US Citizen Born Abroad

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rbaron
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US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by rbaron »

I am asking this for my sister-in-law....... She applied for Medicare on line. On the form she said she was a citizen, and was born on an Air Force Base in Japan. Place of birth is listed as APO San Francisco Ca with a number after like 90210 or some thing but not that.

SS sent her a letter telling her she is being denied benefits because of the born in Japan and her saying she is a US citizen. She has met with a SS officer who stated that she needs to get a form which states she was born on a US Air Force base, thus, making her a US citizen.

Has anyone gone through this confusion?
Is there anything she can do other than get the form because she talked to someone who stated that these forms were not available way back when she was born and this is a new thing the government needs for born abroad citizens.

Anyone point me kn the right direction?
Last edited by rbaron on Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
nocturne
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Re: SS Question

Post by nocturne »

Being born on a US military base doesn’t directly make one a citizen. It depends on the parents’ status.

Here’s a place to start:
https://www.findlaw.com/military/family ... broad.html
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JoeRetire
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Re: SS Question

Post by JoeRetire »

rbaron wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:04 pm I am asking this for my sister-in-law....... She applied for Medicare on line. On the form she said she was a citizen, and was born on an Air Force Base in Japan. Place of birth is listed as APO San Francisco Ca with a number after like 90210 or some thing but not that.
Was she born in Japan or San Francisco?

https://www.usbirthcertificates.com/art ... orn-abroad
"If your parents forgot to register your birth overseas, you should contact either the hospital or facilities where you were born or the base operator or public affairs office at your parent’s military installation."

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... broad.html
"You can apply for a CRBA by completing Form DS-2029. For instructions on how to apply for a CRBA, visit the webpage for the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate in the country where your child was born and navigate to the American Citizens Service section. Please note the application must be signed in front of a consular officer, notary public, or other person qualified to administer oaths."
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dbr
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Re: SS Question

Post by dbr »

Does she have a passport? It would mean that at some time in the past the US Dept. of State had verified her citizenship.
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Nestegg_User
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Re: SS Question

Post by Nestegg_User »

rbaron wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:04 pm I am asking this for my sister-in-law....... She applied for Medicare on line. On the form she said she was a citizen, and was born on an Air Force Base in Japan. Place of birth is listed as APO San Francisco Ca with a number after like 90210 or some thing but not that.

SS sent her a letter telling her she is being denied benefits because of the born in Japan and her saying she is a US citizen. She has met with a SS officer who stated that she needs to get a form which states she was born on a US Air Force base, thus, making her a US citizen.

Has anyone gone through this confusion?
Is there anything she can do other than get the form because she talked to someone who stated that these forms were not available way back when she was born and this is a new thing the government needs for born abroad citizens.

Anyone point me kn the right direction?

They should have gotten a birth certificate, if I remember it was given by the consulate for the country... I hadn't seen the relatives birth certificate recently so I don't know if it listed Tachikawa AFB, Tokyo, or just Japan as place of birth. It has a Secretary of State seal... so any experienced Social Security rep should understand that they are citizens (and it would have been needed for any US passport)
BrokerageZelda
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Re: SS Question

Post by BrokerageZelda »

dbr wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:04 pm Does she have a passport? It would mean that at some time in the past the US Dept. of State had verified her citizenship.
The SSA/Medicare require more detail about date and place of birth than even a passport can provide (the passport is sufficient for proving current citizenship, though).

https://www.ssa.gov/help/iClaim_poa.html

JoeRetire's link is the correct one:
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... broad.html

Someone born outside the United States who gained US citizenship only through the citizenship of one or more parents should have already obtained the State Department-issued Consular Report of Birth Abroad (CRBA), which takes the place of a state-issued birth certificate when applying for a passport, REAL ID, etc. when proof of citizenship and/or detailed birth information is required. If that cannot be located, ideally a new one should be purchased from the State Department, as the 'birth certificate' is an important personal vital record to have on hand for times like these.
Topic Author
rbaron
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Re: SS Question

Post by rbaron »

BrokerageZelda...........

This was back in the late 1950's..... did they have such certificate then?
BrokerageZelda
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Re: SS Question

Post by BrokerageZelda »

rbaron wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:10 am BrokerageZelda...........

This was back in the late 1950's..... did they have such certificate then?
I do not know and wasn't able to find on a quick Google search whether the same type of certificate existed back then. If it did not, then perhaps there is a birth record of some kind from the Air Force hospital that might be accepted as proof of birth even if it is not a fully featured certificate.

The SSA website above shows a few alternative documents that might be easier to obtain in the short term:
If we ask for proof of your age, you must show us a birth certificate or religious record showing your age that was made before you were age 5 if one was established. This is our preferred proof of age.

If a public or religious record was not made before you were age 5, you must show us at least two other documents you may have that prove your age, such as a:
  • birth certificate recorded after you were age 5,
  • school record,
  • State census record,
  • vaccination record,
  • insurance policy,
  • hospital admission record, etc.
  • Please show us the oldest of these documents.
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obafgkm
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Re: SS Question

Post by obafgkm »

rbaron, you might get more responses if you change your subject heading to something more specific to what you are asking, like “SS Question (US Citizen Born Abroad)”.

You can change the subject by clicking on the “pencil” in the upper right of your original post.
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Yooper
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Re: SS Question

Post by Yooper »

rbaron wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:10 am BrokerageZelda...........

This was back in the late 1950's..... did they have such certificate then?
https://www.usbirthcertificates.com/glo ... orm-fs-545
https://fam.state.gov/FAM/08FAM/08FAM030303.html These might be of some help, but regardless she's probably going to have to write the Department of State and find out how births were recorded prior to FS-545 (which first came into use in 1960). There certainly had to be some mechanism. The APO address she listed is simply a military mailing address, not a physical address.
obgraham
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Re: SS Question

Post by obgraham »

rbaron wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:10 am BrokerageZelda...........

This was back in the late 1950's..... did they have such certificate then?
I'm quite sure that such a document, filed in the 50's, still exists in a government warehouse somewhere. Now whether or not it can be located, that's another matter.
When I took out US citizenship in 2004 I was amazed to see the interview officer had in front of her the original immigration forms from 1957. Not just an electronic copy, too.
NYGiantsFan
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Re: SS Question

Post by NYGiantsFan »

obgraham wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:31 pm I'm quite sure that such a document, filed in the 50's, still exists in a government warehouse somewhere. Now whether or not it can be located, that's another matter.
When I took out US citizenship in 2004 I was amazed to see the interview officer had in front of her the original immigration forms from 1957. Not just an electronic copy, too.
It is in reverse. Instead of being amazed, I feel sorry for the current state of process. As per WSJ, paper based system is still being used in this day and age!!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/with-paper ... 1643025603
seawolf21
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by seawolf21 »

rbaron wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:04 pm I am asking this for my sister-in-law....... She applied for Medicare on line. On the form she said she was a citizen, and was born on an Air Force Base in Japan. Place of birth is listed as APO San Francisco Ca with a number after like 90210 or some thing but not that.

SS sent her a letter telling her she is being denied benefits because of the born in Japan and her saying she is a US citizen. She has met with a SS officer who stated that she needs to get a form which states she was born on a US Air Force base, thus, making her a US citizen.

Has anyone gone through this confusion?
Is there anything she can do other than get the form because she talked to someone who stated that these forms were not available way back when she was born and this is a new thing the government needs for born abroad citizens.

Anyone point me kn the right direction?
Sounds to me SSA doesn't know your sister in law is a US Citizen. All she really have to do is send in current US passport and have them do a citizenship update with following form (use this form for update as well as new). I believe this can be done in SSA offices with an appointment due to COVID.

https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ss-5fs.pdf

See page 9
https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10002.pdf

https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/ha ... -1725.html
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/fil ... /M-767.pdf
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ResearchMed
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by ResearchMed »

seawolf21 wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:57 pm
rbaron wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:04 pm I am asking this for my sister-in-law....... She applied for Medicare on line. On the form she said she was a citizen, and was born on an Air Force Base in Japan. Place of birth is listed as APO San Francisco Ca with a number after like 90210 or some thing but not that.

SS sent her a letter telling her she is being denied benefits because of the born in Japan and her saying she is a US citizen. She has met with a SS officer who stated that she needs to get a form which states she was born on a US Air Force base, thus, making her a US citizen.

Has anyone gone through this confusion?
Is there anything she can do other than get the form because she talked to someone who stated that these forms were not available way back when she was born and this is a new thing the government needs for born abroad citizens.

Anyone point me kn the right direction?
Sounds to me SSA doesn't know your sister in law is a US Citizen. All she really have to do is send in current US passport and have them do a citizenship update with following form (use this form for update as well as new). I believe this can be done in SSA offices with an appointment due to COVID.

https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ss-5fs.pdf

See page 9
https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10002.pdf

https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/ha ... -1725.html
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/fil ... /M-767.pdf
OP hasn't provided some possibly relevant/important information.

What is the basis of your SIL's claim/belief that she is a citizen?
Hopefully it isn't just the fact that she is stating that she was born on a military base overseas.

So, what documentation does she have?
Were her parents US citizens?
There are many bits of information that could help here.

This may be more complicated than it appears, given that OP has not yet even answered if she has a US Passport. That answer could help.

RM
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friar1610
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by friar1610 »

My daughter, who is close to 50 now, was born in Spain when I was stationed there in the Navy. She was about 4 when we returned to the States. She was issued a US passport there in Spain but I don’t recall if that was done on the base or if we had to go to a consulate (probably Sevilla). But I was also told that it was really important to get a US Dept of State “Proof of US Citizenship for Those Born Abroad” certificate. I was told that she would need it if she ever applied for a security clearance, wanted to attend a service academy, etc. So when we returned to the US I dutifully assembled the required paper work, sent it off and we subsequently appeared at a hearing at the Federal Bldg in Baltimore. She got the certificate that I held onto for years until I officially declared her a “responsible adult” and turned it over to her.

As it turned out, going to a service academy or getting a security clearance were two of the furthest things from her mind as she reached her young adult years. I don’t know if she’s ever needed it for any other reason.
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nabakovfan1
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by nabakovfan1 »

She may need a certificate of citizenship. My niece was born on an American base in Korea and she needed one. Both her parents are American.

https://www.uscis.gov/n-600
newacct
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by newacct »

First of all, as has been mentioned, birth on a US military birth abroad does not confer US citizenship. 8 FAM 301.1-3.c(1):
Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities abroad are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not born in the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth;
The determination of her US citizenship would be the same as if she were born anywhere else in Japan. Her US citizen parent(s) need to meet the conditions described here for her to be a US citizen at birth. If both her parents were US citizens, then either one had to have a residence in the US some time before her birth. If one parent was a US citizen and one parent was an alien, then the US citizen parent had to have been physically present in the US for certain periods of time before her birth (the exact period required depends on when she was born; if she was born out of wedlock then it's more complicated). The citizenship is automatic if the conditions are met, but the documentation is not automatic.

Assuming her parents met the conditions for her to have been a US citizen at birth, if they wanted to get documentation of her citizenship, they would normally apply for a CRBA and a US passport for her when she was young. CRBA can only be issued to children under 18; if a CRBA was never applied for while she was under 18, she can no longer get one; if she still wants a certificate, she can file N-600 with USCIS to apply for a Certificate of Citizenship. However, this is generally unnecessary. As a US citizen, she can simply apply for a US passport directly without first having a CRBA or Certificate of Citizenship. A US passport is far cheaper ($165 for passport vs. $1,170 for N-600) and usually faster to get than a Certificate of Citizenship, and a passport is acceptable in pretty much every circumstance where a proof of citizenship or legal status is needed. For citizenship evidence when applying for a US passport, she would submit:
U.S. Citizenship at Birth

If you were born outside the United States and acquired U.S. citizenship through your U.S. citizen parent(s), please submit the following with your passport application:

* Your foreign birth certificate listing your parent(s)
* Your parent(s)’ evidence of U.S. citizenship
* Your parents' marriage certificate, if applicable
* A statement from your U.S. citizen parent(s) detailing all periods and places of their residence or physical presence in the United States and abroad before your birth.
Another option is to pay extra to request a file search instead of provide citizenship evidence with her passport application, and they will search for any past CRBA or US passport that may have been issued to her.
BluesH
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by BluesH »

My wife was born in Japan, post WWII, to an American serviceman father and Japanese mother. When my wife and I got married, we knew we wanted to travel internationally. We also knew that the post-WWII records in Japan were terrible, even those held by the US military. Starting about a year before our first planned trip, she wrote to the DoD to request documentation as a US citizen born overseas to a US serviceman. It's good she started so early. About 6 months after the request, she got a letter from the DoD. Paraphrasing, it said "we have found evidence that you're in our records. Please be patient..."

She got her documentation a few months later, and a US passport shortly after that. She's been on Medicare for about 8 years now, and on Social Security for a few years less than that.

Correction -- Wife has informed me that her mail interaction was with the State Department, not DoD.
Last edited by BluesH on Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rbaron
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by rbaron »

OP hasn't provided some possibly relevant/important information.

What is the basis of your SIL's claim/belief that she is a citizen?
Hopefully it isn't just the fact that she is stating that she was born on a military base overseas.


Not sure if that is all she has. I find it amazing that a person can live their entire life, working, paying into SS and Medicare with out anyone asking questions. But when one wants to start collecting SS and go on Medicare, there is all kinds of problems. At least for her. Others in her same situation, born out of US on a US military base to a US citizen (father) and a Japanese mother.

I want to thank all that are trying to lead me in the right direction on this. The information above has been very helpful and I thank all again.
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ResearchMed
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by ResearchMed »

rbaron wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:11 am OP hasn't provided some possibly relevant/important information.

What is the basis of your SIL's claim/belief that she is a citizen?
Hopefully it isn't just the fact that she is stating that she was born on a military base overseas.


Not sure if that is all she has. I find it amazing that a person can live their entire life, working, paying into SS and Medicare with out anyone asking questions. But when one wants to start collecting SS and go on Medicare, there is all kinds of problems. At least for her. Others in her same situation, born out of US on a US military base to a US citizen (father) and a Japanese mother.

I want to thank all that are trying to lead me in the right direction on this. The information above has been very helpful and I thank all again.
It can get complicated, unfortunately.

But please do answer the questions being asked so that we can try to help with more relevant information or advice, etc.
We aren't trying to get "personal details" for no reason.

For example, were her parents married?
From the way you are mentioning her parents, it sounds like perhaps her parents weren't married then (or ever)?
If the US citizen parent had been the mother rather than the father, this probably would have been a bit easier (but I'm not totally sure of that).

As for the working here (in the US) and paying into SS/etc., think about it. If that alone provided citizenship, there wouldn't be so many "issues" about "how to get US citizenship"... just live here and work/get paid here. Needless to say, it doesn't work that way here, or in just about any other country (but perhaps there are countries where this would work??).

It seems that this may depend upon proof of her father's identity (if parents weren't married at the time), including some issues about his residence time in the US, etc.

And it's definitely too bad that this wasn't dealt with at or shortly after her birth, or at least when it would have been easier to get the specific documentation needed.

This is your SIL. Is there any information or documentation that your spouse might have that could help?

Good luck!

RM
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Topic Author
rbaron
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by rbaron »

I gave my Sister-in-Law the link to this thread so she may jump in here and ask questions. I hope this is ok. She is beside herself because she feels no on at SS or Medicare is willing to help with her situation. So maybe she can ask the question(s) better than I.

Thanks much.....
dbr
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by dbr »

rbaron wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:40 am I gave my Sister-in-Law the link to this thread so she may jump in here and ask questions. I hope this is ok. She is beside herself because she feels no on at SS or Medicare is willing to help with her situation. So maybe she can ask the question(s) better than I.

Thanks much.....
It is frustrating, but it isn't a surprise that SS or Medicare would not be involved in solving a problem like this. It would be good to know if there is a support system someplace in our government for solving problems like this. It appears that the State Department is a possible resource.
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ResearchMed
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by ResearchMed »

rbaron wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:40 am I gave my Sister-in-Law the link to this thread so she may jump in here and ask questions. I hope this is ok. She is beside herself because she feels no on at SS or Medicare is willing to help with her situation. So maybe she can ask the question(s) better than I.

Thanks much.....
Of course it's ok!
We will all welcome her, about this issue or other related issues!
Have her sign up with a user ID of her choice.

It would help if she identifies herself as "your sister-in-law", and also if she answers all questions, so we can help.
Remind her that we have no idea who she is, other than, at this point, "rbaron's SIL" :happy
Also remind her not to put in any identifying information, such as where she lives or works/worked, etc. Although we can help her best if we have certain information, we do not need to be able to identify "who she really is", and we should not be able to do that, etc.

So, for example, which parent was the US citizen and were they married at the time of her birth, etc. - those are among the bits of information that could make a critical difference in helping her get the right information about how to proceed, etc.

RM
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mptfan
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by mptfan »

rbaron wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:11 amI find it amazing that a person can live their entire life, working, paying into SS and Medicare with out anyone asking questions. But when one wants to start collecting SS and go on Medicare, there is all kinds of problems.
I do not find it amazing...you do not have to be a U.S. citizen to work or pay into SS and Medicare.

Does she have a U.S. passport? Has she ever travelled outside of the U.S.? Depending on her situation, it would not surprise me that the issue of her citizenship has never come up before. It sounds like she is assuming she is a U.S. citizen, what is the basis of her claim? As pointed out by others, being born abroad on a U.S. base is not enough.
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rbaron
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by rbaron »

Of course it's ok!
We will all welcome her, about this issue or other related issues!
Have her sign up with a user ID of her choice.

It would help if she identifies herself as "your sister-in-law", and also if she answers all questions, so we can help.
Remind her that we have no idea who she is, other than, at this point, "rbaron's SIL" :happy
Also remind her not to put in any identifying information, such as where she lives or works/worked, etc. Although we can help her best if we have certain information, we do not need to be able to identify "who she really is", and we should not be able to do that, etc.

So, for example, which parent was the US citizen and were they married at the time of her birth, etc. - those are among the bits of information that could make a critical difference in helping her get the right information about how to proceed, etc.

RM


I gave her the info and it is up to her now to reach out to you guys.

But to answer the above question..... yes they were married. Her father was a US Air Force guy in Japan.

PS. How do you get the items in yellow above. I cut and paste then answer the question(s). It would help if I knew how to put the response of someone in a yellow box like some of you do above. Thanks....
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by fabdog »

PS. How do you get the items in yellow above. I cut and paste then answer the question(s). It would help if I knew how to put the response of someone in a yellow box like some of you do above. Thanks....
When you reply, a row of buttons will be above the text box. Select the " icon, and a set of two "quote"texts will appear. Paste your text between them, and it will appear as you noted

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ResearchMed
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by ResearchMed »

rbaron wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:42 am Of course it's ok!
We will all welcome her, about this issue or other related issues!
Have her sign up with a user ID of her choice.

It would help if she identifies herself as "your sister-in-law", and also if she answers all questions, so we can help.
Remind her that we have no idea who she is, other than, at this point, "rbaron's SIL" :happy
Also remind her not to put in any identifying information, such as where she lives or works/worked, etc. Although we can help her best if we have certain information, we do not need to be able to identify "who she really is", and we should not be able to do that, etc.

So, for example, which parent was the US citizen and were they married at the time of her birth, etc. - those are among the bits of information that could make a critical difference in helping her get the right information about how to proceed, etc.

RM


I gave her the info and it is up to her now to reach out to you guys.

But to answer the above question..... yes they were married. Her father was a US Air Force guy in Japan.

PS. How do you get the items in yellow above. I cut and paste then answer the question(s). It would help if I knew how to put the response of someone in a yellow box like some of you do above. Thanks....
When you click/open a post, in the upper right hand corner there are two icons: an "exclamation" mark, and "quotes" (double apostrophes).
Click on the "quotes", and that will open the entire post in a new window so that you can reply below it (or above it - but try not to post insider the quoted area unless you put YOUR text in some color, or it gets terribly confusing).

Good start: her parents were married. And Father *was* a US citizen at that time, or not?
If so, then the fact that she had a US citizen who was recognized as her father (being married to her mother when she was born) is probably more important than *where* she was born.

She should probably get something like a copy of her father's birth certificate, assuming HE was born in the USA (?). If not, then citizenship papers showing he became a citizen before she was born (?).
He would be listed on her birth certificate?

RM
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Topic Author
rbaron
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by rbaron »

ResearchMed wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:17 am
rbaron wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:42 am

Good start: her parents were married. And Father *was* a US citizen at that time, or not?
If so, then the fact that she had a US citizen who was recognized as her father (being married to her mother when she was born) is probably more important than *where* she was born.

She should probably get something like a copy of her father's birth certificate, assuming HE was born in the USA (?). If not, then citizenship papers showing he became a citizen before she was born (?).
He would be listed on her birth certificate?

RM


Yes, he was in the Air Force and was an American citizen at the time of my SIL's birth. Her mother was not. She was of Japanese descent. He, the father was born in the USA.
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rbaron
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by rbaron »

I just noticed I did not put my response outside the yellow..... I'll learn.
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ResearchMed
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by ResearchMed »

rbaron wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:59 am I just noticed I did not put my response outside the yellow..... I'll learn.
Actually, I think you may have deleted a quote or close-quote when you snipped. That will screw it up! :wink:

I tried to reply to you, and it forced me into the box, too.

Try to use Preview and see how it looks before submitting. If the format is messed up, then just copy your own portion, cancel it all, and then quote the first one again and paste in what you wrote.
It gets easier!
:happy

RM
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Beachey
Posts: 399
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by Beachey »

rbaron wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:12 am Yes, he was in the Air Force and was an American citizen at the time of my SIL's birth. Her mother was not. She was of Japanese descent. He, the father was born in the USA.
The fact that her father was a US citizen and her mother not might be a problem. The law on this changed over the years so her birth year might be relevant. And it also depends on whether they were married. Not that Wikipedia is the best source.
Children born overseas to unmarried parents
There is an asymmetry in the way citizenship status of children born overseas to unmarried parents, only one of whom is a U.S. citizen, is handled.

Title 8 U.S.C. § 1409 paragraph (c) provides that children born abroad after December 24, 1952, to unmarried American mothers are U.S. citizens, as long as the mother has lived in the U.S. for a continuous period of at least one year at any time prior to the birth.

8 U.S.C. § 1409 paragraph (a) provides that children born to American fathers unmarried to the children's non-American mothers are considered U.S. citizens only if the father meets the "physical presence" conditions described above, and the father takes several actions:

Unless deceased, has agreed to provide financial support while the child is under the age of 18 years
Establish paternity by clear and convincing evidence and, while the person is under the age of 18 years
the person is legitimated under the law of the person's residence or domicile,
the father acknowledges paternity of the person in writing under oath, or
the paternity of the person is established by adjudication of a competent court.
8 U.S.C. § 1409 paragraph (a) provides that acknowledgment of paternity can be shown by acknowledging paternity under oath and in writing; having the issue adjudicated by a court; or having the child otherwise "legitimated" by law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthrigh ... ed_parents.

A good website for immigration matters is visajourney.com. I might ask your question there.
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ResearchMed
Posts: 16795
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by ResearchMed »

Beachey wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:13 am
rbaron wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:12 am Yes, he was in the Air Force and was an American citizen at the time of my SIL's birth. Her mother was not. She was of Japanese descent. He, the father was born in the USA.
The fact that her father was a US citizen and her mother not might be a problem. The law on this changed over the years so her birth year might be relevant. And it also depends on whether they were married. Not that Wikipedia is the best source.
Children born overseas to unmarried parents
There is an asymmetry in the way citizenship status of children born overseas to unmarried parents, only one of whom is a U.S. citizen, is handled.

Title 8 U.S.C. § 1409 paragraph (c) provides that children born abroad after December 24, 1952, to unmarried American mothers are U.S. citizens, as long as the mother has lived in the U.S. for a continuous period of at least one year at any time prior to the birth.

8 U.S.C. § 1409 paragraph (a) provides that children born to American fathers unmarried to the children's non-American mothers are considered U.S. citizens only if the father meets the "physical presence" conditions described above, and the father takes several actions:

Unless deceased, has agreed to provide financial support while the child is under the age of 18 years
Establish paternity by clear and convincing evidence and, while the person is under the age of 18 years
the person is legitimated under the law of the person's residence or domicile,
the father acknowledges paternity of the person in writing under oath, or
the paternity of the person is established by adjudication of a competent court.
8 U.S.C. § 1409 paragraph (a) provides that acknowledgment of paternity can be shown by acknowledging paternity under oath and in writing; having the issue adjudicated by a court; or having the child otherwise "legitimated" by law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthrigh ... ed_parents.

A good website for immigration matters is visajourney.com. I might ask your question there.
They were married, which should make it a lot easier than if they weren't.
But I'm not familiar with the citizenship laws from some decades ago if they were different in this respect.

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InMyDreams
Posts: 1886
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:35 am

Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by InMyDreams »

I know a couple of people born overseas of US military parents
* seems like the birth would be registered not just with US authorities, but also with local authorities, so could have a birth certificate from both US and the foreign country (e.g., Germany, Japan - whatever country that the birth took place in)
* what about contacting your federal congressional delegate's office? They often take on the role of smoothing out problems between constituents and a federal agency.
pandersfishy
Posts: 12
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by pandersfishy »

I was born abroad in 1954. When applying for Medicare in 2019 I needed my birth certificate, which was in spanish...from another country.
I did not have a CRBA from my childhood, but I did have a US Passport. It would be amazing if your sister in law's birth was not registered properly as the child of a US citizen at an Army base. The evidence would be that she has a US passport.
I simply completed the request for a copy of my CRBA as outlined at the Department of State:https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... -CRBA.html
I had my request notarized, and received back a CRBA (my first), which I then took to the Social Security office, and all was good. The issue with Medicare/SS was not my citizenship, but a need for a birth certificate to prove my age.

Hope this helps.
orange96
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:25 am

Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by orange96 »

If your sister-in-law lives in the US, she should visit her local congressional office.
Topic Author
rbaron
Posts: 9
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by rbaron »

pandersfishy wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:15 am I was born abroad in 1954. When applying for Medicare in 2019 I needed my birth certificate, which was in spanish...from another country.
I did not have a CRBA from my childhood, but I did have a US Passport. It would be amazing if your sister in law's birth was not registered properly as the child of a US citizen at an Army base. The evidence would be that she has a US passport.
I simply completed the request for a copy of my CRBA as outlined at the Department of State:https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... -CRBA.html
I had my request notarized, and received back a CRBA (my first), which I then took to the Social Security office, and all was good. The issue with Medicare/SS was not my citizenship, but a need for a birth certificate to prove my age.

Hope this helps.
I have passed the above info to her. So I'll see what she does with the above information. So I thanks you for the help and all of you that are trying to help.
Topic Author
rbaron
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:52 pm

Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by rbaron »

Thanks to all that have tried to help my sister-in-law with her problem.

The good news is that she finally got approved for her Medicare. The way that she did it was...... her husband was rummaging around in some old boxes she had in the basement and found her baby passport she used when she came from Japan when her Father and Mother came back to the US.

She presented that to whoever and just like that, all was good.

So, thanks again and the moral of this story is.... "Don't throw anything out, ever. You don't know when you might need it again."
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ResearchMed
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by ResearchMed »

rbaron wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 8:33 am Thanks to all that have tried to help my sister-in-law with her problem.

The good news is that she finally got approved for her Medicare. The way that she did it was...... her husband was rummaging around in some old boxes she had in the basement and found her baby passport she used when she came from Japan when her Father and Mother came back to the US.

She presented that to whoever and just like that, all was good.

So, thanks again and the moral of this story is.... "Don't throw anything out, ever. You don't know when you might need it again."
Great news! Thanks for updating us.

And about the "never, ever throw *anything* away"... UGH!
We are facing downsizing in the vaguely near future, and... there is so much *stuff*, including boxes and file cabinets of papers. At least out-grown clothing is easily identifiable. :wink:

They must have been thrilled when they found that.
And a baby passport seems pretty special even without these circumstances! :happy

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TropikThunder
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Re: US Citizen Born Abroad

Post by TropikThunder »

pandersfishy wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:15 am I simply completed the request for a copy of my CRBA as outlined at the Department of State:https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... -CRBA.html
Similar for me (born to married US citizens in Europe) but my parents weren’t military. Over the years I’ve needed to get a new copy from the State Department two or three times and it hasn’t been instant but it has been simple.
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