Technivorm Moccamaster KBTS coffee machine

[sunny_socal]

My drip coffee maker died! It was a Zojirushi and I'd been pretty happy with it.

Next up is a Moccamaster:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001L ... UTF8&psc=1

[img/]https://content.abt.com/image.php/big_7 ... &min_h=550[/img]
[Image link broken by Moderator Misenplace - forum policy states avoid distracting formatting]
I'll post my BH review once it arrives!

Anyone else have one? (or the other moccamaster models) Supposedly it brews the perfect cup of coffee.

[nisiprius]

I've had one for about twenty years. I am no longer making more than one cup of coffee at a time so it's in a closet and probably will get donated--problem is that the plastic reservoir looks grody, you can clean it but you can't un-yellow it.

It makes great coffee. It makes better coffee than the three or four coffeemakers we had before it. The heating unit is seemly immortal.

The bad thing is that all the plastic parts for it--the cone, the cone cover--and the carafe--don't last and are abusively expensive to replace. We're on our third cone, second cone lid, and second carafe (something happens and they lose their heat-retaining property). The carafe cost $99 to replace and believe it or not THE STOPPER WASN'T INCLUDED, that was another $25 or so.

[windaar]

To me a Melitta pour-over cone makes the perfect cup of coffee but I look forward to your review!

[lazydavid]

I had one for twelve years, loved it. It made on average 4 pots per day for that entire time. The plastic parts were indeed fiddly, but I didn't have any break during that time. What eventually took it out of service was a hole formed in the heating coil and it started to leak, which would then blow the breaker. After 17.5k pots brewed, I figured this was an acceptable failure and retired it rather than pursuing a repair.

I replaced it 8 years ago with a Bunn TW15-TC. Coffee is just as good as the Technivorm (since both brew at the proper temperature), but it's dramatically faster (3.5 minutes for 64 oz vs. 10 minutes for 40 oz), nothing fiddly about it at all, and will last my son's lifetime.

[TierArtz]

I purchased one just about like it 13 years ago. It makes one or two pots of coffee per day with no problems what so ever. Love it!

[nisiprius]

P.S. The thermal carafe isn't bad, but it isn't anywhere near as good as the glass-vacuum kind. And as I say our first lost its heat-retaining characteristics, I'm not sure how or why--not like the glass kind where it is usually an obvious or dramatic event.

[VinoVita]

Purchased on Amazon 3-4 years ago , on sale for $259. No problems.
Highly recommend it…makes a wonderful cup of Joe.

[teamDE]

The Bonavita is also SCA certified and has lots of good reviews for the half the price. I have the older version of this one and it's going on ten years old.
https://www.amazon.com/Bonavita-One-Tou ... FO1HK?th=1

[Oreamnos]

I procured a KBT a few weeks ago, and am very happy with it thus far. Slightly larger capacity than the KBTS, which I needed for my usual routine.

The coffee it brews is great, and at a nice hot temperature. Fast and pretty quiet.

I never bother putting the fiddly plastic "caps" on either the water reservoir or the cone. They don't actually add any functionality I can tell, and with the cone visible, I can see the soaking the grounds are getting. I sometimes "spin" the cone on its base while brewing, so as to help ensure things are wetted evenly.

I definitely switched to a coarser grind with the Moccamaster.

They recently introduced a new thermal carafe for my model, but mine came with the one that's been out there for years. It works pretty well, but I think I'd prefer the pour of the newest shape. Its heat retention is decent, but Zojirushi are the kings of heat retention in all things. I have several Zojirushi travel coffee thingies, and they're fantastic. They lock beautifully too, with great flip-top lids.

Mine only came with 3 "get started" filters, which I thought was rather cheap.

The only functional downside identified to date is that I had to train my wife to not just grab the carafe and start pouring as soon as the brewing sound was gone. It takes a while for the dripping out of the cone to end; with our old maker, when the sound was gone, that meant you could pour with no real mess. I encouraged her to learn to take a look to see if the dripping had finished yet.

[retired-early]

I’ve had that model for around 7 years. Used everyday. Best coffee maker I’ve owned. Haven’t had any yellowing, just let it air dry after use. Use coffee maker cleaner a couple times a year.

[meanween]

The Bonavita is also SCA certified and has lots of good reviews for the half the price. I have the older version of this one and it's going on ten years old.
https://www.amazon.com/Bonavita-One-Tou ... FO1HK?th=1

About a year ago my trusty Bonavita finally kicked the bucket. I used the SCA's list of certified brewers and picked up a Braun Multiserv from a local big box store with a 20% coupon figuring it might brew great coffee having an SCA certification AND would do it on a budget. My wife immediately rejected it declaring the Bonavita's coffee just tasted better. I'm with her, but we've been living with it because it's good but not great. What bugs me the most is that the Braun has a bunch of quirks that make it a terrible machine. Drip stop doesn't work well, digital display has one section that stopped working after a few months, the clean mode can be hit accidentally and once it's on... there's no resetting it till it's done. I guess the point of this the SCA certification is nice but I'd take it with a grain of salt....

I might have to get my wife a Moccamaster to apologize for the last year of sub-par coffee

[TomatoTomahto]

I might have to get my wife a Moccamaster to apologize for the last year of sub-par coffee

Coffee is my "love language*," whatever that means, so I say go for it.

* what it means in my case is 25 years of getting up 15 minutes before my wife to make coffee.

[Rex66]

The plastics make u feel it’s “cheap” but as mentioned the temperature control is great. Works best if u brew full pots.

[8foot7]

It is a simple and delightful machine that does one thing and does it well - make coffee (or, I suppose, hot water that then drips over coffee). I bought my parents one as well.

[8foot7]

I sometimes "spin" the cone on its base while brewing, so as to help ensure things are wetted evenly.

I leave the drip stop on until the water goes from 10 to 7ish, then stir the water/ground mix in the cone, then release the stop.

[SevenBridgesRoad]

We've been very happy with our Moccamaster, the 10-cup version. Coupled with a Breville grinder, we enjoy great coffee every morning.

[nisiprius]

I think the Achilles heel of coffeemakers is that most of them, even well-known brand names, don't deliver hot enough water to the brew basket. I don't know why this is. It's certainly obvious that our Moccamaster draws every one of its stated 1,400 watts, as I found when I tripped a circuit breaker because I didn't know that it was sharing a circuit with our microwave in our new house.

Before I got the Moccamaster, I bought a $75 coffeemaker with SCA certification, the (discontinued) Presto Scandinavian Design, which had a second heater in the place just above the drip spout. It made coffee just as good as the Moccamaster, but it burned out in just over a year.

I don't know why so many sleek-looking, name-brand, pretty expensive coffeemakers (Braun, Mr. Coffee, Keurig) can't do it right. There can't be any magic to heating water to the right temperature and sizing and arranging a bunch of small holes to drip it in, and let it escape at the right rate. I don't know why Keurigs aren't better, either, since that's a more closely-controlled process, but I assume that everything is compromised in the interest of speed.

[sunny_socal]

The Bonavita is also SCA certified and has lots of good reviews for the half the price. I have the older version of this one and it's going on ten years old.
https://www.amazon.com/Bonavita-One-Tou ... FO1HK?th=1

Well snap! I had the Bonavita in my Amazon wish list for years but it's now marked as "discontinued." I didn't think to look for a newer model!

Oh well, all the Moccamaster models have consistently good review. Even the people who list complaints still rate them 4/5 stars! Plus I do have a personal connection - my aunt has a Moccamaster and I've had hundreds of coffees at her house growing up. I swear, she made the best coffee on the planet.

Buy once, cry once

[coffeeblack]

Always drink good coffee. Do it black.

[TomatoTomahto]

Always drink good coffee. Do it black.

My son visited a friend in Bulgaria. There the question is asked (less PC but the gist remains), "would you like your coffee black, or stupid?"

[bikechuck]

I bought a Moca Master and a Baratza Virtuoso burr grinder as a gift to myself when I retired 6 years ago. I like it and more importantly my wife likes it too.

It is expensive and for whatever reason my carafe has never kept the coffee as hot as I would like so I consider that to be it's only weakness. That weakness is not too important to us as we usually make one pot of coffee in the morning and each have two cups before getting on with our day.

[rebellovw]

I love my Moccamaster - best coffee maker ever.

[sunny_socal]

Always drink good coffee. Do it black.

Well if it's good coffee I indeed drink it black. I only add cream if it's bad coffee (eg. $tarbucks) I swear they must know something about coffee in Europe. Even the guys peddling coffee at subway stations know what they're doing! I don't think I've had a bad cup.

In the USA bad coffee is everywhere, notably gas stations and 7-11. And I see they're all using Bunn coffee machines, what are they doing wrong?

Shockingly enough, McDonald's has possibly the best "value" coffee from all the bad options. Locally it's $0.60 including tax for a "senior coffee" (ie. small) It's about 50% discount. That's my frugal BH tip of the day!

[jayjayc]

In the USA bad coffee is everywhere, notably gas stations and 7-11. And I see they're all using Bunn coffee machines, what are they doing wrong?

My guess...they scoop cheap pre-ground coffee from a gigantic tub. No machine or technique can fix that.

[teamDE]

I bought a Moca Master and a Baratza Virtuoso burr grinder as a gift to myself when I retired 6 years ago. I like it and more importantly my wife likes it too.

It is expensive and for whatever reason my carafe has never kept the coffee as hot as I would like so I consider that to be it's only weakness. That weakness is not too important to us as we usually make one pot of coffee in the morning and each have two cups before getting on with our day.

Nice, I got a Baratza burr grinder, the cheaper/est model I think, back when I got the Bonavita. So going on ten yearsish of daily use as well. I occasionally make French press, clever dripper, or even espresso if I dig the machine out and that grinder has served well.

[punkinhead]

Nice, I got a Baratza burr grinder, the cheaper/est model I think, back when I got the Bonavita. So going on ten yearsish of daily use as well. I occasionally make French press, clever dripper, or even espresso if I dig the machine out and that grinder has served well.

What I like about Baratza is they sell repair parts. The motor in mine died last month after 10 or so years of daily use and I replaced the motor instead of buying a new grinder. It's pretty rare for consumer products to not be throwaways.

[coffeeblack]

Always drink good coffee. Do it black.

My son visited a friend in Bulgaria. There the question is asked (less PC but the gist remains), "would you like your coffee black, or stupid?"

Once you have coffeeblack you won't go back.

I couldn't resist.

[coffeeblack]

Always drink good coffee. Do it black.

Well if it's good coffee I indeed drink it black. I only add cream if it's bad coffee (eg. $tarbucks) I swear they must know something about coffee in Europe. Even the guys peddling coffee at subway stations know what they're doing! I don't think I've had a bad cup.

In the USA bad coffee is everywhere, notably gas stations and 7-11. And I see they're all using Bunn coffee machines, what are they doing wrong?

Shockingly enough, McDonald's has possibly the best "value" coffee from all the bad options. Locally it's $0.60 including tax for a "senior coffee" (ie. small) It's about 50% discount. That's my frugal BH tip of the day!

Isn't that interesting. I was in Europe recently. The coffee was amazing. I never put mild or cream and didn't need it. I don't know why they can't make it like that here.

[LifeIsGood]

I love the drip stop feature on my Mocamaster. I close it when the brew first starts and let the grounds saturate (aka - bloom) and then finish brewing.
Technivorm also sells factory reconditioned units at a substantial discount - about $100 less. Mine looked perfect. The only drawback is that they only have a 1 yr warranty vs 5 yrs for retail ones. They always show out of stock on their website but if you call there's a good chance they have some available.

[sunny_socal]

I love the drip stop feature on my Mocamaster. I close it when the brew first starts and let the grounds saturate (aka - bloom) and then finish brewing.
Technivorm also sells factory reconditioned units at a substantial discount - about $100 less. Mine looked perfect. The only drawback is that they only have a 1 yr warranty vs 5 yrs for retail ones. They always show out of stock on their website but if you call there's a good chance they have some available.

Wish I had known that! I'd have no problem with a used unit from the factory.

Thanks to the BH enablers I guess I'll be buying a 'real' burr grinder as well I currently have a Cuisinart originally purchased from Costco but per online reviews a proper burr grinder is better.

And as luck would have it - my old Zojirushi started working again! Well - I'm sticking with the new gear. Good coffee here I come!

[Deighve]

I have the single cup version. It is amazing.

[nisiprius]

...I love the drip stop feature on my Mocamaster. I close it when the brew first starts and let the grounds saturate (aka - bloom) and then finish brewing...

Actually, that's one of my complaints. The valve is cheap, cheesy, and imprecise. On three cones in a row it has eventually developed problem like not opening fully when opened, or not opening at all. You can fiddle around with trying to bend the bit of springy metal, but the fact of the matter is that it has not been well engineered. Sooner or later I have given up and just torn out the metal vane closure so that it is full open all the time.

How can you respect a company that charges $22.50 for a cone? $85 for a carafe but stopper sold separately for $15? $15 for a brew basket lid? That's not exorbitant, it's abusive. And, no, the places that sell them sell them at those prices, no discounts. And those parts are not durable. You would think that a brew basket lid would last, but the heat from the (properly-heated) water made ours develop cracks that eventually resulted in it split in half, and many experiments with SuperGlue failed.

[TomatoTomahto]

...I love the drip stop feature on my Mocamaster. I close it when the brew first starts and let the grounds saturate (aka - bloom) and then finish brewing...

Actually, that's one of my complaints. The valve is cheap, cheesy, and imprecise. On three cones in a row it has eventually developed problem like not opening fully when opened, or not opening at all. You can fiddle around with trying to bend the bit of springy metal, but the fact of the matter is that it has not been well engineered. Sooner or later I have given up and just torn out the metal vane closure so that it is full open all the time.

How can you respect a company that charges $22.50 for a cone? $85 for a carafe but stopper sold separately for $15? $15 for a brew basket lid? That's not exorbitant, it's abusive. And, no, the places that sell them sell them at those prices, no discounts. And those parts are not durable. You would think that a brew basket lid would last, but the heat from the (properly-heated) water made ours develop cracks that eventually resulted in it split in half, and many experiments with SuperGlue failed.

I don't have the drip stop version, and I wish that I did, although perhaps I'd have bad luck as you have with it. I have to manually turn off my brew after the first few streams come out, stir the grounds, wait a moment, and proceed.

I have the glass carafe and have not had any problems (other than the lid becoming loose over time and inclined to detach) with it or the brew basket lid. Both lids seem pretty sturdy and thick enough not to develop cracks; you're not putting them in the dishwasher, are you?

[bertilak]

...I love the drip stop feature on my Mocamaster. I close it when the brew first starts and let the grounds saturate (aka - bloom) and then finish brewing...

Actually, that's one of my complaints. The valve is cheap, cheesy, and imprecise. On three cones in a row it has eventually developed problem like not opening fully when opened, or not opening at all. You can fiddle around with trying to bend the bit of springy metal, but the fact of the matter is that it has not been well engineered. Sooner or later I have given up and just torn out the metal vane closure so that it is full open all the time.

How can you respect a company that charges $22.50 for a cone? $85 for a carafe but stopper sold separately for $15? $15 for a brew basket lid? That's not exorbitant, it's abusive. And, no, the places that sell them sell them at those prices, no discounts. And those parts are not durable. You would think that a brew basket lid would last, but the heat from the (properly-heated) water made ours develop cracks that eventually resulted in it split in half, and many experiments with SuperGlue failed.

I feel your pain on all that.

My basket has also had a drip-stop-ectomy. Actually, this is my second replacement basket. I ponied up for the full (exorbitant) replacement cost once but that also failed and now mine too is full-open all the time. Since I can no longer close it to ensure complete saturation at the beginning, I need to tend it for a while, rotating the basket, to ensure full saturation. This adds to the fiddly nature of its use but, anyway, it makes good coffee.

[keith6014]

is there a hight quality coffee maker for 1 or 2 person?

[bertilak]

is there a hight quality coffee maker for 1 or 2 person?

There are two of us. I make 1 liter of coffee every morning, enough for a large mug each with extra for a refill.

I make 0.75 liter for days when we don't want our full dose.

[keith6014]

is there a hight quality coffee maker for 1 or 2 person?

There are two of us. I make 1 liter of coffee every morning, enough for a large mug each with extra for a refill.

I make 0.75 liter for days when we don't want our full dose.

oh wow.

[TomatoTomahto]

is there a hight quality coffee maker for 1 or 2 person?

No personal experience of this, but likely a great machine. Still pricey though. We are usually a two person household and don’t find the 10 cup maker too much for us; 2-3 marked cups are like an American mug full.

The Technivorm Moccamaster Cup One is a unique and effective single cup coffee maker. There's no better way to make a 10 oz single serving of SCA-approved coffee in 4 minutes flat. While brewing, a pulse action pre-immersion system blooms the coffee bed. The cone shape of the brew basket is designed to steep coffee grounds perfectly to extract a full bodied, flavorful, aromatic drink. Included with the Cup One is a 10 oz porcelain mug and 80 #1 filters, as well as a removable cup holder for various mug sizes.

[ktdintex]

Don’t forget the grinder part of the equation, as well as getting good beans. Honestly, the coffee maker matters way, way less. I often use a $10 pour over (V60) with a very nice grinder, and it makes outstanding coffee.

If you’re using preground coffee, it’s a waste of money IMO to spend a lot on a coffee maker.

If you’re using a ~$100 grinder, such as a Baratza Encore, look into something around the $300-$400 range, such as a Fellow Ode 2 or Lagom Mini. With fresh beans, you’ll taste a noticeable improvement in the cup.

I’m not saying you need to spend a lot on coffee, but if you’re going to spend a lot on a coffee maker, invest in a good grinder and fresh beans. Otherwise it’s like putting cheap tires on a Ferrari.

[sunny_socal]

Don’t forget the grinder part of the equation, as well as getting good beans. Honestly, the coffee maker matters way, way less. I often use a $10 pour over (V60) with a very nice grinder, and it makes outstanding coffee.

If you’re using preground coffee, it’s a waste of money IMO to spend a lot on a coffee maker.

If you’re using a ~$100 grinder, such as a Baratza Encore, look into something around the $300-$400 range, such as a Fellow Ode 2 or Lagom Mini. With fresh beans, you’ll taste a noticeable improvement in the cup.

I’m not saying you need to spend a lot on coffee, but if you’re going to spend a lot on a coffee maker, invest in a good grinder and fresh beans. Otherwise it’s like putting cheap tires on a Ferrari.

Noted. Christmas gift idea!

[texasdiver]

I was going to buy one then measured it and discovered it wasn't going to fit under my cabinets. So I got the Bonavita instead. The Technivorms are tall. Make sure it will fit your space.

[Scot12]

The Bonavita is also SCA certified and has lots of good reviews for the half the price. I have the older version of this one and it's going on ten years old.
https://www.amazon.com/Bonavita-One-Tou ... FO1HK?th=1

I had had the Bonavita for over three years. It stopped working so I ended up getting the Moccamaster figuring it will last longer. They both made great coffee.

[UNCHEEL]

I'll be curious to hear how you like the Moccamaster vs the Zojirushi. I've had my eye on them over time, but I've been using the Zojirushi for about 8 years and really am very happy with it. It's one of the few other brands that brews at the proper temperature. And, I like having the timing feature that the Moccamaster doesn't have. Of course, that means I have to grind my beans the night before.

For those shopping around and not in a hurry, it's worth monitoring Amazon. Prices vary quite a bit at time and reductions vary by model.

[lazydavid]

I'll be curious to hear how you like the Moccamaster vs the Zojirushi. I've had my eye on them over time, but I've been using the Zojirushi for about 8 years and really am very happy with it. It's one of the few other brands that brews at the proper temperature. And, I like having the timing feature that the Moccamaster doesn't have. Of course, that means I have to grind my beans the night before.

Seems a shame to go through the effort of getting a brewer that brews at the correct temperature, and then spoiling all that by feeding it stale coffee...

[sunny_socal]

I'll be curious to hear how you like the Moccamaster vs the Zojirushi. I've had my eye on them over time, but I've been using the Zojirushi for about 8 years and really am very happy with it. It's one of the few other brands that brews at the proper temperature. And, I like having the timing feature that the Moccamaster doesn't have. Of course, that means I have to grind my beans the night before.

For those shopping around and not in a hurry, it's worth monitoring Amazon. Prices vary quite a bit at time and reductions vary by model.

If you're still committed to the Zojirushi you can improve the performance by doing the "hot water tube hack." I forget where I found it, could have been simply in the Amazon review comments.

Anyway, a minor design flow in the Z is how hot water is routed through the cold water reservoir. Although it may be close to optimal temperature at the point of generation it cools during the long journey up the exposed pipe. The mod involves taking apart the top half of the coffee maker and putting a piece of PEX pipe around the water tube. (Just buy it had home depot, it's something like 1/2" size and only about a foot long - take the tube from the Z with you to determine the correct dimensions.) Then reassemble. The hot water will now be much warmer upon reaching the sprinkle spout!

Sorry for the disgusting gunk around my water tank.... I guess I should clean it! (Good grief! Looks like a bathroom stall at a freeway rest stop! )

[sunny_socal]

I'll be curious to hear how you like the Moccamaster vs the Zojirushi. I've had my eye on them over time, but I've been using the Zojirushi for about 8 years and really am very happy with it. It's one of the few other brands that brews at the proper temperature. And, I like having the timing feature that the Moccamaster doesn't have. Of course, that means I have to grind my beans the night before.

Seems a shame to go through the effort of getting a brewer that brews at the correct temperature, and then spoiling all that by feeding it stale coffee...

Does the coffee become stale just from being exposed overnight? For me grinding in the morning is not really an option, the entire family is still asleep. Nothing louder than a coffee grinder! (One of my pet peeves when visiting any local coffee shop - multiple grinders running and I can't hear myself think, and a barista yells "CAN I GET ANYTHING STARTED FOR YOU?!!!! when I'm just 1-2 spots from the head of the line. I've waited 20 minutes, I can wait one more, thanks! )

[Go Blue 99]

I'm about to purchase a Moccamaster Cup One (today it's on sale for $216 at Amazon). I normally use a K-cup brewer for speed, but want an option for better coffee when I have more time.

[lazydavid]

Does the coffee become stale just from being exposed overnight? For me grinding in the morning is not really an option, the entire family is still asleep. Nothing louder than a coffee grinder!

It does, unfortunately. All the volatiles that give coffee its complex flavor start dissipating as soon as the beans are broken.

The adage is "Coffee that is not roasted within 15 months after picking, ground within 15 days of roasting, and brewed within 15 minutes of grinding, is stale". It's not perfectly scientific, but is directionally accurate.

Every house is different, but with the bedroom doors closed, our grinder (a giant commercial one, so not exactly quiet) generally does not wake anyone.

[8foot7]

Does the coffee become stale just from being exposed overnight? For me grinding in the morning is not really an option, the entire family is still asleep. Nothing louder than a coffee grinder!

It does, unfortunately. All the volatiles that give coffee its complex flavor start dissipating as soon as the beans are broken.

The adage is "Coffee that is not roasted within 15 months after picking, ground within 15 days of roasting, and brewed within 15 minutes of grinding, is stale". It's not perfectly scientific, but is directionally accurate.

Every house is different, but with the bedroom doors closed, our grinder (a giant commercial one, so not exactly quiet) generally does not wake anyone.

I take our burr grinder out to the screened-in porch in the morning, grind, and then come back inside. It's certainly chilly but lasts only 45 seconds or so, and everyone can remain asleep.

[Lawrence of Suburbia]

Machine coffee = active management

Pourover coffee = the index

I go with the index