Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

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Sam_957
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by Sam_957 »

“ Part of the reason is because the project I'm working on isn't feasible with the team that's in place and it's crawling along.”

I’d guess a large part of your current dissatisfaction is related to this. Have you voiced your concerns and possible solutions to your manager?

Seems like you may need a smaller project, bigger team, different skills, better PM, different ways of working/collaborating. Agile, pair programming (or just work sessions if not programming), daily stand ups to drive accountability and surface issues early. Break the project down into smaller deliverables if people have too much latitude and are floundering. Lots of fun working with people opportunities here ;).
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Apathizer
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by Apathizer »

JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:17 am
Apathizer wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:10 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:05 pm
Apathizer wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:04 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:27 pm (shrug) Got it.

We all make tradeoffs in our lives. Sounds like you've made yours.
Trade-offs and mistakes. Though my mistakes weren't terrible, I wish had taken a more practical educations path. I have a BA, but that's not very useful unfortunately.
I learned mid-career that it's never too late to get more education.
Again, times are different now. Educations was more affordable then. I don't want to borrow significant money, so if I go back it will probably be community college (or whatever the preferred term is now).
You keep coming up with reasons not to do something. That's your choice to make.
Reality is different for every generation and every person. Those who grew up in the 70s had more ample access to affordable education, esp in states like CA. That's not the reality today. Today prospective students are likely to incur significant debt, which means they have less flexibility to pursue interests that might be impractical. If they borrow significantly for an impractical education they become mired in significant debt that hinders them for many years; sometimes decades.

That's the reality many people face today. It's important to think carefully when considering significant financial options such as borrowing money and educational paths. In the past most people could get a bachelors degree affordably, without incur massive debt; that's no longer reality.
Last edited by Apathizer on Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Devil's Advocate
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by Devil's Advocate »

Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:33 am
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:17 am
Apathizer wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:10 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:05 pm
Apathizer wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:04 pm
Trade-offs and mistakes. Though my mistakes weren't terrible, I wish had taken a more practical educations path. I have a BA, but that's not very useful unfortunately.
I learned mid-career that it's never too late to get more education.
Again, times are different now. Educations was more affordable then. I don't want to borrow significant money, so if I go back it will probably be community college (or whatever the preferred term is now).
You keep coming up with reasons not to do something. That's your choice to make.
Reality is different for every generation and every person. Those who grew up in the 70s had more ample access to affordable education, esp in states like CA. That's not the reality today. Today prospective students are likely to incur significant debt, which means they have less flexibility to pursue interests that might be impractical. If they borrow significantly for an impractical education they become mired in significant debt that hinders them for many years; sometimes decades.

That's the reality many people face today. It's important to think carefully when considering significant financial options such as borrowing money and considering educational paths. In the past most people could get a bachelors degree affordably, without incur massive debt; that's no longer reality.
It is important for people to understand the implications of taking on debt for a degree that is not relatable to the marketplace.

I would posit that not everyone has to incur massive debt for that education.

DA
Apathizer
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by Apathizer »

Devil's Advocate wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:48 am
Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:33 am
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:17 am
Apathizer wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:10 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:05 pm
I learned mid-career that it's never too late to get more education.
Again, times are different now. Educations was more affordable then. I don't want to borrow significant money, so if I go back it will probably be community college (or whatever the preferred term is now).
You keep coming up with reasons not to do something. That's your choice to make.
Reality is different for every generation and every person. Those who grew up in the 70s had more ample access to affordable education, esp in states like CA. That's not the reality today. Today prospective students are likely to incur significant debt, which means they have less flexibility to pursue interests that might be impractical. If they borrow significantly for an impractical education they become mired in significant debt that hinders them for many years; sometimes decades.

That's the reality many people face today. It's important to think carefully when considering significant financial options such as borrowing money and considering educational paths. In the past most people could get a bachelors degree affordably, without incur massive debt; that's no longer reality.
It is important for people to understand the implications of taking on debt for a degree that is not relatable to the marketplace.

I would posit that not everyone has to incur massive debt for that education.

DA
No, people fortunate enough to be born into affluence can follow their inclinations whatever they might be. In college I met such a person; a grad student in Scandinavian film studies. Since their family was paying for it he wasn't burdening himself with massive debt, but it would be foolish to borrow for a likely impractical education.
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by Slacker »

Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:32 pm
Devil's Advocate wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:48 am
Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:33 am
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:17 am
Apathizer wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:10 pm
Again, times are different now. Educations was more affordable then. I don't want to borrow significant money, so if I go back it will probably be community college (or whatever the preferred term is now).
You keep coming up with reasons not to do something. That's your choice to make.
Reality is different for every generation and every person. Those who grew up in the 70s had more ample access to affordable education, esp in states like CA. That's not the reality today. Today prospective students are likely to incur significant debt, which means they have less flexibility to pursue interests that might be impractical. If they borrow significantly for an impractical education they become mired in significant debt that hinders them for many years; sometimes decades.

That's the reality many people face today. It's important to think carefully when considering significant financial options such as borrowing money and considering educational paths. In the past most people could get a bachelors degree affordably, without incur massive debt; that's no longer reality.
It is important for people to understand the implications of taking on debt for a degree that is not relatable to the marketplace.

I would posit that not everyone has to incur massive debt for that education.

DA
No, people fortunate enough to be born into affluence can follow their inclinations whatever they might be. In college I met such a person; a grad student in Scandinavian film studies. Since their family was paying for it he wasn't burdening himself with massive debt, but it would be foolish to borrow for a likely impractical education.
I thought Joe Retire's point was to get more education related to enhancing your job status (salary, quality of work projects, etc) and not to go into debt to get an education on what sounds like a highly specialized area that is unlikely to have job opportunities related to the degree.
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by Apathizer »

Slacker wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:50 pmI thought Joe Retire's point was to get more education related to enhancing your job status (salary, quality of work projects, etc) and not to go into debt to get an education on what sounds like a highly specialized area that is unlikely to have job opportunities related to the degree.
Even that path can be dicey since it isn't necessarily clear what course of actions to follow, and doing so might incur even more debt.

For instance, I have a psychology BA. Not so impractical as something like Scandinavian FS, but with only a BA prospects in my field are limited. Should go back to grad school and incur significant debt? Or maybe consider a local college or apprenticeship for a new job entirely? The latter would almost certainly be more cost-effective, but I haven't found anything practical that also interests me.

I really just want to retire so I don't have to think about it anymore. :-?
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by goodenyou »

JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:17 am
Apathizer wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:10 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:05 pm
Apathizer wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:04 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:27 pm (shrug) Got it.

We all make tradeoffs in our lives. Sounds like you've made yours.
Trade-offs and mistakes. Though my mistakes weren't terrible, I wish had taken a more practical educations path. I have a BA, but that's not very useful unfortunately.
I learned mid-career that it's never too late to get more education.
Again, times are different now. Educations was more affordable then. I don't want to borrow significant money, so if I go back it will probably be community college (or whatever the preferred term is now).
You keep coming up with reasons not to do something. That's your choice to make.
Maybe a bit...apathetic?
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JoeRetire
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by JoeRetire »

goodenyou wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:20 pm Maybe a bit...apathetic?
:happy

I get it - people feel "stuck" with what they have. Momentum is a hard thing to overcome. But it's always just a matter of priorities.

Don't like your job? Find a new one. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.
Don't think you have the right education? Get some. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.
Bored? Find something less boring to do. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.

I don't accept the reply "it's hard, it used to be easier". That's an excuse. Some things were easier in the past, some things were harder. So what?
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Apathizer
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by Apathizer »

JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:26 pm
goodenyou wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:20 pm Maybe a bit...apathetic?
:happy

I get it - people feel "stuck" with what they have. Momentum is a hard thing to overcome. But it's always just a matter of priorities.

Don't like your job? Find a new one. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.
Don't think you have the right education? Get some. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.
Bored? Find something less boring to do. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.

I don't accept the reply "it's hard, it used to be easier". That's an excuse. Some things were easier in the past, some things were harder. So what?
In the past it was much easier to find a living wage job with only a high school education. There are very few such jobs anymore. About 60% of US jobs pay less than $20/hr; many significantly less. Most of the other 40% are competitive, and require significant education.

You make is sound much simpler than it is. If someone has bills to pay, they can't just casually find another job or something else to do if it won't pay the bills. There's some truth to your suggestions, but reality is much more complex than you seem to realize.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by JoeRetire »

Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:36 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:26 pm
goodenyou wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:20 pm Maybe a bit...apathetic?
:happy

I get it - people feel "stuck" with what they have. Momentum is a hard thing to overcome. But it's always just a matter of priorities.

Don't like your job? Find a new one. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.
Don't think you have the right education? Get some. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.
Bored? Find something less boring to do. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.

I don't accept the reply "it's hard, it used to be easier". That's an excuse. Some things were easier in the past, some things were harder. So what?
In the past it was much easier to find a living wage job with only a high school education. There are very few such jobs anymore. About 60% of US jobs pay less than $20/hr; many significantly less. Most of the other 40% are competitive, and require significant education.

You make is sound much simpler than it is. If someone has bills to pay, they can't just casually find another job or something else to do if it won't pay the bills. There's some truth to your suggestions, but reality is much more complex than you seem to realize.
My parents were able to comfortably purchase a home on one income from a person without a high school education. It was harder for me.
So what? My wife and I worked and saved until we could fund an affordable home. We did without vacation and new cars and purchased a modest home.

My parents couldn't afford to send me to college.
So what? I worked two jobs so that I could pay my way. My wife did the same.

My father worked in a job that provided a pension. Shortly after I started my professional career, pensions basically didn't exist.
So what? I funded my own retirement through 401ks, other investments and savings.

I was married with two kids when I decided I needed an advanced degree to make sufficient progress in my career.
So what? I went to school nights and weekends and did homework during my lunch time in order to pursue my Masters degree while holding down a 55+ hour per week job.

I determined that my chosen career was starting to get outsourced, and that fewer jobs would be available.
So what? I changed careers.

I learned how expensive my children's college education would be.
So what? We paid for their education by working hard and long.

We all decide what's important and prioritize that. Please don't tell me what I don't realize. And please don't think life should always be easy.
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fortunefavored
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by fortunefavored »

Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:36 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:26 pm
goodenyou wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:20 pm Maybe a bit...apathetic?
:happy

I get it - people feel "stuck" with what they have. Momentum is a hard thing to overcome. But it's always just a matter of priorities.

Don't like your job? Find a new one. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.
Don't think you have the right education? Get some. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.
Bored? Find something less boring to do. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.

I don't accept the reply "it's hard, it used to be easier". That's an excuse. Some things were easier in the past, some things were harder. So what?
In the past it was much easier to find a living wage job with only a high school education. There are very few such jobs anymore. About 60% of US jobs pay less than $20/hr; many significantly less. Most of the other 40% are competitive, and require significant education.

You make is sound much simpler than it is. If someone has bills to pay, they can't just casually find another job or something else to do if it won't pay the bills. There's some truth to your suggestions, but reality is much more complex than you seem to realize.
When I mentor people like Apathizer, I always ask about:

Capability - do you frankly have the inherent skills/intelligence to take on a new role/challenge/job?
Capacity - do you have the bandwidth to do the things that are required to get there? If you're working 60/hours week.. probably not.
Desire - how badly do you desire what your goal is? "I'm bored" is rarely sufficient.
Consequences - are you prepared for what might happen? Not being able to find a job that pays the bills, neglecting your current job to free up the capacity to pursue the new one and risking layoff, going into debt for training/education, etc.

For the vast majority of mid-late career people, these are all big fat "no ways." Even "capability" is a stretch for very smart people as we all get dumber and slower once we get into our 40s.

Sure, you CAN do anything you want, that's life - you can even choose to be homeless and pick up panhandling. But it doesn't make it a good choice.
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by stoptothink »

Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:36 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:26 pm
goodenyou wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:20 pm Maybe a bit...apathetic?
:happy

I get it - people feel "stuck" with what they have. Momentum is a hard thing to overcome. But it's always just a matter of priorities.

Don't like your job? Find a new one. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.
Don't think you have the right education? Get some. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.
Bored? Find something less boring to do. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.

I don't accept the reply "it's hard, it used to be easier". That's an excuse. Some things were easier in the past, some things were harder. So what?
In the past it was much easier to find a living wage job with only a high school education. There are very few such jobs anymore. About 60% of US jobs pay less than $20/hr; many significantly less. Most of the other 40% are competitive, and require significant education.

You make is sound much simpler than it is. If someone has bills to pay, they can't just casually find another job or something else to do if it won't pay the bills. There's some truth to your suggestions, but reality is much more complex than you seem to realize.
By any chance is your username a reference to your apathetic attitude?
onourway
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by onourway »

Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:36 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:26 pm
goodenyou wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:20 pm Maybe a bit...apathetic?
:happy

I get it - people feel "stuck" with what they have. Momentum is a hard thing to overcome. But it's always just a matter of priorities.

Don't like your job? Find a new one. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.
Don't think you have the right education? Get some. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.
Bored? Find something less boring to do. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.

I don't accept the reply "it's hard, it used to be easier". That's an excuse. Some things were easier in the past, some things were harder. So what?
In the past it was much easier to find a living wage job with only a high school education. There are very few such jobs anymore. About 60% of US jobs pay less than $20/hr; many significantly less. Most of the other 40% are competitive, and require significant education.

You make is sound much simpler than it is. If someone has bills to pay, they can't just casually find another job or something else to do if it won't pay the bills. There's some truth to your suggestions, but reality is much more complex than you seem to realize.
I think that you could benefit greatly by talking to a therapist, career coach, and some motivational reading. Your degree is not the primary barrier to a change in employment. You are in much greater control of your life than you seem to think.
BernardShakey
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by BernardShakey »

whodidntante wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:29 pm I always thought it would be fun to just sort of dial back on my job performance while still covering the basics. Continue to say the right things, and give no outward signs that you've checked out. Then live a happier, more balanced life until they get tired of you. Perhaps there would be severance. :twisted:
It is fun :wink:
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by investnoob »

My job is not boring.

But I am "bored of work."

I feel like there is a distinction there. And you put it a similar way.

I've been working 25 years and I am having a hard time imagining how to get out of the "bored of work" phase.

A lot of the advice, including the advice I'm seeing here, boils down to "find meaning." If it can't be found in your current job, find another one where you can find meaning.

I think at this point I'd have to change roles every 6 months to make that happen. I probably am not creative/imaginative enough to find meaning in most jobs. At this point, I think "find meaning" in your job really means "create meaning where you don't see it/or where it doesn't exist."
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BrooklynInvest
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by BrooklynInvest »

ThankYouJack wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:23 pm ....any job 40+ hours a week behind a computer isn't what I want as I get closer to financial independence.

Yes!

Got laid off from a stunningly hostile work environment. Am consulting part time at a fraction of my income but haven't been yelled at once in 4 months - a huuuuuuuge improvement. I liked what I do - financial marketing (don't judge!) but was never comfortable working in toxic environments. Go figure.

I make enough to cover my expenses (also have rental income) so 6 months after being laid off I've actually got more money in my cash account than I had at the beginning of "unemployment." And the emotional factor - I spent 30 years saving and investing. It was difficult for me to transition to decumulation... but I haven't had to!

One thing - even lower paying jobs can be stressful. Different stress perhaps but not without stress. Have been watching "Joe Pickett" so I know for a fact that game warden is a dangerous gig ;-)
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by bogledogle »

BernardShakey wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:17 pm
whodidntante wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:29 pm I always thought it would be fun to just sort of dial back on my job performance while still covering the basics. Continue to say the right things, and give no outward signs that you've checked out. Then live a happier, more balanced life until they get tired of you. Perhaps there would be severance. :twisted:
It is fun :wink:
+1

This is my advice to anyone who has run into burn out. Just do enough and say "no" to more work and "stretching" yourself.
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by BernardShakey »

Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:33 am
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:17 am
Apathizer wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:10 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:05 pm
Apathizer wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:04 pm
Trade-offs and mistakes. Though my mistakes weren't terrible, I wish had taken a more practical educations path. I have a BA, but that's not very useful unfortunately.
I learned mid-career that it's never too late to get more education.
Again, times are different now. Educations was more affordable then. I don't want to borrow significant money, so if I go back it will probably be community college (or whatever the preferred term is now).
You keep coming up with reasons not to do something. That's your choice to make.
Reality is different for every generation and every person. Those who grew up in the 70s had more ample access to affordable education, esp in states like CA. That's not the reality today. Today prospective students are likely to incur significant debt, which means they have less flexibility to pursue interests that might be impractical. If they borrow significantly for an impractical education they become mired in significant debt that hinders them for many years; sometimes decades.

That's the reality many people face today. It's important to think carefully when considering significant financial options such as borrowing money and educational paths. In the past most people could get a bachelors degree affordably, without incur massive debt; that's no longer reality.
There is some truth to this, but it's not as significant as you think.

In the very early 1980s, an Engineering degree at a University of CA campus ran about $27k for four years (tuition plus books, R&B, etc.). An engineer coming out in that timeframe with BS degree could expect to make somewhere in the $24-28k range annually depending on the industry. So, first year gross was roughly approximate to cost of degree.

Fast forward about 40 years....that same degree at a UC campus is about $115k (slightly variable by location) and I think the starting salaries in comparable industries (excl. the uber high Silicon Valley) are about $80-95k. So, yeah, it's not quite as equitable now but it's not as bad as you think.

The disparity can be mitigated by getting one's degree at a California State University where four years with R&B runs closer to maybe $100k. The key, as stated by others, is getting a degree in something marketable. Or going back to get such a degree later.
An important key to investing is having a well-calibrated sense of your future regret.
Apathizer
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by Apathizer »

fortunefavored wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:52 pm When I mentor people like Apathizer, I always ask about:

Capability - do you frankly have the inherent skills/intelligence to take on a new role/challenge/job?
Capacity - do you have the bandwidth to do the things that are required to get there? If you're working 60/hours week.. probably not.
Desire - how badly do you desire what your goal is? "I'm bored" is rarely sufficient.
Consequences - are you prepared for what might happen? Not being able to find a job that pays the bills, neglecting your current job to free up the capacity to pursue the new one and risking layoff, going into debt for training/education, etc.

For the vast majority of mid-late career people, these are all big fat "no ways." Even "capability" is a stretch for very smart people as we all get dumber and slower once we get into our 40s.

Sure, you CAN do anything you want, that's life - you can even choose to be homeless and pick up panhandling. But it doesn't make it a good choice.
Exactly. The idea that you can do whatever you want is really just crap. At a certain point in life your options become severely limited.
onourway wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:06 pmI think that you could benefit greatly by talking to a therapist, career coach, and some motivational reading. Your degree is not the primary barrier to a change in employment. You are in much greater control of your life than you seem to think.
Complete and utter crap. In reality we don't have nearly so much control of our lives as we're inclined to think. Besides, eventually we're all dead and nothing matter anyway.
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kiwi123
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by kiwi123 »

bogledogle wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:38 pm
BernardShakey wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:17 pm
whodidntante wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:29 pm I always thought it would be fun to just sort of dial back on my job performance while still covering the basics. Continue to say the right things, and give no outward signs that you've checked out. Then live a happier, more balanced life until they get tired of you. Perhaps there would be severance. :twisted:
It is fun :wink:
+1

This is my advice to anyone who has run into burn out. Just do enough and say "no" to more work and "stretching" yourself.
+2
But for me it was only possible once i had hit my number and FIRE'd. Until then stupid things like working harder to get an extra 20% bonus actually motivated me (or dealing with horrible bosses to avoid losing my job). Now my effectively hourly wage is probably 50-100% higher.
BernardShakey
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by BernardShakey »

kiwi123 wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:30 pm
bogledogle wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:38 pm
BernardShakey wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:17 pm
whodidntante wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:29 pm I always thought it would be fun to just sort of dial back on my job performance while still covering the basics. Continue to say the right things, and give no outward signs that you've checked out. Then live a happier, more balanced life until they get tired of you. Perhaps there would be severance. :twisted:
It is fun :wink:
+1

This is my advice to anyone who has run into burn out. Just do enough and say "no" to more work and "stretching" yourself.
+2
But for me it was only possible once i had hit my number and FIRE'd. Until then stupid things like working harder to get an extra 20% bonus actually motivated me (or dealing with horrible bosses to avoid losing my job). Now my effectively hourly wage is probably 50-100% higher.
I remember early in my career, all the very senior guys (and they were almost all guys) ---- were "retired on the job" or "retired in place". They left work at ~3:45pm regardless of what was going on. Little longer lunches, never showed up on Saturdays when things were busy and demanding. I always wondered what their deal was.....now I get it :D
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rascott
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by rascott »

ThankYouJack wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:23 pm I don't think I have burnout but after about 20 years of work behind a computer, I'm getting bored/tired with it. Part of the reason is because the project I'm working on isn't feasible with the team that's in place and it's crawling along. I could look to switch jobs but currently feeling that any job 40+ hours a week behind a computer isn't what I want as I get closer to financial independence.

I typically feel happiest with people and/or outdoors, pushing myself physically and mentally. I don't think I'm ready to leave a lot of money on the table, but part of me is thinking about semi-FIREing to something part-time like a Park Ranger or some physical work.

I also realize this is exacerbated with the pandemic and we've been hunkering down a decent amount and not getting out like we usually do.

Anyway, just looking for words of wisdom.

Anyone feel similar?

Start a landscaping company.
scb175
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by scb175 »

Seek out your nearest golf course. Find the maintenance shop and ask for the superintendent. They are so desperate right now to find help. You could make your own schedule, but most important work is completed in the early mornings. 3-4 hrs then head home, especially a weekend gig. Mow greens, rake sand traps, set up course play, etc. Trust me, they will be glad to see someone with any kind of motivation and dependability. Msg me for any help or contacts.
onourway
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by onourway »

Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:45 pm
fortunefavored wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:52 pm When I mentor people like Apathizer, I always ask about:

Capability - do you frankly have the inherent skills/intelligence to take on a new role/challenge/job?
Capacity - do you have the bandwidth to do the things that are required to get there? If you're working 60/hours week.. probably not.
Desire - how badly do you desire what your goal is? "I'm bored" is rarely sufficient.
Consequences - are you prepared for what might happen? Not being able to find a job that pays the bills, neglecting your current job to free up the capacity to pursue the new one and risking layoff, going into debt for training/education, etc.

For the vast majority of mid-late career people, these are all big fat "no ways." Even "capability" is a stretch for very smart people as we all get dumber and slower once we get into our 40s.

Sure, you CAN do anything you want, that's life - you can even choose to be homeless and pick up panhandling. But it doesn't make it a good choice.
Exactly. The idea that you can do whatever you want is really just crap. At a certain point in life your options become severely limited.
onourway wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:06 pmI think that you could benefit greatly by talking to a therapist, career coach, and some motivational reading. Your degree is not the primary barrier to a change in employment. You are in much greater control of your life than you seem to think.
Complete and utter crap. In reality we don't have nearly so much control of our lives as we're inclined to think. Besides, eventually we're all dead and nothing matter anyway.
You may believe it is complete and utter crap, but if you are in the position to be college educated and have found this forum, it's almost certainly more true than not that you are largely in control of your own life. Many of us here know this intuitively as we have repeatedly applied these methods to achieve life and personal goals across a wide spectrum of activities and personal experience.

The fact that you have a psychology BA yet find such statements so reactionary is a strong indication you've hit the nail on the head in choosing your username. Any further discussion on this topic is bound to veer towards medical advice that is quickly off limits, so I will wish you the best and leave it at that. :beer
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JoeRetire
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by JoeRetire »

investnoob wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:41 pm I've been working 25 years and I am having a hard time imagining how to get out of the "bored of work" phase.
Other than imagining, what have you tried so far?

Sounds like the "mid life crisis" period. Many people in this stage buy things out of boredom.
Last edited by JoeRetire on Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by JoeRetire »

Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:45 pmIn reality we don't have nearly so much control of our lives as we're inclined to think.
If you believe you have no control over your life, then you are certainly correct. Some choose to think otherwise.
Besides, eventually we're all dead and nothing matter anyway.
While true, I feel that's a poor motivator for most folks.
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Cobra Commander
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by Cobra Commander »

I suppose I am somewhat "bored out" with work. I have approached the topic of getting a detail to try something new but my supervisor told me that my division is blocking all details indefinitely. We are exceptionally busy right now in some part due to reasons related to COVID but also because they failed to replace people that were leaving for the last four years so now we have an influx of new people and a shortage of experienced people. I have looked for other jobs within my agency but what each group does is fairly specialized and they want hires with experience in that area of law so I have not seen anything that I would qualify for yet.

I think about my options a lot but unfortunately none of them are really viable at this stage of my life with little kids, particularly with the daycares closing so frequently. I could probably double or triple my salary at a firm but I have done that before and I have no desire to work 60-80 hours per week and I'm not sure if I have the stamina to do that again not to mention the frequent COVID-related daycare closures.

I try to focus on the positives of my situation. My boss is great and she gives me glowing reviews and I even got two bonuses last year. She is super flexible and understands the child care situation and I can work some funky schedules to get my hours in. While I could get paid more in private practice I make enough and my wants/needs are fairly simple so we are able to save a lot of money too. We have the option of having every other Friday off and working a little more the other days and I think I am going to try out that schedule and just make that Friday a day for me. I think having that extra day by myself to recharge without work or childcare will make a difference. I also have job security which is something very valuable to me and at some point things will slow down and be more manageable. At the end of the day there are a lot worse things than being bored at work so that's where I come out on this.
MathWizard
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by MathWizard »

BernardShakey wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:30 pm
Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:33 am
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:17 am
Apathizer wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:10 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:05 pm
I learned mid-career that it's never too late to get more education.
Again, times are different now. Educations was more affordable then. I don't want to borrow significant money, so if I go back it will probably be community college (or whatever the preferred term is now).
You keep coming up with reasons not to do something. That's your choice to make.
Reality is different for every generation and every person. Those who grew up in the 70s had more ample access to affordable education, esp in states like CA. That's not the reality today. Today prospective students are likely to incur significant debt, which means they have less flexibility to pursue interests that might be impractical. If they borrow significantly for an impractical education they become mired in significant debt that hinders them for many years; sometimes decades.

That's the reality many people face today. It's important to think carefully when considering significant financial options such as borrowing money and educational paths. In the past most people could get a bachelors degree affordably, without incur massive debt; that's no longer reality.
There is some truth to this, but it's not as significant as you think.

In the very early 1980s, an Engineering degree at a University of CA campus ran about $27k for four years (tuition plus books, R&B, etc.). An engineer coming out in that timeframe with BS degree could expect to make somewhere in the $24-28k range annually depending on the industry. So, first year gross was roughly approximate to cost of degree.

Fast forward about 40 years....that same degree at a UC campus is about $115k (slightly variable by location) and I think the starting salaries in comparable industries (excl. the uber high Silicon Valley) are about $80-95k. So, yeah, it's not quite as equitable now but it's not as bad as you think.

The disparity can be mitigated by getting one's degree at a California State University where four years with R&B runs closer to maybe $100k. The key, as stated by others, is getting a degree in something marketable. Or going back to get such a degree later.
Not as good in the Midwest.

Comparing my son and I. Both received full tuition scholarships as National Merit Finalists, and went into Engineering. Me in 1980, my son in 2017. My son had finished his Engineering math requirements before graduating HS.

Total cost of attendance, both land grant universities, was $2K/yr for me, $20K for him.

I was offered a starting salary of 25.5K. His starting salary was $35K, and he has now worked his way up to $44K.

My 25.5 offer would have been worth about $68K in 2017 dollars.

I have ideas of what is driving this, but they are both economic and political, so I won't post them.

I do agree that the Op has little choice but to suck it up and provide for the family. I had to do that many times in my career, and other people had it worse.

Yes, life isn't fair, but one needs to deal with circumstances as they are.
Apathizer
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by Apathizer »

JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:16 amIf you believe you have no control over your life, then you are certainly correct. Some choose to think otherwise.
My background is psychology and behavior science. Most humans are emotionally inclined to harbor scientifically erroneous beliefs. One such beliefs is believing one has more control and agency of how their life transpires when actually we don't. Numerous factors we're usually unaware of direct us in life.

Consider how human life progresses. First there's biology. We have no control over our genotype, nor embryonic and early childhood environment, which influences how genes are expressed, determining phenotype. As children we have very little control over what happens to us during the first several years of life, which critically influences who we eventually become as adults.

As adults we think we're in control, but the control we have is limited. Neuroscience shows humans arrive at decisions pre-consciously. That is a we reach a decision before we're aware of it, so the the concept of freewill is largely illusory. We're experiencing the process of biology and mostly we're just along for the ride since the control we have is limited.
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stoptothink
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by stoptothink »

MathWizard wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:20 am
BernardShakey wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:30 pm
Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:33 am
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:17 am
Apathizer wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:10 pm
Again, times are different now. Educations was more affordable then. I don't want to borrow significant money, so if I go back it will probably be community college (or whatever the preferred term is now).
You keep coming up with reasons not to do something. That's your choice to make.
Reality is different for every generation and every person. Those who grew up in the 70s had more ample access to affordable education, esp in states like CA. That's not the reality today. Today prospective students are likely to incur significant debt, which means they have less flexibility to pursue interests that might be impractical. If they borrow significantly for an impractical education they become mired in significant debt that hinders them for many years; sometimes decades.

That's the reality many people face today. It's important to think carefully when considering significant financial options such as borrowing money and educational paths. In the past most people could get a bachelors degree affordably, without incur massive debt; that's no longer reality.
There is some truth to this, but it's not as significant as you think.

In the very early 1980s, an Engineering degree at a University of CA campus ran about $27k for four years (tuition plus books, R&B, etc.). An engineer coming out in that timeframe with BS degree could expect to make somewhere in the $24-28k range annually depending on the industry. So, first year gross was roughly approximate to cost of degree.

Fast forward about 40 years....that same degree at a UC campus is about $115k (slightly variable by location) and I think the starting salaries in comparable industries (excl. the uber high Silicon Valley) are about $80-95k. So, yeah, it's not quite as equitable now but it's not as bad as you think.

The disparity can be mitigated by getting one's degree at a California State University where four years with R&B runs closer to maybe $100k. The key, as stated by others, is getting a degree in something marketable. Or going back to get such a degree later.
Not as good in the Midwest.

Comparing my son and I. Both received full tuition scholarships as National Merit Finalists, and went into Engineering. Me in 1980, my son in 2017. My son had finished his Engineering math requirements before graduating HS.

Total cost of attendance, both land grant universities, was $2K/yr for me, $20K for him.

I was offered a starting salary of 25.5K. His starting salary was $35K, and he has now worked his way up to $44K.

My 25.5 offer would have been worth about $68K in 2017 dollars.

I have ideas of what is driving this, but they are both economic and political, so I won't post them.

I do agree that the Op has little choice but to suck it up and provide for the family. I had to do that many times in my career, and other people had it worse.

Yes, life isn't fair, but one needs to deal with circumstances as they are.
Your son, a national merit finalist with an engineering degree, couldn't find a starting job paying more than $35k upon graduation? It's not like I'm living in the Bay Area and I have been accused on this board of lying about how low my compensation is for my education/experience/position, but working fast food pays that (or more) around here (Utah). Starting pay in my employer's call center, which requires no education or prior experience, is ~$35k/yr.
stoptothink
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by stoptothink »

Apathizer wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:13 am
JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:16 amIf you believe you have no control over your life, then you are certainly correct. Some choose to think otherwise.
My background is psychology and behavior science. Most humans are emotionally inclined to harbor scientifically erroneous beliefs. One such beliefs is believing one has more control and agency of how their life transpires when actually we don't. Numerous factors we're usually unaware of direct us in life.

Consider how human life progresses. First there's biology. We have no control over our genotype, nor embryonic and early childhood environment, which influences how genes are expressed, determining phenotype. As children we have very little control over what happens to us during the first several years of life, which critically influences who we eventually become as adults.

As adults we think we're in control, but the control we have is limited. Neuroscience shows humans arrive at decisions pre-consciously. That is a we reach a decision before we're aware of it, so the the concept of freewill is largely illusory. We're experiencing the process of biology and mostly we're just along for the ride since the control we have is limited.
While there is some truth to this, it has little to nothing to do with what you are complaining about in this thread. You happened to choose a field of study that has few (and not well-paying) job prospects without advanced degrees and professional training. You had 100% control over that.

I have a brilliant sister who has degrees (in fields with real world job prospects similar to psychology) from Brown, Oxford, and NYU. She sounded exactly like you for years, then decided that maybe she should stop trying to find her passion in education/career and develop a skill with value in the corporate world. She had almost no experience with coding, but went to a coding bootcamp - yes, one of those cheap, cheesy bootcamps - and within a few weeks of completing had multiple offers for several times more than she had ever made. It's been about 6 months and she's now making low 6-figures and is like a totally different person. She made a choice to take control of her own life - you can too.
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by an_asker »

stoptothink wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:14 am
MathWizard wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:20 am [...]
Not as good in the Midwest.

Comparing my son and I. Both received full tuition scholarships as National Merit Finalists, and went into Engineering. Me in 1980, my son in 2017. My son had finished his Engineering math requirements before graduating HS.

Total cost of attendance, both land grant universities, was $2K/yr for me, $20K for him.

I was offered a starting salary of 25.5K. His starting salary was $35K, and he has now worked his way up to $44K.

My 25.5 offer would have been worth about $68K in 2017 dollars.

I have ideas of what is driving this, but they are both economic and political, so I won't post them.

I do agree that the Op has little choice but to suck it up and provide for the family. I had to do that many times in my career, and other people had it worse.

Yes, life isn't fair, but one needs to deal with circumstances as they are.
Your son, a national merit finalist with an engineering degree, couldn't find a starting job paying more than $35k upon graduation? It's not like I'm living in the Bay Area and I have been accused on this board of lying about how low my compensation is for my education/experience/position, but working fast food pays that (or more) around here (Utah). Starting pay in my employer's call center, which requires no education or prior experience, is ~$35k/yr.
+1! I'm really surprised.

MathWizard: Which school did your son go to and what branch of engineering did he pick?

PS: I suggest that he does exactly what stoptothink's sister did - go to one of those no name coding schools and get a six-figure (starting) job.
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by investnoob »

JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:12 am
investnoob wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:41 pm I've been working 25 years and I am having a hard time imagining how to get out of the "bored of work" phase.
Other than imagining, what have you tried so far?

Sounds like the "mid life crisis" period. Many people in this stage buy things out of boredom.
I left an old org where I had been employed for 20 years (had 5 or 6 positions there over the years).

I started a new gig at a new organization. I am about 20 months into it. I found the first 6 months pretty refreshing, but then it just became work again. I don't know that I have it in me to look for another job so soon (especially when I am pretty sure the same thing will happen). I think it is mainly due to where I am at in life (my new org and team have been very good to/for me). Working was just more tolerable in my 20s as everything was so new.

A lot of the reasons why people seem to enjoy their work don't seem to relate to the actual work itself, but to the circumstances around it. People like problem solving or taking on challenges. I like that too, but I'm at the point where I'd rather do that in an environment that is not "work." Don't need a career/job to do any of that. Can do that outside of work.
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by Devil's Advocate »

Apathizer wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:13 am
JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:16 amIf you believe you have no control over your life, then you are certainly correct. Some choose to think otherwise.
My background is psychology and behavior science. Most humans are emotionally inclined to harbor scientifically erroneous beliefs. One such beliefs is believing one has more control and agency of how their life transpires when actually we don't. Numerous factors we're usually unaware of direct us in life.

Consider how human life progresses. First there's biology. We have no control over our genotype, nor embryonic and early childhood environment, which influences how genes are expressed, determining phenotype. As children we have very little control over what happens to us during the first several years of life, which critically influences who we eventually become as adults.

As adults we think we're in control, but the control we have is limited. Neuroscience shows humans arrive at decisions pre-consciously. That is a we reach a decision before we're aware of it, so the the concept of freewill is largely illusory. We're experiencing the process of biology and mostly we're just along for the ride since the control we have is limited.
I attempted to be diplomatic before, now I'll speak bluntly. You have a victim mentality and until you can get over that you will continue to suffer.

DA
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JoeRetire
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by JoeRetire »

Apathizer wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:13 am
JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:16 amIf you believe you have no control over your life, then you are certainly correct. Some choose to think otherwise.
My background is psychology and behavior science. Most humans are emotionally inclined to harbor scientifically erroneous beliefs. One such beliefs is believing one has more control and agency of how their life transpires when actually we don't. Numerous factors we're usually unaware of direct us in life.

Consider how human life progresses. First there's biology. We have no control over our genotype, nor embryonic and early childhood environment, which influences how genes are expressed, determining phenotype. As children we have very little control over what happens to us during the first several years of life, which critically influences who we eventually become as adults.

As adults we think we're in control, but the control we have is limited. Neuroscience shows humans arrive at decisions pre-consciously. That is a we reach a decision before we're aware of it, so the the concept of freewill is largely illusory. We're experiencing the process of biology and mostly we're just along for the ride since the control we have is limited.
(shrug) I tried. I wish you well.
I'm glad I chose not to be bored for 30 years.
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MathWizard
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by MathWizard »

stoptothink wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:14 am
MathWizard wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:20 am
BernardShakey wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:30 pm
Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:33 am
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:17 am

You keep coming up with reasons not to do something. That's your choice to make.
Reality is different for every generation and every person. Those who grew up in the 70s had more ample access to affordable education, esp in states like CA. That's not the reality today. Today prospective students are likely to incur significant debt, which means they have less flexibility to pursue interests that might be impractical. If they borrow significantly for an impractical education they become mired in significant debt that hinders them for many years; sometimes decades.

That's the reality many people face today. It's important to think carefully when considering significant financial options such as borrowing money and educational paths. In the past most people could get a bachelors degree affordably, without incur massive debt; that's no longer reality.
There is some truth to this, but it's not as significant as you think.

In the very early 1980s, an Engineering degree at a University of CA campus ran about $27k for four years (tuition plus books, R&B, etc.). An engineer coming out in that timeframe with BS degree could expect to make somewhere in the $24-28k range annually depending on the industry. So, first year gross was roughly approximate to cost of degree.

Fast forward about 40 years....that same degree at a UC campus is about $115k (slightly variable by location) and I think the starting salaries in comparable industries (excl. the uber high Silicon Valley) are about $80-95k. So, yeah, it's not quite as equitable now but it's not as bad as you think.

The disparity can be mitigated by getting one's degree at a California State University where four years with R&B runs closer to maybe $100k. The key, as stated by others, is getting a degree in something marketable. Or going back to get such a degree later.
Not as good in the Midwest.

Comparing my son and I. Both received full tuition scholarships as National Merit Finalists, and went into Engineering. Me in 1980, my son in 2017. My son had finished his Engineering math requirements before graduating HS.

Total cost of attendance, both land grant universities, was $2K/yr for me, $20K for him.

I was offered a starting salary of 25.5K. His starting salary was $35K, and he has now worked his way up to $44K.

My 25.5 offer would have been worth about $68K in 2017 dollars.

I have ideas of what is driving this, but they are both economic and political, so I won't post them.

I do agree that the Op has little choice but to suck it up and provide for the family. I had to do that many times in my career, and other people had it worse.

Yes, life isn't fair, but one needs to deal with circumstances as they are.
Your son, a national merit finalist with an engineering degree, couldn't find a starting job paying more than $35k upon graduation? It's not like I'm living in the Bay Area and I have been accused on this board of lying about how low my compensation is for my education/experience/position, but working fast food pays that (or more) around here (Utah). Starting pay in my employer's call center, which requires no education or prior experience, is ~$35k/yr.
I was surprised as well, but the midwest does not pay very well for these kinds of positions.
That is why we have such a brain drain to the coasts.

I have a nephew who graduated in 2006, with a BS in Comp. Sci. , also a national merit finalist. He could not find work for a year.
In his third startup, and making so much that he won't tell anyone anymore. About 5 years out, it was north of $150K, and in the midwest.

My son does not want to move far away, and does not want to work in the oil and gas industry (which is where I got my best offer).
I think the not moving far away is related to his girlfriend of many years. After my wife and I married we had to move 8 hours away where
I could find work. I also stayed in the midwest, but paid for it in lower salary.

I'm not complaining, it was all my choice, but an informed choice.
absolutelybillsmood
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by absolutelybillsmood »

I don't know exactly what you do/qualify to do/expect to earn but, small colleges and universities will often hire people with liberal arts degrees for various professional staff roles. Due to lower pay (and sometimes lousy benefits) compared to larger employers they don't always expect much prior experience in a specific role. They will also give you free tuition on courses/degrees they offer after a certain number of months/years of service. Sometimes government jobs can work the same way. Some of us started second careers this way when we couldn't afford the more traditional routes. You can get experience and education while receiving a paycheck.
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by srt7 »

N.Y.Cab wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:31 pm
gatorking wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:26 pm If you have access to NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/19/well ... shing.html
There’s a TED Talks video by the author, Adam Grant, on YouTube: https://youtu.be/a3zPgyvCiJI
Adam Grant's TED talk was good. Thank you!
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by Elsebet »

Wannaretireearly wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:58 am Yes! I feel the same after 20+ consecutive years behind a computer.
I yearn/ dream to help people directly somehow. Not interface with a computer all day. Ironically, I may need more actual time during the day to make a transition like this. I’m lucky my day is quite short and I’m able to run around with the kids at the moment (school, sports etc).
Same. I'm in IT and I have very little impact on anything on a day to day basis. Over the year sure I get things done but everything takes a long time to get done at my company. For example I put a simple request in last October and it was just completed this week. On days I accomplish something I am happy but on days where I just make incremental/no progress (which outnumber the accomplishment days) it feels like I was useless. Sure I may learn something on those days or have some other intangible progress but there's nothing I can clearly point at and be proud of.

I dream about a job where I can get something done every day and be proud of my efficiency, but I doubt this exists. I was thinking of a job in an airport to help sick/eldery people get to their gates might be the closest thing I can think of. By the time I retire in 10 years that might be automated anyway. :)
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BernardShakey
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by BernardShakey »

MathWizard wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:20 am
BernardShakey wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:30 pm
Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:33 am
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:17 am
Apathizer wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:10 pm
Again, times are different now. Educations was more affordable then. I don't want to borrow significant money, so if I go back it will probably be community college (or whatever the preferred term is now).
You keep coming up with reasons not to do something. That's your choice to make.
Reality is different for every generation and every person. Those who grew up in the 70s had more ample access to affordable education, esp in states like CA. That's not the reality today. Today prospective students are likely to incur significant debt, which means they have less flexibility to pursue interests that might be impractical. If they borrow significantly for an impractical education they become mired in significant debt that hinders them for many years; sometimes decades.

That's the reality many people face today. It's important to think carefully when considering significant financial options such as borrowing money and educational paths. In the past most people could get a bachelors degree affordably, without incur massive debt; that's no longer reality.
There is some truth to this, but it's not as significant as you think.

In the very early 1980s, an Engineering degree at a University of CA campus ran about $27k for four years (tuition plus books, R&B, etc.). An engineer coming out in that timeframe with BS degree could expect to make somewhere in the $24-28k range annually depending on the industry. So, first year gross was roughly approximate to cost of degree.

Fast forward about 40 years....that same degree at a UC campus is about $115k (slightly variable by location) and I think the starting salaries in comparable industries (excl. the uber high Silicon Valley) are about $80-95k. So, yeah, it's not quite as equitable now but it's not as bad as you think.

The disparity can be mitigated by getting one's degree at a California State University where four years with R&B runs closer to maybe $100k. The key, as stated by others, is getting a degree in something marketable. Or going back to get such a degree later.
Not as good in the Midwest.

Comparing my son and I. Both received full tuition scholarships as National Merit Finalists, and went into Engineering. Me in 1980, my son in 2017. My son had finished his Engineering math requirements before graduating HS.

Total cost of attendance, both land grant universities, was $2K/yr for me, $20K for him.

I was offered a starting salary of 25.5K. His starting salary was $35K, and he has now worked his way up to $44K.

My 25.5 offer would have been worth about $68K in 2017 dollars.

I have ideas of what is driving this, but they are both economic and political, so I won't post them.

I do agree that the Op has little choice but to suck it up and provide for the family. I had to do that many times in my career, and other people had it worse.

Yes, life isn't fair, but one needs to deal with circumstances as they are.
Interesting. But what would full tuition, room and board, have been for your son if no scholarships ? How does that compare with his starting salary?

In CA, based on limited data I provided, in terms of gross pay it now takes about 15-18 months of full time Engineering employment at a big industrial firm to pay the four year college expenses (UC school). Back in the early 80's it was more like 12-14 months.
An important key to investing is having a well-calibrated sense of your future regret.
MathWizard
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by MathWizard »

BernardShakey wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:27 pm
MathWizard wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:20 am
BernardShakey wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:30 pm
Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:33 am
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:17 am

You keep coming up with reasons not to do something. That's your choice to make.
Reality is different for every generation and every person. Those who grew up in the 70s had more ample access to affordable education, esp in states like CA. That's not the reality today. Today prospective students are likely to incur significant debt, which means they have less flexibility to pursue interests that might be impractical. If they borrow significantly for an impractical education they become mired in significant debt that hinders them for many years; sometimes decades.

That's the reality many people face today. It's important to think carefully when considering significant financial options such as borrowing money and educational paths. In the past most people could get a bachelors degree affordably, without incur massive debt; that's no longer reality.
There is some truth to this, but it's not as significant as you think.

In the very early 1980s, an Engineering degree at a University of CA campus ran about $27k for four years (tuition plus books, R&B, etc.). An engineer coming out in that timeframe with BS degree could expect to make somewhere in the $24-28k range annually depending on the industry. So, first year gross was roughly approximate to cost of degree.

Fast forward about 40 years....that same degree at a UC campus is about $115k (slightly variable by location) and I think the starting salaries in comparable industries (excl. the uber high Silicon Valley) are about $80-95k. So, yeah, it's not quite as equitable now but it's not as bad as you think.

The disparity can be mitigated by getting one's degree at a California State University where four years with R&B runs closer to maybe $100k. The key, as stated by others, is getting a degree in something marketable. Or going back to get such a degree later.
Not as good in the Midwest.

Comparing my son and I. Both received full tuition scholarships as National Merit Finalists, and went into Engineering. Me in 1980, my son in 2017. My son had finished his Engineering math requirements before graduating HS.

Total cost of attendance, both land grant universities, was $2K/yr for me, $20K for him.

I was offered a starting salary of 25.5K. His starting salary was $35K, and he has now worked his way up to $44K.

My 25.5 offer would have been worth about $68K in 2017 dollars.

I have ideas of what is driving this, but they are both economic and political, so I won't post them.

I do agree that the Op has little choice but to suck it up and provide for the family. I had to do that many times in my career, and other people had it worse.

Yes, life isn't fair, but one needs to deal with circumstances as they are.
Interesting. But what would full tuition, room and board, have been for your son if no scholarships ? How does that compare with his starting salary?

In CA, based on limited data I provided, in terms of gross pay it now takes about 15-18 months of full time Engineering employment at a big industrial firm to pay the four year college expenses (UC school). Back in the early 80's it was more like 12-14 months.
Cost of attendance is provided by the school. That is $20K without scholarships.
About half was tuition, we paid the other half.

So for him, had he paid full freight without help from us (I don't know how he could), 4 years at 20K is $80K. That means
about 27 months of gross pay. But you only get to spend net pay, whatever that would be, and if the money was borrowed,
interest makes that longer, plus you have to eat, and house yourself.

For me, had I taken the $25.5K job, $8K ( 4 years at $2K/yr) would be about 4 months of gross pay.

With the scholarship, I was able to augment with good wages from summer heavy construction jobs. Hard and dangerous work,
but it paid well. Jobs available for my son were all 40 hour minimum wage. There is no way they could have paid for college on their own.
Even subsidized student loans are limited to amounts that will not pay for college.

Education was my way out of poverty. I think that it still is, but the financial gains from college are not what they used to be,
even for engineering degrees. The other issue is that you are putting out money for a job that might be there when you
graduate. Many graduates don't end up in their chosen field. I'm in computing, when I started out in Engineering, and
ended up with a PhD in math.
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by Darwin »

fortunefavored wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:40 pm
ThankYouJack wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:23 pm I don't think I have burnout but after about 20 years of work behind a computer, I'm getting bored/tired with it. Part of the reason is because the project I'm working on isn't feasible with the team that's in place and it's crawling along. I could look to switch jobs but currently feeling that any job 40+ hours a week behind a computer isn't what I want as I get closer to financial independence.

I typically feel happiest with people and/or outdoors, pushing myself physically and mentally. I don't think I'm ready to leave a lot of money on the table, but part of me is thinking about semi-FIREing to something part-time like a Park Ranger or some physical work.

I also realize this is exacerbated with the pandemic and we've been hunkering down a decent amount and not getting out like we usually do.

Anyway, just looking for words of wisdom.

Anyone feel similar?
This comes up in many threads, so you are definitely not alone. I went through the same thought process too a few years ago. The short unpleasant answer is: suck it up and hit your number.. anything else is going to be worse for way less money. You'll save 10X the money in 1 year at your "real" job than any other job.

Park Ranger jobs are almost impossible to get (often requires a 4 year ecology related degree PLUS law enforcement training.) Even unpaid park docent roles are in high demand. The idea there's a low stress, "fun" job is semi-mythical. Sure it happens.. but the odds are minute.
I have one of those "fun" jobs! Field Biologist for the Forest Service. Several factoids:
-Actual Park/Forest Service Rangers don't get outside much
-The pay is underwhelming compared to the private sector
-Even when you spend most of your time outdoors like me, it's still possible to burn out.

I really have enjoyed my job, but after 28 years of climbing mountains the hard way (cross-country) the idea of retirement is alluring. So... I suppose any job is still a job, and if you do the same one for long enough it can become tedious. Maybe a better scheme would be to pull back into a less time-consuming version of what you're doing and then get outside more? I know, easier said than done!
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BernardShakey
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by BernardShakey »

MathWizard wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:01 pm
BernardShakey wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:27 pm
MathWizard wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:20 am
BernardShakey wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:30 pm
Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:33 am
Reality is different for every generation and every person. Those who grew up in the 70s had more ample access to affordable education, esp in states like CA. That's not the reality today. Today prospective students are likely to incur significant debt, which means they have less flexibility to pursue interests that might be impractical. If they borrow significantly for an impractical education they become mired in significant debt that hinders them for many years; sometimes decades.

That's the reality many people face today. It's important to think carefully when considering significant financial options such as borrowing money and educational paths. In the past most people could get a bachelors degree affordably, without incur massive debt; that's no longer reality.
There is some truth to this, but it's not as significant as you think.

In the very early 1980s, an Engineering degree at a University of CA campus ran about $27k for four years (tuition plus books, R&B, etc.). An engineer coming out in that timeframe with BS degree could expect to make somewhere in the $24-28k range annually depending on the industry. So, first year gross was roughly approximate to cost of degree.

Fast forward about 40 years....that same degree at a UC campus is about $115k (slightly variable by location) and I think the starting salaries in comparable industries (excl. the uber high Silicon Valley) are about $80-95k. So, yeah, it's not quite as equitable now but it's not as bad as you think.

The disparity can be mitigated by getting one's degree at a California State University where four years with R&B runs closer to maybe $100k. The key, as stated by others, is getting a degree in something marketable. Or going back to get such a degree later.
Not as good in the Midwest.

Comparing my son and I. Both received full tuition scholarships as National Merit Finalists, and went into Engineering. Me in 1980, my son in 2017. My son had finished his Engineering math requirements before graduating HS.

Total cost of attendance, both land grant universities, was $2K/yr for me, $20K for him.

I was offered a starting salary of 25.5K. His starting salary was $35K, and he has now worked his way up to $44K.

My 25.5 offer would have been worth about $68K in 2017 dollars.

I have ideas of what is driving this, but they are both economic and political, so I won't post them.

I do agree that the Op has little choice but to suck it up and provide for the family. I had to do that many times in my career, and other people had it worse.

Yes, life isn't fair, but one needs to deal with circumstances as they are.
Interesting. But what would full tuition, room and board, have been for your son if no scholarships ? How does that compare with his starting salary?

In CA, based on limited data I provided, in terms of gross pay it now takes about 15-18 months of full time Engineering employment at a big industrial firm to pay the four year college expenses (UC school). Back in the early 80's it was more like 12-14 months.
Cost of attendance is provided by the school. That is $20K without scholarships.
About half was tuition, we paid the other half.

So for him, had he paid full freight without help from us (I don't know how he could), 4 years at 20K is $80K. That means
about 27 months of gross pay. But you only get to spend net pay, whatever that would be, and if the money was borrowed,
interest makes that longer, plus you have to eat, and house yourself.

For me, had I taken the $25.5K job, $8K ( 4 years at $2K/yr) would be about 4 months of gross pay.

With the scholarship, I was able to augment with good wages from summer heavy construction jobs. Hard and dangerous work,
but it paid well. Jobs available for my son were all 40 hour minimum wage. There is no way they could have paid for college on their own.
Even subsidized student loans are limited to amounts that will not pay for college.

Education was my way out of poverty. I think that it still is, but the financial gains from college are not what they used to be,
even for engineering degrees. The other issue is that you are putting out money for a job that might be there when you
graduate. Many graduates don't end up in their chosen field. I'm in computing, when I started out in Engineering, and
ended up with a PhD in math.
I get it --- harder now. I look back on my own experience in the early 80's ---- no way I could have done it even then. $27k for 4 years. I was making $3-7 per hour during summers from age 16-22. If I would have tried to work during school year, I would have flunked out. Luckily my folks helped out.
An important key to investing is having a well-calibrated sense of your future regret.
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by Apathizer »

stoptothink wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:24 amI have a brilliant sister who has degrees (in fields with real world job prospects similar to psychology) from Brown, Oxford, and NYU. She sounded exactly like you for years, then decided that maybe she should stop trying to find her passion in education/career and develop a skill with value in the corporate world. She had almost no experience with coding, but went to a coding bootcamp - yes, one of those cheap, cheesy bootcamps - and within a few weeks of completing had multiple offers for several times more than she had ever made. It's been about 6 months and she's now making low 6-figures and is like a totally different person. She made a choice to take control of her own life - you can too.
The highlighted statement is entirely presumptuous. That's just an anecdote that might or might not be relevant to me. A coder is like any other complex field in that you need a minimum natural aptitude to succeed. Without knowing much about me you don't know if I'm capable of being a coder anymore than I'm capable of being a professional basketball coach.

I looked at the education requirements for coding and they seem significantly more comprehensive than 'a few weeks at coding boot-camp', so I think there's quite a bit more to it than that.
Last edited by Apathizer on Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Beensabu
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by Beensabu »

Apathizer wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:13 am Neuroscience shows humans arrive at decisions pre-consciously. That is a we reach a decision before we're aware of it, so the the concept of freewill is largely illusory.
Now that is interesting. And I'm off to find out more! Thank you very much :D
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by 3CT_Paddler »

Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:36 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:26 pm
goodenyou wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:20 pm Maybe a bit...apathetic?
:happy

I get it - people feel "stuck" with what they have. Momentum is a hard thing to overcome. But it's always just a matter of priorities.

Don't like your job? Find a new one. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.
Don't think you have the right education? Get some. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.
Bored? Find something less boring to do. It might take some time and effort - you get to decide if it's worth it.

I don't accept the reply "it's hard, it used to be easier". That's an excuse. Some things were easier in the past, some things were harder. So what?
In the past it was much easier to find a living wage job with only a high school education. There are very few such jobs anymore. About 60% of US jobs pay less than $20/hr; many significantly less. Most of the other 40% are competitive, and require significant education.

You make is sound much simpler than it is. If someone has bills to pay, they can't just casually find another job or something else to do if it won't pay the bills. There's some truth to your suggestions, but reality is much more complex than you seem to realize.
I am calling BS on that one. It has never been easier to get a blue collar job that pays well if you can show up sober and do the work.

Last year I hired a plumber that works for himself. A single days work for $3,500. He probably net close to $2,500 on that job. He was turning down work left and right and was constantly busy. Another plumber that we received a quote from lives in one of the nicer neighborhoods in metro Atlanta and he has a small operation.

This is a golden age to be young and owning your own business in the skilled trades. Not only do most adults not have the skills to fix most basic things themselves (high need), but the competition in the industry is sparse.

My brother in law just started up a pool fence business making more money installing pool fences then he would ever make in the corporate world with his 4-year college degree.
Last edited by 3CT_Paddler on Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by 3CT_Paddler »

MathWizard wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:20 am
BernardShakey wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:30 pm
Apathizer wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:33 am
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:17 am
Apathizer wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:10 pm
Again, times are different now. Educations was more affordable then. I don't want to borrow significant money, so if I go back it will probably be community college (or whatever the preferred term is now).
You keep coming up with reasons not to do something. That's your choice to make.
Reality is different for every generation and every person. Those who grew up in the 70s had more ample access to affordable education, esp in states like CA. That's not the reality today. Today prospective students are likely to incur significant debt, which means they have less flexibility to pursue interests that might be impractical. If they borrow significantly for an impractical education they become mired in significant debt that hinders them for many years; sometimes decades.

That's the reality many people face today. It's important to think carefully when considering significant financial options such as borrowing money and educational paths. In the past most people could get a bachelors degree affordably, without incur massive debt; that's no longer reality.
There is some truth to this, but it's not as significant as you think.

In the very early 1980s, an Engineering degree at a University of CA campus ran about $27k for four years (tuition plus books, R&B, etc.). An engineer coming out in that timeframe with BS degree could expect to make somewhere in the $24-28k range annually depending on the industry. So, first year gross was roughly approximate to cost of degree.

Fast forward about 40 years....that same degree at a UC campus is about $115k (slightly variable by location) and I think the starting salaries in comparable industries (excl. the uber high Silicon Valley) are about $80-95k. So, yeah, it's not quite as equitable now but it's not as bad as you think.

The disparity can be mitigated by getting one's degree at a California State University where four years with R&B runs closer to maybe $100k. The key, as stated by others, is getting a degree in something marketable. Or going back to get such a degree later.
Not as good in the Midwest.

Comparing my son and I. Both received full tuition scholarships as National Merit Finalists, and went into Engineering. Me in 1980, my son in 2017. My son had finished his Engineering math requirements before graduating HS.

Total cost of attendance, both land grant universities, was $2K/yr for me, $20K for him.

I was offered a starting salary of 25.5K. His starting salary was $35K, and he has now worked his way up to $44K.

My 25.5 offer would have been worth about $68K in 2017 dollars.

I have ideas of what is driving this, but they are both economic and political, so I won't post them.

I do agree that the Op has little choice but to suck it up and provide for the family. I had to do that many times in my career, and other people had it worse.

Yes, life isn't fair, but one needs to deal with circumstances as they are.
What is keeping your son from making more money is moving to an area that is not economically depressed. Civil engineers are one of the lower paid engineering professions and starting wages are in the $60k-$70k range in most cities. If your son wants to make more money, then the only thing stopping him is not applying to all of the open positions across the country. And these are not super expensive areas to live either.
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by stoptothink »

Apathizer wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:54 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:24 amI have a brilliant sister who has degrees (in fields with real world job prospects similar to psychology) from Brown, Oxford, and NYU. She sounded exactly like you for years, then decided that maybe she should stop trying to find her passion in education/career and develop a skill with value in the corporate world. She had almost no experience with coding, but went to a coding bootcamp - yes, one of those cheap, cheesy bootcamps - and within a few weeks of completing had multiple offers for several times more than she had ever made. It's been about 6 months and she's now making low 6-figures and is like a totally different person. She made a choice to take control of her own life - you can too.
The highlighted statement is entirely presumptuous. That's just an anecdote that might or might not be relevant to me. A coder is like any other complex field in that you need a minimum natural aptitude to succeed. Without knowing much about me you don't know if I'm capable of being a coder anymore than I'm capable of being a professional basketball coach.

I looked at the educations requirements for coding and they seem significantly more comprehensive than 'a few weeks at coding boot-camp', so I think there's quite a bit more to it than that.
"Education requirements" for coding :confused Most of the "coders" I know do not have a degree in CS; some of them have no degree at all. Yes, my sister is very intelligent and she spent some time (6 months maybe) prior to the bootcamp learning the basics of coding on her own, but there is not more to the story; she had no formal education or prior job experience in coding. FWIW, my wife is also in tech (not coding) and was making 6-figures before she had any college education - she is a rockstar (grit, perseverance, and can-do attitude), but is certainly not my sister when it comes to basic mental aptitude. As I don't know you, I was not saying you have the aptitude to code; the only thing that is clear is that you have a victim mentality and will blame your lack of financial success on anything but your own efforts. Geez, it's hard to read.
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by fortunefavored »

stoptothink wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:21 am
Apathizer wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:54 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:24 amI have a brilliant sister who has degrees (in fields with real world job prospects similar to psychology) from Brown, Oxford, and NYU. She sounded exactly like you for years, then decided that maybe she should stop trying to find her passion in education/career and develop a skill with value in the corporate world. She had almost no experience with coding, but went to a coding bootcamp - yes, one of those cheap, cheesy bootcamps - and within a few weeks of completing had multiple offers for several times more than she had ever made. It's been about 6 months and she's now making low 6-figures and is like a totally different person. She made a choice to take control of her own life - you can too.
The highlighted statement is entirely presumptuous. That's just an anecdote that might or might not be relevant to me. A coder is like any other complex field in that you need a minimum natural aptitude to succeed. Without knowing much about me you don't know if I'm capable of being a coder anymore than I'm capable of being a professional basketball coach.

I looked at the educations requirements for coding and they seem significantly more comprehensive than 'a few weeks at coding boot-camp', so I think there's quite a bit more to it than that.
"Education requirements" for coding :confused Most of the "coders" I know do not have a degree in CS; some of them have no degree at all. Yes, my sister is very intelligent and she spent some time (6 months maybe) prior to the bootcamp learning the basics of coding on her own, but there is not more to the story; she had no formal education or prior job experience in coding. FWIW, my wife is also in tech (not coding) and was making 6-figures before she had any college education - she is a rockstar (grit, perseverance, and can-do attitude), but is certainly not my sister when it comes to basic mental aptitude. As I don't know you, I was not saying you have the aptitude to code; the only thing that is clear is that you have a victim mentality and will blame your lack of financial success on anything but your own efforts. Geez, it's hard to read.
I think we can agree coding is in an absolutely unique time and place where someone with aptitude and minimal experience can still make the leap into a lucrative career. If you don't have the aptitude (I sure don't!) it's like saying "become an astronaut."

I would be curious to see Apathizer's salary, career progression and portfolio review and why they are stuck. Start your own thread, Apathizer. :)
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Re: Anyone feeling "bored-out" with work?

Post by JoeRetire »

Elsebet wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:05 pmI was thinking of a job in an airport to help sick/eldery people get to their gates might be the closest thing I can think of.
Go for it. Those jobs exist and are looking for people to fill them.
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