ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

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BespokeBiker
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ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by BespokeBiker »

BACKGROUND: Been driving for many decades but somehow I've avoided an auto accident. So I'm unfamiliar with the merry-go-round of liability claims & what happens when auto insurance companies go head-to-head.

ACCIDENT: A month ago I had a car crash that was about 6/10 on the severity scale. My car was hit pretty damn hard on the rear left wheel, which spun me almost 180 degrees and left me with an undriveable car ($22k repair estimate -- still not fixed due to acute shortage of parts) / concussion / crunchy neck vertebrae. The driver was a 17 y.o. kid in a pickup truck on a provisional license.
Immediately after the collision a witness stopped and gave me his business card. The police officer who arrived made it clear that he could file a police report but (shrug) it's extra paper work, you know... So I let it slide but I did file an accident report immediately afterwards with the state DMV, as required by law.

CURRENT: My insurance company talked to the witness and today let me know that they've determined that the other party is liable. BUT, they also noted that the other party's Insurance is disputing the liability. Notably, I have a $500 deductible that I'm told should be covered by the other party's insurance, pending a liability finding.

MY QUESTIONS:
- If the other insurance is disputing liability, what finalizes the ultimate fault-decision in the eyes of the law and with my state DMV?
- Should I consider getting a lawyer involved to resolve this?
Last edited by BespokeBiker on Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
runninginvestor
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by runninginvestor »

Idk what the consensus is, but if it caused a medical issue already, I would get a reputable lawyer. Or at least see what one says. You'll want to be made whole and be financially protected on the current ailments and any future complications if they arise.
Rudedog
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by Rudedog »

Did the police give anyone a ticket? The person who received the ticket is at fault.
Topic Author
BespokeBiker
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by BespokeBiker »

@ Rudedog -- No ticket issued.

@ runninginvestor -- Sad to say, the neck, headaches, dizziness symptoms are still with me on a daily basis so I am concerned. I've been a pretty healthy guy for my age.
jbmitt
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by jbmitt »

There’s a mechanism for insurers to resolve liability dispute. Many companies are members of https://home.arbfile.org/ and agree to abide by their ruling.

Unfortunately, it is a pain and can take a while but assuming they agree with your insurer you’ll get your deductible back.

Both companies have to advocate for their policyholder while investigating the loss. As a former liability adjuster, I eventually got to the point of telling policyholder’s when they were wrong and that it was in their best interest of resolving the claim now, rather than paying much more because we upset people for far too long.

Adjusters are far too overworked, underpaid and all the good ones have left.

I’m sorry that you’re dealing with this. Work with your insurer, let them handle the repairs and subrogate for what they pay and your deductible.

The medical portion can be handled separately.
dukeblue219
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by dukeblue219 »

The police didn't write a report for an accident with an undriveable car, concussion, and neck injury? Were you transported in an ambulance or treated on scene?
furwut
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by furwut »

Not getting a police report may have been an error. The responding officer is the first finder of fact. Without a clear determination of fault an insurer is going to be very reluctant to pay damages. Any chance you can get the officer to reconsider?
Oldaroo3
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by Oldaroo3 »

I would think your state DMV would be notifying the other party with your report and they probably have to file some sort of paperwork as well either confirming what you stated in your report or disputing it. IMHO the officer on scene really should have filed a report. That is their job. Unfortunately, you may have to go the lawyer route. At least for a consultation.
Topic Author
BespokeBiker
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by BespokeBiker »

@ jbmitt -- Very helpful, thank you

@ darkblue -- No and no. The policeman offered to call an ambulance but again, gave off a strong vibe of "well I can if you really want me to.." I was on my feet at the time and though, fuzzy headed I thought I'd be okay. It took days & the following weeks for real symptoms to show.
furwut
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by furwut »

BespokeBiker wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:46 pm
MY QUESTIONS:
- If the other insurance is disputing liability, what finalizes the ultimate fault-decision in the eyes of the law and with my state DMV?
- Should I consider getting a lawyer involved to resolve this?
Have your insurer handle everything. You’ll be out the deductible until/if they recover from the other driver’s insurer. If it’s worth their while they may begin a legal action against the other driver. Biggest thing are your medical issues and it’s potential cost - that may entail you needing representation.
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ResearchMed
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by ResearchMed »

BespokeBiker wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:15 pm @ jbmitt -- Very helpful, thank you

@ darkblue -- No and no. The policeman offered to call an ambulance but again, gave off a strong vibe of "well I can if you really want me to.." I was on my feet at the time and though, fuzzy headed I thought I'd be okay. It took days & the following weeks for real symptoms to show.
First things first: YOU.

It's not clear if you are receiving medical care and ongoing checking.
If not, please start that yesterday :wink:

Two reasons:
1) Any care that is needed is very likely to be "the sooner, the better" in terms of long term outcomes.
2) IF there is any long term consequences, health wise, you will NEED medical records.

Let your own insurance company go after the other driver. That's part of what you pay for.
Too bad about the police officer not being pro-active. But you were obviously startled/stunned... and may still be having some effects...

Because of the injuries (severity/long term consequences still to be determined), you should probably have at least an initial consult with a personal injury attorney.

I'm glad you aren't worse, but it doesn't seem like you are truly "okay" yet, either.

Good luck!!

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
Topic Author
BespokeBiker
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by BespokeBiker »

@ Oldaroo & Furwut -- thanks for your responses. Duly noted.

@ ResearchMed -- I did make a point of speaking to a doctor at Kaiser immediately afterwards, and just recently followed up with another Doc there, so there is a paper trail of sorts on the medical side. This has been an ongoing issue for me unfortunately and every day seems like it's a different adventure re: the intensity of dizziness, headache, neck issues. That is, some days not so bad, the next it's back again.
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ResearchMed
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by ResearchMed »

BespokeBiker wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:47 pm @ Oldaroo & Furwut -- thanks for your responses. Duly noted.

@ ResearchMed -- I did make a point of speaking to a doctor at Kaiser immediately afterwards, and just recently followed up with another Doc there, so there is a paper trail of sorts on the medical side. This has been an ongoing issue for me unfortunately and every day seems like it's a different adventure re: the intensity of dizziness, headache, neck issues. That is, some days not so bad, the next it's back again.
Good, but it's really more about *you* than that paper trail (which could be important, but again, that's only as support for you anyway).

It sounds like you need better followup. Perhaps the physicians don't quite realize what you are experiencing:
"...every day seems like it's a different adventure re: the intensity of dizziness, headache, neck issues..."
That doesn't sound insignificant, especially this much later.
You may not be recognizing quite how things are.
PM me if you wish.

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
Luckywon
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by Luckywon »

Don't do another thing until you have retained an attorney.
exodusNH
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by exodusNH »

BespokeBiker wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:47 pm @ Oldaroo & Furwut -- thanks for your responses. Duly noted.

@ ResearchMed -- I did make a point of speaking to a doctor at Kaiser immediately afterwards, and just recently followed up with another Doc there, so there is a paper trail of sorts on the medical side. This has been an ongoing issue for me unfortunately and every day seems like it's a different adventure re: the intensity of dizziness, headache, neck issues. That is, some days not so bad, the next it's back again.
I gave myself a mild to moderate concussion about 9 years ago. It was a good 6 weeks before I felt normal -- and I had none of your other injuries.
Topic Author
BespokeBiker
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by BespokeBiker »

@ RM -- I understand although I keep hearing there's limited medical intervention for symptoms of concussion. Mostly mental rest & time -- and that imaging such as MRI or PET has limited value, that is unless you're displaying signs of serious mental impairment. [ my career was in biotech research, including basic neuroscience ] Thank you, though :)

@ Lucky & exodus -- thanks. I've not gone the lawyer route but may well seek out a consultation if only to get a lawyer's perspective on how these things can go.
Luckywon
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by Luckywon »

BespokeBiker wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:43 pm
@ Lucky & exodus -- thanks. I've not gone the lawyer route but may well seek out a consultation if only to get a lawyer's perspective on how these things can go.
You have injuries you deserve compensation for. Liability is being challenged. You may find yourself sued by the other party. I don't normally advocate running to an attorney but in an accident where you are injured, it is a must. The danger is that you don't know what you don't know in a matter like this and it is highly likely you have already irreparably harmed your case by trying to muddle through it without legal counsel.
PatrickA5
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by PatrickA5 »

Keep up with the medical part. Consider getting an MRI to make sure you don't have serious neck problems. Don't bother going to a chiropractor - go to a real MD.

A couple of years ago, I was a passenger in an SUV that was rear-ended. I thought my head was going to fly off. But, by the time the ambulance got there, I was feeling better and refused a transfer. A couple weeks later my neck and shoulders started hurting, so I went to my primary care doctor who decided I had whiplash and sent me home with some muscle relaxers. About a month later I went to a neurologist for an unrelated problem and she decided to do an MRI which showed several problems with my neck that were probably around for a long time, but she said I should see a spinal surgeon to get it check out. Then covid hit, so I put the followup visit off for a few months. The pain wasn't severe, but it was persistent, so around 6 months after the accident I went to a neck surgeon. His first response was "get a lawyer".

Very long story made short, I ended up needing 3 level fusion surgery. I had 3 disks that were smashing my spinal cord causing problems. It's impossible to know if the accident caused the neck problems or not, but insurance eventually paid out at the policy limits of $125K.
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BolderBoy
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by BolderBoy »

ResearchMed wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:28 pmBecause of the injuries (severity/long term consequences still to be determined), you should probably have at least an initial consult with a personal injury attorney.
I think this is good advice.
"Never underestimate one's capacity to overestimate one's abilities" - The Dunning-Kruger Effect
KESP
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by KESP »

Edit- Sorry, I missed the post where your insurance company contacted the witness. It is astounding that there could be that much damage as well as potential injuries and there was no police report done. I can’t believe that this is a regular occurrence in your town/state. You should double check this. Since it’s already been a month and the other person is denying liability, a lawyer might be your only hope. In the meantime you have to go through your own insurance and have them subrogate against the other drivers insurance. The other party can deny liability but you are the one with the witness. Insurance company should be fighting that battle for you and it shouldn’t be that difficult of a fight.
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quantAndHold
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by quantAndHold »

Given the ongoing injuries you have, you should probably stop posting about it on the internet and find a personal injury attorney. This is what they’re for.
PatrickA5
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by PatrickA5 »

quantAndHold wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:31 pm Given the ongoing injuries you have, you should probably stop posting about it on the internet and find a personal injury attorney. This is what they’re for.
+1

When I first met with my lawyer he had a little brochure that stated things to do and not do. One of the main line items was to NOT post details on the internet. During our first "discovery", opposing council requested logins to all social media. Of course, my lawyer objected to that (and almost everything else they ask for). I had only posted about the wreck on one website that I frequent. I asked the moderators to delete the post (which they did). I found out later that deleting anything is a big NO NO.
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ResearchMed
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by ResearchMed »

PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:22 am
quantAndHold wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:31 pm Given the ongoing injuries you have, you should probably stop posting about it on the internet and find a personal injury attorney. This is what they’re for.
+1

When I first met with my lawyer he had a little brochure that stated things to do and not do. One of the main line items was to NOT post details on the internet. During our first "discovery", opposing council requested logins to all social media. Of course, my lawyer objected to that (and almost everything else they ask for). I had only posted about the wreck on one website that I frequent. I asked the moderators to delete the post (which they did). I found out later that deleting anything is a big NO NO.
Deleting posts before even contacting any attorney or starting any legal action at all is a "big NO NO"?
Or after?

But either way, yes OP should NOT post any more accident-specific information.

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
PatrickA5
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Re: ADVICE: Post-Auto Accident

Post by PatrickA5 »

ResearchMed wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:27 am
PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:22 am
quantAndHold wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:31 pm Given the ongoing injuries you have, you should probably stop posting about it on the internet and find a personal injury attorney. This is what they’re for.
+1

When I first met with my lawyer he had a little brochure that stated things to do and not do. One of the main line items was to NOT post details on the internet. During our first "discovery", opposing council requested logins to all social media. Of course, my lawyer objected to that (and almost everything else they ask for). I had only posted about the wreck on one website that I frequent. I asked the moderators to delete the post (which they did). I found out later that deleting anything is a big NO NO.
Deleting posts before even contacting any attorney or starting any legal action at all is a "big NO NO"?
Or after?


But either way, yes OP should NOT post any more accident-specific information.

RM
I really don't know. The odds of anybody finding out about a deleted post on an anonymous website are very unlikely. I can imagine a really high dollar case the lawyers might have people searching for posts (or deleted posts), but not your run-of-the-mill car wreck. My case never even got to the deposition phase, so I didn't have to fess up to anything under oath.
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