I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

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Shooting4Sixty
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I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Shooting4Sixty »

I finally took the steps to transfer my e jones accounts to fidelity!

I now have the following Traditional IRA/Rolledover Acct holdings to figure out what to do with.

FUND NAME - % OF ACCT
AWSHX AMERICAN WASHNTN MUTUAL INVESTRS CL A - 22%

AGTHX AMERICAN GROWTH FUND OF AMERICA CLASS A - 18%

SMCWX AMERICAN SMALL CAP WORLD CLASS A - 14%

ABNDX AMERICAN BOND FUND OF AMERICA CLASS A - 13%

ANWPX AMERICAN NEW PERSPECTIVE CLASS A - 13%

CWGIX AMERICAN CAPITAL WORLD GRTH & INC A - 10%

LGMAX LOOMIS SAYLES GLOBAL ALLOCATION CLASS A - 4%

AHITX AMERICAN HIGH INCOME TRUST CLASS A - 4%

NEWFX AMERICAN NEW WORLD FUND CLASS A - 2%

This is the breakdown I got from Fidelity
Domestic Stock 52%
Foreign Stock 24%
Bonds 17%
Short Term 6%

The last jones statement shows a return of ~5.5% over the last 5 years while the SP500 returned ~9.5% I'm not sure how to get back more than 5 years on my account history from jones but it seems like I should be doing closer to the index.

I also have a Roth 401 k at work with all Vanguard SP500 index worth about 1/4 of the above holdings at fidelity. And 6 -12 months emergency fund in cash and cds.

Im 42 and hope to have the choice to retire at 59 1/2.

I've now read boglehaeds guide to investing and have a good understanding of the very basics. How To Make Your Money Last: The Indispensable Retirement Guide is in the mail.

I'd like to continue my progress towards simplification.

Do any of you have some pointers on how I can make educated choices on what to do with my old jones acct holdings?

I'm aware the expense ratios are way high but I've already paid my front load fees so does it make sense to keep the "good performing" american funds I have?

What yal think about a 85/15 equity/bonds mix for another 5+ years?

Thank you!
Last edited by Shooting4Sixty on Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Wiggums
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Wiggums »

Deleted
Last edited by Wiggums on Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wiggums
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Wiggums »

We hold the three fund portfolio.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-fund_portfolio

Just looking at the first fund in you list, the ER is Expense Ratio is 0.56%.
Last edited by Wiggums on Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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retired@50
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by retired@50 »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:15 pm I finally took the steps to transfer my e jones accounts to fidelity!

I now have the following holdings to figure out what to do with.

FUND NAME - % OF ACCT
AWSHX AMERICAN WASHNTN MUTUAL INVESTRS CL A - 22%

AGTHX AMERICAN GROWTH FUND OF AMERICA CLASS A - 18%

SMCWX AMERICAN SMALL CAP WORLD CLASS A - 14%

ABNDX AMERICAN BOND FUND OF AMERICA CLASS A - 13%

ANWPX AMERICAN NEW PERSPECTIVE CLASS A - 13%

CWGIX AMERICAN CAPITAL WORLD GRTH & INC A - 10%

LGMAX LOOMIS SAYLES GLOBAL ALLOCATION CLASS A - 4%

AHITX AMERICAN HIGH INCOME TRUST CLASS A - 4%

NEWFX AMERICAN NEW WORLD FUND CLASS A - 2%

Do any of you have some pointers on how I can make educated choices on what to do with my old jones acct holdings?
If the holdings above are in a taxable account, then you'll need to review the unrealized gains (or losses) on each fund. You'd likely want to pay attention to selling so you can exercise some control over the tax burden (if any) from selling them.

We have a wiki page called paying a tax cost to switch funds that should be helpful. The basic idea is to sell all the losers, and some of the gainers so your capital gains are either negative, near zero, or slightly positive. If you have high embedded gains, it may be beneficial to sell over the course of two or more tax years.

If the holdings are in an IRA, Roth, or other tax-protected account, then you can just sell them all immediately with no tax consequences and buy what you'd prefer.

Congrats on escaping EJ.

Regards,
Last edited by retired@50 on Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Wiggums
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Wiggums »

Duplicate
"I started with nothing and I still have most of it left."
Topic Author
Shooting4Sixty
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Shooting4Sixty »

I just edited my post. Its in a traditional IRA/Rolledover Acct
Last edited by Shooting4Sixty on Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
student
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by student »

Congratulations.
delamer
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by delamer »

The front loads for the funds shouldn’t play a role as to whether you keep the funds or not.

They are what economists call a “sunk cost.” That money is gone, so move on.

Congrats on leaving EJ.

If you are comfortable with 85% stocks, then consider putting the other 15% in cash equivalents (like short-term Treasuries). That will reduce the overall volatility of the portfolio.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
exodusNH
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by exodusNH »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:15 pm I finally took the steps to transfer my e jones accounts to fidelity!

I now have the following Traditional IRA/Rolledover Acct holdings to figure out what to do with.

FUND NAME - % OF ACCT
AWSHX AMERICAN WASHNTN MUTUAL INVESTRS CL A - 22%

AGTHX AMERICAN GROWTH FUND OF AMERICA CLASS A - 18%

SMCWX AMERICAN SMALL CAP WORLD CLASS A - 14%

ABNDX AMERICAN BOND FUND OF AMERICA CLASS A - 13%

ANWPX AMERICAN NEW PERSPECTIVE CLASS A - 13%

CWGIX AMERICAN CAPITAL WORLD GRTH & INC A - 10%

LGMAX LOOMIS SAYLES GLOBAL ALLOCATION CLASS A - 4%

AHITX AMERICAN HIGH INCOME TRUST CLASS A - 4%

NEWFX AMERICAN NEW WORLD FUND CLASS A - 2%

This is the breakdown I got from Fidelity
Domestic Stock 52%
Foreign Stock 24%
Bonds 17%
Short Term 6%

The last jones statement shows a return of ~5.5% over the last 5 years while the SP500 returned ~9.5% I'm not sure how to get back more than 5 years on my account history from jones but it seems like I should be doing closer to the index.

I also have a Roth 401 k at work with all Vanguard SP500 index worth about 1/4 of the above holdings at fidelity. And 6 -12 months emergency fund in cash and cds.

Im 42 and hope to have the choice to retire at 59 1/2.

I've now read boglehaeds guide to investing and have a good understanding of the very basics. How To Make Your Money Last: The Indispensable Retirement Guide is in the mail.

I'd like to continue my progress towards simplification.

Do any of you have some pointers on how I can make educated choices on what to do with my old jones acct holdings?

I'm aware the expense ratios are way high but I've already paid my front load fees so does it make sense to keep the "good performing" american funds I have?

What yal think about a 85/15 equity/bonds mix for another 5+ years?

Thank you!
That's basically the "Financial Advisor Special." I had a very similar portfolio from Northwestern Mutual.

Since it's in an IRA, I'd sell them all and buy a more typical 2-4 fund portfolio.

The load is a sunk cost. You're probably not going to out earn it staying with those funds.
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retired@50
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by retired@50 »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:29 pm I just edited my post. Its in a traditional IRA/Rolledover Acct
In that case, have at it.

Sell now, and use the proceeds to buy what you'd like. Presumably some stock and/or bond index funds.

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
mikeyzito22
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by mikeyzito22 »

At Fidelity you can own Vanguard Funds/ETFS.

If it were me I would sell them and go

VTI (US Total Market) 70%
VXUS (Total International) 15%
BIV (Intermediate Bond) or VGSH (Short Term Treasury) 15%

There is also the Target Date Funds that slowly move towards more fixed income. In your case you could check out Fidelity Target Date funds for 2040 or 2045. Still, if you want to rebalcnce yourself the above three fund is good IMHO.
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ruralavalon
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by ruralavalon »

Congratulations on quitting Edward Jones :) .

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:15 pm I finally took the steps to transfer my e jones accounts to fidelity!

I now have the following Traditional IRA/Rolledover Acct holdings to figure out what to do with.

FUND NAME - % OF ACCT
AWSHX AMERICAN WASHNTN MUTUAL INVESTRS CL A - 22%

AGTHX AMERICAN GROWTH FUND OF AMERICA CLASS A - 18%

SMCWX AMERICAN SMALL CAP WORLD CLASS A - 14%

ABNDX AMERICAN BOND FUND OF AMERICA CLASS A - 13%

ANWPX AMERICAN NEW PERSPECTIVE CLASS A - 13%

CWGIX AMERICAN CAPITAL WORLD GRTH & INC A - 10%

LGMAX LOOMIS SAYLES GLOBAL ALLOCATION CLASS A - 4%

AHITX AMERICAN HIGH INCOME TRUST CLASS A - 4%

NEWFX AMERICAN NEW WORLD FUND CLASS A - 2%

This is the breakdown I got from Fidelity
Domestic Stock 52%
Foreign Stock 24%
Bonds 17%
Short Term 6%

The last jones statement shows a return of ~5.5% over the last 5 years while the SP500 returned ~9.5% I'm not sure how to get back more than 5 years on my account history from jones but it seems like I should be doing closer to the index.

I also have a Roth 401 k at work with all Vanguard SP500 index worth about 1/4 of the above holdings at fidelity. And 6 -12 months emergency fund in cash and cds.

Im 42 and hope to have the choice to retire at 59 1/2.

I've now read boglehaeds guide to investing and have a good understanding of the very basics. How To Make Your Money Last: The Indispensable Retirement Guide is in the mail.

I'd like to continue my progress towards simplification.

Do any of you have some pointers on how I can make educated choices on what to do with my old jones acct holdings?

I'm aware the expense ratios are way high but I've already paid my front load fees so does it make sense to keep the "good performing" american funds I have?

What yal think about a 85/15 equity/bonds mix for another 5+ years?

Thank you!
Your American funds are not really outperforming, Portfolio Visualizer, 2012-2023.

AMERICAN WASHNTN MUTUAL INVESTRS CL A (AWSHX) has NOT done as well as Fidelity® Total Market Index Fund (FSKAX).


Shooting4Sixty wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:29 pm I just edited my post. Its in a traditional IRA/Rolledover Acct
That means you can make any changes you wish inside the IRA without any income tax consequences.

For your desired asset allocation in an ultra-simple, very diversified fund with a very low expense ratio you can consider Fidelity Freedom® Index 2040 Fund Investor Class (FBIFX) ER 0.12%.

Using an allocation fund seems to insulate the investor against behavioral errors, and so produce higher investor returns. Morningstar, Mind the Gap, 2019.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
chassis
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by chassis »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:15 pm I finally took the steps to transfer my e jones accounts to fidelity!

I now have the following Traditional IRA/Rolledover Acct holdings to figure out what to do with.

FUND NAME - % OF ACCT
AWSHX AMERICAN WASHNTN MUTUAL INVESTRS CL A - 22%

AGTHX AMERICAN GROWTH FUND OF AMERICA CLASS A - 18%

SMCWX AMERICAN SMALL CAP WORLD CLASS A - 14%

ABNDX AMERICAN BOND FUND OF AMERICA CLASS A - 13%

ANWPX AMERICAN NEW PERSPECTIVE CLASS A - 13%

CWGIX AMERICAN CAPITAL WORLD GRTH & INC A - 10%

LGMAX LOOMIS SAYLES GLOBAL ALLOCATION CLASS A - 4%

AHITX AMERICAN HIGH INCOME TRUST CLASS A - 4%

NEWFX AMERICAN NEW WORLD FUND CLASS A - 2%

This is the breakdown I got from Fidelity
Domestic Stock 52%
Foreign Stock 24%
Bonds 17%
Short Term 6%

The last jones statement shows a return of ~5.5% over the last 5 years while the SP500 returned ~9.5% I'm not sure how to get back more than 5 years on my account history from jones but it seems like I should be doing closer to the index.

I also have a Roth 401 k at work with all Vanguard SP500 index worth about 1/4 of the above holdings at fidelity. And 6 -12 months emergency fund in cash and cds.

Im 42 and hope to have the choice to retire at 59 1/2.

I've now read boglehaeds guide to investing and have a good understanding of the very basics. How To Make Your Money Last: The Indispensable Retirement Guide is in the mail.

I'd like to continue my progress towards simplification.

Do any of you have some pointers on how I can make educated choices on what to do with my old jones acct holdings?

I'm aware the expense ratios are way high but I've already paid my front load fees so does it make sense to keep the "good performing" american funds I have?

What yal think about a 85/15 equity/bonds mix for another 5+ years?

Thank you!
Congrats on the decision to move accounts out of EJ. Portfolio-wise I like cash and stocks. Short term treasuries also are OK in my book because they are near cash. How bout 85 stocks or equity index / 15 treasury ladder or mid-4% money market fund like FZDXX?
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whodidntante
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by whodidntante »

Some poorly organized thoughts about portfolio construction. It's mainly about picking good risks that you want to take, and that fit your situation. You also want to keep your costs low. You brought up that the funds are for retirement and it's quite far off. That means you don't need liquidity, and you can afford to take quite a bit of good risks if you can tolerate it.

When picking stock funds, I like to be globally diversified. I also like diversifying across factors. I tend towards more ex-USA and more factor diversification than the average poster here, but I'm not the most extreme on either that I have seen.

Picking bond funds is mainly about credit risk and duration risk. People have different models for what level of duration risk is appropriate. Some follow a lazy portfolio that doesn't adapt duration to one's liabilities. You got that suggestion above. Others match duration with liabilities. Others stay short duration. Others don't use nominal bonds, but instead use TIPS, or Series I bonds. Others prefer to own directly held CDs, annuities, stable value funds, or other investments that don't act like bond funds. Probably more common is to have a mix. You find all sorts of approaches recommended, but pick the one that is right for you.

My own portfolio is a mix of T-bills, long-dated TIPS, and Series I bonds. Since I hold government debt, I just hold the individual bonds directly and avoid the expense of a bond fund.
Last edited by whodidntante on Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rob
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by rob »

Congrats... But remember: No more $5 Christmas calendars that you pay $5,000 for in fees, so you have to buy your own now :D
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
Topic Author
Shooting4Sixty
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Shooting4Sixty »

Are there any other metrics aside from expense ratio that I should use to better understand why none of the american funds are worth keeping?

Since they're all unique blends it seems hard to compare to any given index?
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whodidntante
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by whodidntante »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:56 pm Are there any other metrics aside from expense ratio that I should use to better understand why none of the american funds are worth keeping?

Since they're all unique blends it seems hard to compare to any given index?
Referencing factors in my post above, American Funds tend to overweight growth stocks. This approach essentially goes against academic research. Although in the short term, anything can happen. American Funds are not the worst I have seen, but I personally wouldn't hold them even if I could purchase A shares without a load.
exodusNH
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by exodusNH »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:56 pm Are there any other metrics aside from expense ratio that I should use to better understand why none of the american funds are worth keeping?

Since they're all unique blends it seems hard to compare to any given index?
It is very difficult to compare them to a particular. E.g., one of their funds is benchmarked against an international index, but it holds 40% US. It looks like it crushed its benchmark, when in reality a proper one would have been closer to 40% VTI / 60% VXUS, where it did about the same. (Note a benchmark is different than an index.)

American Funds aren't bad products. They're expensive and at the end of the day, the only prediction you can make is that, in the long run, funds with lower fees perform better.

You need to decide what combination of bonds, US stocks, and ex-US stocks make sense for you. Fidelity has excellent, low-cost funds that cover those categories.

You could even pick one of their Freedom Index funds that hold the bond allocation you want, and call it a day.
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Boglenaut
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Boglenaut »

ASSUMING ALL RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS (no tax consequences from selling):

I would suggest planning out your target allocation and then buying Fidelity Index Funds (Zeros or the other ones, bond funds). Don't worry about your current EJ funds at all, start with a clean and simplified slate.

If you have not yet moved the funds to Fidelity, move them "in-kind" if possible (likely Fidelity will accept them all, but not always). This prevents you from being out of the market during the move.

Once you move them, sell them and buy your new Fidelity fund. For selling non-Fidelity funds there should be no charge (only if buying). One thing though, because these are non-Fidelity funds, you cannot simply do an Exchange (at least in my brokerage account). I had to wait a day to do the Buy. For that reason, if you have a lot of money invested, I suggest you do a bit gradually over time. If you have a million dollars, having that much out of the market all at once even for one day adds a lot of risk.

I am very very happy with Fidelity.

Also, if you have not already moved the money, call and find out if they have any promotions going on. I got $1000.

Feel free to call Fidelity to ask questions.
cubfan
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by cubfan »

Way too many funds in my opinion. Course I would get rid of all the active funds go strictly index. I am 53. Never even had a bond until I was 50. That's a personal risk decision you'll have to make. At 53 I'm 80/20. I don't ever plan on having more than 30% bonds because I have passive income to count on. At your age I had 60% total index 20% international index 10% small cat value 10% real estate index. 4 funds
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Katietsu »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:15 pm

This is the breakdown I got from Fidelity
Domestic Stock 52%
Foreign Stock 24%
Bonds 17%
Short Term 6%

The last jones statement shows a return of ~5.5% over the last 5 years while the SP500 returned ~9.5% I'm not sure how to get back more than 5 years on my account history from jones but it seems like I should be doing closer to the index.

Thank you!
I took the standard Vanguard three fund portfolio in the proportions shown in your break down in put it into Portfolio Visualizer. The corresponding CAGR was 5.55% so your results while at Edward Jones were consistent. The S&P 500 did get close to 10% during the last five years, but Vanguard Total International returned less than 2% CAGR and Total Bond was essentially 0.
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Shooting4Sixty
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Shooting4Sixty »

cubfan wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:00 pm Way too many funds in my opinion. Course I would get rid of all the active funds go strictly index. I am 53. Never even had a bond until I was 50. That's a personal risk decision you'll have to make. At 53 I'm 80/20. I don't ever plan on having more than 30% bonds because I have passive income to count on. At your age I had 60% total index 20% international index 10% small cat value 10% real estate index. 4 funds
I concur, no need for that many funds.

And yes, I have already transferred in kind to Fidelity. I chose them be cause they have a local office and the rep was no BS and super helpful with the transition.

If I were to go a bit of bonds, say 5-15% for now, what are the easiest bond index funds or other options to start with? One option I'm pondering is to eventually fund my bond allocation by reassigning my work 401k from roth to tradiotional and from sp500 to VTAPX Vanguard Short-Term Inflation-Protected Securities Index Fund and/or VBTLX Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund.

Another option is vanguard 2050 index fund. Is the .08% expense ratio of the 2050 target date fund a big deal compared to building my own 2 or 3 fund portfolio with .05% expense ratio?
It seems to me that may that little of price difference may be worth the absolute simplicity of the low cost target date fund.

Is it safe to assume the roth would still be the best option for target date funds?

Thank you!
Last edited by Shooting4Sixty on Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
exodusNH
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by exodusNH »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:42 am
cubfan wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:00 pm Way too many funds in my opinion. Course I would get rid of all the active funds go strictly index. I am 53. Never even had a bond until I was 50. That's a personal risk decision you'll have to make. At 53 I'm 80/20. I don't ever plan on having more than 30% bonds because I have passive income to count on. At your age I had 60% total index 20% international index 10% small cat value 10% real estate index. 4 funds
I concur, no need for that many funds.

And yes, I have already transferred in kind to Fidelity. I chose them be cause they have a local office and the rep was no BS and super helpful with the transition.

If I were to go a bit of bonds, say 5-15% for now, what are the easiest bond index funds or other options to start with? One option I'm pondering is to eventually fund my bond allocation by reassigning my work 401k from roth to tradiotional and from sp500 to VTAPX Vanguard Short-Term Inflation-Protected Securities Index Fund and/or VBTLX Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund.

Another option is vanguard 2050 index fund. Is the .08% expense ratio of the 2050 target date fund a big deal compared to building my own 2 or 3 fund portfolio with .05% expense ratio?
It seems to me that may that price difference may be worth the absolute simplicity of the low cost target date fund.

Is it safe to assume the roth would still be the best option for target date funds?

Thank you!
The benefit of the target date funds is that they handle rebalancing for you. It removes all the emotion. The difference between 0.03 and 0.08 is negligible; behavioral errors could easily overwhelm the difference.
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Shooting4Sixty
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Shooting4Sixty »

exodusNH wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:44 am
Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:42 am
cubfan wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:00 pm Way too many funds in my opinion. Course I would get rid of all the active funds go strictly index. I am 53. Never even had a bond until I was 50. That's a personal risk decision you'll have to make. At 53 I'm 80/20. I don't ever plan on having more than 30% bonds because I have passive income to count on. At your age I had 60% total index 20% international index 10% small cat value 10% real estate index. 4 funds
I concur, no need for that many funds.

And yes, I have already transferred in kind to Fidelity. I chose them be cause they have a local office and the rep was no BS and super helpful with the transition.

If I were to go a bit of bonds, say 5-15% for now, what are the easiest bond index funds or other options to start with? One option I'm pondering is to eventually fund my bond allocation by reassigning my work 401k from roth to tradiotional and from sp500 to VTAPX Vanguard Short-Term Inflation-Protected Securities Index Fund and/or VBTLX Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund.

Another option is vanguard 2050 index fund. Is the .08% expense ratio of the 2050 target date fund a big deal compared to building my own 2 or 3 fund portfolio with .05% expense ratio?
It seems to me that may that price difference may be worth the absolute simplicity of the low cost target date fund.

Is it safe to assume the roth would still be the best option for target date funds?

Thank you!
The benefit of the target date funds is that they handle rebalancing for you. It removes all the emotion. The difference between 0.03 and 0.08 is negligible; behavioral errors could easily overwhelm the difference.

The simplicity really does seem too good to be true but then again, 'tis bogleville!
Ed 2
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Ed 2 »

If those in tax deferred accounts , You can easily get 3 funds allocation. VTI,VXUS and total bond index
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Outer Marker
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Outer Marker »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:42 am Another option is vanguard 2050 index fund. Is the .08% expense ratio of the 2050 target date fund a big deal compared to building my own 2 or 3 fund portfolio with .05% expense ratio?
It seems to me that may that little of price difference may be worth the absolute simplicity of the low cost target date fund.

Is it safe to assume the roth would still be the best option for target date funds?
There's nothing wrong with a target date approach, and the costs are trivial. However, I would look for something other than Vanguard's. Way too heavy on international for my taste, and they ascribe to international bonds that I want no part of. Since you're at Fidelity, you might look at their target index funds. Holding bonds in roth is not ideal, but they are a small enough part of the mix you can ignore it for now, and refine your tax optimal placement later.
cubfan
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by cubfan »

Not a big fan of target funds myself tend to be too conservative for me. Personally, I don't have any bonds in my Roth accounts as that is my long-term "bucket" even in retirement. You could do a 3 fund portfolio very easily Vanguard total bond is fine as is fidelity. Takes me about 15 minutes every January to rebalance
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ruralavalon
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by ruralavalon »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:56 pm Are there any other metrics aside from expense ratio that I should use to better understand why none of the american funds are worth keeping?

Since they're all unique blends it seems hard to compare to any given index?
American stock funds tend to concentrate on so-called "growth stocks", ignoring "value stocks", so not fully diversified .

Other metrics could include degree of diversification, volatility, turnover rate, and risk-adjusted returns. For bond funds other metrics could include average credit quality, effective duration and volatility.

It's hard to beat an index fund for the combination of lower risk and higher net returns.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by RetiredAL »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:42 am
cubfan wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:00 pm Way too many funds in my opinion. Course I would get rid of all the active funds go strictly index. I am 53. Never even had a bond until I was 50. That's a personal risk decision you'll have to make. At 53 I'm 80/20. I don't ever plan on having more than 30% bonds because I have passive income to count on. At your age I had 60% total index 20% international index 10% small cat value 10% real estate index. 4 funds
I concur, no need for that many funds.
It's part of the illusion they try to maintain -- "that investing his difficult, so you need us to do it for you".
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by chassis »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:56 pm Are there any other metrics aside from expense ratio that I should use to better understand why none of the american funds are worth keeping?

Since they're all unique blends it seems hard to compare to any given index?
Return vs benchmarks (SP500, etc).
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Charles Joseph
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Charles Joseph »

Without commenting on your portfolio, just want to say congratulations!!!
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Vanguard User »

Congrats. I was with EJ for about 15 years for my Roth IRA. I started with 5.75% front load and nearly 1% ER.

I did a in kind transfer to Fidelity. Sold all the AF funds for cash and bought FZROX. Fidelity also reimbursed me all the closing fees from EJ.

I don’t miss the ‘free’ Christmas cards.
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by AllMostThere »

Great job on getting out of the grasp of EJ. This move will pay you great benefits moving forward with the low-cost Fidelity route. You can use the 2-4 fund low-cost Fidelity "Index" route as others have mentioned for very low cost (<0.10% ER). Or, you can use the 1 fund route with a Target Date Fund. Just be mindful that not all Fidelity Target Date funds are created equal.

Example:
Fidelity Freedom 2045 Fund - FFFGX - 0.75% ER
or
Fidelity Freedom Index 2045 Fund - FIOFX - 0.12% ER

Stick with the Fidelity "Index" funds (regular or Target Date) and you will be in the low-cost options. Good luck. :beer
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Shooting4Sixty
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Shooting4Sixty »

Thanks, I appreciate the continued support from you all as I get ready to set it and forget it with my accounts.

I'm strongly leaning towards a target date fund but also like the 2-4 fund index option.

My current inclination is to go with:

70% - FSKAX - Total US Stock Index
15% - FTIHX - Total Intl Stock Index
15% - FXNAX - Total US Bond Index

Still pondering 5% or so of FSRNX REIT as well.

Then set a reminder to check up around age 50 in 8 years.

I have the bulk of my holdings, 3/4 or so, in traditional IRA and the rest in a Roth 401k that will be funded w/ 15-25% of my income moving forward. It has good vanguard low cost index fund options I can match the Fidelity allocations with. By age 60, my Roth to Traditional holdings should be about 50/50

What do yal think about the above idea to move forward with?

Thank you! :moneybag :sharebeer
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retired@50
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by retired@50 »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:16 am Im 42 and hope to have the choice to retire at 59 1/2.
...
I have the bulk of my holdings, 3/4 or so, in traditional IRA and the rest in a Roth 401k that will be funded w/ 15-25% of my income moving forward. It has good vanguard low cost index fund options I can match the Fidelity allocations with. By age 60, my Roth to Traditional holdings should be about 50/50

What do yal think about the above idea to move forward with?
I don't know what your current marginal tax rate is, but if it's over 25-30%, then using the Roth 401k might be reconsidered.

If you are able to retire at 60, then you'll have maybe 10 years before Social Security begins and 15 years before RMDs begin. That's an awful lot of time to perform partial Trad -> Roth IRA conversions. Using the low-income (read low tax) years of early retirement are an ideal time to put money into a Roth account via conversions.

More details in the wiki.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Traditional_versus_Roth
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Traditi ... h_examples
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Roth_IRA_conversion

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Shooting4Sixty
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Shooting4Sixty »

retired@50 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:36 am
Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:16 am Im 42 and hope to have the choice to retire at 59 1/2.
...
I have the bulk of my holdings, 3/4 or so, in traditional IRA and the rest in a Roth 401k that will be funded w/ 15-25% of my income moving forward. It has good vanguard low cost index fund options I can match the Fidelity allocations with. By age 60, my Roth to Traditional holdings should be about 50/50

What do yal think about the above idea to move forward with?
I don't know what your current marginal tax rate is, but if it's over 25-30%, then using the Roth 401k might be reconsidered.

If you are able to retire at 60, then you'll have maybe 10 years before Social Security begins and 15 years before RMDs begin. That's an awful lot of time to perform partial Trad -> Roth IRA conversions. Using the low-income (read low tax) years of early retirement are an ideal time to put money into a Roth account via conversions.

More details in the wiki.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Traditional_versus_Roth
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Traditi ... h_examples
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Roth_IRA_conversion

Regards,
Great point! I do understand that roth conversions would be an option to move forward with on some of my cash.

Am I correct in thinking step one is to get the allocations set?

Thanks!
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by exodusNH »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:16 am Thanks, I appreciate the continued support from you all as I get ready to set it and forget it with my accounts.

I'm strongly leaning towards a target date fund but also like the 2-4 fund index option.

My current inclination is to go with:

70% - FSKAX - Total US Stock Index
15% - FTIHX - Total Intl Stock Index
15% - FXNAX - Total US Bond Index

Still pondering 5% or so of FSRNX REIT as well.

Then set a reminder to check up around age 50 in 8 years.

I have the bulk of my holdings, 3/4 or so, in traditional IRA and the rest in a Roth 401k that will be funded w/ 15-25% of my income moving forward. It has good vanguard low cost index fund options I can match the Fidelity allocations with. By age 60, my Roth to Traditional holdings should be about 50/50

What do yal think about the above idea to move forward with?

Thank you! :moneybag :sharebeer
Those three are fine. REITs aren't really a separate class. At 5%, it won't have a material impact in either direction.

Ben Felix did a quick video on them a few years ago: https://youtu.be/IzK5x3LlsUU
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by retired@50 »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:40 am
retired@50 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:36 am
Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:16 am Im 42 and hope to have the choice to retire at 59 1/2.
...
I have the bulk of my holdings, 3/4 or so, in traditional IRA and the rest in a Roth 401k that will be funded w/ 15-25% of my income moving forward. It has good vanguard low cost index fund options I can match the Fidelity allocations with. By age 60, my Roth to Traditional holdings should be about 50/50

What do yal think about the above idea to move forward with?
I don't know what your current marginal tax rate is, but if it's over 25-30%, then using the Roth 401k might be reconsidered.

If you are able to retire at 60, then you'll have maybe 10 years before Social Security begins and 15 years before RMDs begin. That's an awful lot of time to perform partial Trad -> Roth IRA conversions. Using the low-income (read low tax) years of early retirement are an ideal time to put money into a Roth account via conversions.

More details in the wiki.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Traditional_versus_Roth
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Traditi ... h_examples
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Roth_IRA_conversion

Regards,
Great point! I do understand that roth conversions would be an option to move forward with on some of my cash.

Am I correct in thinking step one is to get the allocations set?

Thanks!
Well, both are important, but sure, you can establish the stock / bond / cash mix you want first, then you have to decide which account you're going to use to "fill up". Stuffing money into the Roth 401k (if it's a mistake) should be corrected relatively soon.

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Shooting4Sixty
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Shooting4Sixty »

I'm confused as it sounds like on one hand you say to use the roth but on the other you're suggesting not to. At this point I have a fair amount in a trad IRA and it seemed prudent to diversify by stuffing the roth for a while.

What variables do I need to consider? Current income is about 75k/yr and should maintain from 55-80K moving forward. I definitely want to keep it simple....
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by retired@50 »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:59 am I'm confused as it sounds like on one hand you say to use the roth but on the other you're suggesting not to. At this point I have a fair amount in a trad IRA and it seemed prudent to diversify by stuffing the roth for a while.

What variables do I need to consider? Current income is about 75k/yr and should maintain from 55-80K moving forward. I definitely want to keep it simple....
I guess what I'm saying is that you should add paying attention to income taxes to your list of considerations.

The wiki page to read first is linked above. Traditional versus Roth.

It involves knowing your marginal tax bracket (Federal + State) and tax filing status.

If you're in a relatively low tax state (under 5%) and you're in the 12% marginal Federal tax bracket, then using the Roth 401k option is likely a good idea.

If you're in a relatively high tax state (over 5%) and are in the 22% marginal Federal tax bracket, then using the Roth 401k now is potentially a mistake, because you'll likely be in a lower tax bracket after you stop working at 60. This will then give you time to perform Roth conversions later in life.

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by delamer »

exodusNH wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:49 am
Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:16 am Thanks, I appreciate the continued support from you all as I get ready to set it and forget it with my accounts.

I'm strongly leaning towards a target date fund but also like the 2-4 fund index option.

My current inclination is to go with:

70% - FSKAX - Total US Stock Index
15% - FTIHX - Total Intl Stock Index
15% - FXNAX - Total US Bond Index

Still pondering 5% or so of FSRNX REIT as well.

Then set a reminder to check up around age 50 in 8 years.

I have the bulk of my holdings, 3/4 or so, in traditional IRA and the rest in a Roth 401k that will be funded w/ 15-25% of my income moving forward. It has good vanguard low cost index fund options I can match the Fidelity allocations with. By age 60, my Roth to Traditional holdings should be about 50/50

What do yal think about the above idea to move forward with?

Thank you! :moneybag :sharebeer
Those three are fine. REITs aren't really a separate class. At 5%, it won't have a material impact in either direction.

Ben Felix did a quick video on them a few years ago: https://youtu.be/IzK5x3LlsUU
Right.

A position that makes up 5% or less of your portfolio will have very little impact on returns (or risk). That’s just math.

Being in the “de-complicating” phase myself, my philosophy is the fewer the better.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by ruralavalon »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:16 am Thanks, I appreciate the continued support from you all as I get ready to set it and forget it with my accounts.

I'm strongly leaning towards a target date fund but also like the 2-4 fund index option.

My current inclination is to go with:

70% - FSKAX - Total US Stock Index
15% - FTIHX - Total Intl Stock Index
15% - FXNAX - Total US Bond Index

Still pondering 5% or so of FSRNX REIT as well.

Then set a reminder to check up around age 50 in 8 years.

I have the bulk of my holdings, 3/4 or so, in traditional IRA and the rest in a Roth 401k that will be funded w/ 15-25% of my income moving forward. It has good vanguard low cost index fund options I can match the Fidelity allocations with. By age 60, my Roth to Traditional holdings should be about 50/50

What do yal think about the above idea to move forward with?

Thank you! :moneybag :sharebeer
That's reasonable in my opinion.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
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Shooting4Sixty
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Shooting4Sixty »

Any reasons not to do a 2 fund 80/20 FSKAX - US Total market Index / FXNAX - US Bond Index diy portfolio?
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by retired@50 »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:04 pm Any reasons not to do a 2 fund 80/20 FSKAX - US Total market Index / FXNAX - US Bond Index diy portfolio?
Some people, in fact many people, think international stocks are worthwhile.

See the first post in this thread, and view the YouTube Video.
viewtopic.php?t=400140

If you still want to use a 2 fund portfolio, then that's fine with me, and most other Bogleheads.

I just thought you should hear a decent argument that discusses the "Why" of international stock investing.

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Shooting4Sixty
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Shooting4Sixty »

retired@50 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:07 pm
Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:04 pm Any reasons not to do a 2 fund 80/20 FSKAX - US Total market Index / FXNAX - US Bond Index diy portfolio?
Some people, in fact many people, think international stocks are worthwhile.

See the first post in this thread, and view the YouTube Video.
viewtopic.php?t=400140

If you still want to use a 2 fund portfolio, then that's fine with me, and most other Bogleheads.

I just thought you should hear a decent argument that discusses the "Why" of international stock investing.

Regards,
Thank you.
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by Shooting4Sixty »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:12 pm
retired@50 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:07 pm
Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:04 pm Any reasons not to do a 2 fund 80/20 FSKAX - US Total market Index / FXNAX - US Bond Index diy portfolio?
Some people, in fact many people, think international stocks are worthwhile.

See the first post in this thread, and view the YouTube Video.
viewtopic.php?t=400140

If you still want to use a 2 fund portfolio, then that's fine with me, and most other Bogleheads.

I just thought you should hear a decent argument that discusses the "Why" of international stock investing.

Regards,
Thank you.
I suppose one could also theorize that Ex-us is on sale and now'd be a good time to get on board....hmmm
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by retired@50 »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:16 pm
Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:12 pm
retired@50 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:07 pm
Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:04 pm Any reasons not to do a 2 fund 80/20 FSKAX - US Total market Index / FXNAX - US Bond Index diy portfolio?
Some people, in fact many people, think international stocks are worthwhile.

See the first post in this thread, and view the YouTube Video.
viewtopic.php?t=400140

If you still want to use a 2 fund portfolio, then that's fine with me, and most other Bogleheads.

I just thought you should hear a decent argument that discusses the "Why" of international stock investing.

Regards,
Thank you.
I suppose one could also theorize that Ex-us is on sale and now'd be a good time to get on board....hmmm
This is true. The P/E ratio of international stock index funds is probably under 13, while it's over 19 for US stock index funds.

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by dogagility »

Your portfolio selection looks fine to me. I'd not invest in anything that made up 5% of my asset allocation. Just another thing to keep track of and won't move the risk or return needle compared to other assets one of the two broad asset classes (stocks and fixed income).
Shooting4Sixty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:16 pm I suppose one could also theorize that Ex-us is on sale and now'd be a good time to get on board....hmmm
In my opinion, it's hard to know what is "on sale" at any point in time. I think in terms of diversification and asset allocation and invest in broad, total market index funds because of this.

If I were to think that something is "on sale", I might try to market time and move my investments around based upon this feeling. I know that's a losing strategy, so I don't invest this way.
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by GT99 »

Shooting4Sixty wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:15 pm
The last jones statement shows a return of ~5.5% over the last 5 years while the SP500 returned ~9.5% I'm not sure how to get back more than 5 years on my account history from jones but it seems like I should be doing closer to the index.
I'm curious if that 5.5% number is truly the growth of your starting amount, or if they are calculating it based on the growth of the funds after Front end load and other fees on the account? I suspect it's the latter as I've heard they do a lot of voodoo math to make customers think they are performing better than they really are.
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Re: I did it, Goodbye Edward Jones

Post by TSR »

Congrats on the move. I am just adding another vote for the target date fund -- sounds like "easy and cheap" is what you need right now after escaping from "expensive and complicated." Good luck -- all of your proposed options are good at this point.
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