Fed up With Flagship
Fed up With Flagship
Almost two years ago, people were annoyed at Vanguard for eliminated their Advantage service. Since then, they've also eliminated personal reps. Although there's still a special flagship support phone number, the wait times and rep cluelessness make me suspect it's all one big pot of customer service.
Are there any clear leaders, brokerage-wise, for customers with higher investment balances?
Are there any clear leaders, brokerage-wise, for customers with higher investment balances?
- arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
depends.Jimmbo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:48 pm Almost two years ago, people were annoyed at Vanguard for eliminated their Advantage service. Since then, they've also eliminated personal reps. Although there's still a special flagship support phone number, the wait times and rep cluelessness make me suspect it's all one big pot of customer service.
Are there any clear leaders, brokerage-wise, for customers with higher investment balances?
should there be two tiers of service, one for higher investment balances and one for people with lower investment balances?
what services are you actually looking for that you're not getting?
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions |
Re: Fed up With Flagship
Do you want better service at no additional cost, or do you want to pay for it?
I'd probably suggest Fidelity if you don't want to pay for a higher level of service.
I'd probably suggest Fidelity if you don't want to pay for a higher level of service.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
If you want the phone number for excellent customer service here it is: 800-435-4000
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That's the phone number for Schwab.
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That's the phone number for Schwab.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
of course there should be.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:50 pm
should there be two tiers of service, one for higher investment balances and one for people with lower investment balances?
Re: Fed up With Flagship
I want perqs, freebies, and extra consideration, generally. I'm not a luxe person, but flagship (while it existed as an actual thing) spoiled me.
I don't know if there SHOULD be such elitism, but I'll accept it if it's offered. So my question is: who offers it?
I don't know if there SHOULD be such elitism, but I'll accept it if it's offered. So my question is: who offers it?
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
I'm glad Vanguard isn't wasting money catering to making high net worth people feel special. If it means low fees I'm all for it. If you want to feel special, there are financial advisors who will do a very good job in exchange for a small percentage of your portfolio every year. Admittedly, free Turbotax would be nice.
Last edited by aristotelian on Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
I assume that Vanguard was doing this because higher balance customers generate more revenue. So there is no "right" to two tiers of service, but they saw a business reason to do it. This is kinda comparable to higher balance customers getting Admiral (or Institutional) levels of funds. I guess Vanguard doesn't see the need for all the benefits at Flagship any more (at least until you get to $5M). I haven't noticed any issues with Vanguard Flagship, loss of personal rep hasn't bothered me.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:50 pm should there be two tiers of service, one for higher investment balances and one for people with lower investment balances?
- zaboomafoozarg
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
Exactly, I dunno why I'd need "white glove" service if I had a few extra hundred grand invested. Or even an extra million.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:50 pm what services are you actually looking for that you're not getting?
Re: Fed up With Flagship
In my experience Fidelity Private Client Group rep's are top notch. Been dealing with them for two decades and never once got an uninformed rep in the PC group.Jimmbo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:48 pm Almost two years ago, people were annoyed at Vanguard for eliminated their Advantage service. Since then, they've also eliminated personal reps. Although there's still a special flagship support phone number, the wait times and rep cluelessness make me suspect it's all one big pot of customer service.
Are there any clear leaders, brokerage-wise, for customers with higher investment balances?
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience
Re: Fed up With Flagship
+1MikeG62 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:59 pmIn my experience Fidelity Private Client Group rep's are top notch. Been dealing with them for two decades and never once got an uninformed rep in the PC group.Jimmbo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:48 pm Almost two years ago, people were annoyed at Vanguard for eliminated their Advantage service. Since then, they've also eliminated personal reps. Although there's still a special flagship support phone number, the wait times and rep cluelessness make me suspect it's all one big pot of customer service.
Are there any clear leaders, brokerage-wise, for customers with higher investment balances?
Over the last three years I've moved $5m out of Vanguard were clearly no longer interested in my business. Fidelity Private Client Group has been a good experience so far, they do not try to upsell me at all and have people capable of answering my very occasional question.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
You know it is possible to get low fees and good service, right?aristotelian wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:55 pm I'm glad Vanguard isn't wasting money catering to making high net worth people feel special. If it means low fees I'm all for it. If you want to feel special, there are financial advisors who will do a very good job in exchange for a small percentage of your portfolio every year. Admittedly, free Turbotax would be nice.
I am not sure how Vanguard has managed to convince people that atrocious customer service is the price one has to pay for low cost investments, especially when even Vanguard ETFs (if one feels the need) are available at no cost at other brokerages that are willing to provide better customer service.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
This exactly!MikeG62 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:59 pmIn my experience Fidelity Private Client Group rep's are top notch. Been dealing with them for two decades and never once got an uninformed rep in the PC group.Jimmbo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:48 pm Almost two years ago, people were annoyed at Vanguard for eliminated their Advantage service. Since then, they've also eliminated personal reps. Although there's still a special flagship support phone number, the wait times and rep cluelessness make me suspect it's all one big pot of customer service.
Are there any clear leaders, brokerage-wise, for customers with higher investment balances?
I have had accounts at Fidelity and vanguard for a while. Eventually consolidated to Fidelity.
There is no comparison in customer service between the two. Fidelity PCG reps answer phone quickly, rarely any wait time at all (24/7!), and are extremely knowledgable. If they are unable to handle something, they have access to specialists that they will get on the line for you.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
A Yugo will provide everything a car will do. But, some people choose to drive nicer cars, especially if there is no additional cost.zaboomafoozarg wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:56 pmExactly, I dunno why I'd need "white glove" service if I had a few extra hundred grand invested. Or even an extra million.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:50 pm what services are you actually looking for that you're not getting?
Being able to call rep when it is convenient for me, not just during business hours during the week.
Getting a rep on the line without long wait times.
Getting knowledgeable reps every time someone answers the phone.
Oh yeah, Free TurboTax!
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
It is a bit of an ego thing. We all like to believe that we are unique and special. I can't speak for anyone else but I do like perks and I do like special treatment. At the same time, I recognize that companies have to keep costs in mind. I don't see this as an either/or thing. A human touch and a connection with an organization still counts with me. Others may not care about things that I care about and that is okay.zaboomafoozarg wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:56 pmExactly, I dunno why I'd need "white glove" service if I had a few extra hundred grand invested. Or even an extra million.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:50 pm what services are you actually looking for that you're not getting?
A fool and his money are good for business.
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
The Flagship level should be discontinued, or, at the very least, re-launched at the level that requires a undated dollar amount.
Maybe $5mil, as $1mil just isn't what it was however long ago the Flagship level was created.
Today a $1,000,000 portfolio isn't generating the different fees/ERs that were in play so many years ago.
Stick a fork in the current $1mil Flagship level, it should be done.
Maybe move the current Flagship Select to Flagship with $5mil minimum, keep those over $5mil as Flagship Select.
I won't be at a $5mil level anytime soon, if ever. OTOH, my current Flagship level doesn't offer me much. I can afford to buy tax software, and my portfolio is so slap-forehead simple I need no planning.
Broken Man 1999
Maybe $5mil, as $1mil just isn't what it was however long ago the Flagship level was created.
Today a $1,000,000 portfolio isn't generating the different fees/ERs that were in play so many years ago.
Stick a fork in the current $1mil Flagship level, it should be done.
Maybe move the current Flagship Select to Flagship with $5mil minimum, keep those over $5mil as Flagship Select.
I won't be at a $5mil level anytime soon, if ever. OTOH, my current Flagship level doesn't offer me much. I can afford to buy tax software, and my portfolio is so slap-forehead simple I need no planning.
Broken Man 1999
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
I moved to E*TRADE last year after thirty years at Vanguard and experiencing a decline in competence, service and benefits over the past few years. Unlike Fidelity and Schwab, they offer most Vanguard mutual funds with no transaction fees. I've been very pleased with the level of customer service at E*TRADE.
Here was a thread I posted on the subject: viewtopic.php?t=291658
Right now, E*TRADE has a generous bonus offer with $2,500 for a $1 million transfer. If you have more than $1 million, check with a local advisor as they can sometimes sweeten the pot. https://us.etrade.com/what-we-offer/how-it-works/promo
Here was a thread I posted on the subject: viewtopic.php?t=291658
Right now, E*TRADE has a generous bonus offer with $2,500 for a $1 million transfer. If you have more than $1 million, check with a local advisor as they can sometimes sweeten the pot. https://us.etrade.com/what-we-offer/how-it-works/promo
Re: Fed up With Flagship
I've been Flagship for quite a while and never asked for or received any of the things you mentioned. So I'm not seeing how Flagship could spoil anyone. Maybe you were Flagship Select, or whatever the (unnamed?) higher tier beyond that is? What actual cash value did you receive from Flagship? What is "extra consideration"?Jimmbo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:54 pm I want perqs, freebies, and extra consideration, generally. I'm not a luxe person, but flagship (while it existed as an actual thing) spoiled me.
I don't know if there SHOULD be such elitism, but I'll accept it if it's offered. So my question is: who offers it?
Re: Fed up With Flagship
Excellent point. Vanguard should simply adjust the minimum Flagship asset level to my current account balance at any given time. But seriously, I don't think I ever received any benefit from Flagship, so if they want to pick $10M or $100M or whatever level I'll never have, so be it.Broken Man 1999 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:26 pm The Flagship level should be discontinued, or, at the very least, re-launched at the level that requires a undated dollar amount.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
Count your blessings. I was forced to deal with Merrill Edge recently...
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
I've never needed my Flagship rep. I'm curious. What service(s) do you need?
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
When I log into Fidelity I see a nice picture of my Rep (whom I don't pay for). I don't know what the minimum balance is to get assigned a specific person but good to know I have one person I can call for any advise/questions. I have a similar amount sitting at Vanguard and don't seem to have a person. What I get with Vanguard is a splash screen (sometimes) trying to push me to PAS. So that's my guess as to why they don't provide you someone - want you to pay for PAS.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
People seem to keep making this a choice between low cost and good service, as if the only way to get low cost is to suffer through poor service. There seems to be plenty of other low cost providers that somehow manage to provide superior service.nedsaid wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:24 pmIt is a bit of an ego thing. We all like to believe that we are unique and special. I can't speak for anyone else but I do like perks and I do like special treatment. At the same time, I recognize that companies have to keep costs in mind. I don't see this as an either/or thing. A human touch and a connection with an organization still counts with me. Others may not care about things that I care about and that is okay.zaboomafoozarg wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:56 pmExactly, I dunno why I'd need "white glove" service if I had a few extra hundred grand invested. Or even an extra million.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:50 pm what services are you actually looking for that you're not getting?
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
i don't know. i don't dispute that fidelity or etrade or schwab may have better customer service that vanguard at the present time.
but at some point each of those companies is likely to be sold. and then i expect bad things may happen. vanguard is what it is. at least i am confident it is not going to get sold.
cheers,
grok
but at some point each of those companies is likely to be sold. and then i expect bad things may happen. vanguard is what it is. at least i am confident it is not going to get sold.
cheers,
grok
RIP Mr. Bogle.
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
Sure. It is also possible to make that service available to everyone. I certainly don't see why vanilla users should be subsidizing the whales.marcopolo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:11 pmYou know it is possible to get low fees and good service, right?aristotelian wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:55 pm I'm glad Vanguard isn't wasting money catering to making high net worth people feel special. If it means low fees I'm all for it. If you want to feel special, there are financial advisors who will do a very good job in exchange for a small percentage of your portfolio every year. Admittedly, free Turbotax would be nice.
I am not sure how Vanguard has managed to convince people that atrocious customer service is the price one has to pay for low cost investments, especially when even Vanguard ETFs (if one feels the need) are available at no cost at other brokerages that are willing to provide better customer service.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
Dubious it works that way. I suspect a customer with $1M generates much more net income for Vanguard than than one with $10K invested. I doubt the $1M customer uses 100x more services.aristotelian wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:44 pm Sure. It is also possible to make that service available to everyone. I certainly don't see why vanilla users should be subsidizing the whales.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
Ownership is irrelevant IMO; it's about management and some are able to walk and chew gum.... It's sad Vanguard has let the wheels fall off.
Generally....
"Flagship" is just a marketing name; Vanguard used to have good service but now average is the minority of interactions.... With a specific rep they were usually knowledgeable and knew their internal systems; seems to be a mob of 1st week employees now. Without locked in cap gains in non-etf funds, I would have laughed it off and moved..... yeah yeah yeah I know... transfer in kind blah blah... It's just not that easy. I will be forced to make a change when they force a brokerage acct on me anyway.
To the people that never call.. good for you... You obviously don't have accounts with poor IT restrictions that force you to talk to a person or never trip over a case where you have to talk to a human to fix an error made by Vanguard - no one there takes responsibility or actually fixes much without talking to 2 other "specialist" people.
I don't care about the labels... but I want someone to answer the phone in a reasonable period and have the answers when they do....
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
Fidelity and Schwab are both excellent.
Dave
Dave
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
I am also confident that if/when I lose my financial abilities, Vanguard will not try to take advantage of me by selling me expensive products. Similarly, when I am no longer around, they will not try to take advantage of my heirs. I don't have that confidence in the other companies. "Oh Mrs. Sport, I am so sorry to learn of your loss. While we are in the process of transferring Mr. Sport's holdings to your account, we have some exciting new products to offer..."grok87 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:38 pm i don't know. i don't dispute that fidelity or etrade or schwab may have better customer service that vanguard at the present time.
but at some point each of those companies is likely to be sold. and then i expect bad things may happen. vanguard is what it is. at least i am confident it is not going to get sold.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
I don't think that is how it works.aristotelian wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:44 pmSure. It is also possible to make that service available to everyone. I certainly don't see why vanilla users should be subsidizing the whales.marcopolo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:11 pmYou know it is possible to get low fees and good service, right?aristotelian wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:55 pm I'm glad Vanguard isn't wasting money catering to making high net worth people feel special. If it means low fees I'm all for it. If you want to feel special, there are financial advisors who will do a very good job in exchange for a small percentage of your portfolio every year. Admittedly, free Turbotax would be nice.
I am not sure how Vanguard has managed to convince people that atrocious customer service is the price one has to pay for low cost investments, especially when even Vanguard ETFs (if one feels the need) are available at no cost at other brokerages that are willing to provide better customer service.
Even at 5 basis points, large account holders are subsidizing the small account holders. Without the large "whales", the small retail investor most likely would be paying a lot more for financial services. The negligible perks given to the large customers still has them paying a disproportionate amount of the cost for running the financial services firm, and their profits.
In either case, it is a really poor excuse for not providing good customer service.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
It boggles my mind that investors will plonk a couple of million into a company like Vanguard, then get all out of joint that they can't have a free TurboTax. Really? That's what you think is important?
Obviously, some folks here are expecting something more from Vanguard than I do. I've been with them for 26 years, and during that time have called them perhaps 6 times. I always found their customer service just fine, and on one occasion where the rep said he needed to check with someone else, he was back at me within an hour. Sure, they used to list a specific name as your Flagship person, but they weren't ever available when I called -- strictly a marketing ploy.
If every other company I dealt with had as good service as Vanguard I would be a happy man indeed.
Obviously, some folks here are expecting something more from Vanguard than I do. I've been with them for 26 years, and during that time have called them perhaps 6 times. I always found their customer service just fine, and on one occasion where the rep said he needed to check with someone else, he was back at me within an hour. Sure, they used to list a specific name as your Flagship person, but they weren't ever available when I called -- strictly a marketing ploy.
If every other company I dealt with had as good service as Vanguard I would be a happy man indeed.
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
The death of a family member can make you a very intense user of your brokerage's services until everything is dispositioned.FelixTheCat wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:58 pm I've never needed my Flagship rep. I'm curious. What service(s) do you need?
Onboarding (asset transfers from consolidation), trust services (Trustee certification, Trust retitling), cost basis adjustment because of cost basis step-up, etc.
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
thanks.rob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:54 pmOwnership is irrelevant IMO; it's about management and some are able to walk and chew gum.... It's sad Vanguard has let the wheels fall off.
Generally....
"Flagship" is just a marketing name; Vanguard used to have good service but now average is the minority of interactions.... With a specific rep they were usually knowledgeable and knew their internal systems; seems to be a mob of 1st week employees now. Without locked in cap gains in non-etf funds, I would have laughed it off and moved..... yeah yeah yeah I know... transfer in kind blah blah... It's just not that easy. I will be forced to make a change when they force a brokerage acct on me anyway.
To the people that never call.. good for you... You obviously don't have accounts with poor IT restrictions that force you to talk to a person or never trip over a case where you have to talk to a human to fix an error made by Vanguard - no one there takes responsibility or actually fixes much without talking to 2 other "specialist" people.
I don't care about the labels... but I want someone to answer the phone in a reasonable period and have the answers when they do....
yeah i'm waiting to be forced into brokerage accts too
RIP Mr. Bogle.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
agreesport wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:10 pmI am also confident that if/when I lose my financial abilities, Vanguard will not try to take advantage of me by selling me expensive products. Similarly, when I am no longer around, they will not try to take advantage of my heirs. I don't have that confidence in the other companies. "Oh Mrs. Sport, I am so sorry to learn of your loss. While we are in the process of transferring Mr. Sport's holdings to your account, we have some exciting new products to offer..."grok87 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:38 pm i don't know. i don't dispute that fidelity or etrade or schwab may have better customer service that vanguard at the present time.
but at some point each of those companies is likely to be sold. and then i expect bad things may happen. vanguard is what it is. at least i am confident it is not going to get sold.
RIP Mr. Bogle.
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
I've been impressed with Schwab, I have a really responsive local "team" that I don't pay a penny for that is my contact when I have an issue. Has not been aggressive at all with any type of upselling either, which I appreciate. They even offer to pick things up or deliver them to my home.
I don't know what the threshold is for getting that, but I had a large-ish brokerage account and was a customer for like 25+ years at Wells Fargo and I might as well have had 50 cents in my account. Night and day difference.
I also had a poor experience at Vanguard, left and never looked back.
I don't know what the threshold is for getting that, but I had a large-ish brokerage account and was a customer for like 25+ years at Wells Fargo and I might as well have had 50 cents in my account. Night and day difference.
I also had a poor experience at Vanguard, left and never looked back.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
I've been with Vanguard 20+ years.
Service was fine the 4-5 times I've called or emailed over the years.
For me, it's also about knowing that when I'm gone my wife can use the Vanguard Personal Advisor Services if she needs to and not be charged an unfair management fee.
Service was fine the 4-5 times I've called or emailed over the years.
For me, it's also about knowing that when I'm gone my wife can use the Vanguard Personal Advisor Services if she needs to and not be charged an unfair management fee.
“If you can get good at destroying your own wrong ideas, that is a great gift.” – Charlie Munger
Re: Fed up With Flagship
The Private Client Group link on Fidelity's web site leads to Wealth Management, with a fee of 0.5% to 1.5% of assets. https://www.fidelity.com/sitemap/overview
Or is there another PCG that's open to new Fidelity clients?
Re: Fed up With Flagship
Will Fidelity's Wealth Management use low cost index funds, or will they use some of Fidelity's high fee products? If they do, then you get to pay the high expense ratios on top of the management fee.Seasonal wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:57 pmThe Private Client Group link on Fidelity's web site leads to Wealth Management, with a fee of 0.5% to 1.5% of assets. https://www.fidelity.com/sitemap/overview
Or is there another PCG that's open to new Fidelity clients?
Re: Fed up With Flagship
Some people like "high touch" service. Some love to be fawned over. Such people will happily pass out $20 bills to a series of people who will fawn over them, briefly, for a fee. They keep coming back for more.
Others find this annoying.
I am in the latter group.
I almost never call Vanguard but when I do someone answers the phone and does what I need done. No problems.
I have accounts elsewhere as well for good reasons, but when I retire I will likely consolidate everything at Vanguard. The people at the other places operate under a different system. As best I can tell, they are under orders to reach out to customers periodically even when they have nothing to say. So they call, they email, they send snail mail. They offer all kinds of things I don't want. When they manage to get me on the phone they are perfectly pleasant and I understand they are just doing the jobs their bosses tell them to do. But it is still annoying.
If you want someplace to drop by, have a cup of coffee, read the WSJ and watch CNBC; Perhaps strike up a conversation with someone else doing the same thing; Say hi to your account rep, etc., then you will not like Vanguard.
I do not have someone I can meet in person. I don't have someone I can get to know over the phone. I don't get invitations to special webinars or introductions to money managers or investment pundits. I don't get hot stock scooops.
I do not want any of those things, so I am glad that Vanguard does not push them.
I like that Vanguard does what I want- invest in broad market cap weighted index funds at cost.
I LOVE than Vanguard does not indulge in gimmicks, does not waste my time with marketing stuff I don't want and LEAVES ME ALONE.
What is it up to now? $6 trillion? Must be doing something right.
Pretty close to the ideal investment company.
Others find this annoying.
I am in the latter group.
I almost never call Vanguard but when I do someone answers the phone and does what I need done. No problems.
I have accounts elsewhere as well for good reasons, but when I retire I will likely consolidate everything at Vanguard. The people at the other places operate under a different system. As best I can tell, they are under orders to reach out to customers periodically even when they have nothing to say. So they call, they email, they send snail mail. They offer all kinds of things I don't want. When they manage to get me on the phone they are perfectly pleasant and I understand they are just doing the jobs their bosses tell them to do. But it is still annoying.
If you want someplace to drop by, have a cup of coffee, read the WSJ and watch CNBC; Perhaps strike up a conversation with someone else doing the same thing; Say hi to your account rep, etc., then you will not like Vanguard.
I do not have someone I can meet in person. I don't have someone I can get to know over the phone. I don't get invitations to special webinars or introductions to money managers or investment pundits. I don't get hot stock scooops.
I do not want any of those things, so I am glad that Vanguard does not push them.
I like that Vanguard does what I want- invest in broad market cap weighted index funds at cost.
I LOVE than Vanguard does not indulge in gimmicks, does not waste my time with marketing stuff I don't want and LEAVES ME ALONE.
What is it up to now? $6 trillion? Must be doing something right.
Pretty close to the ideal investment company.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either |
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We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right |
--Fama
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
I moved a little over a million from Vanguard to Schwab this past spring and also received a $2500 transfer bonus. Often brokerages will match what other brokers are offering. Never hurts to ask. You'll have to speak with an "advisor". The chat reps can't commit.galawdawg wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:38 pm Right now, E*TRADE has a generous bonus offer with $2,500 for a $1 million transfer. If you have more than $1 million, check with a local advisor as they can sometimes sweeten the pot. https://us.etrade.com/what-we-offer/how-it-works/promo
In broken mathematics, We estimate our prize, --Emily Dickinson
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
hedge fundsJimmbo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:54 pm I want perqs, freebies, and extra consideration, generally. I'm not a luxe person, but flagship (while it existed as an actual thing) spoiled me.
I don't know if there SHOULD be such elitism, but I'll accept it if it's offered. So my question is: who offers it?
"October: This is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May, March, June, December, August and February."
Re: Fed up With Flagship
Are they now answering the phones nights and weekends?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
+1afan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:21 pm Some people like "high touch" service. Some love to be fawned over. Such people will happily pass out $20 bills to a series of people who will fawn over them, briefly, for a fee. They keep coming back for more.
Others find this annoying.
I am in the latter group.
I almost never call Vanguard but when I do someone answers the phone and does what I need done. No problems.
I have accounts elsewhere as well for good reasons, but when I retire I will likely consolidate everything at Vanguard. The people at the other places operate under a different system. As best I can tell, they are under orders to reach out to customers periodically even when they have nothing to say. So they call, they email, they send snail mail. They offer all kinds of things I don't want. When they manage to get me on the phone they are perfectly pleasant and I understand they are just doing the jobs their bosses tell them to do. But it is still annoying.
If you want someplace to drop by, have a cup of coffee, read the WSJ and watch CNBC; Perhaps strike up a conversation with someone else doing the same thing; Say hi to your account rep, etc., then you will not like Vanguard.
I do not have someone I can meet in person. I don't have someone I can get to know over the phone. I don't get invitations to special webinars or introductions to money managers or investment pundits. I don't get hot stock scooops.
I do not want any of those things, so I am glad that Vanguard does not push them.
I like that Vanguard does what I want- invest in broad market cap weighted index funds at cost.
I LOVE than Vanguard does not indulge in gimmicks, does not waste my time with marketing stuff I don't want and LEAVES ME ALONE.
What is it up to now? $6 trillion? Must be doing something right.
Pretty close to the ideal investment company.
I've had bad experiences with Fidelity. Maybe they've changed. But the post above captures the essence of the delta between a for-profit brokerage and Vanguard. When times get tight, the wheel will turn at the for-profit company and the up-selling and obfuscation will near certainly follow. I want to do business with a company I feel I'll be able to trust, especially when I'm older. For me, based on years of experience, that is Vanguard.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
I've had good experiences with both Vanguard and Fidelity. I've had ongoing interactions with Vanguard about inheriting IRAs this year, they have been very helpful and responsive. Vanguard has been pushing PAS recently, but hasn't bothered me.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
I mean really it is a CO-OP and if you join you benefit. Those who do not join and just buy their products also benefit and that is OK too. "Founder John C. Bogle structured Vanguard as a client-owned* mutual fund company with no outside owners seeking profits."afan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:21 pm Some people like "high touch" service. Some love to be fawned over. Such people will happily pass out $20 bills to a series of people who will fawn over them, briefly, for a fee. They keep coming back for more.
Others find this annoying.
I am in the latter group.
I almost never call Vanguard but when I do someone answers the phone and does what I need done. No problems.
I have accounts elsewhere as well for good reasons, but when I retire I will likely consolidate everything at Vanguard. The people at the other places operate under a different system. As best I can tell, they are under orders to reach out to customers periodically even when they have nothing to say. So they call, they email, they send snail mail. They offer all kinds of things I don't want. When they manage to get me on the phone they are perfectly pleasant and I understand they are just doing the jobs their bosses tell them to do. But it is still annoying.
If you want someplace to drop by, have a cup of coffee, read the WSJ and watch CNBC; Perhaps strike up a conversation with someone else doing the same thing; Say hi to your account rep, etc., then you will not like Vanguard.
I do not have someone I can meet in person. I don't have someone I can get to know over the phone. I don't get invitations to special webinars or introductions to money managers or investment pundits. I don't get hot stock scooops.
I do not want any of those things, so I am glad that Vanguard does not push them.
I like that Vanguard does what I want- invest in broad market cap weighted index funds at cost.
I LOVE than Vanguard does not indulge in gimmicks, does not waste my time with marketing stuff I don't want and LEAVES ME ALONE.
What is it up to now? $6 trillion? Must be doing something right.
Pretty close to the ideal investment company.
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
My experience is the opposite. Started moving new taxable investing there. I talked to my free Fidelity Rep about investing in either VTI or ITOT - ability to buy fractional shares (which I believe you still can't do at Vanguard). The Fidelity Rep didn't even try to steer me to a Fidelity Fund which is what I expected. Meanwhile Vanguard tries to convince me to change my account type using misinformation and is always peddling PAS to me. My plan is likely now to work towards consilidating at Fidelity. Better and more available support, more knowledgeable service folks, consistent free adivisor, better web experience, better technology and services, etc.Beehave wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:02 pm+1afan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:21 pm Some people like "high touch" service. Some love to be fawned over. Such people will happily pass out $20 bills to a series of people who will fawn over them, briefly, for a fee. They keep coming back for more.
Others find this annoying.
I am in the latter group.
I almost never call Vanguard but when I do someone answers the phone and does what I need done. No problems.
I have accounts elsewhere as well for good reasons, but when I retire I will likely consolidate everything at Vanguard. The people at the other places operate under a different system. As best I can tell, they are under orders to reach out to customers periodically even when they have nothing to say. So they call, they email, they send snail mail. They offer all kinds of things I don't want. When they manage to get me on the phone they are perfectly pleasant and I understand they are just doing the jobs their bosses tell them to do. But it is still annoying.
If you want someplace to drop by, have a cup of coffee, read the WSJ and watch CNBC; Perhaps strike up a conversation with someone else doing the same thing; Say hi to your account rep, etc., then you will not like Vanguard.
I do not have someone I can meet in person. I don't have someone I can get to know over the phone. I don't get invitations to special webinars or introductions to money managers or investment pundits. I don't get hot stock scooops.
I do not want any of those things, so I am glad that Vanguard does not push them.
I like that Vanguard does what I want- invest in broad market cap weighted index funds at cost.
I LOVE than Vanguard does not indulge in gimmicks, does not waste my time with marketing stuff I don't want and LEAVES ME ALONE.
What is it up to now? $6 trillion? Must be doing something right.
Pretty close to the ideal investment company.
I've had bad experiences with Fidelity. Maybe they've changed. But the post above captures the essence of the delta between a for-profit brokerage and Vanguard. When times get tight, the wheel will turn at the for-profit company and the up-selling and obfuscation will near certainly follow. I want to do business with a company I feel I'll be able to trust, especially when I'm older. For me, based on years of experience, that is Vanguard.
Not sure why people think Vanguard is somehow morally superior. Even though they aren't publically traded note they no longer (change happened shortly after Bogle stepped down) tell you how much their execs are paid or how they are paid. They are looking to squeeze expenses and boost profit like everyone else. Look at the recent outsourcing - don't think more changes aren't possible.
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Re: Fed up With Flagship
Based on my mother's experience, I wouldn't count on Vanguard to do much for your heirs.
For five years or so now, all of our new investment funds have gone to Fidelity. Very happy there. Office a mile or so away, reps very helpful.
For five years or so now, all of our new investment funds have gone to Fidelity. Very happy there. Office a mile or so away, reps very helpful.
sport wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:10 pmI am also confident that if/when I lose my financial abilities, Vanguard will not try to take advantage of me by selling me expensive products. Similarly, when I am no longer around, they will not try to take advantage of my heirs. I don't have that confidence in the other companies. "Oh Mrs. Sport, I am so sorry to learn of your loss. While we are in the process of transferring Mr. Sport's holdings to your account, we have some exciting new products to offer..."grok87 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:38 pm i don't know. i don't dispute that fidelity or etrade or schwab may have better customer service that vanguard at the present time.
but at some point each of those companies is likely to be sold. and then i expect bad things may happen. vanguard is what it is. at least i am confident it is not going to get sold.
Re: Fed up With Flagship
I've never called Vanguard...
What special treatment is desired?
What special treatment is desired?
Re: Fed up With Flagship
I don't want my investment company to do much. I just don't want them to take advantage of my heirs. Vanguard does not have salespeople that work on commission and who would like nothing more than to sell high expense products to the unwary.eucalyptus wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:30 pm Based on my mother's experience, I wouldn't count on Vanguard to do much for your heirs.