Proactively replace valves under sinks, toilets

[mrmass]

Hello, I'm looking to replace a bathroom faucet or two or four. I tested out turning off the water under the sink and it didn't turn it off completely.

It feels like I'm going to break it if I try to turn it more. The valves feel like plastic with a chrome finish on them.

Additionally, I need to fix or replace my dishwasher and noticed the knob half broken on that too.

I'm aware I can turn off the house water but maybe while it's off I should replace all the valves with something a bit more formidable. Maybe? If so what type of valve would be suitable?

Thank you

[mhc]

Use quarter turn ball valves. This is on my todo list. You probably have gate valves. Last time I replaced my kitchen faucet, the gate valvel had come apart and clogged my new faucet.

My house was built in 1998. It is very easy to turn of the water to the house and drain the pipes. Then I can remove a gate valve and replace it in about 5 minutes assuming I can reuse the brass band on the pipe. It is really simple. Watch a youtube video or get a knowledgable friend to help.

You may also consider changing the supply lines while you change the valves.

[testing321]

I replaced a few and now turnoff the water supply to the house since the valve to do that is in the basement and easy to turn.

[preach]

This topic should probably be in the Consumer Issues area.

Use quarter turn ball valves. This is on my todo list. You probably have gate valves. Last time I replaced my kitchen faucet, the gate valvel had come apart and clogged my new faucet.

I agree with this. I've done it before myself and highly recommend Brasscraft US made valves (they have some made in china so watch out). If you have copper pipes, solder them. If you have pex, they have valves for that too. Quarter turn ball valves all the way.

My house was built in 1998. It is very easy to turn of the water to the house and drain the pipes. Then I can remove a gate valve and replace it in about 5 minutes assuming I can reuse the brass band on the pipe. It is really simple. Watch a youtube video or get a knowledgable friend to help.

What you're describing is a compression valve that fits onto copper pipe. Compression is fine, I prefer soldering, but again it's personal preference. Don't ever reuse the brass rings though, always put a new one on if you take the valve off.

[Skip Towne]

I assume you are not a plumber or will be calling a plumber - something sometimes advised when you need plumbing )

But I do a lot of this simple stuff myself, so I get it.

The newer quarter-turn type ball valves are light years better than the old-style that you see are now all corroded. either they don't rust up like the old-style ones did - or they are all too new to have a problem yet.

Seems like everytime I replace a toilet fill valve or faucet with the old style valve, i needed to either just use the house main shut-off and admit the fixture shut-off doesn't work or I replaced the old style valve while its shut off.

3 tips:
- never do plumbing when the hardware store is closed. You WILL need something you wish you could get right now.
- carefully consider if you might be opening pandora's box and starting the project might create a much bigger project that must be completed once you start. I.E old shoddy work, cast iron pipes or brass fittings, etc. These situations call for an experienced plumber wih all sorts of tools and a van full of parts on-hand
- never allow family members to video you while working. You don't need the Facebook visibility if things go wrong

Good luck!

[mkc]

Topic is now in Personal Consumer Issues -mod mkc

[mrmass]

I assume you are not a plumber or will be calling a plumber - something sometimes advised when you need plumbing )

But I do a lot of this simple stuff myself, so I get it.

The newer quarter-turn type ball valves are light years better than the old-style that you see are now all corroded. either they don't rust up like the old-style ones did - or they are all too new to have a problem yet.

Seems like everytime I replace a toilet fill valve or faucet with the old style valve, i needed to either just use the house main shut-off and admit the fixture shut-off doesn't work or I replaced the old style valve while its shut off.

3 tips:
- never do plumbing when the hardware store is closed. You WILL need something you wish you could get right now.
- carefully consider if you might be opening pandora's box and starting the project might create a much bigger project that must be completed once you start. I.E old shoddy work, cast iron pipes or brass fittings, etc. These situations call for an experienced plumber wih all sorts of tools and a van full of parts on-hand
- never allow family members to video you while working. You don't need the Facebook visibility if things go wrong

Good luck!

I replaced a the valve kit on a toilet a year ago. The feed pipe not the braided type...well it broke. Had to run to HD - yes it was open but I can't imagine if it wasn't.

[sailaway]

The key is, once you have functioning valves to exercise them. This is especially important if you have hard water, but just turn it off and back on regularly, or else you won't be able to turn it off completely eventually.

[Kenkat]

I will mention that if you are talking about the oblong shutoffs that look like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Plumb-Oval-Shuto ... B078KP5QQZ

…the shutoff handles are sometimes cheap plastic but the actual valve underneath is metal, so you can replace the plastic with a heavier duty metal shutoff handle without replacing the entire valve.

I don’t really care for these types of shutoff valves but if they are already in place, you have to weigh difficulty in replacing the entire valve vs. making them “good enough”.

[UNCHEEL]

Let me second the motion to replace old valves with ball valves (ones that have a short handle to rotate 90-degrees vs screwing open/closed). This is especially true for your whole house valves and ice maker. Old valves that don't work properly are a problem waiting to happen. Do multiple conversions at once to save on the plumber trips.

[mrmass]

I will mention that if you are talking about the oblong shutoffs that look like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Plumb-Oval-Shuto ... B078KP5QQZ

…the shutoff handles are sometimes cheap plastic but the actual valve underneath is metal, so you can replace the plastic with a heavier duty metal shutoff handle without replacing the entire valve.

I don’t really care for these types of shutoff valves but if they are already in place, you have to weigh difficulty in replacing the entire valve vs. making them “good enough”.

Those are what I have. Thank you

[mrmass]

The key is, once you have functioning valves to exercise them. This is especially important if you have hard water, but just turn it off and back on regularly, or else you won't be able to turn it off completely eventually.

Thanks for the advice

[sleepy06]

Let me second the motion to replace old valves with ball valves (ones that have a short handle to rotate 90-degrees vs screwing open/closed). This is especially true for your whole house valves and ice maker. Old valves that don't work properly are a problem waiting to happen. Do multiple conversions at once to save on the plumber trips.

+1. I like to call get a whole punch list done each time I have a plumber or electrician out. Saves a lot of headache and they like being able to efficiently use their time and often pass those savings on to me.

[Big Dog]

I also swap out valves, but only when servicing the specific item it feeds. IN other words, when the plumber replaced the fill valve on the toilet, he also changed the water line and handle at the wall to the 90 degree types as recommended.

Not sure if that counts as proactive.

[tortoise84]

Yeah, the originals in my house are Accor FlowTite 4ALL that have a push stop valve and permanently attached supply line. When I had to replace a toilet fill valve, I found that the rubber washer on the FlowTite supply line had degraded so I decided to just cut off the whole valve and replace it. I have 1/2" CPVC plumbing, so I used SharkBite quarter turn stop valves:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004XM5GE6/

They're also available as straight valves. The reason why I didn't use a CPVC valve welded to the pipe was because there wasn't much pipe sticking out of the wall, and the SharkBite can be easily replaced in the future if needed.

[mgensler]

Go with Dahl valves. Available at supply houses or online. If your old valve has a compression furrel you will need a puller to get it off.

[Cheez-It Guy]

3 tips:
- never do plumbing when the hardware store is closed. You WILL need something you wish you could get right now.
- carefully consider if you might be opening pandora's box and starting the project might create a much bigger project that must be completed once you start. I.E old shoddy work, cast iron pipes or brass fittings, etc. These situations call for an experienced plumber wih all sorts of tools and a van full of parts on-hand
- never allow family members to video you while working. You don't need the Facebook visibility if things go wrong

Wise words!

You could always hire this expert:

https://youtu.be/OP30okjpCko

He works cheap!

[Gryphon]

I have a bunch of the old style shutoff valves which started having issues after 20-25 years. I personally found it easier to replace the worn out washers rather than cut off or unsolder the old valve & install a new one. A kit with various size washers was inexpensive; it took a little trial & error to find the right size. I'd only replace the valve if I was already doing some major plumbing work (something more significant than replacing a faucet).

[sunsetting101]

You can try to find the model of the valves and obtain a datasheet of the valve model(s) to see how the internals work and query the Google oracle how reliable thee valve(s) are.

Things to consider:
- expect small leaks from old ball valves. It's impossible for the seats to form a complete seal with the ball. Especially if it's a metal to metal contact. If the seat is some plastic composite, it'll be a little worn. Imagine the water pressure being applied which forces the ball compressing against the seat every time the faucet is turned on. That plastic composite or metal seat will deform eventually. So sealing completely is expecting quite a bit. The key point is to ensure there isn't pressure buildup from the minor leak when you're assembling the piping together in a closed system as that'll mess up the torque you think you're applying.

- different metal materials touching will cause corrosion due to electrical potential differences. Ensure there's an adequate inert barrier like Teflon tape between dissimilar metal.

Ultimately, this is pretty minor. Oh yeah, your question. Home Depot says ball valve. They do sound pretty creditable.. but they also get more money with more frequent "repairs". Hmm..

[carolc]

I had an emergency leak situation at the kitchen sink last spring. The valves were very corroded. As a result, I had a plumber come in and proactively replace all the 17 year old valves in the house. Because I’m away for 3-4 months a year, this provides peace of mind.

carolc

[lthenderson]

Proactively replace valves under sinks, toilets

I tested out turning off the water under the sink and it didn't turn it off completely.

I don't proactively replace them. I have only seen them fail in the way you described and that is quite common. I just replace them at the time of the repair/remodel with something more substantial and call it good. My reason for not doing it proactively is that I have copper plumbing (PVC can be the same too) and there is only so much tube sticking from the wall. Every replacement shortens that which requires adding sleeves and extensions if not enough is left to put the new fitting on. The aesthetics look bad. If the valves were attached using compression fittings, the proactively replacing them might be in the cards if they no longer shut completely off.

[Chardo]

Regardless of the valves, I recommend replacing the toilet supply hose if it's more than about 15 years old. This is from experience. I had one burst while away from home for the night. Six figure insurance claim. I had just returned the day before from 2 weeks in Europe. If it had happened then, house would probably have been destroyed. It's 5 dollars and 5 minutes to replace.

[stan1]

In certain parts of the country houses were built in the 80s and 90s with water supply lines consisting of a single part with a standard gate valve and integrated copper flex tubing. If you have that get it replaced as soon as possible. I'd be surprised if any are still in use without failing, but its possible. Replace with a 1/4 turn ball valve which makes it easy to see when the water is on/off (such as if you want to shut off water to the toilet when you go on vacation).

[mrmass]

Thank you everyone. My valves are not soldered so that helps. Townhouse was built in 2003.

I've replaced 1 of 3 toilet water supply lines to the mesh ones. If I embark on this, I won't do it until spring since I'd rather not turn off the water during heating season.

[talzara]

Use quarter turn ball valves. This is on my todo list. You probably have gate valves. Last time I replaced my kitchen faucet, the gate valvel had come apart and clogged my new faucet.

In certain parts of the country houses were built in the 80s and 90s with water supply lines consisting of a single part with a standard gate valve and integrated copper flex tubing.

Most multi-turn valves that supply faucets are stop valves. Gate valves are uncommon, although I have seen them used.

Stop valves use a rubber gasket to block the flow of water. The rubber deteriorates over time as it is exposed to chlorine.

Gate valves do not have a gasket, as they rely on a metal-to-metal seal. They sealing surfaces have to be machined to tight tolerances to stop the water flow completely.

[28fe6]

I replace multi-turn valves (they aren't actually gate valves...) by brasscraft quarter turn valves any time I have to interact with them.

If the original valve used a compression connection, forget about getting the old compression ferrule off. You preferably cut the pipe shorter and use a new ferrule on a new section of pipe. If there's no room to cut the pipe shorter, it's usually not a problem to re-use the old ferrule and nut on the new valve.

[sunsetting101]

Thank you everyone. My valves are not soldered so that helps. Townhouse was built in 2003.

I've replaced 1 of 3 toilet water supply lines to the mesh ones. If I embark on this, I won't do it until spring since I'd rather not turn off the water during heating season.

Can you get someone to video record your work and have that person promise NOT TO HELP NO MATTER WHAT? We need our potential source of entertainment if this will be similar to the video posted above by Cheez-It Guy.

[enad]

If your fixtures are made by Delta, you can (if you know or don't know the model number) call their 800 number for customer service and the rep can work with you to figure out what kind of model you have and send you all the necessary replacement parts. This may also be true for Moen and/or other fixtures (Google it). They had me send the pictures of under the sink (taken with the camera pointing to the underside of the fixtures) and the top side from the top and from an angle and were able to identify the model number and send the cartridge which was leaking but also the seal for the main spout and all the chrome including the aerator on the faucet. They did this for 7 fixtures in the house. All free, no charge. Can't beat that for standing behind a lifetime guarantee.

If you do replace the valves for the toilets, sinks, kitchen, laundry, look at 1/4 turn ball valves with the metal handles. Get the kind that lets you remove the hose from the ball valve to the tank or ball valve to the fixtures (not the integrated kind)

[Harry Livermore]

The key is, once you have functioning valves to exercise them. This is especially important if you have hard water, but just turn it off and back on regularly, or else you won't be able to turn it off completely eventually.

+1
Cheers

[michaeljc70]

I recently replaced a toilet shutoff valve with a 1/4 turn. That is what I always use when replacing the older turn type. I got a new toilet and the old valve stuck out too far. I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but you can get push on ones at Home Depot so you don't have to solder it. They also have compression fitting ones. Some people (mostly plumbers) will tell you it isn't as good as soldering, won't last forever, etc. I think they are fine (nothing lasts forever). Also, in my case, it was too close to the drywall so I didn't really want to have to use a torch. The only tool I needed was a pipe cutter, though you could use a haxsaw.

[twh]

Like the OP, I turned off a shutoff for a toilet and the washer inside the shutoff had disintegrated and I had to shut the water off to the hose. After that, I replaced the all the valves guts for all the valves in the house. If you are building a new house, sure go with the 1/4 turn valves. More than likely, the valves are compression on copper pipe. Replacing those with a new valve is not the best option because you really don't want to have to deal with the existing compression ring - it may or may not leak after the new valve is installed. A better option is to just replace the guts of the existing valve. One popular company making these shutoff valves is BrassCraft and they even sell the guts are Home Depot.

[linuxizer]

. The only tool I needed was a pipe cutter, though you could use a haxsaw.

You *cannot* just use a hacksaw. You need the mating surface to be clean for the push-on/Sharkbite types. You have to deburr them as well. YouTube is your friend here.

[michaeljc70]

. The only tool I needed was a pipe cutter, though you could use a haxsaw.

You *cannot* just use a hacksaw. You need the mating surface to be clean for the push-on/Sharkbite types. You have to deburr them as well. YouTube is your friend here.

Of course you can use a hacksaw and deburr it. If you don't have a deburr tool you can use sandpaper. I do have a pipe cutter and deburr tool though. A pipe cutter makes a cleaner cut with less movement of the pipe and is of course better.

[twh]

. The only tool I needed was a pipe cutter, though you could use a haxsaw.

You *cannot* just use a hacksaw. You need the mating surface to be clean for the push-on/Sharkbite types. You have to deburr them as well. YouTube is your friend here.

Of course you can use a hacksaw and deburr it. If you don't have a deburr tool you can use sandpaper. I do have a pipe cutter and deburr tool though. A pipe cutter makes a cleaner cut with less movement of the pipe and is of course better.

Sharkbites use O-rings inside them...just say NO...the O-ring will eventually degrade. Compression and soldered copper won't.

[bluegill]

I had a plumber replace all water cut-offs in my house at one time with 1/4 turn ball valve. I'm glad I did this. It is a big problem if you have to repair a faucet but you cannot turn off the water. Plumber said he frequently just cuts off water at the street, rather under a cabinet, because old valves begin leaking when you turn off water. He said to use American made quality valves, not "made in China".

[firebirdparts]

I think this is a great idea. Those globe valves traditionally used valves are so awful. If I install one I always use a ball valve (quarter turn). We’ll know in 20 years if that was a good decision.

[galawdawg]

I see you responded to a poster who shared a link to the Plumb Pak valve handle noting that is what you have. But that link was just to the handle, not the valve.

Do you know what brand multi-turn shut-off valves you have? One of the most common brands is BrassCraft which makes a very high quality shut-off valve that is solid brass with chrome plating. While it may "appear cheap", they will generally last as long as the house in which they are installed. One can replace internal washers and stems very easily and at very little cost of the valve has any issues.

So check the brand, if you are able. If they are indeed BrassCraft (or another high quality valve), then I wouldn't replace them. Just "exercise" them every year or two by turning each one on and off. Then if there is an issue, replace the washers or even the stem if you are so inclined. Saves money, time and the risk that a valve replacement becomes a much more involved task than planned!

[IowaFarmBoy]

I think the need to do this depends on how your local water is. Where I lived previously and worked as a homebuilder/remodeler, I saw very few problems with this. The valves just seemed to keep working. Now, we are in another state and our local water has a lot of minerals in it that tend to build up inside the the cutoffs. I've had a gate valve welded in place by minerals so that turning the valve broke the connection between the turning shaft and the gate. I've also had the cutoff for hot water to our kitchen sink have so much buildup that our hot water supply was severely restricted. So, I've been changing to ball valves as I need to work on things. The problems seems to be more on the hot than cold side. I've theorized that a water softener would help with this but haven't gone down that path yet.

[Cheez-It Guy]

Can you get someone to video record your work and have that person promise NOT TO HELP NO MATTER WHAT? We need our potential source of entertainment if this will be similar to the video posted above by Cheez-It Guy.

Read the accompanying description of that video for important context. The videographer was not a tenant of that apartment unit. The only thing that really would have helped would have been to turn off the water, which apparently was impossible due to silly reasons. I wonder if maybe turning on full blast all non-leaking fixtures with a functioning drain would have cut the pressure enough to make a meaningful difference. I think that was a hot water line. Sometimes you have to let people deal with the fallout of their own poor decisions. I thank him for his service.

[dbr]

Hello, I'm looking to replace a bathroom faucet or two or four. I tested out turning off the water under the sink and it didn't turn it off completely.

It feels like I'm going to break it if I try to turn it more. The valves feel like plastic with a chrome finish on them.

Additionally, I need to fix or replace my dishwasher and noticed the knob half broken on that too.

I'm aware I can turn off the house water but maybe while it's off I should replace all the valves with something a bit more formidable. Maybe? If so what type of valve would be suitable?

Thank you

Yep, same thing happened to me right down to the almost plastic construction. Had everything replaced with ball valves. That includes the laundry valves and the feed to the boiler and the water heater.

One piece of advice the plumber suggested is to exercise all valves periodically.

[Cheez-It Guy]

I think that's good advice until it isn't. If a valve hasn't been moved in a long time, I prefer not to move it at all, as that often starts a leak that wasn't there previously. Ball valves would be much easier to exercise. I could do my whole house in a minute or two (I count 8 valves, single story).

[crefwatch]

One piece of advice the plumber suggested is to exercise all valves periodically.

We have very hard water, and no softener. So this is a very good recommendation. But it's hard to remember to do it, say every year.

I have experienced quarter-turn valves, made in the 1980s in someplace like Poland, eventually leaking around the stem. Bought them at now defunct Channel Lumber chain.

Plumber's clients have to say, "No, I don't want the cheapest. I want brass quarter-turn shutoffs and am willing to PAY for them."

[JackoC]

. The only tool I needed was a pipe cutter, though you could use a haxsaw.

You *cannot* just use a hacksaw. You need the mating surface to be clean for the push-on/Sharkbite types. You have to deburr them as well. YouTube is your friend here.

Of course you can use a hacksaw and deburr it. If you don't have a deburr tool you can use sandpaper. I do have a pipe cutter and deburr tool though. A pipe cutter makes a cleaner cut with less movement of the pipe and is of course better.

Sharkbites use O-rings inside them...just say NO...the O-ring will eventually degrade. Compression and soldered copper won't.

I've used Sharkbites on peripheral lines, laundry room addition bathroom and the front yard hose connection, which have (soldered, 1/4 turn ball) shutoff valves that are closed in winter, since heating not good either place, or when we're going to be away. On a regular fully indoor line I'd worry about the Sharkbite not lasting as long as I do. Although the ones in that bathroom are still leak free at 15+ yrs.

I'm not yet replacing supply valves in the 2nd floor bathroom which are not in great shape, on the Pandora's Box principal. They are the oblong handle stop valve type. They fully shut off the flow when closed, they just leak through the valve stem a bit when closed, not when open. For the remote possibility of any of many valves/fittings in the house exploding when we're not around, I'm considering one of those flow activated shut offs near the main supply to house. They supposedly can figure out when flow is going on too long. Seems more efficient than being sure every piece of plumbing in the house is tip top all the time. And even if you're a really good DIY plumber (I'm a mediocre one) or get a professional, mistakes can be made on new work. But for now we 'hope that doesn't happen' the small % of the time we're not in the house.

[Kenkat]

I see you responded to a poster who shared a link to the Plumb Pak valve handle noting that is what you have. But that link was just to the handle, not the valve.

Just to clarify, I have found if you replace the cheap plastic handle with a better quality metal handle, you can get sufficient torque on the valve to close it. The valve itself is still ok.