First-time victim of credit card fraud

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Post Reply
Topic Author
Viking65
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:20 am

First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by Viking65 »

Hi all,
I had an urgent message from my bank yesterday. Called them and they had flagged 2 suspicious credit card transactions. One was for a single dollar (tester) and then another for about $160 at a SAM's Club the same day. Sure enough, these were definitely not ours. The card number used was DW's spousal card (with a different number) on my account.
The odd thing about all this is that the compromised account is our backup account - we hardly ever use this card. The card itself never leaves our house, and we can, in fact, pinpoint that that the only time this card was used in the last 2 years was to Southwest Airlines this May for air tickets. DW actually gave them the card number over the phone to the SWA rep. Yet, less than 4 months later, it was used in a fraudulent transaction.
The credit card company did all the right things. The card number has been shut down and we will be made whole. This is a first time for me (and yes, I know that I should consider myself lucky in that respect), and I am astonished at how easily these cards can be compromised. I thought I was pretty careful about keeping my numbers secure, but apparently not secure enough. The only 2 options that I can think of are that: (1) SWA database has been breached, or (2) that the SWA agent DW gave the number to sold it illegally. Am I wrong to be pointing the finger at SWA? There is no point in contacting them about this since our card company had handled the issue very competently, but it does lead one to wonder.
livesoft
Posts: 76066
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by livesoft »

There a hundreds of ways to get the number and many of them would not involve SWA. I've had fraud and then the replacement card already had fraudulent charges on it by the time I received it. Go figure that one out.

But what was bought at Sam's? It is often quite interesting what the perps end up buying.
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.
Topic Author
Viking65
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:20 am

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by Viking65 »

livesoft wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:57 am I've had fraud and then the replacement card already had fraudulent charges on it by the time I received it. Go figure that one out.

But what was bought at Sam's? It is often quite interesting what the perps end up buying.
Wow, now that is disturbing! OK, so I'll cut SWA a break if the system is really as porous as you state.

I don't know what they bought, but it was a SAM's club in Southern CA.
BogleMelon
Posts: 2581
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:49 am

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by BogleMelon »

Viking65 wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:55 am The card number used was DW's spousal card (with a different number) on my account.
I didn't know that this is possible. I always thought that it has either to be:
1- different independent account with different number
2- authorized user sharing the same account, but sharing the same number as well.
Just wondering!

Regarding your breach, do you mean that you have never ever used the card before since opening it other than this one time with SW?
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather
User avatar
banhbao
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:54 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by banhbao »

Viking65 wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:55 am One was for a single dollar (tester) and then another for about $160 at a SAM's Club the same day.
I wonder if they were clever enough to use their personal sam's membership card to make the purchase :D
User avatar
munemaker
Posts: 4174
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:14 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by munemaker »

banhbao wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:28 am
Viking65 wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:55 am One was for a single dollar (tester) and then another for about $160 at a SAM's Club the same day.
I wonder if they were clever enough to use their personal sam's membership card to make the purchase :D
Good point. If I were inclined to steal a credit card, I would not use it at a place that requires a membership with a photo id. It probably doesn't matter though. Seems like they are usually interested in catching the perpetrator unless large amounts are involved.
armeliusc
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:40 am

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by armeliusc »

BogleMelon wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:25 am
Viking65 wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:55 am The card number used was DW's spousal card (with a different number) on my account.
I didn't know that this is possible. I always thought that it has either to be:
1- different independent account with different number
2- authorized user sharing the same account, but sharing the same number as well.
Just wondering!
It depends on the bank. For AMEX for example, my DW is authorized user on my account and she got her own account number and so the statement can show which transactions belong to which card. With Chase Visa we share the same number and even 3-digit CVV.

Related to the thread, similar thing has happened to me, so it's not uncommon unfortunately.
User avatar
mmmodem
Posts: 2415
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 1:22 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by mmmodem »

I had credit card fraud on a card I never even activated, let alone used! :confused

The card had expired. They sent me a new one but I never bothered to activate it as I wasn't using it. I was told never to closed credit card accounts as it would hurt your credit score. I was pretty surprised to receive a bill a couple of years later on a card I almost forgot I owned.

The CSR I spoke to was surprised how a charge appeared on my account without the card being activated. These hackers are pretty sophisticated. :annoyed
FreemanB
Posts: 339
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 5:55 am

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by FreemanB »

livesoft wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:57 amBut what was bought at Sam's? It is often quite interesting what the perps end up buying.
From my own experiences and what I've read, the most common purchases are gift cards, which they immediately either sell or use for other purchases, making it almost impossible to track down the money. You also don't need to be a member if you pay a 10% service fee on top of the purchase price. Since Viking65 was picking up the tab for them, I don't think they'd mind the extra charge.

I've lost track of the number of credit cards I've had compromised, since most of the time there was no way to tell where the data was obtained. The first instance I recall was back around 2001(Someone tried to use our card at an online offshore casino), and the most recent was about two weeks ago(5+ AVON purchases for around $50 each, within a few hours). There's no way for you to prevent it, so the only thing to do is make sure you periodically monitor activity for suspicious transactions so you can quickly react to it.
User avatar
FlyAF
Posts: 514
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:14 am

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by FlyAF »

I/we have a card compromised 5-10 times a year. My bank is awesome about it and is aware that we both travel internationally extensively and need access to money, so what can be done? Bank somehow knows immediately that the charges are bogus and denies the transactions and alerts me. I don't know how they can tell instantaneously like that. Like someone mentioned, they're almost always trying to buy gift cards which is how I think banks pick up on it. I've also had them try to buy porn, online video game upgrades to their WOW character, etc......but I'd say 75+% of the time it is best buy and I'm betting more specifically, it's best buy gift cards. It's such a pain, but what can you do?
barnaclebob
Posts: 4445
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:54 am

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by barnaclebob »

This is part of normal life now until the CC companies decide to do something about it. People here have reported cards that have never been used once getting compromised so its probably not SWA's fault.
Last edited by barnaclebob on Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Katietsu
Posts: 4786
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:48 am

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by Katietsu »

Please do not waste anymore time thinking about it. Continue your current practices since it is pretty amazing that this is your first time. But the chance that you will ever know how the number was acquired by the criminals is minuscule. And, as others have said, the use of the card only at SWA does not mean that SWA was at fault.
Nowizard
Posts: 3303
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:33 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by Nowizard »

We have had this occur twice with cancellation of the card, issuing of new ones and investigations leading to making us whole. We have also recently had a large charge denied until we called to verify we had made it. Our experience has been that the CC companies are very good about resolving issues, and we assume that with all the hacks, including those of the credit agencies, that our information is "out there," just as is virtually everyone else's.

Tim
ponyboy
Posts: 1076
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:39 am

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by ponyboy »

Who cares? Ive been a "victim" of credit card fraud like 5 times. Doesnt bother me one bit. Simply call the credit card company, explain the situation, they kill that card and send you a new number. Its not like you're responsible for the charges. Yes, I know they can charge you a fee...they never do tho.

Its so common anymore for credit cards to become compromised...nothing to see here folks.
testing321
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:46 pm
Location: kansas city

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by testing321 »

Sam's club uses chip readers, except on the gas pumps, which should make fraud very difficult.
3-20Characters
Posts: 717
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:20 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by 3-20Characters »

BogleMelon wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:25 am
Viking65 wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:55 am The card number used was DW's spousal card (with a different number) on my account.
I didn't know that this is possible. I always thought that it has either to be:
1- different independent account with different number
2- authorized user sharing the same account, but sharing the same number as well.
Just wondering!
We have several cards with joint account, different card numbers for each card holder. I like that approach the best.
H-Town
Posts: 3556
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:08 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by H-Town »

Viking65 wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:55 am Hi all,
I had an urgent message from my bank yesterday. Called them and they had flagged 2 suspicious credit card transactions. One was for a single dollar (tester) and then another for about $160 at a SAM's Club the same day. Sure enough, these were definitely not ours. The card number used was DW's spousal card (with a different number) on my account.
The odd thing about all this is that the compromised account is our backup account - we hardly ever use this card. The card itself never leaves our house, and we can, in fact, pinpoint that that the only time this card was used in the last 2 years was to Southwest Airlines this May for air tickets. DW actually gave them the card number over the phone to the SWA rep. Yet, less than 4 months later, it was used in a fraudulent transaction.
The credit card company did all the right things. The card number has been shut down and we will be made whole. This is a first time for me (and yes, I know that I should consider myself lucky in that respect), and I am astonished at how easily these cards can be compromised. I thought I was pretty careful about keeping my numbers secure, but apparently not secure enough. The only 2 options that I can think of are that: (1) SWA database has been breached, or (2) that the SWA agent DW gave the number to sold it illegally. Am I wrong to be pointing the finger at SWA? There is no point in contacting them about this since our card company had handled the issue very competently, but it does lead one to wonder.
I had several fraudulent credit card charges. The perp bought $25 Starbucks gift cards... five times on the same day. I'm like... really? Can't you just brew your own coffee and use the stolen card for something worthwhile?

I just let the credit card company know and they took care of it. Don't sweat it. It's the reason why we use credit card for purchases.
User avatar
roymeo
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:19 pm
Location: Oakland, CA
Contact:

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by roymeo »

I once had 2 cards that were held with the same bank get stolen within a week of each other. One was only even ever taken out of the envelope to put it in the box with 10's of others and never used by me. (Ask me about the night I cancelled 100k in credit cards in <$5000 accounts.)
They were used in Australia and Britain, so I now suspect anyone with a Commonwealth accent.

I've had the occasional other misused charge come through, about 50% of the time the bank's telling me about it, 50% I notice something illegitimate.
I've never had to pay such a charge.

Far more often it's a legit charge that I or my spouse can't figure out what the legit purchase was and we're wasting our time protecting the bank.

Yeah, I guess it's a god idea to keep your eye on your statements, but for the most part the banks thank you for your diligence in protecting them. The (US) banks aren't really interested in making fraud harder, they've only been pushed into having the chips after quite a while and prefer "signatures" to something with some sort of actual security value. Don't spend too much of your time protecting your bank from fraud.
The sewer system is a form of welfare state. | -- "Libra", Don DeLillo
User avatar
banhbao
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:54 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by banhbao »

roymeo wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:55 am The (US) banks aren't really interested in making fraud harder, they've only been pushed into having the chips after quite a while and prefer "signatures" to something with some sort of actual security value.
I'm not convinced chip readers are really more secure. Yes, it is more difficult to copy the card. But just to swipe the data... not so sure.

I recently had my card information stolen while traveling in France. I used a gas pump with a chip reader. About 10 minutes down the road I get a call from the credit card company about a suspicious charge. Somehow there were two gas purchases within minutes of each other at the same station. The first was my legitimate charge, the second was for much more and was obviously fraudulent. I'm guessing it was a skimmer placed on the pump and I didn't realize it.

Personally, I think the "chip" solution was only to force merchants to upgrade their card readers and if not, they now take responsibility for fraudulent charges.

[edit]: Here is an article which explains more
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... re-than-m/
"U.S. chip cards are vulnerable because they also employ magnetic stripes...credit card issuers eventually will have to provide EMV cards that have no stripe or stripe-scanning capabilities."
User avatar
djpeteski
Posts: 1039
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:07 am

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by djpeteski »

To me, what strikes me, is the little amount the credit card companies care about fraud. All they care about is getting a new card in your hand as fast as possible. Of course they pass the cost onto the merchant, and that makes me feel a little bad for them.
climbhigh
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 1:54 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by climbhigh »

djpeteski wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:04 pm All they care about is getting a new card in your hand as fast as possible.
I had fraudulent charges on a card two weeks ago. Called Chase at 3pm and they had a new card on my front doorstep by 12 noon the following day (at no cost to me)!
RetiredAL
Posts: 1350
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:09 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by RetiredAL »

Just a few weeks ago, both my and my DW USAA VISA cards were both compromised on the same weekend day by less than $1 charges made in Brazil. Each card has it's own number and they are not sequential, being about 40 apart. My card had not been used in 6 months, DW uses her's every month.

To me, it's obvious that someone was checking card numbers by testing sequential numbers, which you'd think the processing agent's computers would have quickly detected and blocked, long before it it hit the USAA account where USAA immediately detected it. Unlike most transactions which seem to be instantaneous with USAA, there was a 3 day delay between the test charge and when USAA could actually see it. I'm sure the bad guys knew this and were exploiting this lag

Other than this showed up during domestic travel and the minor card replacement hassle to us, it's no skin loss to us. To me, this is why a credit card is used, not our ATM cards. Also, our ATM cards are NOT linked as VISA Debit Cards. Both VISA and/or USAA just consider this to be an operating expense.
123
Posts: 7185
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:55 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by 123 »

livesoft wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:57 am ... I've had fraud and then the replacement card already had fraudulent charges on it by the time I received it. Go figure that one out...
+1 I've had this happen as well. It was even the same merchant (Lyft) which we have never used. Replacement card had new number, new expiration, new security code.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
tibbitts
Posts: 13510
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by tibbitts »

ponyboy wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:49 am Who cares? Ive been a "victim" of credit card fraud like 5 times. Doesnt bother me one bit. Simply call the credit card company, explain the situation, they kill that card and send you a new number. Its not like you're responsible for the charges. Yes, I know they can charge you a fee...they never do tho.

Its so common anymore for credit cards to become compromised...nothing to see here folks.
You care because you want to try to analyze how your account was compromised if you can. For example one of my accounts was compromised by someone by calling the credit card company, and answering my security questions. So I didn't just want a new card, I knew I had to change the security questions. And even if the answers weren't real answers, if I had used those answers elsewhere they'd have to be changed other places too.
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 11524
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by ResearchMed »

banhbao wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:36 pm
roymeo wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:55 am The (US) banks aren't really interested in making fraud harder, they've only been pushed into having the chips after quite a while and prefer "signatures" to something with some sort of actual security value.
I'm not convinced chip readers are really more secure. Yes, it is more difficult to copy the card. But just to swipe the data... not so sure.

I recently had my card information stolen while traveling in France. I used a gas pump with a chip reader. About 10 minutes down the road I get a call from the credit card company about a suspicious charge. Somehow there were two gas purchases within minutes of each other at the same station. The first was my legitimate charge, the second was for much more and was obviously fraudulent. I'm guessing it was a skimmer placed on the pump and I didn't realize it.

Personally, I think the "chip" solution was only to force merchants to upgrade their card readers and if not, they now take responsibility for fraudulent charges.

[edit]: Here is an article which explains more
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... re-than-m/
"U.S. chip cards are vulnerable because they also employ magnetic stripes...credit card issuers eventually will have to provide EMV cards that have no stripe or stripe-scanning capabilities."
I understand if the chip AND magnetic stripe card is used via the stripe, such as if the chip reader isn't functioning (or the vendor doesn't have one yet?).

But IF one *only* inserts the chip end of the card into the chip reader, is there really any exposure of what is on the full stripe that goes down the length of the card?

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
moehoward
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:16 am

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by moehoward »

I've had my CC compromised but never lost money. We figured ours was taken from a restaurant. Since then, we always pay cash at restaurants and gas stations. We also use Virtual CC when doing online purchases.
User avatar
banhbao
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:54 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by banhbao »

ResearchMed wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:27 pm
banhbao wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:36 pm
roymeo wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:55 am The (US) banks aren't really interested in making fraud harder, they've only been pushed into having the chips after quite a while and prefer "signatures" to something with some sort of actual security value.
I'm not convinced chip readers are really more secure. Yes, it is more difficult to copy the card. But just to swipe the data... not so sure.

I recently had my card information stolen while traveling in France. I used a gas pump with a chip reader. About 10 minutes down the road I get a call from the credit card company about a suspicious charge. Somehow there were two gas purchases within minutes of each other at the same station. The first was my legitimate charge, the second was for much more and was obviously fraudulent. I'm guessing it was a skimmer placed on the pump and I didn't realize it.

Personally, I think the "chip" solution was only to force merchants to upgrade their card readers and if not, they now take responsibility for fraudulent charges.

[edit]: Here is an article which explains more
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... re-than-m/
"U.S. chip cards are vulnerable because they also employ magnetic stripes...credit card issuers eventually will have to provide EMV cards that have no stripe or stripe-scanning capabilities."
I understand if the chip AND magnetic stripe card is used via the stripe, such as if the chip reader isn't functioning (or the vendor doesn't have one yet?).

But IF one *only* inserts the chip end of the card into the chip reader, is there really any exposure of what is on the full stripe that goes down the length of the card?

RM
I am by no means an expert in this area. But I read that there is a new device called a "shimmer" which works on EMV cards:
https://www.sparkfun.com/sparkx/blog/2673

I guess there will always be the usual arms race, any time a new "unhackable" device is created you can be sure someone will eventually hack it.
MarkBarb
Posts: 658
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:59 am

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by MarkBarb »

We have a card compromised every year or two. My defense is to have all of my recurring charges go against a card that we never use. The solution isn't perfect, but that card has never been compromised and that saves me the hassle of updating all of those recurring charge accounts.

It seems like two changes would help - requiring PINS and requiring that merchants bring a card reader to the purchaser and never handle the card. Again, they won't solve every problem, but they'd help. It seems obvious that the credit card companies don't care that much about the fraud. I guess the figure that they'd lose more money making the use of a credit card marginally more difficult than they lose from fraud.
wfrobinette
Posts: 1465
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:14 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by wfrobinette »

banhbao wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:28 am
Viking65 wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:55 am One was for a single dollar (tester) and then another for about $160 at a SAM's Club the same day.
I wonder if they were clever enough to use their personal sam's membership card to make the purchase :D
In 1992, I had someone use my CC and order 2K worth of stuff from JC Penny or Sears and had it shipped right to their apartment. The CC company actually pressed charges. I had to give a state to San Fran's finest

in 2003 I had my debit/CC used at a half a dozen places for $600. The perp even booked his/her hotel with it and had a pizza delivered. I called pizza hut to get the address, called the hotel and the quest hadn't checked out yet. I called the cops. Said if the bank made me whole they couldn't do anything. Called credit union and they declined to follow through.
wfrobinette
Posts: 1465
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:14 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by wfrobinette »

MarkBarb wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:22 pm We have a card compromised every year or two. My defense is to have all of my recurring charges go against a card that we never use. The solution isn't perfect, but that card has never been compromised and that saves me the hassle of updating all of those recurring charge accounts.

It seems like two changes would help - requiring PINS and requiring that merchants bring a card reader to the purchaser and never handle the card. Again, they won't solve every problem, but they'd help. It seems obvious that the credit card companies don't care that much about the fraud. I guess the figure that they'd lose more money making the use of a credit card marginally more difficult than they lose from fraud.
The CC company doesn't lose the money to fraud anymore. The merchant accepts all responsibility.
User avatar
roymeo
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:19 pm
Location: Oakland, CA
Contact:

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by roymeo »

moehoward wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:59 pm I've had my CC compromised but never lost money. We figured ours was taken from a restaurant. Since then, we always pay cash at restaurants and gas stations. We also use Virtual CC when doing online purchases.
The banks thank you for your extra effort to protect them from something they're not particularly worried about.

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/01/how ... rd-stolen/
The sewer system is a form of welfare state. | -- "Libra", Don DeLillo
new2bogle
Posts: 1664
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:05 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by new2bogle »

livesoft wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:57 am There a hundreds of ways to get the number and many of them would not involve SWA. I've had fraud and then the replacement card already had fraudulent charges on it by the time I received it. Go figure that one out.
One time I had a fraud related replacement card replaced before it even came in (got an email that yet another card was coming in the mail).
livesoft wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:57 am But what was bought at Sam's? It is often quite interesting what the perps end up buying.
The last time my card number was stolen (not physical card) the perp went and got some fried chicken. I didn't understand that one - how can you buy food at a fast food place when I still have my physical card?
moehoward
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:16 am

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by moehoward »

roymeo wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:52 am
moehoward wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:59 pm I've had my CC compromised but never lost money. We figured ours was taken from a restaurant. Since then, we always pay cash at restaurants and gas stations. We also use Virtual CC when doing online purchases.
The banks thank you for your extra effort to protect them from something they're not particularly worried about.

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/01/how ... rd-stolen/
I agree, the banks don't care. They have a percentage of loss they are willing to accept vs spending money on security. Unfortunately, the banks haven't officially thanked me, but I'm waiting....
User avatar
roymeo
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:19 pm
Location: Oakland, CA
Contact:

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by roymeo »

new2bogle wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:23 pm The last time my card number was stolen (not physical card) the perp went and got some fried chicken. I didn't understand that one - how can you buy food at a fast food place when I still have my physical card?
"They" just need enough of the info that goes into a card and write them to a new card. Chips are supposed to make that harder to forge.

The "they" running that scam are much more likely to be getting numbers from software exploits, cracking databases, or buying them from someone who's done it, not from paying that poor waiter to do something nefarious with your card.
The sewer system is a form of welfare state. | -- "Libra", Don DeLillo
michaeljc70
Posts: 7688
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by michaeljc70 »

livesoft wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:57 am There a hundreds of ways to get the number and many of them would not involve SWA. I've had fraud and then the replacement card already had fraudulent charges on it by the time I received it. Go figure that one out.

But what was bought at Sam's? It is often quite interesting what the perps end up buying.
Exactly. I've had cards that never left my house have fraudulent charges. What about someone at the issuing bank? It could be happening anywhere. It could have been an unreported hack of SWA.

The Sam's thing is interesting. Don't they need a membership card? Seems risky on their part.
Loik098
Posts: 686
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 9:29 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by Loik098 »

Almost every credit card issuer gives you an option to lock and unlock your account. Locking prevents any new purchases/charges from happening.

For cards you rarely use (but still want to keep open), perhaps you should look into these options. Some of the options are better than others, depending on the issuer. Simply unfreeze when you need to use the card.
SR II
Posts: 274
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:37 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by SR II »

Just dealt with two different cards being compromised a couple of weeks ago. First one, I noticed myself on the CC website as two pending charges. The next day, on the other card, the bank sent an email about the fraud. Cleared up both and got new account numbers.

This is probably the fifth or sixth time we've had cards compromised in the last few years.

It is inevitable in this computer age.
User avatar
RickBoglehead
Posts: 5876
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:10 am
Location: In a house

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by RickBoglehead »

This is why we do not use debit cards. We also try to have our ATM cards be only ATM cards, not debit cards, but nowadays that is difficult.

Banks CAN make it more difficult for fraud. They choose not to. Europe is more stringent than the US.

We used to have fraud several times a year, mostly on one card, Fidelity's Amex. When that went away, fraud dropped off... That card was issued by Bank of America.

Every card I own is set to send an email for every charge. That catches fraud quicker. I use virtual cards on websites I am unfamiliar with, or for reoccurring charges that I don't want.

I use credit cards for virtually everything. I want the 2% cashback (or higher). I cannot recall the last cash purchase I made. With a 4 - 5% rebate on gas, I would never consider it, not to mention the wasted time going in and out of the station to pay cash.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
likegarden
Posts: 3056
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:33 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by likegarden »

It is important to check the credit card account for fraud charges. We have two cards with different numbers in the same account at Capital One. My card got charged by crooks twice, once it was $125 gift cards at CVS last December, then $18 for gas at a gas station I never go to on the replacement card. Capital One gave me new cards without problem in a week.
jharkin
Posts: 2719
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:14 am
Location: Boston suburbs

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by jharkin »

I'm glad you sorted it out so easily... You are right - you did get off lucky.

Ive lost track of how many times my cards have been compromised over the last 25 years. The most recent time one of my cards got hit they used it to buy an $800 laptop off Newegg and had it shipped to an industrial park 20 miles from me. I had to go back and forth with the card fraud dept. for a few months signing forms attesting it wasn't me. They even had a printed receipt from newegg... with MY name but a messed up shipment tracking showing that it stopped in NJ before bouncing around a few other states and then getting delivered to that industrial park...

*I* had to suggest to them they go check out the address... ?? :oops:

Anyway, it got fixed, and you will too. Most important thing to do is go check every other card for odd transactions, look at your credit report, and if you have any doubt change all your passwords as well.
Trism
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:34 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by Trism »

One of the main reasons to use a credit card is zero liability to the cardholder for unauthorized use.

The "victim" here is either the bank or the merchant... whichever one ends up eating the cost.
criticalmass
Posts: 1908
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:58 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by criticalmass »

armeliusc wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:37 am
BogleMelon wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:25 am
Viking65 wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:55 am The card number used was DW's spousal card (with a different number) on my account.
I didn't know that this is possible. I always thought that it has either to be:
1- different independent account with different number
2- authorized user sharing the same account, but sharing the same number as well.
Just wondering!
It depends on the bank. For AMEX for example, my DW is authorized user on my account and she got her own account number and so the statement can show which transactions belong to which card. With Chase Visa we share the same number and even 3-digit CVV.
The CVV2 (printed on card back) is a function of the card number, the expiration, and the issuer’s secret key. If all 3 are the same, the 3 digit CVV2 is the same.

The CVV (not 2) is encoded on the card and never printed.
criticalmass
Posts: 1908
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:58 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by criticalmass »

wfrobinette wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:17 pm
MarkBarb wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:22 pm We have a card compromised every year or two. My defense is to have all of my recurring charges go against a card that we never use. The solution isn't perfect, but that card has never been compromised and that saves me the hassle of updating all of those recurring charge accounts.

It seems like two changes would help - requiring PINS and requiring that merchants bring a card reader to the purchaser and never handle the card. Again, they won't solve every problem, but they'd help. It seems obvious that the credit card companies don't care that much about the fraud. I guess the figure that they'd lose more money making the use of a credit card marginally more difficult than they lose from fraud.
The CC company doesn't lose the money to fraud anymore. The merchant accepts all responsibility.
If the merchant accepts EMV, but fraud happens with a non EMV card, the merchant is not responsible. This why it is called a liability shift. The issuer is liable.
MikeG62
Posts: 3683
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by MikeG62 »

FreemanB wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:07 am
I've lost track of the number of credit cards I've had compromised, since most of the time there was no way to tell where the data was obtained. There's no way for you to prevent it, so the only thing to do is make sure you periodically monitor activity for suspicious transactions so you can quickly react to it.
Same for me - although I must admit that it's happened fewer times over the last couple of years than it happened in the years prior to that. Maybe due to enhanced controls (including chip technology) used by the CC companies or just dumb luck.

I have some form of alerts on all my CC's. In many cases, every time a charge is made where the card is not present I get an alert. In other cases (cards I don't use often) I get an alert for any activity on the card. Alerts mostly sent by text to my cell phone. The last several times it happened, I contacted the CC company as soon as the pending charge hit (before their system or process even picked it up).

As someone else said, there is not really much you can do about it. At the end of the day, you are not responsible for the fraudulent charge and once you notify the CC company (many times after you sign some forms attesting to the fact that it was not you or anyone you authorized who made the charge) you are removed from the process and are not provided with any updates as to what was discovered during the ensuing investigation. That is fine since you are kept whole financially so it becomes an issue between the CC company and the merchant.
123 wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:41 pm
livesoft wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:57 am ... I've had fraud and then the replacement card already had fraudulent charges on it by the time I received it. Go figure that one out...
+1 I've had this happen as well. It was even the same merchant (Lyft) which we have never used. Replacement card had new number, new expiration, new security code.
+2 here as well.
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience
Cash
Posts: 1562
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:52 am

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by Cash »

banhbao wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:28 am
Viking65 wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:55 am One was for a single dollar (tester) and then another for about $160 at a SAM's Club the same day.
I wonder if they were clever enough to use their personal sam's membership card to make the purchase :D
These rings are pretty sophisticated. They probably have fraudulent Sam’s Club memberships as well.

As mentioned before, the fraudsters often get thousands of account numbers at a time from the dark web. They then reencode other cards with the fraudulently obtained numbers and try them out until they find a successful one. A lot of the numbers come from hacks. A lot come from skimmers.

Aside from putting recurring transactions on a card whose number seems not to have been compromised, using a different card for everything else (basically assuming that it’s going to be compromised), and sticking to gas stations that use electronic payment (e.g., Exxon/Mobil allows you to pay through their app and I have seen some 711s with Apple Pay), there’s not much else to do besides monitor your statements.
Miakis
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:40 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by Miakis »

It's often a nuisance, but there's not much to be done about it.

Our most recent one was super annoying, because the fraudster linked the credit card to a Paypal account, and since it was then flagged for fraud and it was the same card on my husband's Paypal account, his account also got flagged for fraud, which required several calls to fix.

They used the fraudulent account to buy an Apple watch on Ebay, which was delivered to our house. When we contacted the seller, they said that their insurance requires them to only ship to the billing address, which is why we got it.

That means they had everything - the name, the address, the card number, the cvv code. My guess would be that they got it from a compromised website, but who knows?

A different time, the bank sent a debit card for my husband's business bank account and I asked them to remove the card from the account because we would never use it. They said they couldn't unless he physically walked into the bank and asked, which he never did. So it sat, not activated, in our drawer, and about a week later was used for fraudulent purchases. They asked us all sorts of questions - did we get the card? was it stolen from us? etc etc. I couldn't help but laugh and say, "This one is all on you."
User avatar
munemaker
Posts: 4174
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:14 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by munemaker »

mmmodem wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:38 am I had credit card fraud on a card I never even activated, let alone used! :confused

The card had expired. They sent me a new one but I never bothered to activate it as I wasn't using it. I was told never to closed credit card accounts as it would hurt your credit score. I was pretty surprised to receive a bill a couple of years later on a card I almost forgot I owned.

The CSR I spoke to was surprised how a charge appeared on my account without the card being activated. These hackers are pretty sophisticated. :annoyed
Was this card from Capital One by chance? The same thing happened to me with a GM credit card that I think was issued by Capital One; it as used in Canada. Amazing that I cannot use my card if it is not activated, but someone else who does not even have the card apparently can. The card issuer would not give me any information about how this could happen. Everything is a big secret.

Also, I was wondering who told you not to close your accounts because your score would be damaged?
User avatar
blaugranamd
Posts: 598
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:57 pm
Location: D-lux apt in the sky

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by blaugranamd »

ponyboy wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:49 am Who cares? Ive been a "victim" of credit card fraud like 5 times. Doesnt bother me one bit. Simply call the credit card company, explain the situation, they kill that card and send you a new number. Its not like you're responsible for the charges. Yes, I know they can charge you a fee...they never do tho.

Its so common anymore for credit cards to become compromised...nothing to see here folks.
Yep, sadly I think I have a fraudulent charge about one a year lately it seems. The charge gets refunded and I get a new card and move on. Learn about Google Pay (or similar) services that don't actually share your CC number.
-- Don't mistake more funds for more diversity: Total Int'l + Total Market = 7k to 10k stocks -- | -- Market return does NOT = average nor 50th percentile, rather 80-90th percentile long term ---
User avatar
mmmodem
Posts: 2415
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 1:22 pm

Re: First-time victim of credit card fraud

Post by mmmodem »

munemaker wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:45 am
mmmodem wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:38 am I had credit card fraud on a card I never even activated, let alone used! :confused

The card had expired. They sent me a new one but I never bothered to activate it as I wasn't using it. I was told never to closed credit card accounts as it would hurt your credit score. I was pretty surprised to receive a bill a couple of years later on a card I almost forgot I owned.

The CSR I spoke to was surprised how a charge appeared on my account without the card being activated. These hackers are pretty sophisticated. :annoyed
Was this card from Capital One by chance? The same thing happened to me with a GM credit card that I think was issued by Capital One; it as used in Canada. Amazing that I cannot use my card if it is not activated, but someone else who does not even have the card apparently can. The card issuer would not give me any information about how this could happen. Everything is a big secret.

Also, I was wondering who told you not to close your accounts because your score would be damaged?
Indeed it was a Capital One Sony brand credit card. I used it the one time to purchase a PlayStation 3 to get the discount and promptly forgot about it. While I don't know how my card was hacked, I do know a CSR being paid minimum wage won't know either. I also know that the credit card company has nothing to gain by telling me how it happened. This only announces to the world where the security breach is and decreases customer trust.

Closing old credit cards decreases your credit utilization. I don't care about the anecdotal 10-30 points drop now but fresh out of college, that may have been enough to keep me from getting the lowest interest rates.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=238546
Post Reply