Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

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Yarlonkol12
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Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by Yarlonkol12 »

[See updates below --admin LadyGeek]

Hi Bogleheads,

I have a severance agreement from EMPLOYER A, the EMPLOYER A is continuing to pay me for 60 days which the severance agreement calls the "Continuation Period". At the end of the continuation period, EMPLOYER A pays a lump sum severance and I will be terminated from EMPLOYER A.

If I start a job with EMPLOYER B prior to the original termination date from EMPLOYER A, I am suppose to let EMPLOYER A know and they will stop my salary continuation payments which is fine. I will still receive the lump sum severance, I have confirmed this with an employment attorney who reviewed my agreement.

My question is, during background checks in the future that ask for "Reason for leaving employer", do I put resigned as I did resign prior to the layoff termination date? Or do I need to put laid off?

Sorry for the weird question but I'm really curious about this, thank you for reading :sharebeer
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CRC_Volunteer
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by CRC_Volunteer »

You were part of a RIF. You were already in the process of separating when a new employment opportunity arrived. Keep it simple.
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by Beachey »

I am not sure if layoff or resign is going to matter, especially because there will be no gap in employment. On many online applications, you should be able to explain the situation in a sentence or two. I typically don't see where that question is a drop-down box.

My real question is why you have to tell Employer A and can't double dip for the overlap. Did the lawyer tell you what legal jeopardy you would be in if you didn't?
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by KlangFool »

OP,

You did not resign. You were laid off. They are not the same.

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riverant
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by riverant »

Sorry for the partially related question, but why is this any of the new employers business?
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by DarkHelmetII »

In my experience, "reason for leaving" is free form not drop down. And certainly you have artistic license if asked in an interview. IMHO say "new opportunity" and nothing more. If literally faced with a binary option of RIF vs. Resign I concede that is a grey area. But again I'd argue unlikely.

If employer C asks point blank were you RIF'd at employer A I'd say yes (lying usually dies not end well) but other than that don't go out of your way to advertise you were RIFd.
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by Shackleton »

I always put “career advancement” in the “reason for leaving” if asked.
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by Normchad »

Shackleton wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:57 pm I always put “career advancement” in the “reason for leaving” if asked.
I like it! Have to admit, when I interview people and hear that they got RIFed, it’s hard to think “companies don’t RIF their good employees…..”

So if it happened to me,I’d never admit it in an interview. Ever.
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by Dottie57 »

Shackleton wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:57 pm I always put “career advancement” in the “reason for leaving” if asked.
Great answer.
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Termination date on same day as start date?

Post by Yarlonkol12 »

[Thread merged into here, see update below --admin LadyGeek]

Hey Bogleheads,

I've been laid off and on salary continuation, I found a new job and told OLD EMPLOYER, OLD EMPLOYER HR said they would set my last day to be the same date as the first day at NEW EMPLOYER (both on Monday). While I'm not actually doing work at OLD EMPLOYER, my last day on their Payroll would be that date.

Does this create some kind of conflict of interest situation? I actually am on garden leave with OLD EMPLOYER, I don't have any network or systems access, I handed over all my stuff and lost access to OLD EMPLOYER over 1 month ago, I'm just on their payroll basically.

Should I tell OLD EMPLOYER I want my termination date to be the Friday before? I guess I would miss out on 1 day of salary continuation but I would prefer to not have this create some kind of issue for me in the future. Is there a potential issue? Curious to know what you all would do?

Thank you for reading
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homebuyer6426
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Re: Termination date on same day as start date?

Post by homebuyer6426 »

Did you sign something with the old employer that you can only work 1 job? Are these remote work jobs?
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Yarlonkol12
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Re: Termination date on same day as start date?

Post by Yarlonkol12 »

homebuyer6426 wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:56 am Did you sign something with the old employer that you can only work 1 job? Are these remote work jobs?
Both jobs are at will and can be terminated at anytime.

Yes both are remote, I am not working for OLD employer anymore, I am just being paid due to a RIF WARN salary continuation period. Both OLD employer and NEW employer have conflict of interest policies, I am just trying to avoid being in violation of new employers conflict of interest policy. Or I guess, having an old result come back in future background checks with the same day start/end
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Re: Termination date on same day as start date?

Post by evancox10 »

Are you in the US? Not sure if relevant laws in other countries, so my answer is US specific.

In general it is not illegal to have two jobs at once. Oftentimes employers may ask salaried employees to request permission from them before taking on a second job. I strongly doubt those provisions are meant to apply to your specific situation. No one at the new company is going to care, plus how would they even know unless you tell them? If old employer wants to pay you an extra day, and you have been honest with them about the start date at new employer, then take the extra day’s pay.

Regarding potential conflict of interest, this situation would not personally make me feel conflicted. Old employer has no expectations of you, so there is no potential conflict between meeting expectations of old vs new.
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Re: Termination date on same day as start date?

Post by StevieG72 »

I stress about a lot of weird things, but I would not stress about that.

You gave old employer the correct info, they decided when to end your pay.
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Re: Termination date on same day as start date?

Post by student »

You told your old employer so I think you can be guilt free. I wonder whether this has anything to do with health insurance. When you leave, you old employer's insurance could end on the same day or at the end of the month. Since you start on Monday, this could be an issue.
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Yarlonkol12
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Re: Termination date on same day as start date?

Post by Yarlonkol12 »

evancox10 wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:01 am Are you in the US? Not sure if relevant laws in other countries, so my answer is US specific.

In general it is not illegal to have two jobs at once. Oftentimes employers may ask salaried employees to request permission from them before taking on a second job. I strongly doubt those provisions are meant to apply to your specific situation. No one at the new company is going to care, plus how would they even know unless you tell them? If old employer wants to pay you an extra day, and you have been honest with them about the start date at new employer, then take the extra day’s pay.

Regarding potential conflict of interest, this situation would not personally make me feel conflicted. Old employer has no expectations of you, so there is no potential conflict between meeting expectations of old vs new.
Yes this is US, both employers are AT WILL with no contractual obligations preventing this.

Thank you this makes sense to me, transitions like this are a bit of a stressful time for me so I tend to overthink these situations, appreciate the voice of reason
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Re: Termination date on same day as start date?

Post by BrooklynInvest »

Not something I'd worry about at all.

Standard questions with health insurance. Without volunteering any additional information to either I'd confirm that with prior employer your insurance runs through end of the month that you were terminated in. With new, when does it start? It may kick in at beginning of the next month. Remember COBRA is kinda retroactive.

And well done getting a new gig so quickly!
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Re: Termination date on same day as start date?

Post by Yarlonkol12 »

BrooklynInvest wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:15 am Not something I'd worry about at all.

Standard questions with health insurance. Without volunteering any additional information to either I'd confirm that with prior employer your insurance runs through end of the month that you were terminated in. With new, when does it start? It may kick in at beginning of the next month. Remember COBRA is kinda retroactive.

And well done getting a new gig so quickly!
Thank you, I am thankful to have found a good opportunity. Good point on health insurance, old employer health insurance stops on my last day and new job health insurance starts on first day. From what I understood, I have to go through enrollment to pick which insurance I want but it's retroactive and will apply to dates of service from my first day of employment with new employer
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Re: Termination date on same day as start date?

Post by tunafish »

student wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:08 am You told your old employer so I think you can be guilt free. I wonder whether this has anything to do with health insurance. When you leave, you old employer's insurance could end on the same day or at the end of the month. Since you start on Monday, this could be an issue.
I know of someone who died with no employer-supplied life insurance on the weekend between jobs.

It seems to me you could avoid this issue by setting a time when the employments begin and end and make sure the new company doesn't have a problem with it. It sounds like the old company is trying to be nice.
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Re: Termination date on same day as start date?

Post by Weathering »

My spouse was in that situation, but in their case, the severance (8 weeks' pay) was only paid out at the end of the 60-day WARN period (during the WARN period, they were on regular salary). If someone found a new job before the end of the 60-day WARN period, they did not get the severance (because the company said they were not actually laid off until the end of the 60 WARN period). My spouse was able to start the new job immediately following the 60-day WARN period.

You may want to see if your situation has additional severance being paid at the end of the 60-day WARN period.
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Re: Termination date on same day as start date?

Post by 8foot7 »

If someone found a new job before the end of the 60-day WARN period, they did not get the severance
If I am forced to find a new job because my current employer lays me off, I feel no compunction to alert the current employer that I have begun new employment elsewhere. (Having policies like this frankly invites this sort of behavior.) I suppose if you are supposed to be continuing to show up at an office every day during this 60-day period, then that's a somewhat different animal, but in many cases you are walked out the door and just told to hang out at home for the 60-day period. In that case I feel no obligation to report my new employment to my old employer that has ended my employment involuntarily.
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Re: Termination date on same day as start date?

Post by Yarlonkol12 »

Weathering wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:18 am My spouse was in that situation, but in their case, the severance (8 weeks' pay) was only paid out at the end of the 60-day WARN period (during the WARN period, they were on regular salary). If someone found a new job before the end of the 60-day WARN period, they did not get the severance (because the company said they were not actually laid off until the end of the 60 WARN period). My spouse was able to start the new job immediately following the 60-day WARN period.

You may want to see if your situation has additional severance being paid at the end of the 60-day WARN period.
Thank you, that is good to bring up. I did read about that being a requirement in some severance agreements.

I do receive a lump sum severance after the WARN period, however my agreement does not require that the employee remain with the employer for the entire WARN period to receive the lump sum severance.
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Yarlonkol12
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Re: Termination date on same day as start date?

Post by Yarlonkol12 »

8foot7 wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:42 am
If someone found a new job before the end of the 60-day WARN period, they did not get the severance
If I am forced to find a new job because my current employer lays me off, I feel no compunction to alert the current employer that I have begun new employment elsewhere. (Having policies like this frankly invites this sort of behavior.) I suppose if you are supposed to be continuing to show up at an office every day during this 60-day period, then that's a somewhat different animal, but in many cases you are walked out the door and just told to hang out at home for the 60-day period. In that case I feel no obligation to report my new employment to my old employer that has ended my employment involuntarily.
Agree with you, in my case I am bound by my employee agreement to tell them of new employment. However, in my situation my agreement doesn't require me to serve the entire salary continuation period to receive the severance payout, although I know this is a requirement that is in some agreements
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Re: Termination date on same day as start date?

Post by mr_brightside »

can't imagine any HR drone really cares one iota

do what's easiest. you are essentially 'off their radar' and your new employment is none of their concern.

best of luck in your new position --

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Would you ask to push out a start date 1 week after signing job offer?

Post by Yarlonkol12 »

[Thread merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

Hi Bogleheads,

I have a dilemma I'd love your input on. Not looking for legal advice, more so, I am looking for opinions on if I should bring this up with my new employer and ask for a later start date.

I was laid off due to RIF, I accepted a new job at an outside employer. I selected a start date 1 week prior the end of my salary continuation period because the severance agreement doesn't contain anything about external employment or that serving the entire continuation period with the employer is required. HR in writing has stated that employees are not required to remain employed through the scheduled termination date to be eligible for severance benefits. I've asked that same question to the HR email address and received the same response multiple times. Verbally HR have told me the same thing when I had called.

I had a chance to review my situation with an employment attorney who I have worked with previously. He didn't find anything in my severance agreement that supported what HR told me, but he also didn't find anything that was in conflict either because the severance agreement doesn't mention external employment or early resignation during the continuation period. He said sure, it's possible I could be paid out the severance after resigning early as HR has informed me, but his opinion was that it would be a risk to terminate before the scheduled termination date that was communicated in the severance agreement.

So I have a decision to make based on his analysis.

A.) I stick with my agreed upon start date and risk losing the severance payout.

B.) I call my recruiter at the new employer and ask if my start date can be pushed out until the following week, explaining that I became aware of this severance risk issue.

My concern here is that, while starting 1 week later doesn't seem like it would be a big deal. I do worry about requesting after already providing a start date and agreeing to it. While I would assume it's not likely they would rescind an offer over this request, I do worry about how this request would be perceived.

The amount of money at risk with the severance is equal to about 4 weeks of pay at the new job. Not a huge amount, but not a trivial amount either.

Your opinions? Not looking for legal advice, I've already gotten that from my attorney. Just trying to decide what to do now based on that information.

I am unemployed and really happy about finding this new job.

Thank you for reading
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Re: Would you ask to push out a start date 1 week after signing job offer?

Post by exodusNH »

Yarlonkol12 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:32 am Hi Bogleheads,

I have a dilemma I'd love your input on. Not looking for legal advice, more so, I am looking for opinions on if I should bring this up with my new employer and ask for a later start date.

I was laid off due to RIF, I accepted a new job at an outside employer. I selected a start date 1 week prior the end of my salary continuation period because the severance agreement doesn't contain anything about external employment or that serving the entire continuation period with the employer is required. HR in writing has stated that employees are not required to remain employed through the scheduled termination date to be eligible for severance benefits. I've asked that same question to the HR email address and received the same response multiple times. Verbally HR have told me the same thing when I had called.

I had a chance to review my situation with an employment attorney who I have worked with previously. He didn't find anything in my severance agreement that supported what HR told me, but he also didn't find anything that was in conflict either because the severance agreement doesn't mention external employment or early resignation during the continuation period. He said sure, it's possible I could be paid out the severance after resigning early as HR has informed me, but his opinion was that it would be a risk to terminate before the scheduled termination date that was communicated in the severance agreement.

So I have a decision to make based on his analysis.

A.) I stick with my agreed upon start date and risk losing the severance payout.

B.) I call my recruiter at the new employer and ask if my start date can be pushed out until the following week, explaining that I became aware of this severance risk issue.

My concern here is that, while starting 1 week later doesn't seem like it would be a big deal. I do worry about requesting after already providing a start date and agreeing to it. While I would assume it's not likely they would rescind an offer over this request, I do worry about how this request would be perceived.

The amount of money at risk with the severance is equal to about 4 weeks of pay at the new job. Not a huge amount, but not a trivial amount either.

Your opinions? Not looking for legal advice, I've already gotten that from my attorney. Just trying to decide what to do now based on that information

Thank you for reading
I would simply ask if you can start a week later.

You could also offer to attend the first day to get through the onboarding process, then return the following week. This would work only if you have time off available at your current employer or have flexible hours.
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Re: Would you ask to push out a start date 1 week after signing job offer?

Post by Yarlonkol12 »

exodusNH wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:36 am I would simply ask if you can start a week later.

You could also offer to attend the first day to get through the onboarding process, then return the following week. This would work only if you have time off available at your current employer or have flexible hours.
I don't have any responsibilities at the old job, they revoked all access and the severance agreement said we are free to focus on looking for a new job. The severance agreement says there is no requirement to be available for work.
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Re: Would you ask to push out a start date 1 week after signing job offer?

Post by JoeRetire »

Yarlonkol12 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:32 am My concern here is that, while starting 1 week later doesn't seem like it would be a big deal. I do worry about requesting after already providing a start date and agreeing to it. While I would assume it's not likely they would rescind an offer over this request, I do worry about how this request would be perceived.

The amount of money at risk with the severance is equal to about 4 weeks of pay at the new job. Not a huge amount, but not a trivial amount either.

Your opinions? Not looking for legal advice, I've already gotten that from my attorney. Just trying to decide what to do now based on that information.

I am unemployed and really happy about finding this new job.
This is a bit confusing.

You are currently unemployed. But you would risk 4 weeks worth of severance by starting a new job 1 week earlier than the end of your severance period? And you thus are contemplating staying unemployed 1 additional week?

IMHO, it's highly unlikely that your new employer would rescind an offer if you ask about delaying 1 week.
Ask. If you sense any hesitancy, then just back off.

You might want to avoid saying "I want to stay unemployed for an additional week". Instead, keep the reasons vague.
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Re: Would you ask to push out a start date 1 week after signing job offer?

Post by aristotelian »

It couldn't (okay, shouldn't) hurt to ask. Just be clear you understand you are asking for a courtesy and would understand if they say no. Do not try to negotiate in any way unless you are willing to risk losing the new job.

Out of the box, but I wonder if you could offer to start the new job as agreed on a gratis basis for the first week.
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Re: Would you ask to push out a start date 1 week after signing job offer?

Post by Yarlonkol12 »

JoeRetire wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:42 am
Yarlonkol12 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:32 am My concern here is that, while starting 1 week later doesn't seem like it would be a big deal. I do worry about requesting after already providing a start date and agreeing to it. While I would assume it's not likely they would rescind an offer over this request, I do worry about how this request would be perceived.

The amount of money at risk with the severance is equal to about 4 weeks of pay at the new job. Not a huge amount, but not a trivial amount either.

Your opinions? Not looking for legal advice, I've already gotten that from my attorney. Just trying to decide what to do now based on that information.

I am unemployed and really happy about finding this new job.
This is a bit confusing.

You are currently unemployed. But you would risk 4 weeks worth of severance by starting a new job 1 week earlier than the end of your severance period? And you thus are contemplating staying unemployed 1 additional week?

IMHO, it's highly unlikely that your new employer would rescind an offer if you ask about delaying 1 week.
Ask. If you sense any hesitancy, then just back off.

You might want to avoid saying "I want to stay unemployed for an additional week". Instead, keep the reasons vague.
There is a 60 day salary continuation period where we remain on the payroll of old employer. I am going to be leaving old employer 1 week before that ends.

The severance is paid out in a lump sum at a later date after
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by LadyGeek »

Yarlonkol12 - In order to provide appropriate advice, it's best to keep all the information in one spot. I merged your updates back into the original thread. If you have any questions, ask them here.

(Thanks to the member who reported the post and provided a link to this thread.)
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Re: Would you ask to push out a start date 1 week after signing job offer?

Post by JoeRetire »

Yarlonkol12 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:47 am
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:42 am
Yarlonkol12 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:32 am My concern here is that, while starting 1 week later doesn't seem like it would be a big deal. I do worry about requesting after already providing a start date and agreeing to it. While I would assume it's not likely they would rescind an offer over this request, I do worry about how this request would be perceived.

The amount of money at risk with the severance is equal to about 4 weeks of pay at the new job. Not a huge amount, but not a trivial amount either.

Your opinions? Not looking for legal advice, I've already gotten that from my attorney. Just trying to decide what to do now based on that information.

I am unemployed and really happy about finding this new job.
This is a bit confusing.

You are currently unemployed. But you would risk 4 weeks worth of severance by starting a new job 1 week earlier than the end of your severance period? And you thus are contemplating staying unemployed 1 additional week?

IMHO, it's highly unlikely that your new employer would rescind an offer if you ask about delaying 1 week.
Ask. If you sense any hesitancy, then just back off.

You might want to avoid saying "I want to stay unemployed for an additional week". Instead, keep the reasons vague.
There is a 60 day salary continuation period where we remain on the payroll of old employer. I am going to be leaving old employer 1 week before that ends.

The severance is paid out in a lump sum at a later date after
I see. So you really aren't unemployed until the end of the salary continuation period.

How far in the future is that end?
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8foot7
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by 8foot7 »

If I understand this correctly you are overthinking this. You are essentially at home in garden leave collecting severance pay. Go start the new job whenever. It doesn’t matter.

I would not ask to push your start date by a week after you have already agreed to the start date. The time to negotiate that has passed.
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Re: Would you ask to push out a start date 1 week after signing job offer?

Post by LongRoad »

Yarlonkol12 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:41 am
exodusNH wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:36 am I would simply ask if you can start a week later.

You could also offer to attend the first day to get through the onboarding process, then return the following week. This would work only if you have time off available at your current employer or have flexible hours.
I don't have any responsibilities at the old job, they revoked all access and the severance agreement said we are free to focus on looking for a new job. The severance agreement says there is no requirement to be available for work.
Sorry if I am misunderstanding, but your employer has irrevocably laid you off, revoked your security access, and told you through HR that you are free to seek employment during the salary continuation period, correct?

Why would you find it necessary to 'resign' a position where you could not continue to perform work for your employer even if you wanted to? They've already laid you off.

Obviously a different company, but mine has a 30-day notice for RIFs and I've never heard of severance being pulled back because someone worked elsewhere during that period after being fully discharged.

At most, I'd ask the NEW employer whether they'd have a problem with your starting during the last week of your salary continuation period.

Congratulations on the new job!
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Re: Would you ask to push out a start date 1 week after signing job offer?

Post by exodusNH »

Yarlonkol12 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:41 am
exodusNH wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:36 am I would simply ask if you can start a week later.

You could also offer to attend the first day to get through the onboarding process, then return the following week. This would work only if you have time off available at your current employer or have flexible hours.
I don't have any responsibilities at the old job, they revoked all access and the severance agreement said we are free to focus on looking for a new job. The severance agreement says there is no requirement to be available for work.
I'm confused. What is your employment status? What type of work is your old job? Was the layoff due to a location closure?

If you're just sitting home, eating Cheetos, I'd just start the new job and say nothing.

If you are physically going to your old employer every day, sitting around, eating Cheetos, then it's a bit more complicated.
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by LadyGeek »

8foot7 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:52 am If I understand this correctly you are overthinking this. You are essentially at home in garden leave collecting severance pay. Go start the new job whenever. It doesn’t matter.

I would not ask to push your start date by a week after you have already agreed to the start date. The time to negotiate that has passed.
I agree. You don't know the new company's culture. If a new person suddenly decided they wanted to start a week later, I would not look on this favorably. The reason for the delay makes no difference - only that it's a last minute unexpected change.

The new employer has to expend resources preparing for a new employee and changing the date will cause them to make unplanned changes to their on-boarding plan. You'll be getting off on the wrong foot from the start.

Use the time to understand what it's like to live without having to work. When I first retired, I was nervous and unsure what would happen. Two+ years later, there's no going back.
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Re: Would you ask to push out a start date 1 week after signing job offer?

Post by humblecoder »

Yarlonkol12 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:32 am I selected a start date 1 week prior the end of my salary continuation period....
If you selected the start date with your new employer, I would imagine that they would be indifferent between you starting on your original date or one week later. So if it were me, I'd have no concerns about asking for a change.

Now if the situation were reversed and your new employer had been the one to set the start date, then I'd probably not want to rock the boat. But that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by galawdawg »

Unless you are still reporting to your current employer's workplace during this severance payout period, what restricts you from reporting for your new job on whatever start date was part of your commitment to your new employer?

Early impressions are important and a new hire who immediately asks to postpone their start date would send up red flags for me. I might believe you are continuing to negotiate terms with your current employer or a different prospective employer. If I had a second excellent candidate in the pipeline, I might be consider moving on to someone else to fill the position.
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by mr_brightside »

plus receiving 'dual pay' is a sweet position to be in

back in 2007 i had been laid off w/ severance but got a new position pretty quickly. the extra wages paid for a nice Precor Elliptical and a family Disney trip when my new vacation accrual kicked in

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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by jebco »

It sounds like your old job has revoked your access, doesn't expect anything from you, and you can't do work even if they did expect things from you. I genuinely don't understand why you even care about this.

In your situation, I'd just stay "employed" at the old job that has no expectations or anything like that until the period ends I I get my severance. There are people who have multiple FTE jobs at the same time and work them all with no issues, and I can definitely understand being uncomfortable with that... but I would also take that as a sign that it's no big deal to have your fake "employement" at your old job alongside your real employment at your new job. Maybe just not update your linkedin or whatever with the new job until the old job's clock has run out, if you're really worried about getting "caught" (what are they gonna do, fire you? haha).

Enjoy the double paychecks for a while, it's a nice thing.
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by Yarlonkol12 »

galawdawg wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:12 am Unless you are still reporting to your current employer's workplace during this severance payout period, what restricts you from reporting for your new job on whatever start date was part of your commitment to your new employer?

Early impressions are important and a new hire who immediately asks to postpone their start date would send up red flags for me. I might believe you are continuing to negotiate terms with your current employer or a different prospective employer. If I had a second excellent candidate in the pipeline, I might be consider moving on to someone else to fill the position.
Old employer put all laid off people on garden leave and revoked access to everything, the severance agreement even says there is no requirement to perform any work and we are able to focus full time on finding a new job.

No restrictions on starting with new employer on the date I agreed to, my old employer has updated my termination date already. Per my employee agreement I was required to disclose the new employer for up to 1 year after termination, and I need to be in compliance with employee agreement to receive severance according to severance agreement.

Going off of what was stated in the official HR support email, HR has clearly stated that I would remain eligible to receive my severance benefits and there there is no requirement to remain employed by through the scheduled term date. The advice I got from my attorney was that he thought relying on that would be risky because the severance agreement itself doesn't not mention this, and he thought leaving early could be interpreted as resigning early and thus being at risk of forfeiting the severance pay out. (The salary continuation is simply a 60 day period of remaining on payroll, that ends before I start the new job, the severance pay out is a lump sum that occurs sometime after I am terminated)

In hindsight, sure, I wish I could have told my new employer I'll start a week later, but what's done is done at this point. Now based on the current situation I have to make a decision.

After speaking with some other people to get their opinions, I am heavily leaning in favor of what you and some others have said about sticking with my initial commitment date. The way I view it is I still have a chance to receive my severance payout but there is a chance I won't receive it. If I don't, I can attempt to appeal with the written HR email I have, if that fails oh well...an expensive lesson learned, unfortunately. The advice I received was that they wouldn't risk asking to change the start date after signing and agreeing to that date, the damage to reputation was worth more in their opinion
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by Eagle33 »

Are you allowed to have in person interviews while seeking employment during the 60-day continuation period? Does old employer allow you not be physically at old employer's facility to attend interviews, physicals and the like to gain employment? If so, IMHO the risk is minimal they will go through the trouble to cancel your lump sum payment.
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by galawdawg »

Yarlonkol12 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:46 am Going off of what was stated in the official HR support email, HR has clearly stated that I would remain eligible to receive my severance benefits and there there is no requirement to remain employed by through the scheduled term date. The advice I got from my attorney was that he thought relying on that would be risky because the severance agreement itself doesn't not mention this, and he thought leaving early could be interpreted as resigning early and thus being at risk of forfeiting the severance pay out. (The salary continuation is simply a 60 day period of remaining on payroll, that ends before I start the new job, the severance pay out is a lump sum that occurs sometime after I am terminated)

In hindsight, sure, I wish I could have told my new employer I'll start a week later, but what's done is done at this point. Now based on the current situation I have to make a decision.

After speaking with some other people to get their opinions, I am heavily leaning in favor of what you and some others have said about sticking with my initial commitment date. The way I view it is I still have a chance to receive my severance payout but there is a chance I won't receive it. If I don't, I can attempt to appeal with the written HR email I have, if that fails oh well...an expensive lesson learned, unfortunately. The advice I received was that they wouldn't risk asking to change the start date after signing and agreeing to that date, the damage to reputation was worth more in their opinion
I wouldn't worry about it. If you have a written communication from HR stating that you would remain eligible to receive severance benefits with no requirement to remain employed by through the scheduled term date, you would also have a viable civil action if your former employer was to act contrary to that and terminate your severance payout because you found new employment (which they expressly encouraged you and others laid off to seek) and started a week prior to the final date where you would be eligible to receive your salary. They have benefited from this by saving a week of your otherwise due salary, win-win for everyone.

Good luck in your new position!
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by jarjarM »

Yarlonkol12 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:46 am Old employer put all laid off people on garden leave and revoked access to everything, the severance agreement even says there is no requirement to perform any work and we are able to focus full time on finding a new job.

No restrictions on starting with new employer on the date I agreed to, my old employer has updated my termination date already. Per my employee agreement I was required to disclose the new employer for up to 1 year after termination, and I need to be in compliance with employee agreement to receive severance according to severance agreement.

Going off of what was stated in the official HR support email, HR has clearly stated that I would remain eligible to receive my severance benefits and there there is no requirement to remain employed by through the scheduled term date. The advice I got from my attorney was that he thought relying on that would be risky because the severance agreement itself doesn't not mention this, and he thought leaving early could be interpreted as resigning early and thus being at risk of forfeiting the severance pay out. (The salary continuation is simply a 60 day period of remaining on payroll, that ends before I start the new job, the severance pay out is a lump sum that occurs sometime after I am terminated)

In hindsight, sure, I wish I could have told my new employer I'll start a week later, but what's done is done at this point. Now based on the current situation I have to make a decision.

After speaking with some other people to get their opinions, I am heavily leaning in favor of what you and some others have said about sticking with my initial commitment date. The way I view it is I still have a chance to receive my severance payout but there is a chance I won't receive it. If I don't, I can attempt to appeal with the written HR email I have, if that fails oh well...an expensive lesson learned, unfortunately. The advice I received was that they wouldn't risk asking to change the start date after signing and agreeing to that date, the damage to reputation was worth more in their opinion
I was in your situation about 12 years ago. Was in the 15 out of 60 days garden leaves before severance payout and got a offer from a different industry. So I just started the new job ASAP and there's no issue with the severance payout since there's no language in the termination/severance contract against starting new employment. Severance pay with zero issue. I got to double dip a bit :wink: Good luck on your new job :beer
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by Weathering »

Always say, "better opportunity."
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by hoofaman »

Standard disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but I think you might be making something out of nothing. If your agreement doesn't require you to stay on, and HR has told you it's ok, what are you so worried about? I can see being more paranoid if big severance payout was at stake, but over a few weeks of pay? I'd stick with the start date you agreed to, I wouldn't push it out

Look at it this way, most of the time companies are offering severance so that you leave on a good note and don't create problems for them. Asking an ex-employee jump through a ton of hoops in order to collect severance and then stiffing them at the end on a supposed technicality that isn't even called out in the severance agreement seems like it would be an even more costly administrative headache for the business than just paying out what was promised. A good lawyer is always going to inform you of potential risks, that's what they do
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by Yarlonkol12 »

jarjarM wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:58 pm
Yarlonkol12 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:46 am Old employer put all laid off people on garden leave and revoked access to everything, the severance agreement even says there is no requirement to perform any work and we are able to focus full time on finding a new job.

No restrictions on starting with new employer on the date I agreed to, my old employer has updated my termination date already. Per my employee agreement I was required to disclose the new employer for up to 1 year after termination, and I need to be in compliance with employee agreement to receive severance according to severance agreement.

Going off of what was stated in the official HR support email, HR has clearly stated that I would remain eligible to receive my severance benefits and there there is no requirement to remain employed by through the scheduled term date. The advice I got from my attorney was that he thought relying on that would be risky because the severance agreement itself doesn't not mention this, and he thought leaving early could be interpreted as resigning early and thus being at risk of forfeiting the severance pay out. (The salary continuation is simply a 60 day period of remaining on payroll, that ends before I start the new job, the severance pay out is a lump sum that occurs sometime after I am terminated)

In hindsight, sure, I wish I could have told my new employer I'll start a week later, but what's done is done at this point. Now based on the current situation I have to make a decision.

After speaking with some other people to get their opinions, I am heavily leaning in favor of what you and some others have said about sticking with my initial commitment date. The way I view it is I still have a chance to receive my severance payout but there is a chance I won't receive it. If I don't, I can attempt to appeal with the written HR email I have, if that fails oh well...an expensive lesson learned, unfortunately. The advice I received was that they wouldn't risk asking to change the start date after signing and agreeing to that date, the damage to reputation was worth more in their opinion
I was in your situation about 12 years ago. Was in the 15 out of 60 days garden leaves before severance payout and got a offer from a different industry. So I just started the new job ASAP and there's no issue with the severance payout since there's no language in the termination/severance contract against starting new employment. Severance pay with zero issue. I got to double dip a bit :wink: Good luck on your new job :beer
Thank you for sharing that, I'm remaining optimistic on the severance! And looking forward to the new gig :sharebeer
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Re: Layoff - resign prior to end of continuation period to accept new external job

Post by Leemiller »

Why are you even telling your former employer about your new job? I think you are really overthinking this.

I’m on severance right now which lasts 6 months and isn’t tied to me getting a new job. I’m starting a new job so I’m getting double paid for a couple of those months.
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