Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
My father-in-law passed away a couple of months ago.
My wife is the youngest of 4 siblings. The older 3 are from a different marriage. Prior to this event, there was little contact between her and the others. Not on speaking terms. All of the siblings are in different states.
Wife has a copy of will, which states all investment accounts/money from house sale to be split evenly 4 ways. All of the belongings were left to my wife
Executor of the estate is one of the siblings. When FIL passed, a discussion resulted in argument between my wife and the executor sibling. Since then, radio silence.
How do we make sure we follow FIL wishes as the will outlines?
My wife is the youngest of 4 siblings. The older 3 are from a different marriage. Prior to this event, there was little contact between her and the others. Not on speaking terms. All of the siblings are in different states.
Wife has a copy of will, which states all investment accounts/money from house sale to be split evenly 4 ways. All of the belongings were left to my wife
Executor of the estate is one of the siblings. When FIL passed, a discussion resulted in argument between my wife and the executor sibling. Since then, radio silence.
How do we make sure we follow FIL wishes as the will outlines?
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
The executor has certain legal responsibilities and if they are not living up to them they can be removed. It can take many months for an estate to be settled, so no need to panic yet. Sounds like the family is already broken so siccing an estate lawyer on them would be the way to go. A lawyer letter demanding an accounting might be the first step. Do you know whether the house has been sold, where the contents are now?
https://zimmerlawfirm.com/blog/probate/ ... -supposed/
https://zimmerlawfirm.com/blog/probate/ ... -supposed/
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Topic moved to Personal Finance.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Your question is how to make sure. The only way to make sure is to know all property in the estate, and when dispersed, it follows the will. Since communication has apparently broken down, if the estate is sizable, it may be worth it to get an attorney to review and send a letter to the executor, and go from there. With that letter, it may keep the executor on their toes. Keep in mind, it doesn't take long to get in the 10s of thousands of dollars if it gets ugly to the point of a complaint.
Last edited by Kagord on Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
We don't know if the property has been sold. Checked Zillow and does not show it as being listed/sold recentlymhalley wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:15 pm The executor has certain legal responsibilities and if they are not living up to them they can be removed. It can take many months for an estate to be settled, so no need to panic yet. Sounds like the family is already broken so siccing a lawyer on them would be the way to go. A lawyer letter demanding an accounting might be the first step. Do you know whether the house has been sold, where the contents are now?
https://zimmerlawfirm.com/blog/probate/ ... -supposed/
Belongings are in a storage unit and the condo only as far as we know. This is in a different state than us by the way.
I am not familiar with the process - but I am guessing there will be a probate in this case as the probate will allow the property to be re-titled and sold?
Majority of the money accounts are at Fidelity. I believe they will also require a copy of the will before they distribute assets?
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Fidelity is not going to be looking at any wills. If there's a beneficiary or Transfer on Death designation, great. If not, it's going through probate. They are certainly not going to read a will and send checks out to the individuals.
https://www.fidelity.com/life-events/es ... /brokerage
https://www.fidelity.com/life-events/es ... /brokerage
Last edited by Tom_T on Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
We know the property and approx monies in the estate. At a high level, we are talking maybe $75K a piece after all is settled.Kagord wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:23 pm Your question is how to make sure. The only way to make sure is to know all property in the estate, and when dispersed, it follows the will. Since communication has apparently broken down, if the estate is sizable, it may be worth it to get an attorney to review and send a letter to the executor, and go from there. With that letter, it may keep the executor on their toes. Keep in mind, it doesn't take long to get in the 10s of thousands of dollars if it gets ugly to the point of a complaint.
While the money will be welcome, my wife is more focused on the belongings/memorabilia. Can she legally just have the belongings shipped from the storage unit?
Can the siblings keep her out and take everything?
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Good to know. I believe the account/accounts have all of the siblings listed. However, it may be under my wife's maiden name...Tom_T wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:38 pm Fidelity is not going to be looking at any wills. If there's a beneficiary or Transfer on Death designation, great. If not, it's going through probate. They are certainly not going to read a will and send checks out to the individuals.
https://www.fidelity.com/life-events/es ... /brokerage
I am guessing if we call Fidelity, they will not release this information?
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Get a lawyer!! The old joke is, who gets to the house first after the funeral gets the stuff. Best of luck, and sorry for your loss.
Facts are stubborn things. Everything works until it doesn’t.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
ha thank youretiredflyboy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:46 pm Get a lawyer!! The old joke is, who gets to the house first after the funeral gets the stuff. Best of luck, and sorry for your loss.
now the lawyer should be based out of where the property is located?
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
I think a local attorney would be better versed in the state law and local workings.
Facts are stubborn things. Everything works until it doesn’t.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Sorry for your loss.
Do you mean you want to know what you should do? Or how to force the executor to do what you feel they should do?Executor of the estate is one of the siblings. When FIL passed, a discussion resulted in argument between my wife and the executor sibling. Since then, radio silence.
How do we make sure we follow FIL wishes as the will outlines?
You can just wait to see what happens. Or you can get your lawyer involved.
This isn't just my wallet. It's an organizer, a memory and an old friend.
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
The executor may need reminded that they have a legal fiduciary responsibility and are bound by law to properly execute the will. They can be held liable personally in some cases for failing to Cary out this important role.
Facts are stubborn things. Everything works until it doesn’t.
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
From what I am gathering, it seems reasonable to have an attorney make clear your expectations that the will be followed.
Facts are stubborn things. Everything works until it doesn’t.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Not until after probate is completed.Gemini wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:39 pm We know the property and approx monies in the estate. At a high level, we are talking maybe $75K a piece after all is settled.
While the money will be welcome, my wife is more focused on the belongings/memorabilia. Can she legally just have the belongings shipped from the storage unit?
If the siblings have physical access and your wife does not, there's sadly little to stop this from happening.Can the siblings keep her out and take everything?
Your lawyer could demand that the executor take an accounting of the belongings now, in hope of preventing this from happening.
Your wife gets to decide how important this is, and how much she wants to spend on preventative measures. The best defense would be a good relationship with the siblings, but it sounds like that boat has sailed.
This isn't just my wallet. It's an organizer, a memory and an old friend.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
According to Fidelity's beneficiary designation paperwork, each beneficiary listed is supposed to contact them (separately), have or open an account, and provide a death certificate. So I'd think that they should be willing to talk to her if they know that she is actually listed as a beneficiary.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
This thread has run its course and is locked (legal issue - enforcement of will). See: Acceptable Topics and Subforum Guidelines
Update: See below.This is an investing and personal finance forum. We also maintain a subforum that allow our members to discuss consumer goods and services and recreational activities. Anything else is considered "Off Topic" and is not acceptable on this forum.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Upon further review, this is a legal issue regarding a will. See: Personal Finance
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Legally, no.
Practically, most likely yes, unless there exists a complete inventory attached to the will of everything in the storage container.
There are usually ways to file with the probate court that you are interested in the case and have a stake in its resolution. You can receive a full accounting that is signed under penalty of perjury. You can then send notice of these things to the executor/executrix, basically as a way of saying you are following closely what's going on. That sort of "shot across the bow" may be enough to perturb any malfeasance.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
If you have a copy of the Death Certificate and the decedent's social security number, AND you believe that you are listed as a beneficiary or Transfer on Death, you can contact any of the institutions, such as Fidelity, and provide them with the Death cert. Ask for the "inheritance department" or some such. This completely bypasses and is irrelevant to any will. Those assets can and will be distributed quite quickly. (and yes, this is redundant with advice above, but works).
Salvia Clevelandii "Winifred Gilman" my favorite. YMMV; not a professional advisor.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
When you're not named or are the executor, this becomes a purely legal question. Enforcement of the will runs through the courts.
You can of course ask nicely, but if refused, your recourse is the court system.
You can of course ask nicely, but if refused, your recourse is the court system.
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Most counties have an online database for the registry of deeds. You can search names to see if any paperwork has been filed there.Gemini wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:28 pmWe don't know if the property has been sold. Checked Zillow and does not show it as being listed/sold recentlymhalley wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:15 pm The executor has certain legal responsibilities and if they are not living up to them they can be removed. It can take many months for an estate to be settled, so no need to panic yet. Sounds like the family is already broken so siccing a lawyer on them would be the way to go. A lawyer letter demanding an accounting might be the first step. Do you know whether the house has been sold, where the contents are now?
https://zimmerlawfirm.com/blog/probate/ ... -supposed/
Belongings are in a storage unit and the condo only as far as we know. This is in a different state than us by the way.
I am not familiar with the process - but I am guessing there will be a probate in this case as the probate will allow the property to be re-titled and sold?
Majority of the money accounts are at Fidelity. I believe they will also require a copy of the will before they distribute assets?
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
I've been involved in a few family estates. No matter how good the family relations are, it's a tense time. Especially when the relatives are running around the house picking up the most valuable stuff and putting in "their pile" and then one relative arrives with a U-Haul.
A few options in order of increasing cost:
1. The executor has likely hired a lawyer. Find out who it is and write him/her a letter (sent by overnight courier and email) expressing your concerns--that is, you expect to receive what was left to you in the will, not $1 or one item less. Also tell them that you will be requiring an accounting from the executor.
2. Hire a lawyer where you are to write the letter in 1.
3. Hire a lawyer in the city/county where the estate will be settled and take their advice. The benefit here is that the lawyer will know the local practices/law and will likely know the executor's lawyer (assuming not in a large city).
If the amounts are relatively small my best advice to you is to, first and foremost, decide you don't care and roll with what happens. The last thing you want to to be is angry for months (or years) over a relatively small amount. Even if the amounts are large, don't get upset over the details. If one of the siblings takes the Mauviel copper pans, let it go--try to find some humor in it.
A few options in order of increasing cost:
1. The executor has likely hired a lawyer. Find out who it is and write him/her a letter (sent by overnight courier and email) expressing your concerns--that is, you expect to receive what was left to you in the will, not $1 or one item less. Also tell them that you will be requiring an accounting from the executor.
2. Hire a lawyer where you are to write the letter in 1.
3. Hire a lawyer in the city/county where the estate will be settled and take their advice. The benefit here is that the lawyer will know the local practices/law and will likely know the executor's lawyer (assuming not in a large city).
If the amounts are relatively small my best advice to you is to, first and foremost, decide you don't care and roll with what happens. The last thing you want to to be is angry for months (or years) over a relatively small amount. Even if the amounts are large, don't get upset over the details. If one of the siblings takes the Mauviel copper pans, let it go--try to find some humor in it.
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
If you believe your wife is listed as a beneficiary on the Fidelity account, you should contact Fidelity directly. If someone else has already supplied Fidelity with a death certificate, they’re probably just waiting for your wife to contact them. If nobody has done that yet, you may need to get a copy of the death certificate and supply it to them. As his daughter, you should be able to get a copy of the death certificate from the state where he died.
If the Fidelity account is the only thing of real value and that’s handled outside of probate, it probably isn’t worth it to have a lawyer do anything. If you’re expecting some assets to come through probate, it might be worth a quick consult with an estate attorney in that state. A letter on an attorney’s letterhead reminding the executor of her fiduciary duty to the heirs might light a fire under her to be more communicative.
Unfortunately, unless dad specified that you were supposed to get some specific keepsake, and none of the personal property is especially valuable, it’s really up to the executor how to distribute or dispose of that stuff.
If the Fidelity account is the only thing of real value and that’s handled outside of probate, it probably isn’t worth it to have a lawyer do anything. If you’re expecting some assets to come through probate, it might be worth a quick consult with an estate attorney in that state. A letter on an attorney’s letterhead reminding the executor of her fiduciary duty to the heirs might light a fire under her to be more communicative.
Unfortunately, unless dad specified that you were supposed to get some specific keepsake, and none of the personal property is especially valuable, it’s really up to the executor how to distribute or dispose of that stuff.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Really? Even tho the OP said "All of the belongings were left to my wife"? I agree that if not valuable, the OP shouldn't care, but most people have some things of value.quantAndHold wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:22 pm Unfortunately, unless dad specified that you were supposed to get some specific keepsake, and none of the personal property is especially valuable, it’s really up to the executor how to distribute or dispose of that stuff.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Let everybody win. Just contact the executor for the keys to the condo and storage unit. Tell the executor you will be there in (whatever) days to clean out the condo and the storage units and leave them "sweep clean". The executor shouldn't have to bother with the belongings if their destiny is clear. "Belonging" include the desirable and undesirable, to me it suggests that she is the designated cleaner. If you take it from that perspective there should be no dispute. You and wife pay for transport/disposal of goods.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Maybe she already has the keys? All the older people in my family, including me, have given keys to their sibs, etc.123 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:49 pmLet everybody win. Just contact the executor for the keys to the condo and storage unit. Tell the executor you will be there in (whatever) days to clean out the condo and the storage units and leave them "sweep clean". The executor shouldn't have to bother with the belongings if their destiny is clear. "Belonging" include the desirable and undesirable, to me it suggests that she is the designated cleaner. If you take it from that perspective there should be no dispute. You and wife pay for transport/disposal of goods.
I am not sure she can legally swoop in there and take the stuff. I didn't disburse anything from my mother's will until I was sure there was enough set aside to pay all bills.
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
You missed the part where I said "unless dad specified". We're in agreement here.cowdogman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:26 pmReally? Even tho the OP said "All of the belongings were left to my wife"? I agree that if not valuable, the OP shouldn't care, but most people have some things of value.quantAndHold wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:22 pm Unfortunately, unless dad specified that you were supposed to get some specific keepsake, and none of the personal property is especially valuable, it’s really up to the executor how to distribute or dispose of that stuff.
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
curious, if your FIL wanted all possessions to go to your wife and the house proceeds split evenly, why wasn't your wife named as executer?
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Stuff gets weird in families sometimes. Same thing happened to my wife when her mom died. My wife's brother had been handling mom's finances, so was made executor. Mom thought bro's wife was going to use all of mom's antiques to jumpstart an antiques store, so she gave all the personal possessions to my wife. 15 years later, that sounds completely ridiculous, but that's really what she thought.theplayer11 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:03 pm curious, if your FIL wanted all possessions to go to your wife and the house proceeds split evenly, why wasn't your wife named as executer?
The whole thing drove a wedge between my wife and her brother for a decade. My wife still hasn't talked to her sister-in-law since the funeral.
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Settling an estate is difficult and time consuming. It can easily take a year as bills keep rolling in and taxes are paid. It also varies from state to state. But here are a few thoughts: Does the state require that the will be filed with the court? Odds are the state requires that an inventory (accounting) be filed and that the heirs get a copy of it. If it does, has this been done? Have the fees been paid? Is there a bond? These should be available from the court where the estate is being settled. Does the executor live in the state where the estate is being probated if this is a legal requirement in the state? Not complying with these and all the requirements could result in the executor being removed upon petition.
The court's oversight procedure (might be available online) to answer some questions. Unfortunately, not being there adds a layer of difficulty regarding what items were at the home at the time of death. It might be worthwhile to dish out the money for an attorney - in the state where the will is being probated. In some states, an attorney can see online what has been done, filed and what fees paid.
As a final note, it's essential that street addresses be used and are accurate in the executor's records. That way they can't play games by mailing documents to the wrong address.
The court's oversight procedure (might be available online) to answer some questions. Unfortunately, not being there adds a layer of difficulty regarding what items were at the home at the time of death. It might be worthwhile to dish out the money for an attorney - in the state where the will is being probated. In some states, an attorney can see online what has been done, filed and what fees paid.
As a final note, it's essential that street addresses be used and are accurate in the executor's records. That way they can't play games by mailing documents to the wrong address.
"History is the memory of time, the life of the dead and the happiness of the living." Captain John Smith 1580-1631
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Just to back up a bit.
"Executor of the estate is one of the siblings."
Has the person named in the will formally opened probate at the courthouse? They aren't the executor until the probate office says they are and gives them formal papers.
"Executor of the estate is one of the siblings."
Has the person named in the will formally opened probate at the courthouse? They aren't the executor until the probate office says they are and gives them formal papers.
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
You need professional oversight to enforce transparency and accountability.Gemini wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:01 pm My father-in-law passed away a couple of months ago.
My wife is the youngest of 4 siblings. The older 3 are from a different marriage. Prior to this event, there was little contact between her and the others. Not on speaking terms. All of the siblings are in different states.
Wife has a copy of will, which states all investment accounts/money from house sale to be split evenly 4 ways. All of the belongings were left to my wife
Executor of the estate is one of the siblings. When FIL passed, a discussion resulted in argument between my wife and the executor sibling. Since then, radio silence.
How do we make sure we follow FIL wishes as the will outlines?
Assume that the executor has already engaged legal counsel to their benefit.
It can be very surprising what an executor can "accomplish" without fellow beneficiaries knowing. Or, someone with legal POA.
Seek legal counsel ASAP.
This doesn't mean the dreaded "estate litigation" or lawsuits against relatives which often prevents people from seeking professional advice.
Conforming to the terms of a will or trust is not an automatic given with automatic enforcement.
Silence doesn't mean that nothing is happening.
So. . .don't assume anything.
Seek legal counsel for a consult.
Bring your copy of the will and all documents.
Record everything from now on. Conversation recaps in hard copy, emails, texts, etc.
Seek legal counsel for advice.
**Doesn't hurt to ask. . .
j
dislaimer: zillions of options and opinonions on these matters. Thus. . .seek professional advice.
Last edited by Sandtrap on Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Isn't this premature? The original poster said that the decedent only died a couple of months ago.
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
I agree that it hasn't been that long to expect any money. The thing I would be most worried about, if they are of significant monetary or sentimental value, is the personal effects. The accounts and sale of the condo can all be accounted for via historical statements and the HUD for the condo sale. Probate can take a significant amount of time, and I expect even longer due to Covid.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Unless dad happens to own a Picasso, siblings fighting over dad's old workboots or easy chair simply makes no sense. It's just STUFF.
Moreover, cleaning out an estate is tons of work and a thankless job. Unless there is some special momento (e.g., a photograph album or dad's favorite carving knife) you absolutely must have, I would instruct the executor to sell everything and divide the proceeds. It's just not worth arguing about. It is unfortunate that destructive family arguments occur at times like this.
Update: When I say cleaning out an estate is tons of work and a thankless job, I mean it. I've settled three relatively small family estates and I can't even begin to tell you what a royal pain in the butt it was. Cleaning out a property is brutal. It's not just selecting a nice plate or framed photo to take home. It means cleaning out all the junk as well. Junk that no one wants. My wife's uncle apparently decided that burying junk in the back yard was a good idea, even though he literally lived within a half mile of the town dump. And what do you do with frozen venison that's been stored in a basement freezer for god-knows how long. My neighbor had old, worn rag rugs rotting in a damp basement. It's amazing what junk people will hang onto for decades. As executor you have to hire a lawyer, file all the necessary paperwork, keep track of all sorts of things, pay bills, and a whole host of other thankless jobs. And all the while, other relatives sit back and do nothing but complain. Perhaps they should offer to pitch in.
Moreover, cleaning out an estate is tons of work and a thankless job. Unless there is some special momento (e.g., a photograph album or dad's favorite carving knife) you absolutely must have, I would instruct the executor to sell everything and divide the proceeds. It's just not worth arguing about. It is unfortunate that destructive family arguments occur at times like this.
Update: When I say cleaning out an estate is tons of work and a thankless job, I mean it. I've settled three relatively small family estates and I can't even begin to tell you what a royal pain in the butt it was. Cleaning out a property is brutal. It's not just selecting a nice plate or framed photo to take home. It means cleaning out all the junk as well. Junk that no one wants. My wife's uncle apparently decided that burying junk in the back yard was a good idea, even though he literally lived within a half mile of the town dump. And what do you do with frozen venison that's been stored in a basement freezer for god-knows how long. My neighbor had old, worn rag rugs rotting in a damp basement. It's amazing what junk people will hang onto for decades. As executor you have to hire a lawyer, file all the necessary paperwork, keep track of all sorts of things, pay bills, and a whole host of other thankless jobs. And all the while, other relatives sit back and do nothing but complain. Perhaps they should offer to pitch in.
The difficulty with jazz is there are too many notes. (Borrowed from Emperor's critique in Amadeus)
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
I invite the estate lawyers to chime in, but I suspect there is a rule of thumb: The smaller the estate, the greater the family drama.
The difficulty with jazz is there are too many notes. (Borrowed from Emperor's critique in Amadeus)
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
There's plenty of drama in large (even huge) estates. Google for celebrities who died without a will...
If you don't plan well and communicate well before passing, you are simply inviting drama.
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
My grandfather's estate was high 7-figures to low 8-figures; fighting over it pretty much destroyed a once super close family (7 kids).
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
What was the initial argument about?Gemini wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:01 pm My father-in-law passed away a couple of months ago.
My wife is the youngest of 4 siblings. The older 3 are from a different marriage. Prior to this event, there was little contact between her and the others. Not on speaking terms. All of the siblings are in different states.
Wife has a copy of will, which states all investment accounts/money from house sale to be split evenly 4 ways. All of the belongings were left to my wife
Executor of the estate is one of the siblings. When FIL passed, a discussion resulted in argument between my wife and the executor sibling. Since then, radio silence.
How do we make sure we follow FIL wishes as the will outlines?
Has the will been submitted for probate? Isn't that a matter of public record?
BarbBrooklyn |
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Unless it's relevant to a legal aspect of the Will, let's keep the family drama out of the discussion. Disagreements on "who gets what" go nowhere and will derail the thread in no-time flat. (It's why we lock threads on relationship issues.)
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
I'll take the complaining over my brother's "help". His idea of "helping" was "helping himself" to anything of value and everything he felt he deserved. And oh by the way where's my money...'cause I need it unlike you.JazzTime wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:17 am Unless dad happens to own a Picasso, siblings fighting over dad's old workboots or easy chair simply makes no sense. It's just STUFF.
Moreover, cleaning out an estate is tons of work and a thankless job. Unless there is some special momento (e.g., a photograph album or dad's favorite carving knife) you absolutely must have, I would instruct the executor to sell everything and divide the proceeds. It's just not worth arguing about. It is unfortunate that destructive family arguments occur at times like this.
Update: When I say cleaning out an estate is tons of work and a thankless job, I mean it. I've settled three relatively small family estates and I can't even begin to tell you what a royal pain in the butt it was. Cleaning out a property is brutal. It's not just selecting a nice plate or framed photo to take home. It means cleaning out all the junk as well. Junk that no one wants. My wife's uncle apparently decided that burying junk in the back yard was a good idea, even though he literally lived within a half mile of the town dump. And what do you do with frozen venison that's been stored in a basement freezer for god-knows how long. My neighbor had old, worn rag rugs rotting in a damp basement. It's amazing what junk people will hang onto for decades. As executor you have to hire a lawyer, file all the necessary paperwork, keep track of all sorts of things, pay bills, and a whole host of other thankless jobs. And all the while, other relatives sit back and do nothing but complain. Perhaps they should offer to pitch in.
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Not a joke - I've seen it happen!!!!retiredflyboy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:46 pm Get a lawyer!! The old joke is, who gets to the house first after the funeral gets the stuff. Best of luck, and sorry for your loss.
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
This. ↑↑↑ I had to clean out the homes of 2 elderly relatives recently. Even though I was the sole heir to both estates and had none of the drama that comes with multiple heirs, the "stuff" was a pain to get rid of. The cost in time and $$ was significant.JazzTime wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:17 am Unless dad happens to own a Picasso, siblings fighting over dad's old workboots or easy chair simply makes no sense. It's just STUFF.
Moreover, cleaning out an estate is tons of work and a thankless job. Unless there is some special momento (e.g., a photograph album or dad's favorite carving knife) you absolutely must have, I would instruct the executor to sell everything and divide the proceeds. It's just not worth arguing about. It is unfortunate that destructive family arguments occur at times like this.
Update: When I say cleaning out an estate is tons of work and a thankless job, I mean it. I've settled three relatively small family estates and I can't even begin to tell you what a royal pain in the butt it was. Cleaning out a property is brutal. It's not just selecting a nice plate or framed photo to take home. It means cleaning out all the junk as well. Junk that no one wants. My wife's uncle apparently decided that burying junk in the back yard was a good idea, even though he literally lived within a half mile of the town dump. And what do you do with frozen venison that's been stored in a basement freezer for god-knows how long. My neighbor had old, worn rag rugs rotting in a damp basement. It's amazing what junk people will hang onto for decades. As executor you have to hire a lawyer, file all the necessary paperwork, keep track of all sorts of things, pay bills, and a whole host of other thankless jobs. And all the while, other relatives sit back and do nothing but complain. Perhaps they should offer to pitch in.
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
I think the first step is to find out if probate has been opened. In most states, this is a matter of public record.
Proceed from there.
Proceed from there.
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Boy, did that hit close to home!cowdogman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:13 pm I've been involved in a few family estates. No matter how good the family relations are, it's a tense time. Especially when the relatives are running around the house picking up the most valuable stuff and putting in "their pile" and then one relative arrives with a U-Haul.
I'll also chime in to emphasize/reiterate that if the brokerage accounts have beneficiaries listed, then the will and the executor have exactly nothing to do with distributing the money.
OP's wife should definitely contact Fidelity directly. May not even need a death certificate if one of the other siblings has provided it. They don't need 4 copies of the death certificate, they just need to identify the 4 (or 3, or 2, or 7) beneficiaries listed. And you don't really know how those account beneficiaries were listed, everyone may be surprised.
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
1. As someone else has alluded to, there is a possibility that the brokerage account is not an estate asset if there is a beneficiary designation/transfer on death form on file with the brokerage. An attorney will be able to help obtain documents to review this.
2. This leads to the bigger point -- there are probate assets and non-probate assets. Some assets pass by contract (e.g., beneficiary designations in bank accounts, investment accounts, etc.), and others do not. You need an attorney to help you with this.
3. Here in Ohio, creditors must make a demand against the estate within six months from the date of death. Thus, most probate attorneys will not open an estate until six months and one day after the date of death. This way, if any creditor failed to make a claim, their claim is barred. In this regard it is smart (and not malfeasance) to wait to open an estate. Again, get an attorney to review this issue.
4. Lastly, when this type of file eventually comes to me, I am always blown away by how much everyone is just assuming the worst from everyone. That lingers for months and months and eventually boils. I think you should get a lawyer to help you communicate with the other beneficiaries and put them on notice.
If you have not been able to tell by now I think your wife needs a lawyer.
2. This leads to the bigger point -- there are probate assets and non-probate assets. Some assets pass by contract (e.g., beneficiary designations in bank accounts, investment accounts, etc.), and others do not. You need an attorney to help you with this.
3. Here in Ohio, creditors must make a demand against the estate within six months from the date of death. Thus, most probate attorneys will not open an estate until six months and one day after the date of death. This way, if any creditor failed to make a claim, their claim is barred. In this regard it is smart (and not malfeasance) to wait to open an estate. Again, get an attorney to review this issue.
4. Lastly, when this type of file eventually comes to me, I am always blown away by how much everyone is just assuming the worst from everyone. That lingers for months and months and eventually boils. I think you should get a lawyer to help you communicate with the other beneficiaries and put them on notice.
If you have not been able to tell by now I think your wife needs a lawyer.
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
The investment accounts will most likely be linked to beneficiaries. These TOD arrangements will override anything the will says. If the listed beneficiary is one of the other siblings or even several but not your wife there is no recourse. If the beneficiary statement at Fidelity says sibling 1 gets 50% and sibling 4 gets 10% it is what it is. Now yes beneficiaries don't have to be named but a suggestion to do so would have been front and center any time your FIL logged in.Gemini wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:01 pm ....Wife has a copy of will, which states all investment accounts/money from house sale to be split evenly 4 ways. All of the belongings were left to my wife
Executor of the estate is one of the siblings. When FIL passed, a discussion resulted in argument between my wife and the executor sibling. Since then, radio silence.
How do we make sure we follow FIL wishes as the will outlines?
So the will only applies to accounts and things that do not have Transfer on Death arrangements. Maybe a local checking account for example although they often have TODs too. If they are not committed by a TOD then they go into the will pool - does that mean if the account has $4000 your wife gets $1000? No The Executor is entitled to get paid for their time and if they hire a lawyer then the lawyer gets paid as well as the court system's filing fees. This means money does not get distributed until quite late in the process and any time you hire a lawyer you will be out what you directly pay them as well as what it costs the executor and the probate lawyer's time to respond. If your wife can write a letter requesting an update that's a much nicer way to go about it. You can always hire a lawyer later if you get no response.
With the house in the estate then costs to keep it in good shape also comes from the estate money. This could include heating so pipes don't freeze, electricity for showing it etc. Yes, hopefully that will be recouped in the sale but until then the available money to do all that is the estate money.
Some questions:
Why are the belongings in question already in a storage unit?
Was/Is there someone living in the house?
What was the argument over when FIL first died?
With the other information that your wife was already singled out to get All the antiques from Mom and All the belongings from Father I can imagine the other siblings think the "problem" is on the other foot.
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Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Often heard from professionals: from dentists to plumbers to attorneys;
“I wish you would have come to me sooner”
The layperson’s point of view and unfamiliarity with each field is vastly different than a professional so no assumptions should exist when it come to error on the side of caution.
Thus. Seeking legal counsel does not automatically mean lawsuits and litigation but simply being informed and learning one’s options as a layperson.
OP
Seek legal counsel for your will matters.
J
“I wish you would have come to me sooner”
The layperson’s point of view and unfamiliarity with each field is vastly different than a professional so no assumptions should exist when it come to error on the side of caution.
Thus. Seeking legal counsel does not automatically mean lawsuits and litigation but simply being informed and learning one’s options as a layperson.
OP
Seek legal counsel for your will matters.
J
Re: Inheritance drama - enforcing the will
Most people don't realize the amount of time you have to spend administering an estate. Luckily my wife and I are retired so we have few obligations. But making multiple 20 mile drives (each way) to her aunt's house got old real fast. And hunting down people who could assist with the cleanout was no picnic.The 19th hole wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:55 am I had to clean out the homes of 2 elderly relatives recently. Even though I was the sole heir to both estates and had none of the drama that comes with multiple heirs, the "stuff" was a pain to get rid of. The cost in time and $$ was significant.
I was blown away when we handled her mother's estate and the paralegal instructed us to hunt down long lost relatives who might have a claim, even though the will clearly left everything to her two daughters. How the hell are we supposed to find out if her brother, who died over 30 years ago and had no contact with the family for longer than that, had any children? You gotta be kidding!
To sell a house, you don't just plop down a for sale sign. You have to get official permission from the probate court. Then someone has to make sure the proper smoke detectors are installed and get the official OK from the fire dept.
You have to hunt down all the assets, which may be located hither and yon, then send copies of death certificates and your administration papers to every place that has those assets just to get them to talk to you.
Sure, lots of steps individually may be small, but they all add up to lots and lots of time.
Perhaps, instead of sending a lawyer letter that might just inflame things, you might want to give the Executor/Administrator a break and tell them how much you appreciate what they are doing. More than likely, they have no prior experience doing this sort of thing.
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