Secure email provider

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renegade06
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Secure email provider

Post by renegade06 »

I’d like to ditch gmail due to big tech privacy concerns. Can anyone recommend the best secure email service? I am leaning toward ProtonMail, but was curious if anyone has had success with others.
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8foot7
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by 8foot7 »

Fastmail is worth a look.
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samsoes
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by samsoes »

I've been with Protonmail for a couple of years and have a paid subscription for most of that time. What clinched it for me was that a user can send a secure email even to a non-PM user (encrypted and password protected). I'm very satisfied.
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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by oldcomputerguy »

This topic is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum.
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HawkeyePierce
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by HawkeyePierce »

Gmail does not scan your emails for ads.

This concern is overblown.
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windaar
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by windaar »

Fastmail is secure, affordable, easy to use.
Nobody knows nothing.
bloom2708
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by bloom2708 »

I use Proton Mail for anything financial or important.
drummerboy
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by drummerboy »

Fastmail is fantastic. I've been using them for 15 years.

It supports many great features. Such as:
  • Secure 2-Factor Access including hardware keys such as Yubikey. Keeping your email account secure is the most important thing you can do to prevent other accounts from being compromised.
  • Fast mobile applications
  • Built-in Calendaring
  • Customizable SPAM filtering
  • Support for Labels or Folders for organizing
  • Custom "App Passwords" so that a 3rd party application only has access to specific features (e.g. SMTP outbound only)
  • Multiple aliases/personalities. Have multiple email addresses that allow you to send/receive.
  • DNS Hosting if you need it for a custom email domain.
Yes, it is a paid service. It's not free. But you get you pay for. In other words, a great product.
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jhfenton
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by jhfenton »

bloom2708 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:01 pm I use Proton Mail for anything financial or important.
Same for me. I use a few personal email addresses with a personal domain name that I control and use only with important, trusted institutions. Those get filtered in my ProtonMail account. (A side benefit is that I never get spam in my ProtonMail account.) I am a paid subscriber. (You have to be to use a custom email domain.)

I use my ancient gmail account for most non-financial things. It’s been “out there” for so long, that every spammer on the planet has it. (Gmail’s spam filter is pretty good. If anything, it flags too many things. I’m constantly fishing things that I’ve signed up for out of Spam.)

I limit my business with Google too, but at this point they get far more customer data from their other services than from gmail.
Nosirrah
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by Nosirrah »

ProtonMail, it’s the best
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JoMoney
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by JoMoney »

I like ProtonMail. The only better option I'm aware of would be to setup your own server.
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Topic Author
renegade06
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by renegade06 »

jhfenton wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:29 pm
bloom2708 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:01 pm I use Proton Mail for anything financial or important.
Same for me. I use a few personal email addresses with a personal domain name that I control and use only with important, trusted institutions. Those get filtered in my ProtonMail account. (A side benefit is that I never get spam in my ProtonMail account.) I am a paid subscriber. (You have to be to use a custom email domain.)

I use my ancient gmail account for most non-financial things. It’s been “out there” for so long, that every spammer on the planet has it. (Gmail’s spam filter is pretty good. If anything, it flags too many things. I’m constantly fishing things that I’ve signed up for out of Spam.)

I limit my business with Google too, but at this point they get far more customer data from their other services than from gmail.
Good to know! I also have a personal domain name which I don’t use. I will look into trying to to set that up.
TravelGeek
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by TravelGeek »

renegade06 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:22 pm I’d like to ditch gmail due to big tech privacy concerns. Can anyone recommend the best secure email service? I am leaning toward ProtonMail, but was curious if anyone has had success with others.
Check out the list here:

https://www.privacytools.io/providers/email/

Protonmail is #1 and what I will likely soon migrate to from an ISP that hosts my domain.
lazydavid
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by lazydavid »

Buy a Helm and be your own provider. Nothing more secure than email that only exists on hardware that you personally own and control, that no one has access to unless you explicitly provide it.

That said, Proton Mail does seem to do things the right way, so they’re a great option too.
zie
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by zie »

HawkeyePierce wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:52 pm Gmail does not scan your emails for ads.

This concern is overblown.
I agree with the technical bits, but disagree with your overall perspective.

Chicago a year ago told Google, give us everything you have on this suspect[0]. And as we know, Google keeps everything possible about you, not just emails.

Granted, they could do this with every provider. However, lots of providers are sane and don't keep literally everything possible. Google doesn't need to scan your emails for ads, they scan your emails to know more about you, and they use what they learn to then sell ads to you. So it's the round-about totally legal way to sell you more directed advertising. What Google knows about us, is in some ways more than our own mothers know about us.

They see every web search you ever do, every email you ever send or receive, plus every phone call you make, every thing you buy, every place you've ever taken your phone, everything you think about buying, every email or chat message you thought about sending, every website you visit(both directly and indirectly), etc, etc. They not only keep and store this information, they hire loads of PHD types to figure out what that all means, so they can better sell you ads.

There is a reason 86% of their revenue comes from selling ads and one of the largest companies ever on the planet, because they basically only have a single ad competitor left, Facebook.

0: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/cri ... story.html
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spacely
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by spacely »

hey.com is my recommendation!
surfstar
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by surfstar »

zie wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:00 pm
HawkeyePierce wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:52 pm Gmail does not scan your emails for ads.

This concern is overblown.
I agree with the technical bits, but disagree with your overall perspective.

Chicago a year ago told Google, give us everything you have on this suspect[0]. And as we know, Google keeps everything possible about you, not just emails.

Granted, they could do this with every provider. However, lots of providers are sane and don't keep literally everything possible. Google doesn't need to scan your emails for ads, they scan your emails to know more about you, and they use what they learn to then sell ads to you. So it's the round-about totally legal way to sell you more directed advertising. What Google knows about us, is in some ways more than our own mothers know about us.

They see every web search you ever do, every email you ever send or receive, plus every phone call you make, every thing you buy, every place you've ever taken your phone, everything you think about buying, every email or chat message you thought about sending, every website you visit(both directly and indirectly), etc, etc. They not only keep and store this information, they hire loads of PHD types to figure out what that all means, so they can better sell you ads.

There is a reason 86% of their revenue comes from selling ads and one of the largest companies ever on the planet, because they basically only have a single ad competitor left, Facebook.

0: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/cri ... story.html
Cool.

I don't think I'm special enough that anyone cares that much about me, though. I don't purchase items through online ads, either, and access tons of free content - youtube, podcasts, etc. I figure them selling ads using my data is how I 'pay'. *shrug*

If I ever did something heinous enough that the authorities need to know my history - again, good. Committing an act that results in a subpoena of my records means I don't deserve privacy.

If any of this disturbs users, they better not use Google, Apple, or any smart device, or Credit Cards, or a late model vehicle, or ... you get my drift.
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CardinalRule
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by CardinalRule »

I like using a client like Outlook (Office 2019 in my case) to handle multiple email accounts.

I have a ProtonMail account and was wondering if anyone has tried this ‘bridge’ to access ProtonMail through Thunderbird or Outlook, or whatever?

https://protonmail.com/bridge/outlook2019

I assume it would still be secure.
tibbitts
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by tibbitts »

This thread seems to be more about privacy than security, so maybe the OP can change the title. I'm not aware of any concerns about the security of "big tech" email vs. other ("small tech?") email.
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CardinalRule
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by CardinalRule »

HawkeyePierce wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:52 pm Gmail does not scan your emails for ads.

This concern is overblown.
That is true. Google did scan Gmail for ad purposes in the past, but this stopped several years ago.

tibbits, I agree that this discussion is more about privacy.
surfstar
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by surfstar »

Silence Dogood wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:57 am
surfstar wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:25 pm
Cool.

I don't think I'm special enough that anyone cares that much about me, though. I don't purchase items through online ads, either, and access tons of free content - youtube, podcasts, etc. I figure them selling ads using my data is how I 'pay'. *shrug*

If I ever did something heinous enough that the authorities need to know my history - again, good. Committing an act that results in a subpoena of my records means I don't deserve privacy.

If any of this disturbs users, they better not use Google, Apple, or any smart device, or Credit Cards, or a late model vehicle, or ... you get my drift.
Ah, the "nothing to hide" argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument

Given the choice between a more private service and a less private service, why not choose the more private option?
Convenience.
I'm aware that I'm paying for it with my privacy, and I weigh different options when making that decision. Example: I use Mint.com for budget/expense tracking. I don't link my retirement accounts, though, just credit cards. I don't see the benefit to providing them with that, whereas with the CCs, I do.
I've had a Gmail account for quite a while, always had Android phones. Haven't seen an issue worth switching over.
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Tejfyy
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by Tejfyy »

Check out https://tutanota.com/ as well as Proton.
lgs88
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by lgs88 »

I pay for ProtonMail (think it's around $40/year) and I'm satisfied with the service.
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blueman457
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by blueman457 »

Fastmail and Tutanota should be looked at in addition to protonmail.

Blue man
NYCaviator
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by NYCaviator »

Digging up an old thread I found in the search…

For Fastmail users, do you find it worth $50 a year? Anyone use Posteo for about $15 a year?

I’m trying to get away from Google entirely. I don’t like google tracking me across the web every time I sign in to check my Gmail. They may not be reading emails anymore, but just being logged in implicates major privacy concerns. That and someone sold my email so I’m getting tons of spam.
blueman457
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by blueman457 »

NYCaviator wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:34 pm Digging up an old thread I found in the search…

For Fastmail users, do you find it worth $50 a year? Anyone use Posteo for about $15 a year?

I’m trying to get away from Google entirely. I don’t like google tracking me across the web every time I sign in to check my Gmail. They may not be reading emails anymore, but just being logged in implicates major privacy concerns. That and someone sold my email so I’m getting tons of spam.
I find Fastmail worth it. One of the benefits for me is to able to create multiple email alias when I sign up for a new service. I can create an email "bogleheads123@fastmail.com" to have it forward to my actual email account. It help prevents marketing companies buying databases and tracking people via email address and phone numbers.

Blue Man 457
drummerboy
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by drummerboy »

blueman457 wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:03 pm
NYCaviator wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:34 pm Digging up an old thread I found in the search…

For Fastmail users, do you find it worth $50 a year? Anyone use Posteo for about $15 a year?

I’m trying to get away from Google entirely. I don’t like google tracking me across the web every time I sign in to check my Gmail. They may not be reading emails anymore, but just being logged in implicates major privacy concerns. That and someone sold my email so I’m getting tons of spam.
I find Fastmail worth it. One of the benefits for me is to able to create multiple email alias when I sign up for a new service. I can create an email "bogleheads123@fastmail.com" to have it forward to my actual email account. It help prevents marketing companies buying databases and tracking people via email address and phone numbers.

Blue Man 457
I agree, FastMail is worth the money. The alias feature, fast web client, calendar, contacts, custom spam management and most of all support for Yubikey is fantastic!
Bagels
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by Bagels »

renegade06 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:22 pm I’d like to ditch gmail due to big tech privacy concerns. Can anyone recommend the best secure email service? I am leaning toward ProtonMail, but was curious if anyone has had success with others.
From this thread, it seems like fastmail has come a long way since I signed up with them nearly two decades ago. (I never left them, but I let my account lie fallow for long enough that it was erased).

I have a paid subscription to protonmail ($48/year) and I like it.

• Before you ditch gmail, OP, know that protonmail is not very searchable. You can search dates, senders and subject titles, but not the body text. I guess that’s because it’s encrypted, but I hear they’re working on decrypting, searching and re-encrypting. It would just be slower than gmail.

• Protonmail offers their own tool (ProtonBridge?)(Import-Export) for downloading email, so you’d be able to search that offline.

• Also — and this is quite recent - if you log into the web version, you might stay logged in. Closing the tab on your browser might not be enough. You have to log out if you’re concerned about someone accessing email through your own computer.

• I use both the iOS and Android Protonmail apps and you can set PINs for these.

Someone mentioned hey.com. It’s not cheap, but if I were starting from scratch and didn’t already have so many addresses, I might consider using hey.com with friends and family.
lazydavid wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:54 pm Buy a Helm and be your own provider. Nothing more secure than email that only exists on hardware that you personally own and control, that no one has access to unless you explicitly provide it.
This looks fascinating! Thank you for posting it.
Last edited by Bagels on Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bac
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by bac »

Possible budget option for domain email: PurelyMail.com. It's a one-man start-up that's been in beta since its inception a couple of years ago, but in the month or so I've been testing it (more on that below) it's been reliable. Not a lot of bells and whistles, but it professes an emphasis on security, even allowing 2FA authentication with Yubikey. Price is $10 a YEAR, and there's even an option to trim that by opting for pricing based on resources used (storage, transfer, etc.). It's hosted at AWS.

I've been using Tuffmail for at least 15 years, but it's shutting down at the end of the year. It's been solid, offers lots of configuration options and was only $3.75 a quarter, so I'm sad to see it go. I found PurelyMail when I went looking for a replacment.

So far, I've been using PurelyMail for just one subdomain that I use to receive mail from various online accounts (i.e., megacorp@xyz.example.com). I could end up moving everything to PurelyMail in the next couple of months. Or, if I decide to go with something like FastMail or ProtonMail, I'll keep PurelyMail as a backup.
Second Round
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Re: Secure email provider

Post by Second Round »

NYCaviator wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:34 pm Digging up an old thread I found in the search…

For Fastmail users, do you find it worth $50 a year? Anyone use Posteo for about $15 a year?

I’m trying to get away from Google entirely. I don’t like google tracking me across the web every time I sign in to check my Gmail. They may not be reading emails anymore, but just being logged in implicates major privacy concerns. That and someone sold my email so I’m getting tons of spam.
Late to the party - sorry - but yes, I use Posteo, and have since early 2021. In the last 3/4 year or so there has been only one brief time that I noticed the mailserver was down. I can't remember for sure, but I think the outage was resolved in an hour or less.

Anyway, I prefer old fashioned POP over IMAP so that my email is NOT in the cloud and accessible from anywhere, anytime, on any device. Nope. I download it to my own hardware and deal with backing it up myself. I also considered Runbox, ProtonMail, and some others, and might migrate my remaining gmail to one of them at some point. But POP is a must for me, as long as it's still offered (and not all of them do, IIRC). As you might guess, I use an email client (Claws, on Linux Mint), so I don't stay logged into Google all day.

Runbox offered far more aliases, which can be useful in some circumstances. For instance, receiving commercial email from addresses you don't need to reply to. If you have to reply, however, it often all goes out the same core account, so your alias is sort of given up if you need 2-way communication with any of those senders to your alias email.

I do still think Gmail is very secure. I'm not crazy about their push to 2SV (their version of 2FA). If I have to do it, I'd get a hardware key like Nitrokey, Solokey, or maybe Yubikey. But that would be a big pain to have to use that thing every time I wanted to check my email (several times day). Logging into Vanguard or my banks, sure, I'd be good with that. I don't do those daily. But not just for Gmail.
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