Refinance Mega Thread

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Just a general note (regardless of lender) that I personally feel that the inputted value for estimated home value likely plays a major role in determining eligibility for an appraisal waiver.

It is my theory that if the inputted estimate value is higher (or within a certain $ or %) of what the automated system guesses, it will trigger an appraisal, regardless of LTV. While a human may override that, good luck in this environment getting manual intervention like that. So, unless you are worried about LTV, I put in clearly underestimated values on apps that ask for what my property worth is. In every one of them, I've gotten a waiver (though it could easily have been for other reasons) and the Loan Estimate I get back after some processing has increased the property value from what I sent in on my app.

Just food for though as folks apply anywhere and hope to get a waiver.
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batpot
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by batpot »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:03 pm Just a general note (regardless of lender) that I personally feel that the inputted value for estimated home value likely plays a major role in determining eligibility for an appraisal waiver.

It is my theory that if the inputted estimate value is higher (or within a certain $ or %) of what the automated system guesses, it will trigger an appraisal, regardless of LTV. While a human may override that, good luck in this environment getting manual intervention like that. So, unless you are worried about LTV, I put in clearly underestimated values on apps that ask for what my property worth is. In every one of them, I've gotten a waiver (though it could easily have been for other reasons) and the Loan Estimate I get back after some processing has increased the property value from what I sent in on my app.

Just food for though as folks apply anywhere and hope to get a waiver.
yup.
But part of that equation might also be the LTV.

We were operating on a ~55% LTV, and I put in a value below what both Zillow and Redfin estimated value was. Got the appraisal waived from 3 different lenders.
Had we been closer to 80% LTV, that in and of itself might have triggered an appraisal, even if we under-estimated the value.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

batpot wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:18 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:03 pm Just a general note (regardless of lender) that I personally feel that the inputted value for estimated home value likely plays a major role in determining eligibility for an appraisal waiver.

It is my theory that if the inputted estimate value is higher (or within a certain $ or %) of what the automated system guesses, it will trigger an appraisal, regardless of LTV. While a human may override that, good luck in this environment getting manual intervention like that. So, unless you are worried about LTV, I put in clearly underestimated values on apps that ask for what my property worth is. In every one of them, I've gotten a waiver (though it could easily have been for other reasons) and the Loan Estimate I get back after some processing has increased the property value from what I sent in on my app.

Just food for though as folks apply anywhere and hope to get a waiver.
yup.
But part of that equation might also be the LTV.

We were operating on a ~55% LTV, and I put in a value below what both Zillow and Redfin estimated value was. Got the appraisal waived from 3 different lenders.
Had we been closer to 80% LTV, that in and of itself might have triggered an appraisal, even if we under-estimated the value.
Agreed. I am 46% of the underestimated value of the house. At that low value, it didn't matter that I put in $50k+ less than the house that sold a few doors down (literally). Doing whatever I needed to to get low enough to not need an appraisal was the goal and I erred on underestimating.

I am credit score and other factors also play a role, but all things being equal, if you and I would qualify as we did for waivers, but instead put our desired sale price if we were to sell the house as the estimated value, we may have needed an appraisal to justify that valuation.
WhyRWeHere
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WhyRWeHere »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:03 pm Just a general note (regardless of lender) that I personally feel that the inputted value for estimated home value likely plays a major role in determining eligibility for an appraisal waiver.

It is my theory that if the inputted estimate value is higher (or within a certain $ or %) of what the automated system guesses, it will trigger an appraisal, regardless of LTV. While a human may override that, good luck in this environment getting manual intervention like that. So, unless you are worried about LTV, I put in clearly underestimated values on apps that ask for what my property worth is. In every one of them, I've gotten a waiver (though it could easily have been for other reasons) and the Loan Estimate I get back after some processing has increased the property value from what I sent in on my app.

Just food for though as folks apply anywhere and hope to get a waiver.
I agree. I underestimated my home value by at least 10-15%. Two lenders waived the appraisal after running it through whatever system. Better didn't after running it through what I thought was the same system, but acknowledged the low LTV.
noobtoinvesting
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by noobtoinvesting »

is there a limit on lender credit? i have been told $5000 from one lender and i have other lender giving me 6500 lender credit!? who is right? same rate/same loan amt. any one?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

noobtoinvesting wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:32 pm is there a limit on lender credit? i have been told $5000 from one lender and i have other lender giving me 6500 lender credit!? who is right? same rate/same loan amt. any one?
Yes, there is a limit. It is set by the lender’s company policy. At one of those it seems to be $5k.

Also note, there is a regulatory limit to how much can be paid to you if this isn’t a cash-out refinance. Thus, your lender credit can only get so large that way too.
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batpot
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by batpot »

noobtoinvesting wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:32 pm is there a limit on lender credit? i have been told $5000 from one lender and i have other lender giving me 6500 lender credit!? who is right? same rate/same loan amt. any one?
it's a game they're playing, and it's working.
who has the better rate?
What is the sum of non-negotiable/non-shoppable closing costs?
Are you paying equal points to both?
Forget prepaid items; those are going to cost what they cost regardless of who you close with.
BarDownHockey
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

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ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:03 pm Just a general note (regardless of lender) that I personally feel that the inputted value for estimated home value likely plays a major role in determining eligibility for an appraisal waiver.

It is my theory that if the inputted estimate value is higher (or within a certain $ or %) of what the automated system guesses, it will trigger an appraisal, regardless of LTV. While a human may override that, good luck in this environment getting manual intervention like that. So, unless you are worried about LTV, I put in clearly underestimated values on apps that ask for what my property worth is. In every one of them, I've gotten a waiver (though it could easily have been for other reasons) and the Loan Estimate I get back after some processing has increased the property value from what I sent in on my app.

Just food for though as folks apply anywhere and hope to get a waiver.
Interesting thought. I had a lender tell me that any home value over $1M will require an appraisal if the lender intends on going through Fannie Mae (which many do). He said even a $3M home with a $200k loan would need an appraisal. I thought he was blowing smoke, but did a little research and found the link below online. Looks like $1M threshold does indeed require an appraisal. The link provides some other interesting data points on appraisal waivers: https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/media/9456/display
mt2k
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Re: Gave consent to process and not underwritten, but now found almost 0.25% lower interest rate, advise please

Post by mt2k »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:14 pm
Young Fellow wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:56 pm Hi BrandonBogle, thank you for great response and suggestion, People posted in this forum that it is taking 50 days plus and they are extending rate lock if the loan is not closed by that date. I also edited my post where in Travis CU closing costs are cheaper by $1000 even with home appraisal where Chase did waive home appraisal.
Young Fellow
Gotcha. In that case, I would do as I mentioned above. Proceed with Travis, but ask them not to order the appraisal yet. Once the initial review comes in approved, hopefully Chase has answered by then. If not, $500 lost will still put you $500 ahead at closing, plus the interest savings.

Meanwhile, if Chase comes back and beats Travis, the cost of the appraisal (if done by then) at Travis will still put you ahead. I would gamble the $500 on the premise “don’t let perfect be the enemy of good”.

Good luck!
Like Brandon said, ask Travis if they can wait for the appraisal. I would go with Travis even if don't wait. Their closing cost is $1,000 cheaper than Chase'. Assuming you lose $500 with chase, that will still put you $500 ($1,000-$500) ahead.
FordMustang12
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by FordMustang12 »

I got a few quotes and better did not agree to counter or even match them saying these are way too good and we cannot counter or match them. I asked if I will get 1000$ and the agent asked me to send the final disclosure from the other company I went with. Once the closing is done they will send 1000$. This other offer I got was from lenderfi and they told me I will have no pmi, and no appraisal with rate of 2.875 for 30 year with closing costs 1300$ And no escrow. They ran my house value way more than it is worth. I told this offer to my broker and he said they cannot do that since I am over 80% ltv. My question iscan lenderfi not ask for pmi by raising the home value ?

My broker is willing to do 2.770 for 29 year but I will have pmi with no closing costs(not rolled into loan). Now I am contemplating between the two.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Qw1221wq »

ChiKid24 wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:17 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:03 pm Just a general note (regardless of lender) that I personally feel that the inputted value for estimated home value likely plays a major role in determining eligibility for an appraisal waiver.

It is my theory that if the inputted estimate value is higher (or within a certain $ or %) of what the automated system guesses, it will trigger an appraisal, regardless of LTV. While a human may override that, good luck in this environment getting manual intervention like that. So, unless you are worried about LTV, I put in clearly underestimated values on apps that ask for what my property worth is. In every one of them, I've gotten a waiver (though it could easily have been for other reasons) and the Loan Estimate I get back after some processing has increased the property value from what I sent in on my app.

Just food for though as folks apply anywhere and hope to get a waiver.
Interesting thought. I had a lender tell me that any home value over $1M will require an appraisal if the lender intends on going through Fannie Mae (which many do). He said even a $3M home with a $200k loan would need an appraisal. I thought he was blowing smoke, but did a little research and found the link below online. Looks like $1M threshold does indeed require an appraisal. The link provides some other interesting data points on appraisal waivers: https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/media/9456/display
If you have never refinanced before, and Fannie Mae does not have an appraisal on file for your house, you will need to do an appraisal regardless of value or ltv.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

dragoncar wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:32 am
anon_investor wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:27 pm That begs the question can I get Better to match an Ally LE...
I sent my ally LE to better and they said they couldn’t beat it. They didn’t say anything along the lines of “we won’t consider a competing LE from ally”. However that was the end of it since my loan was too large for their $1000 guarantee. The LE for ally clearly says ally bank and better says better and the terms didn’t say anything about exempted banks, so I think you’d have a strong case to get the $1k if you were otherwise eligible (but did I read up thread they no longer offer that guarantee?)
Better's Better Price Guarantee Fine Print, Section 4 wrote: https://better.com/faq/better-guarantee ... fine-print

The Loan Estimate must be dated within 1 business day from its date of submission to Better Mortgage and may not be from a broker or lender who Better Mortgage provides loan originating and/or brokerage services.
Given that the Ally / Better relationship seems like one could argue that Better originates for Ally, they would likely use this clause to state they will not compete with an Ally LE whether they outright give the reason for not competing with it or not.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:24 pm
dragoncar wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:32 am
anon_investor wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:27 pm That begs the question can I get Better to match an Ally LE...
I sent my ally LE to better and they said they couldn’t beat it. They didn’t say anything along the lines of “we won’t consider a competing LE from ally”. However that was the end of it since my loan was too large for their $1000 guarantee. The LE for ally clearly says ally bank and better says better and the terms didn’t say anything about exempted banks, so I think you’d have a strong case to get the $1k if you were otherwise eligible (but did I read up thread they no longer offer that guarantee?)
Better's Better Price Guarantee Fine Print, Section 4 wrote: https://better.com/faq/better-guarantee ... fine-print

The Loan Estimate must be dated within 1 business day from its date of submission to Better Mortgage and may not be from a broker or lender who Better Mortgage provides loan originating and/or brokerage services.
Given that the Ally / Better relationship seems like one could argue that Better originates for Ally, they would likely use this clause to state they will not compete with an Ally LE whether they outright give the reason for not competing with it or not.
Haha oh well. Lenderfi is getting close to my target cost. Does Lenderfi require a hard credit pull to issue a LE? With the $2.5k amex credit, if Better matched Lenderfi that would get me there.

I know Ally only needs a soft credit pull to issue a LE, that would have made things easier.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

anon_investor wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:12 pm Lenderfi is getting close to my target cost. Does Lenderfi require a hard credit pull to issue a LE?
I had to unfreeze my reports to apply with LenderFi. That said, I don't recall if I could have gotten an LE without a pull. They weren't competitive for me, nor came down once I applied. What's worse, my old file is stuck with the guy from May. So now I can't shop them either as he won't answer any emails.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:39 pm
anon_investor wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:12 pm Lenderfi is getting close to my target cost. Does Lenderfi require a hard credit pull to issue a LE?
I had to unfreeze my reports to apply with LenderFi. That said, I don't recall if I could have gotten an LE without a pull. They weren't competitive for me, nor came down once I applied. What's worse, my old file is stuck with the guy from May. So now I can't shop them either as he won't answer any emails.
Yuck, the other thread dedicated to Lenderfi, sounds like they're slow. I had a good experience with Ally refinancing in May, hopefully their costs go down.
turfman
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by turfman »

I just completed a refinance with Strong Home Mortgage, through Costco. Got a 30y fixed at 3.125% at slightly over 60% LTV, with $350 lender credit, for a rate locked in in mid-May that closed the first week of July. Could have gotten a slightly better deal if we’d done it a few weeks earlier or a few weeks later, but I’m converting from a 7/1 ARM that’s one year away from being able to adjust, and we locked in a lower rate on the FRM than we had initially gotten on the ARM. So I'm generally happy (and my instinct is always to maximize, but I find I'm happier when I satisfice).

This was the first time I’ve refinanced (the 7/1 ARM was for our first home purchase), and I found three resources incredibly useful: this message board, mtgprofessor.com, and themortgagereports.com. Some lessons for us for next time, and hope they are useful to others in the meantime:

1. We found the best deals through (i) Costco and (ii) LenderFi. Between the two I would probably try to use LenderFi.com next time, because I like being able to get tailored rate quotes in real time without the clumsy / time-consuming phone call to a lender. I didn’t discover that site until we were a couple weeks from closing with SHM, but next time, I’d suggest (to my future self) to check tailored rates (i.e., specific to the LTV ratio, loan amount, credit score, zip code, and monthly income) 1-2x/day for at least 3-4 weeks before I expect to apply, and take notes on what I see, so that I can get a sense of how volatile the market is and when is a good day to lock in a rate.

2. Among the lenders who work with Costco, the business seems more or less a commodity business, such that all lenders are probably offering virtually identical deals for a given snapshot in time. I found a slightly better package when I spoke with SHM than I did when I spoke to two other lenders in the program, but over time I came to realize (or believe) that that was just reflecting short-term volatility in the markets. So, choose a lender and a broker you like, and whom you want to reward with your business.

3. In the initial conversation, some brokers might suggest you can get by without an appraisal (which would have saved us $450). The broker I spoke with made it sound like the process of discovering if you can get an appraisal waiver was a little mysterious, and impossible to figure out until you’ve applied for a loan. Later, I came to understand this is not mysterious at all: A broker can enter your address at any time into a FNMA search engine, and find out (in seconds, and at no cost) if you can get an appraisal waiver. (At least, this is how he presented it to me.)

4. I did not like the broker I ended up with – Tucker Mayfield from Strong Home Mortgage. He was very responsive and fast in the initial couple of calls, but misrepresented the appraisal waiver issue (see point #3) early on – he mentioned we might be able to get by without it, which seemed attractive, whereas the other two brokers I spoke to did not mention this. I figured hey, this guy is looking out for me. But when I found out how easy it was to check, I discovered that he either knew, or should have known, immediately on talking with me, so I felt this was a bait and switch. I also didn’t like Tucker because he messed up some paperwork in the final stages (didn’t correct the Closing Disclosure form for an edit I pointed out) and was completely unavailable on the day that we closed (see point #5).

5. I generally liked the online broker approach, but the day of closing was very stressful. Our broker was unavailable by phone and unresponsive by email, did not prepare us at all for the day of closing (e.g., didn’t remind us that it takes 60-90 minutes of wet signing documents; this is obviously something he knows well, but it was our first time signing a new loan in 6 years and we’d forgotten what a pain it is). He gave us no preparation whatsoever for how the closing process would happen, and didn’t ask us for a preferred day/time for the signing process (instead, just informed us what day/time it would be). I very nearly backed out and refused to sign, just out of annoyance. (I’m still thinking about canceling, again out of annoyance, but probably won’t.)

6. I found these boards excellent for general advising and to learn about other resources (especially mtgprofessor.com and themortgagereports.com). I found the calculators at mtgprofessor.com incredibly useful for understanding the implications of mortgages at different rates, terms, lender credit / points paid, and so on. The information at themortgagereports.com was more useful as background, though if I were to follow the approach I suggested in point #1, I would definitely want to read the daily / periodic reports on that site to track what’s going on in the market recently / today / in the near future. On this site, it’s a little bit useful to hear the deals that others got, but not terribly so, because (a) prices are volatile and (b) deals differ so much depending on location, credit score, LTV, and other variables.

7. We ended up right on the cusp of 60% LTV. I found substantially better deals – on the order of $1000 more in lender credits for the same interest rate – for a LTV slightly below 60% than for one slightly above 60%. In our case it turned out we got a slightly better deal (all-in, and for our expected time in the home) to keep the LTV slightly above 60% rather than paying down the principal in order to get the higher lender credit, but that calculation might differ for other cases. I never would have been able to see the patterns if I hadn’t been able to enter a lot of different cases into LenderFi.com, and then calculate the ROI for those different cases using the calculators on mtgprofessor.com. So again, both offer really great resources for exploration and learning.

Hope these tidbits are useful for others. And I’d be curious to know if my interpretation of the appraisal waiver question in #3 is accurate.

Thanks all!
McJammer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by McJammer »

dsmil wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:34 am
McJammer wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:47 am Hi everyone - I think I know the answer but wanted thoughts from here . . . appraiser is coming on Friday. Taking photos of inside and outside of the house. Report will go to the lender and us. Should I clean up? LOL. Not sure how much difference it would make but do I want the house to appraise for higher because that will improve my loan to value ratio, thus improving how our loan looks to the lender?

Will they report our appraisal to the city, i.e. higher property taxes? ewwwwww.
Yes, you should definitely clean up, especially if you could be paying PMI, or anywhere close to 20% equity. I don't think that appraisals go to anyone other than you and the lender, so I wouldn't worry about the taxes.
Thanks! No, not paying PMI. Haven't been on our current mortgage (we put 20% down - had to our super hot market) nor will we be on our refinance.
bsharin
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bsharin »

Long time lurker of the forum. Currently I have a 30 year mortgage that I have had for about a year at 3.65% in Florida. I have been slowly shopping around and gotten several quotes from lenders. This one looks to be the best so far but wanted the opinions of the experts. Better offered me a far lesser discounted points and even with the $2500 statement credit, does not see to be worth it. Thanks in advance and here are the numbers provided to me.

- 30yr @ 2.875%

- Origination Fee $ 1,595.00
- Discount Points $ (7,231.68)
- Appraisal Fee $ 450.00
- Credit Report Fee $ 20.36
- Tax Service Fee $ 70.00
- Flood Certificate Fee $ 10.00
- MERS Registration Fee $ 11.95
- Title-Settlement/Closing Fee $ 500.00
- Title-Lender Title Insurance $ 1,530.00
- Title-Endorsement Fee $ 178.00
- Gov't Recording Fee $ 256.50
- State Tax/Stamps $ 1,701.00
- Intangible Tax $ 972.00
- Fee Total $ 63.13
dsmil
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dsmil »

bsharin wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:37 am Long time lurker of the forum. Currently I have a 30 year mortgage that I have had for about a year at 3.65% in Florida. I have been slowly shopping around and gotten several quotes from lenders. This one looks to be the best so far but wanted the opinions of the experts. Better offered me a far lesser discounted points and even with the $2500 statement credit, does not see to be worth it. Thanks in advance and here are the numbers provided to me.

- 30yr @ 2.875%

- Origination Fee $ 1,595.00
- Discount Points $ (7,231.68)
- Appraisal Fee $ 450.00
- Credit Report Fee $ 20.36
- Tax Service Fee $ 70.00
- Flood Certificate Fee $ 10.00
- MERS Registration Fee $ 11.95
- Title-Settlement/Closing Fee $ 500.00
- Title-Lender Title Insurance $ 1,530.00
- Title-Endorsement Fee $ 178.00
- Gov't Recording Fee $ 256.50
- State Tax/Stamps $ 1,701.00
- Intangible Tax $ 972.00
- Fee Total $ 63.13
About a $6k credit at 2.875% is a great deal! What's the loan amount?
dsmil
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dsmil »

WhyRWeHere wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:31 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:03 pm Just a general note (regardless of lender) that I personally feel that the inputted value for estimated home value likely plays a major role in determining eligibility for an appraisal waiver.

It is my theory that if the inputted estimate value is higher (or within a certain $ or %) of what the automated system guesses, it will trigger an appraisal, regardless of LTV. While a human may override that, good luck in this environment getting manual intervention like that. So, unless you are worried about LTV, I put in clearly underestimated values on apps that ask for what my property worth is. In every one of them, I've gotten a waiver (though it could easily have been for other reasons) and the Loan Estimate I get back after some processing has increased the property value from what I sent in on my app.

Just food for though as folks apply anywhere and hope to get a waiver.
I agree. I underestimated my home value by at least 10-15%. Two lenders waived the appraisal after running it through whatever system. Better didn't after running it through what I thought was the same system, but acknowledged the low LTV.
I think Fannie and Freddie have different requirements as well. Multiple lenders that go through Freddie Mac gave me appraisal waivers at 20% equity. Better.com went through Fannie Mae and did not give me the waiver.
mt2k
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mt2k »

bsharin wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:37 am Long time lurker of the forum. Currently I have a 30 year mortgage that I have had for about a year at 3.65% in Florida. I have been slowly shopping around and gotten several quotes from lenders. This one looks to be the best so far but wanted the opinions of the experts. Better offered me a far lesser discounted points and even with the $2500 statement credit, does not see to be worth it. Thanks in advance and here are the numbers provided to me.

- 30yr @ 2.875%

- Origination Fee $ 1,595.00
- Discount Points $ (7,231.68)
- Appraisal Fee $ 450.00
- Credit Report Fee $ 20.36
- Tax Service Fee $ 70.00
- Flood Certificate Fee $ 10.00
- MERS Registration Fee $ 11.95
- Title-Settlement/Closing Fee $ 500.00
- Title-Lender Title Insurance $ 1,530.00
- Title-Endorsement Fee $ 178.00
- Gov't Recording Fee $ 256.50
- State Tax/Stamps $ 1,701.00
- Intangible Tax $ 972.00
- Fee Total $ 63.13
You have got a great deal! Lender credit covers all the expenses including the state tax!
However, you can still take this LE to Better and ask them to match or beat. If they do, you will get additional $2,500 in Amex credit.
orklc
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by orklc »

orklc wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:00 pm We locked a 15 year fixed with lenderfi yesterday at 2.0%, with total points&fees of 1.49%, and the appraisal waived. Paying points is definitely a different approach from what I've read most others choosing instead (the no/low fee options at 2.5 or 2.375 for a 15 year), but it seems to make sense with some optimistic assumptions about how long we'll be in the house and the loan. Prior to reading here I had been waiting to see if any of our local CUs would drop to 2.5% and normal fees, which they still haven't yet.
Final timeline ended up being applied 6/11, locked 6/11 evening, closed 6/30, funded 7/6, old mortgage paid off 7/7. Took a couple days longer than the initial guess, but still easily fit within the lock period.
bsharin
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bsharin »

mt2k wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:58 am
bsharin wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:37 am Long time lurker of the forum. Currently I have a 30 year mortgage that I have had for about a year at 3.65% in Florida. I have been slowly shopping around and gotten several quotes from lenders. This one looks to be the best so far but wanted the opinions of the experts. Better offered me a far lesser discounted points and even with the $2500 statement credit, does not see to be worth it. Thanks in advance and here are the numbers provided to me.

- 30yr @ 2.875%

- Origination Fee $ 1,595.00
- Discount Points $ (7,231.68)
- Appraisal Fee $ 450.00
- Credit Report Fee $ 20.36
- Tax Service Fee $ 70.00
- Flood Certificate Fee $ 10.00
- MERS Registration Fee $ 11.95
- Title-Settlement/Closing Fee $ 500.00
- Title-Lender Title Insurance $ 1,530.00
- Title-Endorsement Fee $ 178.00
- Gov't Recording Fee $ 256.50
- State Tax/Stamps $ 1,701.00
- Intangible Tax $ 972.00
- Fee Total $ 63.13
You have got a great deal! Lender credit covers all the expenses including the state tax!
However, you can still take this LE to Better and ask them to match or beat. If they do, you will get additional $2,500 in Amex credit.
Thanks, will try that out.
bsharin
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:30 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bsharin »

dsmil wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:19 am
bsharin wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:37 am Long time lurker of the forum. Currently I have a 30 year mortgage that I have had for about a year at 3.65% in Florida. I have been slowly shopping around and gotten several quotes from lenders. This one looks to be the best so far but wanted the opinions of the experts. Better offered me a far lesser discounted points and even with the $2500 statement credit, does not see to be worth it. Thanks in advance and here are the numbers provided to me.

- 30yr @ 2.875%

- Origination Fee $ 1,595.00
- Discount Points $ (7,231.68)
- Appraisal Fee $ 450.00
- Credit Report Fee $ 20.36
- Tax Service Fee $ 70.00
- Flood Certificate Fee $ 10.00
- MERS Registration Fee $ 11.95
- Title-Settlement/Closing Fee $ 500.00
- Title-Lender Title Insurance $ 1,530.00
- Title-Endorsement Fee $ 178.00
- Gov't Recording Fee $ 256.50
- State Tax/Stamps $ 1,701.00
- Intangible Tax $ 972.00
- Fee Total $ 63.13
About a $6k credit at 2.875% is a great deal! What's the loan amount?
Thanks! appreciate the feedback. 486k is my loan amount.
Nebelsieck
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:16 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Nebelsieck »

bsharin wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:35 am
dsmil wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:19 am
bsharin wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:37 am Long time lurker of the forum. Currently I have a 30 year mortgage that I have had for about a year at 3.65% in Florida. I have been slowly shopping around and gotten several quotes from lenders. This one looks to be the best so far but wanted the opinions of the experts. Better offered me a far lesser discounted points and even with the $2500 statement credit, does not see to be worth it. Thanks in advance and here are the numbers provided to me.

- 30yr @ 2.875%

- Origination Fee $ 1,595.00
- Discount Points $ (7,231.68)
- Appraisal Fee $ 450.00
- Credit Report Fee $ 20.36
- Tax Service Fee $ 70.00
- Flood Certificate Fee $ 10.00
- MERS Registration Fee $ 11.95
- Title-Settlement/Closing Fee $ 500.00
- Title-Lender Title Insurance $ 1,530.00
- Title-Endorsement Fee $ 178.00
- Gov't Recording Fee $ 256.50
- State Tax/Stamps $ 1,701.00
- Intangible Tax $ 972.00
- Fee Total $ 63.13
About a $6k credit at 2.875% is a great deal! What's the loan amount?
Thanks! appreciate the feedback. 486k is my loan amount.
Who's is your lender? I have a similar quote from Loandepot. Better and LenderFi told me that they won't give a lender credit that exceeds the A+B+C closing costs (sounds fishy to me), but LD's credit will take care of my escrow too.

You might want to see if you can get a better rate on title and settlement. Yours seems high unless that's a FL thing. The taxes also seem high - some states only charge that much in taxes for purchase mortgages and not refis, and sometimes the Loan Estimate mixes those up. But again, FL may be different on that count too.
frugalNY
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

Hi All,
I need a quick decision and I hope you all can help! I'm inclied to take up on the offer and lock in today but need some reassurance.

Finally was able to speak to a LoanDepot loan officer and got below LE. I need to lock in an hour or so to get the deal done. Please advise if this looks good. I'm in NY. My goal was to get low rates and minimize loan cost. Overall, the loan cost to me is on $1900; the rest is covered by lender's credit. The pay back period is only 4 months so if the rate goes down further I can do again possibly.
See details below and advise ASAP.


Current Loan:
with Wells fargo
27 months in for a 30 yr fixed
rate: 3.625
loan original balance: 700K
loan current balance: 660,772.75
P&I:$3192

Proposed Loan by LoanDepot
loan Program: 30 yr fixed
Interest rate: 2.99%
APR: 3.018%

term 30 years (clock back 27 months)
P&I: $2800.08
Debts to be paid off: 660,772.75
Prepaid & reserves: $1416.48
Closing cost: $12,524.81
Discount/Lender Credit: (10,586.80)
Total Loan amount: $665,000.00
Cash to/from borrower: ($872.76)
BarDownHockey
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BarDownHockey »

frugalNY wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:39 am Hi All,
I need a quick decision and I hope you all can help! I'm inclied to take up on the offer and lock in today but need some reassurance.

Finally was able to speak to a LoanDepot loan officer and got below LE. I need to lock in an hour or so to get the deal done. Please advise if this looks good. I'm in NY. My goal was to get low rates and minimize loan cost. Overall, the loan cost to me is on $1900; the rest is covered by lender's credit. The pay back period is only 4 months so if the rate goes down further I can do again possibly.
See details below and advise ASAP.


Current Loan:
with Wells fargo
27 months in for a 30 yr fixed
rate: 3.625
loan original balance: 700K
loan current balance: 660,772.75
P&I:$3192

Proposed Loan by LoanDepot
loan Program: 30 yr fixed
Interest rate: 2.99%
APR: 3.018%

term 30 years (clock back 27 months)
P&I: $2800.08
Debts to be paid off: 660,772.75
Prepaid & reserves: $1416.48
Closing cost: $12,524.81
Discount/Lender Credit: (10,586.80)
Total Loan amount: $665,000.00
Cash to/from borrower: ($872.76)
Just to confirm, if closing costs are $12,500 and the lender credit is $10,000, this refi would cost you about $2,000? If that's correct, and your current loan balance is below the conforming limit (this is based on your county, you can google it if you prefer not to share your location), then from everything I've read on this forum, you should be able to to better with the closing costs to get it to no cost or actually have the bank pay you to do the refi.

If you're above the conforming limit, then this looks like a pretty good deal.
BarDownHockey
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BarDownHockey »

delete
Last edited by BarDownHockey on Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
frugalNY
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

Correct, it's below conforming limit of 726K (my loan is 660K). And yes, you're right closing cost comes to be approx 2k for me.

I'm not really clear what you mean by I can have them pay me. Can you please elaborate so I can negotiate better?
frugalNY
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

BarDownHockey,
Can you help me what exactly I should say to the loan officer to negotiate better? Thanks in advance.
frugalNY
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

Anyone? Clock is ticking for me :?
SirBotsALots
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:53 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by SirBotsALots »

frugalNY - in addition to the out of pocket closing costs, looks like your loan amount is increasing by $4K which has to be considered. I'd keep looking, if nothing better is available LoanDepot will still be there even if their offer changes a bit with rates.
WhyRWeHere
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:40 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WhyRWeHere »

frugalNY wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:54 am Correct, it's below conforming limit of 726K (my loan is 660K). And yes, you're right closing cost comes to be approx 2k for me.

I'm not really clear what you mean by I can have them pay me. Can you please elaborate so I can negotiate better?
The closing costs seem high for that rate, compared to what others are getting. So if you get the closing costs down, the lender credits would exceed your costs, and the difference goes in your pocket (up to the amount allowed, 2k I think?).
bsharin
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:30 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bsharin »

Nebelsieck wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:25 am
bsharin wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:35 am
dsmil wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:19 am
bsharin wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:37 am Long time lurker of the forum. Currently I have a 30 year mortgage that I have had for about a year at 3.65% in Florida. I have been slowly shopping around and gotten several quotes from lenders. This one looks to be the best so far but wanted the opinions of the experts. Better offered me a far lesser discounted points and even with the $2500 statement credit, does not see to be worth it. Thanks in advance and here are the numbers provided to me.

- 30yr @ 2.875%

- Origination Fee $ 1,595.00
- Discount Points $ (7,231.68)
- Appraisal Fee $ 450.00
- Credit Report Fee $ 20.36
- Tax Service Fee $ 70.00
- Flood Certificate Fee $ 10.00
- MERS Registration Fee $ 11.95
- Title-Settlement/Closing Fee $ 500.00
- Title-Lender Title Insurance $ 1,530.00
- Title-Endorsement Fee $ 178.00
- Gov't Recording Fee $ 256.50
- State Tax/Stamps $ 1,701.00
- Intangible Tax $ 972.00
- Fee Total $ 63.13
About a $6k credit at 2.875% is a great deal! What's the loan amount?
Thanks! appreciate the feedback. 486k is my loan amount.
Who's is your lender? I have a similar quote from Loandepot. Better and LenderFi told me that they won't give a lender credit that exceeds the A+B+C closing costs (sounds fishy to me), but LD's credit will take care of my escrow too.

You might want to see if you can get a better rate on title and settlement. Yours seems high unless that's a FL thing. The taxes also seem high - some states only charge that much in taxes for purchase mortgages and not refis, and sometimes the Loan Estimate mixes those up. But again, FL may be different on that count too.
Thanks for the advice. Ill ask. This is from LD.
mt2k
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 8:13 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mt2k »

frugalNY wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:39 am Hi All,
I need a quick decision and I hope you all can help! I'm inclied to take up on the offer and lock in today but need some reassurance.

Finally was able to speak to a LoanDepot loan officer and got below LE. I need to lock in an hour or so to get the deal done. Please advise if this looks good. I'm in NY. My goal was to get low rates and minimize loan cost. Overall, the loan cost to me is on $1900; the rest is covered by lender's credit. The pay back period is only 4 months so if the rate goes down further I can do again possibly.
See details below and advise ASAP.


Current Loan:
with Wells fargo
27 months in for a 30 yr fixed
rate: 3.625
loan original balance: 700K
loan current balance: 660,772.75
P&I:$3192

Proposed Loan by LoanDepot
loan Program: 30 yr fixed
Interest rate: 2.99%
APR: 3.018%

term 30 years (clock back 27 months)
P&I: $2800.08
Debts to be paid off: 660,772.75
Prepaid & reserves: $1416.48
Closing cost: $12,524.81
Discount/Lender Credit: (10,586.80)
Total Loan amount: $665,000.00
Cash to/from borrower: ($872.76)
This deal is good but people on this thread including myself have got better deals. Your loan amount is $4k+ more than the remaining principal and you are paying around $2k in closing.

In my opinion, you should shop around for better deal
frugalNY
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

Thanks everyone for the responses. I really value BH opinions.

mt2k,
Are you in NY? I'm in Nassau county. Who have you worked with to get a better deal then mine? All the other offers came out worse than Loandepot so far.

Also, to clarify, 2k in closing cost is included to the loan amount so in total it's 4k increase (not 6k) to the original loan amount (661->665).

Should I just decline this offer or are there ways to negotiate with this Loandepot guy?

Again thanks so much for the advice.

frugalNY
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 5948
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

frugalNY wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:53 pm Thanks everyone for the responses. I really value BH opinions.

mt2k,
Are you in NY? I'm in Nassau county. Who have you worked with to get a better deal then mine? All the other offers came out worse than Loandepot so far.

Also, to clarify, 2k in closing cost is included to the loan amount so in total it's 4k increase (not 6k) to the original loan amount (661->665).

Should I just decline this offer or are there ways to negotiate with this Loandepot guy?

Again thanks so much for the advice.

frugalNY
What other rates have you gotten from other places?
frugalNY
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

Also the additional 2k includes per diem interest and 850 buffer there is a loan amount inconsistency (wells shows 661 but credit report shows 668).
frugalNY
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

aaron_investor,
I reached out to Better and Quickenloan.

With a human loan officer, Quicken provided 2.875 with 16K loan cost. I never got to a human with Better but their rates are in over 3 with closing cost.
bogledude23
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:27 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bogledude23 »

frugalNY,

The best way to negotiate is to have a Loan Estimate from another lender. If you just go to LD and say "Can you increase the credits?" they have no incentive to do so because chances are you will go with them regardless whether they increase the credits. But if you say "You know, I'd love to lock this rate and move forward with you guys but Lender XYZ gave me this offer and I can't leave money on the table..." Then they're likely to say "Ok, send me the LE and I'll see what I can do."
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 5948
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

frugalNY wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:01 pm aaron_investor,
I reached out to Better and Quickenloan.

With a human loan officer, Quicken provided 2.875 with 16K loan cost. I never got to a human with Better but their rates are in over 3 with closing cost.
Have you tried to get Better to match the current offer your weighing (esp if you are eligible for the $2.5k amex credit from Better).
frugalNY
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

Nope not yet. IT has been difficulet to get someone to talk with Better.

My deadline with LD is in next 15 min - the officer will cancel the loan if I don't go through.

Thinking of bird in hand...bird in bush.....
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 5948
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

frugalNY wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:46 pm Nope not yet. IT has been difficulet to get someone to talk with Better.

My deadline with LD is in next 15 min - the officer will cancel the loan if I don't go through.

Thinking of bird in hand...bird in bush.....
If you are happy with the rate go for it. It is not a competition after all.
bogledude23
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:27 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bogledude23 »

frugalNY,

You can break a rate lock, it's not the end of the world. You can even cancel the loan up to 3 business days AFTER you sign all closing documents (https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfp ... on-en-186/). If you are content with the terms, lock the rate but keep engaging other lenders.

The BEST way to negotiate in my opinion is to have a competing Loan Estimate and request lenders to beat it (not just match). And not beat it by just $50.

My strategy is like this: obtain quotes online to find the best initial rate. Start an application with that lender. Get your credit pulled, provide the necessary info to get an initial LE. Then use that to shop around and get other lenders to bite. If one bites, then you take that back to your original lender. Wash, rinse, repeat. As you do this, you will weed out the majority of players until you get your absolute best rate. It's also best to do this ASAP within 1 business day as lenders want a fresh LE.
frugalNY
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

I've to pay 520 upfront now for appraisal and rate lock to proceed. My guess is that is I cancel with Loandepot, I'll lose that :(
bogledude23
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:27 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bogledude23 »

Which is standard. The main thing is whether this offer is considerably better than the other offers you've received (I hope you did your comparison shopping). If there have been other similar offers, you can justify not locking. But if this is the clear best offer, go ahead and lock. But still be on the lookout.

Even though you're committed to $520, you now at least will have an easier time making a decision if a competing offer beats LD. For example, let's say you lock now and then tomorrow Lender ABC beats LD by $1,000. Sure, you're out $520, but you would net $480. Then you take ABC's LE back to LD. They've likely started the underwriting process and they don't want to renege on a rate lock so they'll work with you to keep you as a customer. So chances are you might not lose that $520 after all :)
barreg
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:49 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by barreg »

I'm just starting the process and have what might be a dumb question. My first application is with LenderFi. They pulled credit and gave conditional approval. Do I need to provide all the necessary documentation (pay stubs, W2's, etc.) first in order to get an actual Lender Estimate?
frugalNY
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

the LD guys just responded that he'll try to get his VP approve another 1900 to make it true no cost refi. I think I'll just go for it. Let's not be the perfect the enemy of good :greedy
frugalNY
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

the LD guys just responded that he'll try to get his VP approve another 1900 to make it true no cost refi. I think I'll just go for it. Let's not be the perfect the enemy of good :greedy
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