UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Post Reply
Topic Author
angelescrest
Posts: 1730
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am
Location: West Coast

UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by angelescrest »

Hi BGs, I am having an unusually difficult time planning a 9 day trip to the UK this June. First time trip for myself and the family to that area. Lots of global travel experience, but I’m having a hard time figuring what to do this go around.

The trip as basically two primary segments—the first half (4 full days) in London which is the most important part for us as London is the primary reason for us going in the first place, and the second part of it (another 4 full days) trying to get the kids to see more of the world which means getting out of the city and into the countryside and other open spaces. The first half is non-negotiable, but it’s the second half that I’m struggling with in terms of what to do. Traveling is clearly personal, but I’d appreciate some input from those of you who have experienced the UK with kids.

Two Major Options:
1. After London, spent the rest of the time visiting SW England. Specifically Oxford, Cotswolds, and the Jurassic Coast (maybe stop by Stonehenge somewhere therein). Is four days enough for this, or is that too ambitious? The four days would need to include travel time to/from London. I don’t know if the Cotswolds is worth it for kids, or if it’s just okay to just drive through during part of a day. Warwick might be something to swap as I hear kids love it. I assume I’d need to rent a car for this, and while I’d be just as happy as can be to drive all over the country in a car, I don’t think the youngest would enjoy that so much.

2. After London, spend the rest of the time visiting Scotland. If we did this, I’m a lot less certain on what a good itinerary would be for kids. Edinburgh looks great, but I don’t know how much more city the kids need after London. The highlands and the remote spaces appeals to me greatly, but it seems like a big area that I need to really be thoughtful in choosing from due to limited time. Skye is appealing. Do I need to rent a car, or hire a tour company?

3. Alternative: Just spend the entire time diving deep into London with the city as the travel base, with one or two day trips to nearby locations, like Oxford and Windsor, possibly Stonehenge (though would still love to see the Jurassic Coast if that’s advisable).

Considerations:
Would like the kids to see the world, get some exposure to the culture and a great visual sense of what the area looks like. The idea of having the kids up close and personal with ancient history appeals to me (that’s why the early human civilization sites in and around Stonehenge appeal to me, as does the fossil records around the Jurassic Coast—not to mention its sheer beauty). Don’t mind moving through some places fairly quickly just to soak it in visually, but want other spots where we can breathe a bit and not feel overly rushed. We are flying in and out of Heathrow.

Would take the train to Scotland if we decide to go, at least on the first leg (maybe fly back to Heathrow on the return), though I’ve wondered about flying into Inverness to see the highlands, and then leave out of Edinburgh. In hindsight I wish I could add one or two days to the trip, but it’s too late for that now. Part of the psychology here is the idea that we won’t return to this region for a long, long time, and Scotland is tempting, though maybe not sensible. I’ve looked at a lot of travel books, blogs, and videos, and at this point it’s all a blur. What I really need to do is dialogue with folks who’ve been there. One child is elementary age, the other early middle school.

I’d appreciate first some thoughts on choosing between the two locations, and second, some detailed itinerary suggestions that take into consideration transportation and travel considerations with kids.
halfnine
Posts: 2421
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:48 pm

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by halfnine »

Personally, I'd rent a car and take my children up to Warwick Castle for a day of fun and entertainment. Then head down to the Glouceseter for the day for Cheese Rolling (apparently June 5th this year). The following day would be off to see the stones in Avesbury with a quick, sunset stop for a photo op of Stonehenge. With another a day I would target somewhere else in Southwest England leaving it up for my children to decide since children certainly get more out of the experience when they have a preference, knowledge or a vested interest in the activity.
SR II
Posts: 474
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:37 pm

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by SR II »

How old are the kids?
Valuethinker
Posts: 49030
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by Valuethinker »

angelescrest wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:47 pm Hi BGs, I am having an unusually difficult time planning a 9 day trip to the UK this June. First time trip for myself and the family to that area. Lots of global travel experience, but I’m having a hard time figuring what to do this go around.

The trip as basically two primary segments—the first half (4 full days) in London which is the most important part for us as London is the primary reason for us going in the first place, and the second part of it (another 4 full days) trying to get the kids to see more of the world which means getting out of the city and into the countryside and other open spaces. The first half is non-negotiable, but it’s the second half that I’m struggling with in terms of what to do. Traveling is clearly personal, but I’d appreciate some input from those of you who have experienced the UK with kids.

Two Major Options:
1. After London, spent the rest of the time visiting SW England. Specifically Oxford, Cotswolds, and the Jurassic Coast (maybe stop by Stonehenge somewhere therein). Is four days enough for this, or is that too ambitious? The four days would need to include travel time to/from London. I don’t know if the Cotswolds is worth it for kids, or if it’s just okay to just drive through during part of a day. Warwick might be something to swap as I hear kids love it. I assume I’d need to rent a car for this, and while I’d be just as happy as can be to drive all over the country in a car, I don’t think the youngest would enjoy that so much.
4 days is enough without being too too ambitious. Avebury (stone circle in a village) is an alternative to Stonehenge (good visitor centre now, but perhaps disappointing).

Your main problem will be traffic. And the cross country roads are slow. You can't see over the hedges which reduces the charm. Traffic on roads like the A303 on a Friday evening or Sunday evening is just horrible.

Oxford is a day. Cotswolds is a day. It's all doable. Yes renting a car is probably the best way to do it. Trains are expensive and the routes all tend to terminate in London ie going cross country is harder with the timetables.
2. After London, spend the rest of the time visiting Scotland. If we did this, I’m a lot less certain on what a good itinerary would be for kids. Edinburgh looks great, but I don’t know how much more city the kids need after London. The highlands and the remote spaces appeals to me greatly, but it seems like a big area that I need to really be thoughtful in choosing from due to limited time. Skye is appealing. Do I need to rent a car, or hire a tour company?
You will spend most of a day getting to Scotland and most of a day getting back. You can fly to Skye, and of course it is doable, but you are really stretching yourself. Unless you can fly home from Edinburgh or Glasgow? Other than a bus tour, getting around the Highlands, you need a car. Scotland is *big* by British standards, more than half the landmass.
3. Alternative: Just spend the entire time diving deep into London with the city as the travel base, with one or two day trips to nearby locations, like Oxford and Windsor, possibly Stonehenge (though would still love to see the Jurassic Coast if that’s advisable).

Considerations:
Would like the kids to see the world, get some exposure to the culture and a great visual sense of what the area looks like. The idea of having the kids up close and personal with ancient history appeals to me (that’s why the early human civilization sites in and around Stonehenge appeal to me, as does the fossil records around the Jurassic Coast—not to mention its sheer beauty). Don’t mind moving through some places fairly quickly just to soak it in visually, but want other spots where we can breathe a bit and not feel overly rushed. We are flying in and out of Heathrow.
If the weather is good, Jurassic Coast is fun. Of course on a weekend many other Brits will have the same idea! (Schools don't break to July so that's OK from that perspective). I am sure someone must have guided tours when you are there.

There are coach (bus) tours out of London that do things like Stonehenge in a day. Low stress for parents but maybe a bit boring for kids.
Would take the train to Scotland if we decide to go, at least on the first leg (maybe fly back to Heathrow on the return), though I’ve wondered about flying into Inverness to see the highlands, and then leave out of Edinburgh. In hindsight I wish I could add one or two days to the trip, but it’s too late for that now. Part of the psychology here is the idea that we won’t return to this region for a long, long time, and Scotland is tempting, though maybe not sensible. I’ve looked at a lot of travel books, blogs, and videos, and at this point it’s all a blur. What I really need to do is dialogue with folks who’ve been there. One child is elementary age, the other early middle school.

I’d appreciate first some thoughts on choosing between the two locations, and second, some detailed itinerary suggestions that take into consideration transportation and travel considerations with kids.
If you were doing Scotland then yes, fly to Inverness and skip Edinburgh. Edinburgh is a trip all on its own. Fly to Inverness and rent a car. I loved Fort George (18th century fort, still used in part as an army base) but it's similar to Fort McHenry etc in America (same era).

There's lots to do in the Highlands but the weather can really turn against you.

Probably I favour sticking in the south. Your child might really enjoy Legoland? (Windsor). You could do all this by train but it's probably more fun to get into a car and do it that way.

Roughly speaking take the time to drive anywhere in eastern North America, and double it, for the same distance in southern England. Due to traffic and roads that don't go straight. So your proposed circumference tour from London west and south west is fine (If you were going to Cornwall I'd throw in another day -- takes a very long time to get to Cornwall). Stay in Bed-and-Breakfasts etc. If you get stuck for a place to stay then Premier Inn is the budget chain, and they are all to a good standard -- clean rooms, reasonable beds. You can get unlucky (stag or hen do, people drunk in the corridors at 3 am) but I have used them all the time for business travel (you might want to go out for breakfast although I have had some perfectly respectable breakfasts, I have had some bad ones too). Prices go up generally the closer to booking date.
Topic Author
angelescrest
Posts: 1730
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am
Location: West Coast

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by angelescrest »

halfnine wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 1:30 am Personally, I'd rent a car and take my children up to Warwick Castle for a day of fun and entertainment. Then head down to the Glouceseter for the day for Cheese Rolling (apparently June 5th this year). The following day would be off to see the stones in Avesbury with a quick, sunset stop for a photo op of Stonehenge. With another a day I would target somewhere else in Southwest England leaving it up for my children to decide since children certainly get more out of the experience when they have a preference, knowledge or a vested interest in the activity.
I like your approach with your kids. Warwick is something that peaked their interest, so I will need to consider this. Is Avebury an entire day affair? I just watched a cheese rolling video with my youngest. Wow, that’s wild. Unfortunately we won’t be there at that time, but it looks unforgettable.
User avatar
BrooklynInvest
Posts: 1183
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:23 am

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by BrooklynInvest »

Love it.

Me, Oxford on the train from London is easy and fun trip for a day or an overnight. Really neat, old museums and awesome, kid-friendly pubs. The Trout being my favorite - and Inspector Morse's too!

The train to Edinburgh will take about 4-5 hours each way so might be a bit out of reach? But the Highlands are stunning. Staying in b and b's cheap and fun.

The Cotswolds are nice - my wife took our parents there and loved it - but not sure it'd be the optimal experience for the kids.
Topic Author
angelescrest
Posts: 1730
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am
Location: West Coast

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by angelescrest »

Valuethinker wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 3:26 am 4 days is enough without being too too ambitious. Avebury (stone circle in a village) is an alternative to Stonehenge (good visitor centre now, but perhaps disappointing).

Your main problem will be traffic. And the cross country roads are slow. You can't see over the hedges which reduces the charm. Traffic on roads like the A303 on a Friday evening or Sunday evening is just horrible.

Oxford is a day. Cotswolds is a day. It's all doable. Yes renting a car is probably the best way to do it. Trains are expensive and the routes all tend to terminate in London ie going cross country is harder with the timetables.

You will spend most of a day getting to Scotland and most of a day getting back. You can fly to Skye, and of course it is doable, but you are really stretching yourself. Unless you can fly home from Edinburgh or Glasgow? Other than a bus tour, getting around the Highlands, you need a car. Scotland is *big* by British standards, more than half the landmass.

If the weather is good, Jurassic Coast is fun. Of course on a weekend many other Brits will have the same idea! (Schools don't break to July so that's OK from that perspective). I am sure someone must have guided tours when you are there.

There are coach (bus) tours out of London that do things like Stonehenge in a day. Low stress for parents but maybe a bit boring for kids.

If you were doing Scotland then yes, fly to Inverness and skip Edinburgh. Edinburgh is a trip all on its own. Fly to Inverness and rent a car. I loved Fort George (18th century fort, still used in part as an army base) but it's similar to Fort McHenry etc in America (same era).

There's lots to do in the Highlands but the weather can really turn against you.

Probably I favour sticking in the south. Your child might really enjoy Legoland? (Windsor). You could do all this by train but it's probably more fun to get into a car and do it that way.

Roughly speaking take the time to drive anywhere in eastern North America, and double it, for the same distance in southern England. Due to traffic and roads that don't go straight. So your proposed circumference tour from London west and south west is fine (If you were going to Cornwall I'd throw in another day -- takes a very long time to get to Cornwall). Stay in Bed-and-Breakfasts etc. If you get stuck for a place to stay then Premier Inn is the budget chain, and they are all to a good standard -- clean rooms, reasonable beds. You can get unlucky (stag or hen do, people drunk in the corridors at 3 am) but I have used them all the time for business travel (you might want to go out for breakfast although I have had some perfectly respectable breakfasts, I have had some bad ones too). Prices go up generally the closer to booking date.
These are super helpful insights, thank you valuethinker.

Given that we would be doing these four days between Sunday evening (travel day) through a Thursday evening, sounds like the fact that we are avoiding the weekend will really work in our favor. Your insights about travel distances, traffic, and times, is really helpful. I am a bit concerned about being stuck in a car with the kids and having no bathroom in sight, or wasting a lot of time trying to find parking.

I just ordered rain jackets, but perhaps I need to do more thinking about the weather and how that might impact a trip to the Highlands or even the Jurassic Coast. On the latter, we watched an Attenborough special where you can go fossil hunting, and they seemed to enjoy that—so I liked the connection there. I don’t think we’ll be going to Cornwall. But it seems like the weather is a real factor to consider. If I had it my way, and knowing my kids, I’d play the second half of our trip more spontaneously based on their energy and response to previous sites, but it seems like you really need to book things well in advance unless I’m incorrect about that.

Thanks for advocating for the Premier Inn, that’s actually what I booked for our first several days due to it being the only four person a room (for the same price even) hotel I could find.

With regard to flying into Inverness, what would you suggest as an itinerary from there?
backpacker61
Posts: 1613
Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 6:36 am

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by backpacker61 »

It's a long term goal of mine to hike the Cotswold Way some day. I could easily spend your budgeted 9 days just in the Cotwolds. Some of my ancestors were from Wiltshire, so I'm a little biased.

https://www.nationaltrail.co.uk/en_GB/t ... swold-way/

Perhaps you could budget some time to hike a portion of the Cotswold Way. I would try to do Scotland on a separate trip, if it were me. Or just do London and environs (Canterbury?) this time, and work in the Cots and Scotland at other times.

I dislike being rushed on trips, and like to spend a lot of time walking to take in the sights.
“Now shall I walk or shall I ride? | 'Ride,' Pleasure said; | 'Walk,' Joy replied.” | | ― W.H. Davies
User avatar
MJS
Posts: 1312
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by MJS »

If you will be go-go in London, then schedule a down-day on Monday. Take the train to Dover on Sunday. On Monday, chill on the beach & cliffs: look at France; collect chalk and flints ... maybe knapp knives or arrowheads; read "Dover Beach"; talk about Dunkirk; eat whelks & winkles. The next day, rent a car and drive down to Jurassic Beach. Driving in Greater London is expensive & challenging -- Coastal roads tend to have less traffic & fewer hedges.
Ipsa scientia potestas est. Bacon F.
halfnine
Posts: 2421
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:48 pm

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by halfnine »

angelescrest wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 8:51 am
halfnine wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 1:30 am Personally, I'd rent a car and take my children up to Warwick Castle for a day of fun and entertainment. Then head down to the Glouceseter for the day for Cheese Rolling (apparently June 5th this year). The following day would be off to see the stones in Avesbury with a quick, sunset stop for a photo op of Stonehenge. With another a day I would target somewhere else in Southwest England leaving it up for my children to decide since children certainly get more out of the experience when they have a preference, knowledge or a vested interest in the activity.
I like your approach with your kids. Warwick is something that peaked their interest, so I will need to consider this. Is Avebury an entire day affair? I just watched a cheese rolling video with my youngest. Wow, that’s wild. Unfortunately we won’t be there at that time, but it looks unforgettable.
Avebury isn't a full day but Warwick Castle would be. So, my thinking would be after the castle, dinner and stay nearby. Spend the morning driving to Avebury then a few hours wandering around Avebury before a quick stop at Stonehenge then continue on to wherever the next day is. That's all OTOH but the logistics should be fairly close.
Valuethinker
Posts: 49030
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by Valuethinker »

MJS wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 10:58 am If you will be go-go in London, then schedule a down-day on Monday. Take the train to Dover on Sunday. On Monday, chill on the beach & cliffs: look at France; collect chalk and flints ... maybe knapp knives or arrowheads; read "Dover Beach"; talk about Dunkirk; eat whelks & winkles. The next day, rent a car and drive down to Jurassic Beach. Driving in Greater London is expensive & challenging -- Coastal roads tend to have less traffic & fewer hedges.
Dover is the completely wrong part of the world for the Jurassic Beach. It takes a long time to drive from Dover to Dorset- -that's a full day's drive I would reckon (5-6 hours of hard driving?). TBH I think you might have to go via the M25 (ie the London Orbital Motorway, which is also used for life imprisonment for bad driving).

Dover itself is also in hell now, due to customs delays which are a legal necessity arising from our Brexit from the EU. And there is the problem of rubber dinghies crossing the Channel full of asylum seekers from Afghanistan and such-like. It's also not that pretty a town (carrying something like 80% of cross-Channel lorry traffic?). Castle is nice and interesting and yes the WW2 museum underneath is interesting (but only for people interested in the history).

I would never recommend anyone drive in greater London if they can possibly avoid it. If you have to pick up a car and drive out, well, yes--that works. But otherwise ...
Valuethinker
Posts: 49030
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by Valuethinker »

angelescrest wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:06 am
Valuethinker wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 3:26 am 4 days is enough without being too too ambitious. Avebury (stone circle in a village) is an alternative to Stonehenge (good visitor centre now, but perhaps disappointing).

Your main problem will be traffic. And the cross country roads are slow. You can't see over the hedges which reduces the charm. Traffic on roads like the A303 on a Friday evening or Sunday evening is just horrible.

Oxford is a day. Cotswolds is a day. It's all doable. Yes renting a car is probably the best way to do it. Trains are expensive and the routes all tend to terminate in London ie going cross country is harder with the timetables.

You will spend most of a day getting to Scotland and most of a day getting back. You can fly to Skye, and of course it is doable, but you are really stretching yourself. Unless you can fly home from Edinburgh or Glasgow? Other than a bus tour, getting around the Highlands, you need a car. Scotland is *big* by British standards, more than half the landmass.

If the weather is good, Jurassic Coast is fun. Of course on a weekend many other Brits will have the same idea! (Schools don't break to July so that's OK from that perspective). I am sure someone must have guided tours when you are there.

There are coach (bus) tours out of London that do things like Stonehenge in a day. Low stress for parents but maybe a bit boring for kids.

If you were doing Scotland then yes, fly to Inverness and skip Edinburgh. Edinburgh is a trip all on its own. Fly to Inverness and rent a car. I loved Fort George (18th century fort, still used in part as an army base) but it's similar to Fort McHenry etc in America (same era).

There's lots to do in the Highlands but the weather can really turn against you.

Probably I favour sticking in the south. Your child might really enjoy Legoland? (Windsor). You could do all this by train but it's probably more fun to get into a car and do it that way.

Roughly speaking take the time to drive anywhere in eastern North America, and double it, for the same distance in southern England. Due to traffic and roads that don't go straight. So your proposed circumference tour from London west and south west is fine (If you were going to Cornwall I'd throw in another day -- takes a very long time to get to Cornwall). Stay in Bed-and-Breakfasts etc. If you get stuck for a place to stay then Premier Inn is the budget chain, and they are all to a good standard -- clean rooms, reasonable beds. You can get unlucky (stag or hen do, people drunk in the corridors at 3 am) but I have used them all the time for business travel (you might want to go out for breakfast although I have had some perfectly respectable breakfasts, I have had some bad ones too). Prices go up generally the closer to booking date.
These are super helpful insights, thank you valuethinker.

Given that we would be doing these four days between Sunday evening (travel day) through a Thursday evening, sounds like the fact that we are avoiding the weekend will really work in our favor. Your insights about travel distances, traffic, and times, is really helpful. I am a bit concerned about being stuck in a car with the kids and having no bathroom in sight, or wasting a lot of time trying to find parking.
Pubs have bathrooms (but you will have to buy some refreshments). These days most pubs have family-friendly dining areas (as opposed to "adults only"). Motorway service stations have restrooms (they are required to have that & some kind of eating/ drinking facilities as part of their franchise *however* things got closed in Covid and I am not sure if they have all reopened (although I expect so)).
I just ordered rain jackets, but perhaps I need to do more thinking about the weather and how that might impact a trip to the Highlands or even the Jurassic Coast.
It can be really warm in June. So then you don't want too much. It can be 80s, or it can be mid 60s (and damp). So something you can layer is best.

https://www.visit-dorset.com/explore/jurassic-coast/ as I say it would be neat to have (for an hour or two) a guided tour -- someone know knows about fossils.

https://www.amazon.com/Graphic-Science- ... oks&sr=1-1 tells you a lot about Mary Anning (the original fossil hunter, at a time when women did not do such things) that I certainly didn't know, and in a graphic novel format.

(Dorchester is a picture perfect little town -- Barchester in the Thomas Hardy novels; but perhaps more of interest to older kids, who might be reading some of the novels in school).
On the latter, we watched an Attenborough special where you can go fossil hunting, and they seemed to enjoy that—so I liked the connection there. I don’t think we’ll be going to Cornwall. But it seems like the weather is a real factor to consider. If I had it my way, and knowing my kids, I’d play the second half of our trip more spontaneously based on their energy and response to previous sites, but it seems like you really need to book things well in advance unless I’m incorrect about that.
Weather is unpredictable. It *should* be warm and sunny (low 70s). But it can be very wet and rainy. Good news is that weather systems also pass through quite quickly.

Booking. You are before English schools break (Scottish ones break earlier) in mid July. So weekends are bad but weekdays you should be OK (Europe tends to go on holiday en masse in August, Scandinavia in July). Premier Inn is easy to book online, but the closer to the date, the higher the price (they copied that model from discount airlines like Ryanair).

If you are flexible as to destination, use Bed & Breakfasts, etc, you *should* be OK, even just booking 1-2 days ahead. I should warn you that I tend to book everything ahead, and I don't necessarily know how it would work not doing that, in my own country.
Thanks for advocating for the Premier Inn, that’s actually what I booked for our first several days due to it being the only four person a room (for the same price even) hotel I could find.

With regard to flying into Inverness, what would you suggest as an itinerary from there?
I don't have a good itinerary out of Inverness.

https://www.visitinvernesslochness.com/

should give you some ideas. A castle or two, see Loch Ness (no doubt there is some hokey monument to the "monster" which could be fun).

I would say the weather in Scotland is very likely to include rain. As they say in Scotland "you don't have to worry about the seasons here, we have all 4 every day" (paraphrasing). And it can be a lot colder (60s or even 50s).

Unless you are planning to fly home from Scotland it's a big ask to go up there and then go back down to London - as I say, you will lose better part of a day each way.
Last edited by Valuethinker on Thu May 26, 2022 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MJS
Posts: 1312
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by MJS »

Valuethinker wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 1:06 pm
MJS wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 10:58 am If you will be go-go in London, then schedule a down-day on Monday. Take the train to Dover on Sunday. On Monday, chill on the beach & cliffs: look at France; collect chalk and flints ... maybe knapp knives or arrowheads; read "Dover Beach"; talk about Dunkirk; eat whelks & winkles. The next day, rent a car and drive down to Jurassic Beach. Driving in Greater London is expensive & challenging -- Coastal roads tend to have less traffic & fewer hedges.
Dover is the completely wrong part of the world for the Jurassic Beach. It takes a long time to drive from Dover to Dorset- -that's a full day's drive I would reckon (5-6 hours of hard driving?). TBH I think you might have to go via the M25 (ie the London Orbital Motorway, which is also used for life imprisonment for bad driving).

Dover itself is also in hell now, due to customs delays which are a legal necessity arising from our Brexit from the EU. And there is the problem of rubber dinghies crossing the Channel full of asylum seekers from Afghanistan and such-like. It's also not that pretty a town (carrying something like 80% of cross-Channel lorry traffic?). Castle is nice and interesting and yes the WW2 museum underneath is interesting (but only for people interested in the history).

I would never recommend anyone drive in greater London if they can possibly avoid it. If you have to pick up a car and drive out, well, yes--that works. But otherwise ...
Too bad, I loved it a decade ago! Google Maps said Jurassic Coast was only 200 miles from Dover ... but distance is local. Thanks for the heads-up.
Ipsa scientia potestas est. Bacon F.
User avatar
chickadee
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:13 pm

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by chickadee »

I belong to a Scottish travel group on Facebook, and based on everything I see discussed there, I wouldn't go to Scotland next month. Trying to get a rental car at this late date is hard. Most places are B&Bs and these are already booked up. Forget Isle of Skye, that's booked out through September. The TV series Outlander has spurred a lot of tourism to lovely Scotland. I'd save it for when you can do it justice and plan ahead.

I just returned from a Bath, London, Paris trip and I would wholeheartedly recommend just staying in England. On another trip we really loved Oxford (take a walking tour), Warwick castle also a good stop, but we had a car that time and were based in the Cotswolds (Chipping Campden).

So my first idea would be London, Oxford, Bath. If you don't want to drive, you can train between these three. Hire a guide out of Oxford for the day if you want to see Cotswolds. In Oxford there is plenty to do, take a walking tour, go punting on the river, visit the Ashmolean Musem, Bodleian library, and then out to tour Blenheim palace. In Bath, see the Roman Baths (kids should like this one) and Bath Abbey, The town itself is beautiful and easy walking. Hire a guide out of Bath for the day to see Stonehenge, Avebury, or anything else in that area. I have a guide I just used to tour out of Bath, if you'd like his name, just PM me. He has a nice new van and is a lot of fun! He can also do a lower cotswolds tour for you.

My second idea would be to just do London and Oxford with side trips. The moving around and checking in and out of hotels really eats up time for "fun." Maybe a day trip to Brighton or Warner Bros. Harry Potter Studio Tour London – if there is interest there. Then train to Oxford. Use that as a base for this area. On the last night, you could maybe train to Windsor, which is close to Heathrow. See the castle there, then home.

Both ideas work with a car rental, of course.
Valuethinker
Posts: 49030
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by Valuethinker »

MJS wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 1:31 pm
Valuethinker wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 1:06 pm
MJS wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 10:58 am If you will be go-go in London, then schedule a down-day on Monday. Take the train to Dover on Sunday. On Monday, chill on the beach & cliffs: look at France; collect chalk and flints ... maybe knapp knives or arrowheads; read "Dover Beach"; talk about Dunkirk; eat whelks & winkles. The next day, rent a car and drive down to Jurassic Beach. Driving in Greater London is expensive & challenging -- Coastal roads tend to have less traffic & fewer hedges.
Dover is the completely wrong part of the world for the Jurassic Beach. It takes a long time to drive from Dover to Dorset- -that's a full day's drive I would reckon (5-6 hours of hard driving?). TBH I think you might have to go via the M25 (ie the London Orbital Motorway, which is also used for life imprisonment for bad driving).

Dover itself is also in hell now, due to customs delays which are a legal necessity arising from our Brexit from the EU. And there is the problem of rubber dinghies crossing the Channel full of asylum seekers from Afghanistan and such-like. It's also not that pretty a town (carrying something like 80% of cross-Channel lorry traffic?). Castle is nice and interesting and yes the WW2 museum underneath is interesting (but only for people interested in the history).

I would never recommend anyone drive in greater London if they can possibly avoid it. If you have to pick up a car and drive out, well, yes--that works. But otherwise ...
Too bad, I loved it a decade ago! Google Maps said Jurassic Coast was only 200 miles from Dover ... but distance is local. Thanks for the heads-up.
You are right, it is doable. But it's really going from the wrong corner of Kent (ie the very SE bit) -- not logical if you are eventually heading west. And.. .traffic.. you are going via Brighton, Southampton, Portsmouth - all of which have their own traffic issues.
Valuethinker
Posts: 49030
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by Valuethinker »

chickadee wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 1:35 pm I belong to a Scottish travel group on Facebook, and based on everything I see discussed there, I wouldn't go to Scotland next month. Trying to get a rental car at this late date is hard. Most places are B&Bs and these are already booked up. Forget Isle of Skye, that's booked out through September. The TV series Outlander has spurred a lot of tourism to lovely Scotland. I'd save it for when you can do it justice and plan ahead.

I just returned from a Bath, London, Paris trip and I would wholeheartedly recommend just staying in England. On another trip we really loved Oxford (take a walking tour), Warwick castle also a good stop, but we had a car that time and were based in the Cotswolds (Chipping Campden).

So my first idea would be London, Oxford, Bath. If you don't want to drive, you can train between these three. Hire a guide out of Oxford for the day if you want to see Cotswolds. In Oxford there is plenty to do, take a walking tour, go punting on the river, visit the Ashmolean Musem, Bodleian library, and then out to tour Blenheim palace. In Bath, see the Roman Baths (kids should like this one) and Bath Abbey, The town itself is beautiful and easy walking. Hire a guide out of Bath for the day to see Stonehenge, Avebury, or anything else in that area. I have a guide I just used to tour out of Bath, if you'd like his name, just PM me. He has a nice new van and is a lot of fun! He can also do a lower cotswolds tour for you.

My second idea would be to just do London and Oxford with side trips. The moving around and checking in and out of hotels really eats up time for "fun." Maybe a day trip to Brighton or Warner Bros. Harry Potter Studio Tour London – if there is interest there. Then train to Oxford. Use that as a base for this area. On the last night, you could maybe train to Windsor, which is close to Heathrow. See the castle there, then home.

Both ideas work with a car rental, of course.
These are all good ideas.

I had thought in terms of bus tours, which can indeed be booked in Oxford or Bath. Both easy trips on the train.

Important to book train tickets ahead if one can. The price difference vs. a day return can be 2x, 4x. Ticket prices are set by the different train companies (in discussions with their regulator) and can be completely irrational relative to distance/ time. Trains arriving before 930 in London are usually (much) more expensive.

Windsor the Great Park is always open. However with the castle... I don't know what is open if HM the Queen happens to be in residence. Also Covid, and I am not sure whether it is fully open. Next weekend happens to be the 70th anniversary of her Coronation.

Important note. London now has Crossrail! The Elizabeth line. As of this week the Paddington (west) to Abbey Wood (SE) section is running! This means you can go from Paddington to Canary Wharf (a financial centre) in something under 25 minutes. This is amazing ... I run out of superlatives. Unfortunately Bond St Station is not yet open (the whole thing is nearly 5 years late) so you wind up at the scuzzier end of Oxford St (Tottenham Court Rd) which is best known for Primark (4 floors of cheap clothing & 10 gazillion tourists from Europe, Middle East doing their shopping).
Mr. Rumples
Posts: 2979
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:16 am

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by Mr. Rumples »

My late husband's cousin is a crofter in Scotland. It's a wonderful country.

Ditto on the Jacobite Steam Train.

Check to see if any Highland games correspond with your schedule: https://www.visitscotland.com/see-do/ev ... and-games/. (Note that Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II is the patron of the Braemar Gathering. In years past, she attended, doubtful this year. https://www.braemargathering.org )
For an overview of a gathering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKEUeFV5-FM

Check the CalMac ferries to see if they and their destinations might be of interest: https://www.calmac.co.uk/summer-timetables

Actress Julie Walters did a series on train travel around Scotland on the West Highland Railway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roKvN5-gXyE

Of course, lots to see in London. Perhaps kids will like walking up the dome at St. Paul's Cathedral. At over 500 steps its quite a climb but worth it; be aware there is only one way up and one way down so once started the walk must be completed!

Regarding Covid, each of the nations comprising the UK have similar, but not identical rules. Right now its not an issue. Its worthwhile to keep abreast:
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... nations-uk
"History is the memory of time, the life of the dead and the happiness of the living." Captain John Smith 1580-1631
gerntz
Posts: 695
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 3:37 pm

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by gerntz »

- SW England for me including Bath & Stonehenge.
- I'd also do Wells' beautiful Cathedral & Salisbury's.
- Does London include Windsor Castle? If not, it should. Kids should really like it. London day trip.
Topic Author
angelescrest
Posts: 1730
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am
Location: West Coast

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by angelescrest »

backpacker61 wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:22 am It's a long term goal of mine to hike the Cotswold Way some day. I could easily spend your budgeted 9 days just in the Cotwolds. Some of my ancestors were from Wiltshire, so I'm a little biased.

https://www.nationaltrail.co.uk/en_GB/t ... swold-way/

Perhaps you could budget some time to hike a portion of the Cotswold Way. I would try to do Scotland on a separate trip, if it were me. Or just do London and environs (Canterbury?) this time, and work in the Cots and Scotland at other times.

I dislike being rushed on trips, and like to spend a lot of time walking to take in the sights.
You are very wise in how you travel. I share the same sentiments, except by bike. I could ride the 350km King Alfred's Way in a couple days, or try out one of the many long distance cycling routes in the UK, and as such I'd be very happy indeed. Alas, my children don't roll that way. I hear the Cotswolds is amazing by bike.
Topic Author
angelescrest
Posts: 1730
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am
Location: West Coast

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by angelescrest »

chickadee wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 1:35 pm I belong to a Scottish travel group on Facebook, and based on everything I see discussed there, I wouldn't go to Scotland next month. Trying to get a rental car at this late date is hard. Most places are B&Bs and these are already booked up. Forget Isle of Skye, that's booked out through September. The TV series Outlander has spurred a lot of tourism to lovely Scotland. I'd save it for when you can do it justice and plan ahead.

I just returned from a Bath, London, Paris trip and I would wholeheartedly recommend just staying in England. On another trip we really loved Oxford (take a walking tour), Warwick castle also a good stop, but we had a car that time and were based in the Cotswolds (Chipping Campden).

So my first idea would be London, Oxford, Bath. If you don't want to drive, you can train between these three. Hire a guide out of Oxford for the day if you want to see Cotswolds. In Oxford there is plenty to do, take a walking tour, go punting on the river, visit the Ashmolean Musem, Bodleian library, and then out to tour Blenheim palace. In Bath, see the Roman Baths (kids should like this one) and Bath Abbey, The town itself is beautiful and easy walking. Hire a guide out of Bath for the day to see Stonehenge, Avebury, or anything else in that area. I have a guide I just used to tour out of Bath, if you'd like his name, just PM me. He has a nice new van and is a lot of fun! He can also do a lower cotswolds tour for you.

My second idea would be to just do London and Oxford with side trips. The moving around and checking in and out of hotels really eats up time for "fun." Maybe a day trip to Brighton or Warner Bros. Harry Potter Studio Tour London – if there is interest there. Then train to Oxford. Use that as a base for this area. On the last night, you could maybe train to Windsor, which is close to Heathrow. See the castle there, then home.

Both ideas work with a car rental, of course.
You've helped me tip the scales to leave Scotland for another day. Between the advanced planning and the travel time, I think we'll leave it alone. I'm a bit relieved, honestly. Funny thing is I watched about two episodes of Outlander before I lost interest in the show, though not Scotland. Edinburgh still has plenty of lodging, but I don't want to spend all the travel time just to do the city.

So England it is. Time to go return my UK travel book and exchange it for an exclusive England one to save a kilogram in weight.

For whatever reason, I haven't felt compelled to see Bath. What's wrong with me? Would love to know what is so appealing about Bath and whether or not it would be a great place for the kids, considering the other locations we are thinking about.

At the top of my consideration list has been Oxford first and foremost, then thinking of the Cotswolds and the Jurassic Coast (specifically Lyme Regis, Lulworth Cove/Durdle Door). The other places in the vicinity in consideration are Warwick, Windsor, Avebury/Stonehenge, and we even considered Glastonbury Tor/Wells area after my youngest was interested from watching Rick Steve's video on it.

The area most out of the way would be the Jurassic Coast, due to it being further toward the south, and possibly take up more driving time. It's possible to time it to do a tour with one of the scientists to look at fossils on the shore, but that's not certain. We're not serious about paleontology or anything, but the combination of beautiful coastline (we live near a pretty spectacular one already) and the science felt like a unique option to change things up. Is this worth trying to fit in?

Kids haven't read or seen Harry Potter yet, so...not interested in the studio tour. But I will likely take them to Christ Church and show them some scenes and images prior. They are huge fans of the great British baking show, however; I'll have to see if there's a way to tie that in in terms of taking them to get some amazing breads/cakes/pastries/etc.
Topic Author
angelescrest
Posts: 1730
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am
Location: West Coast

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by angelescrest »

Valuethinker wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:00 pm Important note. London now has Crossrail! The Elizabeth line. As of this week the Paddington (west) to Abbey Wood (SE) section is running! This means you can go from Paddington to Canary Wharf (a financial centre) in something under 25 minutes. This is amazing ... I run out of superlatives. Unfortunately Bond St Station is not yet open (the whole thing is nearly 5 years late) so you wind up at the scuzzier end of Oxford St (Tottenham Court Rd) which is best known for Primark (4 floors of cheap clothing & 10 gazillion tourists from Europe, Middle East doing their shopping).
Yes! I spent a good part of a morning last week reading all about the Crossrail. I have no idea if I'll need to take it during my stay in London, but I want to take it. Kids should see what proper modern public transportation looks like anyhow. I'm a sucker for subways, cavernous stations, and all the engineering. I'm also a fan of Andy Byford.
User avatar
chickadee
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:13 pm

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by chickadee »

If Bath doesn't spark joy, then by all means nix it. I was mentioning places that wouldn't require you to rent a car and that could be easily accomplished by train. Operators in both Bath and Oxford run small bus tours or private guides into the Cotswolds, Glastonbury, Stonehenge, etc., and surrounding areas if you decide that a car is a hassle. Have you driven on the left before? Are you familiar with negotiating roundabouts? It is quite a change and really stressful for first time UK drivers. We've driven all over the UK and Ireland on trips in years past, but lately we let the train take the pain and do small bus day tours or hire guides to ferry us about. It lets my husband actually enjoy the trip instead of having to stress about being the designated driver.

I've not been to Lyme Regis. My sense is that its a typical fudge shop, tourist tat, rocky beach small English beach resort that's seen better days. Whether the fossil stuff is worth it for the kids would need some research. It is also of course a drive from Oxford, then you have to get all the way back to London to go home. Maybe someone who has been there can chime in. I've not been to the Jurassic coast, so if that ends up being the focus of the trip, I'd get a good guidebook and watch any videos on the area to plan. Might be you do London with Oxford day trip, then Jurassic coast.

How many actual nights do you have on the ground? Is it 5 nights in London, then 4 nights somewhere else? You said you had 4 full days in London, which implies 5 nights sleeping there. If it is 4 nights elsewhere, then to me, that's 3 nights in Oxford and 1 night in Windsor or airport hotel perhaps. Flights home are often very early, and with the long lines happening at Heathrow, I would be staying near there on my last night. 3 nights in Oxford is just 2 full sightseeing days. There's plenty to do there in 2 days.

ACTUALLY, on second thought, one idea/tip I might suggest is to go straight to Oxford from Heathrow upon landing. There's a good bus that you can take straight from the airport to Oxford (we've done this). See Oxford and get over jet lag. See the sites. Do a guided walk of the colleges. Punt along the river. Take an excursion into the Cotswolds by mini bus. On another day, maybe take a tour to Stonehenge or Warwick castle. Or go see Blenheim palace and the village of Woodstock. Once you are done with Oxford and surrounds, train to London. You'll really be over jet lag and more relaxed by then, and the big city will be easier to maneuver. This also means not having to reposition yourself for that last night before the flight home. While in London, see all the big sites you're interested in. Then take a day trip by train to whatever strikes your fancy. Hampton Court Palace? Windsor? Brighton? Canterbury? There's an unending list of day trips from London by train in 1.5 hours each way or less. Then go home! You and your kids will have seen some amazing sites with minimal checking into and out of hotels. So then you'll have an idea of how quickly everyone adjusts to European travel, and what would be of interest for the next trip!

You just need to be realistic about how long it takes to see the sites that are important to you, and how much time you want to be sitting in a car and/or traffic or train. Valuethinker lives there, and is undoubtedly giving good advice on how not fun the coastal traffic is. Watching all of Rick Steves' videos on the areas is a great idea, btw, and should help you narrow down what is interesting to _your_ family, coupled with what is feasible in the time you have.
Topic Author
angelescrest
Posts: 1730
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am
Location: West Coast

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by angelescrest »

chickadee wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 10:40 am If Bath doesn't spark joy, then by all means nix it. I was mentioning places that wouldn't require you to rent a car and that could be easily accomplished by train. Operators in both Bath and Oxford run small bus tours or private guides into the Cotswolds, Glastonbury, Stonehenge, etc., and surrounding areas if you decide that a car is a hassle. Have you driven on the left before? Are you familiar with negotiating roundabouts? It is quite a change and really stressful for first time UK drivers. We've driven all over the UK and Ireland on trips in years past, but lately we let the train take the pain and do small bus day tours or hire guides to ferry us about. It lets my husband actually enjoy the trip instead of having to stress about being the designated driver.

I've not been to Lyme Regis. My sense is that its a typical fudge shop, tourist tat, rocky beach small English beach resort that's seen better days. Whether the fossil stuff is worth it for the kids would need some research. It is also of course a drive from Oxford, then you have to get all the way back to London to go home. Maybe someone who has been there can chime in. I've not been to the Jurassic coast, so if that ends up being the focus of the trip, I'd get a good guidebook and watch any videos on the area to plan. Might be you do London with Oxford day trip, then Jurassic coast.

How many actual nights do you have on the ground? Is it 5 nights in London, then 4 nights somewhere else? You said you had 4 full days in London, which implies 5 nights sleeping there. If it is 4 nights elsewhere, then to me, that's 3 nights in Oxford and 1 night in Windsor or airport hotel perhaps. Flights home are often very early, and with the long lines happening at Heathrow, I would be staying near there on my last night. 3 nights in Oxford is just 2 full sightseeing days. There's plenty to do there in 2 days.

ACTUALLY, on second thought, one idea/tip I might suggest is to go straight to Oxford from Heathrow upon landing. There's a good bus that you can take straight from the airport to Oxford (we've done this). See Oxford and get over jet lag. See the sites. Do a guided walk of the colleges. Punt along the river. Take an excursion into the Cotswolds by mini bus. On another day, maybe take a tour to Stonehenge or Warwick castle. Or go see Blenheim palace and the village of Woodstock. Once you are done with Oxford and surrounds, train to London. You'll really be over jet lag and more relaxed by then, and the big city will be easier to maneuver. This also means not having to reposition yourself for that last night before the flight home. While in London, see all the big sites you're interested in. Then take a day trip by train to whatever strikes your fancy. Hampton Court Palace? Windsor? Brighton? Canterbury? There's an unending list of day trips from London by train in 1.5 hours each way or less. Then go home! You and your kids will have seen some amazing sites with minimal checking into and out of hotels. So then you'll have an idea of how quickly everyone adjusts to European travel, and what would be of interest for the next trip!

You just need to be realistic about how long it takes to see the sites that are important to you, and how much time you want to be sitting in a car and/or traffic or train. Valuethinker lives there, and is undoubtedly giving good advice on how not fun the coastal traffic is. Watching all of Rick Steves' videos on the areas is a great idea, btw, and should help you narrow down what is interesting to _your_ family, coupled with what is feasible in the time you have.
Thank you chickadee, for the additional details. I really like your suggestion of doing London last, but due to other factors we have to start with London. Personally, I have zero problem driving on the left (I've done it on multiple long trips down under, South Africa, etc.). My bigger concerns are actually wasting time looking for parking, and whether or not I can be engaged with the kids. For that reason, I'd prefer not to rent a car if I can rely on public transportation, and/or some small sized tours. My primary concern, however, is whether or not that will allow us to see the places we want to see, and avoid the mass crowds of tourists that tour schedules often funnel everyone into. The Cotswolds sound lovely, but I wonder if it will be enjoyable in mid June with a tour bus. So if I don't rent a car, that might limit some of our options. I may be leaning away from the Jurassic Coast. I'll continue looking into these options.

What website do you recommend that will show me how to navigate trains and other public transportation options? It seems like there's a train from London to almost anywhere, but if I go to say Oxford, Warwick, Windsor, or Stonehenge/Avebury, I have to figure out how to get from one of those locations to the other. I am not seeing tours that will take you from one place and leave your at the other--they usually return from where they started. Any tour companies I should look into specifically?
User avatar
Watty
Posts: 28859
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by Watty »

angelescrest wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:01 pm The Cotswolds sound lovely, but I wonder if it will be enjoyable in mid June with a tour bus.
I was in the Cotswolds before the pandemic when we were touring by car and it was nice enough but when we were in areas that the tour busses were at it was hectic so we tried to stay away from those areas. It could be one of those places that is overly tourist during the prime tourist season. It might be best by car in the spring or fall when the crowds could might less.

With such a short trip you might want to skip them this time especially if you don't want to rent a car.
otinkyad
Posts: 486
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:35 pm

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by otinkyad »

At those ages, I’d be afraid that Oxford and Cambridge might be huge misses. We took our kids then, and I ended up leading a diversion so that my wife could enjoy the college tours. (We did have excellent diversions, a tour of Oxford Castle, and even better, an air show at IWM Duxford.) Even Stonehenge can be a bit of a check mark rather than a real attraction. IMHO, Old Sarum is more fun and much less crowded.

We spent a month in London that time, other than that sortie, including trips to Windsor, the RAF museum, Greenwich, and all that central London has to offer. It’s hard to exhaust London, so it’s worth thinking about just staying.

I was just in London for 10 days. We had a weekend driving getaway to Oxford and the Cotswolds, which was nice but we had a purpose and no young kids. That particular direction is an easy drive out of London on the A40/M40 from Kings Cross. Other directions can be tougher. Curiously, weekend traffic was into London, so even with a Friday late afternoon departure and Sunday evening return we saw little traffic (admittedly, it was May, not summer).

If Lyme Regis is an attraction, I’d say go for it. See some selection of Stonehenge, Old Sarum, Avebury, Bath, and maybe some white horses along the way. Check out the English Heritage web site, there are lots of places worth a quick visit. We stopped by the North Leigh Roman Villa on our weekend, as an aside. On our trip years ago we stopped by the Roman Wall at St Albans on our way from Oxford to Cambridge. (That’s a solid advantage of driving over busses and trains, but you own more of the logistics.) Like much of Europe, the UK is a fascinating palimpsest of the ancient, medieval, and modern, and I think it’s a great age to expose kids to that.
User avatar
chickadee
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:13 pm

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by chickadee »

This is a great site for all info on trains.

https://www.seat61.com/index-mobile.htm
halfnine
Posts: 2421
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:48 pm

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by halfnine »

angelescrest wrote: …For whatever reason, I haven't felt compelled to see Bath… then thinking of the Cotswolds…
With children neither of those would make my list. At least not as a destination, possibly as a drive by if the locations were along the way. Although, potentially the Cotswolds if utilized for an overnight stay in one place and not a hopping from one town to the next.
angelescrest wrote:…My bigger concerns are actually wasting time looking for parking, and whether or not I can be engaged with the kids. For that reason, I'd prefer not to rent a car if I can rely on public transportation, and/or some small sized tours. My primary concern, however, is whether or not that will allow us to see the places we want to see, and avoid the mass crowds of tourists that tour schedules often funnel everyone into…
You will need a car to properly see England once your destinations are not the major metropolitan cities. Public transport will not get you there in a timely, non-circuitous journey. And, good luck on Sunday getting most anywhere. With children I’d be less interested in taking a tour (more than a few hours) as well. The tour is not going to ebb and flow with their energy levels, food intake, rest, etc.
angelescrest wrote:…What website do you recommend that will show me how to navigate trains and other public transportation options?...
Google Maps is accurate enough.
angelescrest wrote:…The area most out of the way would be the Jurassic Coast, due to it being further toward the south, and possibly take up more driving time…
This is very true in regards to driving time. Valuethinker has given very sound advice to double the time if might take in North America. Once you start breaching into the Southwest of England you probably need to triple it.
angelescrest wrote:…I am a bit concerned about being stuck in a car with the kids and having no bathroom in sight…
It’s actually a lot simpler with a car to situate a toilet than with public transport.
angelescrest wrote:...or wasting a lot of time trying to find parking...
This is largely a non-issue once you leave the major metropolitan areas behind. And certainly less of a hassle relative to where public transport might drop you off.
angelescrest wrote: ... except by bike. I could ride the 350km King Alfred's Way in a couple days, or try out one of the many long distance cycling routes in the UK, and as such I'd be very happy indeed. Alas, my children don't roll that way…
It is not necessarily a bad thing (for you) at their ages. My kids enjoy bikepacking but the logistics, gear, and just plain getting everything sorted is incredibly challenging and time consuming when they are young. Although, now that my kids are a little bigger and riding bigger bicycles (24 and 27.5) we appear to be hitting a bit of a breakthrough point where it is becoming quite a bit simpler at least in regards to packing and the suitability of the bicycles opens up a lot more terrain. Logistics are still challenging, though, simply because one simply can not just crank out mileage when required leaving one in a bind for food, water, accommodation.

If you are intersted in the various bikepacking possibilities in the UK Keep Smiling Adventures has been cranking them out one by one recently.
Valuethinker
Posts: 49030
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by Valuethinker »

angelescrest wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:01 pm
chickadee wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 10:40 am If Bath doesn't spark joy, then by all means nix it. I was mentioning places that wouldn't require you to rent a car and that could be easily accomplished by train. Operators in both Bath and Oxford run small bus tours or private guides into the Cotswolds, Glastonbury, Stonehenge, etc., and surrounding areas if you decide that a car is a hassle. Have you driven on the left before? Are you familiar with negotiating roundabouts? It is quite a change and really stressful for first time UK drivers. We've driven all over the UK and Ireland on trips in years past, but lately we let the train take the pain and do small bus day tours or hire guides to ferry us about. It lets my husband actually enjoy the trip instead of having to stress about being the designated driver.

I've not been to Lyme Regis. My sense is that its a typical fudge shop, tourist tat, rocky beach small English beach resort that's seen better days. Whether the fossil stuff is worth it for the kids would need some research. It is also of course a drive from Oxford, then you have to get all the way back to London to go home. Maybe someone who has been there can chime in. I've not been to the Jurassic coast, so if that ends up being the focus of the trip, I'd get a good guidebook and watch any videos on the area to plan. Might be you do London with Oxford day trip, then Jurassic coast.

How many actual nights do you have on the ground? Is it 5 nights in London, then 4 nights somewhere else? You said you had 4 full days in London, which implies 5 nights sleeping there. If it is 4 nights elsewhere, then to me, that's 3 nights in Oxford and 1 night in Windsor or airport hotel perhaps. Flights home are often very early, and with the long lines happening at Heathrow, I would be staying near there on my last night. 3 nights in Oxford is just 2 full sightseeing days. There's plenty to do there in 2 days.

ACTUALLY, on second thought, one idea/tip I might suggest is to go straight to Oxford from Heathrow upon landing. There's a good bus that you can take straight from the airport to Oxford (we've done this). See Oxford and get over jet lag. See the sites. Do a guided walk of the colleges. Punt along the river. Take an excursion into the Cotswolds by mini bus. On another day, maybe take a tour to Stonehenge or Warwick castle. Or go see Blenheim palace and the village of Woodstock. Once you are done with Oxford and surrounds, train to London. You'll really be over jet lag and more relaxed by then, and the big city will be easier to maneuver. This also means not having to reposition yourself for that last night before the flight home. While in London, see all the big sites you're interested in. Then take a day trip by train to whatever strikes your fancy. Hampton Court Palace? Windsor? Brighton? Canterbury? There's an unending list of day trips from London by train in 1.5 hours each way or less. Then go home! You and your kids will have seen some amazing sites with minimal checking into and out of hotels. So then you'll have an idea of how quickly everyone adjusts to European travel, and what would be of interest for the next trip!

You just need to be realistic about how long it takes to see the sites that are important to you, and how much time you want to be sitting in a car and/or traffic or train. Valuethinker lives there, and is undoubtedly giving good advice on how not fun the coastal traffic is. Watching all of Rick Steves' videos on the areas is a great idea, btw, and should help you narrow down what is interesting to _your_ family, coupled with what is feasible in the time you have.
Thank you chickadee, for the additional details. I really like your suggestion of doing London last, but due to other factors we have to start with London. Personally, I have zero problem driving on the left (I've done it on multiple long trips down under, South Africa, etc.). My bigger concerns are actually wasting time looking for parking, and whether or not I can be engaged with the kids.
As per other posters, outside of the big cities, parking is not a big issue. With a place like Bath, I think they direct you to a parking lot on the fringe, and there's a Shuttle bus into town.

I thought Bath (the Roman Baths) would be fun for kids - but I could be wrong. I was always interested in history.

RAF Duxford is reached by regular bus from Cambridge Station (or you drive) and has enough planes to fill days. However if the child is just not interested in planes, it's not going to thrill.

Cambridge and Oxford themselves you don't need a car. In fact you don't want one. Rail from London suffices. Ditto Bath. Anything smaller though you will tend to need a car.

You can drive out of London fairly easily (that Kings Cross to A40/M40 route due west). I would say it's bad on a Friday night if the weekend weather is going to be at all good.

We are due rotating rail strikes in June. Which means that coaches (ie long distance buses) will be jammed on those days (disruption usually proceeds into the *next* day as well, in fact often they strike noon to noon to maximize disruption). And you want to have your car rental set up well in advance.

Beware jetlag and driving. Try not to drive in 1st 48 hours after landing.
For that reason, I'd prefer not to rent a car if I can rely on public transportation, and/or some small sized tours. My primary concern, however, is whether or not that will allow us to see the places we want to see, and avoid the mass crowds of tourists that tour schedules often funnel everyone into. The Cotswolds sound lovely, but I wonder if it will be enjoyable in mid June with a tour bus. So if I don't rent a car, that might limit some of our options. I may be leaning away from the Jurassic Coast. I'll continue looking into these options.
You can do a 1 day Cotswolds tour by bus, I am sure (from Oxford, perhaps from London). Jurassic Coast is fun. I don't know Old Sarum, but there are a few Roman & pre Roman things worth seeing. Stonehenge is just a bit of a downer, although the new Visitor Centre has won awards.


What website do you recommend that will show me how to navigate trains and other public transportation options? It seems like there's a train from London to almost anywhere, but if I go to say Oxford, Warwick, Windsor, or Stonehenge/Avebury, I have to figure out how to get from one of those locations to the other. I am not seeing tours that will take you from one place and leave your at the other--they usually return from where they started. Any tour companies I should look into specifically?
I'll have to check.

We book train tickets using trainline.co.uk, usually, but it may be advantageous to go straight to website of each train company.

Those one to the next trips can be difficult to do by public transport. The easiest way is often to go back to London. Local bus schedules are also unreliable (web ones not updated).

Oxford. Warwick. Windsor I'd say go back through London. Stonehenge and Avebury the closest town is ?Salisbury? Every sight will have a "How to get here" on its website (although it may neglect public transport).
Iorek
Posts: 1569
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:38 am

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by Iorek »

I don’t mean to go backwards and this might not work for you anyway but what I think is great is London to York for a night and then York to Edinburgh. Each train ride is about 2 hours so you don’t lose the whole day to travel (and train travel is more relaxing for everyone— also unlike the US train travel is often faster than a car).

York is a really interesting stopover (maybe especially for kids) and Edinburgh is a great city, very different from London and then you can decide whether to do the Jacobite train or see some of the Scottish castles etc. (don’t neccesarily need a rental car and might be better for everyone if you can avoid driving) and maybe fly back to London if you have to fly out of there. Lots of Harry Potter sites in Edinburgh/Scotland if your kids like that.

Probably I would leave it up to the kids what they are interested in.
Topic Author
angelescrest
Posts: 1730
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am
Location: West Coast

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by angelescrest »

Thank you everyone for the wonderful suggestions. Okay, so here's Round 2 of our itinerary, which at this point is mostly booked up in terms of car rentals and hotels. Still working out some details, and will continue to think it through a little bit. But this week I've had some time to digest all that was written here, including time spent reviewing potential locations.

Lots of great input and insights, so I appreciate all that was written above.

After our allotted time in London, this is what we are planning on doing:
  • Sunday: Rent a car from LHR to stay in Bournemouth (using points), and drive to the Jurassic Coast. Depending on how tired we are, we could stop by Stonehenge, but that adds driving time
  • Monday: Explore the Jurassic Coast, making our way west toward Lyme Regis where we have an afternoon fossil walk with local experts. Kids are very excited about finding fossils. After dinner, we'll drive to Bath.
  • Tuesday: Explore Bath, which after more research looks lovely (despite my earlier comments). Early evening drive through Cotswolds to Bourton-on-the-Water where we'll stay.
  • Wednesday: Explore B-O-W and spend time at the Cotswold farm park nearby. Drive to Oxford at end of day, half an hour.
  • Thursday: Explore Oxford.
  • Friday: Explore Oxford, drive to LHR to catch evening flight.

Other considerations:
  • If we don't do the Cotswolds, then that could be swapped for another night in Somerset, either Glastonbury/Bath, and/or allow us to see some combination of ancient sites like Stonehenge/Avebury/Old Sarum on the way to Oxford. Weighing which would be more memorable for the kids.
  • We thought about doing Warwick but decided it wasn't for us.
User avatar
chickadee
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:13 pm

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by chickadee »

Sounds like a plan you have done some good research to come up with! Good mix of town/city and some countryside. Of course it would be nice if you had a bit more time to slow things down a bit, but it is what it is.

In Bath, if you are looking for accommodations, we really enjoyed the Hotel Indigo Bath. It’s a new hotel made by putting together adjoining townhouses. It’s also an IHG property. Great friendly staff and delicious breakfasts (and dinner).

https://bath.hotelindigo.com/

Do get tickets in advance for the Roman Baths if you are interested in that. The museum portion really brings the site to life with projections that help you visualize how it looked back then.

When driving out of Bath, if you end up doing the Cotswolds, Castle Combe is a delightful little village worth a quick stop.
TXJeff
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:47 pm

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by TXJeff »

You said your kids love the Great British Baking Show. Have you thought about visiting the filming site? The show has been filmed at a couple of spectacular country houses/hotels. You could stay overnight or just check it out for an afternoon:

Down Hall, location for the show since 2020: https://www.downhall.co.uk/

Essex Park, location for the show prior to 2020: https://www.welfordpark.co.uk/

Or maybe a baking lesson? Airbnb "experiences" can be a great local source. And here is a list of classes all around the country: https://www.britain-visitor.com/british ... ng-courses . This cooking school in Bath, https://www.thebertinetkitchen.com/, has a one day "Summer Baking" class featuring scones, jammy dodgers, and other items the kids will know from The Baking Show.
User avatar
chickadee
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:13 pm

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by chickadee »

Any updates? How did the trip go?
Topic Author
angelescrest
Posts: 1730
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am
Location: West Coast

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by angelescrest »

chickadee wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:53 am Any updates? How did the trip go?
Hi chickadee, sorry for the late reply.

Well, the short of it is that I had the trip of a lifetime, and the family had a blast too. We've been all over the world, and we always enjoy our trips but usually want to go somewhere else. This is one of those places where we want to keep going back, probably due to the ease of language but also just due to how much we resonate and connect with British culture and the various locations.

It was definitely a bit of a rushed trip for the kids, most notably in that I should have planned for another night in the jurassic coast. The coast, btw, was spectacular and very much worth it for us. Just wish we had another day. Bath was enjoyable, not necessarily a must-see for me, but I'm glad we did it. Bourton-on-the-water was wonderful because of the river, but the town itself wasn't as nice as some of the architecture in other neighboring towns. Where we stayed, though, made it all worth it. Oxford, too, we really loved and had enough time there.

London--what can I say, what a marvelous city. But I am excited to go back, plan more time to eat and shop, as well as visit more museums. I'd like to do Yorkshire at some point, and then of course Scotland.

Thanks for all the great suggestions and feedback on our planning. The aforementioned baking experiences sound like a great thing to try.
Valuethinker
Posts: 49030
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: UK Trip: Scotland vs SW England with kids

Post by Valuethinker »

angelescrest wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:16 pm
chickadee wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:53 am Any updates? How did the trip go?
Hi chickadee, sorry for the late reply.

Well, the short of it is that I had the trip of a lifetime, and the family had a blast too. We've been all over the world, and we always enjoy our trips but usually want to go somewhere else. This is one of those places where we want to keep going back, probably due to the ease of language but also just due to how much we resonate and connect with British culture and the various locations.

It was definitely a bit of a rushed trip for the kids, most notably in that I should have planned for another night in the jurassic coast. The coast, btw, was spectacular and very much worth it for us. Just wish we had another day. Bath was enjoyable, not necessarily a must-see for me, but I'm glad we did it. Bourton-on-the-water was wonderful because of the river, but the town itself wasn't as nice as some of the architecture in other neighboring towns. Where we stayed, though, made it all worth it. Oxford, too, we really loved and had enough time there.

London--what can I say, what a marvelous city. But I am excited to go back, plan more time to eat and shop, as well as visit more museums. I'd like to do Yorkshire at some point, and then of course Scotland.

Thanks for all the great suggestions and feedback on our planning. The aforementioned baking experiences sound like a great thing to try.
I am glad you had such a nice trip.

Right now the currencies are particularly favourable. GBP hasn't been worth this few dollars since ... 1980s?

We are on track for a drought emergency in Southern England. Dryest July since 1935. There will be water use restrictions.

It was also over 100 F for 2 days a couple of weeks ago - country is not equipped to handle this weather -- nothing so air conditioned as North America. Rail travel curtailed because the tracks overheat and break. Etc.

There's also a serious risk of an energy crisis this winter - connected to Russian gas supply (lack of) to Western Europe.

You seem to have passed through our airports without crisis. There have been some pretty bad scenes, particularly at Heathrow.

But setting aside weather extremes & the possibilities of disruption, it is, indeed, a good time to visit the UK. Scotland must be lovely this year (and at least somewhat dry, at least for Scotland).

Main thing is to avoid travel in August if you can - the combination of the English schools break and the Continental summer holiday makes any place that attracts tourists just overcrowded, overpriced... September is a great month and for city-centric visits, just about any time (although it's pretty dark and grey in January - if you look on a map you will see that we are in southern England north of Winnipeg (London is 51 degrees N, Winnipeg is 49 degrees N).
Post Reply