You Just Died

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
User avatar
Topic Author
Boglenaut
Posts: 3090
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:41 pm

You Just Died

Post by Boglenaut »

You just died.

Does your spouse know what to do financially? Can he or she manage without you? Have you talked about it before hand, because it is now too late.

Here is your final exam.

If single, replace spouse with heirs/estate.
Manbaerpig
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:32 am
Location: San Jose

Post by Manbaerpig »

"do I care" for extra credit
User avatar
Topic Author
Boglenaut
Posts: 3090
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:41 pm

Post by Boglenaut »

Manbaerpig wrote:"do I care" for extra credit
Nope, you just failed. :wink:
MWCA
Posts: 2820
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:21 pm
Location: A wonderful place

Post by MWCA »

Yes, she knows what to do. We have talked about it.

Question is can I manage without her... hmmm
We are all worms. But I believe that I am a glow-worm.
User avatar
Topic Author
Boglenaut
Posts: 3090
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:41 pm

Re: You Just Died

Post by Boglenaut »

Boglenaut wrote: Here is your final exam.
(I couldn't resist the pun)
chaz
Posts: 13604
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:44 pm

Post by chaz »

We have talked about it also. DW is very capable.
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
User avatar
Cloud
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:43 pm

Post by Cloud »

She'll have no problem at all. Actually she's the account (by profession) in our family. I only pay the bills and manage the money because she'd rather not come home from work and do even more accounting so to give her a break I take care of the bills.

Most of the younger generation I know each have their own separate money. I'm still amazed on how in the dark the spouses of many in the older generation are. If my father passes before my mother I'll have to help her out I'm sure.
User avatar
Opponent Process
Posts: 5157
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:19 pm

Post by Opponent Process »

she puts everything into Target Retirement 2020. I've had to stress that this doesn't mean she gets to/has to retire in 2020.
30/30/20/20 | US/International/Bonds/TIPS | Average Age=37
tim1999
Posts: 3858
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:16 am

Post by tim1999 »

Manbaerpig wrote:"do I care" for extra credit
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 1311534845 :roll:
Sidney
Posts: 6751
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:06 pm

Post by Sidney »

yes
I always wanted to be a procrastinator.
User avatar
NAVigator
Posts: 2475
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:24 am
Location: Iowa

Post by NAVigator »

Yes. I have informed my heirs (children) of where my records are kept and how to access them. They are co-executors so they have a copy of the legal docs. I have sent them each a book about Boglehead investing and I am walking through that information with them. (They live quite some distance away, so this is conducted over the phone and through email.) I feel good about the progress made.

I want to pass now, but not pass away for a while. :wink:

Jerry
Last edited by NAVigator on Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I was born with nothing and I have most of it left."
User avatar
Topic Author
Boglenaut
Posts: 3090
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:41 pm

Post by Boglenaut »

NAVigator wrote: I want to pass now, but not pass away for a while. :wink:
I hope you are posting here for a very long time.


Yes. I have informed my heirs (children) of where my records are kept and how to access them. They are co-executors so they have a copy of the legal docs. I have sent them each a book about Boglehead investing and I am walking through that information with them. (They live quite some distance away, so this is conducted over the phone and through email.) I feel good about the progress made.

May others learn from your example.
Helloeeze
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:47 am

Post by Helloeeze »

I should give my husband the passwords to the Vanguard and Fidelity account so he'll know how to look and see how much money we have. He might be pleasantly surprised.
rocket
Posts: 703
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:24 am
Location: Hard Scrabble, MS

estate planning documents in Red folders

Post by rocket »

YES
I have all my estate planning documents in Red folders. My Red folders contain only estate planning documents. She knows that.
fishndoc
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:50 am

Post by fishndoc »

You just died.
That means, DW is going to put all my fishing gear up for sale, and in the process will find out how much I really paid for it. :shock:
I'm in deep, deep trouble.
" Successful investing involves doing just a few things right, and avoiding serious mistakes." - J. Bogle
User avatar
norookie
Posts: 3016
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:55 pm

Post by norookie »

fishndoc wrote:
You just died.
That means, DW is going to put all my fishing gear up for sale, and in the process will find out how much I really paid for it. :shock:
I'm in deep, deep trouble.
:D ROFL.....I saw this happen @ a firearms estate auction in AZ. Many 1800's "COLT" peacemakers fetching 1k or less at auction. Ruskie AKs, and SKSs that accepted AK 30rnders, 120.00 and up, although thats not THAT bad. :? His related womenz were not happy with the total. A nice original Henry 44-40, pristine was 325.00. However this was about a decade ago. OPs question...yes, its in black and white with witnesses.
Last edited by norookie on Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
" Wealth usually leads to excess " Cicero 55 b.c
traineeinvestor
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:52 am
Location: Hong Kong
Contact:

Post by traineeinvestor »

There is a folder with everything in it, except the current passwords to my on-line accounts. Of course, it would probably make her life easier if I told her that the folder existed and where to find it. :roll:
Don Robins
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 1:44 pm

Re: You Just Died

Post by Don Robins »

Boglenaut wrote:You just died.

Does your spouse know what to do financially? Can he or she manage without you? Have you talked about it before hand, because it is now too late.

Here is your final exam.

If single, replace spouse with heirs/estate.
If you just died, you are undoubtedly dead. You have passed your "final exam." The world will go on.
Last edited by Don Robins on Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Toons
Posts: 13967
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:20 am
Location: Hills of Tennessee

Post by Toons »

We talked about it recently,,,I made sure she has all my pin numbers so she can access accounts :D
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
User avatar
nisiprius
Advisory Board
Posts: 43186
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:33 am
Location: The terrestrial, globular, planetary hunk of matter, flattened at the poles, is my abode.--O. Henry

Post by nisiprius »

Please, please, please! Such rough directness. Go a little easier:

"You just shuffled off this mortal coil."

"You just took your Long Vacation in Oregon."

"You just successfully completed your retirement."
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
User avatar
Imperabo
Posts: 1109
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:00 am

Post by Imperabo »

Cherokee8215 wrote:
Manbaerpig wrote:"do I care" for extra credit
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 1311534845 :roll:

It might not be snarkiness. I have to strain mightily to care what happens after I cease to exist.
User avatar
zaplunken
Posts: 1061
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:07 am

Post by zaplunken »

Not only have I talked about it I have created a document detailing what to do and how to do it along with another document with userids and passwords. I'm covered.
User avatar
LazyNihilist
Posts: 952
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:56 pm

Post by LazyNihilist »

It doesn't matter. Nothing matters after I die. :twisted:
The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must -Thucydides
SP-diceman
Posts: 3968
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:17 am

Re: You Just Died

Post by SP-diceman »

Boglenaut wrote:You just died.
Geeez, I wish I had stopped working a few years ago! :)
User avatar
Tortoise
Posts: 367
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:24 am
Location: San Jose

Post by Tortoise »

I care a lot that my family will be provided for after I am gone.

Barring accident, it is a sure thing that I will predecease my wife. I may even predecease my mother. My mother and I have gone over her will and made sure it has provision that my share of inheritance automatically passes to my son in the event I am not living when she dies.

My wife has all account information, as well as knowledge of on-line passwords. She has invested her IRA and 401(k) money in TSM and TBM.

She knows all the basics of Boglehead investing and will hopefully read our copies of the Boglehead Guides in more depth once I am gone.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest." --Mark Twain
User avatar
Tyrobi
Posts: 701
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:29 pm
Location: Florida
Contact:

Post by Tyrobi »

I recently complete the Letter of Instruction in the Event of Our Deaths or Incapacitation.

It's mainly for my daughter in case something happens to my wife and me. My wife can also use it if she survives me.
Three-fund portfolio | "Simplicity is the master key to financial success." John C. Bogle
Don Robins
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 1:44 pm

Post by Don Robins »

You have now been dead for 7 hours and six minutes.
User avatar
Topic Author
Boglenaut
Posts: 3090
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:41 pm

Post by Boglenaut »

nisiprius wrote:
"You just successfully completed your retirement."
That one is indeed better.
You have now been dead for 7 hours and six minutes.
I suspect you will remain so for quite some time. I am glad to see so many people planned accordingly.
User avatar
Info_Hound
Posts: 363
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:47 am
Location: Threw a dart in a map and moved

Post by Info_Hound »

This was not a test. My hubby passed away suddenly and we found out the hard way what is really needed to live on after our loss. After all, we were too young to die just yet, or so we thought.

Legal paperwork is a must, but there is much more needed to allow surviors to cope with your absence. Passwords and pins and account numbers written down and placed in that same red folder is critical information in the short term.

Also add name and contact information, someone else may be helping your loved one and they don't know this informaiton. I know this is a big security no-no, but the shock of your loss will reduce the recall ability of your loved one and sometimes things need to move faster than they can deal with at the time.

I had to deal with this and I have a minor daughter also. I learned the value of a good estate lawyer in drawing up the needed legal papers. I struggled with all things related to the computers and networks because all the software, network and adm. passwords passed away also. Good geek support is golden with so much of our lives passing by on a computer screen.

I have a red folder with all my legal paperwork, contact info, passwords, pins etc. stored in it. Passports, vehicle titles and insurance information as well. My daughter and both of the executors of the estate know where the red folder is. A copy of the will is on file at the court house.

My daughter and the executors will not be left helpless and floundering for months trying to piece together a different life without me.

I will fail the final exam, but my daughter will pass the test.
User avatar
prudent
Moderator
Posts: 7936
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 2:50 pm

Post by prudent »

My challenge is that my wife, who is a wonderful person who does volunteer work relentlessly, just does not "get" finance in any way. We sit down together to review our status once a year but if I asked her a week later for even a general recap of the discussion, she couldn't do it. She's very bad with numbers.

So when trying to advise her what to do if I die first, I am tempted to recommend she just talk to a banker friend of ours and let him pick an adviser and hand it all over to the adviser. I hate that thought but I have to face the reality that she will only feel frustrated and overwhelmed if she has to manage it on her own. She would be most comfortable if someone just told her "You can spend $X a month and we'll put that amount in your checking account on the first day of the month". She could manage that.

I need a better idea though.
User avatar
bearwolf
Posts: 1718
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:34 am
Location: Oklahoma

Post by bearwolf »

prudent wrote:My challenge is that my wife, who is a wonderful person who does volunteer work relentlessly, just does not "get" finance in any way. We sit down together to review our status once a year but if I asked her a week later for even a general recap of the discussion, she couldn't do it. She's very bad with numbers.

So when trying to advise her what to do if I die first, I am tempted to recommend she just talk to a banker friend of ours and let him pick an adviser and hand it all over to the adviser. I hate that thought but I have to face the reality that she will only feel frustrated and overwhelmed if she has to manage it on her own. She would be most comfortable if someone just told her "You can spend $X a month and we'll put that amount in your checking account on the first day of the month". She could manage that.

I need a better idea though.
I think you should start interviewing financial advisors now rather than wait till you die and let your wife decide. That way you can find one who has a similar philosophy to yours. You don't have to move assets now, just have a list of 2 or 3 firms you are comfortable with and rank them in order. Put the list in with your letter of instruction for when the day comes.

Just a thought.

BearWolf
Tom_T
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:33 pm

Post by Tom_T »

How do some of the Bogleheads here employ professionals for this circumstance? Besides preparing a will, POA, etc., is your lawyer/accountant charged to perform any additional functions in the case of your death? Do you leave instructions to your spouse to "call the lawyer and call the accountant"?
Fallible
Posts: 7730
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:44 pm
Contact:

Post by Fallible »

bearwolf wrote:
prudent wrote:My challenge is that my wife, who is a wonderful person who does volunteer work relentlessly, just does not "get" finance in any way. We sit down together to review our status once a year but if I asked her a week later for even a general recap of the discussion, she couldn't do it. She's very bad with numbers.

So when trying to advise her what to do if I die first, I am tempted to recommend she just talk to a banker friend of ours and let him pick an adviser and hand it all over to the adviser. I hate that thought but I have to face the reality that she will only feel frustrated and overwhelmed if she has to manage it on her own. She would be most comfortable if someone just told her "You can spend $X a month and we'll put that amount in your checking account on the first day of the month". She could manage that.

I need a better idea though.
I think you should start interviewing financial advisors now rather than wait till you die and let your wife decide. That way you can find one who has a similar philosophy to yours. You don't have to move assets now, just have a list of 2 or 3 firms you are comfortable with and rank them in order. Put the list in with your letter of instruction for when the day comes.

Just a thought.

BearWolf
I very much agree that you should arrange for an advisor now as that will smooth the transition for your wife and help assure that your financial style is carried on. You might also type up a short list of important points for your wife to have (could be part of the Letter of Instruction) that could help her judge the new advisor and make sure he/she is doing what you wanted. What you want to avoid here is the possibility that a new advisor might take advantage of your wife's lack of financial know-how. Also, if your wife is uninterested in financial matters, it's going to be very hard for her to find the right financial advisor on her own. In fact, finding the right advisor is not an easy task for anyone.
Grt2bOutdoors
Posts: 23537
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: New York

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

Thanks for the reminder - I fail with a grade of minus 98.
You now know what I will be doing during my vacation. :shock:
User avatar
Topic Author
Boglenaut
Posts: 3090
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:41 pm

Post by Boglenaut »

Actually, we failed as well. My wife and I decided to make time to talk about some of the ideas above.
User avatar
SSSS
Posts: 1893
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:50 am

Re: You Just Died

Post by SSSS »

Boglenaut wrote:If single, replace spouse with heirs/estate.
I don't know who my heirs would be... do I pass?
User avatar
NAVigator
Posts: 2475
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:24 am
Location: Iowa

Post by NAVigator »

One important set of documents involves medical issues; the medical power of attorney and the medical advance directive. These documents vary according to the laws of each state and the terms for them also vary (such as living will). Many hospitals keep your advance directive document on file by scanning it into their computer system. It is prudent to have this done at your local hospitals and with your primary care physician if necessary.

The medical document descriptions and their locations might be something to add to a "near" end of life document (such as "In Case of Emergency" or ICE) or otherwise provided to the person you trust with a medical POA.

Jerry
"I was born with nothing and I have most of it left."
User avatar
prudent
Moderator
Posts: 7936
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 2:50 pm

Post by prudent »

Yes, I guess the right thing to do is to have an advisor already lined up for my wife to use in case I die. This is going to be awkward. Trying to find an advisor based on a vague "You won't get any business today, but maybe you'll get some business at a future time that might be tomorrow or maybe 5, 10 or 25 years from now."

But I have to agree, that's the right way to go. I might have to do it more than once since if I have someone lined up now, in 10 years or so I might need to find someone else to be in the on-deck circle.
Don Robins
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 1:44 pm

Post by Don Robins »

How long do you plan on remaining dead?
chaz
Posts: 13604
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: You Just Died

Post by chaz »

SSSS wrote:
Boglenaut wrote:If single, replace spouse with heirs/estate.
I don't know who my heirs would be... do I pass?
The statutes of your state will tell you.
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
chaz
Posts: 13604
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:44 pm

Post by chaz »

"You just successfully completed your retirement.", well said Nisi.
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
User avatar
aja8888
Posts: 484
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:28 pm
Location: The Woodlands, Texas

Post by aja8888 »

While this is all good stuff, one must also make plans for IF your spouse dies first.
epilnk
Posts: 2682
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:05 pm

Post by epilnk »

My husband has no interest in our finances but he is perfectly capable of taking care of himself and the children. He may make different decisions and he would most likely manage the finances less efficiently than I do but I wouldn't dream of leaving him instructions other than reminding him where the big file of info is stashed. He knows why the portfolio is in index funds, I seriously doubt he'll change it much. But it's his to manage when I'm gone - he's not a child.

The letter of instruction is for the sibling who must take over the finances for our minor children if we are both gone. He has no idea what our financial status is.
chaz
Posts: 13604
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:44 pm

Post by chaz »

aja8888 wrote:While this is all good stuff, one must also make plans for IF your spouse dies first.
I'm capable of taking care of myself, if necessary.
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
aida2003
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:44 pm

Post by aida2003 »

epilnk wrote:My husband has no interest in our finances but he is perfectly capable of taking care of himself and the children. He may make different decisions and he would most likely manage the finances less efficiently than I do but I wouldn't dream of leaving him instructions other than reminding him where the big file of info is stashed. He knows why the portfolio is in index funds, I seriously doubt he'll change it much. But it's his to manage when I'm gone - he's not a child.
It sounds almost like in our family. My DH is happy I can manage all this stuff now.
LynnC
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:01 pm
Location: California

Post by LynnC »

Tom_T wrote:How do some of the Bogleheads here employ professionals for this circumstance? Besides preparing a will, POA, etc., is your lawyer/accountant charged to perform any additional functions in the case of your death? Do you leave instructions to your spouse to "call the lawyer and call the accountant"?
YES, my CPA and attorney are involved after we both go. My DH has written his things down for me and I have written my investing part down for him. We have a book that contains everything.

As a previous poster has said, this is not a test and we all should have things prepared for the other.

LynnC
User avatar
archbish99
Posts: 1649
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:02 pm

Post by archbish99 »

Yeah, if my wife dies, our food & travel expenses go down, our taxes go up (filing as single), and my free time just got consumed by all the chores she does while I'm at work.

It wouldn't be a catastrophe from a financial point of view, just from a life point of view.

She knows what to do if I die -- take the life insurance, pay off the mortgage, invest the rest in something simple at Vanguard and live on it until she can get her feet under her.
User avatar
JupiterJones
Posts: 2997
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:25 pm
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: You Just Died

Post by JupiterJones »

Boglenaut wrote:You just died.
Was it dysentery?

I hope at least the oxen survive without me...

JJ
Stay on target...
RebusCannébus
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:34 pm

What about VG?

Post by RebusCannébus »

Failed. :oops:

What about having my DW leverage VG financial services once I successfully complete my retirement?

I have a bullet list with the key points (mortgage, asset allocation, withdrawal %) and she could have Vanguard's in-house financial planners guide her along in building from the framework, yes? They may not be the best, but our finances aren't complicated, and crook-avoidance (achieved by using VG, I would hope) is paramount.
Peter
User avatar
Topic Author
Boglenaut
Posts: 3090
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:41 pm

Re: What about VG?

Post by Boglenaut »

RebusCannébus wrote:Failed. :oops:
Same here. We were at about 0%, but now I feel we'd score a 60% (D-). So we still have work to do. I just don't want to overwhelm her and I still am having doubts about my own mortality, which causes procrastination.
Post Reply