Selling a Time Share
- Fat-Tailed Contagion
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Selling a Time Share
I have a friend who bought a Time Share for $25,000 & it cost them $1,500 in annual costs.
They don't use it and want to dispose of it, even to the point of surrendering it for a tax loss?
Can anyone help me with the best way to go about trying to sell it?
Thank you.
They don't use it and want to dispose of it, even to the point of surrendering it for a tax loss?
Can anyone help me with the best way to go about trying to sell it?
Thank you.
“The intelligent investor is a realist who sells to optimists and buys from pessimists.” |
― Benjamin Graham, The Intelligent Investor (75/25 - 50/50 - 25/75)
- arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Selling a Time Share
https://clark.com/travel/how-to-get-rid-of-a-timeshare/
https://clark.com/travel/new-site-buyin ... imeshares/
https://clark.com/travel/new-site-buyin ... imeshares/
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Re: Selling a Time Share
Can you explain the theory on how your friend can get a tax loss benefit from surrendering the property?
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Re: Selling a Time Share
Look at Ebay for timeshares. There are a million of them even in nice l ocations (Hawaii eg) the owners are nearly giving away. Look at ebay for his property and see what they are selling for.
Re: Selling a Time Share
First, just be GLAD that it was a friend and not you. The only way I've heard of that people are able to unload these is to sell them on ebay for $1. I'm not sure if that is even possible in many cases. Other than that, I believe that dying and possibly bankruptcy are the only "opportunities" that I'm aware of. We heard reports of time share owners trying to leave them to their heirs, which seems like an awful thing to do to them and the executor.Fat-Tailed Contagion wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:13 pm I have a friend who bought a Time Share for $25,000 & it cost them $1,500 in annual costs.
They don't use it and want to dispose of it, even to the point of surrendering it for a tax loss?
Can anyone help me with the best way to go about trying to sell it?
Did you friend pay cash or is he/she also paying off a loan for the original $25K?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Re: Selling a Time Share
At best you list it for $1 on ebay or another site and pray. At worst you pay a company to get you out of the timeshare. There is no such thing as surrendering.
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Re: Selling a Time Share
Go to TUG bulleting board and post it in the bargain deals section as a giveaway. You MIGHT be able to dump it that way, depending on what timeshare it is.
- Fat-Tailed Contagion
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Re: Selling a Time Share
Paid Cash for it. So costs $1,500 per year in costs.FIREchief wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:42 pmFirst, just be GLAD that it was a friend and not you. The only way I've heard of that people are able to unload these is to sell them on ebay for $1. I'm not sure if that is even possible in many cases. Other than that, I believe that dying and possibly bankruptcy are the only "opportunities" that I'm aware of. We heard reports of time share owners trying to leave them to their heirs, which seems like an awful thing to do to them and the executor.Fat-Tailed Contagion wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:13 pm I have a friend who bought a Time Share for $25,000 & it cost them $1,500 in annual costs.
They don't use it and want to dispose of it, even to the point of surrendering it for a tax loss?
Can anyone help me with the best way to go about trying to sell it?
Did you friend pay cash or is he/she also paying off a loan for the original $25K?
“The intelligent investor is a realist who sells to optimists and buys from pessimists.” |
― Benjamin Graham, The Intelligent Investor (75/25 - 50/50 - 25/75)
Re: Selling a Time Share
Good luck! I soon learned that I couldn't sell my unwanted timeshare. I tried to give it to a charity - no thanks. I was fleeced by two "companies" that would take the timeshare off my hands by paying them several thousand dollars each and I would get $0 for the timeshare. I still had the timeshare and I was out several thousand. Finally I found a real company that got rid of it for me along with a couple thousand dollars.
Timeshares are the worst product on the face of the Earth. I refuse to stay at a Wyndham property anymore.
Timeshares are the worst product on the face of the Earth. I refuse to stay at a Wyndham property anymore.
"I was born with nothing and I have most of it left."
Re: Selling a Time Share
See if the property will take it back. Sometimes they will take them back for a nominal fee after you are current.
If not, tug is the right place to go to get advice. Do not pay a company a fee upfront.
If not, tug is the right place to go to get advice. Do not pay a company a fee upfront.
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Re: Selling a Time Share
Read the timeshare contract. My wife's had a surrender / deed back provision. I consider us lucky in that we could deed it back to Wyndham and be done with it.
- ResearchMed
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Re: Selling a Time Share
I keep reading about being saddled with a timeshare for life, with no way out, etc. (or so it often seems).TallBoy29er wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:18 pm Read the timeshare contract. My wife's had a surrender / deed back provision. I consider us lucky in that we could deed it back to Wyndham and be done with it.
What is the language in such a contract that means you can't relinquish it somehow?
This has always puzzled me.
And TallBoy29er, what is the language in yours that did allow you to "just hand it back"?
RM
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Re: Selling a Time Share
Hey ResearchMed. I think the unique thing about our situation is that we (the timeshare came with my wife when I married her ) had an explicit provision in the contract that stated we could deed the timeshare back to the seller (Wyndham), at our exclusive option. We received no money for it when we did so, but so be it. I don't recall of we had to pay a processing fee, but if we did, it was minimal.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:26 pmI keep reading about being saddled with a timeshare for life, with no way out, etc. (or so it often seems).TallBoy29er wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:18 pm Read the timeshare contract. My wife's had a surrender / deed back provision. I consider us lucky in that we could deed it back to Wyndham and be done with it.
What is the language in such a contract that means you can't relinquish it somehow?
This has always puzzled me.
And TallBoy29er, what is the language in yours that did allow you to "just hand it back"?
RM
I am guessing many do not have that provision in their agreements. Therefore, they have to find a sucker, er seller, on the open market. I am wondering if there may be other types of termination/surrender clauses in these contracts. Anecdotally, it doesn't seem that is the case.
Re: Selling a Time Share
It's not the language in the contract - it's the language that isn't in the contract.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:26 pm What is the language in such a contract that means you can't relinquish it somehow?
You don't have a right to walk away from the annual fees associated with your timeshare, unless something in the contract specifically allows it. Without that, you'll be required to pay the fees for the rest of your life.
This isn't just my wallet. It's an organizer, a memory and an old friend.
Re: Selling a Time Share
Someone who has nothing and is close to passing and who wants to do good for the world needs to offer up being a dumping ground for these things. Would make a good headline 'One of the most popular people in America passed last night, leaves 10,000 timeshares to no one'.
I am so thankful for the few threads recently on these leeches. There is one in the family, and I will be very informed when wills are executed in the not to distant future. I'll be ready to not have my name anywhere on a piece of paper.
Low cost investments and no timeshares, my lessons from this community.
I am so thankful for the few threads recently on these leeches. There is one in the family, and I will be very informed when wills are executed in the not to distant future. I'll be ready to not have my name anywhere on a piece of paper.
Low cost investments and no timeshares, my lessons from this community.
Re: Selling a Time Share
Following...may be this will help me correct my financial mistake made 20 years ago
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Re: Selling a Time Share
It really depends where the time share is. My parents owned a dozen weeks at a resort in Aruba and after my dad passed, my mom asked both my sister and me if we wanted any of the weeks, which we didn't. She sold every week at a profit. I get that this is quite unusual. But if your friend has a week at the same resort, they should go to the member's website and offer the week for sale there.
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Re: Selling a Time Share
NAVigator wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:43 pm Good luck! I soon learned that I couldn't sell my unwanted timeshare. I tried to give it to a charity - no thanks. I was fleeced by two "companies" that would take the timeshare off my hands by paying them several thousand dollars each and I would get $0 for the timeshare. I still had the timeshare and I was out several thousand. Finally I found a real company that got rid of it for me along with a couple thousand dollars.
Timeshares are the worst product on the face of the Earth. I refuse to stay at a Wyndham property anymore.
I went through the same situation as you over 10 years ago. I was able to transfer it to a relative and he never paid them a dime until they gave up. I still paid the transfer fee but that was much better than the annual fees.
Re: Selling a Time Share
Great advice. The main website for the Timeshare Users Group is https://tug2.com/ and their forums can be found at https://tugbbs.com/forums/. Depending on what the OP's friend owns, it may be worth nothing or it may have some value on the resale market. For example, if they owned a Disney timeshare, it might sell for more than they paid for it. They should be able to get an idea of whether their timeshare is worth anything from the folks on the TUG forums.Jim Baround wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:30 pm Go to TUG bulletin board and post it in the bargain deals section as a giveaway. You MIGHT be able to dump it that way, depending on what timeshare it is.
Never pay anyone up front for help selling your timeshare. A legitimate timeshare broker will list your timeshare at no cost and will provide paperwork spelling out the commission and fees they charge if (and only if) it sells.
Re: Selling a Time Share
My in-laws had a time share in St. Maarten that they got their money's worth after ~20 years of use - but towards the end, the annual fee began to get a little uncomfortably high. They got out of the contract when the property was wiped out by a hurricane a couple years ago and it wasn't insured.
Re: Selling a Time Share
Hah! There is another way (other than death and bankruptcy) to get out of a timeshare.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
- familythriftmd
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Re: Selling a Time Share
What if you just stop paying? I'm genuinely curious. Guess it depends on the contract, right?
- illumination
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Re: Selling a Time Share
I don't know if it's urban legend, but I've heard of outfits that do things like put it in the name of a homeless person.
One would think at this point, all 50 states would have basic consumer protections on something like this where a consumer could at some point quit. It gets close to being an indentured servant.
I have a friend that's an estate attorney, it's a common thing where she makes sure the person doesn't accept these as inheritance except in really limited circumstances.
VRBO and AirBnB have really taken the wind out of time shares, I bet 99% of the time, just getting to walk away and no longer paying the fees is a win and you should just take it.
One would think at this point, all 50 states would have basic consumer protections on something like this where a consumer could at some point quit. It gets close to being an indentured servant.
I have a friend that's an estate attorney, it's a common thing where she makes sure the person doesn't accept these as inheritance except in really limited circumstances.
VRBO and AirBnB have really taken the wind out of time shares, I bet 99% of the time, just getting to walk away and no longer paying the fees is a win and you should just take it.
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Re: Selling a Time Share
It's amazing to me that they can even sell new timeshares anymore when people are clamoring to give them away for free.
Re: Selling a Time Share
It goes to collections just like any other debt.familythriftmd wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:43 pm What if you just stop paying? I'm genuinely curious. Guess it depends on the contract, right?
Re: Selling a Time Share
"It sells for $1 on ebay" isn't likely to be a great sales pitch during these high pressure sales pitch their suckers/customers sit thru to get a free show/gift card/free stay/etc.alfaspider wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:24 pm It's amazing to me that they can even sell new timeshares anymore when people are clamoring to give them away for free.
Re: Selling a Time Share
It's not just the show tickets, VISA gift cards, match play in the casino and free lunch. It's also a special kind of entertainment/study in human nature. That said, although I've done two (and had fun both times), I doubt I'll do another one. I certainly wouldn't recommend the pitches to anybody who might be annoyed by such shenanigans.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
- CardinalRule
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Re: Selling a Time Share
Those ‘get rid of your timeshare’ radio advertisements seem to indicate that the problem can pass on to one’s heirs. I wonder if that is generally true.JoeRetire wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:41 amIt's not the language in the contract - it's the language that isn't in the contract.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:26 pm What is the language in such a contract that means you can't relinquish it somehow?
You don't have a right to walk away from the annual fees associated with your timeshare, unless something in the contract specifically allows it. Without that, you'll be required to pay the fees for the rest of your life.
Re: Selling a Time Share
I'm guessing more of a problem for an executor, if a timeshare claims that the estate has unfulfilled financial obligations. I would like to hear from folks who have insight into this. I'll "guess" that the prudent thing might be for the executor to keep up the maintenance payments until the sunset of the period for creditors to make claims against the estate.CardinalRule wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:47 pm Those ‘get rid of your timeshare’ radio advertisements seem to indicate that the problem can pass on to one’s heirs. I wonder if that is generally true.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
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Re: Selling a Time Share
We got a “good” deal on a hotel room in Hawaii to listen to the sales pitch once. Lost 3/4 of a day in Hawaii listening to the pitch in a drab sales office. A lot of sweeteners to sign THAT day. Back then, we did not sign five figure contracts without sleeping on it. Whew....FIREchief wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:03 pmIt's not just the show tickets, VISA gift cards, match play in the casino and free lunch. It's also a special kind of entertainment/study in human nature. That said, although I've done two (and had fun both times), I doubt I'll do another one. I certainly wouldn't recommend the pitches to anybody who might be annoyed by such shenanigans.
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Re: Selling a Time Share
One interesting legal theory I've encountered is that if you want to rid your heirs of the hassle of inheriting a timeshare is to leave that property in your will directly back to the timeshare company. So the Wyndham Vacation Club would inherit the worthless Wyndham timeshare. I've never seen this work in practice, but would be interested in hearing if anyone has. It could be a good recommendation for desperate and patient timeshare owners!
For the OP there is the possibility (albeit small) that the timeshare has value. Best to go to tug2.net or ebay to see if there's an active market in comparable properties/weeks. In some mountain communities in Colorado, there are some realtors that actually accept listings to sell timeshares such as fractionalspecialist.com. They must be for the most prized properties such as key weeks in ski towns.
For the OP there is the possibility (albeit small) that the timeshare has value. Best to go to tug2.net or ebay to see if there's an active market in comparable properties/weeks. In some mountain communities in Colorado, there are some realtors that actually accept listings to sell timeshares such as fractionalspecialist.com. They must be for the most prized properties such as key weeks in ski towns.
Re: Selling a Time Share
I would never mix up a good vacation in Hawaii with this kind of crap. Mine were both in Vegas when I was there on the cheap to just get out of dodge for a few days. Spending a couple hours in the afternoon on these things was just a break from the other forms of cheap entertainment.lazynovice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:40 pmWe got a “good” deal on a hotel room in Hawaii to listen to the sales pitch once. Lost 3/4 of a day in Hawaii listening to the pitch in a drab sales office. A lot of sweeteners to sign THAT day. Back then, we did not sign five figure contracts without sleeping on it. Whew....FIREchief wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:03 pmIt's not just the show tickets, VISA gift cards, match play in the casino and free lunch. It's also a special kind of entertainment/study in human nature. That said, although I've done two (and had fun both times), I doubt I'll do another one. I certainly wouldn't recommend the pitches to anybody who might be annoyed by such shenanigans.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Re: Selling a Time Share
That is hilarious!!! Thanks for sharing that. Of course, I'm guessing that makes the timeshare crooks your heirs, and they would likely not cooperate with anything that required the heirs collective agreement.BrainDrain wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:25 am One interesting legal theory I've encountered is that if you want to rid your heirs of the hassle of inheriting a timeshare is to leave that property in your will directly back to the timeshare company.
I'll likely never attend another pitch. Not because I am at risk of buying this crap, but just because I don't trust these thieves and they could make my life miserable just from the pitch. How?? I don't know. That's the point.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
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Re: Selling a Time Share
Seems like the kind of thing that worked well 30 years ago when you couldn't just google the going secondary market rate during a bathroom break. I suppose they were never sold to the savviest of consumers.Nate79 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:52 pm"It sells for $1 on ebay" isn't likely to be a great sales pitch during these high pressure sales pitch their suckers/customers sit thru to get a free show/gift card/free stay/etc.alfaspider wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:24 pm It's amazing to me that they can even sell new timeshares anymore when people are clamoring to give them away for free.
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Re: Selling a Time Share
We own two timeshare contracts through Disney Vacation Club (DVC). There is actually a pretty robust resale market for these contracts. From reading other posts, it sounds like this is the exception rather than the rule, but it is worth seeing what the resale market looks like for your friend's particular contract.
The other interesting thing in our contracts is that they have an expiration date (2054 I think?). After that date, the contract expires. This is both good and bad. The good part is that we or our heirs won't be saddled with annual maintenance fees in perpetuity if the bottom falls out of the resale market. The bad is that we lose the ability to use the timeshare should we want to continue with the contract (unless an extension is offered).
I like the idea of willing it back to the timeshare company, although I suppose they can always disclaim the inheritance!
The other interesting thing in our contracts is that they have an expiration date (2054 I think?). After that date, the contract expires. This is both good and bad. The good part is that we or our heirs won't be saddled with annual maintenance fees in perpetuity if the bottom falls out of the resale market. The bad is that we lose the ability to use the timeshare should we want to continue with the contract (unless an extension is offered).
I like the idea of willing it back to the timeshare company, although I suppose they can always disclaim the inheritance!
Re: Selling a Time Share
If the timeshare was left to no one, or all heirs disclaimed, I assume the company could go after the estate for the payments. What do they do? Calculate the price of a perpetuity that would would the annual payments and demand that much?
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either |
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- ResearchMed
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Re: Selling a Time Share
Wouldn't that lead to some obligation for the company at least to try to mitigate the losses?
That is, perhaps the company could sell the timeshare at a lower price, or just give it away (or even pay someone to take it) and thus have the chance for those annual payments to continue or start again?
However would they then calculate, in advance, those losses/expected losses?
And where in the hierarchy of creditors would the company be? Is this considered a secured debt or unsecured, in terms of obligation/payment order/distribution of estate/decedent?
As a non-lawyer, it seems to me that there may well be some litigation about this already...?
RM
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Re: Selling a Time Share
Any inheritance can always be disclaimed.CardinalRule wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:47 pmThose ‘get rid of your timeshare’ radio advertisements seem to indicate that the problem can pass on to one’s heirs. I wonder if that is generally true.JoeRetire wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:41 amIt's not the language in the contract - it's the language that isn't in the contract.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:26 pm What is the language in such a contract that means you can't relinquish it somehow?
You don't have a right to walk away from the annual fees associated with your timeshare, unless something in the contract specifically allows it. Without that, you'll be required to pay the fees for the rest of your life.
And I'm sure there are other ways to prevent an unwanted timeshare from being inherited.
So being dead allows you to relinquish it, I suppose.
This isn't just my wallet. It's an organizer, a memory and an old friend.
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Re: Selling a Time Share
Interesting question. I would like to hear from those who know more about estates.
Seems to me the estate would have an obligation to pay all CURRENT obligations before distributing and closing the estate. If the timeshare company came back with an obligation in the future- I suppose they could try to claw back from heirs? But which ones? and in what proportion? And would it even be worth the trouble?
Re: Selling a Time Share
That is why I assume they would want the stream of future payments, not just for one year. Or a cash settlement of equal value.
Someone who died with no assets hopefully would have stopped paying on the timeshare long before.
Someone who died with no assets hopefully would have stopped paying on the timeshare long before.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either |
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Re: Selling a Time Share
Interesting thread... I wonder if such timeshares can be sold to a legal entity such as an irrevocable trust. That would then make the annual payments the trust's responsibility. If the trust cannot afford the payments, then that's between the trust and the timeshare company...
IANAL.
IANAL.