Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

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jarjarM
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by jarjarM »

birdog wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:38 am
random_walker_77 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:12 am
All Seasons wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:34 am To be a good Boglehead -- to truly live that philosophy of financial zen that passive investing is supposed to bring -- I must leave the Bogleheads forum, and direct my energies towards other matters.
It's important to know thyself. Not everyone can tune out the noise. Some find the reassurance and information that are available on this forum to be more helpful than the temptations. Some have the time and energy to contribute and pass on help to others. Given what you know about yourself, your chosen course of action sounds very wise.
This. Know thyself.
+2 on this, best to leave if you can't tune out the noise. I myself find it engaging and intellectually challenging to look at all available information in aggregate before making decisions. This forum provides that (both the pro/cons of leverage/bitcoin/GME mess and etc) and it makes my pseudo-boglehead conviction stronger. :beer
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Kenkat
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Kenkat »

WildBill wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:33 am
SethJane42 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:58 am OP has evolved into a Bogleheadian being of pure light. A Bogluminescentian. Only very few reach this level. I can only hope someday that I can leave the darkness of my impure AAPL position with the cost basis of 13.45, and become Bogluminescent like OP. I hate myself for my weakness.
Howdy

Know ye that with crisis doth come opportunity, at the risk of sacrifice of long held purpose and strongly held conviction. In the age of the DOTCOM and in the throes of panic of the ensuing collapse that did grip the world I wavered and did chase false prophecy, taking up AMAT and GLW at 3 and 1.

Now I do repent and divest them, at 110 and 38.

I will not heed the siren call of the Elon, and vow to sin no more, unless valuations doth get really good again 😀

And as I bide my time I will be constant with Bogleheads, where I have been oft amused and instructed, and learned to render less to Caesar with artful contrivance.

W B
Ah, I do love some dry, satirical humor. Well done to the both of you!
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celia
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by celia »

manlymatt83 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:05 am
bog007 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:58 am
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:51 am
JustinR wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:27 am Should there be an "Active Investing, Speculation, and Gambling" forum where all that stuff should go?
Bingo!
Cha ching
I second this.
I don’t understand how this would help as every time I come here, I would see the ‘risky’ threads since I always start the on this page.


And if you are a “good Boglehead”, you would “tune out the ‘noise’”.

As for me, I’m proud to be a life-long learner. If I’m interested in something, I want to know more about it. I’m weird in some ways in that I’ll shop for a car and just be done with it and don’t care what makes it run. But if you leave me an Inherited Roth IRA, I will dissect and re-build it, learn about it’s RMDs (pre-2020), how to wring more growth out of it, figure out how to specify beneficiaries different than what my trust says, and figure out when to remove more than the RMD so it has the least impact on my other Roth conversions.
A dollar in Roth is worth more than a dollar in a taxable account. A dollar in taxable is worth more than a dollar in a tax-deferred account.
BogleFan510
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by BogleFan510 »

Celia's post was excellent. +1

Years ago I took a 4 or 5 year break. It was a good decision. Thanks for your contributions and feel welcome to return.

Also, referring the uneducated to visit is a good deed.

Best regards.
Da5id
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Da5id »

All Seasons wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:34 am I am leaving the Bogleheads forum -- a departure likely to be permanent. However, before I leave I wanted to share why I am doing so with my fellow Bogleheads. To keep this actionable, I'd like you to consider the following passages as food for thought as to whether or not you should leave this forum.
Best of luck! To mangle Tolkien a bit:
"Alas, eleventy-one 3 years is far too short a time to live among such excellent and admirable hobbits bogleheads." [cheers abound.] "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve"
Last edited by Da5id on Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

Kenkat wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:29 am
Chuck wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:03 am I have a variable annuity, and a whole life policy. My Roth IRA is also full of B-rated intermediate term corporate bonds. I guess I'll show myself the door.
GET OUT :wink:

p.s. Since we are confessing sins, I have held a few active funds, including some non-Vanguard ones, since the late 90s... 8-)
Since we are confessing: I hold a portfolio of individual equities that include aghast “dividend paying (aka taxable income) stock that exceeds 5 percent “play money”. I don’t “play” with my money.😉 I also hold actively managed funds (tax deferred and Roth IRA) too!
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
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dratkinson
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by dratkinson »

I come here to help others. It's my responsibility to do that in repayment for the help I've received. If I left, and you left, who will do that?

Discussions about investing minutia don't affect me, because I don't have the skills to understand or implement. And if I did, then I'm too lazy.

Best wishes.
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor; you are forewarned.
MiddleOfTheRoad
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by MiddleOfTheRoad »

I have been a member for a few years and learned a lot. I probably know most of the the answers :twisted:

But I am still here because I don’t know what I don’t know.

Good luck!
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

dratkinson wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:03 pm I come here to help others. It's my responsibility to do that in repayment for the help I've received. If I left, and you left, who will do that?

Discussions about investing minutia don't affect me, because I don't have the skills to understand or implement. And if I did, then I'm too lazy.

Best wishes.
Sloth is one of my major strengths! :sharebeer

Broken Man 1999
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by DSBH »

All Seasons wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:34 am I am leaving the Bogleheads forum -- a departure likely to be permanent. However, before I leave I wanted to share why I am doing so with my fellow Bogleheads. To keep this actionable, I'd like you to consider the following passages as food for thought as to whether or not you should leave this forum.
Well ... I will assume that this is a serious post and consider the passages that follow.
I have been enlightened, enthralled, educated, and occasionally miffed at the discussions here. It has been a wild ride, and I have enjoyed my times perusing the many topics. I have had the pleasant experience of familiarizing myself with the thinking of men whose intellect exceeds my own including Larry Swedroe, Taylor Larimore, John Bogle, Rick Ferri, and many others.

Enjoyable as it has been, browsing this forum has done nothing but cause the horizon of my mind to be occluded by the latest in financial research and the stock market. There are constant reminders of the level of the Dow or the latest happenings with cryptocurrencies. There are innumerable threads about factors and international investments. The debates about optimal SCV allocation are interminable.
There are so many fantastic members, men and women spending their time/knowledge and contributing to so many subjects other than "financial research and the stock market". If one starts from the Forums Index page, one can realize that there are a lot more topics than those you listed, e.g. Personal Consumer Issues.
The very act of frequenting this forum defeats the purpose of the Boglehead philosophy: that you shouldn't need to pay any mind to your investments at all. Your money should be beneath you. It should be working for you, silently. It should not be something that is allowed to consume appreciable portions of your mental energy.
Not my understanding of the Boglehead philosophy but we can agree to disagree.
Frequenting this forum can only cause you to act. To tinker. To modify and modify until you reach an "optimal" allocation as per the latest factor paper or whatever it may be. The very act of browsing this forum all the time is antithetical to the very principles that our community espouses.

To be a good Boglehead -- to truly live that philosophy of financial zen that passive investing is supposed to bring -- I must leave the Bogleheads forum, and direct my energies towards other matters.

Thank you for the engaging discussions.
I only "act" when my AA is about 5% away from my 50/50 target, nothing to do with browsing the forum but if that's how you feel then only you yourself can modify your behavior. Best of luck to you.
John C. Bogle: "Never confuse genius with luck and a bull market".
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Exchme »

I have gotten tremendous value out of the forum and contributed a bit of $ to the site do my part to keep it running.

I was always a good saver, but not very sophisticated on the rest of it. Here, I got the confidence to get rid of my FA, wrote an IPS, learned about Roth conversions, IRMAA triggers, correcting old 8606 forms, SS maximization strategies, pointers to other sites and internet tools and cool retirement planning tools like RPM.

Maybe the OP was an expert and didn't need to ask questions and didn't enjoy sharing his knowledge with others, but for the rest of us, this site is unmatched in the ability to get advice from true experts. I appreciate all their contributions to making this the best site around for financial discussion and information.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Hebell »

I think a lot of the diversification in the posts comes from this extraordinary time of low yields. Even Bogleheads are not immune from feeling they must do something.
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dziuniek
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by dziuniek »

DesertDiva wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:11 am
dziuniek wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:54 am
DesertDiva wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:56 am
bog007 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:58 am
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:51 am

Bingo!
Cha ching
All that nonsense belongs on Reddit.
Disagree.
I disagree with your disagreement.
*adds more disagreement*
Get rich or die tryin'
DesertDiva
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by DesertDiva »

dziuniek wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:10 pm
DesertDiva wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:11 am
dziuniek wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:54 am
DesertDiva wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:56 am
bog007 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:58 am

Cha ching
All that nonsense belongs on Reddit.
Disagree.
I disagree with your disagreement.
*adds more disagreement*
At least we agree to disagree :sharebeer
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Stinky
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Stinky »

DesertDiva wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:35 pm
dziuniek wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:10 pm
DesertDiva wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:11 am
I disagree with your disagreement.
*adds more disagreement*
At least we agree to disagree :sharebeer
And that's what Bogleheads is all about - (occasionally) agreeing to disagree.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
qwertyjazz
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by qwertyjazz »

Stinky wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:51 pm
DesertDiva wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:35 pm
dziuniek wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:10 pm
DesertDiva wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:11 am
I disagree with your disagreement.
*adds more disagreement*
At least we agree to disagree :sharebeer
And that's what Bogleheads is all about - (occasionally) agreeing to disagree.
And confusion because sometimes the concepts are above my knowledge level.
I am not sure how to follow the agree - disagree loop to figure out which side means what. Maybe try a 3 fund portfolio?
G.E. Box "All models are wrong, but some are useful."
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Stinky wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:51 pm
DesertDiva wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:35 pm
dziuniek wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:10 pm
DesertDiva wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:11 am
I disagree with your disagreement.
*adds more disagreement*
At least we agree to disagree :sharebeer
And that's what Bogleheads is all about - (occasionally) agreeing to disagree.
And, usually BHs can disagree without being disagreeable! :D

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
mhalley
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by mhalley »

There are always going to be posts that are repetitive questions, anti-boglehead or something that you have no interest in. There will also be posts that are interesting or enlightening. In sum,
Grasshopper, when you can snatch the Bitcoin from my hand, it is time for you to leave.
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framus
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by framus »

MishkaWorries wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:27 am
Ramjet wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:10 am Seems extreme. All or nothing as opposed to just visiting less frequently
I don't get the drama. I've never started a thread about leaving a forum. A forum either works for you or not. Stay, go or intermittent, no one cares.

And I don't get the drama about Flavor of the Month posts. If you don't care about the GameStop or the Great Adventure, just skip the thread.
+1
:sharebeer
Good Bogleheads don't leave, they just fade away.
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beernutz
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by beernutz »

Sorry to see you go OP but OTOH that means more boglehead goodness for me, doesn't it?

I'm feeling more empowered already.
AA: 38/43/19 - equities/positive return-zero volatility/bonds | DW retired 2019, I retired 2022, "it'll be fine"
Goldwater85
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Goldwater85 »

Entirely agree with OP. If one’s goal is to be blissfully unaware and uninformed about the nature and condition of one’s investments, it would be best not to visit finance focused websites.

But if OP can apply the right filter, there are a surprising number of posts on the best engine oil brands and gardening tips.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

Even the good "bare metal" machines that faithfully ran Bogleheads.org for the past number of years left today. 🤣

In their place the site admins have moved the Bogleheads into the "cloud" ⛅ on virtual servers.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by aktx97 »

What I Love About Bogleheads.org:

- "Portfolio review" posts
- "What are you reading/watching/listening to?" posts
- Tax questions
- Real estate posts
- Family/kids and money posts

When there's "noise", I come to Bogleheads to keep me on track. Also lots of great advice not from salespeople.
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LilyFleur
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by LilyFleur »

celia wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:51 am I think you missed the purpose of Bogleheads. Your description is not how I see it.
[OT comment removed by moderator prudent]
...the purpose of the Boglehead philosophy: that you shouldn't need to pay any mind to your investments at all. Your money should be beneath you. It should be working for you, silently. It should not be something that is allowed to consume appreciable portions of your mental energy.
The above is not the Bogleheads philosophy, but possibly a by-product. Bogleheads believe in:
* Live below your means (and save the rest)
* Pay off debt
* Establish an emergency fund
* Save early and regularly
* Keep it Simple
* Costs matter
* Diversify
* Tune out the "noise"

After a while, I started noticing that after you have met your needs for the future and you have "extra" money, you can then consider 5% or 10% of your portfolio as "play money" and invest it in individual stocks or anything else. But this should only be for money you can afford to lose. So sometimes we talk about that.

I see the purpose of this forum as not just re-enforcing these principles (because you can get that from reading a Bogleheads book), but also helping each other by sharing your portfolio or some financial plans, getting the best value when you spend as a consumer, understanding how to fill out and file your tax return and the changing tax laws, how to understand insurance plans, Medicare, SS, RMDs, and planning for long-term care and leaving your assets to your heirs. If you will never guide a "new" adult towards college, need to plan your Health Care DPOA, upgrade your career, re-balance your portfolio, answer someone else's questions, take advantage of tax credits, or buy a new car or appliance, maybe you don't need Bogleheads.

This forum is not for everyone. Only you can tell if it meets your needs. If it doesn't or all your needs are already covered and you will never need to adjust them, we understand that you can make better use of your time elsewhere.

I wish you success and good health.
I agree, Celia. This forum saved me from an unwise asset allocation. I've learned so much about taxes as related to retirement. I've also received a few thank you's via private messaging on advice I've given that was helpful. I even gave some helpful information about IRMAA (that I learned here) to a high-earning friend in financial services when he was getting close to Medicare. He had no idea and thanked me profusely.
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birdog
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by birdog »

A couple years ago I had a tax question so I asked my CPA. He said he’d check and get back to me. So then I asked two different financial independence bloggers via the question functions on their websites. A few days pass and I hadn’t heard back from anyone. So I asked the question on Bogleheads and in about ten minutes had three well constructed and insightful answers from some very smart people here. A couple days later my CPA got back to me and about six months later the first finance blogger got back to me. The second blogger, who specializes in taxes, still hasn’t responded. Bogleheads can be a great tool. But like anything else in life, nothing is perfect. There will be people discussing and promoting things that you should ignore, just like in life outside of Bogleheads. To hold Bogleheads to some perfect standard even when it’s populated by imperfect people, as everyone is, probably isn’t completely fair. But individual results may vary and to each his/her own. Just my two cents. Best of luck to you. :beer
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Stinky
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Stinky »

All Seasons, the original poster, hasn't logged into the Forum since his post that started this thread early on Tuesday morning, 2/9/21. So he/she hasn't had the benefit of seeing all of the insightful comments (over 120 so far) about why those who responded value the Bogleheads community.

Good bye, All Seasons. Best of luck to you.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by abuss368 »

Best wishes and good luck. I have found over the years the forum provides a lot of support when investors need it most.

Tony
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by abuss368 »

The forum has lost a lot of good Bogleheads over the years whose thoughts and posts I miss.

Tony
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by abuss368 »

birdog wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:38 am A couple years ago I had a tax question so I asked my CPA. He said he’d check and get back to me. So then I asked two different financial independence bloggers via the question functions on their websites. A few days pass and I hadn’t heard back from anyone. So I asked the question on Bogleheads and in about ten minutes had three well constructed and insightful answers from some very smart people here. A couple days later my CPA got back to me and about six months later the first finance blogger got back to me. The second blogger, who specializes in taxes, still hasn’t responded. Bogleheads can be a great tool. But like anything else in life, nothing is perfect. There will be people discussing and promoting things that you should ignore, just like in life outside of Bogleheads. To hold Bogleheads to some perfect standard even when it’s populated by imperfect people, as everyone is, probably isn’t completely fair. But individual results may vary and to each his/her own. Just my two cents. Best of luck to you. :beer
That is incredible. I have found this to be the case for us as well many, many times over.

Tony
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by TomatoTomahto »

A short while ago, I was preparing to spend $2 - $4M on land and building our “retirement” home. BH gently and constructively talked me out of it.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=338561&hilit=Retirement+house

Thank you.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by bondsr4me »

SR II wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:51 am I just skip over the threads that don't interest me and read through the one's that do. That way I don't have to "leave" to leave.
+1
that says it all for me.
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beyou
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by beyou »

Stinky wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:26 am I don’t want to only interact with people who have the same ideas as I do. I want to be exposed to different ideas, to different ways of looking at things. Maybe I’ll accept the alternate way of looking at things, and maybe I won’t.

I figure that if I stop learning and growing, I start into decline. I want to keep learning.

I also gathered some specialized learning from my working career that allows me to give my thoughts on certain financial products based on solid knowledge. I enjoy sharing my opinions with others from a position of knowledge.
This is a certainly a great part of the site. But there have been many who have left due to the difficulty of moderation that can't possibly satisfy all. Some comments have been deleted that didn't seem so terrible. Others have been left to stand when people get very personal in their chosen debates (style and substance of debates). I personally have been offended periodically by some posters, and sometimes I let my emotions get the best of me and respond, other times I just stop reading/following a thread that has gone off the rails but NOT locked. There are a couple of threads I flipped people off and didn't return to see what they have to say...don't care at that point if my or their comments were deleted, too late by that point. Each such encounter led me to consider leaving the form much as some much more prolific past posters have done. Being a less prolific poster, I don't get as many such encounters, but people like Swedroe get a lot of that and leave. I don't see anything wrong with discussing most of the topics discussed here (and some banned topics) so long as they are civil.

I have been an active user for over a decade now, and I frequently consider "leaving" both when I have such negative encounters, and when
I think "I have read this debate a thousand times". As far as the temptation to read about reddit/GME, one can skip those threads completely, those threads do not dissuade me at all. It is what I do read that sometimes bothers me, not the ones easily skipped. And there are always a few gems that keep me coming back. Look for the gems, ignore the threads you don't have interest (day trading) and bail out of threads that are just argumentative with nothing concrete that can be learned/decided (like the ever present "is private college college worth it").
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Raymond
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Raymond »

Stinky wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:32 am All Seasons, the original poster, hasn't logged into the Forum since his post that started this thread early on Tuesday morning, 2/9/21...
"Elvis has left the building".

I enjoyed the excellent comments here, especially the confessions of the Apple and Tesla heretics :D

Has the thread run its course?
"Ritter, Tod und Teufel"
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Lehninger
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Lehninger »

Thank you to the Bogleheads who choose to stay, tune out the noise, and continue to guide and encourage us Boglets.

Please remember, there is a silent majority who peruse these forums seeking the wisdom and knowledge from those who have spent a lifetime learning and are willing to dispense in a moment.
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dziuniek
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by dziuniek »

DesertDiva wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:35 pm
dziuniek wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:10 pm
DesertDiva wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:11 am
dziuniek wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:54 am
DesertDiva wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:56 am

All that nonsense belongs on Reddit.
Disagree.
I disagree with your disagreement.
*adds more disagreement*
At least we agree to disagree :sharebeer
<mumbles and walks away> :sharebeer
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Bogle7 »

If you leave, how will know what dishwasher to buy when your current one breaks?
Old fart who does three index stock funds, baby.
Chuck
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Chuck »

Lehninger wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:29 am Please remember, there is a silent majority who peruse these forums seeking the wisdom and knowledge from those who have spent a lifetime learning and are willing to dispense in a moment.
I lurked on this forum for 5+ years while I was trying to figure out if my financial advisor was ripping me off. (I'll skip the spoiler alert....) The forum was immensely helpful to me before I ever created an account and made a first post.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by ScoobyDoo »

Lehninger wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:29 am Thank you to the Bogleheads who choose to stay, tune out the noise, and continue to guide and encourage us Boglets.

Please remember, there is a silent majority who peruse these forums seeking the wisdom and knowledge from those who have spent a lifetime learning and are willing to dispense in a moment.
+10000000
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by White Coat Investor »

All Seasons wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:34 am I am leaving the Bogleheads forum -- a departure likely to be permanent. However, before I leave I wanted to share why I am doing so with my fellow Bogleheads. To keep this actionable, I'd like you to consider the following passages as food for thought as to whether or not you should leave this forum.

I have been enlightened, enthralled, educated, and occasionally miffed at the discussions here. It has been a wild ride, and I have enjoyed my times perusing the many topics. I have had the pleasant experience of familiarizing myself with the thinking of men whose intellect exceeds my own including Larry Swedroe, Taylor Larimore, John Bogle, Rick Ferri, and many others.

Enjoyable as it has been, browsing this forum has done nothing but cause the horizon of my mind to be occluded by the latest in financial research and the stock market. There are constant reminders of the level of the Dow or the latest happenings with cryptocurrencies. There are innumerable threads about factors and international investments. The debates about optimal SCV allocation are interminable. The very act of frequenting this forum defeats the purpose of the Boglehead philosophy: that you shouldn't need to pay any mind to your investments at all. Your money should be beneath you. It should be working for you, silently. It should not be something that is allowed to consume appreciable portions of your mental energy.

Frequenting this forum can only cause you to act. To tinker. To modify and modify until you reach an "optimal" allocation as per the latest factor paper or whatever it may be. The very act of browsing this forum all the time is antithetical to the very principles that our community espouses.

To be a good Boglehead -- to truly live that philosophy of financial zen that passive investing is supposed to bring -- I must leave the Bogleheads forum, and direct my energies towards other matters.

Thank you for the engaging discussions.
Alternatively, you can come here to help others.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by whodidntante »

For those who want to dismiss Reddit as a site for gamblers, idiots, and degenerates, are you sure you gave it a proper trial? I have seen some fantastic posts there, every bit as good as what I see here. It's not once in a blue moon, but basically a daily experience as here. Also a ton of useless crap, as here. But Reddit's ancient platform is a bit more effective at helping you find the good stuff than the Bogleheads ancient platform.

Bogleheads.org does not have a monopoly on great and useful investing advice content. I continuously get the sense that the average age on Reddit is younger than here, but they aren't children and some of the posters there are very informed and intelligent.
finite_difference
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by finite_difference »

celia wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:45 pm
manlymatt83 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:05 am
bog007 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:58 am
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:51 am
JustinR wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:27 am Should there be an "Active Investing, Speculation, and Gambling" forum where all that stuff should go?
Bingo!
Cha ching
I second this.
I don’t understand how this would help as every time I come here, I would see the ‘risky’ threads since I always start the on this page.


And if you are a “good Boglehead”, you would “tune out the ‘noise’”.

As for me, I’m proud to be a life-long learner. If I’m interested in something, I want to know more about it. I’m weird in some ways in that I’ll shop for a car and just be done with it and don’t care what makes it run. But if you leave me an Inherited Roth IRA, I will dissect and re-build it, learn about it’s RMDs (pre-2020), how to wring more growth out of it, figure out how to specify beneficiaries different than what my trust says, and figure out when to remove more than the RMD so it has the least impact on my other Roth conversions.
Maybe the default front page could not include the threads from the risky/active/market timing/speculative investments subforum?

I do think having such a subforum might be a good idea.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
loghound
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by loghound »

I've personally found the noise quite low in this forum and in some sense the noise is good. The constant re-challenging of assumptions is healthy (and I find the odd diversion into things like dogecoin just further reinforces my belief in calmly staying the 'boring' course!)

Best of luck to the OP but I think I'll personally stay invested in this community (even with its imperfections!)
I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time. | - Blaise Pascal
an_asker
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by an_asker »

What OP writes makes sense. If one of the requirements of being a member of this forum was - requirement N: Thou shalt read all threads on Bogleheads - then I would not be staying here one minute longer.

However, I have the choice. Drown out the noise (or participate to a limited extent) and carry on, which is what I've been doing. But the choice is yours!

All the best.
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by sschullo »

winterfan wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:33 am +1 to what Celia said.
+2 to what Celia said.

My 2 cents. My portfolio is boring, cheap, diversified and risk-appropriate for my age. Had this similar portfolio for 15 years. Some suggested that you help others here. I do something a little different.
I take the "good Boglehead" ideas to an advisory board from my former employer that I serve on. Sounds like you might benefit by helping others. My discussions with the financial consultant to the committee who has a slightly active management bias are vastly interesting. The financial world does not think like us. There is a ton of work to do to bring the general public up to speed on financial literacy or just being that "Good Boglehead".
Good luck with whatever you do.
Never in the history of market day-traders’ has the obsession with so much massive, sophisticated, & powerful statistical machinery used by the brightest people on earth with such useless results.
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whodidntante
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by whodidntante »

finite_difference wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:47 pm Maybe the default front page could not include the threads from the risky/active/market timing/speculative investments subforum?

I do think having such a subforum might be a good idea.
The portfolios I see recommended here are typically risky. It kind of gets hard to see when the market is booming, but you will not have any issue understanding that during a downturn. A reasonable Boglehead portfolio successfully eliminates idiosyncratic risk, but that's not the only risk we investors take. But many risks are good risks even if they don't work out. In life, in career, and in investing.
finite_difference
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by finite_difference »

sschullo wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:25 pm
winterfan wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:33 am +1 to what Celia said.
+2 to what Celia said.

My 2 cents. My portfolio is boring, cheap, diversified and risk-appropriate for my age. Had this similar portfolio for 15 years. Some suggested that you help others here. I do something a little different.
I take the "good Boglehead" ideas to an advisory board from my former employer that I serve on. Sounds like you might benefit by helping others. My discussions with the financial consultant to the committee who has a slightly active management bias are vastly interesting. The financial world does not think like us. There is a ton of work to do to bring the general public up to speed on financial literacy or just being that "Good Boglehead".
Good luck with whatever you do.
It’s easy for a seasoned Boglehead to tune out the noise. Not so much for new investors.

I offered the suggestion to form a new subforum here, and linked to our discussion in this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=165036&p=5806211#p5806211

I wouldn’t see the harm in creating a separate subforum for cryptocurrency and triple-leveraged strategies and market-timing GME.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
travelspot
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by travelspot »

This is one of the best sites on the web. It’s an ad-free place for civil discussion with a lot of smart people on a wide range of subjects.

But, to each his own.
If you don't do stuff, then you don't do stuff.
Northern Flicker
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Northern Flicker »

All Seasons wrote: I am leaving the Bogleheads forum -- a departure likely to be permanent. However, before I leave I wanted to share why I am doing so with my fellow Bogleheads. To keep this actionable, I'd like you to consider the following passages as food for thought as to whether or not you should leave this forum.
If you do not wish to use the forum, why does it matter to you what others choose in that regard?
All Seasons wrote: Enjoyable as it has been, browsing this forum has done nothing but cause the horizon of my mind to be occluded by the latest in financial research and the stock market. There are constant reminders of the level of the Dow or the latest happenings with cryptocurrencies. There are innumerable threads about factors and international investments. The debates about optimal SCV allocation are interminable.
Factor theory is much more relevant to portfolio construction than discussions of gold, cryptocurrencies, or investing in individual stocks. Investors who do not choose to tilt still benefit from understanding factor theory.
All Seasons wrote: The very act of frequenting this forum defeats the purpose of the Boglehead philosophy: that you shouldn't need to pay any mind to your investments at all. Your money should be beneath you. It should be working for you, silently. It should not be something that is allowed to consume appreciable portions of your mental energy.
Internet resources can be a time sink. This issue is not specific to bogleheads.
bfeenix44
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by bfeenix44 »

I was reading on this forum pretty much daily for over a year before I changed anything financially. I wanted investing to be simpler, and I wanted to feel confident in my decisions. I found the information I needed, made the changes I wanted to make, and I feel good about it.

That being said, I did go through phases...including the phase where I went down several rabbit holes.

But, hey...I met some very cool rabbits.

Now I visit a bit less often, but it's one on a very short list of places I go where I still look for advice on all kinds of topics. I've also gotten adept at determining how far into a topic I read before I think:

1) Yeah...Nope.
or
2) I want to bookmark this and read some more.

Whenever I do research on the internet I usually go to three or four resources and look for the commonalities between them. This gives me a starting point, and helps me gauge how I feel about what "most" people are saying. I then refine by looking closer at what resonates with me on a deeper level.

I spent a few weeks.
Literally.
Just.
Reading.
Nisiprius.

Invaluable forum. Excellent moderators.
I won't be leaving anytime soon.

Tamara
Portfolio here: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=345748&p=5936072#p5936072
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Tourne
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Re: Why A Good Boglehead Must Leave The Bogleheads Forum

Post by Tourne »

bfeenix44 wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:10 am
I spent a few weeks.
Literally.
Just.
Reading.
Nisiprius.
+100 - Glad to know I’m not the only one :D

Thanks to Nisi, and so many others, for being generous with your time and wisdom. And thanks to the Mods for doing what is a really challenging job (although I am sure that those BH.org stock options you get are ample compensation :D).

My only regret is that I am still early enough in my investing journey that I don’t have very much to contribute to the discussion. But as some others have previously said, please don’t underestimate the invaluable help you are providing to those of us who are lurking, even when you are being shouted at by the, ahem, noisier members of the community. :sharebeer
"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious." - Michael Scott
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