ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

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m@ver1ck
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ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by m@ver1ck »

Any recommendations for home chargers for an EV?

I could just charge at work, but trips to work are just once a week - and my wife used this car for school pickups etc.

3 year charging is free with electrify America - but supposed to be not great for battery life to only fast charge.
DougS44
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by DougS44 »

Check with your electric company to see if they are giving rebates for installing preferred models. Otherwise Juicebox 40 gets good reviews and has a good price on costco.com. One caveat - Costco only carries the model with the plug, if you want a hardwired model you need to look elsewhere. Other EV charger manufacturers seem to carry just one model and let your electrician replace the plug to make it hardwired.
vasaver
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by vasaver »

Will you be able to use 240V Level 2 or 120V Level 1?

For 240V I would go with one of the EVSEs from costco
https://www.costco.com/car-electronics. ... %2BCharger

It really just depends if you want a "smart" connected EVSE so you can charge during specific hours.
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (charger).
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02nz
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by 02nz »

Anything UL-certified is fine - many off-brand stations are not. Clipper Creek and JuiceBox are good. BTW it's not actually a charger (the L2 charger is onboard), but rather EV supply equipment (EVSE).
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mmmodem
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by mmmodem »

m@ver1ck wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:20 pm 3 year charging is free with electrify America - but supposed to be not great for battery life to only fast charge.
This isn't necessarily true. The manufacturers think it is true based on what we know about batteries but that hasn't exactly shown to be true.

With one day a week commute and school drop offs, I wouldn't install anything. Just plug into a standard 120v and the battery will be fully charged in the morning. No need to spend money on a home charger when the included EVSE is sufficient.
Valuethinker
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by Valuethinker »

vasaver wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:20 pm Will you be able to use 240V Level 2 or 120V Level 1?

For 240V I would go with one of the EVSEs from costco
https://www.costco.com/car-electronics. ... %2BCharger

It really just depends if you want a "smart" connected EVSE so you can charge during specific hours.
I realise that things vary between countries & different utilities.

Nonetheless power grid economics all point to the same place -- expensive charging (very expensive) between roughly 4pm-930 pm ie period of peak demand. Also for home solar PV - again would require Time of Use charging (for optimal cost/ efficiency).

So a "not smart" charger would seem to be likely to need replacing in relatively few years time.
mrb09
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by mrb09 »

I have a Nissan Leaf, I purchased a 32 amp charger (I know, really an EVSE) with a 220v plug from Home Depot, our local electric company reimbursed me for it. The brand of my charger is "Lectron", but I think it mostly a generic brand with no special features.

I already had a 50A 220v socket, so I was able to mount the charger myself. If you do have a 220v socket, double check the type, I have a NEMA 6-50, and the Costco one that another poster mentioned is a NEMA 14-50 (which is more common, but not what I had). You can also get a cheaper 16A charger that runs off 110v, but that's going to charge twice as slow. All home charges will be J1772 on the car end of things, so that's completely standard.

Some of the higher end chargers have timers and integration with home automation, but we just use the timer built into the car and let it charge once or twice a week from 10:00 PM to 6:00 AM. We usually wait until we're below 50% to charge. If our electric company ever goes to variable pricing, I'll think about a "smarter" charger.
Valuethinker
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by Valuethinker »

02nz wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:26 am Anything UL-certified is fine - many off-brand stations are not. Clipper Creek and JuiceBox are good. BTW it's not actually a charger (the L2 charger is onboard), but rather EV supply equipment (EVSE).
I imagine if not UL-certified then your home & car insurance might not cover it? As it could be the source of a fire, that could be quite painful?
Afty
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by Afty »

One factor to consider is the length of the cable. A longer cable gives you options for future cars where the charge port may be in a different location.
WhyNotUs
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by WhyNotUs »

We have a chargepoint home flex. Utility provided it and I paid for install. Nice EVSE. I needed max cord length and that one worked for me.

Next generation will tie into home to provide backup power, I will look forward to having backup power without buying additional battery storage in the future.
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mrb09
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by mrb09 »

Valuethinker wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 9:25 am
vasaver wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:20 pm Will you be able to use 240V Level 2 or 120V Level 1?

For 240V I would go with one of the EVSEs from costco
https://www.costco.com/car-electronics. ... %2BCharger

It really just depends if you want a "smart" connected EVSE so you can charge during specific hours.
I realise that things vary between countries & different utilities.

Nonetheless power grid economics all point to the same place -- expensive charging (very expensive) between roughly 4pm-930 pm ie period of peak demand. Also for home solar PV - again would require Time of Use charging (for optimal cost/ efficiency).

So a "not smart" charger would seem to be likely to need replacing in relatively few years time.
I was going to post that most BEVs can schedule charge times on the car end, but I just looked it up and ID.4's seem to have a sophisticated "departure" time setting, so its actual schedule is somewhat hard to predict. So yea, vote for smart charger.
TheGreyingDuke
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

I have helped install 50 JuiceBox,amp units in our community.Although not flawless at first, the software has evolved
to a good state, although most of our vehicles are able to set their own schedule.

A useful dive into charging an ID4 is here;

https://insideevs.com/news/493812/how-t ... wagen-id4/
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Sun88
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by Sun88 »

We purchased a Chevy Bolt in April 2021 and have had no trouble keeping adequately topped off with the 120V charger that came with the car. We put about 1200 miles a month on the car.

Typically the charger is plugged in overnight about five nights a week. Our local utility has a program where they pay $100 a year for the right to limit our charging during peak periods. We particpate in that but our charging has only been curtailed a handful of times in the summer.

One caveat - the Bolt 120V unit offers the option of charging at 8 amps or 12 amps. For a continuous load 80% of the circuit capacity is recommended, i.e 12 amps on a 15 amps circuit. We had a 15 amp outlet available, but the circuit was shared with other appliances, so the 12 amp setting was not feasible. I installed a dedicated 20 amp 120V circuit to get around this and allow charging at 12 amps. If we were stuck with the 8 amp charge setting, our situation would be a lot more marginal.

Hope this helps.
02nz
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by 02nz »

mrb09 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:30 am
Valuethinker wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 9:25 am
vasaver wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:20 pm Will you be able to use 240V Level 2 or 120V Level 1?

For 240V I would go with one of the EVSEs from costco
https://www.costco.com/car-electronics. ... %2BCharger

It really just depends if you want a "smart" connected EVSE so you can charge during specific hours.
I realise that things vary between countries & different utilities.

Nonetheless power grid economics all point to the same place -- expensive charging (very expensive) between roughly 4pm-930 pm ie period of peak demand. Also for home solar PV - again would require Time of Use charging (for optimal cost/ efficiency).

So a "not smart" charger would seem to be likely to need replacing in relatively few years time.
I was going to post that most BEVs can schedule charge times on the car end, but I just looked it up and ID.4's seem to have a sophisticated "departure" time setting, so its actual schedule is somewhat hard to predict. So yea, vote for smart charger.
I've had the "departure" feature on other vehicles, which also had the regular scheduled charging. I would be shocked if the ID.4 was not capable of plain scheduled charging, without the "departure" feature (which generally works in tandem with scheduled charging).
hunoraut
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by hunoraut »

mmmodem wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 9:18 am This isn't necessarily true. The manufacturers think it is true based on what we know about batteries but that hasn't exactly shown to be true.

With one day a week commute and school drop offs, I wouldn't install anything. Just plug into a standard 120v and the battery will be fully charged in the morning. No need to spend money on a home charger when the included EVSE is sufficient.
1. it's true until proven otherwise.
2. 120v is less efficient than 200v+, so there's more energy waste (as heat)
3. until you need it at home, then you'll wish you had it at home
onourway
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by onourway »

The suggestions to use 120v should come with a few caveats. 120v will always be less efficient than 240v charging. Depending on climate and charging location, it may be considerably less so. In very cold temperatures if the vehicle is cold soaked prior to charge, 120v may not be able to charge the battery at all, or only very slowly, as most of the available energy goes to heat the battery. In very hot conditions, the same may occur (to a lesser extent) for cooling. Having the vehicle plugged in and charging nearly full time under these conditions might mean you are continuously consuming hundreds of watts or more that is wasted to simply keep the battery at an acceptable temperature.
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by CorradoJr »

02nz wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:26 am Anything UL-certified is fine - many off-brand stations are not. Clipper Creek and JuiceBox are good. BTW it's not actually a charger (the L2 charger is onboard), but rather EV supply equipment (EVSE).
+1 on Clipper Creek. Very robust and made in USA with a good warranty.
Sun88
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by Sun88 »

onourway wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 1:13 pm The suggestions to use 120v should come with a few caveats. 120v will always be less efficient than 240v charging. Depending on climate and charging location, it may be considerably less so. In very cold temperatures if the vehicle is cold soaked prior to charge, 120v may not be able to charge the battery at all, or only very slowly, as most of the available energy goes to heat the battery. In very hot conditions, the same may occur (to a lesser extent) for cooling. Having the vehicle plugged in and charging nearly full time under these conditions might mean you are continuously consuming hundreds of watts or more that is wasted to simply keep the battery at an acceptable temperature.
Granted 240v is more efficient than 120v, but to conclude most of the energy is wasted using a 120v charger seems extreme. For the year before we purchased the Bolt, household consumption was 16.1 KWH per day. Same twelve months, with the Bolt charging, household consumption was 26.4 KWH per day. That's about 40 miles for each 10 KWH, in line with advertised consumption. We live in SE Michigan, for reference.

Since the OP can charge once a week at work (hopefully a Level 2 charger), backfilling with a couple days home charging on a 120v circuit should be workable.
billaster
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by billaster »

A 120V EVSE will give you roughly 5 miles per hour that you are plugged in. Multiply that by the typical number of hours a day your car is at home and that will give you an approximation of whether 120V charging will work for you.
bzcat
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by bzcat »

I have a Clipper Creek 40P (5 years) and a Chargepoint Flex (4 months). The clipper creek started having issues after 4 years where it fails to negotiate communication one-third of the time. I much prefer the Flex for the faster speed and the integrated place to return the plug after use.

My utility also offers a larger rebate for the Chargepoint than the Clipper Creek because of the Wifi connectivity. We have filed rebates both times for our level 2 installs.
kxl19
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by kxl19 »

m@ver1ck wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:20 pm Any recommendations for home chargers for an EV?

I could just charge at work, but trips to work are just once a week - and my wife used this car for school pickups etc.

3 year charging is free with electrify America - but supposed to be not great for battery life to only fast charge.
I've just installed a new outlet - and noticed the wiring and outlet for 6-50 outlets (using 3 conductor cable NMB 6-2) is way cheaper than 14-50 (4 conductor cable, NMB 6-3). In my case, the wiring was $3/ft vs $6/ft, and the outlet itself was $20 vs $80. Almost as if 14-50 users were getting upcharged.

EVs don't need the neutral line, so the 6-50 is just as good as 14-50
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by mervinj7 »

kxl19 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 4:20 pm
m@ver1ck wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:20 pm Any recommendations for home chargers for an EV?

I could just charge at work, but trips to work are just once a week - and my wife used this car for school pickups etc.

3 year charging is free with electrify America - but supposed to be not great for battery life to only fast charge.
I've just installed a new outlet - and noticed the wiring and outlet for 6-50 outlets (using 3 conductor cable NMB 6-2) is way cheaper than 14-50 (4 conductor cable, NMB 6-3). In my case, the wiring was $3/ft vs $6/ft, and the outlet itself was $20 vs $80. Almost as if 14-50 users were getting upcharged.

EVs don't need the neutral line, so the 6-50 is just as good as 14-50
Considering how much labor and effort it is to pull the wires, why wouldn't one wire for an 14-50 outlet, since it will provide the max flexibility for most chargers on the market today? No electrician I talked to this year recommended anything other than a 14-50 outlet with a 6/3 wiring.
NorCalHiker
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by NorCalHiker »

mervinj7 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:11 pm
kxl19 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 4:20 pm I've just installed a new outlet - and noticed the wiring and outlet for 6-50 outlets (using 3 conductor cable NMB 6-2) is way cheaper than 14-50 (4 conductor cable, NMB 6-3). In my case, the wiring was $3/ft vs $6/ft, and the outlet itself was $20 vs $80. Almost as if 14-50 users were getting upcharged.

EVs don't need the neutral line, so the 6-50 is just as good as 14-50
Considering how much labor and effort it is to pull the wires, why wouldn't one wire for an 14-50 outlet, since it will provide the max flexibility for most chargers on the market today? No electrician I talked to this year recommended anything other than a 14-50 outlet with a 6/3 wiring.
I would definitely wire with the 14-50 and 6/3. You are more likely to have EV chargers with 14-50 plugs and as you said, pulling the cable can be pain, might as well have the neutral there for any potential future use. As far as the plug cost, the pro grade 14-50 plugs are significantly more expensive but they supposedly can take a lot more inserts/removals than the cheaper ones. Home Depot sells the base 14-50s for about $10.
jmg229
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by jmg229 »

Definitely recommend the Chargepoint Flex. The ability to adjust based on circuit rating is nice (can even throw it in the car and take it to the in-laws if on an extended stay). The scheduled charging on the ID4 isn't great (at least in part due to a subpar app), so having a smart EVSE is really nice, especially if there are limits to when you can charge for your utility. And I wouldn't imagine being without a Level 2 charger at home. We did without for the first few weeks we had our ID4 and I would never go back to not having that as an option.
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by crefwatch »

I've been happy with my Grizzl-e, UL and CSA listed. Paid small extra for extra-flexible cord, really nice. Bulletproof (and outdoor rated) solid aluminum case. (Nice heatsink feel.) Free shipping from Canadian mfr. with the internal DIP switches preset to your choice. I mention that because some users may not want to unscrew the cover to set the charge current. I strongly wanted an EVSE that does not require the use of my cellphone. 2021 Bolt EV.

Edit: Not directly to the point, but it has occurred to me that it's probably a mistake to view a home EV charger (EVSE) as a lifetime investment. I mean, the best gas grills cost more than $400, and no one expects them to last forever. It does seem unlikely that a 50 Amp, 240 Volt outlet (the more costly part of the investment) in a single-family home will become obsolete within one person's lifetime.
Last edited by crefwatch on Thu May 26, 2022 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
furiouschads
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by furiouschads »

No need for a smart charger. We have a last-generation Egolf. We can program it to start at X time to Y level of charge, or lots of other options. The ID4 will have the same or more.

Consider looking for used Clipper Creek EVSEs. We got a good price for a plug-in 240 model. Works fine.
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billaster
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by billaster »

The first thing you need to do is check the rating of your electrical service panel. If it is 200 amps, you likely have no problem installing a 14-50 outlet.

If it is a 100 amp panel, you may not be able to install the 60 amp breaker required for a 14-50 plug. You need to have an electrician do a load analysis for your house to determine the maximum amps you can pull for an EVSE. You might have to install a lower amperage rated plug. That's not really a problem because all EVSE's can be manually configured to limit their amperage to the limits of the installed circuit. It just means that your car will charge more slowly, but still several times faster than a 120V outlet.
Topic Author
m@ver1ck
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Re: ID4 - EV Home charger recommendations?

Post by m@ver1ck »

Thanks! I’ve asked my electrician for a quote and waiting to hear from him.
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