Taiwan Local Chapter

Non-US Local Chapters, Wiki, and general Bogleheads community discussion, news, events, and announcements.
verfasser
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by verfasser »

YellowJoe

I am a Boglehead in Taiwan.
It's possible for investors in Taiwan to invest in indexing vehicles.

The most cost-efficient way is to open an US brokerage account.
Although foreign investors are not allowed to invest in US-domiciled mutual funds.
We can use ETFs to build our portfolio.

Many Vanguard ETFs are a share class of mutual funds.
They hold the same securities.

ETFs bought and held for long term can achieve the same function of mutual funds.

Don't trade ETFs.

:o
YellowJoe
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by YellowJoe »

LadyGeek wrote:I PM'd someone who can help.
Thank you LadyGeek.

From my research, Taiwanese investing in local means in Taiwan can not come close to any Bogle-head strategy.

1. Fees are too high. This one fact makes it impossible to invest bogle style in taiwan. Blackrock, Fidelity (europe) are here in Taiwan but their fees are 1.5-2.0% TER.

2. very low choice of ETF's and ETF's have very LOW VOLUME. Therefore huge Liquidity risk.

So, unless this Taiwan Chapter Boglehead has some information that i cant seem to pinpoint, its impossible to do Boglehead in Taiwan.

The only alternative is open accounts in Hong Kong and invest in HK and US dollars....

For sure the Taiwan Polaris 50 index isnt even enough to globally diversify for the long term. It has so many risk factors to take into account: country risk, sector risk, currency risk...to name a few...
northernisland
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by northernisland »

Hi, I know TW pretty well. I think you're probably right that none of the local financial vehicles meet the normal Boglehead sniff test. You could probably use boglehead principles in other ways, doing a self-assembled index, finding the absolute cheapest indexes available, etc. There's a Chinese translation of one of the books, so that might be a place to check to see how people do things. I just keep a US address and invest that way. My guess is that a large number of local bogleheads are using funds from elsewhere or have just adopted the strategy to mean "diversify and resist the urge to peek."
YellowJoe
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by YellowJoe »

northernisland wrote:Hi, I know TW pretty well. I think you're probably right that none of the local financial vehicles meet the normal Boglehead sniff test. You could probably use boglehead principles in other ways, doing a self-assembled index, finding the absolute cheapest indexes available, etc. There's a Chinese translation of one of the books, so that might be a place to check to see how people do things. I just keep a US address and invest that way. My guess is that a large number of local bogleheads are using funds from elsewhere or have just adopted the strategy to mean "diversify and resist the urge to peek."
Hello Northnisland,

i appreciate your response. Can't seem to a single response from the so-called Taiwanese boglehead folks. I'm starting to think that group is a FARCE.

Taiwan doesnt offer anything that can quality as boglehead style investing.

This is why 99.9% of taiwanese continue to think property is the best investment and are scared to death of stocks / bonds...

thanks again..
verfasser
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by verfasser »

Image

2015 Annual Meeting of Taiwan Bogleheads will be held on March 28, 2015 in Taipei from 13:10-17:00.

The event will be held at GIS NTU Convention Center.(Address : No 85, Sec 4, Roosevelt Rd, Daan District, Taipei, Taiwan)

This time we have five speakers. 3 local, and 2 from Vanguard.

The Conference Room:
Image


Agenda:
Image

Speakers:

The first is Mr.Chen. (That's me). His penname is “Greenhorn”. He wrote three investment titles and translated "The Investor's Manifesto" into traditional chinese. He deeply believes in the power of indexing and asset allocation.

The second speaker is Mr. Hsiao. His penname is 怪老子. He has 3 investment titles. His first book "Investment Principles You Should Know When You Get Your First Paycheck." is a long-time best seller.

The third is Mr. Chang. He will share with us his experience of transition from active to passive funds.

We are very excited to have 2 speakers from Vanguard.

The first is Jackson Loi. He is Head of Institutional Business, Hong Kong and Taiwan. He will talk about “Vanguard Case for Indexing in Asia.”

The second is Brian Roberts. He is Senior Products Manager of Portfolio Review Department. He will give us a speech about “Manager Selection and Oversight.”

If you would like to know more about this event and how to register, please use the link below:
http://greenhornfinancefootnote.blogspo ... nnual.html
Last edited by verfasser on Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
changt81
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by changt81 »

Hi Verfasser,

Is this Conference meeting free to everyone in Taiwan?
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LadyGeek
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by LadyGeek »

verfasser - I recommend you start a new thread in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum. It is investing news - especially for those in Taiwan.

Suggested title: Bogleheads 2015 Annual Conference - Taiwan

You can link to this thread.
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verfasser
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by verfasser »

LadyGeek wrote:verfasser - I recommend you start a new thread in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum. It is investing news - especially for those in Taiwan.

Suggested title: Bogleheads 2015 Annual Conference - Taiwan

You can link to this thread.
Thank you, LadyGeek.
I have posted this news at "Investing-Theory, News & General"
FredL
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by FredL »

Can anyone buy Vanguard products in Taiwan since there is a local chapter here. I am in US, but have friends here who are interested.
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by LadyGeek »

Here's the link: Bogleheads 2015 Annual Conference - Taiwan

If no one answers here, then ask in the other thread. Or, start a new thread.

verfasser - The time has passed quickly. I'm glad to see you are doing well.
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flyingaway
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by flyingaway »

I am just wondering what people in Taiwan invest in? Do they invest in U.S. index funds?
verfasser
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by verfasser »

LadyGeek wrote:Here's the link: Bogleheads 2015 Annual Conference - Taiwan

If no one answers here, then ask in the other thread. Or, start a new thread.

verfasser - The time has passed quickly. I'm glad to see you are doing well.
LadyGeek, thanks for your help. You are still actively helping people on this forum.

Indeed, time flies. Bogleheads Reunion 11 is one of my most-cherished memories.
Hope I can fly to the States and join the meeting again.

(Update: There are now 160 Bogleheads in Taiwan registered for this event.)
YellowJoe
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by YellowJoe »

from my research, there is NO WAY to do low-cost, low fee Bogle-style investing from taiwan market.

This AGENDA looks very weak from my point of view.

Only 30 minutes on how to build a porfolio with Index funds?

More time should be given towards on INVESTMENT FUND / ETF options for a potential Taiwan boglehead investor...
verfasser
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by verfasser »

YellowJoe wrote:from my research, there is NO WAY to do low-cost, low fee Bogle-style investing from taiwan market.

This AGENDA looks very weak from my point of view.

Only 30 minutes on how to build a porfolio with Index funds?

More time should be given towards on INVESTMENT FUND / ETF options for a potential Taiwan boglehead investor...
YellowJoe

Thanks for your comments.
Maybe you could try to do more research.

Since most attendees already know how to invest in low-cost index funds and ETFs,
it's not necessary to explain these technical details in this meeting.
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by LadyGeek »

YellowJoe - The Bogleheads wiki has several articles about investing in Taiwan, see: Category:Taiwan

Read the articles, then prepare questions for the meeting. (You may ask questions in this forum at any time.)

verfasser - Attendees are there because they have an interesting in investing. The experiences range from "absolute beginner" to "world-wide expert". It is difficult to arrange a meeting agenda to cover everyone, but each attendee should leave the meeting feeling that it was a worthwhile experience.

May I suggest having small "special topic" discussions to address new investors, or perhaps other topics of interest?

For example, the Bogleheads Conference held many simulataneous sessions during the book-signing. I was demonstrating the wiki, someone else was discussing investments, another was for Bogleheads local chapters, another for retirement planning (I think). Taken individually, each topic did not justify the attention of the full session. However, there was enough interest to have a small session for each of these topics.

For reference, the wiki allows you to save articles in PDF format. Look at the bottom of the left-side menu, under "Print/export". Consider using some of this material for the meeting.
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verfasser
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by verfasser »

LadyGeek, thanks for your help.

You are right. As an investor in Taiwan who has been using Vanguard funds and ETFs for 9 years, sometimes I underestimate the need of novice investors.

I will try to add some features and make the meeting more appealing to invetors who are just beginning to use index funds.
YellowJoe
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by YellowJoe »

hi ladygeek,

I been asking and inquiring about details and specifics about bogle-style investment options for Taiwanese for a long time and this is what you send me? I appreciate it but it read this already it is FAR FROM GLOBALLY Diversified.

These wiki links you gave me only provide Taiwan based ETFs / Funds that cover primarily the country of Taiwan (maybe some other parts of asia) which is FAR FROM being diversified enough. Taiwan only has about 8 large companies that have any global significance and Taiwan is so tilted towards TECH sector whenever there is a bull market.

hi Verfasser,

The other solution of opening an account in USA is not a good solution either. There are estate / tax considerations that make it very risky for a Taiwanese. Also,now with USA FATCA laws really being implemented around the world; i strongly suggest against a Taiwanese even touching the USA trading platform t to trade US stocks / ETFs. There are other ways to do that I would not talk about here, but I am surprised this Taiwan Chapter isn't addressing FATCA / USA Taxes (divdend/estate) / Risks....




LadyGeek wrote:YellowJoe - The Bogleheads wiki has several articles about investing in Taiwan, see: Category:Taiwan

Read the articles, then prepare questions for the meeting. (You may ask questions in this forum at any time.)

verfasser - Attendees are there because they have an interesting in investing. The experiences range from "absolute beginner" to "world-wide expert". It is difficult to arrange a meeting agenda to cover everyone, but each attendee should leave the meeting feeling that it was a worthwhile experience.

May I suggest having small "special topic" discussions to address new investors, or perhaps other topics of interest?

For example, the Bogleheads Conference held many simulataneous sessions during the book-signing. I was demonstrating the wiki, someone else was discussing investments, another was for Bogleheads local chapters, another for retirement planning (I think). Taken individually, each topic did not justify the attention of the full session. However, there was enough interest to have a small session for each of these topics.

For reference, the wiki allows you to save articles in PDF format. Look at the bottom of the left-side menu, under "Print/export". Consider using some of this material for the meeting.
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by LadyGeek »

Hi YellowJoe,

The wiki content is created by the forum member's interest and ability to contribute to the wiki. We depend on the membership to provide us with good information; this is all we have.

If you have suggestions to improve the wiki; please feel free to post your suggestions here, in a new forum thread, or in Suggestions for the Wiki.
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YellowJoe
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by YellowJoe »

LadyGeek wrote:Hi YellowJoe,

The wiki content is created by the forum member's interest and ability to contribute to the wiki. We depend on the membership to provide us with good information; this is all we have.

If you have suggestions to improve the wiki; please feel free to post your suggestions here, in a new forum thread, or in Suggestions for the Wiki.

thanks for the reply...
verfasser
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by verfasser »

Today I registered for the 2015 Bogleheads Conference in Oct.
Hope my check arrive in time.

Any Bogleheads in Taiwan interested in this event?
Being able to see Mr. Bogle in person and collecting investing wisdom from financial experts,
it is definitely worth the trip.
Last edited by verfasser on Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by Mel Lindauer »

verfasser wrote:Today I registered for the 2015 Bogleheads Conference in Oct.
Hope my check arrive in time.

Any Bogleheads in Taiwan interested in this event?
Being able to see Mr. Bogle in person and collecting investing wisdom from many finanacial experts,
it is definitely worth the trip.
Looking forward to seeing you again, verfasser.

Best regards,

Mel
verfasser
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by verfasser »

Mel Lindauer wrote:
Looking forward to seeing you again, verfasser.

Best regards,

Mel
I am looking forward to seeing you, too.
Thank you for your dedication to the Bogleheads community and the annual event.
YellowJoe
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by YellowJoe »

Verfasser,

thanks for your reply.

i researched this EXTENSIVELY.

If your response is for a Taiwan person to open an account in USA and buy ETF's from USA trading platform. that is NOT a good long term solution.

This is the area that needs the most discussion and attention. Since one of the reasons is that money can not be in Taiwan dollars and must be in USA dollars.

There are so many other reasons that I can not even begin to discuss via a message on this thread.

I believe you and this taiwan boglehead organization needs to do more research.

You also need to address FATCA issues that are currently happening.

The concepts of bogle style indexing is very easy to understand. The LIMITED choices of low-fee investment funds is the most difficult part for any Taiwan investor.





verfasser wrote:
YellowJoe wrote:from my research, there is NO WAY to do low-cost, low fee Bogle-style investing from taiwan market.

This AGENDA looks very weak from my point of view.

Only 30 minutes on how to build a porfolio with Index funds?

More time should be given towards on INVESTMENT FUND / ETF options for a potential Taiwan boglehead investor...
YellowJoe

Thanks for your comments.
Maybe you could try to do more research.

Since most attendees already know how to invest in low-cost index funds and ETFs,
it's not necessary to explain these technical details in this meeting.
verfasser
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by verfasser »

Image
(This is the name tag of one of the speakers at Taiwan Bogleheads 2015 Meeting)

Last Saturday we had a pleasant meeting.
Five speakers shared their insights and took questions at the Q&A session.
I will post more photos of this event.

Thanks for the speakers, the working staff and every person who attended this meeting.
verfasser
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by verfasser »

Taiwan Bogleheads 2015 Annual Conference was held on Mar. 28 at the GIS NTU Convention Center.

270 Bogleheads attended the meeting. Five speakers shared their investing experiences and insights with us.

The conference room:
Image

The registration desk:
Image

Before the meeting began, a powerpoint file of 30 slides was displayed. It’s about the history of index funds, the origin of Vanguard, and the pioneers of index investing ie. John Bogle, Charles Ellis and Paul Samuelson.

Image

Image

The first speaker is Mr. Chen (Penname: Greenhorn). He is the organizer of the event.

His speech began with his early investment experience. After reading “Bogle on Mutual Funds”, he was convinced that index funds are the best way to go. However, when he looked at the list of mutual funds in Taiwan, he was frustrated to find that there is almost no index funds. It was impossible for investors in Taiwan to build a globally diversified indexing portfolio with local investment vehicles.

He solved this problem by gaining direct access to index funds and ETFs in the States.

After investing with Vanguard for almost 9 years, he noticed a very sharp contrast between mutual fund companies in Taiwan and Vanguard. And the difference stems from the main purpose of asset managers.

Most mutual fund companies are run for the sole purpose to make the most money from mutual fund investors. There are very few mutual companies that are run to bring the largest share of market return to their clients. And Vanguard is one of those rare exceptions. (Maybe it's the only exception.)

Low-cost index funds protect investors from the devastating effect of high cost and asset allocation keeps the temptation of market timing at bay.

Together, they form the foundation of a solid and sound investment plan.

The first speaker:
Image

The second speaker is Mr. Xiao (Penname:怪老子). He is a famous financial writer in Taiwan.

His shared with the audience how to design a retirement portfolio. The main challenge is to generate a relative stable stream of income from unstable financial markets.

He explained the concept of Monte Carlo Simulation. This simulation can test if the retirement has a high success rate.

The second speaker:
Image

The third speaker is Mr. Chang. He has over 20 years of investing experience. At first, he used active funds. After learning the idea of indexing, he converted to the passive camp. He shared with us the transition of his thinking, and how to suppress the desire for above-market returns.

The third speaker:
Image

Discussion at the coffee break
Image

After the coffee break, the fourth speaker, Jackson Loi, gave a speech about “Vanguard Case for Indexing in Asia.”

Jackson is Head of Institutional Business, Hong Kong and Taiwan.

The principles of indexing work in every market, Asian markets are no exception. Index funds is a powerful tool for investors everywhere.

He explained the global operation of Vanguard, its burgeoning business and the massive assets gathered by index funds and ETFs in recent years.

The fourth speaker:
Image

The fifth speaker is Brian Roberts. He is Senior Products Manager of Portfolio Review Department at Vanguard.

He talked about the disciplined approach of Vanguard to evaluate active managers. Low-costs and a long-term perspective are principles that apply both to active and passive investing. Vanguard does a good job in managing these active assets.

The fifth speaker:
Image

After these five speeches, there was a 40-minute coffee break. We enjoyed desserts and conversations with like-minded investors.

We prepared big thank-you cards for attendees to sign. These cards will be sent to Mr. Bogle

Snacks and desserts served at the meeting:
Image

Bogleheads in Taiwan signing cards for Mr. Bogle
Image

The last session is Q&A. Five speakers took questions from the audience.

Q&A session
Image

This year we distributed thermos bottles to each attendee. On the surface of the bottle is the inscription “In Indexing We Trust”, which we use as the slogan of this event.

The thermos bottle
Image

The inscription on bottle surface
Image

Bogleheads in Taiwan had a pleasant gathering on this special Saturday afternoon.

Special thanks to Jackson, Brian and their colleagues, who flew to Taiwan to join this meeting.

Indexing, an idea that works in every financial market, will surely spread to every corner of the world. It’s only a matter of time.
Last edited by verfasser on Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by Mel Lindauer »

Thanks for that great report, verfasser. Looking forward to seeing you again at the 2015 Bogleheads Conference in Philadelphia in October.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by LadyGeek »

The wiki has been updated: Taiwan Bogleheads 2015 conference

(Editing done by Barry Barnitz.)
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by digarei »

Thanks so much for posting this synopsis of your event and including large high quality images; they really help to convey the scope of what you're doing in Taiwan and the response. You must be doing something right! :happy

I know that many (most?) Taiwanese are proficient in English. I was wondering whether the conference panelists/speakers spoke in Mandarin Chinese or English? Or both? Also curious if you provided interpreters on stage to translate speech from Mandarin->English or English->Mandarin for attendees during the main program.

Thank you .
Connect with Bogleheads in Northern California! Click the link under my user info/avatar.
verfasser
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by verfasser »

Mel Lindauer wrote:Thanks for that great report, verfasser. Looking forward to seeing you again at the 2015 Bogleheads Conference in Philadelphia in October.
Thanks for your support for Bogleheads in Taiwan. We all remember your encouraging note that you sent to us at our annual meeting in 2013.

See you in Philly in October~~
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by verfasser »

LadyGeek wrote:The wiki has been updated: Taiwan Bogleheads 2015 conference

(Editing done by Barry Barnitz.)
LadyGeek and Barry,
Thank you~
You are highly efficient in keeping the wiki pages updated.
And Barry did a good job editing the article. It becomes more organized and readable.
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by verfasser »

digarei wrote:Thanks so much for posting this synopsis of your event and including large high quality images; they really help to convey the scope of what you're doing in Taiwan and the response. You must be doing something right! :happy

I know that many (most?) Taiwanese are proficient in English. I was wondering whether the conference panelists/speakers spoke in Mandarin Chinese or English? Or both? Also curious if you provided interpreters on stage to translate speech from Mandarin->English or English->Mandarin for attendees during the main program.

Thank you .
You are welcome.

At this event, the first four speakers delivered their speeches and answered questions in Chinese. The fifth speaker, Brian Roberts, in English.

We didn't provide interpreters on stage. At first, I was worried whether Brian's English speech is comprehensible for the audience. But when Brian began, I was relieved. He pronounced very clearly. The speed was just right, not too fast, not too slow. And all of his slides are translated into Chinese. He is a considerate speaker.

At the Q&A session, some attendees could bring up questions in English and talked to Brian fluently. It seems OK to have an English speaker with us.

In the questionnaire we sent to every attendee after the event, there was a question: " Do you think it's necessary to have an interpreter?"

The answers polarized. Many attendees thought that an interpreter was not necessary. They totally understood Brian. An interpreter would only interfere with the pace of speech. However, there were also many people replied that an interperter is indispensable.

That's not an easy problem to handle.

At least we can say that for attendees who undertand English, it's gratifying to listen to Brian's speech.
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by sens »

Hey,

discovered index funds recently and was very surprised to c a TW section here. I live in KHH so if anyone wanna meet up and talk to a newbie LMK :)
nightcatchiao
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by nightcatchiao »

Hi everyone out there,

I am interested in joining the Taiwan Local Chapter!

Cheers!
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by verfasser »

sens wrote:Hey,

discovered index funds recently and was very surprised to c a TW section here. I live in KHH so if anyone wanna meet up and talk to a newbie LMK :)
Hello Sens,

It's great to have you.
You live in Kaohsiung?
That's a nice place.
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by verfasser »

nightcatchiao wrote:Hi everyone out there,

I am interested in joining the Taiwan Local Chapter!

Cheers!
Welcome~

As long as you are using low-cost index funds to build you portfolio and practicing buy-and-hold strategy,
you are already a member of Bogleheads community.
sens
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by sens »

verfasser wrote:
sens wrote:Hey,

discovered index funds recently and was very surprised to c a TW section here. I live in KHH so if anyone wanna meet up and talk to a newbie LMK :)
Hello Sens,

It's great to have you.
You live in Kaohsiung?
That's a nice place.
Yes :)
marcopoloTW
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by marcopoloTW »

Anyone in Taipei/Taiwan? Would love to meet, have advices on how to navigate tax here or if you have any wise recommendations :)
mikecom
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Re: Taiwan Local Chapter

Post by mikecom »

Hello, I am new here , how may I join the Taiwan Local Chapter?

thanks

Mike
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