Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
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Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
I am leaving the Bogleheads forum -- a departure likely to be permanent. However, before I leave I wanted to share why I am doing so with my fellow Bogleheads. To keep this actionable, I'd like you to consider the following passages as food for thought as to whether or not you should leave this forum.
I have been enlightened, enthralled, educated, and occasionally miffed at the discussions here. It has been a wild ride, and I have enjoyed my times perusing the many topics. I have had the pleasant experience of familiarizing myself with the thinking of men whose intellect exceeds my own including Larry Swedroe, Taylor Larimore, John Bogle, Rick Ferri, and many others.
Enjoyable as it has been, browsing this forum has done nothing but cause the horizon of my mind to be occluded by the latest in financial research and the stock market. There are constant reminders of the level of the Dow or the latest happenings with cryptocurrencies. There are innumerable threads about factors and international investments. The debates about optimal SCV allocation are interminable. The very act of frequenting this forum defeats the purpose of the Boglehead philosophy: that you shouldn't need to pay any mind to your investments at all. Your money should be beneath you. It should be working for you, silently. It should not be something that is allowed to consume appreciable portions of your mental energy.
Frequenting this forum can only cause you to act. To tinker. To modify and modify until you reach an "optimal" allocation as per the latest factor paper or whatever it may be. The very act of browsing this forum all the time is antithetical to the very principles that our community espouses.
To be a good Boglehead -- to truly live that philosophy of financial zen that passive investing is supposed to bring -- I must leave the Bogleheads forum, and direct my energies towards other matters.
Thank you for the engaging discussions.
I have been enlightened, enthralled, educated, and occasionally miffed at the discussions here. It has been a wild ride, and I have enjoyed my times perusing the many topics. I have had the pleasant experience of familiarizing myself with the thinking of men whose intellect exceeds my own including Larry Swedroe, Taylor Larimore, John Bogle, Rick Ferri, and many others.
Enjoyable as it has been, browsing this forum has done nothing but cause the horizon of my mind to be occluded by the latest in financial research and the stock market. There are constant reminders of the level of the Dow or the latest happenings with cryptocurrencies. There are innumerable threads about factors and international investments. The debates about optimal SCV allocation are interminable. The very act of frequenting this forum defeats the purpose of the Boglehead philosophy: that you shouldn't need to pay any mind to your investments at all. Your money should be beneath you. It should be working for you, silently. It should not be something that is allowed to consume appreciable portions of your mental energy.
Frequenting this forum can only cause you to act. To tinker. To modify and modify until you reach an "optimal" allocation as per the latest factor paper or whatever it may be. The very act of browsing this forum all the time is antithetical to the very principles that our community espouses.
To be a good Boglehead -- to truly live that philosophy of financial zen that passive investing is supposed to bring -- I must leave the Bogleheads forum, and direct my energies towards other matters.
Thank you for the engaging discussions.
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
A “good boglehead” (whatever that means) should be able to tune out the noise.
In before the lock
In before the lock
Mid-40’s
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
One reason to stay: passing on the wisdom and knowledge.
But all the threads that seem to be taking over and the new accounts can be overwhelming. TSLA, GME, BTC. Triple-leveraged anti-correlated funds.
Was this forum even active in 1999-2000? In other words, had the forum ever been through a major bubble? (Not that we are necessarily in or going to be in a bubble, but chances are a bubble will form at some point in the future.)
I hope to one day join you in peaceful refuge at the cloud-enshrined temple in the mountains.
But all the threads that seem to be taking over and the new accounts can be overwhelming. TSLA, GME, BTC. Triple-leveraged anti-correlated funds.
Was this forum even active in 1999-2000? In other words, had the forum ever been through a major bubble? (Not that we are necessarily in or going to be in a bubble, but chances are a bubble will form at some point in the future.)
I hope to one day join you in peaceful refuge at the cloud-enshrined temple in the mountains.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
My dogecoin post was the last straw, wasn’t it?
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
Frequenting this forum gives me comfort to not act from knowledgeable folks. "Don't just do something! Stand there!" The posts from Taylor Larimore on the 3 fund portfolio cannot be more clear to keep it simple. Perhaps you've missed the message. Good luck, friend. I find frequenting this forum to neither be antithetical nor a requisite to follow BogleHead principles.All Seasons wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:34 am Frequenting this forum can only cause you to act. To tinker. To modify and modify until you reach an "optimal" allocation as per the latest factor paper or whatever it may be. The very act of browsing this forum all the time is antithetical to the very principles that our community espouses.
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
Should there be an "Active Investing, Speculation, and Gambling" forum where all that stuff should go?
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
I just skip over the threads that don't interest me and read through the one's that do. That way I don't have to "leave" to leave.
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
Cha ching
Don’t let anyone else ruin your portfolio. It’s your portfolio. Ruin it yourself!!!
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
Discussions on the forum tend to fall into distinct categories, including
- intensely practical advice concerning someone's particular investment options, tax situations, etc.
- highly theoretical discussions concerning how many basis points can dance on the bend point of an efficient frontier.
- heated discussions of the current New Thing (or Things), with the enthusiasts complaining that the skeptics Just Don't Understand.
- light bulbs, coffee makers, the best way to cook oatmeal, etc.
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
I think you missed the purpose of Bogleheads. Your description is not how I see it.
[OT comment removed by moderator prudent]
* Live below your means (and save the rest)
* Pay off debt
* Establish an emergency fund
* Save early and regularly
* Keep it Simple
* Costs matter
* Diversify
* Tune out the "noise"
After a while, I started noticing that after you have met your needs for the future and you have "extra" money, you can then consider 5% or 10% of your portfolio as "play money" and invest it in individual stocks or anything else. But this should only be for money you can afford to lose. So sometimes we talk about that.
I see the purpose of this forum as not just re-enforcing these principles (because you can get that from reading a Bogleheads book), but also helping each other by sharing your portfolio or some financial plans, getting the best value when you spend as a consumer, understanding how to fill out and file your tax return and the changing tax laws, how to understand insurance plans, Medicare, SS, RMDs, and planning for long-term care and leaving your assets to your heirs. If you will never guide a "new" adult towards college, need to plan your Health Care DPOA, upgrade your career, re-balance your portfolio, answer someone else's questions, take advantage of tax credits, or buy a new car or appliance, maybe you don't need Bogleheads.
This forum is not for everyone. Only you can tell if it meets your needs. If it doesn't or all your needs are already covered and you will never need to adjust them, we understand that you can make better use of your time elsewhere.
I wish you success and good health.
[OT comment removed by moderator prudent]
The above is not the Bogleheads philosophy, but possibly a by-product. Bogleheads believe in:...the purpose of the Boglehead philosophy: that you shouldn't need to pay any mind to your investments at all. Your money should be beneath you. It should be working for you, silently. It should not be something that is allowed to consume appreciable portions of your mental energy.
* Live below your means (and save the rest)
* Pay off debt
* Establish an emergency fund
* Save early and regularly
* Keep it Simple
* Costs matter
* Diversify
* Tune out the "noise"
After a while, I started noticing that after you have met your needs for the future and you have "extra" money, you can then consider 5% or 10% of your portfolio as "play money" and invest it in individual stocks or anything else. But this should only be for money you can afford to lose. So sometimes we talk about that.
I see the purpose of this forum as not just re-enforcing these principles (because you can get that from reading a Bogleheads book), but also helping each other by sharing your portfolio or some financial plans, getting the best value when you spend as a consumer, understanding how to fill out and file your tax return and the changing tax laws, how to understand insurance plans, Medicare, SS, RMDs, and planning for long-term care and leaving your assets to your heirs. If you will never guide a "new" adult towards college, need to plan your Health Care DPOA, upgrade your career, re-balance your portfolio, answer someone else's questions, take advantage of tax credits, or buy a new car or appliance, maybe you don't need Bogleheads.
This forum is not for everyone. Only you can tell if it meets your needs. If it doesn't or all your needs are already covered and you will never need to adjust them, we understand that you can make better use of your time elsewhere.
I wish you success and good health.
A dollar in Roth is worth more than a dollar in a taxable account. A dollar in taxable is worth more than a dollar in a tax-deferred account.
- LiveSimple
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
OP, sure you have made the decision, however this forum has helped me on other things in life such as kids college selection, 529 how to start abs manage, mid life career changes, relocation, staple foods, etc.
You cannot get this perspective who have experienced before.
Yes I have designed our portfolio based on this forum and our thoughts abs stay to it. Also to be honest learned about Tesla and ARK funds and about leverages, but skipped them all except for ARK.
Many times this forum did hand hold me on the life topics, I am sure I may have helped others as well in their discussions.
In the end I learned to learn from others and make my own decisions based on those learnings, best wishes to you.
You cannot get this perspective who have experienced before.
Yes I have designed our portfolio based on this forum and our thoughts abs stay to it. Also to be honest learned about Tesla and ARK funds and about leverages, but skipped them all except for ARK.
Many times this forum did hand hold me on the life topics, I am sure I may have helped others as well in their discussions.
In the end I learned to learn from others and make my own decisions based on those learnings, best wishes to you.
Invest when you have the money, sell when you need the money, for real life expenses...
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
I think I have just the opposite attitude toward this forum: I see it as a way to remind myself of the economic perils of straying from the Boglehead path.
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
I get what you are saying and if you have to leave to make it work for you, I think it's great you came to that realization.All Seasons wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:34 am To be a good Boglehead -- to truly live that philosophy of financial zen that passive investing is supposed to bring -- I must leave the Bogleheads forum, and direct my energies towards other matters.
Thank you for the engaging discussions.
I actually love reading about all of the financial topics including the current "flavor of the month" topics. However, I never act on any of it, I just enjoy reading, learning and debating. I follow the philosophy and it works so I have no reason to change.
I also enjoy adding my thoughts and experiences to those looking for guidance and asking questions. It's not just about me, but also about what I can do to help others. That is another valuable aspect of the forum.
Again, you have to do what is best for you. I don't think it's possible to go anywhere in today's environment and not run into a lot of noise. That is just the way it is today. I think we just have to adapt.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
There are only so many ways to discuss a 3 fund portfolio. I wouldn't enjoy a forum that was strictly BH investors with 100 BH portfolios and stable household budgets.
All that other junk is what's fun to talk about day to day.
All that other junk is what's fun to talk about day to day.
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
+1 to what Celia said.
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
OP, if I were you, then I'd leave too. My investment strategy hasn't changed for 10+ yrs (perhaps 20 yrs).
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
A solid Boglehead has mastered his emotions, has a balanced outlook on life and is not overwhelmed by financial data and information.All Seasons wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:34 am I am leaving the Bogleheads forum -- a departure likely to be permanent. However, before I leave I wanted to share why I am doing so with my fellow Bogleheads. To keep this actionable, I'd like you to consider the following passages as food for thought as to whether or not you should leave this forum.
I have been enlightened, enthralled, educated, and occasionally miffed at the discussions here. It has been a wild ride, and I have enjoyed my times perusing the many topics. I have had the pleasant experience of familiarizing myself with the thinking of men whose intellect exceeds my own including Larry Swedroe, Taylor Larimore, John Bogle, Rick Ferri, and many others.
Enjoyable as it has been, browsing this forum has done nothing but cause the horizon of my mind to be occluded by the latest in financial research and the stock market. There are constant reminders of the level of the Dow or the latest happenings with cryptocurrencies. There are innumerable threads about factors and international investments. The debates about optimal SCV allocation are interminable. The very act of frequenting this forum defeats the purpose of the Boglehead philosophy: that you shouldn't need to pay any mind to your investments at all. Your money should be beneath you. It should be working for you, silently. It should not be something that is allowed to consume appreciable portions of your mental energy.
Frequenting this forum can only cause you to act. To tinker. To modify and modify until you reach an "optimal" allocation as per the latest factor paper or whatever it may be. The very act of browsing this forum all the time is antithetical to the very principles that our community espouses.
To be a good Boglehead -- to truly live that philosophy of financial zen that passive investing is supposed to bring -- I must leave the Bogleheads forum, and direct my energies towards other matters.
Thank you for the engaging discussions.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
"This forum is not for everyone." You have hit the nail squarely. It takes significant time to look at headers and read through posts of interest. I'd like to point out that one could simply post a question of self-interest and just read the responses in that continue conversation as one prefers. On any forum you have to divide and limit your time, or discussions just devolve into a cloud of white noise. It's like drinking from a firehose for many, I propose.celia wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:51 am I think you missed the purpose of Bogleheads. Your description is not how I see it.
Women can think as well as men, maybe even better. They contribute to this forum too, but often you can't tell the gender of the writer.All Seasons wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:34 am I have had the pleasant experience of familiarizing myself with the thinking of men whose intellect exceeds my own including Larry Swedroe, Taylor Larimore, John Bogle, Rick Ferri, and many others.
The above is not the Bogleheads philosophy, but possibly a by-product. Bogleheads believe in:...the purpose of the Boglehead philosophy: that you shouldn't need to pay any mind to your investments at all. Your money should be beneath you. It should be working for you, silently. It should not be something that is allowed to consume appreciable portions of your mental energy.
* Live below your means (and save the rest)
* Pay off debt
* Establish an emergency fund
* Save early and regularly
* Keep it Simple
* Costs matter
* Diversify
* Tune out the "noise"
After a while, I started noticing that after you have met your needs for the future and you have "extra" money, you can then consider 5% or 10% of your portfolio as "play money" and invest it in individual stocks or anything else. But this should only be for money you can afford to lose. So sometimes we talk about that.
I see the purpose of this forum as not just re-enforcing these principles (because you can get that from reading a Bogleheads book), but also helping each other by sharing your portfolio or some financial plans, getting the best value when you spend as a consumer, understanding how to fill out and file your tax return and the changing tax laws, how to understand insurance plans, Medicare, SS, RMDs, and planning for long-term care and leaving your assets to your heirs. If you will never guide a "new" adult towards college, need to plan your Health Care DPOA, upgrade your career, re-balance your portfolio, answer someone else's questions, take advantage of tax credits, or buy a new car or appliance, maybe you don't need Bogleheads.
This forum is not for everyone. Only you can tell if it meets your needs. If it doesn't or all your needs are already covered and you will never need to adjust them, we understand that you can make better use of your time elsewhere.
I wish you success and good health.
OP, in the early year(s) of forum life it is possible to simply internalize the philosophy, and put it into practice. No need to really come back at all unless you have a specific question or advice given is not clear enough.
But many look at an investment forum as social media for the masses and kinda-off-target topics are plentiful. You're gonna hear about bitcoin everywhere you go on the internet, so what not read a dozen bitcoin reactions here?
Down off my soapbox now, and I wish everyone continuing fortune.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
I see fast food joints all the time, but I drive by them and don't stop.....
if you are truly struggling with self control (where it makes it difficult not to act on this risky investments in this case), maybe therapy would help get over your struggles?
As some have said, you probably could do more good than bad by staying.
if you are truly struggling with self control (where it makes it difficult not to act on this risky investments in this case), maybe therapy would help get over your struggles?
As some have said, you probably could do more good than bad by staying.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
I've been here just a few weeks and 2nd your opinion. Old bellwethers tamp the recency back down where it belongs. OP just needs a perspective shift.finite_difference wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:59 am One reason to stay: passing on the wisdom and knowledge.
Was this forum even active in 1999-2000? In other words, had the forum ever been through a major bubble?
I'm here for dividend abuse
I think it's fun to read what an idiot I am for enjoying dividends from my passive funds followed closely by how dumb it is not to be spending more than I am able to.
But seriously...I've stumbled across some great ideas, insights here that I otherwise wouldn't have seen.
But seriously...I've stumbled across some great ideas, insights here that I otherwise wouldn't have seen.
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
Yes. The "5% Forum". Or the "Funny Money" forum.
And the mods can simply instantly delete all the self-righteous fanatical zealot posts so that people can have an intelligent discussion about a topic they find interesting without being insulted or run off, like has happened with HEDGEFUNDIE and others.
I mainly use these forums for recommendations on the best yacht wax, monocle polish and leather shoes that don't crease.
TNWoods
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
Congrats on reaching that level of financial enlightenment. (Is it proper etiquette to offer congratulations on reaching a new level of enlightenment?) I haven't even got close. While I think I have made some progress, life changes. New questions emerge. And financial zen to me becomes a constantly receding horizon.All Seasons wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:34 am to truly live that philosophy of financial zen that passive investing is supposed to bring -- I must leave the Bogleheads forum, and direct my energies towards other matters.
I find that this forum offers helpful suggestions and spirited discussions on questions I've yet to answer and more likely yet to encounter. And that's why I visit - from time to time.
Congrats and best wishes.
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course. Die anyway. - PS: The cavalry isn't coming, kids. You are on your own.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
Forums exist as a gathering point to:
Learn and grow with humility
Help with sincerity and compassion
Entertain or be entertained
Opine and Opinonion (whether useful or not or pleasure in venting, expousing, soapboxing, etc)
Comiserate (whether confirmation bias, etc, similar to opinonioning for its own sake but mutually reinforcing)
Reinforce or construct an identity, or other things from the world of "behavioral psychology".
Etc.
When a forum is no longer personally rewarding, beneficial, or fun, then there are others that might be a better fit at the time, but, as everyone is dynamically changing by the hour, that changes and evolves, or cycles, as well.
OP: I'm responding to this post because I'm curious and inquisitive. . . . why post "Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave the Bogleheads Forum"?
j
Learn and grow with humility
Help with sincerity and compassion
Entertain or be entertained
Opine and Opinonion (whether useful or not or pleasure in venting, expousing, soapboxing, etc)
Comiserate (whether confirmation bias, etc, similar to opinonioning for its own sake but mutually reinforcing)
Reinforce or construct an identity, or other things from the world of "behavioral psychology".
Etc.
When a forum is no longer personally rewarding, beneficial, or fun, then there are others that might be a better fit at the time, but, as everyone is dynamically changing by the hour, that changes and evolves, or cycles, as well.
OP: I'm responding to this post because I'm curious and inquisitive. . . . why post "Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave the Bogleheads Forum"?
j
Last edited by Sandtrap on Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
I'm more interested in retirement stories than investment advices. How and when did people decid to retire? What do they do in their retirement? What are the outcomes of their retirement?
Furthermore, I also need something to kill the boring time. I'm not retired, but I just have too much time.
If you are busy, there is no need to hang on here to "learn" more investment strategies beyond the basics, because there is not much.
Furthermore, I also need something to kill the boring time. I'm not retired, but I just have too much time.
If you are busy, there is no need to hang on here to "learn" more investment strategies beyond the basics, because there is not much.
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
Seems extreme. All or nothing as opposed to just visiting less frequently
Last edited by Ramjet on Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
IMO absolutely...
If you go on r/Bogleheads on Reddit, it's a lot more about Bogleheads philosophy than this website is today. The reason for that is that people who are into speculating (which it seems like almost everyone is now) have their own space to talk about speculation rather than filling the Bogleheads forum.
I agree with OP, I love this site and I do like coming on here to talk about anything related to passive investing. But it's just so filled with clutter now it feels like I'm searching for actual passive investing threads to learn from.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
The investing discussions are interesting, and a well-thought-out position is strengthened by having it challenged. If you're tempted to tinker every time you read the forum, maybe you're not the "Good Boglehead". The only tinkering I've done after reading the forum has been in my spreadsheet regarding taxes, Roth conversion strategies, etc. I like to talk investing here, but I'm not really here for the investing advice. Indexing is easy.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
I don't agree with the approach you are taking, even though I do agree with what I see happening more on this forum. I have beena member for a while now, and it seems to me, that these "tinkering" threads are gaining a lot of traction here. Which in my mind is unfortunate. What is boring can not make any noise; passive investment is as exciting as watching paint dry. The threads I am referring to, are clearly not boring owing to the interest and will drive more traffic here of those who agree.All Seasons wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:34 am
Enjoyable as it has been, browsing this forum has done nothing but cause the horizon of my mind to be occluded by the latest in financial research and the stock market. There are constant reminders of the level of the Dow or the latest happenings with cryptocurrencies. There are innumerable threads about factors and international investments. The debates about optimal SCV allocation are interminable. The very act of frequenting this forum defeats the purpose of the Boglehead philosophy: that you shouldn't need to pay any mind to your investments at all. Your money should be beneath you. It should be working for you, silently. It should not be something that is allowed to consume appreciable portions of your mental energy.
Frequenting this forum can only cause you to act. To tinker. To modify and modify until you reach an "optimal" allocation as per the latest factor paper or whatever it may be. The very act of browsing this forum all the time is antithetical to the very principles that our community espouses.
Separating out those threads into a sub-forum would be am admission that a part of this community believes and practices "non-bogleheadish" investment strategies, whatever they may be. And doing that could push more traffic towards such a sub-forum, making the problem worse for community and what its trying to push for/teach.
Last edited by TheOscarGuy on Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
I think this is well said and agree completely. I've learned a lot from this forum and continue to do so and enjoy checking in several times a day. I skip the posts that I'm not interested in, reply to some, and simply digest and learn from many others. In my 10 years I don't recall a single instance when I felt the need to act based on something I read that day. Maybe you've been visiting too often? Best wishes to you. My guess is you'll be back. This Boglehead is staying and staying the course!WarAdmiral wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:36 amA solid Boglehead has mastered his emotions, has a balanced outlook on life and is not overwhelmed by financial data and information.All Seasons wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:34 am I am leaving the Bogleheads forum -- a departure likely to be permanent. However, before I leave I wanted to share why I am doing so with my fellow Bogleheads. To keep this actionable, I'd like you to consider the following passages as food for thought as to whether or not you should leave this forum.
I have been enlightened, enthralled, educated, and occasionally miffed at the discussions here. It has been a wild ride, and I have enjoyed my times perusing the many topics. I have had the pleasant experience of familiarizing myself with the thinking of men whose intellect exceeds my own including Larry Swedroe, Taylor Larimore, John Bogle, Rick Ferri, and many others.
Enjoyable as it has been, browsing this forum has done nothing but cause the horizon of my mind to be occluded by the latest in financial research and the stock market. There are constant reminders of the level of the Dow or the latest happenings with cryptocurrencies. There are innumerable threads about factors and international investments. The debates about optimal SCV allocation are interminable. The very act of frequenting this forum defeats the purpose of the Boglehead philosophy: that you shouldn't need to pay any mind to your investments at all. Your money should be beneath you. It should be working for you, silently. It should not be something that is allowed to consume appreciable portions of your mental energy.
Frequenting this forum can only cause you to act. To tinker. To modify and modify until you reach an "optimal" allocation as per the latest factor paper or whatever it may be. The very act of browsing this forum all the time is antithetical to the very principles that our community espouses.
To be a good Boglehead -- to truly live that philosophy of financial zen that passive investing is supposed to bring -- I must leave the Bogleheads forum, and direct my energies towards other matters.
Thank you for the engaging discussions.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
+1celia wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:51 am I think you missed the purpose of Bogleheads. Your description is not how I see it.
Women can think as well as men, maybe even better. They contribute to this forum too, but often you can't tell the gender of the writer.All Seasons wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:34 am I have had the pleasant experience of familiarizing myself with the thinking of men whose intellect exceeds my own including Larry Swedroe, Taylor Larimore, John Bogle, Rick Ferri, and many others.
The above is not the Bogleheads philosophy, but possibly a by-product. Bogleheads believe in:...the purpose of the Boglehead philosophy: that you shouldn't need to pay any mind to your investments at all. Your money should be beneath you. It should be working for you, silently. It should not be something that is allowed to consume appreciable portions of your mental energy.
* Live below your means (and save the rest)
* Pay off debt
* Establish an emergency fund
* Save early and regularly
* Keep it Simple
* Costs matter
* Diversify
* Tune out the "noise"
After a while, I started noticing that after you have met your needs for the future and you have "extra" money, you can then consider 5% or 10% of your portfolio as "play money" and invest it in individual stocks or anything else. But this should only be for money you can afford to lose. So sometimes we talk about that.
I see the purpose of this forum as not just re-enforcing these principles (because you can get that from reading a Bogleheads book), but also helping each other by sharing your portfolio or some financial plans, getting the best value when you spend as a consumer, understanding how to fill out and file your tax return and the changing tax laws, how to understand insurance plans, Medicare, SS, RMDs, and planning for long-term care and leaving your assets to your heirs. If you will never guide a "new" adult towards college, need to plan your Health Care DPOA, upgrade your career, re-balance your portfolio, answer someone else's questions, take advantage of tax credits, or buy a new car or appliance, maybe you don't need Bogleheads.
This forum is not for everyone. Only you can tell if it meets your needs. If it doesn't or all your needs are already covered and you will never need to adjust them, we understand that you can make better use of your time elsewhere.
I wish you success and good health.
BarbBrooklyn |
"The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."
- tennisplyr
- Posts: 3703
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- Location: Sarasota, FL
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
Personally I would never let others negatively influence what I do...I can't control others' actions but I can control how I react to them!
Last edited by tennisplyr on Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
“Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.” -Retired 13 years 😀
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
The flaw in your argument appears to be that you think everyone reacts the same way that you do.All Seasons wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:34 am Frequenting this forum can only cause you to act. To tinker. To modify and modify until you reach an "optimal" allocation as per the latest factor paper or whatever it may be.
Good luck. Have a good life.
This isn't just my wallet. It's an organizer, a memory and an old friend.
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
I don’t want to only interact with people who have the same ideas as I do. I want to be exposed to different ideas, to different ways of looking at things. Maybe I’ll accept the alternate way of looking at things, and maybe I won’t.
I figure that if I stop learning and growing, I start into decline. I want to keep learning.
I also gathered some specialized learning from my working career that allows me to give my thoughts on certain financial products based on solid knowledge. I enjoy sharing my opinions with others from a position of knowledge.
I figure that if I stop learning and growing, I start into decline. I want to keep learning.
I also gathered some specialized learning from my working career that allows me to give my thoughts on certain financial products based on solid knowledge. I enjoy sharing my opinions with others from a position of knowledge.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
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- Location: St. Louis
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
Our pastor says no church is prefect. No forum is perfect either. This is the best one you will find.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
I don't get the drama. I've never started a thread about leaving a forum. A forum either works for you or not. Stay, go or intermittent, no one cares.
And I don't get the drama about Flavor of the Month posts. If you don't care about the GameStop or the Great Adventure, just skip the thread.
We plan. G-d laughs.
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
I'm so grateful that participation in this forum is voluntary. I hope it will stay that way.
While the moments do summersaults into eternity |
Cling to their coattails and beg them to stay - Townes Van Zandt
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
I like this idea - especially phrased as a "Fun Money" forum, because, knowing Bogleheads, there will be endless arguments as to what construes "Active Investment".
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
Too bad... this is a great community. I browse most days and usually learn something new.
Just a few examples of amazing things I have learned here:
- How to enable ACH transfers into my 401k
- How to roll over basis from a IRA to a Roth IRA and the proper tax reporting for that
- Why it’s mathematically impossible to “beat the market” without using index funds (this reminds me not to tinker)
- How to tax-loss harvest and avoid wash sales
- How to set up a “mega-backdoor” Roth IRA
- How to diagnose and test water pressure in my house (had some very helpful discussions with engineers on here)
- How to make evening meals more exciting (this has been a great topic since being stuck at home)
- Where to get good deals on household appliances
Just ignore the threads you don’t want to read...
Just a few examples of amazing things I have learned here:
- How to enable ACH transfers into my 401k
- How to roll over basis from a IRA to a Roth IRA and the proper tax reporting for that
- Why it’s mathematically impossible to “beat the market” without using index funds (this reminds me not to tinker)
- How to tax-loss harvest and avoid wash sales
- How to set up a “mega-backdoor” Roth IRA
- How to diagnose and test water pressure in my house (had some very helpful discussions with engineers on here)
- How to make evening meals more exciting (this has been a great topic since being stuck at home)
- Where to get good deals on household appliances
Just ignore the threads you don’t want to read...
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- Posts: 2533
- Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:26 am
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
I think it is the non BHs who make up the interesting part of this forum. When some BHs post they simply say things like, stay the course, nobody knows nothing. All platitudes that have me wonder why are they even posting.
This forum is full of indecisive people, techies who lose me by their arcane analysis, newbies asking same old, same old, artful tax manipulators, humblebraggers, save a penny on a thousand people, trolls, and miscreants of all financial sizes.
That’s what makes it so great.
So, while I do feel like the OP many times, I would never ban myself from opening this forum because then I would have ostracized myself and will look a fool to return. Better to opt out silently. Ghost away.
This forum is full of indecisive people, techies who lose me by their arcane analysis, newbies asking same old, same old, artful tax manipulators, humblebraggers, save a penny on a thousand people, trolls, and miscreants of all financial sizes.
That’s what makes it so great.
So, while I do feel like the OP many times, I would never ban myself from opening this forum because then I would have ostracized myself and will look a fool to return. Better to opt out silently. Ghost away.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
And just wait until it’s time for you to start researching Social Security and Medicare!Pete12 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:40 am Too bad... this is a great community. I browse most days and usually learn something new.
Just a few examples of amazing things I have learned here:
- How to enable ACH transfers into my 401k
- How to roll over basis from a IRA to a Roth IRA and the proper tax reporting for that
- Why it’s mathematically impossible to “beat the market” without using index funds (this reminds me not to tinker)
- How to tax-loss harvest and avoid wash sales
- How to set up a “mega-backdoor” Roth IRA
- How to diagnose and test water pressure in my house (had some very helpful discussions with engineers on here)
- How to make evening meals more exciting (this has been a great topic since being stuck at home)
- Where to get good deals on household appliances
Just ignore the threads you don’t want to read...
The information and help that you will get here is absolutely invaluable!
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
If the world and our lives were static, I would agree. But as the rules of investing have changed and I have grown with my family, my investing needs have changed. This website has been invaluable when I have had (and still have) questions along the way. Tax law changes, college savings, retirement planning are just a few examples of such topics where I have benefited. Hopefully I have helped a few along the way too.
I have been here over 20 years. This seems like a good time to say thank you Bogleheads!
I have been here over 20 years. This seems like a good time to say thank you Bogleheads!
Mark
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
I don't think that a good Boglehead must leave the forum. One needn't look any further than Taylor for an example of a person who is endlessly respectful, patient, welcoming and consistent at representing Mr. Bogle's views.
- Tim
- Tim
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- Posts: 2212
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:49 pm
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
It's important to know thyself. Not everyone can tune out the noise. Some find the reassurance and information that are available on this forum to be more helpful than the temptations. Some have the time and energy to contribute and pass on help to others. Given what you know about yourself, your chosen course of action sounds very wise.All Seasons wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:34 am To be a good Boglehead -- to truly live that philosophy of financial zen that passive investing is supposed to bring -- I must leave the Bogleheads forum, and direct my energies towards other matters.
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
Goodbye and good luck.
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
Even gambling and speculation topics are addressed here with thoughtful discussion. You can't find it anywhere else on the internet.
When I wanted to understand what was happening with GME, this forum was the the place to go. Yes sometimes there is noise; however, for the most part the conversations have substance (thanks mods!).
When I wanted to understand what was happening with GME, this forum was the the place to go. Yes sometimes there is noise; however, for the most part the conversations have substance (thanks mods!).
Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum
All complex topics increase in their complexity based on the importance they receive by the individual combined with the absence of information that reduces certainty with decision making. Basically, the Boglehead concepts are extremely valuable guidelines but not absolute. If being a "Good Boglehead" requires an absolute viewpoint, then agreed that there is no need to come to this or any other investment forum. Some of us just have to slog along using most of the principles of this wonderful forum and occasionally change our views with different investment seasons while attending to those threads that aid in doing so. Just one opinion, of course, and accompanied with best wishes for your investing future.
Tim
Tim