PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
One more undervolting data point from another TechTuber:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JiYAwKIHRY
He reduced power draw on his 7950X by over 100W and got the the temps down to 55C.
The more I think about it, the more and more annoyed I am by AMD. There was no need to set the PPT that high just to chase clock speeds; these undervolted CPUs should have been the default power settings from the beginning. A lower power draw wouldn't have cut performance, and would have allowed cheaper motherboards at launch due to lower thermal requirements, and cheaper coolers & quieter computers. It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to expect customers - even enthusiasts - to go into BIOS and muck about with PBO to have a reasonable PC build. They significantly hurt the user experience purely for the sake of marketing.
I'm going to take a guess that in a few months, we're going to see some cheaper non-X SKUs which draw significantly less power and perform within 5%, but can be overclocked to the exact same performance level because they're the exact same chips with different branding.
I'm quite happy with my 5900X, but I hope things go better with Zen 5/Meteor Lake.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JiYAwKIHRY
He reduced power draw on his 7950X by over 100W and got the the temps down to 55C.
The more I think about it, the more and more annoyed I am by AMD. There was no need to set the PPT that high just to chase clock speeds; these undervolted CPUs should have been the default power settings from the beginning. A lower power draw wouldn't have cut performance, and would have allowed cheaper motherboards at launch due to lower thermal requirements, and cheaper coolers & quieter computers. It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to expect customers - even enthusiasts - to go into BIOS and muck about with PBO to have a reasonable PC build. They significantly hurt the user experience purely for the sake of marketing.
I'm going to take a guess that in a few months, we're going to see some cheaper non-X SKUs which draw significantly less power and perform within 5%, but can be overclocked to the exact same performance level because they're the exact same chips with different branding.
I'm quite happy with my 5900X, but I hope things go better with Zen 5/Meteor Lake.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Q: Is a 5600G still a good system buy today?
I'm considering to hunt down an ASRock DESKMINI X300W, they seem to run about $200ish. Add a 5600G (running $100 less than a 5700G, if it were closer I'd go up one), 16-32gb memory, NVME drive and a Noctua cooler. All-in expect I'd be at around $600-$700 unless some good deals come along or prices go haywire. Eventual dream would be to source one of these heatsink cases to put it in: https://www.cirrus7.com/en/produkte/cirrus7-incus/ but not sure how much I want to learn about German freight forwarders.
Use case: Business/personal productivity driving a 4k monitor (@ 60hz). Gaming likely limited to Xbox streaming versus local, nothing local or AAA. My most recent PC at the moment is an 8th gen Intel laptop (work-provided) and a cheap Celeron. The work PC goes into fan overload way too often so I'd like something with a bit more oomph and quiet.
Priorities for me are an all-arounder of budget, size, quiet and decent enough speed relative to what I use now. I have no issues investing in last gen unless it's really really silly to do it. Hoping for some advice.
I'm considering to hunt down an ASRock DESKMINI X300W, they seem to run about $200ish. Add a 5600G (running $100 less than a 5700G, if it were closer I'd go up one), 16-32gb memory, NVME drive and a Noctua cooler. All-in expect I'd be at around $600-$700 unless some good deals come along or prices go haywire. Eventual dream would be to source one of these heatsink cases to put it in: https://www.cirrus7.com/en/produkte/cirrus7-incus/ but not sure how much I want to learn about German freight forwarders.
Use case: Business/personal productivity driving a 4k monitor (@ 60hz). Gaming likely limited to Xbox streaming versus local, nothing local or AAA. My most recent PC at the moment is an 8th gen Intel laptop (work-provided) and a cheap Celeron. The work PC goes into fan overload way too often so I'd like something with a bit more oomph and quiet.
Priorities for me are an all-arounder of budget, size, quiet and decent enough speed relative to what I use now. I have no issues investing in last gen unless it's really really silly to do it. Hoping for some advice.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
5600G is a great CPU, being from the Zen 3 generation. Even though Zen 4 was just released, people are actually debating over whether to get them, or just get a Zen 3 since they are being heavily discounted.leland wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:52 pm Q: Is a 5600G still a good system buy today?
I'm considering to hunt down an ASRock DESKMINI X300W, they seem to run about $200ish. Add a 5600G (running $100 less than a 5700G, if it were closer I'd go up one), 16-32gb memory, NVME drive and a Noctua cooler. All-in expect I'd be at around $600-$700 unless some good deals come along or prices go haywire. Eventual dream would be to source one of these heatsink cases to put it in: https://www.cirrus7.com/en/produkte/cirrus7-incus/ but not sure how much I want to learn about German freight forwarders.
Use case: Business/personal productivity driving a 4k monitor (@ 60hz). Gaming likely limited to Xbox streaming versus local, nothing local or AAA. My most recent PC at the moment is an 8th gen Intel laptop (work-provided) and a cheap Celeron. The work PC goes into fan overload way too often so I'd like something with a bit more oomph and quiet.
Priorities for me are an all-arounder of budget, size, quiet and decent enough speed relative to what I use now. I have no issues investing in last gen unless it's really really silly to do it. Hoping for some advice.
The 5600G's integrated Radeon Vega 7 graphics is sufficient for all office apps and video, even at 4K, and this includes streaming games from another PC or Xbox. But for playing 3D games directly on it, it can only handle old or simple games at low res (e.g. 720p) and low detail settings.
Laptops tend to be loud because they only have small fans that have to spin at high rpm to move enough air. A 5600G is at the low end (65W TDP) for power and heat for a desktop CPU so in a normal case it's easy to cool, but in an ASRock Deskmini, you'll have to pay extra attention and should try to fit the best cooler possible like a Noctua. There are a few YouTube videos about the ASRock Deskmini X300:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3571I-q ... heTechTank
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSBAQ8d ... el=Robtech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTqjuLe ... el=Robtech
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Another alternative is an Intel NUC 12th gen. For the light loads you're talking about, these are really well constructed, upgradeable, small, and pretty inexpensive.tortoise84 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:39 am5600G is a great CPU, being from the Zen 3 generation. Even though Zen 4 was just released, people are actually debating over whether to get them, or just get a Zen 3 since they are being heavily discounted.leland wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:52 pm Q: Is a 5600G still a good system buy today?
I'm considering to hunt down an ASRock DESKMINI X300W, they seem to run about $200ish. Add a 5600G (running $100 less than a 5700G, if it were closer I'd go up one), 16-32gb memory, NVME drive and a Noctua cooler. All-in expect I'd be at around $600-$700 unless some good deals come along or prices go haywire. Eventual dream would be to source one of these heatsink cases to put it in: https://www.cirrus7.com/en/produkte/cirrus7-incus/ but not sure how much I want to learn about German freight forwarders.
Use case: Business/personal productivity driving a 4k monitor (@ 60hz). Gaming likely limited to Xbox streaming versus local, nothing local or AAA. My most recent PC at the moment is an 8th gen Intel laptop (work-provided) and a cheap Celeron. The work PC goes into fan overload way too often so I'd like something with a bit more oomph and quiet.
Priorities for me are an all-arounder of budget, size, quiet and decent enough speed relative to what I use now. I have no issues investing in last gen unless it's really really silly to do it. Hoping for some advice.
The 5600G's integrated Radeon Vega 7 graphics is sufficient for all office apps and video, even at 4K, and this includes streaming games from another PC or Xbox. But for playing 3D games directly on it, it can only handle old or simple games at low res (e.g. 720p) and low detail settings.
Laptops tend to be loud because they only have small fans that have to spin at high rpm to move enough air. A 5600G is at the low end (65W TDP) for power and heat for a desktop CPU so in a normal case it's easy to cool, but in an ASRock Deskmini, you'll have to pay extra attention and should try to fit the best cooler possible like a Noctua. There are a few YouTube videos about the ASRock Deskmini X300:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3571I-q ... heTechTank
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSBAQ8d ... el=Robtech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTqjuLe ... el=Robtech
ETA: The NUC doesn't come with memory/storage, so the total cost takes you above your price range. They're still pretty nifty machines, especially if you can recycle an old nvme drive or memory stick.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Cool, that was exactly my plan in terms of getting a Noctua cooler versus the stock fan + cooler. The possible noise is what concerns me most. I suppose if it's really bad I can seek out that passive case, or just sell it on (not that I'm actually great at selling off the old stuff). Just wasn't sure if still good to base on the 5600G, but glad to get the thumbs up. It's still a lot more powerful than anything I've used so should be lightning fast for me. Thanks for the video links - will check them out.tortoise84 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:39 am 5600G is a great CPU, being from the Zen 3 generation. Even though Zen 4 was just released, people are actually debating over whether to get them, or just get a Zen 3 since they are being heavily discounted.
The 5600G's integrated Radeon Vega 7 graphics is sufficient for all office apps and video, even at 4K, and this includes streaming games from another PC or Xbox. But for playing 3D games directly on it, it can only handle old or simple games at low res (e.g. 720p) and low detail settings.
Laptops tend to be loud because they only have small fans that have to spin at high rpm to move enough air. A 5600G is at the low end (65W TDP) for power and heat for a desktop CPU so in a normal case it's easy to cool, but in an ASRock Deskmini, you'll have to pay extra attention and should try to fit the best cooler possible like a Noctua. There are a few YouTube videos about the ASRock Deskmini X300:
Thanks - was looking more at AMD - seems like a few more options to get a quiet machine. In this case also can get a bit more bang for the buck with the 5600G, but it's probably a close call.Independent George wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:33 pm Another alternative is an Intel NUC 12th gen. For the light loads you're talking about, these are really well constructed, upgradeable, small, and pretty inexpensive.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
This is one I struggle with currently. I have had the webpage for an E-Ink + digitizer tablet open for a month and can't pull the trigger to buy it, even though taking notes on my iPad is giving me eye strain from the back light. It's a mix of not being able to bring myself to spend nearly $500 on an E-Ink tablet, even if it does have a digitizer layer and good pen support, and decision paralysis on exactly which brand would be best for my needs.Independent George wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:42 am I bought a moderately overpriced 6700XT back in March; it's honestly more power than I need for the kinds of games I play, but I like nice stuff, and am slowly coming to terms with the fact that I'm not poor anymore and can afford nice stuff.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
If anybody's been holding off on upgrading from HDD to SATA SSD, or SATA SSD to M.2, prices look like they're tumbling. This 2 TB Crucial P5 Gen 4 NVME drive is selling for $170 - well below the $220 I paid for the exact same Gen 3 drive last year.
ETA: For the record, I do not plan on upgrading because as near as I can tell, there is no practical difference between Gen 3 and Gen 4 when it comes to the random read/writes from daily use, and minimal, barely noticeable differences going from SATA to Gen 3 NVME. HDD still suck for anything other than bulk storage/backups, though, so I highly recommend upgrading that if you're still using a HDD.
ETA: For the record, I do not plan on upgrading because as near as I can tell, there is no practical difference between Gen 3 and Gen 4 when it comes to the random read/writes from daily use, and minimal, barely noticeable differences going from SATA to Gen 3 NVME. HDD still suck for anything other than bulk storage/backups, though, so I highly recommend upgrading that if you're still using a HDD.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
I seemed to have enough parts to create a PC, so I was thinking of getting a new MB, cpu and GPU and setup some sort of gaming things for the kids. I was thinking of just geting a i3-12100 and a AMD RX6600. I figure it should be able to play most games at a decent rate. I have to stay with DDR4 since that's what I have in spare parts.
Should I instead get the RX 6600 XT?
Should I instead get the RX 6600 XT?
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Based entirely on Newegg prices, I'm finding:gavinsiu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:03 pm I seemed to have enough parts to create a PC, so I was thinking of getting a new MB, cpu and GPU and setup some sort of gaming things for the kids. I was thinking of just geting a i3-12100 and a AMD RX6600. I figure it should be able to play most games at a decent rate. I have to stay with DDR4 since that's what I have in spare parts.
Should I instead get the RX 6600 XT?
Sapphire Pulse 6600 - $220 after rebate
XFX Speedster 6650XT- $290
According to the TechPowerUp charts, the 6650XT is roughly 22% better performance, at the cost of about 32% in price.
I'd probably go with the 6650XT, just because $70 seems like a low price for a decent performance uplift. But that $220 for the 6600 is also a steal.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
This Gigabyte 6650 XT is $265 after $35 off w/ promo code FTSBXAZ346:gavinsiu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:03 pm I seemed to have enough parts to create a PC, so I was thinking of getting a new MB, cpu and GPU and setup some sort of gaming things for the kids. I was thinking of just geting a i3-12100 and a AMD RX6600. I figure it should be able to play most games at a decent rate. I have to stay with DDR4 since that's what I have in spare parts.
Should I instead get the RX 6600 XT?
https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-gv-r665 ... 6814932521
[Edit]: And an AMD Ryzen 5 5600 (non-X) for $130 after $20 off w/ promo code FTSBXAZ45:
https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-5-5600 ... 6819113736
is much faster so probably a better deal than an i3-12100. Here's a decent ASRock B550 motherboard to go with the Ryzen 5 5600 for $110:
https://www.newegg.com/asrock-b550m-ste ... 6813157940
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Wow, that is a pretty amazing deal. This is definitely the way to go.tortoise84 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:19 pm This Gigabyte 6650 XT is $265 after $35 off w/ promo code FTSBXAZ346:
https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-gv-r665 ... 6814932521
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
I'll soon be getting a new Windows PC that has a discrete graphics card as opposed to an integrated GPU, or I guess in addition to the integrated GPU that comes with the i7 processor. This is the first system I've had with such a card, so I'm trying to understand how it gets used.
Do programs transparently recognize and use the graphics card or do they have to be instructed to do so?
Is the integrated GPU still used in any way?
Does the graphics card get connected to the monitor and it takes over display of all the usual, non-video functions that would normally be the function of the integrated GPU?
Do programs transparently recognize and use the graphics card or do they have to be instructed to do so?
Is the integrated GPU still used in any way?
Does the graphics card get connected to the monitor and it takes over display of all the usual, non-video functions that would normally be the function of the integrated GPU?
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Generally you can enable or disable the dedicated/integrated graphics manually if you choose.AAA wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 7:31 am I'll soon be getting a new Windows PC that has a discrete graphics card as opposed to an integrated GPU, or I guess in addition to the integrated GPU that comes with the i7 processor. This is the first system I've had with such a card, so I'm trying to understand how it gets used.
Do programs transparently recognize and use the graphics card or do they have to be instructed to do so?
Is the integrated GPU still used in any way?
Does the graphics card get connected to the monitor and it takes over display of all the usual, non-video functions that would normally be the function of the integrated GPU?
Some laptops have a power saving feature where they'll use the integrated for low-intensity tasks and the dedicated for when more horsepower is needed.
Desktops tend to use the dedicated for everything if it's available, unless you tell them not to.
Programs interact with an intermediate layer of software, like Direct3D, OpenGL, etc. This is an API (application programming interface) that knows how to speak the language of the graphics hardware. Due to this layer, the graphics card is mostly transparent to the program. In the early days of dedicated cards (mid 90s), it was necessary to write code for each graphics card more specifically.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Also, in case it's not obvious, the integrated GPU output goes through graphics port(s) on the motherboard, and a discrete GPU has its own set of ports. Presumably if you hook your monitor up to the motherboard graphics port, you get integrated graphics, and if you hook your monitor up to the GPU port you get the discrete GPU graphics, no?homebuyer6426 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 7:50 amGenerally you can enable or disable the dedicated/integrated graphics manually if you choose.AAA wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 7:31 am I'll soon be getting a new Windows PC that has a discrete graphics card as opposed to an integrated GPU, or I guess in addition to the integrated GPU that comes with the i7 processor. This is the first system I've had with such a card, so I'm trying to understand how it gets used.
Do programs transparently recognize and use the graphics card or do they have to be instructed to do so?
Is the integrated GPU still used in any way?
Does the graphics card get connected to the monitor and it takes over display of all the usual, non-video functions that would normally be the function of the integrated GPU?
Some laptops have a power saving feature where they'll use the integrated for low-intensity tasks and the dedicated for when more horsepower is needed.
Desktops tend to use the dedicated for everything if it's available, unless you tell them not to.
Programs interact with an intermediate layer of software, like Direct3D, OpenGL, etc. This is an API (application programming interface) that knows how to speak the language of the graphics hardware. Due to this layer, the graphics card is mostly transparent to the program. In the early days of dedicated cards (mid 90s), it was necessary to write code for each graphics card more specifically.
Using the newegg item listings mentioned earlier:
the motherboard ports: https://c1.neweggimages.com/ProductImag ... 40-V81.jpg
and the GPU card ports: https://c1.neweggimages.com/ProductImag ... 521-05.jpg
I don't know if a discrete GPU would send its output through the motherboard ports?
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Usually, the integrated graphics is automatically disabled in the BIOS whenever a discrete graphics card is installed. So it won't even show up in Windows, and if you plug a monitor into the motherboard's display outputs you'll get nothing. Instead, you have to use the outputs on the graphics card.AAA wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 7:31 am I'll soon be getting a new Windows PC that has a discrete graphics card as opposed to an integrated GPU, or I guess in addition to the integrated GPU that comes with the i7 processor. This is the first system I've had with such a card, so I'm trying to understand how it gets used.
Do programs transparently recognize and use the graphics card or do they have to be instructed to do so?
Is the integrated GPU still used in any way?
Does the graphics card get connected to the monitor and it takes over display of all the usual, non-video functions that would normally be the function of the integrated GPU?
It is actually possible to use both integrated and discrete graphics at the same time, by enabling it in the BIOS. The BIOS menu layout is different for each manufacturer, but on my MSI motherboard, it's called IGD Multi-Monitor. Possible uses of this feature are to gain more monitor outputs, or to use the Intel Quick Sync video encoder on the iGPU.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Can you use the Integrated graphics processor for encoding? I recall AMD RX6 series do not have a good encoder.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Sure you can. Enable the iGPU Multi-Monitor function in your BIOS and install the iGPU drivers. Then select Intel Quick Sync in your video encoding program.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
I have no experience with this, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say that the iGPU is going to be at nowhere near as fast as a dedicated GPU encoder. Radeon might be slower than Nvidia, but I have a hard time believing it's slower than Intel integrated graphics.tortoise84 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:31 pmSure you can. Enable the iGPU Multi-Monitor function in your BIOS and install the iGPU drivers. Then select Intel Quick Sync in your video encoding program.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Well the main purpose of using a GPU encoder is for real time encoding, such as streaming gameplay on Twitch, etc. So the 'encoding speed' is not really important as long as the encoder can keep up with the required framerate, e.g. 60 fps. Instead, you could compare quality at a given bitrate, which is usually quite low at 3.5-8 Mbps for streaming to match the upload speeds available these days, which makes encoder compression quality even more important. Intel Quick Sync actually has better quality than Nvidia NVENC and AMD, as shown in this YouTube video:Independent George wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 8:12 pm I have no experience with this, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say that the iGPU is going to be at nowhere near as fast as a dedicated GPU encoder. Radeon might be slower than Nvidia, but I have a hard time believing it's slower than Intel integrated graphics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctbTTRo ... el=EposVox
If you have an Nvidia or AMD GPU as well as an Intel iGPU, you may still choose to use the iGPU for encoding a stream to take some of the load off your discrete GPU so that it can deliver more fps in games.
Also, the new Intel ARC and GeForce 4000 series GPUs have AV1 encoding, which gives even more quality or lower bitrates than H.264 and H.265.
If you want to encode some other videos that don't need to be streamed in real time, then you should really use a software encoder with the CPU because they have higher quality or lower bitrates than all of the GPU encoders, although it will take much more time.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
My thought for using encoding was to use it for handbrake or similar software so I can rip cd / dvd to plex, but it's probable that handbrake might not support the hardware encoding.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Thanks, I was thinking of a i3 system because it was cheaper, but the price on the Ryzen has come down while the i3 has for some reason gone up. Any particular feature I need on the motherboard other than PCI 4.0?tortoise84 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:19 pm This Gigabyte 6650 XT is $265 after $35 off w/ promo code FTSBXAZ346:
https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-gv-r665 ... 6814932521
[Edit]: And an AMD Ryzen 5 5600 (non-X) for $130 after $20 off w/ promo code FTSBXAZ45:
https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-5-5600 ... 6819113736
is much faster so probably a better deal than an i3-12100. Here's a decent ASRock B550 motherboard to go with the Ryzen 5 5600 for $110:
https://www.newegg.com/asrock-b550m-ste ... 6813157940
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
HandBrake does support hardware encoding. Just enable it in Preferences > Video tab, then you can use one of the presets under the Hardware section (H.265 QSV is for Intel Quick Sync), or in the main window > Video tab, you can select the Video Encoder to be one of the NVEnc, AMD VCE or QSV, H.264 or H.265 options. Note that all filters like deinterlacing still use the CPU so you should turn them off if they're not needed.
Yes, Ryzens have become heavily discounted so if I were building a PC right now, I would go with a Ryzen.
PCIe 4.0 support also depends on the CPU. For AMD Ryzen, the 5600 and above support PCIe 4.0, but the 5600G, 5700G (G = integrated graphics), 5500, and several others only support PCIe 3.0. For Intel, 11th Gen on a 500 series motherboard or later supports PCIe 4.0. PCIe 4.0 support is important if you want to use the latest NVMe PCIe Gen 4 SSDs that transfer over 3,500 MB/s up to 7,000 MB/s, or if you're using a graphics card with cut down PCI Express lanes. For example, while most graphics cards use the full x16 lanes, the Radeon RX 6500 XT only has x4 lanes, and the 6600, 6600 XT and 6650 XT only have x8 lanes. So if you limit them to PCIe 3.0 speeds, x8 lanes may start to become a bottleneck, and x4 lanes usually does show a drop in performance in games. PCIe 4.0 has twice the speed of 3.0 so that's enough to relieve the bottleneck.
Other features you should look for on a motherboard include:
- WiFi if you need it.
- USB ports, including Type-C and the speed. USB 3.0 5 Gbps is common, but 3.1 Gen 2 10 Gbps and higher are available.
- M.2 slots for NVMe SSDs, and the PCIe gen speeds and lanes that they support.
- etc
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Ok you made me curious so I ran some HandBrake tests. I have both an Nvidia GeForce 3080 Ti with an AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, and an Intel Core i5-11400 with Intel UHD 730 Integrated Graphics.Independent George wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 8:12 pm I have no experience with this, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say that the iGPU is going to be at nowhere near as fast as a dedicated GPU encoder. Radeon might be slower than Nvidia, but I have a hard time believing it's slower than Intel integrated graphics.
The source video was gameplay recorded from MS Flight Sim 2020 at 2560x1440x60 fps in H.264 at 22 Mbps using GeForce Experience.
Settings:
H.265 NVEnc or QSV Hardware Preset but modified with no resizing and the audio track as AAC passthrough.
NVEnc at Constant Quality: 27
Intel QSV at Constant Quality: 27 QP
Results:
NVEnc Encoder Preset 'Medium' (default): 190 fps avg encoding speed, 17849 kbps resulting video bitrate
NVEnc Encoder Preset 'Fastest': 237 fps, 19725 kbps
NVEnc Encoder Preset 'Slowest': 70 fps, 17866 kbps
Intel QSV Encoder Preset 'Speed' (default): 260 fps, 15900 kbps
Intel QSV Encoder Preset 'Balanced' or 'Quality' (results were the same): 149 fps, 18944 kbps
Conclusions:
Intel Quick Sync on an iGPU in the default 'Speed' mode at 260 fps was actually faster than NVEnc on a 3080 Ti even in 'Fastest' mode at 237 fps.
On both encoders, changing the Constant Quality setting or even targeting an avg bitrate did not have any effect on encoding speed. Only changing the Encoder Preset mode affected the speed.
On Intel QSV, changing the Encoder Preset to 'Quality' actually increased the bitrate, even though Constant Quality was set the same at 27 QP, which is the opposite of what you normally expect. Usually, spending more time encoding should result in more compression and lower bitrates. NVEnc 'Slowest' also had a slightly higher bitrate than 'Medium', but 'Fastest' had a much higher bitrate as expected.
Subjective quality between all of the encodes was about the same.
So Intel Quick Sync is a pretty good encoder to use, especially since it's already included on most Intel CPUs.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Interesting, I wonder how good the AMD encoder is compare to Intel and Nivida. Due to prices, I will most likely end up with an AMD video card.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
I did some tests about a year ago, ripping and encoding blu-rays. My 5700XT was very fast at encoding, but even on the slowest/highest-quality settings, the resultant video quality wasn't all that great. So I wound up doing it via the CPU (5600X), which was an order of magnitude slower, but gave output files basically indistinguishable from the source.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Yeah I used to have an AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT too, but sold it last year during the crypto craze. It seems that in March 2022, AMD added B-frame support to the encoder, which brought quality up to nearly the same levels as NVEnc and Intel Quick Sync:
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-a ... lity-boost
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-a ... lity-boost
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
I very much would have done the same. However, my son was building a gaming PC, and with current-gen GPUs being unobtanium at the time, I gave him mine, and bought a GT1030 (the lowest-end discrete card that will play 4k video) for $100 to tide me over until he got his own.tortoise84 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:40 am Yeah I used to have an AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT too, but sold it last year during the crypto craze.
Thanks for the info about the B-frame support, will have to give it another try when I get my card back early next year.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
I'm building a new gaming system for my kids. I just bought a Ryzen 5600 CPU
https://slickdeals.net/f/16111135-amd-r ... center-b-m
I am planning to get a Radeon RX 6800 XT, which according to https://pc-builds.com/bottleneck-calculator, plays well with the 5600 CPU at 1440p resolution.
Given the above selections, which motherboard should I get? X570? B550? I'm looking for something less than $200. Thank you.
https://slickdeals.net/f/16111135-amd-r ... center-b-m
I am planning to get a Radeon RX 6800 XT, which according to https://pc-builds.com/bottleneck-calculator, plays well with the 5600 CPU at 1440p resolution.
Given the above selections, which motherboard should I get? X570? B550? I'm looking for something less than $200. Thank you.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Deviating slightly from the thread, but any recommendations for already built PC's for light gaming use? My 10 year old wants a "gaming pc" but I'm in over my head and I don't think his use case warrants spending more than $500 or so.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
You could get the parts
https://pcpartpicker.com/guide/rFLrxr/e ... ming-build
then get help from a friend putting them together if you don't feel comfortable doing yourself.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
X570 (with chipset fan) and X570S (no chipset fan) support more PCIe lanes so you get more expansion opportunities such as 1-2 more PCIe x1 slots, a 3rd M.2 slot, or more USB 3.1 Gen 2 10 Gbps ports. If you don't need these, you can save the roughly $50 and go with a B550, which will give you the same performance from the CPU.red light wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:49 am I'm building a new gaming system for my kids. I just bought a Ryzen 5600 CPU
https://slickdeals.net/f/16111135-amd-r ... center-b-m
I am planning to get a Radeon RX 6800 XT, which according to https://pc-builds.com/bottleneck-calculator, plays well with the 5600 CPU at 1440p resolution.
Given the above selections, which motherboard should I get? X570? B550? I'm looking for something less than $200. Thank you.
Some examples:
ASRock B550M Steel Legend $115: https://www.newegg.com/asrock-b550m-ste ... 6813157940
MSI B550M PRO-VDH WIFI $120: https://www.newegg.com/msi-b550m-pro-vd ... 6813144331
MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus $147: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07T5QDRFX
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
For $500, you'll probably have to get something with integrated graphics like an AMD Ryzen 5 5600G. This is only good enough for simple or old games at low resolutions like 1280x720, and you may have to turn down the detail settings to the lowest.
e.g. HP Pavilion Desktop $550: https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-pa ... -bundle-pc
If the power supply has a 6+2 pin PCIe connector, then you should be able install a discrete graphics card. Something like a used GeForce GTX 1660 Super for $150 will give you much better gaming performance. If you're going to go down this route, then you can also consider pre-builts with Intel CPUs such as an i3-12100, i5-11400 or i5-12400. But I don't recommend Intel if you're just going to use the integrated graphics because it's too slow for gaming.
Edit: HP Victus 15L Gaming Desktop i5-12400F 8GB DDR4 512 GB SSD GeForce RTX 2060: $640 after 20% off coupon code COUNTDOWN22
https://www.ebay.com/itm/185598034876
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
So I am thinking of building a system now with a AMD 5600 with a AMD RS6600, both have dropped in price. I was thinking of going with something like MSI B550-A pro or the MSI B550 Tomahawk. PC Part picker said that the system speced out need about 350 Watt. Do you have a suggestion for power supply? I was thinking one of the modular power supply 650w by Corsair. Do you have any suggestions?
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
I'm old-school in that I prefer the Seasonic line of power supply units (PSUs), but I'm sure others can chime in with feedback on Corsair PSUs. My preference for Seasonic comes from their long reputation for build quality, and I've never had a Seasonic PSU let out the "magic smoke" like I've occasionally experienced with the PSUs used in pre-built systems.gavinsiu wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:42 pm So I am thinking of building a system now with a AMD 5600 with a AMD RS6600, both have dropped in price. I was thinking of going with something like MSI B550-A pro or the MSI B550 Tomahawk. PC Part picker said that the system speced out need about 350 Watt. Do you have a suggestion for power supply? I was thinking one of the modular power supply 650w by Corsair. Do you have any suggestions?
Edit: I should note that, as far as I remember, none of the pre-built failures were Corsair. Also, Corsair doesn't build their PSUs directly like Seasonic does for most of their line, so you do need to dig a little deeper into the reputation of the manufacturer for each specific model under consideration.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Both of my builds use Seasonic power supplies. In any case (pun intended), definitely go modular. You'll get a clean layout without having to stash the unused cables somewhere.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
I would just go for whatever big name brand has a deal like this Cooler Master 650W 80+ Gold modular for $60:gavinsiu wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:42 pm So I am thinking of building a system now with a AMD 5600 with a AMD RS6600, both have dropped in price. I was thinking of going with something like MSI B550-A pro or the MSI B550 Tomahawk. PC Part picker said that the system speced out need about 350 Watt. Do you have a suggestion for power supply? I was thinking one of the modular power supply 650w by Corsair. Do you have any suggestions?
https://www.newegg.com/cooler-master-v6 ... 6817171164
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Thanks, I actually have several Seasonic products, too. What I have notice is that they seemed have a massive hike in price recently. The cheapest power supply is about $130+ for a 650W. I don't recall they were that expensive in the past.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
My Seasonic Prime PX-750 Platinum was $170 in 2019 and is $215 on Amazon currently. If we inflation-adjust $170 to 2022 dollars, that would be a tiny bit below $200, so there is a price jump, but it's partially due to inflation.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Also bear in mind that you want to avoid buyer's remorse. After the PC is built, you don't want to say "I should have gotten the Seasonic" - if that's what you really wanted in the first place.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Seasonic, EVGA, Corsair, and BeQuiet are all good, reputable brands. Don't cheap out on the PSU - this is the component most likely to take out the rest of your build in the process should it fail. That's a low probability overall, but well worth the $20 or so price difference between one of those brands and a generic PSU.gavinsiu wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:42 pm So I am thinking of building a system now with a AMD 5600 with a AMD RS6600, both have dropped in price. I was thinking of going with something like MSI B550-A pro or the MSI B550 Tomahawk. PC Part picker said that the system speced out need about 350 Watt. Do you have a suggestion for power supply? I was thinking one of the modular power supply 650w by Corsair. Do you have any suggestions?
^^^^^This, 1,000% this. I went over a decade without building a PC, and the discovery of modular PSUs and cases with cable management panels & tie-downs left me flabbergasted. It's such a simple idea that would have saved me so much time and effort in the 90s.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
I've noticed PSU prices rise and fall regularly based on supply chain issues in China. If you scroll back far enough in this thread, we noted a supply shortage and price spike sometime around summer 2020, then again after Covid hit. I picked up a 1000W Seasonic 80+ Gold in late 2021 for $130 after rebate. It's currently sitting unopened in my closet shelf waiting on a GPU upgrade that never materialized, but I have no regrets because that was a freaking steal. And eventually I will probably buy a used 3080 or better and it will be ready waiting for me.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Yes, I am aware of that, but this is not a main computer but one for the kids to play computer games on and may be have fun building. It is not mission critical. Also a lot of the parts are from former machines.
I do not want to get the cheapest where the PSU might catch fire, which I have experienced. What I want is something reliable but not necessary top tier.
I also prefer to not trust just the brand and say "I should buy <insert your brand>". Yes, you can more likely get a good psu if you buy from Seasonic than if you purchase from Ares, but manufacturers have a bad habit of resting on their laurels. Even good manufacturers could cut corners or have defect, so I rather that once I have a paticular model I try to see if there is a review on it to see there are any issues.
Some additional questions
1. What are Boghead's opition of the Cultist PSU ist at https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/?
2. For modular psu, my thought was that it would allow easy updates so if I were to need a new power supply, I could just swap out the old PSU and insert a new one, assuming the right size. However, it appears that there is no standardization on cables. The end plugging into the MB will be the same, but the other hand plugging into the PSU are not. Is this the case? Is there consistency across the same brand?
3. Is single rail and multi-rail be a concern? I see a note on the review that the PSU is multi-rail and therefore might have issue with high draw GPU. However, since I am using a low to mid gpu (amd rs6600), this should not be an issue?
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
The PSU comes with a self-test plug. Plug it in and make sure the fan spins up. You want to be sure that it's really waiting for you and not DOA.Independent George wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:38 am I've noticed PSU prices rise and fall regularly based on supply chain issues in China. If you scroll back far enough in this thread, we noted a supply shortage and price spike sometime around summer 2020, then again after Covid hit. I picked up a 1000W Seasonic 80+ Gold in late 2021 for $130 after rebate. It's currently sitting unopened in my closet shelf waiting on a GPU upgrade that never materialized, but I have no regrets because that was a freaking steal. And eventually I will probably buy a used 3080 or better and it will be ready waiting for me.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
It would make sense that PSU manufacturers standardize cabling within their own brands to minimize parts. There's no reason to standardize across manufactures, though. Consider it a price for being brand loyal.gavinsiu wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:53 am 2. For modular psu, my thought was that it would allow easy updates so if I were to need a new power supply, I could just swap out the old PSU and insert a new one, assuming the right size. However, it appears that there is no standardization on cables. The end plugging into the MB will be the same, but the other hand plugging into the PSU are not. Is this the case? Is there consistency across the same brand?
An Amazon search shows this is indeed the case: Amazon.com : modular power supply cables - They're grouped by manufacturer.
It's a matter of load balancing and isolating current surges to a particular PSU circuit. You wouldn't want a fan motor spike going to the motherboard supply, for example. However, it's not as important as it used to be.
I did a quick google search and found a decent tutorial: Single-Rail Vs. Multi-Rail PSU; Which Suits Your Needs? - Tech4Gamers It doesn't go into much detail, but it's enough to point you in the right direction. For a kid's gaming PC, a single rail will be fine.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Thanks, I suppose there is no incentive for a manufactor to standardize since they can charge extra for the cables.
Thanks for the link, will read it later. The PSU I am looking into right now is multirail, but it wasn't selected due t that feature.
Thanks for the link, will read it later. The PSU I am looking into right now is multirail, but it wasn't selected due t that feature.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
It is also likely the longest-lived component of your build. My current Ryzen 5600X machine is using one of the very first fully-modular power supplies--the Corsair AX750, which I paid $150 for and has powered multiple machines. I just found the shipping notice in my email. It arrived at my house twelve years ago today.Independent George wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:31 am Don't cheap out on the PSU - this is the component most likely to take out the rest of your build in the process should it fail. That's a low probability overall, but well worth the $20 or so price difference between one of those brands and a generic PSU.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
1. Yes, I've heard people refer to that list, which started on the Linus Tech Tips forum. It's legit.gavinsiu wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:53 am Some additional questions
1. What are Boghead's opition of the Cultist PSU ist at https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/?
2. For modular psu, my thought was that it would allow easy updates so if I were to need a new power supply, I could just swap out the old PSU and insert a new one, assuming the right size. However, it appears that there is no standardization on cables. The end plugging into the MB will be the same, but the other hand plugging into the PSU are not. Is this the case? Is there consistency across the same brand?
3. Is single rail and multi-rail be a concern? I see a note on the review that the PSU is multi-rail and therefore might have issue with high draw GPU. However, since I am using a low to mid gpu (amd rs6600), this should not be an issue?
2. Never switch modular cables between PSUs unless you are sure they are compatible. Even different models from the same manufacturer can use different cables. E.g. EVGA SuperNOVA G6 vs GS, or Corsair RM850 vs RM850x.
3. Single rail is fine.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
This is important to note, particularly for brands that work with multiple manufacturers to produce their PSUs. Don't assume you can use the cables from one model with a different model, even if it's the same brand. Always double/triple check the specs and compatibility guides directly with the original vendor (aka, don't trust Amazon listings to properly state compatibility). When I bought a short cable kit for a mini-ITX build, I was very careful to buy the proper cable kit for that particular PSU model.tortoise84 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:33 pm 2. Never switch modular cables between PSUs unless you are sure they are compatible. Even different models from the same manufacturer can use different cables. E.g. EVGA SuperNOVA G6 vs GS, or Corsair RM850 vs RM850x.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
Good point about compatibility in the same brand. It appears that a lot of manufacturer don't make their own PSU and contracted build or rebadged. Some manufacturer like Seasonic still makes their own psu though. I did see an youtube video where Gamer Nexus interview a rep at Corsair where he said Corsair is trying to standardize the cables within the own brand with labeling (cable type 4, etc).Mudpuppy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 3:13 pm This is important to note, particularly for brands that work with multiple manufacturers to produce their PSUs. Don't assume you can use the cables from one model with a different model, even if it's the same brand. Always double/triple check the specs and compatibility guides directly with the original vendor (aka, don't trust Amazon listings to properly state compatibility). When I bought a short cable kit for a mini-ITX build, I was very careful to buy the proper cable kit for that particular PSU model.
Has anyone heard of Enermax power supply? They seemed to be on the cultist psu tier list, but have very little reviews. I did see a few reddit post praising them. They apparently have coolers, too but their rep for cooler is not good.
What surprises me is that Seasonic is not very high on the cultist tier list, but I did notice that Seasonic was knocked off the list due to some issues.
Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!
I moved neurosphere's question into a new thread. See: What is the performance limit on my Surface Pro 8?