Ban the word 'inflation'

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Oicuryy
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Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by Oicuryy »

Admins,

Please add the word 'inflation' to the phpBB word censor. Use 'price increase' as the replacement string.

This paper explains how the meaning of the word has changed over time. Different posters use different meanings. This often leads to misunderstandings and sometimes leads to disagreements that derail the thread. Blocking the word would encourage posters to say what they mean.
https://www.clevelandfed.org/~/media/co ... %20pdf.pdf


Posters,

Avoid using the word 'inflation'. Your questions will be clearer and your answers better understood if you say what you mean.

Here are some possible alterative terms: price increase; increase in the general level of prices; increase in the price of _____; CPI; increase in my cost of living; decline in the value of dollars; decline in the purchasing power of dollars; increase in the money supply; price increase due to a decline in the value of dollars; price increase due to an increase in the money supply. You get the idea.

Ron
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by LadyGeek »

It's easy to get around word filters. (FYI - The moderators know what to look for. :wink: )

This site is intended to educate. The best approach is to educate members on the exact meaning in the context of the discussion.

To avoid repetition, may I suggest creating an 'Inflation' wiki article?

When someone is misusing the term, you can say "See this wiki article" and help them understand what's wrong. Everyone wins.
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nisiprius
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by nisiprius »

I will try to follow your suggestion myself.

??? But I don't see how it's any different from issues surrounding the words "risk," "diversification," and many others. Nor can you stop people from arguing past each other if that is what they want to do.

For what it's worth, my favorite dictionary says, in·fla·tion

n.
1. The act of inflating or the state of being inflated.
2.
a. A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices or a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money.
b. The rate at which this increase occurs, expressed as a percentage over a period of time, usually a year.
As far as I'm concerned, that means inflation is synonymous with CPI.

I'm not clear on what other meanings are commonly seen in the forum. A few gold advocates feel that it ought to mean "increase in the number of dollars backed by the same quantity of gold," and thus argue that there was no inflation from 1920-1925 even though the CPI doubled.

I'd love to ban the phrase "printing money" <-- not serious.
Last edited by nisiprius on Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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9-5 Suited
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by 9-5 Suited »

There is no need to ban the term when you can just make a post about what you want to convey on the topic. Why would banning a common term be useful? People often say “bonds” to describe a broad range of fixed income instruments. Many other examples.
yog
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by yog »

The Fed does not use CPI or CPI-U as a measurement of inflation trends.

The Fed uses the Personal Consumption Expenditures Price Index, Excluding Food & Energy.
https://www.bea.gov/data/personal-consu ... and-energy
https://www.bea.gov/resources/learning- ... -inflation
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JoeRetire
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by JoeRetire »

Oicuryy wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:56 pm Please add the word 'inflation' to the phpBB word censor. Use 'price increase' as the replacement string.
Make sense.

In the spirit of making sure folks type a lot of words to explain what they really mean, I'd propose the following substitution as well:

Replace the word "retire" with "no longer work".
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ionball
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by ionball »

What will be the new term for TIPS? Or should those be banned too?
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by DetroitRick »

No. I for one refuse to comply.
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by Godot »

Oicuryy wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:56 pm Admins,

Please add the word 'inflation' to the phpBB word censor. Use 'price increase' as the replacement string.

This paper explains how the meaning of the word has changed over time. Different posters use different meanings. This often leads to misunderstandings and sometimes leads to disagreements that derail the thread. Blocking the word would encourage posters to say what they mean.
https://www.clevelandfed.org/~/media/co ... %20pdf.pdf


Posters,

Avoid using the word 'inflation'. Your questions will be clearer and your answers better understood if you say what you mean.

Here are some possible alterative terms: price increase; increase in the general level of prices; increase in the price of _____; CPI; increase in my cost of living; decline in the value of dollars; decline in the purchasing power of dollars; increase in the money supply; price increase due to a decline in the value of dollars; price increase due to an increase in the money supply. You get the idea.

Ron
Good points. I also suggest we ban the word "international" and write "195 countries on planet earth" instead.
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by Dottie57 »

Godot wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:31 pm
Oicuryy wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:56 pm Admins,

Please add the word 'inflation' to the phpBB word censor. Use 'price increase' as the replacement string.

This paper explains how the meaning of the word has changed over time. Different posters use different meanings. This often leads to misunderstandings and sometimes leads to disagreements that derail the thread. Blocking the word would encourage posters to say what they mean.
https://www.clevelandfed.org/~/media/co ... %20pdf.pdf


Posters,

Avoid using the word 'inflation'. Your questions will be clearer and your answers better understood if you say what you mean.

Here are some possible alterative terms: price increase; increase in the general level of prices; increase in the price of _____; CPI; increase in my cost of living; decline in the value of dollars; decline in the purchasing power of dollars; increase in the money supply; price increase due to a decline in the value of dollars; price increase due to an increase in the money supply. You get the idea.

Ron
Good points. I also suggest we ban the word "international" and write "195 countries on planet earth" instead.
Earth is replaced by “third planet from the sun”.
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by Godot »

Dottie57 wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:37 pm
Godot wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:31 pm
Oicuryy wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:56 pm Admins,

Please add the word 'inflation' to the phpBB word censor. Use 'price increase' as the replacement string.

This paper explains how the meaning of the word has changed over time. Different posters use different meanings. This often leads to misunderstandings and sometimes leads to disagreements that derail the thread. Blocking the word would encourage posters to say what they mean.
https://www.clevelandfed.org/~/media/co ... %20pdf.pdf


Posters,

Avoid using the word 'inflation'. Your questions will be clearer and your answers better understood if you say what you mean.

Here are some possible alterative terms: price increase; increase in the general level of prices; increase in the price of _____; CPI; increase in my cost of living; decline in the value of dollars; decline in the purchasing power of dollars; increase in the money supply; price increase due to a decline in the value of dollars; price increase due to an increase in the money supply. You get the idea.

Ron
Good points. I also suggest we ban the word "international" and write "195 countries on planet earth" instead.
Earth is replaced by “third planet from the sun”.
Depends on what you mean by "sun."
"The day you die is just like any other, only shorter." | ― Samuel Beckett
MarkBarb
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by MarkBarb »

No. Just no.
02nz
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by 02nz »

Oicuryy wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:56 pm This paper explains how the meaning of the word has changed over time. Different posters use different meanings.
I have news for you: the meaning of practically every word in the English language (or any other language) has changed over time. Not everyone has the same understanding of any given word. Try searching the forum for threads on marginal vs effective tax rate as it relates to the Roth vs traditional question.

Actually, the word "inflation" is a much less problematic term than many others related to economics and finance. Inflation has a very widely accepted measure - the Consumer Price Index, but of course nobody uses the exact same basket of goods as the CPI, so everyone's "personal inflation" is different.
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by Ben Mathew »

JoeRetire wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:05 pm
Oicuryy wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:56 pm Please add the word 'inflation' to the phpBB word censor. Use 'price increase' as the replacement string.
Make sense.

In the spirit of making sure folks type a lot of words to explain what they really mean, I'd propose the following substitution as well:

Replace the word "retire" with "no longer work".
Good idea, JoeNo longer work.
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lws
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by lws »

There is nothing wrong with the word. Please leave it alone.
000
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by 000 »

That is a very strange and literally Orwellian idea.

Almost every word can become subject to semantic debate. Banning one word will just move the semantic debate onto other words or phrases. For example, what does "decline in the value of dollars" mean? The value in terms of _________? Some will say CPI, some will say their own spending, some will say relative to past dollar supply, some will say foreign currencies, some will say gold, some will say security prices. And we're back to the same debate.
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by Dottie57 »

Godot wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:42 pm
Dottie57 wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:37 pm
Godot wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:31 pm
Oicuryy wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:56 pm Admins,

Please add the word 'inflation' to the phpBB word censor. Use 'price increase' as the replacement string.

This paper explains how the meaning of the word has changed over time. Different posters use different meanings. This often leads to misunderstandings and sometimes leads to disagreements that derail the thread. Blocking the word would encourage posters to say what they mean.
https://www.clevelandfed.org/~/media/co ... %20pdf.pdf


Posters,

Avoid using the word 'inflation'. Your questions will be clearer and your answers better understood if you say what you mean.

Here are some possible alterative terms: price increase; increase in the general level of prices; increase in the price of _____; CPI; increase in my cost of living; decline in the value of dollars; decline in the purchasing power of dollars; increase in the money supply; price increase due to a decline in the value of dollars; price increase due to an increase in the money supply. You get the idea.

Ron
Good points. I also suggest we ban the word "international" and write "195 countries on planet earth" instead.
Earth is replaced by “third planet from the sun”.
Depends on what you mean by "sun."
Agree.
agottem
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by agottem »

yog wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:01 pm The Fed does not use CPI or CPI-U as a measurement of inflation trends.

The Fed uses the Personal Consumption Expenditures Price Index, Excluding Food & Energy.
https://www.bea.gov/data/personal-consu ... and-energy
https://www.bea.gov/resources/learning- ... -inflation
We don't actually know what the fed uses, as none of their decision making is audited (which is what is meant when people say 'audit the fed').
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

i've suffered from inflation over the past year, but that was mostly what's known as "the covid-15":

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... e+covid-15
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by typical.investor »

Oicuryy wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:56 pm
Here are some possible alterative terms: price increase; increase in the general level of prices; increase in the price of _____; CPI; increase in my cost of living; decline in the value of dollars; decline in the purchasing power of dollars; increase in the money supply; price increase due to a decline in the value of dollars; price increase due to an increase in the money supply. You get the idea.

Ron
Personally, I don't see how a "decline in the value of dollars" necessarily has that much to do with inflation. If currencies around the world appreciate, we'll see a decline in the value of a dollar, but CPI measures could in fact be flat (if deflation overseas happens). Inflation as defined by CPI pricing seems good to me.

Anyway Joseph C. Sternberg argued in the WSJ recently that inflation as defined by mal­func­tion­ing price sig­nals is already here and that CPI measures alone are inadequate. Seems quite radical to me...
Tak­ing a broader view, West­ern democ­ra­cies have not for at least 15 years acted like so­ci­eties where eco­nomic con­di­tions are be­nign, de­spite all the data pro­fes­sional econ­o­mists cite to the con­trary. We are wit­ness­ing vi­cious po­lit­i­cal po­lar­iza­tion, rapidly de­te­ri­o­rat­ing so­cial trust, a break­down in eco­nomic re­la­tions be­tween the gen­er­a­tions—even peas­ants’ re­volts as var­ied as Brexit and Game­Stop.

Go­ing back at least to the 14th cen­tury, such events most of­ten have oc­curred in an en­vi­ron­ment where mal­func­tion­ing price sig­nals (read: in­fla­tion) make it im­pos­si­ble for a so­ci­ety to al­lo­cate its re­sources with any ra­tio­nal­ity or fair­ness.

This is why confining debates over inflation to consumer-price inflation, however poorly measured, is a dodge.
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by megabad »

I think you have inflated this issue here more than it is. Inflating the number of filters to accomplish this seems like overkill. Sometimes using short hand is is convenient and provides less inflation of the size of people’s posts and the meanings can be inferred or assumed with context and then verified. I really think I am right on this but it may be my inflated ego.
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by yog »

agottem wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:59 pm
yog wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:01 pm The Fed does not use CPI or CPI-U as a measurement of inflation trends.

The Fed uses the Personal Consumption Expenditures Price Index, Excluding Food & Energy.
https://www.bea.gov/data/personal-consu ... and-energy
https://www.bea.gov/resources/learning- ... -inflation
We don't actually know what the fed uses, as none of their decision making is audited (which is what is meant when people say 'audit the fed').
I'm happy to have rational discourse on this, but this is not the site to spread disinformation about functions of government and monetary policy.

Listen to the Fed chair's latest speech on 2/10/21 titled 'Getting Back to a Strong Labor Market'. It's 1:19 minutes long, and you should listen to it in its entirety, including the Q&A - it will clear up a lot of the misunderstandings you have about the Fed's role in policy. Starting at the 42 minute mark, there is a detailed question and explanation about inflation. While answering the question, at the 43:07 mark the Fed chair explicitly states PCE is the Fed's chosen metric for measuring their policy goal of sustained 2% inflation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9niGyFKYL98
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by MishkaWorries »

Dottie57 wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:37 pm
Godot wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:31 pm
Oicuryy wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:56 pm Admins,

Please add the word 'inflation' to the phpBB word censor. Use 'price increase' as the replacement string.

This paper explains how the meaning of the word has changed over time. Different posters use different meanings. This often leads to misunderstandings and sometimes leads to disagreements that derail the thread. Blocking the word would encourage posters to say what they mean.
https://www.clevelandfed.org/~/media/co ... %20pdf.pdf


Posters,

Avoid using the word 'inflation'. Your questions will be clearer and your answers better understood if you say what you mean.

Here are some possible alterative terms: price increase; increase in the general level of prices; increase in the price of _____; CPI; increase in my cost of living; decline in the value of dollars; decline in the purchasing power of dollars; increase in the money supply; price increase due to a decline in the value of dollars; price increase due to an increase in the money supply. You get the idea.

Ron
Good points. I also suggest we ban the word "international" and write "195 countries on planet earth" instead.
Earth is replaced by “third planet from the sun”.
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by averagedude »

The fed is targeting 2% inflation, willing to let it run over this amount, and they actually use the word "inflation". I personally am not going to fight the fed. They are actually printing 100 dollar bills, and I am standing at the front of the line in the equity markets, getting my fair share of the proceeds.
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Oicuryy
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by Oicuryy »

000 wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:02 pm For example, what does "decline in the value of dollars" mean? The value in terms of _________? Some will say CPI, some will say their own spending, some will say relative to past dollar supply, some will say foreign currencies, some will say gold, some will say security prices. And we're back to the same debate.
You're probably right. Never mind that the price of everything is relative to the value of dollars. People will insist that the price of only one this is the right measure of the value of dollars. Then they will argue over what that thing is. I give up.

Ron
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by JoMoney »

I was disappointed that the Macy's Thanksgiving Parade giant balloon 'price increase' celebration was canceled in 2020
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by oldcomputerguy »

This thread has run its course and is locked (unfocused, topic exhausted). See: Locked Topics
Moderators or site admins may lock a topic (set it so no more replies may be added) when a violation of posting policy has occurred. Occasionally, even if there are no overt violations of posting policy, a topic (or thread) will reach a point where the information content of the discussion has been essentially exhausted and further replies are much more likely to cause distress to the community than add anything of value.
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Re: Ban the word 'inflation'

Post by LadyGeek »

nisiprius has created a draft wiki article. See: Draft Wiki article on "Inflation"

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