50K Deck - Do or Don't

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Topic Author
Bogglebendi
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:16 am

50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Bogglebendi »

Struggling a bit to decide on if I should build on a new deck on my home. I have received a few different quotes, and the cost would be between 41-54K. I have been ready to pull the trigger a couple of times, but I keep hitting a wall with the opportunity cost. There is always a long list of things that I could put that money into instead. I have never made such a large purchase on a "luxury" item, and generally do not find those types of purchases comfortable. I am usually a very decisive person, but with this purchase, I have been waffling back and forth.

About the deck: Looking to put on about a 40 ft x 10ft deck on the back of the home. Walkout basement, puts the deck as a 2nd story deck. Currently we have a small deck on the yard level, and rarely use it because it is a level down from the kitchen. Our hope is to create a space that we would be able to use as an additional outside space year round. I imagine we would utilize it near daily. I have 4 children (3-9yo), and want to create that space to use while they are young and still forced to be home all the time! Often, I see people make decisions to improve their homes later in life, but they miss out on utilizing the benefit with their kids.

My focus mostly has been on real-estate, so I feel a little behind on investment accounts. Should I be dumping all this money into investments? Am I too young to divert money into luxury items?

About our financial situation:
Age 38yo
Current gross - 170K (+20-30K annual bonus). Wife does not work.
Personal residence paid off. (Valued = 710K)
Roth His: 59K
Roth Hers: 14K
401K: 321K
Cash: 122K
4 additional rental properties: - Equity in rentals = 533K

Should I be further along with investment accounts? Would a 50K deck purchase be imprudent?

I am a constant lurker here. Appreciate all of the sage advice. Thank you all.
Notsobad
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:16 am

Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Notsobad »

Seems reasonable for a house of this value. The people I know with a deck like this use it all the time.

With small kids make sure it is safe.
Shael_AT
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:36 pm

Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Shael_AT »

Given your current net worth, owning the home outright, and having a high and stable income, it would be fair to say that building a new deck at this price point is feasible and doable. We are in a similar situation; our sage wisdom " " has been to ensure that no large project or purchase will cause our net-worth to be lower at the 1st of the year than the 365th final day of the year. The second rule is always to maintain a 3-6 month cash or equivalent emergency fund.

January 1st, Net worth (example) 1million
During the year; Projects, Purchases, budgets, Savings, Investments, etc.
December 31st, Net worth (example) = or > that 1 million

Even if the project was a $50,000 deck.

Hope that provides some insight and an example.
Topic Author
Bogglebendi
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:16 am

Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Bogglebendi »

Shael_AT wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:00 pm Given your current net worth, owning the home outright, and having a high and stable income, it would be fair to say that building a new deck at this price point is feasible and doable. We are in a similar situation; our sage wisdom " " has been to ensure that no large project or purchase will cause our net-worth to be lower at the 1st of the year than the 365th final day of the year. The second rule is always to maintain a 3-6 month cash or equivalent emergency fund.

January 1st, Net worth (example) 1million
During the year; Projects, Purchases, budgets, Savings, Investments, etc.
December 31st, Net worth (example) = or > that 1 million

Even if the project was a $50,000 deck.

Hope that provides some insight and an example.

Thank you. So you are ok to have a net-zero year as it relates to your net worth? Do you accomplish this by calculating investment appreciation projection, or make sure to save up the additional cost needed for the purchase during the year before the purchase is made?
DarkHelmetII
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by DarkHelmetII »

My 2 cents: strictly from a financial perspective this will probably make you less wealthy than investing the $50k. Having said that, seems you will receive some immediate enjoyment & utility out of it via yourself, your spouse, and several young kids will be (and are) growing up very quickly. And so while seems like a reasonable trade-off to purchase something that will add immediate tangible value to your family's quality of life.
quietseas
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by quietseas »

This something your family will enjoy, not an investment. This deck won't have a single positive financial metric when maintenance costs are taken into account.

If you do it get it done right. I'd strongly consider composite decking such as TimberTech or Trex (one may be better than others for your home's micro climate). Deal with any drainage issues in the yard at the same time.
chipperd
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Location: here and now

Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by chipperd »

Bogglebendi wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:06 pm
Shael_AT wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:00 pm Given your current net worth, owning the home outright, and having a high and stable income, it would be fair to say that building a new deck at this price point is feasible and doable. We are in a similar situation; our sage wisdom " " has been to ensure that no large project or purchase will cause our net-worth to be lower at the 1st of the year than the 365th final day of the year. The second rule is always to maintain a 3-6 month cash or equivalent emergency fund.

January 1st, Net worth (example) 1million
During the year; Projects, Purchases, budgets, Savings, Investments, etc.
December 31st, Net worth (example) = or > that 1 million

Even if the project was a $50,000 deck.

Hope that provides some insight and an example.

Thank you. So you are ok to have a net-zero year as it relates to your net worth? Do you accomplish this by calculating investment appreciation projection, or make sure to save up the additional cost needed for the purchase during the year before the purchase is made?
While spending on this project is a lifestyle upgrade, as you suggest and are wise to view as such, there is some actual value to you in having this deck when it comes time to sell your home.
You will get a percentage back at resale time. Some number less than 100% but more than 0%. This website suggests about 80%, but your deck sounds much bigger, and therefore more costly, than the average deck :D :D https://www.remodelingcalculator.org/deck-remodel/
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bg5
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by bg5 »

You def should build a deck but $50,000 seems pretty high to me. I have built two brand new decks in the past few years and there were multiple companies that were charging about what you were quoted. I was eventually able to have both decks built for under $12,500 and that was with the best composite deck on the market.

You def want composite at that price and you want either timbertech or trex. Both are great and here are my reviews of each company. Both the Legacy and Transcends are the top level of decking for each company.

TimberTech Legacy Decking - This deck was 20x24 and cost $9,500 and was built in 2020.
https://youtu.be/FNLskU3sLM4

Trex Transcends Decking - This deck was 28x20 and cost $12,500 and was built in 2020.
https://youtu.be/lARoNd8-fXg
makingmistakes
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Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:59 am

Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by makingmistakes »

Sample size of one, so take it for what it’s worth - spent about 30k years ago for a nice deck. We rarely used it - too hot or too cold or too many mosquitoes or …

It probably did add to the house’s attractiveness to buyers when we sold though (not that I think I recouped the expense).
tvubpwcisla
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:09 am

Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by tvubpwcisla »

Yes, you should do it and then stay in the house forever. If you plan on moving, don't do it.
Topic Author
Bogglebendi
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:16 am

Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Bogglebendi »

chipperd wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:38 pm
Bogglebendi wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:06 pm
Shael_AT wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:00 pm

While spending on this project is a lifestyle upgrade, as you suggest and are wise to view as such, there is some actual value to you in having this deck when it comes time to sell your home.
You will get a percentage back at resale time. Some number less than 100% but more than 0%. This website suggests about 80%, but your deck sounds much bigger, and therefore more costly, than the average deck :D :D https://www.remodelingcalculator.org/deck-remodel/
Seems like the higher end the deck is, the lower the ROI would be. Although I do not anticipate selling the home, that is a good factor to consider the added resale. Thank you.
Topic Author
Bogglebendi
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Bogglebendi »

bg5 wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:44 pm You def should build a deck but $50,000 seems pretty high to me. I have built two brand new decks in the past few years and there were multiple companies that were charging about what you were quoted. I was eventually able to have both decks built for under $12,500 and that was with the best composite deck on the market.

You def want composite at that price and you want either timbertech or trex. Both are great and here are my reviews of each company. Both the Legacy and Transcends are the top level of decking for each company.

TimberTech Legacy Decking - This deck was 20x24 and cost $9,500 and was built in 2020.
https://youtu.be/FNLskU3sLM4

Trex Transcends Decking - This deck was 28x20 and cost $12,500 and was built in 2020.
https://youtu.be/lARoNd8-fXg
Your decks look great!
59Gibson
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by 59Gibson »

You can afford it but wow...400 sq ft deck 41-54k? That does seem mighty steep even in these times.
Normchad
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Normchad »

You can afford it. But honestly, you don’t come across as a person that really wants a new deck.

If you really really want it, do it. If you’re not sure, just save your money.

I’ve got a big deck along the back of house, off the second story. Looks into the woods. We basically never use it, because it’s too hot, or their are too many bugs, or some other reason. I never see my neighbors using theirs either.
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Metsfan91
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Metsfan91 »

Just Do It!!! Given that the shoes you are standing on, no hesitation at all!!!
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Outer Marker
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Outer Marker »

The 2nd story deck off my kitchen was the best and most useful improvement I've done to the home since buying it.

$50K does seem expensive. Mine way only 8x10, but with a stairs, a storage shed underneath, and a weatherproofing/gutter system to protect what was stored there. I received one quote for $40,000; one for $30,000, and was ultimately able to get it built by a highly skilled and reputable contractor for $13,000. Keep shopping and negotiate aggressively.
Topic Author
Bogglebendi
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Bogglebendi »

Lots of Do’s and Don’ts. Ha. I guess that is my dilemma. I really do think we would use it often.

The $54k was including 2 stairways (1 on each side), and a attached roof over the majority. We anticipate having nice outdoor furniture, a gas fire pit, and sunscreen shades for the sun. We’re in CO so have relatively low insects.
Topic Author
Bogglebendi
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Bogglebendi »

Outer Marker wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:56 am The 2nd story deck off my kitchen was the best and most useful improvement I've done to the home since buying it.

$50K does seem expensive. Mine way only 8x10, but with a stairs, a storage shed underneath, and a weatherproofing/gutter system to protect what was stored there. I received one quote for $40,000; one for $30,000, and was ultimately able to get it built by a highly skilled and reputable contractor for $13,000. Keep shopping and negotiate aggressively.

I will continue to shop around for better quotes. I will certainly be able to get cheaper bids.

Introducing another topic: I have done many projects & remodels on my rentals. Finding consistent & high quality work that is affordable is impossible. Finding & using the lowest bid has often turned out to be a bad decision.

I have only gotten bids on this project for contractors that were referred to me and I can go see their work. If I am going to do this at all, I would want it to be done right, with as minimal headache as possible.

Thoughts?
Wolfpack2463
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Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:20 am

Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Wolfpack2463 »

I would look to cover/screen in at least a portion of it so you can enjoy it more.
Outer Marker
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Outer Marker »

Bogglebendi wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:24 am I will continue to shop around for better quotes. I will certainly be able to get cheaper bids.

Introducing another topic: I have done many projects & remodels on my rentals. Finding consistent & high quality work that is affordable is impossible. Finding & using the lowest bid has often turned out to be a bad decision.

I have only gotten bids on this project for contractors that were referred to me and I can go see their work. If I am going to do this at all, I would want it to be done right, with as minimal headache as possible.

Thoughts?
I feel exactly the same. The contractor who ultimately built the deck was referred to me my the builder who constructed my last custom home some years ago. He was not the lowest bid, but I was not going to use some guy operating out of the back of a pickup truck with day laborers from the Home Depot parking lot. A good referral network is priceless. There is a lot of price gouging and opportunism in the business, so doing your homework can really pay off. I'd try to get going on it sooner than later, since pricing is likely to be better in the winter than in the spring when everyone wants a new deck.
Fortitude
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Fortitude »

Based on your financials, I’d do the deck. But at $41K - $54K, I question how fair the price is. Frankly, unless I’m missing something or there’s something you didn’t mention like an outdoor fireplace w/chimney, outdoor kitchen, etc, the price seems quite egregious.

For what it’s worth, we just had a beautiful roofed 20’ x 16’ TimberTech composite deck completed off of the kitchen last spring. So it’s slightly smaller than yours by 80 sq. ft. I emphasized that it has a covered roof since this represented 39% of the cost. So if yours won’t be covered, that would make the cost even more shocking.

I’m happy to share the details below so you can be the judge that the estimate you’re getting is reasonable:

TimberTech deck (chose upgraded deck boards) - $15,000

Additional cost for upgraded TimberTech Radiance Rail system - $1,047

Roof system (vaulted/A-frame ceiling) and 7 recessed lights - $12,000

Additional cost for PVC headboard ceiling upgrade - $850

Tru-Scapes Low voltage lighting package (4 pathway lights along patio to deck, 6 deck post lights, 4 deck step lights, transformer) - $1,400

Ceiling fan - $218

Smart switches for ceiling fan and recessed lights - $102


Total Cost - $30,617

Keep in mind that this doesn’t include the $14,850 that we spent on taking out the bay window in the kitchen, bumped that space out by 32 sq. ft, and added an Andersen system of a sidelight on the right and left side of a sliding glass door exiting the kitchen onto the deck. We included this cost as part of the kitchen remodel we did immediately after the deck was completed.

If you’re including a comparable door system exiting the house onto the deck, you’ll want to include these costs in the comparison.
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Sandtrap
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Sandtrap »

Bogglebendi wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:53 pm Struggling a bit to decide on if I should build on a new deck on my home. I have received a few different quotes, and the cost would be between 41-54K. I have been ready to pull the trigger a couple of times, but I keep hitting a wall with the opportunity cost. There is always a long list of things that I could put that money into instead. I have never made such a large purchase on a "luxury" item, and generally do not find those types of purchases comfortable. I am usually a very decisive person, but with this purchase, I have been waffling back and forth.

About the deck: Looking to put on about a 40 ft x 10ft deck on the back of the home. Walkout basement, puts the deck as a 2nd story deck. Currently we have a small deck on the yard level, and rarely use it because it is a level down from the kitchen. Our hope is to create a space that we would be able to use as an additional outside space year round. I imagine we would utilize it near daily. I have 4 children (3-9yo), and want to create that space to use while they are young and still forced to be home all the time! Often, I see people make decisions to improve their homes later in life, but they miss out on utilizing the benefit with their kids.

My focus mostly has been on real-estate, so I feel a little behind on investment accounts. Should I be dumping all this money into investments? Am I too young to divert money into luxury items?

About our financial situation:
Age 38yo
Current gross - 170K (+20-30K annual bonus). Wife does not work.
Personal residence paid off. (Valued = 710K)
Roth His: 59K
Roth Hers: 14K
401K: 321K
Cash: 122K
4 additional rental properties: - Equity in rentals = 533K

Should I be further along with investment accounts? Would a 50K deck purchase be imprudent?

I am a constant lurker here. Appreciate all of the sage advice. Thank you all.
Notes and questions:

How will the deck be used?
By children?
Maximum safety is a concern. So, higher than code railings. Semi solid post and panels vs open pickets for railings. Non skid surface.
Will the deck have a roof extension over it?
Will the deck have a solid floor with drainage or synthetic planking boards?
Will the area beneath the deck have a new cement slab for additional use for the children to play?
Will a pet be on the top deck or bottom area, so . ,. fencing. . .enclosure? (jumping off the deck?)
40' x 10' is a bit narrow. Can you go wider? 12 feet or over that for best return on your dollar?

Comments:
A deck is not a luxury item if it adds value and usability and enjoyment to your home.
Considering your income and financials, a 100k deck larger than what you propose with a roof extension and fully integrated in your home design and done very tastefully might be well worth it to the point where you will say to yourself, "I should've done this long ago".

Great idea.
Do it and do it as well as you can afford.

Use a reputable licensed General Contractor.
Get at least 3 bid proposals on the "same design and specs".
Have the design done by an architect for a flat fee so it will be fully integrated in the design of your home vs looking like an "add on" which many do.
Don't scrimp on quality and workmanship because you will have to look at it for a long time.
Do it per code. And, think ahead on the design and conveniences.
Consider many possibilities in your design. IE: outside stairway from deck to ground level, etc, etc, etc.

We have very very large decks on each story of our home that we only go out occasionally to look at something or things like that. But, we don't "hang out" on them due to mosquitoes, etc. But, they do add to the design of the home (very nice) and is there if needed, so well worth it to us. I know some folks who BBQ and entertain on some very large decks and that's great for them as well.

j :D
Last edited by Sandtrap on Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Normchad
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Normchad »

I agree with using referrals.
Also be sure to get a permit. Most really big deck problems deal with how it’s supported, how it’s connected to the house, and the underground footings. Lights and stairs also matter.

Getting a permit will ensure you get local government inspections, which should help ensure everything is done to code. No guarantees, but a big help. Plus I’d never work with somebody who wasn’t willing to have their work permitted.
Last edited by Normchad on Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
RedDog
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by RedDog »

I think I would in your shoes. However you should still consider the deck’s likely life span (typically around 20 years if not rigorously maintained) and maintenance…as another commenter observed it would be wise to at least consider composite decking.
poker27
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by poker27 »

As someone who enjoys being/eating/drinking outside, I’d do it. The convience of being on the same level as the kitchen is huge (who wants to lug food and drinks down a level).
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Gmt21
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Gmt21 »

We have always had a deck like you described. In 40 years we've completely replaced it once. 2 years ago we did did some repairs and freshened it up since we added onto the house and put in a backyard patio (simple concrete) and pool. We ended up removing part of the deck for the addition. Now that we have the rear patio and pool we never use the front and side decks. Tbh, I wish we didn't have the deck because it isn't covered and during the winter I end up cursing it out when I'm shoveling it off. I'm thinking of remodeling it so that it's covered but I can't really justify the cost. That's my experience with decks. Hope it helps.
Shael_AT
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Shael_AT »

Bogglebendi wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:06 pm
Shael_AT wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:00 pm Given your current net worth, owning the home outright, and having a high and stable income, it would be fair to say that building a new deck at this price point is feasible and doable. We are in a similar situation; our sage wisdom " " has been to ensure that no large project or purchase will cause our net-worth to be lower at the 1st of the year than the 365th final day of the year. The second rule is always to maintain a 3-6 month cash or equivalent emergency fund.

January 1st, Net worth (example) 1million
During the year; Projects, Purchases, budgets, Savings, Investments, etc.
December 31st, Net worth (example) = or > that 1 million

Even if the project was a $50,000 deck.

Hope that provides some insight and an example.

Thank you. So you are ok to have a net-zero year as it relates to your net worth? Do you accomplish this by calculating investment appreciation projection, or make sure to save up the additional cost needed for the purchase during the year before the purchase is made?
I am, because total NW is high enough. At some point, we chase value and lifestyle, not more money.

I would not include appreciation of the house as part of this calculation, because it is an unrealized and highly opaque value. If the deck adds value back when you sell adjusted for inflation plus some profit, consider it a kind but volatile and uncertain gift to your future self.
fyre4ce
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by fyre4ce »

bg5 wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:44 pm You def should build a deck but $50,000 seems pretty high to me. I have built two brand new decks in the past few years and there were multiple companies that were charging about what you were quoted. I was eventually able to have both decks built for under $12,500 and that was with the best composite deck on the market.

You def want composite at that price and you want either timbertech or trex. Both are great and here are my reviews of each company. Both the Legacy and Transcends are the top level of decking for each company.

TimberTech Legacy Decking - This deck was 20x24 and cost $9,500 and was built in 2020.
https://youtu.be/FNLskU3sLM4

Trex Transcends Decking - This deck was 28x20 and cost $12,500 and was built in 2020.
https://youtu.be/lARoNd8-fXg
How were you able to find a contractor who did the job for 1/4 the price of your early quotes?
Topic Author
Bogglebendi
Posts: 58
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Bogglebendi »

Sandtrap wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:55 am
Bogglebendi wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:53 pm Struggling a bit to decide on if I should build on a new deck on my home. I have received a few different quotes, and the cost would be between 41-54K. I have been ready to pull the trigger a couple of times, but I keep hitting a wall with the opportunity cost. There is always a long list of things that I could put that money into instead. I have never made such a large purchase on a "luxury" item, and generally do not find those types of purchases comfortable. I am usually a very decisive person, but with this purchase, I have been waffling back and forth.

About the deck: Looking to put on about a 40 ft x 10ft deck on the back of the home. Walkout basement, puts the deck as a 2nd story deck. Currently we have a small deck on the yard level, and rarely use it because it is a level down from the kitchen. Our hope is to create a space that we would be able to use as an additional outside space year round. I imagine we would utilize it near daily. I have 4 children (3-9yo), and want to create that space to use while they are young and still forced to be home all the time! Often, I see people make decisions to improve their homes later in life, but they miss out on utilizing the benefit with their kids.

My focus mostly has been on real-estate, so I feel a little behind on investment accounts. Should I be dumping all this money into investments? Am I too young to divert money into luxury items?

About our financial situation:
Age 38yo
Current gross - 170K (+20-30K annual bonus). Wife does not work.
Personal residence paid off. (Valued = 710K)
Roth His: 59K
Roth Hers: 14K
401K: 321K
Cash: 122K
4 additional rental properties: - Equity in rentals = 533K

Should I be further along with investment accounts? Would a 50K deck purchase be imprudent?

I am a constant lurker here. Appreciate all of the sage advice. Thank you all.
Notes and questions:

How will the deck be used?
By children?
Maximum safety is a concern. So, higher than code railings. Semi solid post and panels vs open pickets for railings. Non skid surface.
Will the deck have a roof extension over it?
Will the deck have a solid floor with drainage or synthetic planking boards?
Will the area beneath the deck have a new cement slab for additional use for the children to play?
Will a pet be on the top deck or bottom area, so . ,. fencing. . .enclosure? (jumping off the deck?)
40' x 10' is a bit narrow. Can you go wider? 12 feet or over that for best return on your dollar?

Comments:
A deck is not a luxury item if it adds value and usability and enjoyment to your home.
Considering your income and financials, a 100k deck larger than what you propose with a roof extension and fully integrated in your home design and done very tastefully might be well worth it to the point where you will say to yourself, "I should've done this long ago".

Great idea.
Do it and do it as well as you can afford.

Use a reputable licensed General Contractor.
Get at least 3 bid proposals on the "same design and specs".
Have the design done by an architect for a flat fee so it will be fully integrated in the design of your home vs looking like an "add on" which many do.
Don't scrimp on quality and workmanship because you will have to look at it for a long time.
Do it per code. And, think ahead on the design and conveniences.
Consider many possibilities in your design. IE: outside stairway from deck to ground level, etc, etc, etc.

We have very very large decks on each story of our home that we only go out occasionally to look at something or things like that. But, we don't "hang out" on them due to mosquitoes, etc. But, they do add to the design of the home (very nice) and is there if needed, so well worth it to us. I know some folks who BBQ and entertain on some very large decks and that's great for them as well.

j :D

Thank you Sandtrap. We are planning on a roof over top built in. It would be hard to imagine high utilization without a covering.

Kids will definitely be using it, so safety is important. No pets.

Our original plan was to go 8ft out from the house, with the corners being larger, because of the house layout. 8ft seemed too narrow, so we are looking at 10 ft out from house (which puts both corners out 16 ft. 12ft would be great. I will weigh that.

We want to concrete underneath for extra living space below. This would be between 6-8k. Most likely would do this in phase 2.

We want a staircase on either end. We are getting that staircase are 5k each. So maybe hold 1 for phase 2.
Outer Marker
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Outer Marker »

fyre4ce wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:20 pm
bg5 wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:44 pm You def should build a deck but $50,000 seems pretty high to me. I have built two brand new decks in the past few years and there were multiple companies that were charging about what you were quoted. I was eventually able to have both decks built for under $12,500 and that was with the best composite deck on the market.

You def want composite at that price and you want either timbertech or trex. Both are great and here are my reviews of each company. Both the Legacy and Transcends are the top level of decking for each company.

TimberTech Legacy Decking - This deck was 20x24 and cost $9,500 and was built in 2020.
https://youtu.be/FNLskU3sLM4

Trex Transcends Decking - This deck was 28x20 and cost $12,500 and was built in 2020.
https://youtu.be/lARoNd8-fXg
How were you able to find a contractor who did the job for 1/4 the price of your early quotes?
There can be huge variations in price in the construction trades, and price is not necessarily reflective of quality.

Example 1: on a recent remodel, my GC wanted to charge me $220/light x 16 pots to replaced old recessed lights with new LEDs i.e., $3,500; I was able to use a highly skilled independent electrician I knew from a prior job who did the project for $800.

Example 2: GC "pass through" and markup for relocating baseboard plumbing by an HVAC sub was $8,000. My excellent plumber did the job for $3,000.

Example 3: Got 2 quotes from landscaping companies for stone patio and stairs for $23,000. One of my contractor friends hooked me up with an indpendent stone mason who did a beautiful job for $7,000.

It takes a while to get a "feel" for what jobs should cost. Ideally you want to work with a sub who does the actual work rather than a brand name company that has a storefront and a website and contracts out the work. Some projects are too big to GC yourself, but a deck is not.
Sagefemme
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Sagefemme »

We have a two story house where the lower floor is walk-out basement and upper floor is kitchen-living-dining-family room. Our second floor deck, built in 2014, has made a huge improvement in the livability of the house. We spend tons of time on this deck, eat lunch and dinner out there very frequently in summer and fall, and entertain frequently on the deck. There are two different sets of doors to the deck--a single door from the kitchen and French doors from the living room. The deck is "landscaped" with an extensive container garden that, in summer and fall, make the space spectacular, if I do say so myself. I wish we had had this space when my kids were small. We have a very felicitous climate in summer and fall with essentially no bugs, which adds to the enjoyability. I think one set of stairs is probably enough, even for a large deck. We use a large tiltable umbrella for relief from hot sun. The shade is essential. Go for it!!
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Sandtrap
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Sandtrap »

Bogglebendi wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:44 pm Thank you Sandtrap. We are planning on a roof over top built in. It would be hard to imagine high utilization without a covering.

Kids will definitely be using it, so safety is important. No pets.

Our original plan was to go 8ft out from the house, with the corners being larger, because of the house layout. 8ft seemed too narrow, so we are looking at 10 ft out from house (which puts both corners out 16 ft. 12ft would be great. I will weigh that.

We want to concrete underneath for extra living space below. This would be between 6-8k. Most likely would do this in phase 2.

We want a staircase on either end. We are getting that staircase are 5k each. So maybe hold 1 for phase 2.
Great ideas and plan.
Notes:
1. Pour the cement landings (calculate correctly) for the stairways at the same time as the lower slab to save $ and efficiency.
2. Pour the footings and the lower slab at the same time so that it will be integrated, reinforced, and look as one. Unless you are going to used raised sonotube footing pads to get the posts off the ground level or slab level.
3. Roof over will add a lot of weight so engineer the footings, beams, etc, to support.
4. Latest code in most areas does not allow ledgers on a building as the sole support on that end so posts/footings, etc, will have to be installed on the beam closest to the house as well.
5. You're correct that 8 foot will seem narrow for a useable deck. Go as wide/deep as you can.
6. If your Phase 1 footings are deep footings per code depth plus raised sonotube cement to get the posts off the grade level, then the slab can indeed be poured later. Do not pour cement around wood posts later as that is a wood rot, etc, vulnerability. Keep the posts above slab level.
6b. The alternative posts besides IE: 6x6 trtd fir posts would be either full reinforced cement sonotube or 24x24 CMU but that might be overkill. Depends on the look you want as well and matching the house. For example, if you have existing columns around your home that are around 30x30 with a brick or stone facing over CMU then you might want to mirror that to match.
7. Roof extension and tie in to match existing is a great idea and looks a lot nicer than just a deck sticking out. Be sure to match pitch and eave length, style, etc.

j
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andypanda
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by andypanda »

"since pricing is likely to be better in the winter than in the spring when everyone wants a new deck."

I don't know about pricing, but simply getting one of the highly recommended companies to do 2 composite decks and a landing with 4 steps from French doors required getting on a waiting list. Our turn, depending on the weather in March, will be soon. We put a deposit down in June. They have 3 experienced crews and won't add a crew. They tried it once years ago and it didn't work out. They couldn't find people with consistently high standards and call backs took too much time away from the 3 good crews.

We could have had it started by a guy in a truck in late August or September. Any number of guys. I wonder, why weren't they busy?
Gus
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Gus »

Ten feet isn’t wide/deep enough to have a table with people sitting on opposite sides. You need 12 feet for that or there won’t be room to pass when people are seated.

Look up “deck picture framing” and make sure your decking will be installed this way.

The connections for the posts which support the railing system are critical. Some deck builders aren’t up to speed on current requirements. Ask how the posts are connected to the rim joist. The answer should involve “structural screws” or special hardware. Notched posts and posts attached with carriage bolts are red flags - don’t hire anyone who still does it that way.

Ask how the decking will be installed. They should use some sort of hidden fastening system.

Ask how they protect the framing. The framing should be protected by a waterproof membrane.
sureshoe
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by sureshoe »

Bogglebendi wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:53 pm About the deck: Looking to put on about a 40 ft x 10ft deck on the back of the home. Walkout basement, puts the deck as a 2nd story deck. Currently we have a small deck on the yard level, and rarely use it because it is a level down from the kitchen. Our hope is to create a space that we would be able to use as an additional outside space year round. I imagine we would utilize it near daily. I have 4 children (3-9yo), and want to create that space to use while they are young and still forced to be home all the time! Often, I see people make decisions to improve their homes later in life, but they miss out on utilizing the benefit with their kids.
I personally am not a big "deck guy" unless we're talking covered (I'm kicking around building an outdoor space (on the ground) that is covered, but holding off while I do some other things. However, this is your personal opinion/choice, so do what works. Also, on a deck, I'm assuming you are getting the no-maintenance/boards/etc. I would really hate to have something I have to deal with every couple years.

On a side, funny note, 30 some years ago we built a 2nd floor deck for my uncle (I more just stood around). That thing was still standing when I visited them recently and was certain we were all going to die when it collapsed. There were no architects involved and we used plain lumber.

Anyhoo... the biggest part of this that I think resonates is "while the kids are young". If you're racing to an early retirement - strip all your spending, buckle down and save. But... I think you have the right mentality. Balance spending with saving so you "live life", because you never get these years back with your kids, and regret is the heaviest of burdens.
Colorado Guy
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Colorado Guy »

Bogglebendi wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:53 pm Struggling a bit to decide on if I should build on a new deck on my home. I have received a few different quotes, and the cost would be between 41-54K.
I am not too surprised at the contractor cost. In 2021 I replaced an existing 2nd floor deck of approximately the same size, and spent $16k in materials alone. (My son says that if my house is destroyed, the deck will still be standing on its own.) In my case I was unable to secure a contractor at all, everyone was so booked up in the area, so contractors can essentially name their own price. That may be the same in your local area as well.

Lots of upgrades you can do, all of which will impact material and contractor pricing. Regarding decking material, check with your local permitting office. In my case, most synthetic decking materials were not approved by the code people. California seems to have the most stringent requirements. Don't have the deck built and find out from the inspector that the material is not approved.

Suggestion: Since you are talking about roofing and such, you probably should start with an architect dwg, which would help eliminate unknowns to the contractor bidding on the work.
fishnhunt
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by fishnhunt »

I built a 20' x 16' deck myself last fall off the back of my house. All in for materials I was at $2,100. This included concrete, treated wood, screws, joist hangers etc. Composite decking would have been another few grand if I went that route. $50k for a 40' x 10' seems outrageous (only 80sf more than what I built).
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Hockey10 »

Consider building part of it as a screened in porch and part of it open to the sun. This will give you maximum flexibility for use depending on weather conditions / bugs. There will be days when it is chilly outside and you would rather sit in the sun than under a roof. On days when it is rainy / hot / buggy you will want to be under a roof and behind a screen.
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Bogglebendi
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Bogglebendi »

andypanda wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:43 am "since pricing is likely to be better in the winter than in the spring when everyone wants a new deck."

I don't know about pricing, but simply getting one of the highly recommended companies to do 2 composite decks and a landing with 4 steps from French doors required getting on a waiting list. Our turn, depending on the weather in March, will be soon. We put a deposit down in June. They have 3 experienced crews and won't add a crew. They tried it once years ago and it didn't work out. They couldn't find people with consistently high standards and call backs took too much time away from the 3 good crews.

We could have had it started by a guy in a truck in late August or September. Any number of guys. I wonder, why weren't they busy?

Ya, everyone is quoting out for late summer to fall at this point. All the good ones are booked out.
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climber2020
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by climber2020 »

Bogglebendi wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:53 pm Struggling a bit to decide on if I should build on a new deck on my home
Reviving this thread 1.5+ years later. What did you end up doing?
SRenaeP
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by SRenaeP »

Wolfpack2463 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:30 am I would look to cover/screen in at least a portion of it so you can enjoy it more.
+1

We expanded our original deck several years ago. While we did use it slightly more, we should have gotten it screened in as well. We recently did so and have used the deck more in a few months than in any other whole year. One or both of us (no kids) is out there multiple times a week. On days it's not too hot (we're in the south), I sometimes take the laptop out and WFH on the deck. It wasn't cheap but is money well spent. I wish we'd done it years ago.
Katietsu
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Katietsu »

I am running through the utilization of decks and large porches amongst myself, my friends and family. Most are not used as much as anticipated. Those that are used are utilized almost exclusively by the adults or maybe older teenagers. The kids are there mainly to eat during a birthday party. Even the large screened in porch at a family cabin has been used lightly.

Do you entertain a lot? Do you have experience with kids hanging on others’ decks? If you think the value is there, go for it. But $50,000 is a significant percentage of your take home pay. So, I personally would want to do soul searching of the actual utility of the porch and not just what you would like the utility to be.
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

I think you can afford to build the deck.

I would seriously think beyond the actual deck - what kind of light does it get (will it be blazing hot in the summer?) What kind of privacy will it have - from your neighbors windows (I'm envisioning your neighbor to clearly see/hear everything happening on your deck from their kitchen window or from their own deck - like they would be able to talk to you without raising their voice. :) )

Think about if having some sort of "roof" over part of it (shelter from light rain or too much sun) would make it more usable year round.

If you plan to use your deck - you have to think about these kinds of things... other wise you will be less likely to use it.

Also, make sure it is safe for children to play on/use.

Think about the maintenance of the deck as well. (I know why kids might not like to play out on the deck - because of decking material and the space between boards. Decks can also be dusty/dirty/grimey just from being outside. )
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mrmass
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by mrmass »

climber2020 wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:10 pm
Bogglebendi wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:53 pm Struggling a bit to decide on if I should build on a new deck on my home
Reviving this thread 1.5+ years later. What did you end up doing?
Yup another thread with high interest that the OP didn't update. :oops:
OpenMinded1
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by OpenMinded1 »

mrmass wrote: Fri Oct 06, 2023 12:08 pm
climber2020 wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:10 pm
Bogglebendi wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:53 pm Struggling a bit to decide on if I should build on a new deck on my home
Reviving this thread 1.5+ years later. What did you end up doing?
Yup another thread with high interest that the OP didn't update. :oops:
Thanks for pointing that out. I was getting ready to respond. Glad I didn't waste my time.
old medic
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by old medic »

The title caught my attention. We just added a 12X16 deck, with a 4x8 stepdown to the garage, Used the dual-colored composite with hidden fasteners complete with handrails and stairs for $2200 in material.
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StevieG72
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by StevieG72 »

I agree with Sandtrap to overbuild for safety. My brother built a 2nd level deck and used 6X6 vs. 4x4 and larger boards for joists as well. It has survived many years and is very solid. Easily passed inspection as well.
Fools think their own way is right, but the wise listen to others.
chassis
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by chassis »

Bogglebendi wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:53 pm Struggling a bit to decide on if I should build on a new deck on my home. I have received a few different quotes, and the cost would be between 41-54K. I have been ready to pull the trigger a couple of times, but I keep hitting a wall with the opportunity cost. There is always a long list of things that I could put that money into instead. I have never made such a large purchase on a "luxury" item, and generally do not find those types of purchases comfortable. I am usually a very decisive person, but with this purchase, I have been waffling back and forth.

About the deck: Looking to put on about a 40 ft x 10ft deck on the back of the home. Walkout basement, puts the deck as a 2nd story deck. Currently we have a small deck on the yard level, and rarely use it because it is a level down from the kitchen. Our hope is to create a space that we would be able to use as an additional outside space year round. I imagine we would utilize it near daily. I have 4 children (3-9yo), and want to create that space to use while they are young and still forced to be home all the time! Often, I see people make decisions to improve their homes later in life, but they miss out on utilizing the benefit with their kids.

My focus mostly has been on real-estate, so I feel a little behind on investment accounts. Should I be dumping all this money into investments? Am I too young to divert money into luxury items?

About our financial situation:
Age 38yo
Current gross - 170K (+20-30K annual bonus). Wife does not work.
Personal residence paid off. (Valued = 710K)
Roth His: 59K
Roth Hers: 14K
401K: 321K
Cash: 122K
4 additional rental properties: - Equity in rentals = 533K

Should I be further along with investment accounts? Would a 50K deck purchase be imprudent?

I am a constant lurker here. Appreciate all of the sage advice. Thank you all.
No right or wrong answer. IMO seems like money would be better spent elsewhere:

- kids' college educations
- your own retirement funds
- family vacation
- need any new furniture?
MikeG62
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by MikeG62 »

I think it's a good idea - more for your enjoyment than for increasing value in the home.

My two comments are as follows:

$50K seems kind of steep for a 400sf deck, but I have not had a deck done in over two decades. I can't help but think you will find other contractors at a somewhat lower price point. Then have them compete for the job by sharpening their pencil's once they know you have multiple bids. Also, considering doing this right before the winter, as decking contractors might see a slowdown in their business as the winter approached. Having said all that, the roof may be driving a big piece of the cost. Could you swap in place a pergola with rafters that can close? Might give you a similar covering, but also the ability to get more light in when you want.

Probably more important than my first point is my second point. I would go wider than 10 feet. I truly think you will find that to be very narrow. Hard to walk around any table you might put on it. Add at least another 5 feet - even if it means you need to shorten the length slightly (although hopefully you won't need to).

You've done a great job of paying off your home at a young age. You are in great shape here financially.

Good luck and enjoy the new deck once done.
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Bogglebendi
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Re: 50K Deck - Do or Don't

Post by Bogglebendi »

climber2020 wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:10 pm
Bogglebendi wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:53 pm Struggling a bit to decide on if I should build on a new deck on my home
Reviving this thread 1.5+ years later. What did you end up doing?
I appreciate the follow-up. I have been taking my time on the decision. The input that I received here was very valuable. We delayed the project for a year and then decided to build the deck (paying cash for it in phases). I have received 9 quotes for building our ideal deck. These were all quotes from reputable contractors that we knew of locally, or were referrals from friends/neighbors.

Ironically, we went under contract with a contractor earlier this Summer, with an anticipated start date of next month (11/2023). So, there has not been any updates to present yet.

Phase 1 will be the construction of the 2nd story deck off of the main level of our home. It will be 40x12’ with each corner being 19’ deep (not 12’). We will have a staircase on either end of the deck with stair lighting. We have opted to engineer the deck and submit drawings to support the roof over 80% of the deck. The roof will be completed in phase 2.

Phase 3 will be to pour concrete pad under the entire bottom level, which will allow for the use of the under space, which will have a 9’ ceiling throughout. This phase will also include opening up a wall of the house onto the deck using folding, glass panel doors to open up a 15’ indoor/outdoor entrance, as a 2nd entrance.

Deck will be an upgraded (natural looking) composite decking, with a metal rail and composite beverage rail.

For those suggesting a deck like this can be completed on a low budget, are ill-informed. Unless they can do it themselves, I suppose. With the new drawings that I refined, I received quotes from 40k-109k for the project, with extensive research. I fell closer to the lower end, but am not at the lowest of the quotes.
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