Golden Visa Programs

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curiouskitty
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Re: Golden Visa Programs

Post by curiouskitty »

Bogle1984 wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:40 am As a European, why would you actually be interested living in Europe? Is it the lower cost of living?

I had the opportunity to visit Houston for some time precovid. Had a great time there and really liked the weather. It was somehow like southern Europe climate wise. I think there must be some nice places in the south of the US near the seaside for retirement.
Because I found tons of amazing food and culture in Europe including the wonderful access via train and cheap flights. Houston is a sprawling mess with supersized low quality food and little culture comparatively in my view

I’m not discouraging you if you like it there of course but that’s my view. Most the people I’ve known who moved to Texas did it for tax reasons instead of because they liked Texas
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Bogle1984
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Re: Golden Visa Programs

Post by Bogle1984 »

curiouskitty wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:58 pm
Bogle1984 wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:40 am As a European, why would you actually be interested living in Europe? Is it the lower cost of living?

I had the opportunity to visit Houston for some time precovid. Had a great time there and really liked the weather. It was somehow like southern Europe climate wise. I think there must be some nice places in the south of the US near the seaside for retirement.
Because I found tons of amazing food and culture in Europe including the wonderful access via train and cheap flights. Houston is a sprawling mess with supersized low quality food and little culture comparatively in my view

I’m not discouraging you if you like it there of course but that’s my view. Most the people I’ve known who moved to Texas did it for tax reasons instead of because they liked Texas
Of course there is more "culture" in Europe but in my view US has his own "culture" and it's a relatively young and dynamic country. What I didn't realize before coming to the US was that it's a huge country, even to visit the next bigger city usually is only possible by plane.
Last edited by Bogle1984 on Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hyperborea
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Location: Japan

Re: Golden Visa Programs

Post by Hyperborea »

potz wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:38 pm Hope this helps.
Thanks for all the information. I'm still undecided about the Golden Visa versus the D7 retirement visa versus perhaps other European countries. I'm in a bit of a different situation than some since I'm not really planning to retire in Europe but instead want to spend a few years (3-6) and explore and travel within Europe. I had hoped to do that as an EU citizen at one point since I have UK citizenship but Brexit put paid to that.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, it's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. - Bill Murray
Slacker
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Re: Golden Visa Programs

Post by Slacker »

potz wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:38 pm
Hyperborea wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:53 am Everything I had seen was that passive income (dividends and interest) earned outside Portugal was still tax exempt within Portugal. The only change was that pension income has gone from 0% tax to 10% tax for new non-habitual residents as of last year.
Thats true, dividends and interest are tax exempt if outside Portugal. Most of my existing dividend income from private investments, as well as real estate income outside of Portugal will be exempt.

But dig a little deeper and you will find capital gains on the sale of financial instruments (stocks, etf's included) do NOT qualify for the NHR tax break and are taxed at standard 28%. I have consulted 2 different tax attorneys in Portugal who have expertise in the NHR program and they have highlighted this to me.

The situation changes if the stocks/etf's/funds are in a retirement structure of some sort, like a 401(k) or IRA for Americans for example, it is then viewed as a retirement structure from a Portugal perspective and not taxed. My ETF holdings are not in any sort of structure or retirement designated account and are in a self managed portfolio with Interactive Brokers.

Hope this helps.
When capital gains is assessed at 28%, I had read that they automatically assume (unless you provide documentation to the contrary) that you had a 15% capital gain and that it is this 15% that is taxed at 28%. Is this correct (as far as you know)?

What do you know of Roth IRA treatment in Portugal? I am having difficulty finding a straight answer to this one. Personally, we are considering Portugal first, but if the treatment of Roth IRAs is not favorable (paying no taxes) then we will likely look more into France which does appear to have favorable treatment of Roth IRAs from what I could gather via internet searching.
potz
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Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:11 am

Re: Golden Visa Programs

Post by potz »

Slacker wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:24 pm When capital gains is assessed at 28%, I had read that they automatically assume (unless you provide documentation to the contrary) that you had a 15% capital gain and that it is this 15% that is taxed at 28%. Is this correct (as far as you know)?
In my reading so far I have not come across this.
Slacker wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:24 pm What do you know of Roth IRA treatment in Portugal? I am having difficulty finding a straight answer to this one. Personally, we are considering Portugal first, but if the treatment of Roth IRAs is not favorable (paying no taxes) then we will likely look more into France which does appear to have favorable treatment of Roth IRAs from what I could gather via internet searching.
I am not American, so do not know the specific's around Roth IRA's, but the research I have done so far has stated that this would be deemed a "pension" or "retirement" account in Portugal and NHR eligible

There was a recent free webinar from https://www.expacity.com/ that was all about NHR for people moving to Portugal. The expert guest is a Portugal tax attorney who seemed very knowledgeable. There was a lot of information specific to Americans, so you may find it useful.

Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GGXpnx ... w9585/view

- 26 minute mark he starts to specifically cover Passive Income.
- Around 33 minute mark he specifically mentions Roth IRA's as being deemed a "pension" in the eyes of Portugal and thus NHR eligible.
WhiteMaxima
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Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:04 pm

Re: Golden Visa Programs

Post by WhiteMaxima »

Tax in EU is higher than US. Portugal gives 10 year NHR which will have flat 10% tax for 10 years. You will have to stay in Portugal 183 days per year. US will tax you no matter you live.
CCD
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Re: Golden Visa Programs

Post by CCD »

WhiteMaxima wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:37 am Tax in EU is higher than US. Portugal gives 10 year NHR which will have flat 10% tax for 10 years. You will have to stay in Portugal 183 days per year. US will tax you no matter you live.
It sounds better than it is in practice depending on your situation. If you are retired and can already access pension, tIRA, 401k yes 10%. If you retire early and sell appreciated investments 28% tax, unless all you income comes from dividends and interest, then you go back to 10%.
Slacker
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Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Golden Visa Programs

Post by Slacker »

potz wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:23 pm
Slacker wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:24 pm When capital gains is assessed at 28%, I had read that they automatically assume (unless you provide documentation to the contrary) that you had a 15% capital gain and that it is this 15% that is taxed at 28%. Is this correct (as far as you know)?
In my reading so far I have not come across this.
Slacker wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:24 pm What do you know of Roth IRA treatment in Portugal? I am having difficulty finding a straight answer to this one. Personally, we are considering Portugal first, but if the treatment of Roth IRAs is not favorable (paying no taxes) then we will likely look more into France which does appear to have favorable treatment of Roth IRAs from what I could gather via internet searching.
I am not American, so do not know the specific's around Roth IRA's, but the research I have done so far has stated that this would be deemed a "pension" or "retirement" account in Portugal and NHR eligible

There was a recent free webinar from https://www.expacity.com/ that was all about NHR for people moving to Portugal. The expert guest is a Portugal tax attorney who seemed very knowledgeable. There was a lot of information specific to Americans, so you may find it useful.

Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GGXpnx ... w9585/view

- 26 minute mark he starts to specifically cover Passive Income.
- Around 33 minute mark he specifically mentions Roth IRA's as being deemed a "pension" in the eyes of Portugal and thus NHR eligible.
Very helpful, especially the video. Thank you!

It appears that while a Roth will likely be treated as a pension (10% flat tax at age 59.5 or older), a Roth Conversion Ladder for younger retirees pulling out the contributions *may* be treated as regular capital gains taxed at 28%. I'll probably have to actually pay an international tax professional from Portugal to get a more exact answer but the video definitely helped for planning out tax & cost scenarios if we move to Portugal from the USA.
WhiteMaxima
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Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:04 pm

Re: Golden Visa Programs

Post by WhiteMaxima »

Early retiree at age 55 could pull out 401k as pension to live in Portugal. If the pull out is taxed in the USA at 12% then it will not be taxed in Portugal because 12%>10%.
Curious1
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Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:59 am

Re: Golden Visa Programs

Post by Curious1 »

We moved to Portugal 13 months ago under the D7 visa. We had lived outside the US for many years, so this move was easy. There is a Facebook group, Americans & Friends PT, that has a wealth of information for anyone considering a move or who has already made the move
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