Evaluating Two Job Offers
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Evaluating Two Job Offers
Dear Bogleheads,
I am hoping for some assistance in evaluating two job offers. I’ll need to respond to each in the next week or so and appreciate your input and advice. The third option is remaining where I am.
Option #1:
$130,000
Director level title
Work remotely with travel on a monthly basis
6% 401K match after the first year, 5 year vesting
Small organization, but national in scope
No immediate opportunity for internal advancement, but would establish a national base from which to advance later
Option #2:
$140,000
Executive Director level title
Work in office daily
30 mile commute (60 miles round trip - could cost upwards of $4,000 per year in gas and related costs)
Less frequent travel (likely 5-6 times per year)
13% 401K match, immediate vesting and begins immediately
Large organization but local/regional in scope (with a very strong local reputation
Could have internal opportunities to advance
Option #3: Remain with Current Employer
$96,000
Director level title
Work in office daily, minimal commute (4 miles)
Minimal travel
No 401K match
No opportunities to advance internally
Have only been with the employer for 18 months, so I’m worried about the perception of job hopping
I would love to know which option you would pick and why - and any advice on my job hopping concern. You can assume all benefits are substantially equal between the three. Thank you so much for your advice!
I am hoping for some assistance in evaluating two job offers. I’ll need to respond to each in the next week or so and appreciate your input and advice. The third option is remaining where I am.
Option #1:
$130,000
Director level title
Work remotely with travel on a monthly basis
6% 401K match after the first year, 5 year vesting
Small organization, but national in scope
No immediate opportunity for internal advancement, but would establish a national base from which to advance later
Option #2:
$140,000
Executive Director level title
Work in office daily
30 mile commute (60 miles round trip - could cost upwards of $4,000 per year in gas and related costs)
Less frequent travel (likely 5-6 times per year)
13% 401K match, immediate vesting and begins immediately
Large organization but local/regional in scope (with a very strong local reputation
Could have internal opportunities to advance
Option #3: Remain with Current Employer
$96,000
Director level title
Work in office daily, minimal commute (4 miles)
Minimal travel
No 401K match
No opportunities to advance internally
Have only been with the employer for 18 months, so I’m worried about the perception of job hopping
I would love to know which option you would pick and why - and any advice on my job hopping concern. You can assume all benefits are substantially equal between the three. Thank you so much for your advice!
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Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
I would pick option 1, but I'm not you. For us to advise you on which one you should pick we'd need more info about your situation.
How far into your career are you? Do you have a family? If you have a spouse, do they work? Are you close to FI or just starting out? Is the 30 mile commute all highway with little traffic or are you trying to go across some large city that will take over an hour? How many other jobs have you had that you think you might be labeled a job hopper? What are your financial goals?
How far into your career are you? Do you have a family? If you have a spouse, do they work? Are you close to FI or just starting out? Is the 30 mile commute all highway with little traffic or are you trying to go across some large city that will take over an hour? How many other jobs have you had that you think you might be labeled a job hopper? What are your financial goals?
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Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
Thanks for the response. All great questions! I’ll try to tackle each.PowderDay9 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:07 pm I would pick option 1, but I'm not you. For us to advise you on which one you should pick we'd need more info about your situation.
How far into your career are you? Do you have a family? If you have a spouse, do they work? Are you close to FI or just starting out? Is the 30 mile commute all highway with little traffic or are you trying to go across some large city that will take over an hour? How many other jobs have you had that you think you might be labeled a job hopper? What are your financial goals?
I’m 10 years into my career. I have had 4 employers with tenures of 2.5, 2.5, 3.5, and 1.5 years (the latter being my current employer). We’re about 40% of the way to FI and want to accelerate, which is a significant financial goal. My spouse works in a very stable job earning around $82,000. And as for the commute with option 2, it’s highway - but one that is often subject to significant traffic snarls.
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Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
Any plans for kids? Do you prefer remote or being in the office? Are all 3 jobs very similar or are you more interested in 1?
I'm still thinking option 1 is most ideal. I wouldn't worry about the job hopping unless this is really unusual for your industry.
I'm still thinking option 1 is most ideal. I wouldn't worry about the job hopping unless this is really unusual for your industry.
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Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
Thanks. No plans for kids. The jobs are all somewhat similar, although Option 1 has less management responsibility than either of the others. I worry slightly about losing out on that management experience which would be very extensive with Option 2.PowderDay9 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:21 pm Any plans for kids? Do you prefer remote or being in the office? Are all 3 jobs very similar or are you more interested in 1?
I'm still thinking option 1 is most ideal. I wouldn't worry about the job hopping unless this is really unusual for your industry.
If all else was equal, I prefer being remote.
Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
Commuting when the gas prices are this high and it's a finite resource seems worrisome. Also, your quality of life when you are near your home, whether you go in to the office or not will be much higher. You can make friends at work if you work in the office and you will have time to join clubs, organizations, volunteer, or play on a team for fun and make some friends if you live at home. You can use that commute time to enjoy life.
Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
For me a 60 mile commute is a non starter. Especially since you said it was often heavy traffic. The offer and growth opportunity would have to be so good that I would sell my house and move to eliminate the commute. My quality of life improved so substantially after moving two miles from work that I swore I’d never have a 25 minute commute ever again. The match is nice but I’d have a hard time being able to square the circle of a benefit I won’t see for years vs an immediate cost to my personal well being. But hey, some people love commuting as a way to listen to audio books or just take a mental break. Me, I just wanna have my cat yell at me about where I’ve been all day as soon as possible.
As for missing out on management experience, honestly, you’re a good manager or you’re not. From what I’ve seen time in the seat doesn’t say bo diddly about an ability to lead. Protect your people from management above you, cut through red tape so they can actually work, be honest and be clear about what success looks like to be a good employee. Time can let you see down the road further and visualize more challenges and solutions, maybe not much more when it comes to the social aspect of managing.
As for missing out on management experience, honestly, you’re a good manager or you’re not. From what I’ve seen time in the seat doesn’t say bo diddly about an ability to lead. Protect your people from management above you, cut through red tape so they can actually work, be honest and be clear about what success looks like to be a good employee. Time can let you see down the road further and visualize more challenges and solutions, maybe not much more when it comes to the social aspect of managing.
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Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
Thanks for the advice, everyone.
I’ve learned that with Option 2, the compensation package might stretch closer to $150,000. With the significant 401K contribution there, it might meaningfully move the needle on which option makes the most sense. We could consider moving to reduce the commute, but I’m unlikely to pursue that in the current interest rate environment. We have a 2.5%, 15 year mortgage and love our home/neighborhood.
I suppose the real question is whether the additional money makes up for all those hours spent commuting and the time spent sitting in an office. From a lifestyle perspective, certainly not. But it might advance my FI date/goal meaningfully.
I’ve learned that with Option 2, the compensation package might stretch closer to $150,000. With the significant 401K contribution there, it might meaningfully move the needle on which option makes the most sense. We could consider moving to reduce the commute, but I’m unlikely to pursue that in the current interest rate environment. We have a 2.5%, 15 year mortgage and love our home/neighborhood.
I suppose the real question is whether the additional money makes up for all those hours spent commuting and the time spent sitting in an office. From a lifestyle perspective, certainly not. But it might advance my FI date/goal meaningfully.
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Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
I’m probably 15 or 20 years older than you and can state quite emphatically that extra money does not make up for time commuting. Commuting is an expensive and soul sucking waste of time. I understand being young and wanting to retire as soon as possible, but I’d like to suggest an alternative. The alternative is finding work that you enjoy enough to want to do for a bit and find a good place to do it—A place where your skills and talents contribute to the organization and you feel valued and part of a team. Just an alternative mindset you may consider. Personally I would probably choose option one.
I believe we only get this one life. Why waste even a day schlepping around town to a job just for a bit of extra money and a loftier title?
I believe we only get this one life. Why waste even a day schlepping around town to a job just for a bit of extra money and a loftier title?
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Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
Very good point. It's hard to put a price on having a good life day to day.WorkToLive wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:57 pm I’m probably 15 or 20 years older than you and can state quite emphatically that extra money does not make up for time commuting. Commuting is an expensive and soul sucking waste of time. I understand being young and wanting to retire as soon as possible, but I’d like to suggest an alternative. The alternative is finding work that you enjoy enough to want to do for a bit and find a good place to do it—A place where your skills and talents contribute to the organization and you feel valued and part of a team. Just an alternative mindset you may consider. Personally I would probably choose option one.
I believe we only get this one life. Why waste even a day schlepping around town to a job just for a bit of extra money and a loftier title?
Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
I like option 1 personally, I don't mind going into an office on occasion when it makes sense to do so, but no way would I travel to and sit in an office on a regular basis, if the company expects that..no thanks
Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
Option 2 if you can move closer to the job; otherwise go with option 1.
Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
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Last edited by mary1492 on Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
The issue I'd have with job #2 isn't the commute, it's being in an office in general
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Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
Option 2 and move closer to the office. Option 1 is $20k less per year. How many years extra do you think it would it take to get that much of a raise at Option 1? That's how many years you'd have to spend catching up to where you'd be now with Option 2.
I also don't like the 5yr vesting in Option 1; the salary difference is even higher if you exclude the 6% match.
I also don't like the 5yr vesting in Option 1; the salary difference is even higher if you exclude the 6% match.
50% VTI / 50% VXUS
Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
I would consider Option 2 with moving. If you have no interest in moving 60 miles/day commute is a tough pill to swallow.
Nothing stopping you from continuing to look as well.
Nothing stopping you from continuing to look as well.
Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
Option 1. Who wants to sit in an office all day? Very unhealthy.
Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
I would not worry about being seen as a job hopper in the least, with each of your options you mention a couple of good solid explanations that would make sense to any interviewer asking you about it in the next job (or the one after that!). It wouldn’t really set off red flags in normal times, and we aren’t even in normal times in the corporate world right now. I’ve had 6 AVPs in 5 years.
"You can't latte yourself to bankruptcy. The bladder won't allow it." |
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Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
I did a 27 mi trip each way, 4-5 days/week for several years and it was a long time wasted driving 2-3 hours each day, sometimes more when there was a wreck on the interstate. But we have a really nice home away in the country just outside a major metropolitan area so that mitigated the commute some. I would not have moved closer to my office to cut my commute. Retired last summer so no longer commuting but grateful I had the position.
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Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
I would think with two job offers you could counter Option #1 at $140,000. On a total compensation level, you have a much higher option for #2. Did you counter number 1 and ask for $140,000 given their weak 401k (5-year vesting, although I suspect it is graded, is still a dinosaur in 2022) and lower salary. Reading, it sounds like the remote is really what you want. If these are truly final offers, I find flipping a coin helps greatly in these situations. It tells you what you really want. If it lands heads and you are disappointed, well, there you go, you want the other option.
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Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
Either Option 1 or Option 2 depends how much you value working remotely. Option 3 shouldn't even be an option.
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Re: Evaluating Two Job Offers
Thanks for the input. I have countered with Option 1. Unfortunately, this is the absolute max they can do. You’re right their vesting is graded, but still an old fashioned and essentially useless approach for the upwardly mobile employee.BeneIRA wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:33 pm I would think with two job offers you could counter Option #1 at $140,000. On a total compensation level, you have a much higher option for #2. Did you counter number 1 and ask for $140,000 given their weak 401k (5-year vesting, although I suspect it is graded, is still a dinosaur in 2022) and lower salary. Reading, it sounds like the remote is really what you want. If these are truly final offers, I find flipping a coin helps greatly in these situations. It tells you what you really want. If it lands heads and you are disappointed, well, there you go, you want the other option.