Confusion over costs - ishares MSCI ACWI ETF (UK)

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Topic Author
steveyg50
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:35 pm

Confusion over costs - ishares MSCI ACWI ETF (UK)

Post by steveyg50 »

(UK based)

I'm quite confused over actual fund costs and would like some explanation please. I'm probably being a bit dumb?

In various places and in their own literature the TER/ongoing charges for iShares MSCI ACWI UCITS ETF USD (Acc) (GBP) SSAC -
is listed as 0.20%.

Ive just looked on AJBell youinvest site it lists TER for this fund as 0.20%.

So I was thinking this may be a good alternative to Vanguard FTSE all-world tracker and HSBC FTSE all-world tracker. I was considering eventually I may split all my monies between 3 all-world tracker funds.

However I look at 'costs and charges' on Youinvest and the actual fee for the ishares fund jumps to 0.57% ?

https://www.youinvest.co.uk/market-research/LSE%3ASSAC

it was somewhat easy to miss on Youinvest site if you just look at frontpage/overview where it lists ongoing charges as 0.20%, at least on Fidelity for instance it lists ongoing charges as 0.57% obviously (but it says TER is 0.2% in the product literature).

https://www.fidelity.co.uk/factsheet-da ... statistics


in comparison, on both Youinvest and Fidelity (and presume elsewhere) my Vanguard all -world tracker has listed actual costs exactly as I thought it was - ie 0.22% plus 0.03% transaction fee, the HSBC funds actual costs are also as advertised and expected, 0.14% plus 0.04% transaction fee.

Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF USD Accumulation (GBP) VWRP
https://www.youinvest.co.uk/market-research/LSE%3AVWRP

so what is the deal with the ishares fund? how has it jumped from 0.20% to 0.57% ?

I'm also confused as to why for the ishares fund the transaction cost is listed as a negative - 0.07%.

also on Youinvest there is a 3% switching fee listed, I'm confused about this also !
there is no switching fee for the Vanguard or HSBC funds.
Last edited by steveyg50 on Wed May 26, 2021 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
galeno
Posts: 2653
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:06 am

Re: Confusion over costs - ishares MSCI ACWI ETF

Post by galeno »

Maybe the TR (tax ratio) was added to the ER? I do it all the time to know the TER (total expense ratio) of our equity UCITS ETF.

E.g. VWRD ER = 0.22%.
L1 + L2 DWT = 12.38%.
12 mo yield = 1.29%.

TR = 1.29 x 0.1238 = 0.16%

TER = 0.22 + 0.16 = 0.38%.
KISS & STC.
User avatar
BeBH65
Posts: 1763
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:28 am

Re: Confusion over costs - ishares MSCI ACWI ETF (UK)

Post by BeBH65 »

You need to investigate how this site calculates the numbers that is shows.

Possible causes of confusion"
- the iShares ACWI ETF lowered its ER less then a year ago from 0,6% ( I think) to 0.2% now: so if you look at the actual costs in the past these will still include those higher costs.
- iShares funds also have income from lending the shares - in which number is this included.
BeBH65. (only an investment enthusiast, not a financial adviser, perform your due diligence). | Have a look at https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Outline_of_Non-US_domiciles
Valuethinker
Posts: 49027
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Confusion over costs - ishares MSCI ACWI ETF (UK)

Post by Valuethinker »

steveyg50 wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 4:51 pm (UK based)

I'm quite confused over actual fund costs and would like some explanation please. I'm probably being a bit dumb?

In various places and in their own literature the TER/ongoing charges for iShares MSCI ACWI UCITS ETF USD (Acc) (GBP) SSAC -
is listed as 0.20%.

Ive just looked on AJBell youinvest site it lists TER for this fund as 0.20%.

So I was thinking this may be a good alternative to Vanguard FTSE all-world tracker and HSBC FTSE all-world tracker. I was considering eventually I may split all my monies between 3 all-world tracker funds.

However I look at 'costs and charges' on Youinvest and the actual fee for the ishares fund jumps to 0.57% ?

https://www.youinvest.co.uk/market-research/LSE%3ASSAC

it was somewhat easy to miss on Youinvest site if you just look at frontpage/overview where it lists ongoing charges as 0.20%, at least on Fidelity for instance it lists ongoing charges as 0.57% obviously (but it says TER is 0.2% in the product literature).

https://www.fidelity.co.uk/factsheet-da ... statistics


in comparison, on both Youinvest and Fidelity (and presume elsewhere) my Vanguard all -world tracker has listed actual costs exactly as I thought it was - ie 0.22% plus 0.03% transaction fee, the HSBC funds actual costs are also as advertised and expected, 0.14% plus 0.04% transaction fee.

Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF USD Accumulation (GBP) VWRP
https://www.youinvest.co.uk/market-research/LSE%3AVWRP

so what is the deal with the ishares fund? how has it jumped from 0.20% to 0.57% ?

I'm also confused as to why for the ishares fund the transaction cost is listed as a negative - 0.07%.

also on Youinvest there is a 3% switching fee listed, I'm confused about this also !
there is no switching fee for the Vanguard or HSBC funds.
The UK system is, I think, deliberately confusing to the consumer. The Total Expense Ratio number tries to sort that out.

Is it not that your platform is charging an extra fee for holding an ETF? Mine charges an additional 0.1 per cent.

Fees vary by platforms.
Topic Author
steveyg50
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:35 pm

Re: Confusion over costs - ishares MSCI ACWI ETF (UK)

Post by steveyg50 »

Doesn't seem to be ETF costs, since costs for
Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF USD Accumulation (GBP) VWRP is exactly as expected on both Youinvest and Fidelity,simply the quoted TER plus transaction cost(total 0.26%)

Surely not an outdated TER figure that is cheaper now because on Fidelity 'pre sale' function the actual ongoing costs for the ishares fund is listed as 0.5%. clearly they deducted the negative - 0.07% transaction costs from the 0.57%.

Looks to me this fund will cost me 0.5% on both platforms. I checked and this is also the case on ii

Has any one else got this fund?
Valuethinker
Posts: 49027
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Confusion over costs - ishares MSCI ACWI ETF (UK)

Post by Valuethinker »

steveyg50 wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 12:56 pm Doesn't seem to be ETF costs, since costs for
Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF USD Accumulation (GBP) VWRP is exactly as expected on both Youinvest and Fidelity,simply the quoted TER plus transaction cost(total 0.26%)

Surely not an outdated TER figure that is cheaper now because on Fidelity 'pre sale' function the actual ongoing costs for the ishares fund is listed as 0.5%. clearly they deducted the negative - 0.07% transaction costs from the 0.57%.

Looks to me this fund will cost me 0.5% on both platforms. I checked and this is also the case on ii

Has any one else got this fund?
I do, but in a Vanguard ISA, so I pay 15bps (0.15%) on top as a platform fee.

The reason I use it is because it means I never rebalance between countries. I let the market figure that out for me.
TedSwippet
Posts: 5181
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:19 pm
Location: UK

Re: Confusion over costs - ishares MSCI ACWI ETF (UK)

Post by TedSwippet »

BeBH65 wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 2:19 am - the iShares ACWI ETF lowered its ER less then a year ago from 0,6% ( I think) to 0.2% now: so if you look at the actual costs in the past these will still include those higher costs.
My money is on this explanation. If the 'actual costs' listed are backwards-looking, they would cover a period when the ETF's TER was 0.6%.
steveyg50 wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 4:51 pm However I look at 'costs and charges' on Youinvest and the actual fee for the ishares fund jumps to 0.57% ?
I'd suggest asking Youinvest directly why their site shows this number. The rest of us can only speculate.
Topic Author
steveyg50
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:35 pm

Re: Confusion over costs - ishares MSCI ACWI ETF (UK)

Post by steveyg50 »

Yes I asked on Friday. Fidelity actually, since they reply very quickly. Awaiting reply.

Seems more than likely an old cost is listed, but the higher figure is listed on Fidelity, Youinvest and interactive investors. That's why I starting thinking it was' real'.
Looked yesterday at Hargreaves Landsdown though and they are listing the 0.20% cost in cost docs, so presume this is the real cost.

See what Fidelity say to confirm it, but seems at the moment that many big platforms listing incorrect costs for this fund. Doesn't leave me much confidence in the people handling my life savings really.

On this occasion listed higher costs than real, so actually 'good news'. But even so its poor. I would have dismissed a perfectly good fund on costs that were not real.
Topic Author
steveyg50
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:35 pm

Re: Confusion over costs - ishares MSCI ACWI ETF (UK)

Post by steveyg50 »

Fidelity confirmed, real cost is 0.2%.

"have clarified this with one of our fund teams and they have confirmed the correct figure is 0.2%. This has recently changed which is why the older figure is still displayed on our fund fact sheet. I have submitted to have this updated to save any future confusion, we thank you for raising this."

Intestingly in The Times on Saturday it says a recent study showed 15% of ETFs are listing negative transaction fees.

It says L&g artificial intelligence ETF is or was listing - 1.55% transaction fee on an OCF of 0.49%, giving an overall negative annual fee of - 0.54% on Hargreaves (with 0.45% platform fee)...! So they will pay me to invest!? Great, except no they won't.

According to Hargreaves problems are due to incorrect data from the fund managers, which is why all platforms can be displaying the same incorrect costs. I didn't realise this, that's why I started believing it was real since I checked 3 platforms.

Utter bananas. Perhaps safe to assume one will end up paying the correct fee in the end, but not really inspiring me with confidence, will be checking costs more carefully in future
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