How to find good lawyer to make living trust? [US ex-pat]

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medusa98
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How to find good lawyer to make living trust? [US ex-pat]

Post by medusa98 »

Hello, I have a few million in assets and my situation is complicated with children from different mothers, so I think better to get a pro rather than do it myself.

My first problem is that I'm an American but have lived outside the US for more than 20 years so I have no state. I understand that the trust must be formed under the law of a specific state. Can I choose any state? Are some more favorable than others for this type of set up?

Once I figure out the state, I have no idea how to find a lawyer and how to evaluate whether he is good. Last time I had to deal with the legal paperwork, I got burned with a lazy lawyer that I found online!

I understand bogleheads are some of the most savvy people on earth. Any help appreciated!
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Re: How to find good lawyer to make living trust? [US ex-pat]

Post by LadyGeek »

Welcome! I moved your thread to the Non-US Investing forum which has members experienced with with US ex-pats. I retitled the thread.

To clarify, you mean you have no US state of residence.

Where are your assets located (including your investments)? The US or somewhere else? Taxes will be a big concern and it depends on the country.
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harrychan
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Re: How to find good lawyer to make living trust? [US ex-pat]

Post by harrychan »

Not sure where you are currently located but if in SE Asia, contact Benjamin Alley at https://www.alleylawgroup.com/. They helped us with estate planning and set up a living trust and we have complicated assets in HK and US.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
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medusa98
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Re: How to find good lawyer to make living trust? [US ex-pat]

Post by medusa98 »

LadyGeek wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:56 am Welcome! I moved your thread to the Non-US Investing forum which has members experienced with with US ex-pats. I retitled the thread.

To clarify, you mean you have no US state of residence.

Where are your assets located (including your investments)? The US or somewhere else? Taxes will be a big concern and it depends on the country.
Thanks.
I haven't lived in the US for about 20 years. I have filed US tax returns every year and when choosing the state, choose "foreign" so yes I guess I have no US state residence.

Some of my assets (brokerage accounts, bank accounts, life insurance, social security, business) are in the US while others (real estate, metals, bank accounts, business) are out of the US so that makes it more complicated. Ideally I would like to liquidate everything and consolidate it into one trust under US law (for example a basic Vanguard account).

Another wrinkle, is that some of my kids are US citizens and others are not.
Last edited by medusa98 on Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:41 am, edited 4 times in total.
Topic Author
medusa98
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Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:15 am

Re: How to find good lawyer to make living trust? [US ex-pat]

Post by medusa98 »

harrychan wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:11 am Not sure where you are currently located but if in SE Asia, contact Benjamin Alley at https://www.alleylawgroup.com/. They helped us with estate planning and set up a living trust and we have complicated assets in HK and US.
I'm actually in South America but perhaps my location doesn't matter. I will check on this rec. Thank you.
harrychan
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Re: How to find good lawyer to make living trust? [US ex-pat]

Post by harrychan »

Yes, he'll be able to help.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
Valuethinker
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Re: How to find good lawyer to make living trust? [US ex-pat]

Post by Valuethinker »

medusa98 wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:38 am
LadyGeek wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:56 am Welcome! I moved your thread to the Non-US Investing forum which has members experienced with with US ex-pats. I retitled the thread.

To clarify, you mean you have no US state of residence.

Where are your assets located (including your investments)? The US or somewhere else? Taxes will be a big concern and it depends on the country.
Thanks.
I haven't lived in the US for about 20 years. I have filed US tax returns every year and when choosing the state, choose "foreign" so yes I guess I have no US state residence.

Some of my assets (brokerage accounts, bank accounts, life insurance, social security, business) are in the US while others (real estate, metals, bank accounts, business) are out of the US so that makes it more complicated. Ideally I would like to liquidate everything and consolidate it into one trust under US law (for example a basic Vanguard account).

Another wrinkle, is that some of my kids are US citizens and others are not.
You probably have your finger on this but Common Law countries have one rule of inheritance (that it's set by will).

Civil Law countries like France have a different rule (there's a fixed formula depending on child order, parental order (if remarried) etc).

So that's something else to consider.
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Re: How to find good lawyer to make living trust? [US ex-pat]

Post by bsteiner »

I think you should first find a lawyer at a firm with a good trusts and estates practice and then let the lawyer advise on whether a revocable trust would be appropriate (you would need to consult with local counsel in the country where you live on that as well, since revocable trust have adverse tax consequences in some countries), and if so, what state's law to use for it.

Your Will could probably be probated in any state where you have an account.

You would probably want the trusts for your U.S. citizen children to be domestic (U.S.) rather than foreign for income tax purposes. The lawyer will know how to accomplish that.

You, your lawyer, or your non-U.S. citizen children who don't live in the U.S. might want to coordinate with local counsel in their home countries as to how you might best provide for them.
Topic Author
medusa98
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Re: How to find good lawyer to make living trust? [US ex-pat]

Post by medusa98 »

bsteiner wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:41 am I think you should first find a lawyer at a firm with a good trusts and estates practice and then let the lawyer advise on whether a revocable trust would be appropriate (you would need to consult with local counsel in the country where you live on that as well, since revocable trust have adverse tax consequences in some countries), and if so, what state's law to use for it.

Your Will could probably be probated in any state where you have an account.

You would probably want the trusts for your U.S. citizen children to be domestic (U.S.) rather than foreign for income tax purposes. The lawyer will know how to accomplish that.

You, your lawyer, or your non-U.S. citizen children who don't live in the U.S. might want to coordinate with local counsel in their home countries as to how you might best provide for them.
Thank you. Do you know which US states are most favorable? Probably easiest for me to go with Texas because my business is registered there and I have bank accounts there but not sure if that matters. Maybe I can choose any state.

How to determine if a firm is good in trusts and estates?
Topic Author
medusa98
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:15 am

Re: How to find good lawyer to make living trust? [US ex-pat]

Post by medusa98 »

Valuethinker wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:26 am
medusa98 wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:38 am
LadyGeek wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:56 am Welcome! I moved your thread to the Non-US Investing forum which has members experienced with with US ex-pats. I retitled the thread.

To clarify, you mean you have no US state of residence.

Where are your assets located (including your investments)? The US or somewhere else? Taxes will be a big concern and it depends on the country.
Thanks.
I haven't lived in the US for about 20 years. I have filed US tax returns every year and when choosing the state, choose "foreign" so yes I guess I have no US state residence.

Some of my assets (brokerage accounts, bank accounts, life insurance, social security, business) are in the US while others (real estate, metals, bank accounts, business) are out of the US so that makes it more complicated. Ideally I would like to liquidate everything and consolidate it into one trust under US law (for example a basic Vanguard account).

Another wrinkle, is that some of my kids are US citizens and others are not.
You probably have your finger on this but Common Law countries have one rule of inheritance (that it's set by will).

Civil Law countries like France have a different rule (there's a fixed formula depending on child order, parental order (if remarried) etc).

So that's something else to consider.
No, I don't know anything about this.
Do you mean that in countries run governed by Civil Law, a person cannot choose who will inherit their assets? Seems crazy.

Anyway, this is my tentative plan since none of my kids live in USA.

1) Get value of all assets, divide by number of children to determine share size. E.g. I have 6mm in assets in USA and 4mm in assets out of USA. Total is 10mm and there are 5 children so each gets 2mm.

2) Will or give by trust the assets in a particular country to my kids living there according to the laws of that country.

3) Put all US assets into one trust.

4) Divide into shares adjusting for amount child received in their own country. Child A received 400k in assets in their own country so they have 1.6mm left in the 6mm USA trust (26.7% of the whole trust).

5) Instruction to trustee, my relative who will be compensated, to invest conservatively (e.g. ETF).

6) Pay out each child their percentage of the trust upon reaching 25 years of age. E.g. by the time Child A is 25, the 6mm has increased to 9mm. Child A is paid out 26.7% or about 2.4mm. The fund has about 6.6mm remaining and continues to be managed in the same way. When Child B reaches 25 years of age, payment is made according to his share. Continue until all funds are paid out.

What do you think?
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