Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

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CenTexan
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Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by CenTexan »

It appears most of our future travel experiences will be land-based (driving) in North America.

What have you found to be an ideal vehicle (type, brand, model, etc.) for taking road trips?

We presently have a 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Limited mini-van and while we love the convenience/utility of a van, the interior noise level is higher than desired, especially as the vehicle is approaching 6 years of age. And while it is a decent ride, I think we could improve on suspension comfort.

Suggestions?
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by sailaway »

It is my understanding that your current vehicle is considered a quiet ride. To improve, you might have to move up to luxury brands, although it looks like the newest models do offer active noise cancelling.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by rob »

If your happy with a van otherwise, I would just buy the Honda version.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by Normchad »

Interesting. I was going to 100% recommend a minivan, and the Honda. But you already have something very similar to that.

Like you, I really want a very quiet interior. From reviews I’ve read, people really like the Pacifica. So I. Guessing the Honda Odyssey isn’t going to be enough much quieter to meet your needs.

So for you, I’m going to recommend a Lexus RX350. Lexus spends money to minimize interior noise I believe.

If you want to try a cheap solution first, a new set of tires might really help. Some are noisers than others, by a wide margin.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by runninginvestor »

Would better tires help? Some furl efficient tires on my Prius have really upped the cabin noise level.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by onourway »

Yeah you already own one of the best touring vehicles made which should be quiet. I’d look to tires, wind noise due to added accessories or a damaged window or door seal, etc.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by HMSVictory »

Lexus. If you want an SUV than a RX350 and if you want a sedan a ES350.

Both are extremely quiet and if you go with a hyrbid will get close to 40mpg.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

It depends on your needs and how much discomfort or poor handling you'll accept.

I have a recent back injury that has sent me out looking for a new car with a better, more comfortable ride. I'm not a mini van or SUV guy and don't need one, so I guess it matters if you have to take everything you own with you or if you can do just fine with a normal trunk.

I found that out of our own vehicles (4 of mine, 2 of my sons), my wife's Subaru Legacy Limited hurts me the least. We went out to my mom's for mothers day and I drove her Legacy Premium (cloth seats rather than leather and 17" wheels rather than 18") and it hurt even less. What beat them all was a test drive in a new Cadillac CT4. I haven't driven the Lexus or Avalon choices, but have seen that they tend to be way more expensive. I do like that a sedan is aerodynamically far better than a brick of a vehicle like an SUV or van. I guess that's my 2 cents worth. I would absolutely recommend test driving.
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CenTexan
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by CenTexan »

OP here.

Thanks for replies so far.

1. Yes - the Pacifica we have has active noise cancellation. Guess it works some, would like more.
2. Idea of tire noise is very apropos.
3. Had a Genesis for a few years and it was VERY quiet, but the ride was terrible.
4. Test drive is a definite - a LONG test drive is definite.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by hunoraut »

Not impressed at all with RX350 in our extended family. Doesnt feel particularly luxurious, and the entertainment UI is absurdly poor for a japanese make.

I’d look at Volvo cross country wagon. Best seats and safety in the business. Cargo capacity, and high clearance for occasional off-road or poor-road trek, without the poor dynamics and wasteful size of SUV.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by JPM »

Had a 2022 MDX loaner last week while my old Acura was being serviced. Very quiet, very nice smooth ride and great handling for a big SUV with the SuperHandling AllWheelDrive feature. Kind of underpowered in the version I had compared to what I'm used to and mpg is terrible, 17 range. But if mileage and price are of limited concern and quiet and comfort on long trips is the overriding goal, MDX is good. I have not driven a GX460 but that or the Rx350 Lexus are probably good with a little less finesse in handling and a little better reliability than the comparable Acuras. Similar to comparable Toyotas and Hondas. For long road trips to see our out-of-state kids, we rented a 2021 Suburban last year and those are great on the highway but no fun to park. If I were retiring and we were planning more than 2 annual road trips as an older couple, I would probably opt for the comfort of the Suburban or the MDX. But for economy in an all-purpose vehicle, it's hard to beat a hybrid minivan.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by firebirdparts »

I suspect all the Volvo models are going to have a harsher ride than the Pacifica. You may find otherwise.

For sure pure moving-around as a means of dealing with touring fatigue, i think the minivan is a big plus. The uglier the better. To me, a crossover is just not comparable. Lexus doesn't make one. The quiet in a Lexus impresses me, but I'm sure different models are different on that. Toyota makes/made a half dozen minivans, but it looks like only the Sienna is available in the USA. There is a big console in it which diminishes the reasons you'd want it, but they do offer a heck of a 2nd row seat in that.
Last edited by firebirdparts on Sun May 15, 2022 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by quietseas »

There's a lot of chatter on the internet about 2017 Pacifica suspension upgrades and issues. I'll let you search for yourself and see if any describe your experience.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by Parkinglotracer »

We have a Sienna mini van and Sirius radio to noise cancel - great ride but don’t know how it would be compared to what you have now. We have a 10 year old Lexus ES and it rides great.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by lazydavid »

Number and size of passengers, as well as quantity of luggage, are key variables that you did not include.

In general, the Pacifica is a good road trip vehicle, as others have noted you may want to pay attention to whether the noise you're hearing is tire, road, or wind noise and perhaps a small investment can improve that.

If you do opt for a replacement, in general within a given size/quality class sedans will ride smoother and quieter than CUVs, with Minivans being closer to sedans in that regard. In that vein, the Mercedes S-Class is probably the ultimate road-trip-mobile, though obviously it's more than a touch pricey.

So if the number of seats would meet your needs, my first suggestion would be a sedan in the premium/luxury class. Something like a Lexus ES or a Genesis G80. If a large CUV is indicated, the Audi Q7, BMW X7, and Mercedes GLS ride comfortably and extremely quiet. Lower-cost options would be something like the upper-trim Hyundai Pallisade/Kia Telluride (or the smaller Santa Fe/Sorrento twins), which are far closer to the luxury class than their price would indicate.

That aside, full-size pickups in their premium trims are way more comfortable and quieter than you'd think. Some of the top trims even have air ride, generally only found on flagship luxury sedans. And obviously there's a TON of space for people and gear. Seems crazy, but something like a Ram Limited rides nearly as well as an S-Class. Way better than all but the most expensive luxury CUVs.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by Ricola »

Back when people desired smooth quiet cars, models like Cadillac, Buick, Chevy Caprice, Lincolns were the best knowm for those qualities. I am referring to older models, newer version of these are all following the same current trend for sporty performance and racing looks.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by livesoft »

I am told that a boxer-style engine has less vibration than V-6. Of course, you are looking at electric now for a smooth quiet ride, correct?
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by vfinx »

BMW X5 45e or 530e. A partially electrified car where you can spend a lot of time cruising on battery makes for a very quiet experience. And unlike pure EVs like Teslas which have to scrimp on sound deadening to reduce weight, these will offer proper road/impact/wind noise suppression as well. From a refinement standpoint, this class of vehicle (luxury plug in hybrid) does well.

I will say though that noise comfort is subjective and measurements like decibels are not very useful. In my opinion, the Germans are still a cut above in this regard. A Lexus ES has worse (but still good) noise comfort than a 5 Series for example, to my ear. You’ll have to test for yourself though.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by adamthesmythe »

It's all about compromises, isn't it?

My last 3 vehicles have been crossovers. I liked the driving position, gas mileage, vehicle cost, and interior space. I drive to the grocery store and take (often long) excursions, no commuting and no city driving.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by HawkeyePierce »

I'd consider a Subaru Outback.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by 02nz »

vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 12:50 pm BMW X5 45e or 530e. A partially electrified car where you can spend a lot of time cruising on battery makes for a very quiet experience ...
LOL "a lot of time" - the X5 45e has 31 miles of EPA-rated electric range, the 530e just 21 miles, meaning you'll be cruising for about 15-20 minutes before the battery runs out and the engine turns on. Great if your daily commute is within that EV range, but a very odd recommendation for long-distance touring.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by Watty »

lazydavid wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 12:06 pm Number and size of passengers, as well as quantity of luggage, are key variables that you did not include.
+1

And ground clearance requirements if you will be doing things like driving on gravel roads to get to a trailhead. Some of the electric and Hybrid cars don't have a lot of ground clearance.

If you are older then you might also consider that you might be at the point where no car will be comfortable of 10 hours of driving now and plan on driving shorter distances each day.

When reading online reviews or posts keep in mind that the trim level of the car can make a big difference since higher trim levels often have better seats.
Last edited by Watty on Sun May 15, 2022 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by Candor »

The Kia Telluride is getting very good reviews and is supposed to have one of the best low cabin noise ratings in current SUV's.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by vfinx »

02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 1:52 pm
vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 12:50 pm BMW X5 45e or 530e. A partially electrified car where you can spend a lot of time cruising on battery makes for a very quiet experience ...
LOL "a lot of time" - the X5 45e has 31 miles of EPA-rated electric range, the 530e just 21 miles, meaning you'll be cruising for about 15-20 minutes before the battery runs out and the engine turns on. Great if your daily commute is within that EV range, but a very odd recommendation for long-distance touring.
That’s an over simplification of how plug-in hybrids work. On a hundred mile trip, you will likely spend much much more than 21 percent of the time in vehicle, and more than 21% of distance traveled, on battery. When depleted the vehicle will behave more like a conventional hybrid, which still offers a lot of refinement benefits. There’s a reason why the Lexus 300h has a cult following, even by the non-hypermilers.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by noco-hawkeye »

Hyundai Ionic 5

It's an EV which will be very quiet. It also looks to have a nice softer ride. It can charge very fast, almost competitive with a gas pit stop.

I have the Kia version and it is very quiet and rides / handles very well.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by 02nz »

vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:12 pm
02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 1:52 pm
vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 12:50 pm BMW X5 45e or 530e. A partially electrified car where you can spend a lot of time cruising on battery makes for a very quiet experience ...
LOL "a lot of time" - the X5 45e has 31 miles of EPA-rated electric range, the 530e just 21 miles, meaning you'll be cruising for about 15-20 minutes before the battery runs out and the engine turns on. Great if your daily commute is within that EV range, but a very odd recommendation for long-distance touring.
That’s an over simplification of how plug-in hybrids work. On a hundred mile trip, you will likely spend much much more than 21 percent of the time in vehicle, and more than 21% of distance traveled, on battery. When depleted the vehicle will behave more like a conventional hybrid, which still offers a lot of refinement benefits. There’s a reason why the Lexus 300h has a cult following, even by the non-hypermilers.
I know how plug-in hybrids work, I owned one for three years. They are great as commuter vehicles and the occasional roadtrip, but for the OP's use case - primarily long-distance cruising - they are the worst of both worlds. OP is better off getting either get a regular ICE or traditional hybrid, or a pure BEV if the charging infrastructure is suitable.

BTW - you are correct that when depleted a plug-in acts like a conventional hybrid, but this only delivers a benefit if making use of regen braking. Driving at constant highway speeds, hybrids have little opportunity to use regen braking and thus deliver almost no benefit in fuel economy, or for that matter quietness. The RX Hybrid you cite delivers 28 MPG on the highway - basically indistinguishable from the regular RX's 27 MPG.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by vfinx »

02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:21 pm
vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:12 pm
02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 1:52 pm
vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 12:50 pm BMW X5 45e or 530e. A partially electrified car where you can spend a lot of time cruising on battery makes for a very quiet experience ...
LOL "a lot of time" - the X5 45e has 31 miles of EPA-rated electric range, the 530e just 21 miles, meaning you'll be cruising for about 15-20 minutes before the battery runs out and the engine turns on. Great if your daily commute is within that EV range, but a very odd recommendation for long-distance touring.
That’s an over simplification of how plug-in hybrids work. On a hundred mile trip, you will likely spend much much more than 21 percent of the time in vehicle, and more than 21% of distance traveled, on battery. When depleted the vehicle will behave more like a conventional hybrid, which still offers a lot of refinement benefits. There’s a reason why the Lexus 300h has a cult following, even by the non-hypermilers.
I know how plug-in hybrids work, I owned one for three years. They are great as commuter vehicles, but for primarily long-distance cruising, either get a regular ICE or traditional hybrid, or a pure BEV if the charging network works for you.
If you know how they work, then the intentional mischaracterization is odd. I have had a great experience with plug-in hybrids even on long trips where we don’t bother with dedicated charging. If the Germans produced a conventional hybrid, I’d consider it, but they don’t.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by NYCaviator »

CenTexan wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 10:23 am We presently have a 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Limited mini-van
Your van is 6 years old; does it have mechanical issues or high mileage? Does the noise really bother you that much, or do you just want a new car?

I ask that because I doubt you are going to find a car that is noticeably quieter than what you've got (you already have one of the quietest cars AND active noise cancellation), and this is a horrible time to buy a car unless you NEED one, so you'd likely be wasting your money and overpaying on a car that's just as noisy as what you've got.

If you are set on getting a new car, what's your budget? You can step up into Range Rover / Mercedes GLS territory and get an incrementally quieter car, but you'll be paying a lot more than what you paid for a Pacifica. Even in a higher-end BMW, road noise is very noticeable to me. Most new ICE cars (regardless of price or brand) are louder, because of how they are made these days. Manufacturers are using lighter materials, low rolling resistance tires, smaller/more efficient (i.e. louder) engines, etc. Electric is the way to go if you want quiet, but that's not an option for road trips.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by BatBuckeye »

One set of tires I bought quite a while ago were very noisy. They were high mileage but cheap and fit my budget.
Soon as I got on the highway I knew I made a mistake. Now I always specify low noise when buying tires.
OP can probably do a search on make and model of tires and noise rating.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by snackdog »

Low noise, good ride and comfort = Lexus.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by Yarlonkol12 »

Have you tried a newish honda minivan? I'm not sure if the Pacifica is on the same level
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by 02nz »

vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:34 pm
02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:21 pm
vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:12 pm
02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 1:52 pm
vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 12:50 pm BMW X5 45e or 530e. A partially electrified car where you can spend a lot of time cruising on battery makes for a very quiet experience ...
LOL "a lot of time" - the X5 45e has 31 miles of EPA-rated electric range, the 530e just 21 miles, meaning you'll be cruising for about 15-20 minutes before the battery runs out and the engine turns on. Great if your daily commute is within that EV range, but a very odd recommendation for long-distance touring.
That’s an over simplification of how plug-in hybrids work. On a hundred mile trip, you will likely spend much much more than 21 percent of the time in vehicle, and more than 21% of distance traveled, on battery. When depleted the vehicle will behave more like a conventional hybrid, which still offers a lot of refinement benefits. There’s a reason why the Lexus 300h has a cult following, even by the non-hypermilers.
I know how plug-in hybrids work, I owned one for three years. They are great as commuter vehicles, but for primarily long-distance cruising, either get a regular ICE or traditional hybrid, or a pure BEV if the charging network works for you.
If you know how they work, then the intentional mischaracterization is odd. I have had a great experience with plug-in hybrids even on long trips where we don’t bother with dedicated charging. If the Germans produced a conventional hybrid, I’d consider it, but they don’t.
Please point out where I've "mischaracterized" how plug-in hybrids work, specifically as it relates to the OP's request for a recommendation of a vehicle for long-distance touring - what advantages do they have over a conventional hybrid for that use case?
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by PoppyA »

I’ve done cross country, many times, in a variety of vehicles: Subaru Outback, VW Jetta, Chevy Tahoe, Late model Corvette….just to name a few. By far….by very far, the most comfortable is the corvette. Yes, 80 year olds can get in & out of them. Yes, it gets the best gas mileage of all the aforementioned vehicles. Yes, traveling light (back pack to take into hotels every night, small duffle for more clothes) adds to the pleasure of the trip. I can pack strategically for an all weather trip with ease.

Great, not good, seats are key.

As a bonus, Chevy dealers are located all over North America.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by vfinx »

02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 4:03 pm
vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:34 pm
02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:21 pm
vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:12 pm
02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 1:52 pm

LOL "a lot of time" - the X5 45e has 31 miles of EPA-rated electric range, the 530e just 21 miles, meaning you'll be cruising for about 15-20 minutes before the battery runs out and the engine turns on. Great if your daily commute is within that EV range, but a very odd recommendation for long-distance touring.
That’s an over simplification of how plug-in hybrids work. On a hundred mile trip, you will likely spend much much more than 21 percent of the time in vehicle, and more than 21% of distance traveled, on battery. When depleted the vehicle will behave more like a conventional hybrid, which still offers a lot of refinement benefits. There’s a reason why the Lexus 300h has a cult following, even by the non-hypermilers.
I know how plug-in hybrids work, I owned one for three years. They are great as commuter vehicles, but for primarily long-distance cruising, either get a regular ICE or traditional hybrid, or a pure BEV if the charging network works for you.
If you know how they work, then the intentional mischaracterization is odd. I have had a great experience with plug-in hybrids even on long trips where we don’t bother with dedicated charging. If the Germans produced a conventional hybrid, I’d consider it, but they don’t.
Please point out where I've "mischaracterized" how plug-in hybrids work, specifically as it relates to the OP's request for a recommendation of a vehicle for long-distance touring - what advantages do they have over a conventional hybrid or BEV for that use case?
OP's request is to solve a noise problem. I've stated my subjective opinion that the Germans currently lead in quietness. For long distance touring specifically, I would likely prefer a conventional hybrid (assuming it's cheaper), but they don't offer it. Hence my recommendations for those plug-ins. In my experience, we still spend "a lot of time" on battery power even on trips longer than its EPA range, and the overall experience is still very smooth. What is sacrificed when the battery is mostly depleted and the car operates in conventional hybrid mode, is a bit of power, not refinement. When the engine does kick on, it's seamless (sometimes can't even tell unless I look at the indicator) and runs at low RPM because the electric motor still fills in a lot of the power band. It also recharges the (admittedly tiny) ~12KWh battery surprisingly quickly.

As to whether plug-in hybrids hold any advantages over BEVs for long distance touring, that just leads to the tired debate about gas vs electric. Zero interest in converting this thread into that, but I would certainly be happy with the IX if it suited my travel habits. I haven't test-driven it but from the reviews so far, it seems like BMW did not cut corners with refinement on that model.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by 02nz »

vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 5:16 pm
02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 4:03 pm
vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:34 pm
02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:21 pm
vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:12 pm

That’s an over simplification of how plug-in hybrids work. On a hundred mile trip, you will likely spend much much more than 21 percent of the time in vehicle, and more than 21% of distance traveled, on battery. When depleted the vehicle will behave more like a conventional hybrid, which still offers a lot of refinement benefits. There’s a reason why the Lexus 300h has a cult following, even by the non-hypermilers.
I know how plug-in hybrids work, I owned one for three years. They are great as commuter vehicles, but for primarily long-distance cruising, either get a regular ICE or traditional hybrid, or a pure BEV if the charging network works for you.
If you know how they work, then the intentional mischaracterization is odd. I have had a great experience with plug-in hybrids even on long trips where we don’t bother with dedicated charging. If the Germans produced a conventional hybrid, I’d consider it, but they don’t.
Please point out where I've "mischaracterized" how plug-in hybrids work, specifically as it relates to the OP's request for a recommendation of a vehicle for long-distance touring - what advantages do they have over a conventional hybrid or BEV for that use case?
OP's request is to solve a noise problem. I've stated my subjective opinion that the Germans currently lead in quietness. For long distance touring specifically, I would likely prefer a conventional hybrid (assuming it's cheaper), but they don't offer it. Hence my recommendations for those plug-ins. In my experience, we still spend "a lot of time" on battery power even on trips longer than its EPA range, and the overall experience is still very smooth. What is sacrificed when the battery is mostly depleted and the car operates in conventional hybrid mode, is a bit of power, not refinement. When the engine does kick on, it's seamless (sometimes can't even tell unless I look at the indicator) and runs at low RPM because the electric motor still fills in a lot of the power band. It also recharges the (admittedly tiny) ~12KWh battery surprisingly quickly.

As to whether plug-in hybrids hold any advantages over BEVs for long distance touring, that just leads to the tired debate about gas vs electric. Zero interest in converting this thread into that, but I would certainly be happy with the IX if it suited my travel habits. I haven't test-driven it but from the reviews so far, it seems like BMW did not cut corners with refinement on that model.
Leaving aside why the German automakers choose not to sell conventional hybrids (which they absolutely do make) in the U.S. market, in highway cruise a plug-in hybrid will neither be significantly more efficient than the ICE equivalent (as the EPA figures show), nor more refined, once that little bit of EV range is used up. If you go downhill and regen, sure, it will be a little bit quieter for a little while, while the load on the engine is lightened, but we're talking several seconds here.

If you want the benefits that an EV has in NVH (noise, vibration, and harshness), a plug-in that goes electric for 20-30 miles (and then lightens the load on the engine ever so slightly after regenerating) just isn't going to make much difference on a 500-mile trip, much less a cross-country one.
Last edited by 02nz on Sun May 15, 2022 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
vfinx
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by vfinx »

02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 5:33 pm
vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 5:16 pm
02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 4:03 pm
vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:34 pm
02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:21 pm

I know how plug-in hybrids work, I owned one for three years. They are great as commuter vehicles, but for primarily long-distance cruising, either get a regular ICE or traditional hybrid, or a pure BEV if the charging network works for you.
If you know how they work, then the intentional mischaracterization is odd. I have had a great experience with plug-in hybrids even on long trips where we don’t bother with dedicated charging. If the Germans produced a conventional hybrid, I’d consider it, but they don’t.
Please point out where I've "mischaracterized" how plug-in hybrids work, specifically as it relates to the OP's request for a recommendation of a vehicle for long-distance touring - what advantages do they have over a conventional hybrid or BEV for that use case?
OP's request is to solve a noise problem. I've stated my subjective opinion that the Germans currently lead in quietness. For long distance touring specifically, I would likely prefer a conventional hybrid (assuming it's cheaper), but they don't offer it. Hence my recommendations for those plug-ins. In my experience, we still spend "a lot of time" on battery power even on trips longer than its EPA range, and the overall experience is still very smooth. What is sacrificed when the battery is mostly depleted and the car operates in conventional hybrid mode, is a bit of power, not refinement. When the engine does kick on, it's seamless (sometimes can't even tell unless I look at the indicator) and runs at low RPM because the electric motor still fills in a lot of the power band. It also recharges the (admittedly tiny) ~12KWh battery surprisingly quickly.

As to whether plug-in hybrids hold any advantages over BEVs for long distance touring, that just leads to the tired debate about gas vs electric. Zero interest in converting this thread into that, but I would certainly be happy with the IX if it suited my travel habits. I haven't test-driven it but from the reviews so far, it seems like BMW did not cut corners with refinement on that model.
Leaving aside why the German automakers choose not to sell conventional hybrids (which they absolutely do make) in the U.S. market, in highway cruise a plug-in hybrid will neither be significantly more efficient than the ICE equivalent (as the EPA figures show), nor more refined, once that little bit of EV range is used up. If you go downhill and regen, sure, it will be a little bit quieter for a little while, while the load on the engine is lightened, but we're talking several seconds here.

If you want the benefits that an EV has in NVH (noise, vibration, and harshness), a plug-in that goes electric for 20-30 miles (and then lightens the load on the engine ever so slightly after regenerating) just isn't going to make much difference on a 500-mile trip.
I agree on efficiency (and never made any claims otherwise), and disagree on refinement.
NYCaviator
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by NYCaviator »

vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 5:16 pm
02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 4:03 pm
vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:34 pm
02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:21 pm
vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:12 pm

That’s an over simplification of how plug-in hybrids work. On a hundred mile trip, you will likely spend much much more than 21 percent of the time in vehicle, and more than 21% of distance traveled, on battery. When depleted the vehicle will behave more like a conventional hybrid, which still offers a lot of refinement benefits. There’s a reason why the Lexus 300h has a cult following, even by the non-hypermilers.
I know how plug-in hybrids work, I owned one for three years. They are great as commuter vehicles, but for primarily long-distance cruising, either get a regular ICE or traditional hybrid, or a pure BEV if the charging network works for you.
If you know how they work, then the intentional mischaracterization is odd. I have had a great experience with plug-in hybrids even on long trips where we don’t bother with dedicated charging. If the Germans produced a conventional hybrid, I’d consider it, but they don’t.
Please point out where I've "mischaracterized" how plug-in hybrids work, specifically as it relates to the OP's request for a recommendation of a vehicle for long-distance touring - what advantages do they have over a conventional hybrid or BEV for that use case?
I've stated my subjective opinion that the Germans currently lead in quietness.
I respectfully disagree when it comes to BMW. :sharebeer If you've ever driven a late model with run flats, it's not very quiet. Even worse when its a performance model with ultra low profile tires. Mercedes and Audi are a bit better, but it really depends on what model/options.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by PoppyA »

“OP's request is to solve a noise problem.” Ummm, no.
vfinx
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by vfinx »

NYCaviator wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 6:07 pm
vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 5:16 pm
02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 4:03 pm
vfinx wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:34 pm
02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:21 pm

I know how plug-in hybrids work, I owned one for three years. They are great as commuter vehicles, but for primarily long-distance cruising, either get a regular ICE or traditional hybrid, or a pure BEV if the charging network works for you.
If you know how they work, then the intentional mischaracterization is odd. I have had a great experience with plug-in hybrids even on long trips where we don’t bother with dedicated charging. If the Germans produced a conventional hybrid, I’d consider it, but they don’t.
Please point out where I've "mischaracterized" how plug-in hybrids work, specifically as it relates to the OP's request for a recommendation of a vehicle for long-distance touring - what advantages do they have over a conventional hybrid or BEV for that use case?
I've stated my subjective opinion that the Germans currently lead in quietness.
I respectfully disagree when it comes to BMW. :sharebeer If you've ever driven a late model with run flats, it's not very quiet. Even worse when its a performance model with ultra low profile tires. Mercedes and Audi are a bit better, but it really depends on what model/options.
That's fair. I did switch mine to non-run-flats on day one. I must say though, that it was not as big a difference as I was expecting. Modern run-flats are much better than old ones in this regard apparently. Also, it seems you can now option a BMW without run-flats.
PoppyA wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 6:27 pm “OP's request is to solve a noise problem.” Ummm, no.
The original post says "We presently have a 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Limited mini-van and while we love the convenience/utility of a van, the interior noise level is higher than desired, especially as the vehicle is approaching 6 years of age."
Madbull
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by Madbull »

JPM wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 11:50 am Had a 2022 MDX loaner last week while my old Acura was being serviced. Very quiet, very nice smooth ride and great handling for a big SUV with the SuperHandling AllWheelDrive feature. Kind of underpowered in the version I had compared to what I'm used to and mpg is terrible, 17 range. But if mileage and price are of limited concern and quiet and comfort on long trips is the overriding goal, MDX is good. I have not driven a GX460 but that or the Rx350 Lexus are probably good with a little less finesse in handling and a little better reliability than the comparable Acuras. Similar to comparable Toyotas and Hondas. For long road trips to see our out-of-state kids, we rented a 2021 Suburban last year and those are great on the highway but no fun to park. If I were retiring and we were planning more than 2 annual road trips as an older couple, I would probably opt for the comfort of the Suburban or the MDX. But for economy in an all-purpose vehicle, it's hard to beat a hybrid minivan.
Depending upon size needs & budget, a slightly smaller Acura RDX would also be worth a test drive. ‘22 added additional noise dampening/glass vs prior years. (And simple conveniences that should been in the US market & not just our friends up north, like auto-fold mirrors, grr, lol). We have a ‘21 Advance, and it’s much quieter than I had anticipated. Yes it’s an ICE, & we’ve heard some have had MPG issues on older models, but we still get low 20s in our MY. Very smooth, plenty of tech for us in the Advance trim, and enough room for our needs, (especially if only for two, but even with adding my mom & her wheelchair we still have room for several multi-day bags).

We wanted an MDX, but couldn’t justify the price for our needs. The RDX was a great ‘compromise’ for us. We also cross-shopped the Lexus RX, Audi Q5/Q7 (rented a Q7 for four days via SilverCar), and Volvo XC60.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by livesoft »

hunoraut wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 11:36 am Not impressed at all with RX350 in our extended family. ...
Years ago I had a Lexus RX300. When my mom came to visit, she said, "Oh, your car is noisier than [brother-in-law's] Lexus."

So when the car was at the dealer for a free oil change, I told the service manager, "My mom was complaining about this RX-300 because it is lots noisier than my brother-in-law's Lexus. Can you make it quieter please?" They took off the inside door panels, stuffed them with sound deadening foam all at no charge and the car was definitely quieter.

So maybe the OP can just have soundproofing added to their Pacifica?
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by stoptothink »

livesoft wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 7:00 pm
hunoraut wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 11:36 am Not impressed at all with RX350 in our extended family. ...
Years ago I had a Lexus RX300. When my mom came to visit, she said, "Oh, your car is noisier than [brother-in-law's] Lexus."

So when the car was at the dealer for a free oil change, I told the service manager, "My mom was complaining about this RX-300 because it is lots noisier than my brother-in-law's Lexus. Can you make it quieter please?" They took off the inside door panels, stuffed them with sound deadening foam all at no charge and the car was definitely quieter.

So maybe the OP can just have soundproofing added to their Pacifica?
They absolutely can, anything that adds mass to the panels can reduce outside noise. Products like dynamat do work, but they can be a PITA to install and could cost a pretty penny if you have someone do it for you. I laid hundreds of feet of sound deadening material in cars in my teens and early 20's, as I was really into car audio; it's not fun.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by snackdog »

PoppyA wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 4:35 pm I’ve done cross country, many times, in a variety of vehicles: Subaru Outback, VW Jetta, Chevy Tahoe, Late model Corvette….just to name a few. By far….by very far, the most comfortable is the corvette. …

As a bonus, Chevy dealers are located all over North America.
In case of breakdown and need for parts and repair?
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by lazydavid »

Candor wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:10 pm The Kia Telluride is getting very good reviews and is supposed to have one of the best low cabin noise ratings in current SUV's.
I had one as a rental last week. It is quite an impressive vehicle. Not nearly as quiet as my Q7, but at literally half the price, I didn't expect it to be.
Yarlonkol12 wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 3:57 pm Have you tried a newish honda minivan? I'm not sure if the Pacifica is on the same level
The Pacifica is the top of the minivan class--though the brand-new Kia Carnival will absolutely give it a run for its money. It's a far better van than the Odyssey in every aspect other than reliability.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by PoppyA »

snackdog wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 10:40 pm
PoppyA wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 4:35 pm I’ve done cross country, many times, in a variety of vehicles: Subaru Outback, VW Jetta, Chevy Tahoe, Late model Corvette….just to name a few. By far….by very far, the most comfortable is the corvette. …

As a bonus, Chevy dealers are located all over North America.
In case of breakdown and need for parts and repair?
Yes.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by Valuethinker »

CenTexan wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 10:23 am It appears most of our future travel experiences will be land-based (driving) in North America.

What have you found to be an ideal vehicle (type, brand, model, etc.) for taking road trips?

We presently have a 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Limited mini-van and while we love the convenience/utility of a van, the interior noise level is higher than desired, especially as the vehicle is approaching 6 years of age. And while it is a decent ride, I think we could improve on suspension comfort.

Suggestions?
Look at Toyota, Honda & Subaru (and Lexus). They all make reliable cars, highly rated.

There shouldn't be any problem in getting these fixed most places in America, now. The dealer or local distributor will have the parts.

They all offer various models of Minivan or Crossover SUV.

I am a big fan of hybrids if you can get one - as protection against higher gas prices. Plug-ins seem to me to not be enough of an EV to justify it-- my neighbour likes his Mitsubishi, but does a lot of city driving.

Whereas in 3-5 years time I suspect EV charging won't be a big issue in most places, right now it seems to be. So I wouldn't suggest a pure EV for long distance travel.

Unfortunately you are likely to have to make (expensive) compromises on what car you actually get, due to the conditions in the auto market right now.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by JackoC »

02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 5:33 pm Leaving aside why the German automakers choose not to sell conventional hybrids (which they absolutely do make) in the U.S. market, in highway cruise a plug-in hybrid will neither be significantly more efficient than the ICE equivalent (as the EPA figures show), nor more refined, once that little bit of EV range is used up. If you go downhill and regen, sure, it will be a little bit quieter for a little while, while the load on the engine is lightened, but we're talking several seconds here.

If you want the benefits that an EV has in NVH (noise, vibration, and harshness), a plug-in that goes electric for 20-30 miles (and then lightens the load on the engine ever so slightly after regenerating) just isn't going to make much difference on a 500-mile trip, much less a cross-country one.
I agree. Hybrid v plug in hybrid v conventional ICE is a fine debate to have for a commuting and general use car. But for long trips hybrids (plug in or not) make little sense. You're paying at least something for more complicated system of little benefit in 300-500 mile/day driving (our road trip pace, typically) on fairly level ground. There could still be an efficiency kicker in all day driving in hilly areas where you shift from uphill to downhill frequently, from regenerative braking on the downhill segments, giving you more 'free' power on the next steep uphill segment. But, if you're climbing steadily for many miles (like in major mountain ranges) you can run out of battery to boost overall system hp on the steepest segments and end up with just the (typically underpowered) ICE component. Again if that's your commuting car and you're just taking it on vacation occasionally, fine, you'll get there. But I don't see the point if the main purpose of the car is road trips.

Passenger and cargo capacity requirement wasn't mentioned, nor any requirement for fun. Then again OP did ask what *we* would consider the ideal road trip car. Iteration 1 for us was BMW 328i, for two people with a fair amount of stuff (hiking gear, food from home, etc) on ca. 6k mile near-transcontinental and back trip. Versatile car, pretty quiet and comfortable in relaxed driving situations, pretty good in high performance driving on winding mountain roads, pretty good at two lane (total, as in you have to pull into the oncoming traffic lane) passing (with Dinan Stage 1 tune ~295hp v 245 stock official ~265 stock actual). It tolerated a ca. 40 mile drive on poor quality gravel roads across the Pawnee National Grassland in CO, but barely, had to back down half a mile to not go through a mud puddle I wasn't sure the car would make it out of :happy . Iteration 2: BMW M2, pair of 7k mile trips. Reasonably comfortable and quiet on most roads, but a bit trying at times on worst/loudest 10-15% of pavement, stiffer suspension and less sound insulation than 3 series. But very cool handling on winding mountain roads, a hard car to beat for fun in that situation, also faster in two lane passing. It was around the same weight but two door, smaller back seat and trunk for stuff: just enough room. We only took the M2 on fractional mile dirt and gravel roads as to trail heads. It was worrisome to be caught in unseasonable snow in high mountains with summer tires and RWD. Iteration 3 is coming soon: Porsche Macan S. The idea is to get best ride and quiet so far among those three, Macan's 'freak of engineering' handling ability for an SUV I hope will I perceive as fairly close to the M2, nor giving up a lot on two lane passing vs. the M2, plus more mobility in unseasonable snow and on gravel/dirt roads. And there should be enough room to lay our stuff out for easy access, not have to keep rummaging through it as when piled up in the M2.

We also once did a transcon trip in rented Ford Expedition. With a bigger party, fun trip overall, but I did most of the driving and handling of that vehicle really detracted from any driving fun aspect. We drove Pacific Coast Highway on that trip and later again with the M2, very different experiences to me: real chore with the big SUV, real blast with the M2.
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ram
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by ram »

I sold my 15 yr old Honda odyssey last year. That was our main touring vehicle for many years. Comfortable seats for 4 people and good cargo capacity.

Kids are now grown up and gone.

These days we mostly use our Lexus LS for touring. Much more quiet than odyssey. Adequate space for cargo of 2 people. Did a 4000 mile round trip over 3 weeks last summer as rental car was not available at the destination. Much better on the back than odyssey.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by Beehave »

Regarding tires and noise...

I recently purchased a set of Bridgestone Quiet-Tracs for one of two Camrys we have. The vehicles are rock solid reliable but have wind noise issues at interstate speeds and road noise on various surfaces. The Quiet-Tracs were advertised and as lower road noise through new technology. They are indeed very quiet on smooth asphalt, but otherwise completely unremarkable when it comes to noise on other surfaces. I also subsequently purchased a set of Michelin Primacy A/S for the other Camry because the Bridgestones had not cured the noise issue significantly and the Michelins had better handling ratings.

If noise is an issue, I'd suggest moving up to Lexus from Toyota model offerings if you are staying within the Toyota family. I'd definitely test drive any vehicle on varied surfaces and at interstate speeds for if significant travel is planned and noise is an issue. I purchased at a time when reliability and price seemed to be the main considerations and in hindsight would have upgraded at least one of the two to Lexus if a proper test drive showed the value.
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Re: Suggestions for a good touring vehicle - sedan, SUV, van?

Post by DavidW »

ram wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 6:47 pm I sold my 15 yr old Honda odyssey last year. That was our main touring vehicle for many years. Comfortable seats for 4 people and good cargo capacity.

Kids are now grown up and gone.

These days we mostly use our Lexus LS for touring. Much more quiet than odyssey. Adequate space for cargo of 2 people. Did a 4000 mile round trip over 3 weeks last summer as rental car was not available at the destination. Much better on the back than odyssey.
Interesting.... I am on and off looking at at an LS as I have back issues. I drove my wife's Avalon 2014 for a 3 hour trip and my back paid for it. I have heard that Lexus has gone with stiffer suspension rather than the softer ones in the early LS (LS400 & LS430). How is the ride level?

I test drove a LS430 and liked the quiet and feel of the car. Just hard to find a good used one...
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