Carvana. Registration troubles.

[ChinchillaWhiplash]

Bought a car from Carvana on 11/30/22. Used a 3rd party car loan. Purchased car from neighboring state. Carvana gave temp tags and registration which expired on 1/13/23. Fully paid off car last month. Have jumped through hoops because Carvana keeps needing more paperwork. Now after temp tags expired Carvana says they needed another state VIN inspection since the 1st had errors. Sent them a new one after having to drive the car illegally to have it done. They sent a prepaid fedex label to ship it. That was 4 days ago. Still waiting on processing for registration. They can’t issue another temp plate for my state. Now have $22k of useless metal sitting in the garage. Really need this car as I’m stuck driving my son’s car. Have to drive him to college and pick him up so it would be great to give his car back to him. Not sure what to do now? Should I contact the former lien holder as they would be the ones that would do the final title transfer to me? Would guess that they have not received this from Carvana either. Interested in joining class action lawsuit but not able to find how to participate. Seems as if they are just giving me the run around at this point. After reading about others having a similar issue, I would not recommend using them to purchase a vehicle.

[Jack FFR1846]

This is a well known problem with Carvana and they have been widely reported in the news. What I personally would do is return the car to Carvana and get a refund. Then buy a car from a reputable, local car dealer. Carvana is this far (fingers 1 mm apart) from declaring bankruptcy. The whole company is a huge scam, run by father and son who have criminal pasts. Good luck.

[Tubes]

This is a well known problem with Carvana and they have been widely reported in the news. What I personally would do is return the car to Carvana and get a refund. Then buy a car from a reputable, local car dealer. Carvana is this far (fingers 1 mm apart) from declaring bankruptcy. The whole company is a huge scam, run by father and son who have criminal pasts. Good luck.

Carvana has actually had their business license suspended in a few places because of this.

How dare they use a halo as part of their logo. They are not angels.

[ChinchillaWhiplash]

Would love to take it back but can’t drive it the 5.5 hrs back to Carvana (expired tags). I live too far away from their distribution center so had to pick it up from a vending machine. Another problem is that the car is nice and fairly hard to find with full service history and low milage. I could try and find something else similar but my wants and needs are hard to meet. Not many options for AWD, V6 powered, luxury full size sedan, < 60k miles, and a price under $25k.

[Nate79]

Would love to take it back but can’t drive it the 5.5 hrs back to Carvana (expired tags). I live too far away from their distribution center so had to pick it up from a vending machine. Another problem is that the car is nice and fairly hard to find with full service history and low milage. I could try and find something else similar but my wants and needs are hard to meet. Not many options for AWD, V6 powered, luxury full size sedan, < 60k miles, and a price under $25k.

Have you spoke to your local DMV?

[ChinchillaWhiplash]

Yes. They said to see if the dealer could issue another plate. Which took me back to Carvana. Carvana said they are not able to in my state.

[ResearchMed]

Have you sent in written requests/complaints or is this all just by phone?

Either way, I would consider sending identical letters to the AG's office in each state (yours, and where car was sold, and maybe also wherever Carvana HQ is located), to the Consumer Affairs office (or whatever each is called).

The very few times we've done this over the years, it has generated a positive outcome.

Or a consumer affairs program on a local TV station?
Sounds like a real mess, especially if Carvana has a reputation for not being responsive.

RM

[twh]

Have you asked Carvana to send you a check for all the taxes and fees related to buying the car and registering it? If they can do this, then you can just take all your paperwork to the DMV and get it done.

I'm on my second set of temp plates because the state I'm in is backed up with dealer registrations. I tried to convince the out-of-state dealer to just let me buy without charging taxes, but they wouldn't do it. Hopefully it will all come before these one expire.

[lazydavid]

Would love to take it back but can’t drive it the 5.5 hrs back to Carvana (expired tags). I live too far away from their distribution center so had to pick it up from a vending machine. Another problem is that the car is nice and fairly hard to find with full service history and low milage. I could try and find something else similar but my wants and needs are hard to meet. Not many options for AWD, V6 powered, luxury full size sedan, < 60k miles, and a price under $25k.

If you're unwilling to return the car, you will likely be one of the hundreds of customers who has to mothball an otherwise-useful car for months or potentially years waiting for a title, because you're unable to register it.

Your experience is incredibly common, and Carvana has been fined dozens of times for it. But the fines are tiny compared to their profits, so they just pay them, keep violating the law and screwing their customers.

[Jack FFR1846]

Would love to take it back but can’t drive it the 5.5 hrs back to Carvana (expired tags). I live too far away from their distribution center so had to pick it up from a vending machine. Another problem is that the car is nice and fairly hard to find with full service history and low milage. I could try and find something else similar but my wants and needs are hard to meet. Not many options for AWD, V6 powered, luxury full size sedan, < 60k miles, and a price under $25k.

Rent a U-Haul truck and car trailer. Drive it out and return it.

Worst case: Carvana files for bankruptcy, fires the rest of its employees (they already let a bunch go) and you never get a title. If you're a roadracer, you could put a cage in it and use it as a track car.

I really don't care if it's the best car known to man with the lowest price seen in history. If they never send you a title, it can never be used.

I guess another realistic option is to find an auction totaled car and transfer all the parts over. Look for a flood car without body damage.

[tunafish]

Can you use a car transport company to take the car back, and go with them in a rental car?

I am not following all the details here, but even if you get the car back to them and are there in person, will that solve the problem?

[tunafish]

Reading more of the replies, it occurs to me if you get a check from them be sure it doesn't bounce.

[ChinchillaWhiplash]

I just checked the tracking # for the VIN inspection. Was an overnight label but it was delayed and has not arrived at its destination. Guessing the ice storm had something to do with it. Fedex has some crazy routs too. CO to Memphis to AZ. They might need to work on their logistics. Will give Carvana a few days to process this once it arrives. If they still won’t fix everything, I will file a complaint with the AG’s office for state where purchased. They have issued me an agent that I deal directly with. Interactions have been via chat, txt, and phone calls. Have had lots of correspondences with them in the last month. Wish I would have done more homework on them, but never thought that a company could be so bad Have only heard the good about them in the past and went with that.

[Watty]

Used a 3rd party car loan. Purchased car from neighboring state. Carvana gave temp tags and registration which expired on 1/13/23. Fully paid off car last month.

It is too late now but it was a mistake to pay off the car loan before the title was issued. The problem is that the title was likely sent to the loan company or would require their release to issue a title without a lien on it. How this works will vary by state.

If the loan company was still involved they would have incentive and likely clout and staff lawyers to get this fixed sooner.

[twh]

Worst case he can go to the state DMV with all his papers. Getting money back from Carvana will be more difficult probably.

[increment]

Fedex has some crazy routs too. CO to Memphis to AZ. They might need to work on their logistics.

(This is completely normal for overnight FedEx items. They have a huge hub in Memphis.)

[epictetus]

if the issue is not resolved soon i wonder if you would be apply to fill out at form at the DMV for a vehicle with a "lost title."

i don't know what is involved in this or if it would work for your situation. i had a relative who did this once and it worked out in his situation.

just a thought

[Rule_of_72t]

But the fines are tiny compared to their profits, so they just pay them, keep violating the law and screwing their customers.

The fines are huge compared to their profits. Cumulative fines are greater than cumulative profit because Carvana has no profits.

[ChinchillaWhiplash]

Talked to my lender and they sent me a proof of payment in full letter. Sent to Carvana and asked them to send the title to me directly in addition to a refund of registration fees so I can do the registration myself. Will see what happens. Their registration people seem to be completely incompetent. Won’t ever buy from them again unless they can provide a title at time of purchase. One other bad thing they did is require you to purchase an extended warranty from them. Seems illegal. I canceled as soon as I got the car home and was refunded quickly. They don’t make cancelling intuitive so I’m sure they make some money from this. If you don’t cancel right away they pro-rate the refund.

[firebirdparts]

Used a 3rd party car loan. Purchased car from neighboring state. Carvana gave temp tags and registration which expired on 1/13/23. Fully paid off car last month.

It is too late now but it was a mistake to pay off the car loan before the title was issued. The problem is that the title was likely sent to the loan company or would require their release to issue a title without a lien on it. How this works will vary by state.

If the loan company was still involved they would have incentive and likely clout and staff lawyers to get this fixed sooner.

This X 1000. The word "likely" has no place in this discussion. The truth is, the title may not have been sent at all (in my state it certainly wouldn't be sent yet), but when it does begin to exist, that's where it'll go. They'll have to figure out who you are when it gets there, and you don't have a loan with them.

Never never never screw them up.

Anyway, this does not actually have any bearing, whatsoever, on your tags. That is a separate problem.

You can forget about buying from a dealer who will provide you a title at purchase. They won't do it. It's not about having a title in hand. They won't do it for other reasons.

[Jack FFR1846]

Well, sure a dealer hands you a title. If they don't send their runner to register the car for you, in my state, they sign the dealer's section of the previous owner's title and hand it to you. I've done this a number of times from used car dealers. I take that signed title, my RMV1 form filled out by my insurance agent and head to get my plates, registration and application for my own title.

At this point, regardless of other things you're doing, you really should complain to your state's Attorney General.

Carvana, and the CEO's scammer father's company Drive Time should both be shut down and their heads thrown in jail.

[ChinchillaWhiplash]

Carvana rejected VIN inspection #2 from a different officer at the police department. I was told by the nice lady at vending machine that Carvana were sticklers for having the VIN inspection filled out perfectly. She was not kidding. Anyway they said that they would send the title to me directly so I could do a self registration. Hopefully they will give me my tax money that was included in the sale so I can pay when I apply for tags. Not getting my hopes up at this point. Might have to take them to small claims court at this rate.

[illumination]

I can't stress enough no one should be buying a car from Carvana. If I was in this situation, I would take the car back and get a refund if that's an option. Find another car.

This isn't really a secret, but there's a lot going on in the background with Carvana beyond their finances on how they are handling titles that's going to be an absolute mess. According to a reliable source I have, problems like this are just the tip of the iceberg of what's coming.

[ResearchMed]

Is there a way to check if Carvana actually transferred the title to you (hope so!) and it's just the paperwork/getting the title to you that is delayed?

If so, then what about what epictetus suggested:

if the issue is not resolved soon i wonder if you would be apply to fill out at form at the DMV for a vehicle with a "lost title."

i don't know what is involved in this or if it would work for your situation. i had a relative who did this once and it worked out in his situation.

just a thought

[emphasis added]

RM

[Jack FFR1846]

OP can't get a "lost title" registration from the DMV. They have never had a title for this car. Carvana or more likely the previous owner who sold it to Carvana are the only ones who can get a replacement title. Think about it. If anyone could come in with a sales contract and no title to apply for a title, I could go in with a fake sales contract and get a title for Jay Leno's McLaren F1. Then I go with a flatbed and repo "my" car from Jay's garage. Nope.

It sounds like in this case, Carvana actually has the title and as part of the sales process was going to register the car for them. Because Carvana is hemorrhaging money and well on the way to bankruptcy, they probably don't have verifiable cash to pay the sales tax and registration fees, so are holding back on doing this.

If you don't want to be in this situation, don't even consider buying or selling with Carvana or Drive Time (the convict father's company).

[ResearchMed]

OP can't get a "lost title" registration from the DMV. They have never had a title for this car. Carvana or more likely the previous owner who sold it to Carvana are the only ones who can get a replacement title. Think about it. If anyone could come in with a sales contract and no title to apply for a title, I could go in with a fake sales contract and get a title for Jay Leno's McLaren F1. Then I go with a flatbed and repo "my" car from Jay's garage. Nope.

It sounds like in this case, Carvana actually has the title and as part of the sales process was going to register the car for them. Because Carvana is hemorrhaging money and well on the way to bankruptcy, they probably don't have verifiable cash to pay the sales tax and registration fees, so are holding back on doing this.

If you don't want to be in this situation, don't even consider buying or selling with Carvana or Drive Time (the convict father's company).

What IF (I'm *not* saying this is the likely situation) the title had been sent but did indeed "get lost".
There is no way at all to track the title transfer to what would be shown on the new title, so it could get reissued?

I agree that if there is nothing showing *anywhere* about the title transfer other than that paper that is being mailed (or otherwise delivered), then fraud would become rather easy with a fake sales receipt. However, presumably titles do go missing in the mail occasionally...

Note: I am (obviously) not familiar with doing this long distance. But what *would* happen if the title doc was "lost in the mail"?
How would this be different than if OP had received the title and then promptly (or slowly!) lost it?

RM

[ChinchillaWhiplash]

I’m still trying to get title for my car. Temp plate has been expired for over 1 month. Not sure what to do. Will have to pay a late fee for registration. Don’t have a vehicle to drive regularly. Have threatened them with civil action. Unfortunately purchase was made out of state. Was also promised over phone that they would FedEx $500 check so I could get a rental. They are just giving me the run around and stalling. I asked for proof that they actually hold the title currently. Can I force them to give me my money back if they don’t have the title? Any ideas of how to proceed?

[ResearchMed]

I’m still trying to get title for my car. Temp plate has been expired for over 1 month. Not sure what to do. Will have to pay a late fee for registration. Don’t have a vehicle to drive regularly. Have threatened them with civil action. Unfortunately purchase was made out of state. Was also promised over phone that they would FedEx $500 check so I could get a rental. They are just giving me the run around and stalling. I asked for proof that they actually hold the title currently. Can I force them to give me my money back if they don’t have the title? Any ideas of how to proceed?

Attorney General's office in each state.
ASAP.

Do you happen to be an elder? If so, also the "Elder Affairs Office" section.
When trying to get some consumer help for elderly MIL, that was the office that responded... *fast*, even though it wasn't anything like a medical emergency.

Given what seems to be happening with Carvana, "time is of the essence".

RM

[twh]

Go to the DMV in person. Ask for help. Be nice. Tell them you are at your wits end. Maybe they can help.

[BogleFanGal]

I can't stress enough no one should be buying a car from Carvana. If I was in this situation, I would take the car back and get a refund if that's an option. Find another car.

This isn't really a secret, but there's a lot going on in the background with Carvana beyond their finances on how they are handling titles that's going to be an absolute mess. According to a reliable source I have, problems like this are just the tip of the iceberg of what's coming.

Lots of good advice. Small comfort, but OP - you shouldn't beat yourself up for choosing them based upon what you heard at the time. I've regretted several choices I made that failed, despite having the best intel possible at the time.

There were actually legit positive Carvana experiences in their earlier days. I'm only one anedotal case, but bought three vehicles from them in past 6-7 years and had pretty good experiences. Some snafus/back office annoyances, but no big title/tag delays. Reliable, good quality cars.

For states like mine in bed with dealerships and lobbyists, Carvana used to be a better value than any dealership by far. While Carvana will likely crash and burn, hoping the future brings at least one or two ethical online car shopping options. I detest the dealership model.

[andypanda]

If not Carvana?

Google them. They need to pull a huge rabbit out of a hat they don't have.

"Why is Carvana in trouble?
Carvana doesn't have much cash on hand, and they have $6.3 billion in debt, including $5.7 billion in senior notes. The company has consistently borrowed money to cover losses. They've also borrowed money in the past for growth plans as they finance.Nov 18, 2022"

[ChinchillaWhiplash]

I am happy with the car. Not happy with their registration process. Afraid they might go under before I get a title which would make my nice car basically useless. Have filed an official complaint with the AG. Hopefully that will get some results soon.

[Jack FFR1846]

Carvana's set up is such that the "original" stock holders, aka, current CEO and his father (from Drive Time) siphon money out as it comes in and the business and regular stock holders suffer. At this point, I'm not sure why any lender would loan them money but I have to think they perhaps hold the inventory as collateral.

Why Carvana won't send the OP the title, then later hem and ha about the money to register, title and pay sales tax would be what I would consider a good outcome. At least then, the OP could properly register this car and drive it. Getting the other money back would be a lesser task. Still worthwhile to do but at least their car is properly registered and driven.

And to talk a bit about a "lost" title. Every state will have a different procedure, but I would expect that any titling would need traceable transactions from the previous owner. Having the previous owner apply for a replacement title might be one action that could be done if the state doesn't have some form you file when you sell a car. My state has nothing beyond un-registering the car which is often done for sports car before every winter. If Carvana cannot locate the title, it would be their responsibility to work with the previous owner. Best case, they would fill out the form and include a check to the DMV so the previous owner can simply sign, mail that envelope and then mail the title to Carvana. Then Carvana can mail the title to the OP. Unfortunately, Carvana appears to be completely off the rails and it's quite likely that those with this kind of responsibility have been fired and those remaining are related to the CEO and incompetent.

[illumination]

I can't stress enough no one should be buying a car from Carvana. If I was in this situation, I would take the car back and get a refund if that's an option. Find another car.

This isn't really a secret, but there's a lot going on in the background with Carvana beyond their finances on how they are handling titles that's going to be an absolute mess. According to a reliable source I have, problems like this are just the tip of the iceberg of what's coming.

Lots of good advice. Small comfort, but OP - you shouldn't beat yourself up for choosing them based upon what you heard at the time. I've regretted several choices I made that failed, despite having the best intel possible at the time.

There were actually legit positive Carvana experiences in their earlier days. I'm only one anedotal case, but bought three vehicles from them in past 6-7 years and had pretty good experiences. Some snafus/back office annoyances, but no big title/tag delays. Reliable, good quality cars.

For states like mine in bed with dealerships and lobbyists, Carvana used to be a better value than any dealership by far. While Carvana will likely crash and burn, hoping the future brings at least one or two ethical online car shopping options. I detest the dealership model.

I agree that the traditional car dealer model is garbage and absolutely everyone hates it. I think something like Carvana could have worked as a disruptor had some ethical people been running it.

People liked the early days Carvana because they were essentially giving away money to grab market share. Eventually you have to make money at some point if you want to be in the used car business.

There's a reason local car dealers have so many crazy laws to protect their business model. Tesla had to fight like crazy just to be able to sell to consumers directly.

[ChinchillaWhiplash]

Will be able to get a temp tag extension in about a week from the MV department for the state of purchase. Filed a formal complaint and they will open a case to retrieve the title. I don’t know why Carvana couldn’t have got an extension on the tags but they told me they were unable to. Seems like they have good cars and a good service until it’s time to register the car. At this point in the process it is complete chaos

[andypanda]

Maybe they get to keep the car(s) on their books as an asset until the title is officially sent.

[DoubleComma]

Maybe they get to keep the car(s) on their books as an asset until the title is officially sent.

why would they want to keep unnecessary inventory on their books? I don't understand the advantage. We spend a lot of time working to improve inventory turns, cash conversion and the like. I would imagine hold excess inventory, even when you don't actually have it, would be a drag on your performance. My expectation would be they can't "recognize the sale" and therefore account for the cash until the vehicle is off the books.

[dukeblue219]

Maybe they get to keep the car(s) on their books as an asset until the title is officially sent.

why would they want to keep unnecessary inventory on their books? I don't understand the advantage. We spend a lot of time working to improve inventory turns, cash conversion and the like. I would imagine hold excess inventory, even when you don't actually have it, would be a drag on your performance. My expectation would be they can't "recognize the sale" and therefore account for the cash until the vehicle is off the books.

Sure that all makes sense in a proper accounting system but when there is no cash to pay creditors, it doesn't really matter if you recognize the sale or not. This isnt about making earnings look rosy for Wall St; it's about desperately claiming assets as collateral to get a high interest rate loan extended another week. At least, allegedly.

[ChinchillaWhiplash]

Just got an email from Carvana with an attached image of the title in their name. It is titled in a different state than where it was purchased which is also different than where I live. They say they are still getting the paperwork together to send to me. I can’t understand why they are taking so long?

[stan1]

Just got an email from Carvana with an attached image of the title in their name. It is titled in a different state than where it was purchased which is also different than where I live. They say they are still getting the paperwork together to send to me. I can’t understand why they are taking so long?

They laid off about 20% of their employees in 2022 (about 4,000 people). So I'm sure there are backlogs while they try to absorb the impacts of that.

[andypanda]

"why would they want to keep unnecessary inventory on their books?"

It's in the asset column.
If they don't transfer the title don't they still own the vehicle? If they own it isn't it listed as an asset? Why not count it twice when you are billions in debt? Heck, borrow against it too.

[8foot7]

In my state, you can post a surety bond in favor of the state with your application for lost title. This will pay out if someone else later comes with valid title to register the car you applied for a los tag for. If no one makes a claim for the vehicle over a longer period (I think it’s a couple of years), you can cancel the bond. Check your state to see if such a maneuver is possible. I would assume a bankruptcy filing by Carvana would immediately limit your options for relief directly from them - you may still eventually get a title, if the company continues to operate, but one suspects you’d have a hard time compelling them via suit. So it might be good to pursue another Avenue.

[mreed911]

In Texas, at least, OP could likely go down the “bonded title” route. Requires purchasing a bond and filing the bond along with an application for title. After two years it can be reissued as a normal title.

[ChinchillaWhiplash]

Was contacted by agent for state mv enforcement. Said that Carvana is about as cooperative with them as they are with me. The dealer vending place I purchased from is closing up. Looks like Carvana is on its last leg and will be imploding soon. I sure hope I can get my title before the [abbreviated profanity removed by moderator oldcomputerguy]. DO NOT BUY FROM CARVANA!

[homebuyer6426]

What a pain. Thanks for the heads up and good luck.

[ChinchillaWhiplash]

MV enforcement sending 45 day temp tag extension. Carvana supposed to send a check for $500 to help cover rental. No tracking #. Hope it shows up. Still no word on when title will be shipped Will a dealer buy this car? Maybe they can get the title from them. I can show them the picture of it that Carvana sent me. This nice car is leaving a very bad taste in my mouth and I need something to drive! Getting desperate

[Jack FFR1846]

Carvana lost over $800M in the 4th quarter. So losses are going up and to the right. Expect things to get worse. They "only" lost $1.6B last year.

[ChinchillaWhiplash]

Looks like VROOM is in a similar financial state. Not sure if they have interest payments due like Carvana but they probably do. Have read people’s reviews with similar issues as purchasing from Carvana. I guess that business model didn’t work out so well. Unfortunate since it is a very convenient way to purchase a car. Especially for someone who does not have a lot of dealers to choose from.

[andypanda]

"Indeed, established in 2012 and reporting financials since 2014, Carvana failed to earn any profits in that year -- or in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, or 2019 either." - Motley Fool

And then it got worse. How exactly does a company lose $7.61 per share in three months? I wonder if their Richmond vending machine can be converted to condos or storage units or something?

[ChinchillaWhiplash]

Good update! Got a tracking number for the title and docs so I can finally register the car. Contact said they are working on getting checks for the taxes and fees that I paid them. Hope that they actually get that to me. Anyway good to have issue resolved.