That may lead to paying for a long time.HomerJ wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:33 pmIf I'm paying, I see the grades.dekecarver wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:56 pm If you are paying for your kid's college tuition plus other expenses, you really don't need to look at their grades, just look at the monthly credit card statements and ATM withdrawals. And if they show up on your doorstep at the end of the semester or mid-semester, just let them in knowing that you raised them with a good foundation to fall back on until they are ready to try it again, or not.
Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
I understood. Humans are very good at generalizing. If we’ve faced plenty of uncertainty and failure in various areas, that serves us in novel situations.KlangFool wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:58 amYou missed my point totally. Usually, engineering students are smart kids. They only face their first academic failure in college. It is normal to be their first time.Pinenut wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:55 amMy point exactly, this should not be the first time they face failure. If one protects their children the entirety of their adolescence, the product will be an incapable adult child. We’ve raised Buddhas, sheltered in their palaces. Give them the freedom to get messy early on in life and they will have experience when they face real trials and tribulations. It may be too late for OPs daughter in this situation but if mindset doesn’t change, the same situation will play out in other areas. I’ve got helicopter in-laws and I’m constantly reminding them that their anxiety is for themselves, let my kid be. I subscribe to a free range parenting style; show them how, let them help, watch them do it then let them do it (truly don’t interfere)KlangFool wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:08 pmIt is normal to receive bad grade in some subject. We cannot be good in everything. And, that is when some smart student took the loss too personally and drop out of the engineering. This is the first time that they faced failure and they took it badly. They did not realize that it is normal.
KlangFool
"You rarely have time for everything you want in this life, so you need to make choices. Hopefully your choices can come from a deep sense of who you are" - Fred Rogers
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
??Northern Flicker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:16 pmThat may lead to paying for a long time.HomerJ wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:33 pmIf I'm paying, I see the grades.dekecarver wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:56 pm If you are paying for your kid's college tuition plus other expenses, you really don't need to look at their grades, just look at the monthly credit card statements and ATM withdrawals. And if they show up on your doorstep at the end of the semester or mid-semester, just let them in knowing that you raised them with a good foundation to fall back on until they are ready to try it again, or not.
If the grades are bad, that probably leads me to paying a lot less.
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
The fostering of dependence may lead to paying for alot more than just school.HomerJ wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:16 pm??Northern Flicker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:16 pmThat may lead to paying for a long time.HomerJ wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:33 pmIf I'm paying, I see the grades.dekecarver wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:56 pm If you are paying for your kid's college tuition plus other expenses, you really don't need to look at their grades, just look at the monthly credit card statements and ATM withdrawals. And if they show up on your doorstep at the end of the semester or mid-semester, just let them in knowing that you raised them with a good foundation to fall back on until they are ready to try it again, or not.
If the grades are bad, that probably leads me to paying a lot less.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
Northern Flicker,Northern Flicker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:25 pm
The fostering of dependence may lead to paying for alot more than just school.
Many of my kids' parent foster their children's independence by doing "don't ask and don't tell". And, their children had been unemployed staying at home since college graduation.
So, I do not see the so called fostering of independence ended up with good outcome too.
No. I do not have the right answer. I do not know the right answer. To each its own. Parenting is hard work.
I told my daughter not to work too hard. I told my son to work harder. There is no simple straight forward answer. And, in spite of the parent's best effort, it may still not work out.
KlangFool
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
Heh, it's the opposite in my mind.Northern Flicker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:25 pmThe fostering of dependence may lead to paying for alot more than just school.HomerJ wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:16 pm??Northern Flicker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:16 pmThat may lead to paying for a long time.HomerJ wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:33 pmIf I'm paying, I see the grades.dekecarver wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:56 pm If you are paying for your kid's college tuition plus other expenses, you really don't need to look at their grades, just look at the monthly credit card statements and ATM withdrawals. And if they show up on your doorstep at the end of the semester or mid-semester, just let them in knowing that you raised them with a good foundation to fall back on until they are ready to try it again, or not.
If the grades are bad, that probably leads me to paying a lot less.
Cutting them off would be the tough love required to teach them INDEPENDENCE.
Continuing to pay for a kid blindly while he or she gets Ds and Fs in school while partying is the thing that would teach dependence.
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
I’m with HomerJ here. I view college as those four years where they metamorphosis from knuckle heads to functioning adults. And I’m here to provide guidance during that process. Most newly minted high school grads need some guidance…..HomerJ wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:31 pmHeh, it's the opposite in my mind.Northern Flicker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:25 pmThe fostering of dependence may lead to paying for alot more than just school.
Cutting them off would be the tough love required to teach them INDEPENDENCE.
Continuing to pay for a kid blindly while he or she gets Ds and Fs in school while partying is the thing that would teach dependence.
And yeah, if I’m writing big checks, there will be strings attached.
Others may just YOLO the whole thing, that’s their prerogative.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
I don't believe anyone is saying that they have a legal right to their kids' grades in college. My kid is not legally obligated to show me her grades, just as her mother and I are not legally obligated to write tuition checks. But in our family, the precondition for us to write those checks is for her to maintain a minimum GPA and remain on a path to graduate in 4 years - and to satisfy that precondition I need to see grades. No grades, no money from us. As I've said upthread, I've never had a problem getting those grade reports.AnEngineer wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:04 pmI've seen this a couple times and want to highlight that this is a moral argument. There is no right in the legal sense. You cannot compel the school to give you the grades. As has been pointed out, the school cannot share grades legally without permission, regardless of whether you write the checks.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
>>And, in spite of the parent's best effort, it may still not work out.
Just a slight change: And, in spite of the parent's best effort, it may still work out.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
Hope is not a strategy.
We taught our kids how to save and invest since they were young. They graduated college with 20K to 30K of their own savings and investment. They are saving about 1 year of expense every year now. We do not count on anyone else to teach our kids how to save and invest.
KlangFool
Last edited by KlangFool on Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
If I didn’t trust my son/daughter to inform me honestly how things are going, then I could see a shorter leash.Normchad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:36 pmI’m with HomerJ here. I view college as those four years where they metamorphosis from knuckle heads to functioning adults. And I’m here to provide guidance during that process. Most newly minted high school grads need some guidance…..HomerJ wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:31 pmHeh, it's the opposite in my mind.Northern Flicker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:25 pmThe fostering of dependence may lead to paying for alot more than just school.
Cutting them off would be the tough love required to teach them INDEPENDENCE.
Continuing to pay for a kid blindly while he or she gets Ds and Fs in school while partying is the thing that would teach dependence.
And yeah, if I’m writing big checks, there will be strings attached.
Others may just YOLO the whole thing, that’s their prerogative.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
C's get degrees.atlanta_dad wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:11 pm My daughter is joining for an Engineering undergrad (undecided major) at Virginia Tech this fall. I haven't gone to college in US, I was wondering what is considered a good GPA that she should aim to pass out for better job prospects. Thanks in advance!
Edited: Also, do parents track their children's grades (or left it to them as they are college going and they should be responsible) in their undergrad when they are away / out of state college? Do colleges send grades home in mail as the high-schools do? I hope my daughter will be serious and responsible but I am having hard time imagining the next 4 years. I need to order an amazon book and get ready by the time she leaves
Might sound flippant, but after about 3 years of engineering experience, nobody cares about your undergraduate GPA. They just care about the fact you have an engineering degree.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
miamivice,miamivice wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:54 pmC's get degrees.atlanta_dad wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:11 pm My daughter is joining for an Engineering undergrad (undecided major) at Virginia Tech this fall. I haven't gone to college in US, I was wondering what is considered a good GPA that she should aim to pass out for better job prospects. Thanks in advance!
Edited: Also, do parents track their children's grades (or left it to them as they are college going and they should be responsible) in their undergrad when they are away / out of state college? Do colleges send grades home in mail as the high-schools do? I hope my daughter will be serious and responsible but I am having hard time imagining the next 4 years. I need to order an amazon book and get ready by the time she leaves
Might sound flippant, but after about 3 years of engineering experience, nobody cares about your undergraduate GPA. They just care about the fact you have an engineering degree.
You cannot graduate with an engineering degree from VTech with Cs. You would be kicked out of the engineering college.
KlangFool
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
That’s not true.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:06 pmmiamivice,miamivice wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:54 pmC's get degrees.atlanta_dad wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:11 pm My daughter is joining for an Engineering undergrad (undecided major) at Virginia Tech this fall. I haven't gone to college in US, I was wondering what is considered a good GPA that she should aim to pass out for better job prospects. Thanks in advance!
Edited: Also, do parents track their children's grades (or left it to them as they are college going and they should be responsible) in their undergrad when they are away / out of state college? Do colleges send grades home in mail as the high-schools do? I hope my daughter will be serious and responsible but I am having hard time imagining the next 4 years. I need to order an amazon book and get ready by the time she leaves
Might sound flippant, but after about 3 years of engineering experience, nobody cares about your undergraduate GPA. They just care about the fact you have an engineering degree.
You cannot graduate with an engineering degree from VTech with Cs. You would be kicked out of the engineering college.
KlangFool
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
My son graduated from VTech. Please show me how a person can be a Vtech engineering graduate with an CGPA of 2.0 .Normchad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:52 pmThat’s not true.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:06 pmmiamivice,miamivice wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:54 pmC's get degrees.atlanta_dad wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:11 pm My daughter is joining for an Engineering undergrad (undecided major) at Virginia Tech this fall. I haven't gone to college in US, I was wondering what is considered a good GPA that she should aim to pass out for better job prospects. Thanks in advance!
Edited: Also, do parents track their children's grades (or left it to them as they are college going and they should be responsible) in their undergrad when they are away / out of state college? Do colleges send grades home in mail as the high-schools do? I hope my daughter will be serious and responsible but I am having hard time imagining the next 4 years. I need to order an amazon book and get ready by the time she leaves
Might sound flippant, but after about 3 years of engineering experience, nobody cares about your undergraduate GPA. They just care about the fact you have an engineering degree.
You cannot graduate with an engineering degree from VTech with Cs. You would be kicked out of the engineering college.
KlangFool
This is for VTech general degree. Engineering college has tougher requirement.
https://www.undergradcatalog.registrar. ... icies.html
"Academic Warning: Students earning less than a 2.00 term GPA, but with a cumulative grade point average of 2.00 or higher, will be placed on academic warning without notation on the academic transcript. Students on academic warning will be required to consult with the appropriate undergraduate assistant or associate dean of their college and to sign an academic contract. Failure to complete an action plan (academic contract) may result in prohibition from future enrollment(s).
Academic probation is imposed when a student's cumulative GPA is less than 2.00; academic probation is lifted when their cumulative GPA is at least 2.00. Academic performance will be reviewed at the end of each regular semester (fall and spring).
A student on probation:
may take no more than 16 credits per semester;
may be required (at the discretion of individual colleges) to consult with an academic advisor regularly and to sign an academic contract acknowledging their performance is not meeting university standards and stating what actions they are committed to taking to improve academic performance."
KlangFool
Last edited by KlangFool on Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
is your reply meant for me? sorry, just not following your response to my tongue in cheek reply, which, if you think about it a bit, is basically agreeing with your position.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:49 pmHope is not a strategy.
We taught our kids how to save and invest since they were young. They graduated college with 20K to 30K of their own savings and investment. They are saving about 1 year of expense every year now. We do not count on anyone else to teach our kids how to save and invest.
KlangFool
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
Your quote from VT says that a student with a 2.0 is in good standing. A student who gets a “C” in every single engineering course would be in good standing and graduate.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:03 pmMy son graduated from VTech. Please show me how a person can be a Vtech engineering graduate with an CGPA of 2.0 .Normchad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:52 pmThat’s not true.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:06 pmmiamivice,miamivice wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:54 pmC's get degrees.atlanta_dad wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:11 pm My daughter is joining for an Engineering undergrad (undecided major) at Virginia Tech this fall. I haven't gone to college in US, I was wondering what is considered a good GPA that she should aim to pass out for better job prospects. Thanks in advance!
Edited: Also, do parents track their children's grades (or left it to them as they are college going and they should be responsible) in their undergrad when they are away / out of state college? Do colleges send grades home in mail as the high-schools do? I hope my daughter will be serious and responsible but I am having hard time imagining the next 4 years. I need to order an amazon book and get ready by the time she leaves
Might sound flippant, but after about 3 years of engineering experience, nobody cares about your undergraduate GPA. They just care about the fact you have an engineering degree.
You cannot graduate with an engineering degree from VTech with Cs. You would be kicked out of the engineering college.
KlangFool
This is for VTech general degree. Engineering college has tougher requirement.
https://www.undergradcatalog.registrar. ... icies.html
"Academic Warning: Students earning less than a 2.00 term GPA, but with a cumulative grade point average of 2.00 or higher, will be placed on academic warning without notation on the academic transcript. Students on academic warning will be required to consult with the appropriate undergraduate assistant or associate dean of their college and to sign an academic contract. Failure to complete an action plan (academic contract) may result in prohibition from future enrollment(s).
Academic probation is imposed when a student's cumulative GPA is less than 2.00; academic probation is lifted when their cumulative GPA is at least 2.00. Academic performance will be reviewed at the end of each regular semester (fall and spring).
A student on probation:
may take no more than 16 credits per semester;
may be required (at the discretion of individual colleges) to consult with an academic advisor regularly and to sign an academic contract acknowledging their performance is not meeting university standards and stating what actions they are committed to taking to improve academic performance."
KlangFool
“Degrees with Cs” is a thing for a reason. A “C” is a passing grade in every undergrad course that I’ve ever heard of.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
I don't know the degree policies of every college in the United States, but generally, a few Cs will still count toward graduation. So, in general, Cs get degrees.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:06 pmmiamivice,miamivice wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:54 pmC's get degrees.atlanta_dad wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:11 pm My daughter is joining for an Engineering undergrad (undecided major) at Virginia Tech this fall. I haven't gone to college in US, I was wondering what is considered a good GPA that she should aim to pass out for better job prospects. Thanks in advance!
Edited: Also, do parents track their children's grades (or left it to them as they are college going and they should be responsible) in their undergrad when they are away / out of state college? Do colleges send grades home in mail as the high-schools do? I hope my daughter will be serious and responsible but I am having hard time imagining the next 4 years. I need to order an amazon book and get ready by the time she leaves
Might sound flippant, but after about 3 years of engineering experience, nobody cares about your undergraduate GPA. They just care about the fact you have an engineering degree.
You cannot graduate with an engineering degree from VTech with Cs. You would be kicked out of the engineering college.
KlangFool
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
D for "done" if you don't get too many of them
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
At least at some colleges a "D" will still get your credit for graduation especially if it is not in your major.
Don't ask me know how I know.
Also please do not ask me to conjugate German verbs.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
In summary, you don't know the policy specifics to Vtech engineering college.Normchad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:13 pmYour quote from VT says that a student with a 2.0 is in good standing. A student who gets a “C” in every single engineering course would be in good standing and graduate.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:03 pmMy son graduated from VTech. Please show me how a person can be a Vtech engineering graduate with an CGPA of 2.0 .
This is for VTech general degree. Engineering college has tougher requirement.
https://www.undergradcatalog.registrar. ... icies.html
"Academic Warning: Students earning less than a 2.00 term GPA, but with a cumulative grade point average of 2.00 or higher, will be placed on academic warning without notation on the academic transcript. Students on academic warning will be required to consult with the appropriate undergraduate assistant or associate dean of their college and to sign an academic contract. Failure to complete an action plan (academic contract) may result in prohibition from future enrollment(s).
Academic probation is imposed when a student's cumulative GPA is less than 2.00; academic probation is lifted when their cumulative GPA is at least 2.00. Academic performance will be reviewed at the end of each regular semester (fall and spring).
A student on probation:
may take no more than 16 credits per semester;
may be required (at the discretion of individual colleges) to consult with an academic advisor regularly and to sign an academic contract acknowledging their performance is not meeting university standards and stating what actions they are committed to taking to improve academic performance."
KlangFool
“Degrees with Cs” is a thing for a reason. A “C” is a passing grade in every undergrad course that I’ve ever heard of.
KlangFool
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
In specific, it is not possible for Vtech engineering with all Cs. You would be kicked out of the engineering college. And, that is the college we are discussing in this topic.miamivice wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:14 pmI don't know the degree policies of every college in the United States, but generally, a few Cs will still count toward graduation. So, in general, Cs get degrees.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:06 pmmiamivice,miamivice wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:54 pmC's get degrees.atlanta_dad wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:11 pm My daughter is joining for an Engineering undergrad (undecided major) at Virginia Tech this fall. I haven't gone to college in US, I was wondering what is considered a good GPA that she should aim to pass out for better job prospects. Thanks in advance!
Edited: Also, do parents track their children's grades (or left it to them as they are college going and they should be responsible) in their undergrad when they are away / out of state college? Do colleges send grades home in mail as the high-schools do? I hope my daughter will be serious and responsible but I am having hard time imagining the next 4 years. I need to order an amazon book and get ready by the time she leaves
Might sound flippant, but after about 3 years of engineering experience, nobody cares about your undergraduate GPA. They just care about the fact you have an engineering degree.
You cannot graduate with an engineering degree from VTech with Cs. You would be kicked out of the engineering college.
KlangFool
KlangFool
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
I don't know what real Engineering is like, but in the world of software development I've never had employers care about GPA, most of the time they don't even care if your chosen major is relevant. And this is true for even the big name brand companies
My posts are for entertainment purposes only.
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
Certainly a parent not "cooperating" financially can limit higher education options in many cases, but that wasn't necessarily what I was referring to. Being so involved in choosing the schools (as opposed to just telling them how much you can help financially), majors, extracurricular activities, monitoring their grades/progress...I've said it many times on this board: IMO there was some benefit in not having a parent who could offer anything financially (for school or any other major things as a young adult that had a financial component) or from an experience standpoint (single mom who did not graduate high school). I knew my options were limited only by me and I had nobody to answer to but myself.AnEngineer wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:58 pmOne thing that makes college different is that in many circumstances if the parents don't cooperate financially then the kid cannot go to college until age 24.stoptothink wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:27 amThis is the first thing that crosses my mind with almost all of the college threads on this board (and some others - job related, weddings, car buying). I'm kind of shocked about how involved some on here are in the decisions made in the lives of their adult children. To be fair, I see the same thing with my step-father and my step-sisters (28 and 18yrs old). Certainly not my place to tell anybody how to parent, but I grew up much differently and have chosen to parent my own kids differently.Valuethinker wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:57 pmA lot of parents just don't understand that.Nebraska_Drought wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:30 pmThe only time I have asked my college aged son about grades is when I need to send something to the Car Insurance guy to document the discount received for good grades. I ask him to send me a copy of his most recent report card and that is that. With that being said, he has been on the Dean's list every semester (which is public knowledge) and has landed 3 summers of great internships. Engineering student going into his 3rd year and I "think" he has about a 3.85 GPA, but that is close.
Time to cut the baby birds loose to find their way !
A successful parent is one who helps a child to become a self supporting & independent adult. Even if that pains the parent in many ways & is very difficult to do, at times.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
Quit your nonsense and cite an actual source.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:10 amIn summary, you don't know the policy specifics to Vtech engineering college.Normchad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:13 pmYour quote from VT says that a student with a 2.0 is in good standing. A student who gets a “C” in every single engineering course would be in good standing and graduate.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:03 pmMy son graduated from VTech. Please show me how a person can be a Vtech engineering graduate with an CGPA of 2.0 .
This is for VTech general degree. Engineering college has tougher requirement.
https://www.undergradcatalog.registrar. ... icies.html
"Academic Warning: Students earning less than a 2.00 term GPA, but with a cumulative grade point average of 2.00 or higher, will be placed on academic warning without notation on the academic transcript. Students on academic warning will be required to consult with the appropriate undergraduate assistant or associate dean of their college and to sign an academic contract. Failure to complete an action plan (academic contract) may result in prohibition from future enrollment(s).
Academic probation is imposed when a student's cumulative GPA is less than 2.00; academic probation is lifted when their cumulative GPA is at least 2.00. Academic performance will be reviewed at the end of each regular semester (fall and spring).
A student on probation:
may take no more than 16 credits per semester;
may be required (at the discretion of individual colleges) to consult with an academic advisor regularly and to sign an academic contract acknowledging their performance is not meeting university standards and stating what actions they are committed to taking to improve academic performance."
KlangFool
“Degrees with Cs” is a thing for a reason. A “C” is a passing grade in every undergrad course that I’ve ever heard of.
KlangFool
I hire VT engineering grads all the time. They have C grades in their transcripts.
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
KlangFool is not talking about individual Cs here and there, but the overall GPA.Normchad wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:32 amQuit your nonsense and cite an actual source.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:10 amIn summary, you don't know the policy specifics to Vtech engineering college.Normchad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:13 pmYour quote from VT says that a student with a 2.0 is in good standing. A student who gets a “C” in every single engineering course would be in good standing and graduate.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:03 pmMy son graduated from VTech. Please show me how a person can be a Vtech engineering graduate with an CGPA of 2.0 .
This is for VTech general degree. Engineering college has tougher requirement.
https://www.undergradcatalog.registrar. ... icies.html
"Academic Warning: Students earning less than a 2.00 term GPA, but with a cumulative grade point average of 2.00 or higher, will be placed on academic warning without notation on the academic transcript. Students on academic warning will be required to consult with the appropriate undergraduate assistant or associate dean of their college and to sign an academic contract. Failure to complete an action plan (academic contract) may result in prohibition from future enrollment(s).
Academic probation is imposed when a student's cumulative GPA is less than 2.00; academic probation is lifted when their cumulative GPA is at least 2.00. Academic performance will be reviewed at the end of each regular semester (fall and spring).
A student on probation:
may take no more than 16 credits per semester;
may be required (at the discretion of individual colleges) to consult with an academic advisor regularly and to sign an academic contract acknowledging their performance is not meeting university standards and stating what actions they are committed to taking to improve academic performance."
KlangFool
“Degrees with Cs” is a thing for a reason. A “C” is a passing grade in every undergrad course that I’ve ever heard of.
KlangFool
I hire VT engineering grads all the time. They have C grades in their transcripts.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
He’s just wrong.AnEngineer wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:43 amKlangFool is not talking about individual Cs here and there, but the overall GPA.Normchad wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:32 amQuit your nonsense and cite an actual source.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:10 amIn summary, you don't know the policy specifics to Vtech engineering college.Normchad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:13 pmYour quote from VT says that a student with a 2.0 is in good standing. A student who gets a “C” in every single engineering course would be in good standing and graduate.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:03 pm
My son graduated from VTech. Please show me how a person can be a Vtech engineering graduate with an CGPA of 2.0 .
This is for VTech general degree. Engineering college has tougher requirement.
https://www.undergradcatalog.registrar. ... icies.html
"Academic Warning: Students earning less than a 2.00 term GPA, but with a cumulative grade point average of 2.00 or higher, will be placed on academic warning without notation on the academic transcript. Students on academic warning will be required to consult with the appropriate undergraduate assistant or associate dean of their college and to sign an academic contract. Failure to complete an action plan (academic contract) may result in prohibition from future enrollment(s).
Academic probation is imposed when a student's cumulative GPA is less than 2.00; academic probation is lifted when their cumulative GPA is at least 2.00. Academic performance will be reviewed at the end of each regular semester (fall and spring).
A student on probation:
may take no more than 16 credits per semester;
may be required (at the discretion of individual colleges) to consult with an academic advisor regularly and to sign an academic contract acknowledging their performance is not meeting university standards and stating what actions they are committed to taking to improve academic performance."
KlangFool
“Degrees with Cs” is a thing for a reason. A “C” is a passing grade in every undergrad course that I’ve ever heard of.
KlangFool
I hire VT engineering grads all the time. They have C grades in their transcripts.
VT policies 91 and 167 apply here. At least for ME and ECE.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
Out of curosity I looked and the graduation requirments at VT are here.
https://www.registrar.vt.edu/graduation ... heets.html
They vary by degree and the year you enter the program but for an Electrical Engineering BS for a student that started the degree in 2022 the details are in this PDF
https://www.registrar.vt.edu/content/da ... _ee_22.pdf
The part about GPA is at the bottom of page 2
https://www.registrar.vt.edu/graduation ... heets.html
They vary by degree and the year you enter the program but for an Electrical Engineering BS for a student that started the degree in 2022 the details are in this PDF
https://www.registrar.vt.edu/content/da ... _ee_22.pdf
The part about GPA is at the bottom of page 2
There is also details about the core EE classes that the student must have gotten at least a "C" in.Graduation Requirements: Each student must complete at least 132 semester credit hours with a minimum overall GPA of 2.00 and a minimum in-major GPA of 2.00. In determining the Electrical Engineering in-major GPA, all ECE courses, including repeats, are used.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
At Georgia Tech for many colleges you had to have a C or higher to get credit for a class within your major, but a D was fine for classes outside your major so long as you maintained a 2.0 overall GPA. I think that’s pretty common for most engineering programs. “C’s get degrees” was commonly heard around campus.
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
Why would you aim for mediocrity, though?
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
Questions to OPatlanta_dad wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:11 pm My daughter is joining for an Engineering undergrad (undecided major) at Virginia Tech this fall. I haven't gone to college in US, I was wondering what is considered a good GPA that she should aim to pass out for better job prospects. Thanks in advance!
Edited: Also, do parents track their children's grades (or left it to them as they are college going and they should be responsible) in their undergrad when they are away / out of state college? Do colleges send grades home in mail as the high-schools do? I hope my daughter will be serious and responsible but I am having hard time imagining the next 4 years. I need to order an amazon book and get ready by the time she leaves
1 Why aim for any goal less than a +4.0 GPA?
****Regardless of result....always try you best...right?
2. Why not strive for excellence?
(as a matter of personal growth and self discipline)
(grow the person vs the spreadsheet or flight plan)
3. Doesn’t a good relationship include transparency, responsibility, and accountability, especially if one is paying expenses etc etc?
There maybe more involved here than the questions you seem to ask.
There is always apprehension about tommorow and the distant unknown and unpredictable future.
What small steps can be taken today?
Actionably:
Suggested softcover books on Amazon to read, one each for both of you.
“Life Code” by Dr Phil McGraw
“Life Strategy” byDr Phil McGraw
“As A Man Thinketh”
To Op
I hope this is helpful.
j
Last edited by Sandtrap on Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:00 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
This may be a surprise, but for some of us, working our asses off and putting in 100% is EXACTLY what it took to earn those Cs.
I earned every C I got in my chemical engineering classes and am proud of them because it represented my best effort. I earned my degree with no help from anyone. My Big Ten alma mater agreed when they handed me my diploma.
You could not take any Ds in some classes, but Cs? Please…
My “mediocre” ChemE degree has served me well in my nearly thirty year career.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
Are you suggesting parents shouldn't pay for any of their children's schooling, since it fosters "dependence"?Northern Flicker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:25 pmThe fostering of dependence may lead to paying for alot more than just school.HomerJ wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:16 pm??Northern Flicker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:16 pmThat may lead to paying for a long time.HomerJ wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:33 pmIf I'm paying, I see the grades.dekecarver wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:56 pm If you are paying for your kid's college tuition plus other expenses, you really don't need to look at their grades, just look at the monthly credit card statements and ATM withdrawals. And if they show up on your doorstep at the end of the semester or mid-semester, just let them in knowing that you raised them with a good foundation to fall back on until they are ready to try it again, or not.
If the grades are bad, that probably leads me to paying a lot less.
If not, I don't understand your point.
This isn't just my wallet. It's an organizer, a memory and an old friend.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
So it's more like striving for "the best you can do" rather than a specific GPA, or "mediocrity".investingdad wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:47 amThis may be a surprise, but for some of us, working our asses off and putting in 100% is EXACTLY what it took to earn those Cs.
I earned every C I got in my chemical engineering classes and am proud of them because it represented my best effort. I earned my degree with no help from anyone. My Big Ten alma mater agreed when they handed me my diploma.
You could not take any Ds in some classes, but Cs? Please…
My “mediocre” ChemE degree has served me well in my nearly thirty year career.
This isn't just my wallet. It's an organizer, a memory and an old friend.
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
I'm certainly not knocking someone who gave their all, earned C's, got a degree, and had a successful engineering career. But the thread title and the original post is about what to aim for. If you aim high and fall short of that target, then OK, but if anyone is suggesting that because they got C's and came out fine that's an appropriate target? Not sure I could get on board with that.investingdad wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:47 amThis may be a surprise, but for some of us, working our asses off and putting in 100% is EXACTLY what it took to earn those Cs.
I earned every C I got in my chemical engineering classes and am proud of them because it represented my best effort. I earned my degree with no help from anyone. My Big Ten alma mater agreed when they handed me my diploma.
You could not take any Ds in some classes, but Cs? Please…
My “mediocre” ChemE degree has served me well in my nearly thirty year career.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
But, they are not all Cs. Aka, CGPA of 2.0. That is what poster, "MiamiVice", claiming.Normchad wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:32 amQuit your nonsense and cite an actual source.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:10 amIn summary, you don't know the policy specifics to Vtech engineering college.Normchad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:13 pmYour quote from VT says that a student with a 2.0 is in good standing. A student who gets a “C” in every single engineering course would be in good standing and graduate.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:03 pmMy son graduated from VTech. Please show me how a person can be a Vtech engineering graduate with an CGPA of 2.0 .
This is for VTech general degree. Engineering college has tougher requirement.
https://www.undergradcatalog.registrar. ... icies.html
"Academic Warning: Students earning less than a 2.00 term GPA, but with a cumulative grade point average of 2.00 or higher, will be placed on academic warning without notation on the academic transcript. Students on academic warning will be required to consult with the appropriate undergraduate assistant or associate dean of their college and to sign an academic contract. Failure to complete an action plan (academic contract) may result in prohibition from future enrollment(s).
Academic probation is imposed when a student's cumulative GPA is less than 2.00; academic probation is lifted when their cumulative GPA is at least 2.00. Academic performance will be reviewed at the end of each regular semester (fall and spring).
A student on probation:
may take no more than 16 credits per semester;
may be required (at the discretion of individual colleges) to consult with an academic advisor regularly and to sign an academic contract acknowledging their performance is not meeting university standards and stating what actions they are committed to taking to improve academic performance."
KlangFool
“Degrees with Cs” is a thing for a reason. A “C” is a passing grade in every undergrad course that I’ve ever heard of.
KlangFool
I hire VT engineering grads all the time. They have C grades in their transcripts.
KlangFool
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
You made this claim.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:46 amBut, they are not all Cs. Aka, CGPA of 2.0. That is what poster, "MiamiVice", claiming.Normchad wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:32 amQuit your nonsense and cite an actual source.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:10 amIn summary, you don't know the policy specifics to Vtech engineering college.Normchad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:13 pmYour quote from VT says that a student with a 2.0 is in good standing. A student who gets a “C” in every single engineering course would be in good standing and graduate.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:03 pm
My son graduated from VTech. Please show me how a person can be a Vtech engineering graduate with an CGPA of 2.0 .
This is for VTech general degree. Engineering college has tougher requirement.
https://www.undergradcatalog.registrar. ... icies.html
"Academic Warning: Students earning less than a 2.00 term GPA, but with a cumulative grade point average of 2.00 or higher, will be placed on academic warning without notation on the academic transcript. Students on academic warning will be required to consult with the appropriate undergraduate assistant or associate dean of their college and to sign an academic contract. Failure to complete an action plan (academic contract) may result in prohibition from future enrollment(s).
Academic probation is imposed when a student's cumulative GPA is less than 2.00; academic probation is lifted when their cumulative GPA is at least 2.00. Academic performance will be reviewed at the end of each regular semester (fall and spring).
A student on probation:
may take no more than 16 credits per semester;
may be required (at the discretion of individual colleges) to consult with an academic advisor regularly and to sign an academic contract acknowledging their performance is not meeting university standards and stating what actions they are committed to taking to improve academic performance."
KlangFool
“Degrees with Cs” is a thing for a reason. A “C” is a passing grade in every undergrad course that I’ve ever heard of.
KlangFool
I hire VT engineering grads all the time. They have C grades in their transcripts.
KlangFool
Do you have anything at all to support it?You cannot graduate with an engineering degree from VTech with Cs. You would be kicked out of the engineering college.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
Watty,Watty wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:24 am Out of curosity I looked and the graduation requirments at VT are here.
https://www.registrar.vt.edu/graduation ... heets.html
They vary by degree and the year you enter the program but for an Electrical Engineering BS for a student that started the degree in 2022 the details are in this PDF
https://www.registrar.vt.edu/content/da ... _ee_22.pdf
The part about GPA is at the bottom of page 2
There is also details about the core EE classes that the student must have gotten at least a "C" in.Graduation Requirements: Each student must complete at least 132 semester credit hours with a minimum overall GPA of 2.00 and a minimum in-major GPA of 2.00. In determining the Electrical Engineering in-major GPA, all ECE courses, including repeats, are used.
Someone has to major in ECE and/or ME first before they can graduate with that degree. Until junior year, everyone in Vtech engineering is undecided as per the specific engineering major. Folks with CGPA of 3.0 and above are guaranteed to get their first choice of their engineering major. Folks with CGPA below that may not get their first choice. They have to settle for their second and third choices depending on availability after the CGPA 3.0 folks chooses.
The most in demand major as per engineering in VTech Engineering is Mechanical Engineering. I do not remember how ECE was ranked. Probably the second or third most popular. This was all explained to the parents during the freshman's orientation for the parents.
KlangFool
https://commencement.vt.edu/undergrad-spring-2022.html
Correction: As of Spring 2022 graduation class, Computer science (441/1674) is the number one choice. Mechanical Engineering (304/1674) is number 2. So, you would most likely need CGPA of 3.0 to get into this major for your junior year.
Last edited by KlangFool on Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:30 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
I was responding to poster, "miamivice", claim as follows.Normchad wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:51 amYou made this claim.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:46 amBut, they are not all Cs. Aka, CGPA of 2.0. That is what poster, "MiamiVice", claiming.Normchad wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:32 amQuit your nonsense and cite an actual source.KlangFool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:10 amIn summary, you don't know the policy specifics to Vtech engineering college.Normchad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:13 pm
Your quote from VT says that a student with a 2.0 is in good standing. A student who gets a “C” in every single engineering course would be in good standing and graduate.
“Degrees with Cs” is a thing for a reason. A “C” is a passing grade in every undergrad course that I’ve ever heard of.
KlangFool
I hire VT engineering grads all the time. They have C grades in their transcripts.
KlangFool
Do you have anything at all to support it?You cannot graduate with an engineering degree from VTech with Cs. You would be kicked out of the engineering college.
"C's get degrees."
My interpretation = CGPA 2.0. Do you know any VTech Engineering graduates with CGPA of 2.0?
KlangFool
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
Because a GPA is a poor measurement. As long as you're hitting the minimum GPA to get through HR filters, who cares?
I think I had a GPA in the low 3's and I'm quite likely the highest-earning individual from my graduating class today. I've also worked with several people from top schools (Stanford and peers) who bragged about their GPA. They were wholly unsuited to getting things done in the real world and generally got flushed out within a year.
Academic achievement is, at best, a measurement for how well you can do your classwork. It's relation to your ability to perform outside college is tenuous at best. Again, as long as you're hitting the minimum GPA to get past automated HR filters, anything above that is a waste of effort.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
HawkeyePierce,HawkeyePierce wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:09 amBecause a GPA is a poor measurement. As long as you're hitting the minimum GPA to get through HR filters, who cares?
I think I had a GPA in the low 3's and I'm quite likely the highest-earning individual from my graduating class today. I've also worked with several people from top schools (Stanford and peers) who bragged about their GPA. They were wholly unsuited to getting things done in the real world and generally got flushed out within a year.
Academic achievement is, at best, a measurement for how well you can do your classwork. It's relation to your ability to perform outside college is tenuous at best. Again, as long as you're hitting the minimum GPA to get past automated HR filters, anything above that is a waste of effort.
If someone can only talk about their CGPA and nothing else, the person pretty much had done nothing else besides their normal course work. That is not the kind of people that I want to hire. I am looking for folks that go above and beyond the normal course work.
To each its own. Someone else may think differently.
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
I would say that doing less than your capability is a waste of potential. I can't really understand not giving academics your maximum reasonable effort. You're trying to make associations based on a few people you've run into while also referencing your own career success. Don't you think it's equally likely that there are lots of people with average grades who are just that -- average. Maybe YOU'RE the exception. I fully admit that once you begin a career, no one cares about your grades ever again, but until you do, it's one of the best screening and marketing tools you have. It affects who will interview you, what your starting offer is, and most importantly what color of stole you get to pay to wear at graduation. I also don't see much quantifiable difference in effort to make A's, B's, or C's, unless the C's involve just not doing certain assignments at all.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
Cheez-It Guy,Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:48 am I would say that doing less than your capability is a waste of potential. I can't really understand not giving academics your maximum reasonable effort. You're trying to make associations based on a few people you've run into while also referencing your own career success. Don't you think it's equally likely that there are lots of people with average grades who are just that -- average. Maybe YOU'RE the exception. I fully admit that once you begin a career, no one cares about your grades ever again, but until you do, it's one of the best screening and marketing tools you have. It affects who will interview you, what your starting offer is, and most importantly what color of stole you get to pay to wear at graduation. I also don't see much quantifiable difference in effort to make A's, B's, or C's, unless the C's involve just not doing certain assignments at all.
1) Average folks does not graduate with an engineering degree from VTech.
2) Average engineering students take 5 years to graduate from VTech.
3) The graduation rate for an engineering major from VTech is about 67%. The bottom 33% did not make it.
4) It takes more than reasonable effort just to graduate with an engineering degree. It is just not that easy. So, please do not assume folks with less than CGPA 3.0 are not putting in their maximum effort.
" I also don't see much quantifiable difference in effort to make A's, B's, or C's, unless the C's involve just not doing certain assignments at all."
5) Maybe that is true for you. But, it may not apply to others. We are all wired differently. It does not necessary make someone else a lesser engineer.
KlangFool
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
OK, I resign this argument.
I do have an engineering degree (achieved in 4 years without summer classes) plus a minor from a large and accredited school, so it's not just empty statements from me (for perspective).
The question was where to aim. I said to aim for the top. I stand by that and see no reason why you wouldn't. If you get B's and C's while aiming for A's, good job. If you AIM for less, why?
I hope the engineers who build the infrastructure I rely on aim to do a little more than keep the structure standing when they wrap the job and walk away.
I do have an engineering degree (achieved in 4 years without summer classes) plus a minor from a large and accredited school, so it's not just empty statements from me (for perspective).
The question was where to aim. I said to aim for the top. I stand by that and see no reason why you wouldn't. If you get B's and C's while aiming for A's, good job. If you AIM for less, why?
I hope the engineers who build the infrastructure I rely on aim to do a little more than keep the structure standing when they wrap the job and walk away.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
Lots of great points in your post. But I am curious to what you think are tough courses.Valuethinker wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:00 am Coursework in 4th year used to be fun because by that time, grades were irrelevant (prospective employers were using 3rd year grades). Time to take "fun" courses (Operating Systems; Databases; Compilers) with a heavy workload (and also arts electives).
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
Such a profound post! Especially the bolded and red parts. Saved it as I'm sure I will need this reminder many times.Valuethinker wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:15 amI am not sure if anyone has congratulated your daughter on this thread but someone should have.atlanta_dad wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:11 pm My daughter is joining for an Engineering undergrad (undecided major) at Virginia Tech this fall. I haven't gone to college in US, I was wondering what is considered a good GPA that she should aim to pass out for better job prospects. Thanks in advance!
Edited: Also, do parents track their children's grades (or left it to them as they are college going and they should be responsible) in their undergrad when they are away / out of state college? Do colleges send grades home in mail as the high-schools do? I hope my daughter will be serious and responsible but I am having hard time imagining the next 4 years. I need to order an amazon book and get ready by the time she leaves
VA Tech is a very respectable school in engineering circles, I gather (I live in England but was partly educated in North America). You should feel proud as a parent.
It's time for the bird to leave the nest. The Lebanese-American poet Kalil Gibran wrote about this in his most famous work "The Prophet"
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/58585/5 ... htm#link21And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, Speak to us of Children.
And he said:
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you. For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the Archer’s hand be for gladness;
For even as he loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.
(Italics mine)
Your daughter will come back to you - she may even live with you again. But she has gone into that house of tomorrow, and you can never go further than the threshold.
They are her grades. Her struggles. Her truth.
You must be there when she needs you. But you must stand back and let the little bird fledge into the person she is becoming.
There will be a day when she will stand by your graveside and wish you could speak. But your voice will be silenced. This is the beginning of the preparation for that day.
(My father was a civil engineer. He died very suddenly, in an accident. There isn't a day when I don't wish I could have his voice, his advice (annoying although he could be). But the best thing he ever did was to stand back and let me make my own choices and decisions).
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
As others have mentioned it's also important for you to not micro-manage (but also be there as a trusted advisor) and let her "grow".atlanta_dad wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:11 pm My daughter is joining for an Engineering undergrad (undecided major) at Virginia Tech this fall. I haven't gone to college in US, I was wondering what is considered a good GPA that she should aim to pass out for better job prospects. Thanks in advance!
Congratulations! There isn't one necessarily written in stone but I'd say a 3.5 would make her eligible to clear an initial HR / automation filters. Having said that I'd suggest using an analogy similar to picking a route to a destination (career goal) while coaching her.
- 3.5+ -> toll way (reimbursed of course!) which will take you to that destination quickest and ahead of most.
- 3.0-3.5 -> Interstate. Standard fare (if you will) where you'll still need a couple clever moves to lane switch and get to the destination ASAP
- Under 3.0 -> Local roads. Longer, slower routes journeying along with less motivated folks all the while watching other zoom by on the interstate and toll ways.
Internships are a must. No excuses. At least 2 required if not from a top tier company in their potential line of work.
Edited: Also, do parents track their children's grades (or left it to them as they are college going and they should be responsible) in their undergrad when they are away / out of state college? Do colleges send grades home in mail as the high-schools do? I hope my daughter will be serious and responsible but I am having hard time imagining the next 4 years. I need to order an amazon book and get ready by the time she leaves
No. Parents don't get notified of grades automatically. IMHO if I'm paying for it then I need to know. Last thing I want is for my kid to show up at my door step having gotten kicked out of college and I'm outta $100K.
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
The profound part will be how you take this on board.srt7 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:12 pmSuch a profound post! Especially the bolded and red parts. Saved it as I'm sure I will need this reminder many times.Valuethinker wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:15 amI am not sure if anyone has congratulated your daughter on this thread but someone should have.atlanta_dad wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:11 pm My daughter is joining for an Engineering undergrad (undecided major) at Virginia Tech this fall. I haven't gone to college in US, I was wondering what is considered a good GPA that she should aim to pass out for better job prospects. Thanks in advance!
Edited: Also, do parents track their children's grades (or left it to them as they are college going and they should be responsible) in their undergrad when they are away / out of state college? Do colleges send grades home in mail as the high-schools do? I hope my daughter will be serious and responsible but I am having hard time imagining the next 4 years. I need to order an amazon book and get ready by the time she leaves
VA Tech is a very respectable school in engineering circles, I gather (I live in England but was partly educated in North America). You should feel proud as a parent.
It's time for the bird to leave the nest. The Lebanese-American poet Kalil Gibran wrote about this in his most famous work "The Prophet"
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/58585/5 ... htm#link21And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, Speak to us of Children.
And he said:
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you. For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the Archer’s hand be for gladness;
For even as he loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.
(Italics mine)
Your daughter will come back to you - she may even live with you again. But she has gone into that house of tomorrow, and you can never go further than the threshold.
They are her grades. Her struggles. Her truth.
You must be there when she needs you. But you must stand back and let the little bird fledge into the person she is becoming.
There will be a day when she will stand by your graveside and wish you could speak. But your voice will be silenced. This is the beginning of the preparation for that day.
(My father was a civil engineer. He died very suddenly, in an accident. There isn't a day when I don't wish I could have his voice, his advice (annoying although he could be). But the best thing he ever did was to stand back and let me make my own choices and decisions).
You might consider a contract with your daughter. Explain your concerns that sometimes kids find first university overwhelming, the wrong course, etc. How you wish to be as much assistance as you can - poor grades in university are not (usually?) a sign of indiscipline, but of being in the wrong course/ notorious "weeder" courses used to discourage the less capable from proceeding/ other problems in personal life.
And so a contract as to how you will discuss her grades-- how you will be informed and what you will be entitled to say or do. The knowledge that you will always be there and that you will not judge her for her steps and missteps into the adult world.
The children of first-generation immigrants live a weird kind of dual existence, especially daughters. At school and in the world they are American kids. At home they are often dutiful daughters/ sons. The duality can be stressful - but it can also be very powerful.
A niece/ nephew has graduated with an engineering degree from a well-respected North American university. They took a very hard course - combining mathematics & engineering. There is no doubt their grades suffered for it (I believe around 3.1). On the other hand engineering schools do not necessarily inflate marks the way liberal arts do.
The then secured a 2 year research assistant appointment, which includes being recognised in published papers. Their lower grades make grad school more difficult -- they won't get into the top schools (in an arts & sciences field, not engineering). Thank goodness they are not trying for medicine!
But on the other hand, anyone who reads their application will instantly spot how the engineering training has prepared them mathematically for advanced work and they already have the makings of research interests & agendas - which is far more important to actually getting through the PhD than are being able to do well on exams. A lot of people arrive at grad school thinking that because they are good at exams, they are cut out to be researchers and academics in their fields. The PhD Comps process can reinforce that.
But actually, what you need is an ability to identify a topic which can be addressed with the bitesize of an academic paper (many disciplines Phds are now 3-4 separate chapters on a related field, each then publishable as a paper). And a creativity and single-mindedness to drive that through for 3-4 lonely years.
Last edited by Valuethinker on Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
I knew after my first semester in college I wasn't going to graduate with a 4.0. It would have been much easier to stay positive had I been prepared for that before I started.
Which is not to say that it was unreasonable to want a 4.0 when I started, since I had achieved that in high school. It's just that I had it locked in too firmly as a goal so that when the reality that engineering school is a lot harder than high school set in, I wasn't prepared to adjust my expectations for myself.
I agree with try your best, but would caution incoming students to be careful about setting rigid expectations for themselves.
So perhaps how I would put it is set that goal if you demonstrated you could achieve that or very close to it in high school, but recognize that engineering school is harder for most students than high school, so it is not a failure to not achieve a 4.0.
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Re: Undergrad Engineering GPA to aim for
+1iamlucky13 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:18 pmI knew after my first semester in college I wasn't going to graduate with a 4.0. It would have been much easier to stay positive had I been prepared for that before I started.
Which is not to say that it was unreasonable to want a 4.0 when I started, since I had achieved that in high school. It's just that I had it locked in too firmly as a goal so that when the reality that engineering school is a lot harder than high school set in, I wasn't prepared to adjust my expectations for myself.
I agree with try your best, but would caution incoming students to be careful about setting rigid expectations for themselves.
So perhaps how I would put it is set that goal if you demonstrated you could achieve that or very close to it in high school, but recognize that engineering school is harder for most students than high school, so it is not a failure to not achieve a 4.0.
good points
well said
mahalo for sharing your experiences.
J