping carts… I just can’t stomach paying $80k for a vehicle.
You’re not comparing apples to apples.

A 3 series is not comparable to an XC90.

XC40s do not go for $80k

Also, you can get a base model XC90 Recharge for $65k plus taxes
PHEV XC90s definitely do go for 80k and above once the dealers get done optioning them up, and they aren’t ordering base models. Even then, the base XC90 recharge starts at $71,900, according to Volvo.

I have not seen a PHEV XC40, only fully electric, and those are creeping north of 60k, which means they cost more than a Tesla and have worse range.
Topic Author
MtnTravel
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by MtnTravel »

RJC wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:31 pm We have the 22 X5 45e. It's a great car for a small family with enough electric miles (~32) that we do not have to get gas for months at a time.

I think it's the best PHEV SUV out right now.
The X5 is a bit bigger than we want/can fit in the garage, but I’d love a PHEV X3
CletusCaddy
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by CletusCaddy »

MtnTravel wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:32 am
CletusCaddy wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:54 am
MtnTravel wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:37 am
cmr79 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:25 am Is a 3 series big enough for your family with kids? I don't have any experience with it specifically--almost all thr PHEVs owned by my acquaintances are Volvo XC90s, which seem nice but perhaps bigger than we would actually need.

The 3 Series has very limited rear leg room which would make it difficult for a primary hauler for kids in car seats or older kids in our case. I ruled out the BMW i4 for similar reasons, though admittedly the rear seat seems to be even a touch smaller on that vs the 3 Series!
It would be a challenge to downsize to a sedan from a small SUV. I like the XC90, but the prices are insane for the PHEV models. They are starting at $80k+, which I just can’t justify. Regular cars get dinged up enough with kids, dogs, and inconsiderate people opening their doors in parking lots or hitting cars with shopping carts… I just can’t stomach paying $80k for a vehicle.
You’re not comparing apples to apples.

A 3 series is not comparable to an XC90.

XC40s do not go for $80k

Also, you can get a base model XC90 Recharge for $65k plus taxes
PHEV XC90s definitely do go for 80k and above once the dealers get done optioning them up, and they aren’t ordering base models. Even then, the base XC90 recharge starts at $71,900, according to Volvo.
The cheapest XC90 Recharge I can find in my area is $74,200 MSRP.

$74,200 MSRP
-$4,000 dealer discount
-$7,500 EV pass through lease credit
+$1,500 lease buyout fees
= $64,200 + tax

The dealer discount is middle of the road, not high not low. If you aren’t successful negotiating just work with a broker on leasehackr.
MtnTravel wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:33 am
RJC wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:31 pm We have the 22 X5 45e. It's a great car for a small family with enough electric miles (~32) that we do not have to get gas for months at a time.

I think it's the best PHEV SUV out right now.
The X5 is a bit bigger than we want/can fit in the garage, but I’d love a PHEV X3
You can’t fit an X5 but you can fit an XC90? :confused
This is the most confusing car thread ever…
cmr79
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by cmr79 »

MtnTravel wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:32 am
CletusCaddy wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:54 am
MtnTravel wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:37 am
cmr79 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:25 am Is a 3 series big enough for your family with kids? I don't have any experience with it specifically--almost all thr PHEVs owned by my acquaintances are Volvo XC90s, which seem nice but perhaps bigger than we would actually need.

The 3 Series has very limited rear leg room which would make it difficult for a primary hauler for kids in car seats or older kids in our case. I ruled out the BMW i4 for similar reasons, though admittedly the rear seat seems to be even a touch smaller on that vs the 3 Series!
It would be a challenge to downsize to a sedan from a small SUV. I like the XC90, but the prices are insane for the PHEV models. They are starting at $80k+, which I just can’t justify. Regular cars get dinged up enough with kids, dogs, and inconsiderate people opening their doors in parking lots or hitting cars with shopping carts… I just can’t stomach paying $80k for a vehicle.
You’re not comparing apples to apples.

A 3 series is not comparable to an XC90.

XC40s do not go for $80k

Also, you can get a base model XC90 Recharge for $65k plus taxes
PHEV XC90s definitely do go for 80k and above once the dealers get done optioning them up, and they aren’t ordering base models. Even then, the base XC90 recharge starts at $71,900, according to Volvo.

I have not seen a PHEV XC40, only fully electric, and those are creeping north of 60k, which means they cost more than a Tesla and have worse range.
The XC40 PHEV is called the "T5 Twin Engine" (terrible nomenclature since the fully electric XC40 Recharge is also called "twin motor") and has been produced since 2019, though it is no longer offered in the US. I have no idea what the used market looks like for these.
cmr79
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by cmr79 »

CletusCaddy wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:49 am
MtnTravel wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:32 am
CletusCaddy wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:54 am
MtnTravel wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:37 am
cmr79 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:25 am Is a 3 series big enough for your family with kids? I don't have any experience with it specifically--almost all thr PHEVs owned by my acquaintances are Volvo XC90s, which seem nice but perhaps bigger than we would actually need.

The 3 Series has very limited rear leg room which would make it difficult for a primary hauler for kids in car seats or older kids in our case. I ruled out the BMW i4 for similar reasons, though admittedly the rear seat seems to be even a touch smaller on that vs the 3 Series!
It would be a challenge to downsize to a sedan from a small SUV. I like the XC90, but the prices are insane for the PHEV models. They are starting at $80k+, which I just can’t justify. Regular cars get dinged up enough with kids, dogs, and inconsiderate people opening their doors in parking lots or hitting cars with shopping carts… I just can’t stomach paying $80k for a vehicle.
You’re not comparing apples to apples.

A 3 series is not comparable to an XC90.

XC40s do not go for $80k

Also, you can get a base model XC90 Recharge for $65k plus taxes
PHEV XC90s definitely do go for 80k and above once the dealers get done optioning them up, and they aren’t ordering base models. Even then, the base XC90 recharge starts at $71,900, according to Volvo.
The cheapest XC90 Recharge I can find in my area is $74,200 MSRP.

$74,200 MSRP
-$4,000 dealer discount
-$7,500 EV pass through lease credit
+$1,500 lease buyout fees
= $64,200 + tax

The dealer discount is middle of the road, not high not low. If you aren’t successful negotiating just work with a broker on leasehackr.
MtnTravel wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:33 am
RJC wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:31 pm We have the 22 X5 45e. It's a great car for a small family with enough electric miles (~32) that we do not have to get gas for months at a time.

I think it's the best PHEV SUV out right now.
The X5 is a bit bigger than we want/can fit in the garage, but I’d love a PHEV X3
You can’t fit an X5 but you can fit an XC90? :confused
This is the most confusing car thread ever…
I don't think OP ever said they were interested in the XC90...I had mentioned that this was the most popular PHEV among my acquaintances but that it was probably too large for OP's needs, and OP responded that it was too expensive. My fault for inadvertently derailing the thread with a vehicle OP is not considering.
Topic Author
MtnTravel
Posts: 366
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by MtnTravel »

cmr79 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:53 am
CletusCaddy wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:49 am
MtnTravel wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:32 am
CletusCaddy wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:54 am
MtnTravel wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:37 am

It would be a challenge to downsize to a sedan from a small SUV. I like the XC90, but the prices are insane for the PHEV models. They are starting at $80k+, which I just can’t justify. Regular cars get dinged up enough with kids, dogs, and inconsiderate people opening their doors in parking lots or hitting cars with shopping carts… I just can’t stomach paying $80k for a vehicle.
You’re not comparing apples to apples.

A 3 series is not comparable to an XC90.

XC40s do not go for $80k

Also, you can get a base model XC90 Recharge for $65k plus taxes
PHEV XC90s definitely do go for 80k and above once the dealers get done optioning them up, and they aren’t ordering base models. Even then, the base XC90 recharge starts at $71,900, according to Volvo.
The cheapest XC90 Recharge I can find in my area is $74,200 MSRP.

$74,200 MSRP
-$4,000 dealer discount
-$7,500 EV pass through lease credit
+$1,500 lease buyout fees
= $64,200 + tax

The dealer discount is middle of the road, not high not low. If you aren’t successful negotiating just work with a broker on leasehackr.
MtnTravel wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:33 am
RJC wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:31 pm We have the 22 X5 45e. It's a great car for a small family with enough electric miles (~32) that we do not have to get gas for months at a time.

I think it's the best PHEV SUV out right now.
The X5 is a bit bigger than we want/can fit in the garage, but I’d love a PHEV X3
You can’t fit an X5 but you can fit an XC90? :confused
This is the most confusing car thread ever…
I don't think OP ever said they were interested in the XC90...I had mentioned that this was the most popular PHEV among my acquaintances but that it was probably too large for OP's needs, and OP responded that it was too expensive. My fault for inadvertently derailing the thread with a vehicle OP is not considering.
Cmr79 is correct, I think someone assumed I meant XC90 when I mentioned Volvo. This thread did get confusing! :D I’m not looking for an XC90 or X5 sized SUV because we can’t fit that (with another SUV) in our garage. X3 or XC60 are more around the size we’re looking for, but also considering a sedan.
MH2
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by MH2 »

I'll throw this out of left field. Why not a station wagon?

It looks like Volvo sells their V60 PHEV in the US as the V60 Recharge. Would be a good compromise between a 330e sedan and an XC60.
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ray.james
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by ray.james »

I have a Honda clarity. The winter ranges drop more than you expect. In summer I get around 48 miles and in winter 35-40 miles. And I live in SF Bay area.

I have owned a phev for 5 years now. If I had to do again, I would have gone full electric or a hybrid. The Phev ain't bad but it feels like a nitpick optimization on hybrid. Given the range and daily charging, it is an optimization on hybrid for not much benefit in California.
When in doubt, http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79939
Valuethinker
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by Valuethinker »

MtnTravel wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:49 am We have been going back and forth between full electric, regular gas, and PHEV. It seems that PHEV strikes the perfect balance. Most of our driving is under 20 miles round trip which would keep us well within the range of the newer PHEV electric motors, and I wouldn’t need to spend the money to install a new outlet in the garage.

I am specifically interested in a slightly pre-owned BMW 330e. It charges fully overnight from a standard wall outlet, and the 3-series is highly rated. It’s also available (unlike the prime, or some of the other PHEVs).

Any bogleheads have experience with this particular model?

Any other PHEVs we should look at? (Volvo is compelling, but at prices around 70k I’m not interested; would love a RAV-4 prime, but impossible to get).

With kids, safety is VERY important to us. The 3 series have excellent safety ratings, but in the “real world” are they going to be markedly more dangerous than a small SUV? Just the other day, someone in a lifted full-size pickup truck blew through a solid red light at about 40 miles an hour, almost hitting three cars. That scared the heck out of us, and put the safety issue in even more perspective.
https://www.mitsubishicars.com/cars-and ... ev/gallery

is that too small?
Topic Author
MtnTravel
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Re: BMW 330e and other PHEVs

Post by MtnTravel »

Valuethinker wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 4:12 am
MtnTravel wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:49 am We have been going back and forth between full electric, regular gas, and PHEV. It seems that PHEV strikes the perfect balance. Most of our driving is under 20 miles round trip which would keep us well within the range of the newer PHEV electric motors, and I wouldn’t need to spend the money to install a new outlet in the garage.

I am specifically interested in a slightly pre-owned BMW 330e. It charges fully overnight from a standard wall outlet, and the 3-series is highly rated. It’s also available (unlike the prime, or some of the other PHEVs).

Any bogleheads have experience with this particular model?

Any other PHEVs we should look at? (Volvo is compelling, but at prices around 70k I’m not interested; would love a RAV-4 prime, but impossible to get).

With kids, safety is VERY important to us. The 3 series have excellent safety ratings, but in the “real world” are they going to be markedly more dangerous than a small SUV? Just the other day, someone in a lifted full-size pickup truck blew through a solid red light at about 40 miles an hour, almost hitting three cars. That scared the heck out of us, and put the safety issue in even more perspective.
https://www.mitsubishicars.com/cars-and ... ev/gallery

is that too small?
Mitsubishis have historically had terrible crash test results so they aren’t even on my radar unfortunately. Looks like they’ve gotten better, but I just can’t get past their prior reputation, as unfair as that may be.
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