Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
Guideline is adding a 0.08% fee for participants (was no aum, $8/month/employee paid by the employer). They're announcing this as an offset for now charging no fees for random services that regular account holders never use, so this is a fee hike for most participants. The company-side fees look to be remaining the same.
Their announcement says "software pricing model" which to me, means "a model where they were operating at a loss to gain users, then planned to later raise prices". Well, it's later.
You asked, we listened: an update to Guideline’s fees
JEFF ROSENBERGER, PHD
03.MAY.2021
Their announcement says "software pricing model" which to me, means "a model where they were operating at a loss to gain users, then planned to later raise prices". Well, it's later.
You asked, we listened: an update to Guideline’s fees
JEFF ROSENBERGER, PHD
03.MAY.2021
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
So they are moving it from employers who get a tax deduction to employees who don’t.
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
So, now the inevitable question: what/who should we change to if we're not happy with this? Any other providers offering a deal to move in light of this? Is guide line still better than those it directly competes with?
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Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
Goodness, it is a little annoying but the all in cost to own VTSAX is .12%
You are not going to find anything better in the 401k world IMO.
They have to make money. They are not transferring fees either, employers still pay participant fees.
You are not going to find anything better in the 401k world IMO.
They have to make money. They are not transferring fees either, employers still pay participant fees.
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
That matches the AUM fee charged by Employee Fiduciary.
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
thanks, this answers a few questions
yeah, it looks like they're still one of the best deals around
I was making a point about their saas-model "operate at a loss to buy market share" which is something to be aware of, although lock-in with a 401k provider isn't as bad as something like getting locked into capital gains in a fund that raises fees
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Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
My company's plan is with Guideline as well. I am very disappointed that they do not allow the employer to cover this AUM fee. I can understand needing to increase fees, but why require employees to pay this out of plan funds?
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Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
I realize no one likes extra fees, but in the realm of 401k plans we often see here on Bogleheads, this is one of the most acceptable to deal with.
Regards,
Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
can you rollover most of your funds into an IRA? that would mean no backdoor roth but a lower fee
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
I would love to trade you. I’ve got Great West with a 60 bps wrap fee.
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
Bait and switch. Hopefully, someone undercuts them soon.
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
+1retired@50 wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 5:14 pm I realize no one likes extra fees, but in the realm of 401k plans we often see here on Bogleheads, this is one of the most acceptable to deal with.
Regards,
Unless I messed up a decimal point that is $80 a year if you have a $100K balance. If they otherwise have good fund choices that may not be ideal but it is nothing to fret about.
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Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
Guideline does not allow for in-service rollovers to be in any of their plan documents.chrisdds98 wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 8:30 pm can you rollover most of your funds into an IRA? that would mean no backdoor roth but a lower fee
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Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
401GO is a fairly new platform, and is a bit rough around the edges compared to Guideline's interface, but offers Vanguard index funds, and is undercutting Guideline. They have a 0.07% AUM fee, but it can be born by the employer. My company's plan assets are 90% owned by company owner/family, so the company being able to pay & deduct the fee is desirable. Additionally, the employer's monthly headcount fee is lower, and has no base monthly fee. They also offer SIGNIFICANT flexibility in plan document design. Guideline is extremely rigid.
Both 401GO and Guideline are a 3(16) and 3(38) fiduciary.
If you have a large amount of employees/plan assets, Vanguard/Ascensus is a great choice. Vanguard's old 401k platform was mediocre, but since partnering with Ascensus it has become very good.
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
Thanks, I hadn't heard of 4012GO. Any thoughts about going with the basic plan to avoid the 0.07% fee? https://401go.com/pricing/Tamer Wurf wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 12:05 pm401GO is a fairly new platform, and is a bit rough around the edges compared to Guideline's interface, but offers Vanguard index funds, and is undercutting Guideline. They have a 0.07% AUM fee, but it can be born by the employer. My company's plan assets are 90% owned by company owner/family, so the company being able to pay & deduct the fee is desirable. Additionally, the employer's monthly headcount fee is lower, and has no base monthly fee. They also offer SIGNIFICANT flexibility in plan document design. Guideline is extremely rigid.
Both 401GO and Guideline are a 3(16) and 3(38) fiduciary.
If you have a large amount of employees/plan assets, Vanguard/Ascensus is a great choice. Vanguard's old 401k platform was mediocre, but since partnering with Ascensus it has become very good.
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Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
The basic plan is for new plans only. Do you have an existing plan? Their basic plan also doesn't have a 3(38) relationship, so you would still need fiduciary liability insurance for your retirement committee.TIAX wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 9:41 pmThanks, I hadn't heard of 4012GO. Any thoughts about going with the basic plan to avoid the 0.07% fee? https://401go.com/pricing/Tamer Wurf wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 12:05 pm401GO is a fairly new platform, and is a bit rough around the edges compared to Guideline's interface, but offers Vanguard index funds, and is undercutting Guideline. They have a 0.07% AUM fee, but it can be born by the employer. My company's plan assets are 90% owned by company owner/family, so the company being able to pay & deduct the fee is desirable. Additionally, the employer's monthly headcount fee is lower, and has no base monthly fee. They also offer SIGNIFICANT flexibility in plan document design. Guideline is extremely rigid.
Both 401GO and Guideline are a 3(16) and 3(38) fiduciary.
If you have a large amount of employees/plan assets, Vanguard/Ascensus is a great choice. Vanguard's old 401k platform was mediocre, but since partnering with Ascensus it has become very good.
Since our plan is rapidly growing (assets more than doubling every year), we decided to go with Vanguard/Ascensus.
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
That isn't too bad. As I posted last week, the company that bought the company that I work at has Principal Financial and they charge 0.36% aum so I am not happy about that (though even less happy they are moving the office/lab 40 miles away when I bought a house 4 miles from the current location).
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Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
Principal is awful. I helped my last company move their plan from Principal to Vangaurd/Ascensus, and they are significantly more happy with them, even on the administration side; especially with the help of a 3(21) advisor. Ask if you could sit on their retirement committee. Most companies are happy to add new members.sschoe2 wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 11:40 am That isn't too bad. As I posted last week, the company that bought the company that I work at has Principal Financial and they charge 0.36% aum so I am not happy about that (though even less happy they are moving the office/lab 40 miles away when I bought a house 4 miles from the current location).
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
Benefits are handled by the HR department. It is a sizable company. How would a Chemist get authority over benefits?Tamer Wurf wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 11:48 amAsk if you could sit on their retirement committee. Most companies are happy to add new members.sschoe2 wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 11:40 am That isn't too bad. As I posted last week, the company that bought the company that I work at has Principal Financial and they charge 0.36% aum so I am not happy about that (though even less happy they are moving the office/lab 40 miles away when I bought a house 4 miles from the current location).
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Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
For employee deferrals and designated roth contributions the law forbids in service rollovers unless the employee has reached age 59-1/2.chrisdds98 wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 8:30 pm can you rollover most of your funds into an IRA? that would mean no backdoor roth but a lower fee
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
My company went from Fidelity to Principal when we acquired, they are indeed awful. The overwhelming majority of funds offered had very high ERsTamer Wurf wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 11:48 amPrincipal is awful. I helped my last company move their plan from Principal to Vangaurd/Ascensus, and they are significantly more happy with them, even on the administration side; especially with the help of a 3(21) advisor. Ask if you could sit on their retirement committee. Most companies are happy to add new members.sschoe2 wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 11:40 am That isn't too bad. As I posted last week, the company that bought the company that I work at has Principal Financial and they charge 0.36% aum so I am not happy about that (though even less happy they are moving the office/lab 40 miles away when I bought a house 4 miles from the current location).
0.08% isn't actually too terrible, but certainly a step down from 0%.
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Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
If employer is 35% tax bracket, employer pays.08 *.65. Employee pays.08. Not only that, the tax growth on the.08 is lost forever.Northern Flicker wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 5:43 pmEmployees pay the AUM pretax in a trad 401K so the equivalent of a tax deduction.
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
They've actually increased the company fees somewhat as well. Overall a disappointing change.
Last edited by control on Mon May 31, 2021 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
Our company set up our first 401K with Guideline about 4 months ago. After they get your signed paperwork, the support is horrific, or non-existent. 3-4-5 days to get a reply, and I'm the company administrator. It's not acceptable, hopefully organizations will learn from Robinhoods recent fines.
Thanks, Lars
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
Ehh…IMO a 0.08% AUM fee for a 401(k) plan is not something to worry about as long as low cost index funds are available.
Coincidentally, my workplace’s 401(k) plan has a 0.08% AUM fee, but has Vanguard index funds available. I just invest in these Vanguard funds and the total fees (AUM + ER) is less than 0.2%
Coincidentally, my workplace’s 401(k) plan has a 0.08% AUM fee, but has Vanguard index funds available. I just invest in these Vanguard funds and the total fees (AUM + ER) is less than 0.2%
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
Hoping to get a quick response on this. How is Guideline performing on the customer service front?
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
2023 update: guideline removed all dfa funds and rolled over to substitutes. some of the dumped funds were crappy but some were decent. this feels like yet another profit-boosting measure
the one I'm most salty about is DFGEX->VGRLX. those funds simply aren't comparable (us/int to pure int, and dfa strategy vs. non-dfa), and they diverge hugely when charted
https://storage.googleapis.com/gl-publi ... 230427.pdf
the one I'm most salty about is DFGEX->VGRLX. those funds simply aren't comparable (us/int to pure int, and dfa strategy vs. non-dfa), and they diverge hugely when charted
https://storage.googleapis.com/gl-publi ... 230427.pdf
Re: Guideline 401k adds 0.08% aum fee
I suspect that an employer can cover a flat per participant fee but not an AUM wrap fee in cases where that would result in the company giving a larger "subsidy" to the highly-compensated employees as this could jeopardize the discrimination testing (even though the fee is ultimately just paying the flat admin costs of the plan).Tamer Wurf wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 7:58 pm My company's plan is with Guideline as well. I am very disappointed that they do not allow the employer to cover this AUM fee. I can understand needing to increase fees, but why require employees to pay this out of plan funds?