[Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

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srt7
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by srt7 »

Hebell wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:31 pm [Moved into a new thread from: Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN..Any advice? --admin LadyGeek]

Can we revive this for a retired couple that makes friends easily but doesn't know anybody in Minnesota or Wisconsin? We love cold weather.
Very active cyclists, would certainly join a recumbent trike club. Have our own canoe, which we would probably keep at a local boat club. Would join local meetup groups for board games, or dinner gatherings. Want close proximity to good restaurants, libraries, parks, community centers, experimental theater, and wherever people hang out. Don't care about sports clubs, job hunting or brew pubs. Love swimming, would love to be near an aquatics center. Snowmobiling or dog sledding outings, we love them both. We need to make the best of our sixties but know that we also need to reduce our fall risks and have access to good healthcare.

Minneapolis / St Paul or Madison?
Whoa! Just saw your details. You are moving from Florida to retire in MN/WI ???

Sir, you may have missed your exit. Please make a U-turn at the next one :D
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Hebell
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by Hebell »

I've spent 7 years in this hellish temperature. It has not gotten any easier to endure. The traffic is also abysmal. I am also not a beach person. We are both familiar with far Northern climates. But we will make sure we are absolutely ready to relinquish this tax haven, before we pull the trigger. Fortunately my husband finished up the last 7 years of his career here, so we've always already squeezed out the maximum financial benefit.
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by srt7 »

Hebell wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:04 pm I've spent 7 years in this hellish temperature. It has not gotten any easier to endure. The traffic is also abysmal. I am also not a beach person. We are both familiar with far Northern climates. But we will make sure we are absolutely ready to relinquish this tax haven, before we pull the trigger. Fortunately my husband finished up the last 7 years of his career here, so we've always already squeezed out the maximum financial benefit.
Good for you! I'm a cold climate person as well and can't enjoy the beach for more than a couple days.

Any reason you are not considering New England (Vermont, Maine etc.)?
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dbr
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by dbr »

Regarding climate, this projection may be relevant: https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate- ... e-main-t-4
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by alex_686 »

Glockenspiel wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:49 am There are some incredibly nice areas in southern, western, and even northeastern Minneapolis (proper). I live in a close suburb and would consider approximately 60-75% of the city's area to be a desirable place to live.

With regards to the friendliness, we just moved to a new neighborhood in December and I consider several of our new neighbors to be our closest friends. When you have things in common with other people, it's easy to make friends. Don't move to places where you have nothing in common with anyone.
I would strongly second this.

When you mentioned biking and theater I thought about specific neighborhoods in Minneapolis that would fit the bill. The suburbs would not fit this criteria well. Heck, St. Paul fits the bill less well. But the neighborhoods are urban neighborhoods with all that goes with it, both good or bad.

If you do decide to move to mpls we can chat about specific neighborhoods.
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Cycle
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by Cycle »

I live in Loring Park in Minneapolis. I've lived in a variety of neighborhoods within Minneapolis over the last 15 years. Most cities have atrocious snow removal on sidewalks and are a fall risk. In my neighborhood it's all done professionally by the building management or city so it is not an issue. There are also skyways, if that is your thing. When I lived in South Minneapolis, the sidewalks were so so horrible in winter, especially when pushing a stroller.

Many, many people in my neighborhood are retirees living in condos (1200 Nicollet Mall, 1225 LaSalle, Loring Green, Loring way or townhomes (Greenway Gables) or renting (110 Grant, Eitel, LPM)

We have free canoeing on Wednesdays in loring lake, or you can keep a canoe at Cedar Lake East Beach which is a ten minute bike ride 100% in protected bike lanes or off street trails (cedar lake trail). Also you can get a membership to Wheel Fun and then use their canoes or paddle boards at any of their locations for free

There is an open water swim course once a week at cedar lake, and two other lakes. Or for winter there is lap swimming at the YWCA which for us is just a two block stroll down the pedestrian only Loring Greenway.

There is xc skiing and mountain biking at wirth park which is 3 miles away.

Everything is within walking distance. Grocery, hospital, clinic, dentist, target, pharmacy, entertainment, restaurants etc. If you aren't staying active, it's your own fault here.

My 1 and 3 year old walk to school here, not many Americans have that privilege due to car culture

A lot of my neighbors have lived in the neighborhood for 30+ years, it's hard to consider living elsewhere when loring park is just so pleasant. I'm heading for a 20 minute walk around the lake now on my lunch break.
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by Cycle »

Firemenot wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:25 pm
vitaflo wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:23 pm
Longruninvestor wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:53 pm As a lifelong Minnesotan I must advise that making friends in this state will be extremely difficult no matter how polished your social skills. Every transplant I know has struggled and the trend seems to be they develop social networks mostly with other transplants.
This is a real concern. I've spent half my life in WI and the other half in MN. MN social circles are very insular and it's a super tough nut to crack as an outsider. WI is, well the exact opposite. Walk into a bar in WI and it's hard not to leave with new friends. Do the same in MN and good luck striking up much of a convo with anyone. Probably has something to do with the cultural heritage of the two states (Scandinavian vs German).

Don't get me wrong, I love MN but it's something to be aware of before you move. It's not that the people there aren't friendly, it's just that they don't like to be bothered by other people they don't already know. Wisconsinites in comparison tend to revel in idle chit chat.
My experience exactly too. And with bars too.
If the OP were going to move to a downtown neighborhood though, it would be very different since nearly everyone that lives in the downtown neighborhoods is transplant or a retiree. The retirees having chosen to move to a condo in order to be social and not deal with property maintenance.

I've lived in Minneapolis for 15 years, and can confirm this exclusion does exist, but in a big city there are tons of transplants.
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Hebell
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by Hebell »

Cycle wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:57 pm I live in Loring Park in Minneapolis. I've lived in a variety of neighborhoods within Minneapolis over the last 15 years. Most cities have atrocious snow removal on sidewalks and are a fall risk. In my neighborhood it's all done professionally by the building management or city so it is not an issue. There are also skyways, if that is your thing. When I lived in South Minneapolis, the sidewalks were so so horrible in winter, especially when pushing a stroller.

Many, many people in my neighborhood are retirees living in condos (1200 Nicollet Mall, 1225 LaSalle, Loring Green, Loring way or townhomes (Greenway Gables) or renting (110 Grant, Eitel, LPM)

We have free canoeing on Wednesdays in loring lake, or you can keep a canoe at Cedar Lake East Beach which is a ten minute bike ride 100% in protected bike lanes or off street trails (cedar lake trail). Also you can get a membership to Wheel Fun and then use their canoes or paddle boards at any of their locations for free

There is an open water swim course once a week at cedar lake, and two other lakes. Or for winter there is lap swimming at the YWCA which for us is just a two block stroll down the pedestrian only Loring Greenway.

There is xc skiing and mountain biking at wirth park which is 3 miles away.

Everything is within walking distance. Grocery, hospital, clinic, dentist, target, pharmacy, entertainment, restaurants etc. If you aren't staying active, it's your own fault here.

My 1 and 3 year old walk to school here, not many Americans have that privilege due to car culture

A lot of my neighbors have lived in the neighborhood for 30+ years, it's hard to consider living elsewhere when loring park is just so pleasant. I'm heading for a 20 minute walk around the lake now on my lunch break.
Thank you for this detailed response of a neighborhood that certainly looks like it fits the bill! I really appreciate the time you took to put in actual addresses of residential housing.
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by Steve723 »

lostdog wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:22 am In Wisconsin, you'll have closer access to the Great Lakes. Door County is beautiful and it will easily beat out Minnesota in every aspect.

Northern Wisconsin is way better than anything Minnesota has to offer in terms of woods and lakes. Minocqua, Eagle River chain, Door County, The Great Lakes, etc...

Northern Wisconsin Lakes are cleaner than Minnesota lakes. Better fishing all around.

Wisconsin beats out Minnesota in every area, especially when it comes to the people, land and the Great Lakes. You're better off avoiding Minnesota.
Mmmm, sounds like a Packer homer take to me!

The north shore of Lake Superior on the Minnesota side from Duluth up to Grand Portage is breathtakingly beautiful. Grand Marais is an awesome little town at the halfway point. Not to mention the Boundary Waters Canoe Area and Gunflint Trail! Just a beautiful part of the entire country, never mind just Minnesota or Wisconsin.
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by SconnieBro »

Steve723 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:36 pm
lostdog wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:22 am In Wisconsin, you'll have closer access to the Great Lakes. Door County is beautiful and it will easily beat out Minnesota in every aspect.

Northern Wisconsin is way better than anything Minnesota has to offer in terms of woods and lakes. Minocqua, Eagle River chain, Door County, The Great Lakes, etc...

Northern Wisconsin Lakes are cleaner than Minnesota lakes. Better fishing all around.

Wisconsin beats out Minnesota in every area, especially when it comes to the people, land and the Great Lakes. You're better off avoiding Minnesota.
Mmmm, sounds like a Packer homer take to me!

The north shore of Lake Superior on the Minnesota side from Duluth up to Grand Portage is breathtakingly beautiful. Grand Marais is an awesome little town at the halfway point. Not to mention the Boundary Waters Canoe Area and Gunflint Trail! Just a beautiful part of the entire country, never mind just Minnesota or Wisconsin.
I think there are more than a few homer takes in this thread (like the last one). I’m a WI guy but have spent many weeks all over both states for work and pleasure. Both states are beautiful and I think if we’re all being honest there is much overlap between the two. Perhaps a more fair comparison would be Twin Cities area vs Milwaukee area or perhaps Madison area vs the Rochester area. All of the above have their pros and cons and I think it really comes down to what OP values the most and what cons they can live with.
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by four7s »

As a former resident of Mpls. I can just say that the current conditions are light years away from what the city was at one time. And it hasn’t been for the better. The local media does not report the dark side of the social upheavals. Madison OTOH is smaller and as others have said friendlier than Mn.
As Garrison Keiler said of his fellow Minnesotans, “My people are not paradise people.” My experience with both states tells me that the ‘cheeseheads’
are more fun than their neighbors in Minneapolis.
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by Steve723 »

SconnieBro wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:53 pm
Steve723 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:36 pm
lostdog wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:22 am In Wisconsin, you'll have closer access to the Great Lakes. Door County is beautiful and it will easily beat out Minnesota in every aspect.

Northern Wisconsin is way better than anything Minnesota has to offer in terms of woods and lakes. Minocqua, Eagle River chain, Door County, The Great Lakes, etc...

Northern Wisconsin Lakes are cleaner than Minnesota lakes. Better fishing all around.

Wisconsin beats out Minnesota in every area, especially when it comes to the people, land and the Great Lakes. You're better off avoiding Minnesota.
Mmmm, sounds like a Packer homer take to me!

The north shore of Lake Superior on the Minnesota side from Duluth up to Grand Portage is breathtakingly beautiful. Grand Marais is an awesome little town at the halfway point. Not to mention the Boundary Waters Canoe Area and Gunflint Trail! Just a beautiful part of the entire country, never mind just Minnesota or Wisconsin.
I think there are more than a few homer takes in this thread (like the last one). I’m a WI guy but have spent many weeks all over both states for work and pleasure. Both states are beautiful and I think if we’re all being honest there is much overlap between the two. Perhaps a more fair comparison would be Twin Cities area vs Milwaukee area or perhaps Madison area vs the Rochester area. All of the above have their pros and cons and I think it really comes down to what OP values the most and what cons they can live with.
I agree!

(Go Vikings! LOL!)

((I grew up in Minnesota, but went to college in LaCrosse, now live out east. The Winona/LaCrosse area....another beautiful part of the country!))
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by yohac »

I'm retired near Madison but only because DW can't imagine leaving her friends. The winters are long, cold, dark and depressing. Florida in August I'm sure is awful too, but there's a reason for so many Midwestern snowbirds.
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by JAZZISCOOL »

Glockenspiel wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:49 am
dbr wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:34 am I still wonder if there is some confusion here between moving to the City of Minneapolis or to the Twin Cities area. I am not sure I would live in Minneapolis but the Twin Cities certainly offer much that is not that city. It would be like confusing the New York/NJ metropolitan area with Manhattan.

I also think it likely the concern over "friendliness" may contain some grains of truth but is being portrayed too harshly.
There are some incredibly nice areas in southern, western, and even northeastern Minneapolis (proper). I live in a close suburb and would consider approximately 60-75% of the city's area to be a desirable place to live.

With regards to the friendliness, we just moved to a new neighborhood in December and I consider several of our new neighbors to be our closest friends. When you have things in common with other people, it's easy to make friends. Don't move to places where you have nothing in common with anyone.
I had an aunt who lived in Forest Lake, MN (~30 miles NE of Minneapolis). I thought it was very pretty and met nice people when I went there to visit. There was a horse-harness racing track not too far that was interesting. I had never seen that before.
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by Steve723 »

yohac wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:05 pm I'm retired near Madison but only because DW can't imagine leaving her friends. The winters are long, cold, dark and depressing. Florida in August I'm sure is awful too, but there's a reason for so many Midwestern snowbirds.
Yeah, I have a sister and bother-in-law that are lifelong Minnesotans (live right outside of Mpls). These are people that grew up there and embraced the weather. But my sister, who is in her late 50s, is starting to break! I don't see them moving away because they have such deep roots there, but I definitely see them decamping to Florida or Arizona during those early spring cold spells when enough is enough at that point!

(I live out east now in southeastern PA....what a massive difference. We get all four seasons here, but the falls and springs are long and the winters not nearly as harsh!)
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by cbs2002 »

Hebell wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:04 pm I've spent 7 years in this hellish temperature. It has not gotten any easier to endure. The traffic is also abysmal. I am also not a beach person. We are both familiar with far Northern climates. But we will make sure we are absolutely ready to relinquish this tax haven, before we pull the trigger. Fortunately my husband finished up the last 7 years of his career here, so we've always already squeezed out the maximum financial benefit.
It's been great reading this thread for this reason. My spouse and I talk about this all the time. We despise intense heat and humidity, but actually love the beach. Northern retirement with 2-3 months in FL might fit the bill. Since we likely can't afford to live near the beach in San Diego...as of today my ideal retirement would be a condo in Manhattan while renting a month or two at a time at a northern beach in the summer and a southern beach in the winter. One can dream.
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by InvisibleAerobar »

bstevlin wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:50 am Our neighbors moved from Madison after they retired. They said for environmental reasons Madison is not keen to put salt on the streets and sidewalks. Is this true, I would not be surprised.
Madison encourages residents not to over-salt sidewalks, and most of my neighbors were certainly reluctant to apply salt. The city also provides free sand as a way to increase traction. I, the transplant, was more concerned about slips and falls and applied a mixture of salt and sand to sidewalks along the property I rented.

Residential streets get plowed and receive application of sand; one often don't see asphalt on those streets for weeks in the winter. Main roads are certainly salted though.
yohac wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:05 pm I'm retired near Madison but only because DW can't imagine leaving her friends. The winters are long, cold, dark and depressing. Florida in August I'm sure is awful too, but there's a reason for so many Midwestern snowbirds.
The first year we moved to Madison, it was cloudy for 4-5 consecutive days in November; then it was cloudy for two straight weeks in late January. I was told by longtime residents that two weeks was above average, but one should be prepared not to see the sun for a week straight.

Then again, for the next two years, nothing nearly that bad (maybe three consecutive days at most).
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by Random Poster »

Cycle wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:57 pm
Many, many people in my neighborhood are retirees living in condos (1200 Nicollet Mall, 1225 LaSalle, Loring Green, Loring way or townhomes (Greenway Gables) or renting (110 Grant, Eitel, LPM)
I really appreciate it when a poster provides specific information like this.

That said, a quick look at Zillow makes it clear that, despite how lovely this area sounds, there is no way that I could afford the HOA fees in these buildings.
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by Cycle »

Random Poster wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:49 pm
Cycle wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:57 pm
Many, many people in my neighborhood are retirees living in condos (1200 Nicollet Mall, 1225 LaSalle, Loring Green, Loring way or townhomes (Greenway Gables) or renting (110 Grant, Eitel, LPM)
I really appreciate it when a poster provides specific information like this.

That said, a quick look at Zillow makes it clear that, despite how lovely this area sounds, there is no way that I could afford the HOA fees in these buildings.
Lot of those hoas will include heat, internet/cable, and some insurance, plus onsite maintenance and door person.

There is a housing budget, whether that is spent renting with no HOA or owning with HOA is a simple calculation one can do. For us owning with a $700 HOA was still about $300 less than renting when we first moved to the neighborhood. $2br condo was $170k. There are no single family homes in this neighborhood, which is why it is so walkable, so it's either rent or have a condo/townhouse with big HOA.
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by SnowBog »

I've spent lots of time on both.

I love the Madison area, probably one of my favorite Midwest cities to visit. But I'm not sure I'd want to live there long term... It's much smaller, and offers much less as a result. It's also harder to get in and out. If you plan on traveling, you'd likely be forced to fly to Minneapolis or Chicago for connecting flights elsewhere.

Personally, I'm not a fan of "big cities" and wouldn't go out of my way to visit downturn Minneapolis or St. Paul on their own. But they offer a ton of entertainment, theaters, events, restaurants, etc. That said, I'd happily live in many of the numerous suburbs around the Twin Cities area. Many of them have their own feel, so you have tons of variety and flexibility. I haven't been to them all, but some seem like hidden gems, each offering something unique. Those within the 494 (West and South boundaries) and 694 (North and East boundaries) will have the closest proximity. But even those outside the boundary can be within 20-30 minutes (in good traffic) of most everything the area has to offer. With well established public transportation, including light rail in and areas, giving ease of access to lots of the region.

Never confirmed it personally, but have been told by people who live in MN they have some of the highest per capita bike trials, parks, and golf courses in the nation (the golf course was qualified to be outside of FL, the others weren't qualified, but they didn't claim to be the top, just near the top.) I'm sure the 10,000 lake contributed...

MN is also usually recognized for great medical care. Most people are familiar with Mayo Clinic, with their main facility a short drive south in Rochester, MN (smaller city, maybe similar in size to Madison). They have several other clinics and regional hospitals as part of their broader system. Not sure if it's because of proximity to Mayo, a result of the school systems, or other - but there's actually many more medical options in the MN area - especially around the Twin Cities area.

And MSP is the former home of Northwest Airlines, and still a major hub of Delta and other airlines. I think it's been rare I could not get a direct flight in/out of MSP from most other destinations (with exception of small airports not near MN who funnel people to larger hubs anyway) .

For "overall" beauty, nature, etc. - in my experience - they are fairly closely matched - at least the parts I've been too. Large areas of both MN and WI look a lot alike.

My one exception to that would be the North Shore area along Lake Superior from Duluth up to the Canadian border. I love the rugged cliffs against the shore, with the vastness of Lake Superior (further up the shore you'll lose sight of the WI side, and could easily think you are looking at an ocean). By contrast, I find the WI side of Lake Superior a let down. To me, it lacks the rugged beauty, and has far less to offer (although Bayfield and Madeline Island deserve a notable mention).

Personally, I dream of retiring along that North Shore area. There's few places in the US that come close to it for me. Maybe areas north of San Francisco would do, but the cost of living is vastly different (last I was there homes on the coast were far more than I'd ever want to spend on a home even if we had the money to burn).

One final point, depending on your finances, if you can afford the two households - you could consider joining the "snowbird" ranks. MN goes through all 4 seasons, and not everyone enjoys the winter, especially as they get older. Some who can afford to do so, will have a residence (or rent, RV, etc.) in another state for the winter.

For example, knew someone who lived the majority of their adult life in MN, the cold bothered them more every year coinciding with their arthritis getting worse, so they moved to FL for the winter. Over the years they extended the time they spent in FL, eventually making it their "primary" residence (and potentially avoiding state taxes). They can stay in FL until it starts to get too hot then MN (or WI) until it starts to get cold.
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by MrNarwhal »

I have lived in both. The Twin Cities area is much larger, and there is basically a Madison contained in the Twin Cities - but it is more dispersed. I would spend some time in Madison. If you really love the vibe, move there. If you find it a bit too much, there are various areas within the cities which offer similar lifestyle albeit somewhat watered down by other big city characteristics.

I'll put in a plug for the Como Park neighborhood of St. Paul. It is a quiet residential area (possibly too quiet for you?) but has easy access to the amenities of both cities, and the park itself is a gem.
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by JackoC »

Steve723 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:36 pm
lostdog wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:22 am In Wisconsin, you'll have closer access to the Great Lakes. Door County is beautiful and it will easily beat out Minnesota in every aspect.

Northern Wisconsin is way better than anything Minnesota has to offer in terms of woods and lakes. Minocqua, Eagle River chain, Door County, The Great Lakes, etc...

Northern Wisconsin Lakes are cleaner than Minnesota lakes. Better fishing all around.

Wisconsin beats out Minnesota in every area, especially when it comes to the people, land and the Great Lakes. You're better off avoiding Minnesota.
Mmmm, sounds like a Packer homer take to me!

The north shore of Lake Superior on the Minnesota side from Duluth up to Grand Portage is breathtakingly beautiful. Grand Marais is an awesome little town at the halfway point. Not to mention the Boundary Waters Canoe Area and Gunflint Trail! Just a beautiful part of the entire country, never mind just Minnesota or Wisconsin.
I agree very beautiful area but that's the kind of place where not being from MN would be a real issue IMO, to live there full time I mean. Not only socially in isolated areas like that (Grand Marais a town of ca. 1k people with no other real towns in many miles in any direction), but just being able to stand the winters, even if you think 'I like cold weather'. That's another level of long, cold winter vs. Minneapolis winter. Although it's not unusual for Minneapolis to get outright hot in the summer but is unusual on the north shore. People we know live there, great for them, but they're from MN. To me it's a beautiful place I'd highly recommend visiting but would never consider actually living, like numerous other beautiful places in the US.

I'd reiterate based on experience of grown kids who lived in both MN and WI (we're basically from NY area) as well as other people we know who live there and a number of visits to each, I wouldn't go along with blanket negative statements about either state: I like both as far as I know them. But going to live there as outsider from a pretty different place I think means steering toward relatively more outsider-oriented places in either; unless you're pretty exceptional at socially adapting or alternatively happy to be left alone in peace (where all you need is other people to show you civility and respect, where I think both states score well in great majority of areas and situations).
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by Glockenspiel »

JAZZISCOOL wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:01 pm
I had an aunt who lived in Forest Lake, MN (~30 miles NE of Minneapolis). I thought it was very pretty and met nice people when I went there to visit. There was a horse-harness racing track not too far that was interesting. I had never seen that before.
Pretty area, sure. But Forest Lake is like small town living with not much to do, rather than living in the "The Cities". There are a bunch of small towns surrounding the Metro area where the culture, economy, politics, people's personalities are vastly different than in the Twin Cities.
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by Glockenspiel »

SnowBog wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:47 am I've spent lots of time on both.

I love the Madison area, probably one of my favorite Midwest cities to visit. But I'm not sure I'd want to live there long term... It's much smaller, and offers much less as a result. It's also harder to get in and out. If you plan on traveling, you'd likely be forced to fly to Minneapolis or Chicago for connecting flights elsewhere.

Personally, I'm not a fan of "big cities" and wouldn't go out of my way to visit downturn Minneapolis or St. Paul on their own. But they offer a ton of entertainment, theaters, events, restaurants, etc. That said, I'd happily live in many of the numerous suburbs around the Twin Cities area. Many of them have their own feel, so you have tons of variety and flexibility. I haven't been to them all, but some seem like hidden gems, each offering something unique. Those within the 494 (West and South boundaries) and 694 (North and East boundaries) will have the closest proximity. But even those outside the boundary can be within 20-30 minutes (in good traffic) of most everything the area has to offer. With well established public transportation, including light rail in and areas, giving ease of access to lots of the region.

Never confirmed it personally, but have been told by people who live in MN they have some of the highest per capita bike trials, parks, and golf courses in the nation (the golf course was qualified to be outside of FL, the others weren't qualified, but they didn't claim to be the top, just near the top.) I'm sure the 10,000 lake contributed...

MN is also usually recognized for great medical care. Most people are familiar with Mayo Clinic, with their main facility a short drive south in Rochester, MN (smaller city, maybe similar in size to Madison). They have several other clinics and regional hospitals as part of their broader system. Not sure if it's because of proximity to Mayo, a result of the school systems, or other - but there's actually many more medical options in the MN area - especially around the Twin Cities area.

And MSP is the former home of Northwest Airlines, and still a major hub of Delta and other airlines. I think it's been rare I could not get a direct flight in/out of MSP from most other destinations (with exception of small airports not near MN who funnel people to larger hubs anyway) .

For "overall" beauty, nature, etc. - in my experience - they are fairly closely matched - at least the parts I've been too. Large areas of both MN and WI look a lot alike.

My one exception to that would be the North Shore area along Lake Superior from Duluth up to the Canadian border. I love the rugged cliffs against the shore, with the vastness of Lake Superior (further up the shore you'll lose sight of the WI side, and could easily think you are looking at an ocean). By contrast, I find the WI side of Lake Superior a let down. To me, it lacks the rugged beauty, and has far less to offer (although Bayfield and Madeline Island deserve a notable mention).

Personally, I dream of retiring along that North Shore area. There's few places in the US that come close to it for me. Maybe areas north of San Francisco would do, but the cost of living is vastly different (last I was there homes on the coast were far more than I'd ever want to spend on a home even if we had the money to burn).

One final point, depending on your finances, if you can afford the two households - you could consider joining the "snowbird" ranks. MN goes through all 4 seasons, and not everyone enjoys the winter, especially as they get older. Some who can afford to do so, will have a residence (or rent, RV, etc.) in another state for the winter.

For example, knew someone who lived the majority of their adult life in MN, the cold bothered them more every year coinciding with their arthritis getting worse, so they moved to FL for the winter. Over the years they extended the time they spent in FL, eventually making it their "primary" residence (and potentially avoiding state taxes). They can stay in FL until it starts to get too hot then MN (or WI) until it starts to get cold.
Pretty good synopsis by someone who doesn't live here. The bike, trails, and park system is consistently ranked either #1 or #2 in the country. Beyond the Mayo Clinic, there are many top-ranked hospitals in the Twin Cities as well, including Abbott Northwestern and M Health Fairview. Northern Minnesota is much more beautiful than northern Wisconsin. The rugged cliffs, waterfalls, expansive views high above the water along the North Shore of Lake Superior cannot be beat, and can be seen within a 2-4 hour drive from the Twin Cities. the Lake Superior shore of Wisconsin is mostly just boring flat beaches with poor accessibility.

I'm in a western suburb and can get to the airport in 20 minutes and be on a non-stop direct flight almost anywhere, including Hawaii, Paris, London, Amsterdam, Reykjavik, Germany, Mexico, the Bahamas, Alaska, any major airport on both US coasts, anywhere in Canada, etc.
OhBoyUhoh
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by OhBoyUhoh »

All the plugs for WI and MN make me want to check them out, so thanks for that. As an Ohioan who's never traveled further north than Chicago suburbs, I need to start planning some trips! What amazes me is all the discussion and not one mention of mosquitoes! :o
I had money, I had none. I had money, I had none. But I never been so broke that I couldn't leave town. (Jim, Ray, Robby, John)
dbr
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by dbr »

OhBoyUhoh wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:33 pm All the plugs for WI and MN make me want to check them out, so thanks for that. As an Ohioan who's never traveled further north than Chicago suburbs, I need to start planning some trips! What amazes me is all the discussion and not one mention of mosquitoes! :o
No problem as long as you don't let them off the leash.
Steve723
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by Steve723 »

JackoC wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:08 am
Steve723 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:36 pm
lostdog wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:22 am In Wisconsin, you'll have closer access to the Great Lakes. Door County is beautiful and it will easily beat out Minnesota in every aspect.

Northern Wisconsin is way better than anything Minnesota has to offer in terms of woods and lakes. Minocqua, Eagle River chain, Door County, The Great Lakes, etc...

Northern Wisconsin Lakes are cleaner than Minnesota lakes. Better fishing all around.

Wisconsin beats out Minnesota in every area, especially when it comes to the people, land and the Great Lakes. You're better off avoiding Minnesota.
Mmmm, sounds like a Packer homer take to me!

The north shore of Lake Superior on the Minnesota side from Duluth up to Grand Portage is breathtakingly beautiful. Grand Marais is an awesome little town at the halfway point. Not to mention the Boundary Waters Canoe Area and Gunflint Trail! Just a beautiful part of the entire country, never mind just Minnesota or Wisconsin.
I agree very beautiful area but that's the kind of place where not being from MN would be a real issue IMO, to live there full time I mean. Not only socially in isolated areas like that (Grand Marais a town of ca. 1k people with no other real towns in many miles in any direction), but just being able to stand the winters, even if you think 'I like cold weather'. That's another level of long, cold winter vs. Minneapolis winter. Although it's not unusual for Minneapolis to get outright hot in the summer but is unusual on the north shore. People we know live there, great for them, but they're from MN. To me it's a beautiful place I'd highly recommend visiting but would never consider actually living, like numerous other beautiful places in the US.

I'd reiterate based on experience of grown kids who lived in both MN and WI (we're basically from NY area) as well as other people we know who live there and a number of visits to each, I wouldn't go along with blanket negative statements about either state: I like both as far as I know them. But going to live there as outsider from a pretty different place I think means steering toward relatively more outsider-oriented places in either; unless you're pretty exceptional at socially adapting or alternatively happy to be left alone in peace (where all you need is other people to show you civility and respect, where I think both states score well in great majority of areas and situations).
Right, I wasn't suggesting living along the north shore year-round, but rather touting it as an absolute gem of an area in terms of its beauty and all it has to offer as an outdoorsy getaway destination during the summer months (they also have some downhill skiing up there in the winter, although I don't ski so I can't speak to the quality).

As it relates to the original question posed, the North Shore is a 4-hr drive from the Twin Cities versus a 7-hour drive from Madison. If the OP enjoys hiking, canoeing, kayaking, waterfront activities, and beautiful scenery, then it's a more accessible destination from the TC-area vs. Madison.
Limoncello402
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by Limoncello402 »

I lived in Madison for 8 years and have now been in the Twin Cities (St. Paul) for over 30 years. Obviously Madison has changed since I was there, but I remember that it was heaven for a graduate student but I thought not great for a working adult due to the major influence of the university and all those students dominating everything. The Twin Cities offer a ton of amenities. I'm a huge biker and kayaker. The trails are superb here and all increasingly interconnected. The lakes speak for themselves--they are everywhere. In addition, "up north" to cabin country and the Boundary Waters is incredible; a canoe trip there will change your life. You can also easily access the Wisconsin cabin country around Hayward. Moreover, the Cities offers a great deal in terms of cultural life. I'd recommend St. Paul over Mpls -- my fair city! The neighborhood I'm in is very safe and super friendly.
oldfatguy
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by oldfatguy »

LawEgr1 wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:40 pm
Firemenot wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:25 pm
vitaflo wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:23 pm
Longruninvestor wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:53 pm As a lifelong Minnesotan I must advise that making friends in this state will be extremely difficult no matter how polished your social skills. Every transplant I know has struggled and the trend seems to be they develop social networks mostly with other transplants.
This is a real concern. I've spent half my life in WI and the other half in MN. MN social circles are very insular and it's a super tough nut to crack as an outsider. WI is, well the exact opposite. Walk into a bar in WI and it's hard not to leave with new friends. Do the same in MN and good luck striking up much of a convo with anyone. Probably has something to do with the cultural heritage of the two states (Scandinavian vs German).

Don't get me wrong, I love MN but it's something to be aware of before you move. It's not that the people there aren't friendly, it's just that they don't like to be bothered by other people they don't already know. Wisconsinites in comparison tend to revel in idle chit chat.
My experience exactly too. And with bars too.
I generally agree with all of this. It's a definite + for WI.
I guess I'll be the dissenter. I've been in WI for 18 years now, and my experience here has been the opposite.
alex_686
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by alex_686 »

Random Poster wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:49 pm
Cycle wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:57 pm
Many, many people in my neighborhood are retirees living in condos (1200 Nicollet Mall, 1225 LaSalle, Loring Green, Loring way or townhomes (Greenway Gables) or renting (110 Grant, Eitel, LPM)
I really appreciate it when a poster provides specific information like this.

That said, a quick look at Zillow makes it clear that, despite how lovely this area sounds, there is no way that I could afford the HOA fees in these buildings.
It depends on what you are looking for. I strongly suspect that you were looking at the higher end units with more amenities. That being said I am not a real fan of living in a downtown environment which is dominated by high rises.

I would look to the neighbors just to the southwest, Lowry & Lyndale. Urban environment including experimental theater, good restaurants, independent shops, etc. Dense residential environment that has a good mixture of housing stock. Cheap and expensive. Single family to small low rise apartments. There are some dense apartment blocks along the main roads but that is the expectation rather than the rule.
Former brokerage operations & mutual fund accountant. I hate risk, which is why I study and embrace it.
bstevlin
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by bstevlin »

Hebell wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:31 pm [Moved into a new thread from: Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN..Any advice? --admin LadyGeek]

Can we revive this for a retired couple that makes friends easily but doesn't know anybody in Minnesota or Wisconsin? We love cold weather.
Very active cyclists, would certainly join a recumbent trike club. Have our own canoe, which we would probably keep at a local boat club. Would join local meetup groups for board games, or dinner gatherings. Want close proximity to good restaurants, libraries, parks, community centers, experimental theater, and wherever people hang out. Don't care about sports clubs, job hunting or brew pubs. Love swimming, would love to be near an aquatics center. Snowmobiling or dog sledding outings, we love them both. We need to make the best of our sixties but know that we also need to reduce our fall risks and have access to good healthcare.

Minneapolis / St Paul or Madison

Badger here. For all the activities you're looking for its twin cities hands down. If your are a young family raising kids then Madison suburbs are as good as it gets.
bstevlin
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by bstevlin »

bstevlin wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:26 pm
Hebell wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:31 pm [Moved into a new thread from: Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN..Any advice? --admin LadyGeek]

Can we revive this for a retired couple that makes friends easily but doesn't know anybody in Minnesota or Wisconsin? We love cold weather.
Very active cyclists, would certainly join a recumbent trike club. Have our own canoe, which we would probably keep at a local boat club. Would join local meetup groups for board games, or dinner gatherings. Want close proximity to good restaurants, libraries, parks, community centers, experimental theater, and wherever people hang out. Don't care about sports clubs, job hunting or brew pubs. Love swimming, would love to be near an aquatics center. Snowmobiling or dog sledding outings, we love them both. We need to make the best of our sixties but know that we also need to reduce our fall risks and have access to good healthcare.

Minneapolis / St Paul or Madison

Badger here. For all the activities you're looking for its twin cities hands down. If you're a young family raising kids then Madison suburbs are as good as it gets.
bstevlin
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by bstevlin »

bstevlin wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:50 pm
bstevlin wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:26 pm
Hebell wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:31 pm [Moved into a new thread from: Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN..Any advice? --admin LadyGeek]

Can we revive this for a retired couple that makes friends easily but doesn't know anybody in Minnesota or Wisconsin? We love cold weather.
Very active cyclists, would certainly join a recumbent trike club. Have our own canoe, which we would probably keep at a local boat club. Would join local meetup groups for board games, or dinner gatherings. Want close proximity to good restaurants, libraries, parks, community centers, experimental theater, and wherever people hang out. Don't care about sports clubs, job hunting or brew pubs. Love swimming, would love to be near an aquatics center. Snowmobiling or dog sledding outings, we love them both. We need to make the best of our sixties but know that we also need to reduce our fall risks and have access to good healthcare.

Minneapolis / St Paul or Madison

Duplicate post
stoptothink
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by stoptothink »

MRMN wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:36 am Before choosing Minneapolis, consider the following:

https://www.fox9.com/news/walz-state-wi ... -necessary

https://www.fox9.com/news/feds-provide- ... win-cities
Probably off-topic for this board. I have visited Minneapolis a few times and IMO it is absolutely gorgeous; on the short-list of areas I'd consider moving my family to (for many reasons outside of the natural beauty). My wife was there for two weeks visiting family a few years ago and had similar thoughts. I get the impression that there are some things happening there - ummm, the last 2yrs or so - that might make me reconsider if it was somewhere I wanted to live.
SnowBog
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by SnowBog »

stoptothink wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:45 am
MRMN wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:36 am Before choosing Minneapolis, consider the following:

https://www.fox9.com/news/walz-state-wi ... -necessary

https://www.fox9.com/news/feds-provide- ... win-cities
Probably off-topic for this board. I have visited Minneapolis a few times and IMO it is absolutely gorgeous; on the short-list of areas I'd consider moving my family to (for many reasons outside of the natural beauty). My wife was there for two weeks visiting family a few years ago and had similar thoughts. I get the impression that there are some things happening there - ummm, the last 2yrs or so - that might make me reconsider if it was somewhere I wanted to live.
As a reminder - Minneapolis is just one city.

As I'd assume exists in any "big city", there are areas of Minneapolis I'd avoid. But it's the much larger "twin city area", with all of its suburbs both "within" the central ring and immediately outside it, that provides so many options - and access to so much goodness. From great cultural areas, theaters, restaurants, parks, etc. "downtown" - to many of the same spread throughout the immediate area - tons of choice and flexibility.

For the record - they must be fraternal twins - as Minneapolis and St. Paul aren't even remotely close to "twins".
Topic Author
Hebell
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by Hebell »

Just an update here. I plan to scout out neighborhoods next month on my own. After that, Hubby and I, together, plan to go at the end of January into February for the 2023 Winter Carnival. I think it is important to see it at its absolute coldest, and use public transportation and visit the libraries and community centers and main dining districts at that time. Winona also keeps coming up in surveys of places that would suit us, but the more extensive cycling network in the Twin Cities, combined with access to the northern lakes, keeps us focused on that area. (Cost of living calculators comparing Minneapolis vs Winona shows that comes at a 35% upcharge!)
rmdashrfsplat
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by rmdashrfsplat »

Id recommend at least a day trip to check out Winona, La Crosse and the rest of the driftless region when youre in the region. A definite step down in size and farther away from Northern Minnesota lakes, but it is a pretty cool area. Also it will usually be at least one or two degrees warmer than the twin cities :happy
MichDad
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by MichDad »

Here's a comparison of the conditions for bicyclists in Madison, Minneapolis, Saint Paul, and Winona:

Madison -- https://bikeleague.org/sites/default/fi ... son_WI.pdf

Minneapolis -- https://bikeleague.org/sites/default/fi ... lis_MN.pdf

Saint Paul -- https://bikeleague.org/sites/default/fi ... aul_MN.pdf

Winona -- https://bikeleague.org/sites/default/fi ... ona_MN.pdf

MichDad
Dude2
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by Dude2 »

I am a Floridian who was recruited to Madison in my lower 30's during the dot com bubble for big bucks, but it didn't take (left prior to a year). I've also tried upstate NY for about 7 years (got stuck, and took that long to escape). I get it that a Floridian wants a change. To me it all comes down to culture. It isn't the weather, it's the people. There are simply fundamental differences in culture. Plus, when I was in Madison, it was approximately 99.7% white. This was a real shocker, and just stated as a fact, not meant to imply anything sinister about that. It was simply weirdly different. The Midwest is something else entirely versus the East Coast.

The OP went to school up there and is 26 is what I get from the other thread, so it isn't an older couple looking to retire up there. I think we're just talking about ennui. As somebody who has been there, I don't recommend drastic changes to one's life. Gradual, moderate changes are more likely to stick, and there are always risks to your financial well-being in making drastic moves. (Sorry, a bit confused as to the OP, I guess this is a retired couple).

All that being said, if given a do-over, I might try MN vs WI. This is a very personal thing where the place has to match up to the personality.

I totally get that exercising (and outdoorsy things) in FL is a challenge, but remember that those northern states go into lockdown for several months of the year.
Then ’tis like the breath of an unfee’d lawyer.
MostWonderfulTime
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by MostWonderfulTime »

Hello -
I sent you a PM on this topic; would love to help you get the most out of your scouting trip to Minneapolis next month.
Carousel
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by Carousel »

Glockenspiel wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:20 am
Peter Foley wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:26 pm
Note: there are areas of the Twin Cities that are not particularly safe, especially at night.
In almost every large city in America, use common sense and don't instigate conflict with strangers at nighttime and you'll be fine. Same is true in Minneapolis/St. Paul.
I have to side with Peter on this one. The Twin Cities have changed enormously over the past 15 years. It is no longer safe to walk near my family's house after dark (muggings and other assaults). Lots of carjackings. Police won't necessarily come out for minor car accidents, etc. This year, the State Fair was shut down early one night due to gunfire and gang activity on the Midway. The news reports said, "It happened directly in front of DOZENS of uniformed police officers." We left the Fair at 4 PM that day. No one I knew was surprised by the events of the evening.
SnowBog
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Re: [Retired couple] Thinking about moving to Madison, WI or Minneapolis, MN

Post by SnowBog »

Dude2 wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:15 am ...but remember that those northern states go into lockdown for several months of the year.
Not necessarily true...

You dress for the weather. Properly dressed, you can enjoy outdoor activities all year long if you want. If you don't want to, then yes, you'll likely spend the winter months avoiding being outside...

This differs from being too hot, where there's a limit to how much clothing you can remove before you get funny looks, and even then it might not be enough to be comfortable.
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