Umbrella Insurance help

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
Post Reply
Topic Author
csm
Posts: 619
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:52 am

Umbrella Insurance help

Post by csm »

We currently have a $2 million umbrella policy via Geico for which the premium is $480 per year.

In order to have that policy, we were required to purchase a Named Non-Owner auto policy because we currently do not own a traditional automobile. The NNO policy is now a shocking $618 every 6 months, which I find insane. The only thing we may need it for is if we rent a vehicle, which is rare. We have collision damage waiver via AmEx plus the AmEx premium rental insurance (we usually decline the insurance via the rental agency).

I believe it is prudent to have umbrella insurance, but am having difficulty finding an option for it without the NNO policy. My research has failed me so I'm hoping for some ideas from the community.

Our other insurance is with Progressive for two RV's, one of which is a Class B van which we use as a 'daily driver' as needed (we are retired, so drive very little). The Progressive RV insurance neither covers other vehicles (e.g. rental cars) nor does Progressive offer an umbrella policy in our situation.

We own a condo so have condo insurance with another company who also does not have an option to add umbrella insurance. We live in central Florida which is notoriously expensive and options are limited for our condo.

We've never had a claim on any of these policies. We have clean driving records for the past 25-30+ years, although only have had our US driver's licenses for about 5 years (after repatriating from abroad). 65 year old female and 56 year old male. Pristine driving records, no claims, etc.

Does anyone have any options for how to consolidate, where to search, who to ask for help? Both the NNO and Umbrella with Geico are due the end of this month, so if I'm to make a move, I should do it now.

Thanks in advance!
Fpdesignco
Posts: 302
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:30 pm

Re: Umbrella Insurance help

Post by Fpdesignco »

Suggestion;

Google a couple of insurance brokers and have them do multiple agency quotes on your behalf. There are likely a few in your geographic area that do exactly what you are requesting.

Their incentive is paid to them by your new insurer. Other option is to call the major insurance companies and have them run you quotes over the phone. The problem you will face is a lot of them are horrible for multi policy quotes online, expecially if you get into other types of insurance such as RV.

If your in MO or IL I have a few I can reccomend. I insurance shop yearly. I hold zero allegiance to any insurer.
bh1
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:49 pm

Re: Umbrella Insurance help

Post by bh1 »

Fpdesignco's suggestion seems like a good one, but if you get stuck, you could buy a small vehicle that doesn't even run (motorcycle?), chuck it into your storage (garage?), insure everything along with umbrella, and then suspend the insurance on the vehicle. You would likely want a broker for this game.
3 putter
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:42 pm

Re: Umbrella Insurance help

Post by 3 putter »

bh1 wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:37 am Fpdesignco's suggestion seems like a good one, but if you get stuck, you could buy a small vehicle that doesn't even run (motorcycle?), chuck it into your storage (garage?), insure everything along with umbrella, and then suspend the insurance on the vehicle. You would likely want a broker for this game.
Be careful here - Umbrella policies almost always require that the underlying policies are in force to provide coverage.
afan
Posts: 8193
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:01 pm

Re: Umbrella Insurance help

Post by afan »

You want the umbrella policy for liability protection. Credit card rental car insurance typically covers damage to the car but not liability exposure for you.
If you get an umbrella policy under condition of having underlying liability insurance, then drop that underlying policy, you will have nothing.

If there is an answer of how to get umbrella without underlying auto, I would love to know. Never heard of a solution.

For the OP, you may want to shop for the best non owned auto policy you can get, provided it includes the coverage needed for the umbrella policy. Always worth seeing what you can get from other companies. From reports here, people USUALLY do better by having all their coverage with one company. But shop.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
talzara
Posts: 4745
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:40 pm

Re: Umbrella Insurance help

Post by talzara »

csm wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:43 am We currently have a $2 million umbrella policy via Geico for which the premium is $480 per year.

In order to have that policy, we were required to purchase a Named Non-Owner auto policy because we currently do not own a traditional automobile. The NNO policy is now a shocking $618 every 6 months, which I find insane. The only thing we may need it for is if we rent a vehicle, which is rare. We have collision damage waiver via AmEx plus the AmEx premium rental insurance (we usually decline the insurance via the rental agency).
If you only drive when you rent, consider dropping the non-owner car insurance and the umbrella. 85% of the umbrella risk is excess auto liability, and the other 15% is excess homeowners liability. Drop-down coverage is rounding error. Therefore, you don't need an umbrella. You just need the auto and homeowners coverage limits to be close to what you'd get with an umbrella.

Most rental car companies will sell you $1 million of supplemental liability insurance, and a few will sell you $2 million. Some insurance companies also sell supplemental liability insurance for rental cars, although they usually bundle it with CDW.

Most homeowners insurers will write $1 million of homeowners liability, and a few of them will write $2 million. If you can't switch homeowners insurers because you live in Florida, there are also insurers that sell personal liability insurance separately.

If all of this adds up to less than $1,716 a year, then you'll have almost the same coverage at a lower price.
Topic Author
csm
Posts: 619
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:52 am

Re: Umbrella Insurance help

Post by csm »

Thanks all - this is sort of what I did / have continued to do from the beginning (i.e. shop around, try to consolidate, use an agent, etc.)

We’re in Florida which presents its own challenges, particularly for the condo insurance. We used an agent but were pretty limited with options for that, and they were not able to add umbrella with the company that had our condo insurance, nor as I recall, the RV insurance.

Hard to understand why Progressive won’t add umbrella insurance to the RV policy. I had one idea which was to significantly increase the liability on the RV policy from its existing $300k to $1 million (maximum offered) which would at least be better protection should something happen while we’re driving the RV. I could probably increase liability on the condo insurance as well, to cover anything that may happen in the home. But then we still are not covered for rental cars - although perhaps it is just cheaper to pay the daily fee for liability when we do rent, although we usually rent for 3-4 weeks at a time so it adds up.

I will try to contact a couple of different agents and ask for assistance. I have been very disappointed in Geico who gave us a high quote on the NNO to start because we had just gotten our US driving licenses, even though we had letters from our previous companies that we were both accident and claim free for 25+ years. Now that it’s been 5+ years of experience, I would have expected our rates to decrease somewhat (as they told us they would), but they’ve continued to increase. This latest increase is around 20% higher for six months than last year - just for a Named Non-Owner Policy!
Topic Author
csm
Posts: 619
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:52 am

Re: Umbrella Insurance help

Post by csm »

talzara wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:59 pm

If you only drive when you rent, consider dropping the non-owner car insurance and the umbrella. 85% of the umbrella risk is excess auto liability, and the other 15% is excess homeowners liability. Drop-down coverage is rounding error. Therefore, you don't need an umbrella. You just need the auto and homeowners coverage limits to be close to what you'd get with an umbrella.

Most rental car companies will sell you $1 million of supplemental liability insurance, and a few will sell you $2 million. Some insurance companies also sell supplemental liability insurance for rental cars, although they usually bundle it with CDW.

Most homeowners insurers will write $1 million of homeowners liability, and a few of them will write $2 million. If you can't switch homeowners insurers because you live in Florida, there are also insurers that sell personal liability insurance separately.

If all of this adds up to less than $1,716 a year, then you'll have almost the same coverage at a lower price.
Thank you - I posted my last post before I saw this, but it’s exactly the way I was thinking. I did an estimate on my Progressive (RV) policy with increasing the limits to $1 million (highest available), and it raised the rate ca. $500. I’ll look into increasing the condo insurance and perhaps just add the car rental company liability as needed.
Topic Author
csm
Posts: 619
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:52 am

Re: Umbrella Insurance help

Post by csm »

talzara wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:59 pm If you only drive when you rent, consider dropping the non-owner car insurance and the umbrella.
Just to clarify, we don’t only drive when we rent. We drive two RVs as well, but those policies specifically say they only cover us when driving each specific respective vehicle, i.e. would not cover a rental car. So I’d need to raise liability limits on the RV policy, but max is $1 million (which is a bit less than half of net worth).
Post Reply