Wood damaged near downspout (updated with a new question)

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student
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Wood damaged near downspout (updated with a new question)

Post by student »

I just discovered that the wood near the ledge of the roof is damaged/rotten near a downspout by the window.
Image
It is by the window that is mostly covered by curtain. I only noticed it today. May I assume that this is not urgent enough and I can wait until spring/summer? (This is a upper unit in a condo.)

Thanks.

See update below.
Last edited by student on Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
livesoft
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by livesoft »

Look again when it is really raining and see what you think.

Is the downspout clogged?
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CAsage
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by CAsage »

I would concur you can wait until it's warmer or dryer and safe for ladder work. That kind of damage takes time. I would check that the rain gutters are not full of dirt/leaves (causing water level to increase and overflow to fascia board). And check the downspouts and the metal edging too. There's something probably wrong with the design that caused this. Board needs replacing and doesn't look easy.
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student
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by student »

livesoft wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:14 pm Look again when it is really raining and see what you think.

Is the downspout clogged?
Thanks for the reply. I don't think it is clogged. It is below freezing right now. My understanding is that the condo plans to replace all the gutters in all the units in the next couple of years. So I thought if this is not urgent, they can fix it at the same time.
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by student »

CAsage wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:18 pm I would concur you can wait until it's warmer or dryer and safe for ladder work. That kind of damage takes time. I would check that the rain gutters are not full of dirt/leaves (causing water level to increase and overflow to fascia board). And check the downspouts and the metal edging too. There's something probably wrong with the design that caused this. Board needs replacing and doesn't look easy.
Thanks for the reply. It is winter and icy here. My understanding is that the condo plans to replace all the gutters in all the units in the next couple of years. So I thought if this is not urgent, they can fix it at the same time.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by ResearchMed »

student wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:22 pm
CAsage wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:18 pm I would concur you can wait until it's warmer or dryer and safe for ladder work. That kind of damage takes time. I would check that the rain gutters are not full of dirt/leaves (causing water level to increase and overflow to fascia board). And check the downspouts and the metal edging too. There's something probably wrong with the design that caused this. Board needs replacing and doesn't look easy.
Thanks for the reply. It is winter and icy here. My understanding is that the condo plans to replace all the gutters in all the units in the next couple of years. So I thought if this is not urgent, they can fix it at the same time.

Assuming this is a condo association responsibility, there may be some responsibility for you to at least report it to them in a timely fashion when you are aware of it (e.g., now/soon), so they can mitigate any further damage/costs.

It might suggest that there is other similar deterioration, and "in the next couple of years" perhaps shouldn't be delayed too much longer. But that depends upon the nature of the specific damage, issues elsewhere, and likelihood of additional deterioration, etc.

How high is this? Could it be checked by someone on a reasonable ladder?

RM
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student
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by student »

ResearchMed wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:39 pm
student wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:22 pm
CAsage wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:18 pm I would concur you can wait until it's warmer or dryer and safe for ladder work. That kind of damage takes time. I would check that the rain gutters are not full of dirt/leaves (causing water level to increase and overflow to fascia board). And check the downspouts and the metal edging too. There's something probably wrong with the design that caused this. Board needs replacing and doesn't look easy.
Thanks for the reply. It is winter and icy here. My understanding is that the condo plans to replace all the gutters in all the units in the next couple of years. So I thought if this is not urgent, they can fix it at the same time.

Assuming this is a condo association responsibility, there may be some responsibility for you to at least report it to them in a timely fashion when you are aware of it (e.g., now/soon), so they can mitigate any further damage/costs.

It might suggest that there is other similar deterioration, and "in the next couple of years" perhaps shouldn't be delayed too much longer. But that depends upon the nature of the specific damage, issues elsewhere, and likelihood of additional deterioration, etc.

How high is this? Could it be checked by someone on a reasonable ladder?

RM
Good point regarding my responsibility to at least report it to them in a timely fashion. The building is two-story high.
billaster
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by billaster »

You can see frozen water on the brick under the gutter. What appears to be happening is the end cap on the gutter up against the brick is leaking.

I would have someone get up there on a ladder and patch the end cap from inside the gutter. Depending on conditions you may be able to use a caulk, but if the inside of the gutter is wet, it won't stick well. In that case you could use something like wet patch roof cement. This is thick black stuff but if you are patching from inside the gutter, it won't be seen.

The fascia board is just an appearance board that covers up the ends of the rafters to keep out weather and birds. What I would be more concerned about is up against the brick. It's possible that the brick veneer stops just below the gutter and is covered by a trim board. Water that you see on the outside of the brick could also be running behind the brick and into the wood framing. Hard to tell without a closer look.

If it is the gutter end cap leaking, it's a 15-minute fix with patch cement. Once you stop the leak, there is no rush to fix the wood fascia trim. It isn't structural. That can wait until they replace the gutters.
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by student »

billaster wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:58 pm You can see frozen water on the brick under the gutter. What appears to be happening is the end cap on the gutter up against the brick is leaking.

I would have someone get up there on a ladder and patch the end cap from inside the gutter. Depending on conditions you may be able to use a caulk, but if the inside of the gutter is wet, it won't stick well. In that case you could use something like wet patch roof cement. This is thick black stuff but if you are patching from inside the gutter, it won't be seen.

The fascia board is just an appearance board that covers up the ends of the rafters to keep out weather and birds. What I would be more concerned about is up against the brick. It's possible that the brick veneer stops just below the gutter and is covered by a trim board. Water that you see on the outside of the brick could also be running behind the brick and into the wood framing. Hard to tell without a closer look.

If it is the gutter end cap leaking, it's a 15-minute fix with patch cement. Once you stop the leak, there is no rush to fix the wood fascia trim. It isn't structural. That can wait until they replace the gutters.
Thanks for the info.
billaster
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by billaster »

It might help if you can get a couple pictures hanging your camera out the window to view the brick and wood junction square on. I would like to see where the wood trim overlaps the face of the brick vertically. That might give you a better idea of whether or not water is able to get behind the brick. It might be hard to see because the downspout is in the way.
JayB
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by JayB »

billaster wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:58 pm You can see frozen water on the brick under the gutter. What appears to be happening is the end cap on the gutter up against the brick is leaking.

I would have someone get up there on a ladder and patch the end cap from inside the gutter. Depending on conditions you may be able to use a caulk, but if the inside of the gutter is wet, it won't stick well. In that case you could use something like wet patch roof cement. This is thick black stuff but if you are patching from inside the gutter, it won't be seen.

The fascia board is just an appearance board that covers up the ends of the rafters to keep out weather and birds. What I would be more concerned about is up against the brick. It's possible that the brick veneer stops just below the gutter and is covered by a trim board. Water that you see on the outside of the brick could also be running behind the brick and into the wood framing. Hard to tell without a closer look.

If it is the gutter end cap leaking, it's a 15-minute fix with patch cement. Once you stop the leak, there is no rush to fix the wood fascia trim. It isn't structural. That can wait until they replace the gutters.
Before investigating whether or not the end cap is leaking, it would be worthwhile to check out if the inlet to the downspout is even partially obstructed inside the gutter. If so, the perfect place for water to overflow during a heavy rainfall would be where you're seeing damage. Once upon a time, I duct-taped a camera -- with movie mode on -- to the end of a long pole and stuck it out the window to inspect what's going on inside the gutter. Maybe you can think of something like this to get an image of what's up there.
twh
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by twh »

This didn't just happen this winter. More than likely the roof above that gutter has inadequate (or missing) flashing along the brick side and water is infiltrating by that flashing and causing the rot.
biscuit5
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by biscuit5 »

It looks like the elbow is installed backwards/upside down. Look at the arrows, B slides into A, though the tapered part of A (circled) should slide into B.

:?:
-
Image
-
also if there's no drip edge or gutter apron above the gutter on the fascia, water can run behind the gutter causing a rot issue like this.
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student
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by student »

billaster wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:13 pm It might help if you can get a couple pictures hanging your camera out the window to view the brick and wood junction square on. I would like to see where the wood trim overlaps the face of the brick vertically. That might give you a better idea of whether or not water is able to get behind the brick. It might be hard to see because the downspout is in the way.
Unfortunately, I haven't opened the windows for years and the spring broke so I don't think my windows can be opened anymore.
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student
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by student »

JayB wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:33 pm
billaster wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:58 pm You can see frozen water on the brick under the gutter. What appears to be happening is the end cap on the gutter up against the brick is leaking.

I would have someone get up there on a ladder and patch the end cap from inside the gutter. Depending on conditions you may be able to use a caulk, but if the inside of the gutter is wet, it won't stick well. In that case you could use something like wet patch roof cement. This is thick black stuff but if you are patching from inside the gutter, it won't be seen.

The fascia board is just an appearance board that covers up the ends of the rafters to keep out weather and birds. What I would be more concerned about is up against the brick. It's possible that the brick veneer stops just below the gutter and is covered by a trim board. Water that you see on the outside of the brick could also be running behind the brick and into the wood framing. Hard to tell without a closer look.

If it is the gutter end cap leaking, it's a 15-minute fix with patch cement. Once you stop the leak, there is no rush to fix the wood fascia trim. It isn't structural. That can wait until they replace the gutters.
Before investigating whether or not the end cap is leaking, it would be worthwhile to check out if the inlet to the downspout is even partially obstructed inside the gutter. If so, the perfect place for water to overflow during a heavy rainfall would be where you're seeing damage. Once upon a time, I duct-taped a camera -- with movie mode on -- to the end of a long pole and stuck it out the window to inspect what's going on inside the gutter. Maybe you can think of something like this to get an image of what's up there.
Thanks for the suggestion.
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student
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by student »

twh wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:51 pm This didn't just happen this winter. More than likely the roof above that gutter has inadequate (or missing) flashing along the brick side and water is infiltrating by that flashing and causing the rot.
Thanks for the info. The condo plans to replace gutters in all units in the next couple of years.
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student
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by student »

biscuit5 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:47 pm It looks like the elbow is installed backwards/upside down. Look at the arrows, B slides into A, though the tapered part of A (circled) should slide into B.

:?:
-
Image
-
also if there's no drip edge or gutter apron above the gutter on the fascia, water can run behind the gutter causing a rot issue like this.
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
JayB
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by JayB »

student wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:31 am
JayB wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:33 pm Before investigating whether or not the end cap is leaking, it would be worthwhile to check out if the inlet to the downspout is even partially obstructed inside the gutter. If so, the perfect place for water to overflow during a heavy rainfall would be where you're seeing damage. Once upon a time, I duct-taped a camera -- with movie mode on -- to the end of a long pole and stuck it out the window to inspect what's going on inside the gutter. Maybe you can think of something like this to get an image of what's up there.
Thanks for the suggestion.
If it's hard to get a ladder up there to inspect the gutter, perhaps you know someone who has a drone with camera.
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student
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by student »

JayB wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:29 am
student wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:31 am
JayB wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:33 pm Before investigating whether or not the end cap is leaking, it would be worthwhile to check out if the inlet to the downspout is even partially obstructed inside the gutter. If so, the perfect place for water to overflow during a heavy rainfall would be where you're seeing damage. Once upon a time, I duct-taped a camera -- with movie mode on -- to the end of a long pole and stuck it out the window to inspect what's going on inside the gutter. Maybe you can think of something like this to get an image of what's up there.
Thanks for the suggestion.
If it's hard to get a ladder up there to inspect the gutter, perhaps you know someone who has a drone with camera.
Thanks for the suggestion. I guess I will let the condo association takes care of it.
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student
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by student »

Thank you everyone for the response. To avoid "negligence," I have informed the management company.
sureshoe
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout

Post by sureshoe »

livesoft wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:14 pm Look again when it is really raining and see what you think.
This is good advice for everyone's house. I take a stroll outside every so often in the middle of a heavy rain to make sure there isn't water where I don't want it.

In this case, the roof isn't going to fall in over the next month or two probably, but if there is a good amount of water running down the side of the building, it could turn into a catastrophe unexpectedly quick.
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student
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout (updated with a new question)

Post by student »

This is an update. They have fixed the issue.
Image

It turns out that since they were planning on replacing the gutter system, they decided to do this ahead of schedule. This brings me to the next question.
Image
I assume such a gap is not a big issue?

Thanks again for your help.
livesoft
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout (updated with a new question)

Post by livesoft »

Once again: Look at it when it's raining and report back.
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout (updated with a new question)

Post by sleepy06 »

Just an extra place for debris to enter if there are trees near. Otherwise, does not seem to be a problem for water flow.
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout (updated with a new question)

Post by student »

livesoft wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:07 pm Once again: Look at it when it's raining and report back.
I will keep an eye on it.
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout (updated with a new question)

Post by student »

sleepy06 wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:18 pm Just an extra place for debris to enter if there are trees near. Otherwise, does not seem to be a problem for water flow.
Thanks. There are no trees nearby.
Globalviewer58
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout (updated with a new question)

Post by Globalviewer58 »

How is the downspout attached to the gutter in your photo? One method is to use a down tube that extends down from the gutter into the downspout. The downspout is then attached to the down tube with sheet metal screws or pop rivets. Without a secure connection between gutter and downspout the two pieces may move independently and not properly channel the water.

You can review YouTube videos on downspout installation to get the idea.
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student
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout (updated with a new question)

Post by student »

Globalviewer58 wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 2:09 am How is the downspout attached to the gutter in your photo? One method is to use a down tube that extends down from the gutter into the downspout. The downspout is then attached to the down tube with sheet metal screws or pop rivets. Without a secure connection between gutter and downspout the two pieces may move independently and not properly channel the water.

You can review YouTube videos on downspout installation to get the idea.
Thanks for the info. I went outside and took a look. I now understand why there is a gap, the front was flushed and the tube is a bit longer than the width of the gutter. I don't see any sheet metal screws/pop rivets at the top on the outside. But there is a bracket attached the wall much further down. I applied a small force and it did not move. I guess I will pay attention to it when it is windy or is raining heavily. Thank you.
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout (updated with a new question)

Post by biscuit5 »

student wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:09 pm This brings me to the next question.
Image
I assume such a gap is not a big issue?

Thanks again for your help.
Is there a drop outlet installed in the gutter? See image. It doesn't look like it, and the downspout is the wrong size. That install would not sit w/ me personally.

Image
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student
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout (updated with a new question)

Post by student »

biscuit5 wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 6:50 pm
student wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:09 pm This brings me to the next question.
Image
I assume such a gap is not a big issue?

Thanks again for your help.
Is there a drop outlet installed in the gutter? See image. It doesn't look like it, and the downspout is the wrong size. That install would not sit w/ me personally.

Image
Thanks for the response. I don't know as I could not see into it. (If I use a ladder, I will probably fall because of my clumsiness.) I will pay close attention to it when it rains heavily.
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout (updated with a new question)

Post by andypanda »

"That install would not sit w/ me personally."

No kidding. It's a hack job. I really don't like the way the top downspout (upper left, on the shingles) doesn't appear to reach into the gutter. Without seeing it up close I can't really tell, but it looks like there's going to be a lot of splashing when it empties into the gutter when there's a hard rain. And that's another way water gets on the wood behind a gutter
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout (updated with a new question)

Post by student »

andypanda wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 6:58 am "That install would not sit w/ me personally."

No kidding. It's a hack job. I really don't like the way the top downspout (upper left, on the shingles) doesn't appear to reach into the gutter. Without seeing it up close I can't really tell, but it looks like there's going to be a lot of splashing when it empties into the gutter when there's a hard rain. And that's another way water gets on the wood behind a gutter
Thanks for the info. Maybe I should inform the condo manager.
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout (updated with a new question)

Post by andypanda »

Sure, send them the pics and ask if they think this looks like a proper job.
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Re: Wood damaged near downspout (updated with a new question)

Post by student »

livesoft wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:07 pm Once again: Look at it when it's raining and report back.
Reporting back. We had a snow storm and things are melting now. It seems to be doing its job.
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