Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

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itsbogletime
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Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by itsbogletime »

I primarily use Fidelity and have my positions there, but recently noticed Vanguard has a much better money market offering (VUSXX).

My goal is to link (FROM THE FIDELITY SIDE) my Fidelity account to my Vanguard account. So that I can initiate incoming and outgoing ACH transfers of CASH from the Fidelity website.

For example, from the Fidelity website I can ask it to pull $100k from my bank account at Bank XYZ. I can also push $100 from Fidelity to my bank XYZ. Replace Bank XYZ with Vanguard - that is what I'm trying to do.

To emphasize, I only want to be able to transfer cash between the institutions, not actual securities.

I'll keep a big chunk of cash (but not all) in the money market in Vanguard to get that yield and if I need to buy stocks unexpectedly (I'm not an active trader, but just keeping my options open), I can initiate a pull from Fidelity to Vanguard.

I would like to do it this way because even though it's an ACH, Fidelity makes the money available immediately.

The way I'd normally link accounts is to go into Fidelity and input the account number, routing number, account type (checking/savings/brokerage). They would send test transactions and eventually be linked.

I cannot do this with Vanguard yet because I don't know what the ACH routing number is.

I spoke to Vanguard reps but got conflicting answers and to be frank it sounds like 1. they themselves don't know and 2. they don't have a good understanding of money movement in general (one kept getting it confused with a securities transfer and kept explaining that process to me).

Just curious if anyone knows the answer to my specific questions?

Question 1...

I want to be able to go on Fidelity website and push or pull cash to or from my Vanguard account. To do that I need Vanguard account number and a routing number. I don't have the routing number.

Is this approach possible?

Question 2...

Alternatively...

If I input my Fidelity account into the Vanguard website, can I (from the Vanguard website) push and pull money from my Fidelity account?

I'd assume yes but was actually told 'no' but a Vanguard rep because Fidelity is "not a bank", so I'd like to confirm that too. This is a worse option than Option 1 because Option 1 makes the funds available immediately for me, but it's better than nothing.

Thanks a lot, I appreciate your time in reading.

Side question, did I get off to a bad start with Vanguard, do you think I'll encounter lots of hassles moving cash in and out of the brokerage account going forward?
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by retired@50 »

Never mind. The article I linked doesn't seem to help.

Regards,
Last edited by retired@50 on Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DrChronzworth
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by DrChronzworth »

Vanguard accounts aren’t bank accounts so they don’t have routing and account numbers natively.

If your Fidelity account has a routing and account numbers you could add them as a “bank” through the “add a bank” function on the account page in Vanguard and initiate the transfer on the VG side.

If you’re really hellbent on doing this by initiating transfers from the Fidelity and have an old mutual fund / transfer agent account I remember from my account rep days sometimes people would set up direct deposit and then use this link to push ACH deposits (that being said that was back in 2011- 2014). (EDIT: They now have direct deposit for brokerage accounts)

The last alternative would be wiring the funds from Fidelity but Fidelity would probably charge you.
FactualFran
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by FactualFran »

I have initiated electronic funds transfers at Vanguard from and to accounts at Fidelity. The most recent one was done about six months ago. Although Fidelity is "not a bank", Fidelity accounts have routing and account number usable for electronic fund transfers.
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by smooth_rough »

I have no issues pushing or pulling from fidelity cash management account to vanguard money market fund. Except that it takes 2-3 business days. It requires bank routing numbers and account numbers to link. But its supposed to be basic functionality.

However ACH to or from local credit union has hit snags, which I blame on their rules. They seem to want to "encourage" me to do bank wire which costs $25, which I want to avoid.
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itsbogletime
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by itsbogletime »

smooth_rough wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:07 pm I have no issues pushing or pulling from fidelity cash management account to vanguard money market fund.
Thanks for the reply. To clarify, in your scenario above, are you initiating the push/pull from the Fidelity website?
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by smooth_rough »

itsbogletime wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:34 pm
smooth_rough wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:07 pm I have no issues pushing or pulling from fidelity cash management account to vanguard money market fund.
Thanks for the reply. To clarify, in your scenario above, are you initiating the push/pull from the Fidelity website?
I have no known issues initiating from fidelity cash management account, back and forth to my vanguard money market fund. Either way initiate from either side. Push or pull. Between fidelity and vanguard. It should be simple and frictionless to move money between fidelity and vanguard by ACH. It takes 2-3 days.

But if I initiate from local credit union checking account, the credit union imposes its own "rules" on various things like limits on amounts, frequency etc. Credit union appears to be intentionally making it pain in the ass, so I only use ACH for smaller amounts, and to "encourage" me to use bank wire so the credit union can charge me $25 bank wire fee.
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itsbogletime
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by itsbogletime »

smooth_rough wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:37 pm
itsbogletime wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:34 pm
smooth_rough wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:07 pm I have no issues pushing or pulling from fidelity cash management account to vanguard money market fund.
Thanks for the reply. To clarify, in your scenario above, are you initiating the push/pull from the Fidelity website?
I have no known issues initiating from fidelity cash management account, back and forth to my vanguard money market fund. Either way initiate from either side. Push or pull. Between fidelity and vanguard. It should be simple and frictionless to move money between fidelity and vanguard by ACH. It takes 2-3 days.

But if I initiate from local credit union checking account, the credit union imposes its own "rules" on various things like limits on amounts, frequency etc. Credit union appears to be intentionally making it pain in the ass, so I only use ACH for smaller amounts, and to "encourage" me to use bank wire so the credit union can charge me $25 bank wire fee.
wow thank you. so this means you managed to link your fidelity account to vanguard. when inside the fidelity website, to link, a person needs the account number and routing number.

so this means you managed to get a routing number to vanguard. how did you manage to get one?

when i call them, they say there is no routing number.

by any chance do you have a vanguard "cash plus" savings account and that is why they gave you a routing number? i have heard that exists but it is only on pilot and not available to everyone or myself.

i agree it should be simple and frictionless. its such a basic thing but vanguard is making it real difficult for me.
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by pizzy »

itsbogletime wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:12 pm
smooth_rough wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:37 pm
itsbogletime wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:34 pm
smooth_rough wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:07 pm I have no issues pushing or pulling from fidelity cash management account to vanguard money market fund.
Thanks for the reply. To clarify, in your scenario above, are you initiating the push/pull from the Fidelity website?
I have no known issues initiating from fidelity cash management account, back and forth to my vanguard money market fund. Either way initiate from either side. Push or pull. Between fidelity and vanguard. It should be simple and frictionless to move money between fidelity and vanguard by ACH. It takes 2-3 days.

But if I initiate from local credit union checking account, the credit union imposes its own "rules" on various things like limits on amounts, frequency etc. Credit union appears to be intentionally making it pain in the ass, so I only use ACH for smaller amounts, and to "encourage" me to use bank wire so the credit union can charge me $25 bank wire fee.
wow thank you. so this means you managed to link your fidelity account to vanguard. when inside the fidelity website, to link, a person needs the account number and routing number.

so this means you managed to get a routing number to vanguard. how did you manage to get one?

when i call them, they say there is no routing number.

by any chance do you have a vanguard "cash plus" savings account and that is why they gave you a routing number? i have heard that exists but it is only on pilot and not available to everyone or myself.

i agree it should be simple and frictionless. its such a basic thing but vanguard is making it real difficult for me.
Have you tried generating a direct deposit form to generate the account/routing info you need?
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by indexfundfan »

Vanguard used to have the Vanguard Advantage product that provided the ABA/Acc numbers which you can link externally. But they scrapped it and I don't believe they have offered a replacement.

As an alternative, you can use Etrade which offers VMFXX, VMRXX and VUSXX commission-free. Etrade does provide you with the ABA/Acc numbers which you can link directly from Fidelity.
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by JoMoney »

I haven't been with Vanguard for several years. When I last had a Vanguard account they would provide you a routing/account number to be able to "Direct Deposit" a paycheck into, but this was a unique ACH number that would only work with one payroll deposit that you had to setup in advance with Vanguard and provide the name it was coming from (I'm not sure if that name was actually validated any partiuclar way.) If you configured any additional "Direct Deposit", or deleted and later re-requested "Direct Deposit" setup you would be given a completely different account number to deposit to. This worked for incoming ACH direct deposits only, as far as I could tell, there wasn't a way to ACH "pull" from the Vanguard brokerage account unless you setup the "VanguardAdvantage" service (which provided checks, debit card, and bill pay) ... but Vanguard did away with that.
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by exodusNH »

itsbogletime wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:12 pm
smooth_rough wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:37 pm
itsbogletime wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:34 pm
smooth_rough wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:07 pm I have no issues pushing or pulling from fidelity cash management account to vanguard money market fund.
Thanks for the reply. To clarify, in your scenario above, are you initiating the push/pull from the Fidelity website?
I have no known issues initiating from fidelity cash management account, back and forth to my vanguard money market fund. Either way initiate from either side. Push or pull. Between fidelity and vanguard. It should be simple and frictionless to move money between fidelity and vanguard by ACH. It takes 2-3 days.

But if I initiate from local credit union checking account, the credit union imposes its own "rules" on various things like limits on amounts, frequency etc. Credit union appears to be intentionally making it pain in the ass, so I only use ACH for smaller amounts, and to "encourage" me to use bank wire so the credit union can charge me $25 bank wire fee.
wow thank you. so this means you managed to link your fidelity account to vanguard. when inside the fidelity website, to link, a person needs the account number and routing number.

so this means you managed to get a routing number to vanguard. how did you manage to get one?

when i call them, they say there is no routing number.

by any chance do you have a vanguard "cash plus" savings account and that is why they gave you a routing number? i have heard that exists but it is only on pilot and not available to everyone or myself.

i agree it should be simple and frictionless. its such a basic thing but vanguard is making it real difficult for me.
You can try enabling direct deposit on your Vanguard account. You'll get an account and routing number. I don't know if you can then use it from other banks, but it's worth a shot with $1 transactions.
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by scalawag73 »

I think you can only initiate from Vanguard, and not from the other institution. So, you're essentially "pulling" from Vanguard the money from the other institution. Vanguard doesn't make it very intuitive, that's for sure. Their new website, which is visually messy, makes it even harder.
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by smooth_rough »

I am on the old original vanguard mutual fund platform, not brokerage platform. My vanguard money market fund has check writing. I can order paper checks which vanguard sends me free by mail. I rarely pay for anything by paper check these days. But the bank routing number is on the paper check.
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by itsbogletime »

indexfundfan wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:50 pm Vanguard used to have the Vanguard Advantage product that provided the ABA/Acc numbers which you can link externally. But they scrapped it and I don't believe they have offered a replacement.

As an alternative, you can use Etrade which offers VMFXX, VMRXX and VUSXX commission-free. Etrade does provide you with the ABA/Acc numbers which you can link directly from Fidelity.
Thanks to everyone for all the replies. Someone suggested a vanguard direct deposit work around but I don't want it to go wrong and have to deal with vanguard's customer service.

Thanks for the suggestion about Etrade, if I can buy VUSXX there, and it lets me ACH in and out, it solves my problems. And I hope it has better customer service than Vanguard. Seems like the best solution.

I did a quick google search and it seems like I can buy T-Bills there too, can anyone confirm?
Lastly, can I autoroll the T-bills (buy the 4 week T-bill and renew it every month automatically)?
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by DoubleComma »

Sounds you main issue is getting a routing number and account number…

I was able to set up direct deposit to my Vanguard Account, specifically to the settlement account of my brokerage account, without hassle. If I recall, from their website I was able to find a “how FAQ to on direct deposit” that showed exactly where to get the account number and routing number required. 90% sure it was a basic online form that asked a couple questions and the instantly spit out the account number and ABA routing number. I’ve since used those to link my Vanguard Account to many other accounts…just not Fidelity because I don’t use them at the moment.

Currently I have two bi-weekly pay checks making an auto deposit and I have ACH capabilities to 5 external accounts.
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by DrChronzworth »

smooth_rough wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:54 pm I am on the old original vanguard mutual fund platform, not brokerage platform. My vanguard money market fund has check writing. I can order paper checks which vanguard sends me free by mail. I rarely pay for anything by paper check these days. But the bank routing number is on the paper check.
That's not your accounts' routing number (which again doesn't exist because it's not a bank account) but rather a routing number for Vanguard's bank account.

What direct deposit is doing is basically setting up a shadow bank account for you with Vanguard's banking provider that is then credited to your Vanguard account.

I'm still unsure why OP doesn't link their Fidelity account via the Add a Bank page on Vanguard and initiate transactions that from the Vanguard side...
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by DrChronzworth »

itsbogletime wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:53 pm
indexfundfan wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:50 pm Vanguard used to have the Vanguard Advantage product that provided the ABA/Acc numbers which you can link externally. But they scrapped it and I don't believe they have offered a replacement.

As an alternative, you can use Etrade which offers VMFXX, VMRXX and VUSXX commission-free. Etrade does provide you with the ABA/Acc numbers which you can link directly from Fidelity.
Why can't you use Vanguard's ACH ability to add your Fidelity account as a bank?
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

Here is a concise summary of what you can do, and how to do it:

Pull from Fidelity to Vanguard -- Possible starting from Vanguard site by adding and verifying Fidelity as a bank account

Push from Vanguard to Fidelity -- Possible starting from Vanguard site by adding and verifying Fidelity as a bank account

Push from Fidelity to Vanguard -- Possible starting from Fidelity site after first setting up a direct deposit service for Fidelity on the Vanguard website which generates a unique J.P. Morgan Chase routing and account number which can ONLY be used for deposits, NOT debits, and only feeds the Vanguard settlement fund (VMFXX) of the linked account

Pull from Vanguard to Fidelity -- Not possible / not allowed with standard accounts -- formerly possible with Vanguard Advantage accounts, and I think also possible with the Vanguard Cash Deposit and Vanguard Cash Plus account features under trial for some and expected to be expanded in the future

So you can move money bi-directionally, and in 3 out of 4 ways. It has been sufficient for me my needs. There is no need to call Vanguard, as this can all be done (and undone) easily online with a modicum of patience. Linking and verifying a bank account takes several days. Setting up direct deposit is instantaneous, and you can establish as many as you like, or stick with just one if you don't care about being able to easily identify the source of incoming funds in your transaction history. I have done all of this stuff.
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JoMoney
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by JoMoney »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:08 am... and I think also possible with the Vanguard Cash Deposit and Vanguard Cash Plus account features under trial for some and expected to be expanded in the future...
People eligible for the Cash Plus pilot reported getting something from Vanguard that indicated it would,
Other benefits of the pilot offer include:
...
Easy online transactions

There's no need for a checkbook. We'll provide you with routing and account numbers you can use to pay bills, set up direct deposit with your employer, and more.
...
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PatrickA5
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by PatrickA5 »

Are there limits on the amount that can be transferred from VG to Fidelity via ACH? DW is in the process of inheriting VG assets. Our plan is to move everything to Fidelity (via account transfer), but maybe doing ACH transfers will accomplish the same thing?
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by Swimmer »

I had a similar situation when I tried to transfer from Discoverbank to Schwab (with appropriate routing numbers). Discoverbank wouldn’t do it. I gave up and use a workaround.
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by Eagle33 »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:08 am Here is a concise summary of what you can do, and how to do it:

Pull from Fidelity to Vanguard -- Possible starting from Vanguard site by adding and verifying Fidelity as a bank account

Push from Vanguard to Fidelity -- Possible starting from Vanguard site by adding and verifying Fidelity as a bank account

Push from Fidelity to Vanguard -- Possible starting from Fidelity site after first setting up a direct deposit service for Fidelity on the Vanguard website which generates a unique J.P. Morgan Chase routing and account number which can ONLY be used for deposits, NOT debits, and only feeds the Vanguard settlement fund (VMFXX) of the linked account

Pull from Vanguard to Fidelity -- Not possible / not allowed with standard accounts -- formerly possible with Vanguard Advantage accounts, and I think also possible with the Vanguard Cash Deposit and Vanguard Cash Plus account features under trial for some and expected to be expanded in the future

So you can move money bi-directionally, and in 3 out of 4 ways. It has been sufficient for me my needs. There is no need to call Vanguard, as this can all be done (and undone) easily online with a modicum of patience. Linking and verifying a bank account takes several days. Setting up direct deposit is instantaneous, and you can establish as many as you like, or stick with just one if you don't care about being able to easily identify the source of incoming funds in your transaction history. I have done all of this stuff.
Thank you for providing a clear how-to response to OP's question.
cruger
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by cruger »

Vanguard does not provide for ACH from a brokerage settlement account to treasury direct

Note vanguard only sells treasury for multiples of $1000 face

I suggested for voice of people that this outbound ach to treasury direct be enabled

Please share with others for comment discussion etc
exodusNH
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by exodusNH »

cruger wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 2:13 pm Note vanguard only sells treasury for multiples of $1000 face
This is true for every brokerage that I'm aware of.

You can only get $100 increments at Treasury Direct.
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Re: Can you really not ACH cash to/from another institution into Vanguard? (Initiated by other institution?)

Post by beyou »

Open a new Vanguard Cash Plus Acct and then you can ACH initiated outside Vanguard.

https://investor.vanguard.com/accounts- ... us-account
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