Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

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Bogle Center
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Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Bogle Center »

We are seeking a professional video company to record all sessions at the Bogleheads Conference during October 12-14. Before going out and paying a company, we thought there may be some among us who are professional videographers and would do this job pro bono in exchange for a couple of free tickets to the event.

Please send a private message to the Bogle Center.
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Bogle Center
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Bogle Center »

Everyone would appreciate your contribution if you have this skill and would help out the Bogleheads community. :D

Please send a private message to the Bogle Center.
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ram
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by ram »

Perhaps the Bogle Center should also pay for the air ticket and hotel stay. At least compare costs including these with the costs of company being considered for the contract.
(I am not a videographer)
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Bogle Center »

ram wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 12:20 pm Perhaps the Bogle Center should also pay for the air ticket and hotel stay. At least compare costs including these with the costs of a company being considered for the contract.
(I am not a videographer)
We're seeking volunteers.

Since we do not sell sponsorships to commercial companies, the conference runs on volunteers who believe in the cause and want to help out. For the record, all Bogle Center Board members pay their own way to the conference.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by simplextableau »

The Bogle Center shouldn't expect professionals to work for free. I don't ask that of my doctors or lawyers.
Morik
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Morik »

simplextableau wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:08 pm The Bogle Center shouldn't expect professionals to work for free. I don't ask that of my doctors or lawyers.
I don't think it's unethical to call for volunteers in this situation. If no one wants to volunteer they will hire (and pay) a professional crew. At least, that is my impression from the original post.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chris319 »

I have several decades of television production and engineering experience. I am located in the Los Angeles area and have done events similar to this in the past.

Apparently this event is in the greater Chicago area. I would consider becoming involved if the event were local to me. Otherwise, in addition to providing professional services I would have to bear the expenses of travel, lodgings, meals and any equipment rental that may be required.

I can provide pro bono consulting without traveling. Diligent planning is the key to success for these kinds of things.

Right off the bat I can say emphatically that the audio record of such an event is far more important and deserves more emphasis than the video portion (i.e. camera angles, lighting, etc.). The spoken word is where the salient information will be. Merely setting up a camera and pointing an on-board camera mic at the participants won't give satisfactory results, nor will relying on a hotel's sound system. The audio feed will have to serve both the recording and whatever public address system will be in use.

Whoever undertakes this will need to know well in advance how many events there will be and where and when they will take place. That person will also need to know how many participants there will be in each event, i.e. one-on-one interview, solo speaker or panel discussion. Generally speaking, each participant/talker should be individually miked, preferably with a lapel (clip-on) mic. This will require an engineer to "mix" the audio.

One option to consider is to hire a local audio contractor who can provide equipment, a local engineer to set up the equipment, strike it and mix the event, and who won't have to travel and stay in a hotel.

After you have the audio taken care of, then worry about the video.

Alternatively you can cheap out and the finished product will look and sound like a bad home video of junior's birthday party. You get what you pay for.

https://www.yelp.com/search?cflt=audiov ... cago%2C+IL
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chris319 »

Here are two contractors I found in the Chicagoland area. It looks like either one can provide both audio and video recording. There may be others that I'm not familiar with.

https://www.audiblesound.com/about-us

https://www.weddingwire.com/biz/stellar ... 84416.html

https://rentcom.com/

If the event planners will provide me with a detailed program of events, I can prepare a spec sheet for equipment rentals to give to a contractor.
Last edited by chris319 on Wed May 25, 2022 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chris319 »

Bogle Center wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:44 am We're seeking volunteers.

Since we do not sell sponsorships to commercial companies, the conference runs on volunteers who believe in the cause and want to help out. For the record, all Bogle Center Board members pay their own way to the conference.
Understood, but there is this:
There are two charges: a three-day conference for $395 per person (through May), and the Bogleheads Banquet on Thursday evening, $100 per person. If you attend both, the total cost will be $495.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by er999 »

I agree with the importance of good audio. I tried to watch one of the older boglehead conference recording posted and the audio was so bad it was unwatchable. I’m going to the conference in person but perhaps you could offer an option of paid recordings for $100-$200 each and if you could sell 100-200 extra tickets for the recordings that could pay for the camera crew. You could have the recordings open to the public after 1-2 years if you want to have the info available but there might be enough people who can’t travel there but still are interested enough to pay to watch the content closer to when it is produced.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chris319 »

I have viewed several conference videos from years past. In some videos the audio is good and in others the audio is quite poor. So yes, audio quality makes all the difference in terms of intelligibility and listenability. Whatever money is spent on audio is a worthwhile investment.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by sschullo »

Morik wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:17 pm
simplextableau wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:08 pm The Bogle Center shouldn't expect professionals to work for free. I don't ask that of my doctors or lawyers.
I don't think it's unethical to call for volunteers in this situation. If no one wants to volunteer they will hire (and pay) a professional crew. At least, that is my impression from the original post.
There are doctors and lawyers who work pro bono.
I heard a podcast of an organization attempting to recruit financial advisors to work pro bono. They only got 12 people nationwide. Not sure if it has grown.

As already pointed out, not only does the Bogle Center entire board volunteer, but the great folks who devote their time, expertise, and sweat running this board for years also volunteer.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chris319 »

sschullo wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:03 pm
Morik wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:17 pm
simplextableau wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:08 pm The Bogle Center shouldn't expect professionals to work for free. I don't ask that of my doctors or lawyers.
I don't think it's unethical to call for volunteers in this situation. If no one wants to volunteer they will hire (and pay) a professional crew. At least, that is my impression from the original post.
There are doctors and lawyers who work pro bono.
I heard a podcast of an organization attempting to recruit financial advisors to work pro bono. They only got 12 people nationwide. Not sure if it has grown.

As already pointed out, not only does the Bogle Center entire board volunteer, but the great folks who devote their time, expertise, and sweat running this board for years also volunteer.
Disregarding the question of ethics, consider the following:

Each attendee will have to purchase a ticket, so there is cash coming in.

For starters there will be the fixed cost of renting the venue/ballroom/facility.

A certain amount of equipment will be required: a camera, microphones and other assorted hardware. This equipment may have to be rented, so there is another expense.

This will be a three-day event. To expect an experienced videographer and audio engineer to spend three days working for free and forfeit three days of potential pay when they could be shooting weddings or working for the local TV station, and expect them to furnish their own equipment, is probably an unrealistic expectation.

Alternatively, you could cheap out. A volunteer could bring his camcorder from home and record the event with the microphone built into the camcorder from across the room, and it will sound like a bad home video of junior's birthday party. I've seen people try this in other situations and the results are quite unsatisfactory.

You get what you pay for.

I actually looked into the cost of coming from L.A. to Chicago and when you take into account air fare, lodgings, meals and ground transportation to and from the airport, it would come to well over $1,000.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chris319 »

With apologies to whomever recorded this, here is an example of poorly-recorded audio. It is hollow and reverberant with poor intelligibility.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr10TPsHu3c
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by CascadiaSoonish »

Suggest bumping up the fee $100 per ticket next year and budgeting for A/V pros. The pro-bono ask for this year is for thousands of dollars worth of work for hundreds of dollars worth of ticket value that the recipient couldn't enjoy anyway because they'd be working the gig.

There's a time and a place to be economical, and this is one of the situations where there's unlikely to be a viable no-budget alternative to paying professionals to do the job right.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chris319 »

Having viewed several archived recordings of past conferences, some are well done technically, suggesting that a professional audio/video crew was used. If it is the case that a crew was hired in years past, one wonders what is different about this year that a no-cost solution is being sought.

That said, I'll leave it to others to debate and decide whether to hire a professional crew and how to pay for one.

It would help to have a liaison in Chicago between BH and the AV contractor if one is used. I will not be attending so I can't be that person.

A fair rate for technical labor would be:

$50 per hour x 10 hours per day = $500 per day per crew person

$500 x 3 days = $1,500 x 2 crew (videographer and audio mixer) = $3,000 for technical labor ONLY, NOT INCLUDING equipment rental.

If you're charging $395 per ticket, sales of 8 tickets will cover the cost of technical labor. Equipment rental would be on top of that.

You could negotiate with the AV contractor for a lower rate.
Last edited by chris319 on Fri May 27, 2022 6:01 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Stinky »

chris319 wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 4:54 am Having viewed several archived recordings of past conferences, some are well done technically, suggesting that a professional audio/video crew was used. If it is the case that a crew was hired in years past, one wonders what is different about this year that a no-cost solution is being sought.

That said, I'll leave it to others to debate and decide whether to hire a professional crew and how to pay for one.

It would help to have a liaison in Chicago between BH and the AV contractor if one is used. I will not be attending so I can't be that person.
I appreciate your input and insights on this thread.

I'm learning something as I follow the comments posted here.

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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chris319 »

Is there anyone planning to attend the conference who has videography or audio experience who could volunteer to operate equipment rented by BH? You wouldn't have to provide any equipment; you would operate equipment which is rented for the conference.

Do we have any rock 'n' rollers who mix garage bands in their home recording studio? It's time to put your mixing skills to good use. That would cut down the cost of technical labor greatly.

Do you have a camcorder which will accept an external audio feed with a zoom lens and a good tripod which pans smoothly, and which will record a long conference session? Are you willing to operate your camcorder for this three-day event? That would further reduce costs.

Perhaps TPTB could buy the volunteers sumptuous dinners at a fancy restaurant during the event.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chris319 »

One obvious cost-cutting measure would be to record the audio portion of the event only and not make a video. You would not need a camera and videographer, just like they used to do in the olden days of radio. You could still post it on YouTube with some sort of title or graphic as the visual.

I'll leave it to others to debate this.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by SxSW »

chris319 wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 4:54 am $500 x 3 days = $1,500 x 2 crew (videographer and audio mixer) = $3,000 for technical labor ONLY, NOT INCLUDING equipment rental.
You'd think all these millionaires could afford that!
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chickadee »

Typically you contract with the AV company that serves the hotel for the audio. They provide the projector, lapel or handheld microphones and plug into the house speakers for amplification. There should be a sound person contracted to be in the main room with a sound board, mixing and monitoring the audio and changing out microphone batteries as needed. THEN once you have audio sorted (so that it sounds good inside the room), you can hire a local videographer crew to get a good feed (cable run) from the sound board.

If the AV company contracted by the hotel is too expensive, then you've got two contractors to hire. One local audio specialist and one local videographer group. Makes it a bit more complicated.

$500 a day is low, where I live. We charge $750 per crew per day for video. At least the same for an audio tech.

Also, you are forgetting that you actually need to edit the footage. If you have one camera, great, then the cleanup is fairly easy. But you still have to get it onto a computer, make edits, then encode a final movie for upload to the Youtube, or wherever you are hosting the video. If you want coverage with multiple cameras, that takes time in post production.

Ideally, you would get a feed from the laptop (a program feed) and record that and edit it into the final program, so that the slides are actually legible.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by belowaverage »

Could always connect with a local community college and get students in a Sound Recording or similar major to assist.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Mel Lindauer »

simplextableau wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:08 pm The Bogle Center shouldn't expect professionals to work for free. I don't ask that of my doctors or lawyers.
It really saddens me to read a comment like this.

I would point out that the current and previous Bogle Center Board members were, and are, all professionals, and we all work and worked for free. That's basically how this non-profit works. If you believe in the cause, you donate in any way that you can.

And I would also like to point out that Jack Bogle was an unpaid "volunteer".
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chris319 »

Typically you contract with the AV company that serves the hotel for the audio. They provide the projector, lapel or handheld microphones and plug into the house speakers for amplification.
This assumes that the Oak Brook Hills Resort has such a contractor and that the contractor is adequately equipped to handle an event like this. I'm not saying they don't; it's just an unknown at this point. If a contractor can provide video recording as well, that's a bonus. That's one thing to do right away: find out if Oak Brook Hills Resort has an audio/video contractor they use, and what that contractor's capabilities are. Who on the planning committee is the go-between with the resort?

Based on my viewing of past conferences, the setup for a panel discussion involves the following:
  • A lectern with a microphone. This will serve solo speakers/lecturers as well as a panel discussion.
  • A long conference table with 4 - 6 desk microphones or lapel microphones.
  • A mic mixer with operator. The audio feed is shared between the house public-address system and the video recording.
  • A single video camcorder which would pan and zoom to feature the person speaking, and record the event.
I would strongly recommend against more than one camera. This would involve added complexity, labor and expense, and would require editing/post production.

You're looking at a crew of two: one for audio and one for camera.

The crew will need a couple of hours of setup time before the first event in order to check out systems, troubleshoot and iron out any kinks. They will also need to bring a generous supply of camera and mic batteries.

Extra care MUST be taken to make sure the audio feed is compatible with whatever camcorder is used: line level, mic level, balanced, unbalanced, stereo, mono. Been there, done that. This is a non-trivial consideration.

There is also the matter of whether any of the speakers will have visual aids, graphics or videos that they want to show.

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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chris319 »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 11:56 am
simplextableau wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:08 pm The Bogle Center shouldn't expect professionals to work for free. I don't ask that of my doctors or lawyers.
It really saddens me to read a comment like this.

I would point out that the current and previous Bogle Center Board members were, and are, all professionals, and we all work and worked for free. That's basically how this non-profit works. If you believe in the cause, you donate in any way that you can.

And I would also like to point out that Jack Bogle was an unpaid "volunteer".
Do you seriously expect the Oak Brook Hills Resort, which is part of the Hilton hotel chain, to provide the ballroom and accomodations for event staff for free because they "believe in the cause"?

I hate to burst your bubble but they are going to charge the full rate.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Mel Lindauer »

chris319 wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 3:07 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 11:56 am
simplextableau wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:08 pm The Bogle Center shouldn't expect professionals to work for free. I don't ask that of my doctors or lawyers.
It really saddens me to read a comment like this.

I would point out that the current and previous Bogle Center Board members were, and are, all professionals, and we all work and worked for free. That's basically how this non-profit works. If you believe in the cause, you donate in any way that you can.

And I would also like to point out that Jack Bogle was an unpaid "volunteer".
Do you seriously expect the Oak Brook Hills Resort, which is part of the Hilton hotel chain, to provide the ballroom and accomodations for event staff for free because they "believe in the cause"?

I hate to burst your bubble but they are going to charge the full rate.
Your comment indicates you (and some others) fail to understand the request. The Board is asking for individual Boglehead volunteers, if available. I fail to see what part of that is so hard to understand.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chris319 »

chickadee wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 9:57 am Typically you contract with the AV company that serves the hotel for the audio. They provide the projector, lapel or handheld microphones and plug into the house speakers for amplification. There should be a sound person contracted to be in the main room with a sound board, mixing and monitoring the audio and changing out microphone batteries as needed. THEN once you have audio sorted (so that it sounds good inside the room), you can hire a local videographer crew to get a good feed (cable run) from the sound board.

If the AV company contracted by the hotel is too expensive, then you've got two contractors to hire. One local audio specialist and one local videographer group. Makes it a bit more complicated.
Will you be attending the event?
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chris319 »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 3:27 pm Your comment indicates you (and some others) fail to understand the request. The Board is asking for individual Boglehead volunteers, if available. I fail to see what part of that is so hard to understand.
I fully understand what the board is requesting. You are also asking for volunteers to provide their own equipment free of charge. As I said in a previous post, I think this is an unrealistic expectation and I explained why I think so.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Randolph Mortimer »

What is going on in this thread? The Board is asking for volunteers. Either volunteer or don't. No other comment is necessary.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chris319 »

Randolph Mortimer wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 4:00 pm What is going on in this thread? The Board is asking for volunteers. Either volunteer or don't. No other comment is necessary.
What if no one volunteers?
Last edited by chris319 on Fri May 27, 2022 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Randolph Mortimer »

chris319 wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 4:11 pmWhat if no one volunteers?
That is the Board's business and on them to figure out.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Mel Lindauer »

chris319 wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 3:54 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 3:27 pm Your comment indicates you (and some others) fail to understand the request. The Board is asking for individual Boglehead volunteers, if available. I fail to see what part of that is so hard to understand.
I fully understand what the board is requesting. You are also asking for volunteers to provide their own equipment free of charge. As I said in a previous post, I think this is an unrealistic expectation and I explained why I think so.
FYI, I would like to point out that, IMO, it's not unrealistic at all.

A few examples (besides all of the previous and current Board Members and folks who volunteer), we had volunteer Boglehead lawyers handle all of the incorporation and legal paperwork with the State, create all of the documents (by-laws and other needed documents) and get the organization up and running. All pro-bono.

Other volunteer attorneys helped with all of the legal work necessary to get approval from the IRS as a 501c3 non-profit organization. Still other attorneys helped getting the word "Bogleheads" trademarked. And another attorney defended our trademark against an unscrupulous financial advisor who was using it in an illegal way. Again, pro bono.

There are lots of examples of other professionals who donated their time and talents, including investing professionals and tax accounts. So this request seems right in line with The Bogle Center giving individual Bogleheads who'd like to volunteer the opportunity to help out in any way they can.

And while we'd like to think that the Bogle Center is special, it certainly isn't unique when it comes to many other non-profit organizations being helped by professionals who want to donate their talents to a cause they believe in.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

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I removed an off-topic post. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by whodidntante »

I volunteer Rick Ferri to do it. He's still Boglehead young, right? So he's probably good with VCRs and such. :wink:
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

Randolph Mortimer wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 4:00 pm What is going on in this thread? The Board is asking for volunteers. Either volunteer or don't. No other comment is necessary.
Well said.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Dottie57 »

Morik wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:17 pm
simplextableau wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:08 pm The Bogle Center shouldn't expect professionals to work for free. I don't ask that of my doctors or lawyers.
I don't think it's unethical to call for volunteers in this situation. If no one wants to volunteer they will hire (and pay) a professional crew. At least, that is my impression from the original post.
+1
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by bog007 »

holy smokes. many here have become rich following the boglehead ways just from this website. and for free. it's called giving back. hope you guys find someone. :shock:
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chris319 »

Randolph Mortimer wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 4:13 pm
chris319 wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 4:11 pmWhat if no one volunteers?
That is the Board's business and on them to figure out.
I hope the board finds someone to oversee this undertaking, to coordinate and interface with the resort and with the AV contractor, if any. I won't be that person, given the tone of some recent posts in this thread.

I have the gear, I have the skills and I have the time. If I were local to Chicago and read some of the posts in this thread, I would be put off by the entitled, high-handed and confrontational tone of some of those posts and would have serious reservations about becoming involved, paid or volunteer.

If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.

Good luck. I wish you all success in this project.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by ApeAttack »

I hope someone volunteers. If they do, I want to reiterate the importance of audio quality. It isn't too difficult to achieve nowadays if someone has basic AV skills and the right equipment (which doesn't cost too much), but I've met plenty of people who have very low standards.

Be sure to ask the volunteer for plenty of examples from prior events to gauge whether they meet your expectations.
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rob
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by rob »

ApeAttack wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 11:01 pm ....It isn't too difficult to achieve nowadays if someone has basic AV skills and the right equipment (which doesn't cost too much)....
One of the big issue with the internet is everyone thinks everything is easy.... I'm sure someone has an iPhone.... :oops:

Whoever is selecting volunteers/vendors; please don't underestimate this ask.
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Wannaretireearly
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Wannaretireearly »

bog007 wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:48 pm holy smokes. many here have become rich following the boglehead ways just from this website. and for free. it's called giving back. hope you guys find someone. :shock:
+1. Good luck for the event. The number, and scope of Bogleheads events is growing and very admirable. The fact they are all without sponsorship, or any advertising, is truly remarkable and a testament to volunteers. 🙏. Long May it continue. This site and following is unique in many many ways.
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chris319
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by chris319 »

ApeAttack wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 11:01 pm ....It isn't too difficult to achieve nowadays if someone has basic AV skills and the right equipment (which doesn't cost too much)....
Don't minimize the importance of skill and experience.

I don't know how this was recorded but you don't want something that sounds like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr10TPsHu3c

The audio is unacceptable by any standard. Ironically, at 1:23 we see someone clip a mic to Jack's necktie but the audio from this mic didn't make it into the mix. So we have a recording of the group's namesake, rock star Jack Bogle, and the audio sounds like a word I am not allowed to use on this forum (rhymes with spit).
rob wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 11:12 pm One of the big issue with the internet is everyone thinks everything is easy.... I'm sure someone has an iPhone.... :oops:

Whoever is selecting volunteers/vendors; please don't underestimate this ask.
A well-meaning volunteer shows up with his camcorder from home, parks it on a tripod and thinks he can cover the audio with the camcorder's built-in mic. That's a recipe for disaster and will sound like the above-linked clip. I've seen it happen.

Imagine if you had a panel discussion with 4 to 6 participants.
Last edited by chris319 on Sat May 28, 2022 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Jeepergeo »

simplextableau wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:08 pm The Bogle Center shouldn't expect professionals to work for free. I don't ask that of my doctors or lawyers.
It's called "giving back" and "community service". It is part of what sets true Americans apart from others across the world.
simplextableau
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by simplextableau »

Volunteering is great. But my experience is that when lawyers or doctors volunteer pro bono, everyone recognizes the importance of otherwise expensive and learned skills being provided for free. The size of the "ask" is recognized.

When photographers, videographers, or other more "creative" types are asked to volunteer, it's very often because the people asking don't think it's that big of an ask. In other words, the services in their mind aren't that significant in the first place (i.e. equally worthy of sometimes expensive compensation). Their skills and time are devalued. That's wrong.

That's the vibe I got from the first post because it plays out so so often in society with requests like these. I hope I'm incorrect.
nec
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by nec »

I have a different take on all of this. In addition to the altruistic value of volunteering, you are also potentially setting yourself up for great referrals if you do a good job from people who attend or watch the presentations. Add to that the demographics of the audience here and it seems like a great investment opportunity. You could be known as "the" videographer for Bogleheads. I wish I had this skillset and ran this type of business!
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by galawdawg »

It is easy for one to sit on the sideline to criticize and critique the work product that volunteers at prior conference have produced at no-cost to Bogleheads and refer to it as 'unacceptable". It is quite another thing to generously give one's time, expertise and funds to improve what is offered for those who wish to receive the benefit of the wisdom shared at Bogleheads' conferences free of charge and without the time or expense of attending.

In my respectful opinion, those who express dissatisfaction with the status quo should give generously to support improvement efforts (either their money or their talents) or simply keep their own counsel. As Mark Twain said, "If you have no will to change it, you have no right to criticize it."

Those who wish to offer their services should do so as requested in the original post. Those who wish to give financially can make their tax deductible donations to the John C. Bogle Center for Financial Literacy (Bogle Center), a 501(c)(3) organization, at this link: https://boglecenter.net/donate/

And as one who has benefited greatly over the years from the work of Boglehead volunteers, those both visible and those working quietly behind the scenes, let me say to them...thank you...your work is appreciated!

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Regal 56
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Regal 56 »

As a musician, I’ll offer my own perspective. I’m not trying to be rude or confrontational. Rather, I’m simply looking at this request for volunteer work from the perspective of those being asked to provide it.
simplextableau wrote:When photographers, videographers, or other more "creative" types are asked to volunteer, it's very often because the people asking don't think it's that big of an ask. In other words, the services in their mind aren't that significant in the first place (i.e. equally worthy of sometimes expensive compensation). Their skills and time are devalued. That's wrong.
Agreed. I’m all too familiar with being asked to donate my services. The unspoken attitude behind these requests is often: “All you have to do is show up and play. How hard is that?” Further, videography requires transport and setup of equipment, working the entire event, followed by breakdown and transport of equipment. That’s a lot of physical labor. And that labor is multiplied if there are events at different locations. (Are those who ask for volunteers willing to help carry equipment?)
nec wrote:I have a different take on all of this. In addition to the altruistic value of volunteering, you are also potentially setting yourself up for great referrals if you do a good job from people who attend or watch the presentations. Add to that the demographics of the audience here and it seems like a great investment opportunity. You could be known as "the" videographer for Bogleheads.
You would also be known as the videographer who works for free. If you want to see how quickly you can annoy a videographer, just use the line: “think of the exposure you’ll get!” Those of us who work in the arts are sick to death of hearing this.

For those who’ve pointed out that lawyers have done pro bono work for Bogleheads, I’ll point out that most successful lawyers can well afford to volunteer. With rare exceptions, artists aren’t as well compensated in their work. And I doubt anyone would ask a lawyer to volunteer for moving furniture. As for saying that the volunteers could attend the event for free? I’m sorry, that’s simply a false portrayal. The volunteers won’t be “attending” the event—they’ll be working it.

Anyone is free to ask anyone to donate their services. But those of us who work in the arts are inundated with such requests. So it would be indelicate for those who make such requests to be unaware of this.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by 8foot7 »

I don’t think there is anything wrong inherently in asking for volunteers. If someone feels called to donate their time, the use of their equipment, and their services, then that’s great; a free exchange has occurred. I suspect there are many in this community that, if their circumstances allowed, would happily volunteer to be involved and document this conference. This crowd seems to be a giving bunch, particularly in this area. :sharebeer

I do think the requests in this thread from the powers that be are coming across as somewhat tone-deaf, both in the nature of the reply and also in not demonstrating a full understanding or grasping of what’s required to actually do a good job of this. One gets what one pays for. And frankly, an attorney performing an incorporation is child’s play compared to filming, mixing, editing, and producing a multi-day live event. (I am sure the nonprofit element is more complicated, but the original comparison is apples and oranges. Paralegals and staff complete incorporations online in three minutes.) And professionals who might otherwise actually feel called to graciously involve themselves in this may likely be turned off by the tone of these replies. Something to think about. More flies with honey and all that.

I’ll part with this. As a part-time freelance writer for 22 years now, I am routinely asked to provide short posts for a variety of outlets. Frequently I am told of the benefits of exposure to millions of people. I simply reply, “if I had any more exposure, I’d die from it.”
Flyer24
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Flyer24 »

A disrespectful comment by a member was deleted. The points have been made about volunteer service. Let's move on.

Thread moved to US Chapters.
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Re: Camera crew needed for Bogleheads Conference

Post by Normchad »

I love this website. I think recording this event is a great idea. I won’t be attending though.

If you end up hiring professionals for this, I’ll chip in $250 to help defray the cost please DM when appropriate and we can coordinate payment.
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