30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

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cat_guy
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30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by cat_guy »

In between apartments I'm staying for 30 nights at a Marriott extended stay (btw: so far a great experience and good value!)

I figure I should take this opportunity to leverage these nights into points - the Marriott Bonvoy Boundless card has a $250 instant intro offer and nets 17x points, which is the most amongst their cards. It has a $95 fee. https://thepointsguy.com/credit-cards/marriott/

Seems like that's probably the way to go, but maybe there are some churning pros and points hackers on here who have more creative ideas for me. Thanks for any ideas!
60B4E24B
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by 60B4E24B »

The Amex Brilliant might be slightly better. It costs $450, but you get $300 reimbursed at Marriotts and $200 at restaurants, so the net annual fee is -$50 the first year. On top of that you’ll get Gold status, which nets more extra points than the Silver status with the Boundless. The additional benefits (Priority Pass, TSA Pre credit, etc) are just gravy at that point.

Depending on your travel pattern, the 3x free nights vs the 75k points could be a wash.
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cat_guy
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by cat_guy »

60B4E24B wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:12 pm The Amex Brilliant might be slightly better. It costs $450, but you get $300 reimbursed at Marriotts and $200 at restaurants, so the net annual fee is -$50 the first year. On top of that you’ll get Gold status, which nets more extra points than the Silver status with the Boundless. The additional benefits (Priority Pass, TSA Pre credit, etc) are just gravy at that point.

Depending on your travel pattern, the 3x free nights vs the 75k points could be a wash.
Interesting. I wonder if I can use both.

With the boundless I get an immediate $250 gift card to use at Marriotts. I don't have to pay with the boundless to use that.

With the brilliant I get gold status [btw, I don't see that mentioned here, only the free wifi - are you sure I get gold or are you thinking of amex platinum? https://www.americanexpress.com/us/cred ... brilliant/]. Which does not require using the card.

The brilliant's $300 reimbursement requires using the card.

So I think at a minimum I can pay with the brilliant and use the gift card from the boundless and get $550 off of my stay.

Now the question is, is it worth it to pay only part of the bill ($300 exactly) with the brilliant, and then the rest with the boundless, to get more points with the boundless? I actually don't understand where the "17x" number comes from. Seems like they are saying 6x from the card and 10x from being a bonvoy member in the first place? Or is that 10x multiplier only an intro offer on the boundless, something like that?

boundless: https://creditcards.chase.com/travel-cr ... /boundless
brilliant: https://www.americanexpress.com/us/cred ... brilliant/
comparison: https://thepointsguy.com/credit-cards/marriott/
THY4373
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by THY4373 »

A couple of thoughts. First off you get 15 night credits toward elite status with any personal Bonvoy card (I'll get to business in a second) each year. So getting a card should give you 45 credits for the year within striking distance of Platinum at 50 nights (with your 30 nights so far). If you qualify for a business Bonvoy card that is another 15 nights credit (it stacks with personal). So holding both a business and personal card will get you 30 nights credit each year before you have stayed any nights. Holding two personal cards or two business cards doesn't stack, it has to be one of each.

Marriott gold is honestly pretty useless. The Amex Platinum card will also give you Marriott gold and will give you Hilton gold at same time. Hilton Gold is actually useful because it gives you free breakfast at pretty much all Hilton properties whereas you need Marriott platinum to get free breakfast at some properties. The Marriott breakfast benefit is a mess and I'll leave it at that.

Bonvoy points are worth about 0.6-0.7 cents (less than one cent). It is certainly possible to do better than this (I am getting 2 cents per point for a night in a Miami Courtyard in January. I'll let you do the math on whether the earn rate at Bonvoy properties is worth it but the cards are mostly useless for other non bonused spend (2% card is clearly better).

The Bonvoy cards come with a free night cert of differing value depending on the card and I have done okay with these over the past few years. They only last a year just after you anniversary date (in non-COVID times anyway).

Bonvoy is dumping the award charts next year so who knows what the value of their points will be going forward. It is likely that outsized returns will be made harder and I suspect redeeming at aspirational properties is going to get more expensive. I honestly have very little trust in Bonvoy as an awards program. Marriott knows they are all over the place so they don't need an good loyalty program to get your business. I hold the Brilliant and the Amex business card basically for the free certs and the elite credits, my cards get basically no spend beyond Marriott stays. In the old SPG days they got a lot a spend. I have about 700k points with Bonvoy still somewhat against my better judgement.
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Watty
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by Watty »

cat_guy wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:49 pm In between apartments I'm staying for 30 nights at a Marriott extended stay (btw: so far a great experience and good value!)
Just FYI, in many areas stays of more than 30 nights do not have to pay a significant hotel tax but the rules can vary a lot. If you have not checked on it already be sure to look into that so you don't just barely miss out on not having to pay the hotel taxes.
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by softwaregeek »

Amex points (along with chase points) are the best points currency there is because flexible.

Another option would be to use chase sapphire reserve, booked through their portal. Gets 10 points per dollar, can cash out at 1.5c, or 15 percent return. But would give up elite nights, probably.
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by cat_guy »

THY4373 wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:06 pm A couple of thoughts.
Wow, thanks for all the info and breakdown! Good luck with your 700k point albatross 😄. I took a look at platinum elite benefits, I don't think it's going to be that interesting for me. And also highly likely I won't actually do those 5 extra nights this year. So I think given that the business card doesn't have a net negative costs with first year promos, the personal is better for me?

Any insight into my question about what is the meaning of the "10x" part of the "17x"? https://creditcards.chase.com/travel-cr ... /boundless

Watty wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:18 pm Just FYI, in many areas stays of more than 30 nights do not have to pay a significant hotel tax but the rules can vary a lot. If you have not checked on it already be sure to look into that so you don't just barely miss out on not having to pay the hotel taxes.
Wow, thanks for mentioning that! Alas, looks like for where I am, NJ, it's 90 days. https://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxati ... ents.shtml
softwaregeek wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:23 pm Amex points (along with chase points) are the best points currency there is because flexible.

Another option would be to use chase sapphire reserve, booked through their portal. Gets 10 points per dollar, can cash out at 1.5c, or 15 percent return. But would give up elite nights, probably.
I already booked so I think that won't work. But I can change the CC to whatever I want before I check out. I think I can't get more points out of this particular stay with amex vs Boundless, but it's very possible I'm missing something.
THY4373
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by THY4373 »

If this is a one off at Marriott I don't think it is a great idea to get their credit card. You could use the Marriott spend to get you a signup bonus on another card which will probably be more valuable. The Marriott cards generally only make sense if you are going to be committed to Marriott over time. Unless you think you are going to be spending quite a few nights every year at Marriott, I don't think it is worth getting one of their cards.

To your question on the 17x points Chase clearly lays it out on their website you linked to:
Up to 17X total points at Marriott
Earn 6X points for every $1 spent at over 7,000 hotels participating in Marriott Bonvoy™ with the Marriott Bonvoy Boundless™ credit card.*Same page link to Offer Details

Plus, earn up to 10X points from Marriott for being a Marriott Bonvoy™ member.*Same page link to Offer Details

Plus, earn up to 1X point from Marriott with Silver Elite Status, a benefit of being a Marriott Bonvoy Boundless cardmember.*
So you earn 6x on the credit card, 10x you'd earn in any event as a Bonvoy member and 1x for being a Silver member due to card granting you that level. Basically the 6x earning on the card gives you 4.2% back on our spend. Not bad but only if you can use the the points you earn.
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by 123 »

One thing you might want to look into is the consequences of staying in one hotel for 30 consecutive nights versus switching between 2 or 3 hotels (if convenient locations) for a night or two each (rinse and repeat). Some credit card and hotel point rewards programs have features that get awarded for each "stay", the more separate "stays" the better off you are. Just something to consider if it could be advantageous in your situation. YMMV
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cat_guy
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by cat_guy »

THY4373 wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:43 pm If this is a one off at Marriott I don't think it is a great idea to get their credit card. You could use the Marriott spend to get you a signup bonus on another card which will probably be more valuable. The Marriott cards generally only make sense if you are going to be committed to Marriott over time. Unless you think you are going to be spending quite a few nights every year at Marriott, I don't think it is worth getting one of their cards.

To your question on the 17x points Chase clearly lays it out on their website you linked to...you earn 6x on the credit card, 10x you'd earn in any event as a Bonvoy member and 1x for being a Silver member due to card granting you that level. Basically the 6x earning on the card gives you 4.2% back on our spend. Not bad but only if you can use the the points you earn.
Gotcha, good point. Well, I figure it's easy enough to use marriott points, they have a ton of brands all over the world. so if the multiplier is higher vs what I get with other cards, it's fine? Im not concerned about status but if I earn a few nights, seems like a win for me. But I should actually do the math and confirm that, will try to later today.
123 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:31 am One thing you might want to look into is the consequences of staying in one hotel for 30 consecutive nights versus switching between 2 or 3 hotels (if convenient locations) for a night or two each (rinse and repeat). Some credit card and hotel point rewards programs have features that get awarded for each "stay", the more separate "stays" the better off you are. Just something to consider if it could be advantageous in your situation. YMMV
Ah, interesting. Def won't work for me in this case (I have to work, apartment shop, etc. during my stay) but something to keep in mind.
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by Jags4186 »

Please be aware that if you're staying at a Residence Inn property you are not earning 17x Marriott points with a Marriott card. You're earning:

6x Marriott Credit card
5x Hotel points (Residence Inns earn 1/2 rate of more traditional hotels)
1x Silver for Marriott CC status

If you are looking for the *best* travel earning credit card it is actually the Bank of America AAA Member Rewards card with Platinum Honors status. You earn 5.25x back on "travel" purchases, with no cap, but the special trick with AAA is that you can convert your points into AAA Travel gift cards with a 40% bonus when redeeming at least 50,000 points meaning you're earning the equivalent of 7.35% back on your travel purchases.
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by JoMoney »

I'm not familiar with the specifics of any of these travel cards or Marriott's reward program(s).
But I wanted to add a side note though to look out for any distinction between "stays" and "days/nights" for earning hotel rewards. I was in a different hotel rewards program and found that I missed out on some rewards by booking my stay as one continuous several week period, where I could have earned more rewards by hopping through different program hotels each night and accumulating more "stays" covering the same number of days/nights.
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by cat_guy »

THY4373 wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:43 pm So you earn 6x on the credit card, 10x you'd earn in any event as a Bonvoy member and 1x for being a Silver member due to card granting you that level. Basically the 6x earning on the card gives you 4.2% back on our spend. Not bad but only if you can use the the points you earn.
Looping back on this again - so my question is, isn't that identical to the Amex Bonvoy Brilliant 6x + normal 10x? https://www.nerdwallet.com/card-details ... -Brilliant

But for some reason the 10x, or net 17x, number never appears in the amex marketing or blog posts. Maybe the

Jags4186 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:10 am 5x Hotel points (Residence Inns earn 1/2 rate of more traditional hotels)
Thanks, yeah I did notice that.
Jags4186 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:10 am If you are looking for the *best* travel earning credit card it is actually the Bank of America AAA Member Rewards card with Platinum Honors status. You earn 5.25x back on "travel" purchases, with no cap, but the special trick with AAA is that you can convert your points into AAA Travel gift cards with a 40% bonus when redeeming at least 50,000 points meaning you're earning the equivalent of 7.35% back on your travel purchases.
Nice - I don't have any BoA accounts though so I can't really get there. However it's interesting that it's a no-fee card with no foreign transaction fees and 3% off for travel, may consider this down the line.
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by meky97 »

Bonvoy points are worth about 0.6-0.7 cents (less than one cent). It is certainly possible to do better than this (I am getting 2 cents per point for a night in a Miami Courtyard in January. I'll let you do the math on whether the earn rate at Bonvoy properties is worth it but the cards are mostly useless for other non bonused spend (2% card is clearly better).



Can you share what you're using to get 2 c / point?

I've been a regular Marriott customer and an Amex Bonvoy holder. Thanks for the insights on this thread.
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by 60B4E24B »

cat_guy wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:36 pm The brilliant's $300 reimbursement requires using the card.
You can buy a gift card with the Brillant at https://gifts.marriott.com
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by ChrisC »

meky97 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:30 am Bonvoy points are worth about 0.6-0.7 cents (less than one cent). It is certainly possible to do better than this (I am getting 2 cents per point for a night in a Miami Courtyard in January. I'll let you do the math on whether the earn rate at Bonvoy properties is worth it but the cards are mostly useless for other non bonused spend (2% card is clearly better).



Can you share what you're using to get 2 c / point?

I've been a regular Marriott customer and an Amex Bonvoy holder. Thanks for the insights on this thread.
I'm Lifetime Titanium Elite with Marriott Bonvoy and pretty much committed to the Marriott brand (before and after retirement). If you do extensive business travel and leverage Platinum/Titanium or Ambassador status, I think you will save a lot of business related meal expenses by having access to
the Executive Lounges at JW Marriotts or similar Marriott branded hotels. I retired with 1.6 million points in 2013 and I'm now at 350K points because I haven't been accumulating lots of Marriott spend these days (and the program rules change frequently for example 3K in Marriott branded credit spend at one time gave you a 1 night stay) and I've been using the points a lot in retirement. Travel package deals do give you the best bang for the buck in using Bonvoy points and I still have around 200K in UA frequent flyer miles from these package deals.

I've hit 2 cents per point quite easily staying at Marriott branded hotels in Paris, Vienna and Barcelona, where the rack-room rates were quite high, using a 5 night travel package certificate. I've hit 2 cents per point using a 5 night travel package at the Essex House in NYC, and just slightly below that level for hotels in Nashville TN. I think your best play for Bonvoy points is international travel where the Executive Lounges provide generous food and liquor (top shelf too). Before Covid, I was looking into hotels in the UK where 2 cents per point would have been easily achieved.
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cat_guy
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by cat_guy »

can't apply for both cards within a few days:
you are not eligible to receive the welcome offer because of certain limitations associated with previously or currently having a Marriott Bonvoy, Marriott Rewards, The Ritz-Carlton, or The Ritz-Carlton Rewards Co-Branded Credit Card issued by JP Morgan Chase.
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by cat_guy »

60B4E24B wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:19 pm You can buy a gift card with the Brillant at https://gifts.marriott.com
interesting - looks like it's just to delay usage at marriott right? or is there somehow a hack to spend elsewhere?
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by dboeger1 »

As someone else mentioned, there are arguably better sign-up bonuses to get than going for a Marriott card, since the Bonvoy program sucks in general (that's at least my experience, and it sounds like a common one for many people). That being said, I think one important variable to consider is where you are in your credit card journey and what kind of card you're looking to get.

Generally speaking, you'll get the most value out of large sign-up bonuses, hence the name "churning" (although actually churning a single bonus multiple times has been heavily clamped down on in recent years, but the idea is still to cycle through cards for the big bonuses). These are your typical big-name cards like Chase Sapphire, Amex Gold/Platinum, Citi Prestige, and the new Capital One Venture X. In terms of raw return on spend, these cards reign supreme as long as you're working towards a bonus, despite the fact that co-branded cards like the Marriott ones might have higher multipliers for partner spend. In addition to large bonuses, these often have really great offers, so they kind of act like coupon books as well. For example, this Black Friday, my wife and I each got a $120 back on purchases of $599 or more offer from Dell through our Amex accounts, and to my surprise, Dell allows you to split orders with up to 3 payment methods. I happened to need a new computer and monitor, so I ended up getting $240 back plus a bunch of extra discounts from signing up for Dell's financing as the 3rd payment option. I also got an elevated cash back offer through Rakuten, which pays out in Amex MR points. All said, I think I got like $700 back in one form or another on that purchase. These tricks of course take a lot of planning, but those are the kinds of savings you can get through these cards that generally aren't available on others. And then there are of course the many travel benefits, including lounge access, trip insurance, rental car insurance, purchase protection, etc.

However, there are reasons to get other cards. One of the major cons with those cards is that they generally have high annual fees, so it doesn't make sense for many people to hold onto them after the first year's bonus. This means downgrading or cancelling cards, which is not optimal for one's credit score. Credit scores reward keeping as many old accounts active for as long as possible. Because of this, it's generally recommended to start with what are called "daily drivers". These are cards with little to no annual fees and high returns on spend that you can see yourself keeping for the long term and using as catch-all cards for non-category spend. Some good examples are the Citi Double Cash and Chase Freedom Flex. By getting these early on, you set yourself up with a base of cards that boosts your credit score over time and gives you generally good rewards for most spend regardless of whether you're working to hit a bonus or not.

Another category of cards that people talk about is keeper cards, mostly co-branded hotel ones, although some airline cards dip their toes in these waters. The idea behind a keeper card is that even though you might be paying an annual fee, the card gives you an annual benefit that outweighs that fee, making them worth keeping as part of your score-boosting base. The most common and obvious example would be something like a hotel credit card with a $100 annual fee that gives you a free night certificate every year worth more than the $100. These are cards like IHG Premier and Marriott Bonvoy Boundless. Airline loyalty programs are generally pretty garbage nowadays, but Southwest recently came out with some cards that offer annual points bonuses to offset the annual fees, and United has cards that waive baggage fees, so depending on your travel patterns, those may qualify as keeper cards for you.

Note that there is some overlap of categories. For example, the Amex Gold is hands-down one of my favorite cards, because it almost fits all of the categories. It's a strong daily driver because of its earn rates on groceries and dining. It's almost a keeper card despite the high annual fee because of all the monthly Uber Eats and GrubHub credits that more or less cancel out the annual fee if taken at face value. It has access to lucrative Amex offers. It provides some degree of travel benefits, as well as purchase protection. It has historically had pretty big sign-up bonuses. Basically, if you're not wanting to get too deep into the credit card game and you want to touch all bases with a single card, it's hard to beat the Amex Gold. It's still not as good as going through many big bonuses, but it's quite lucrative by itself, assuming you can take advantage of the monthly credits.

All that is to say, don't just look at the biggest bonus or point multiplier. Consider your overall credit journey, where you are, and where you want to go. Are you trying to build up your credit score? Start with your basic daily drivers or a hotel keeper card and build from there. Are you just looking to get a single big bonus given this unusual spend? Take a look at all the premium cards. Are you trying to churn through as many big bonuses as possible? Do some more planning and research the various issuers' application rules, most notably Chase 5/24. Are you willing/able to apply for business cards? Don't forget to incorporate them into your planning. Is there a temporarily elevated bonus that will likely go away by the time you're ready for another credit card? Maybe consider getting that one first (the Capital One Venture X looks like a very solid option that is currently offering a $200 AirBnB/VRBO credit that will go away). There's ultimately no single right answer, just the right answer for you and your personal goals and finances. Personally, I did not follow the obvious progression, but ended up chasing elevated bonuses, which worked out in my favor because of issuers competing on bonuses during the pandemic. I still use a suboptimal Capital One Quicksilver with 1.5% cash back as my daily driver, simply because I've been going from big bonus to big bonus for the past 3ish years.
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by THY4373 »

meky97 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:30 am Bonvoy points are worth about 0.6-0.7 cents (less than one cent). It is certainly possible to do better than this (I am getting 2 cents per point for a night in a Miami Courtyard in January. I'll let you do the math on whether the earn rate at Bonvoy properties is worth it but the cards are mostly useless for other non bonused spend (2% card is clearly better).



Can you share what you're using to get 2 c / point?

I've been a regular Marriott customer and an Amex Bonvoy holder. Thanks for the insights on this thread.
Sorry I wasn't clear. I was just saying that given the best available cancellable rate at the Miami Coconut Grove Courtyard the points were worth 2 cents per point (actually 2.5 cents per my spreadsheet). The cash rate was S492.68 or 20k Bonvoy points. I don't regularly see this level of value. This isn't something that is particularly repeatable (unless you are just going to seek out high value redemptions irrespective of where you want to travel).

There is something about January dates in Miami as lots of Bonvoy and other properties have pretty good redemptions values. I have two overnights there because of positioning flights to catch some cheap business class cash fares to/from Spain. On the way out I have a night booked at a Radisson hotel there and I am getting nearly a penny a point (0.9 cents) of value per Radisson point which is insanely good for that program.

Basically I tend to keep a certain number of hotel points in reserve for exactly this scenario where cash rates are high and other options are not good or available (e.g., AirBnB which I don't really like using for single night stays).
Last edited by THY4373 on Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by THY4373 »

cat_guy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:49 am
THY4373 wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:43 pm So you earn 6x on the credit card, 10x you'd earn in any event as a Bonvoy member and 1x for being a Silver member due to card granting you that level. Basically the 6x earning on the card gives you 4.2% back on our spend. Not bad but only if you can use the the points you earn.
Looping back on this again - so my question is, isn't that identical to the Amex Bonvoy Brilliant 6x + normal 10x? https://www.nerdwallet.com/card-details ... -Brilliant


It is and that isn't that unusual particularly with Amex as they don't necessarily have better bonuses on spend with their "premium" cards.
Last edited by THY4373 on Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
THY4373
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by THY4373 »

dboeger1 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:29 pm Generally speaking, you'll get the most value out of large sign-up bonuses, hence the name "churning" (although actually churning a single bonus multiple times has been heavily clamped down on in recent years, but the idea is still to cycle through cards for the big bonuses). T
I agree with this and the other stuff you posted. Unless OP is going to be doing 30 days a year at Marriott properties going forward I don't think this is the card they should go for. They would be better off looking at a card with a big bonus and transferable points or even just cash back. The only reason I have my Marriott cards is because they were SPG cards which was a more interesting program. I get just enough value out of them to keep them but I would likely not seek them out today (and I say that as somebody who holds more than two dozen CCs).
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cat_guy
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by cat_guy »

THY4373 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:09 pm
dboeger1 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:29 pm Generally speaking, you'll get the most value out of large sign-up bonuses, hence the name "churning" (although actually churning a single bonus multiple times has been heavily clamped down on in recent years, but the idea is still to cycle through cards for the big bonuses). T
I agree with this and the other stuff you posted. Unless OP is going to be doing 30 days a year at Marriott properties going forward I don't think this is the card they should go for. They would be better off looking at a card with a big bonus and transferable points or even just cash back. The only reason I have my Marriott cards is because they were SPG cards which was a more interesting program. I get just enough value out of them to keep them but I would likely not seek them out today (and I say that as somebody who holds more than two dozen CCs).
Thanks everyone for your ideas and thanks @THY4373, @dboeger1, and others for saying maybe another card is better.

First of all, the card comes with a no-frills $250 coupon, which I already have and which covers its $95 annual fee, so that's already a nice win, even if I don't put the reservation on it

If I do put the reservation on it, I'll get 5633*7 = 39,431 points. nerdwallet has them a $0.007, so that's $276.02
for comparison, on my citi double cash: $112.66

But I think you are saying I should use the opportunity to put them on a new card that needs to have some spend for the intro bonus.

Are you including cards where I won't get anything special out of the hotel spend, such as Amex Platinum where I will only get 1 point per dollar? My instinct is that this isn't the right move - if I want to I can get the amex platinum and just do normal spending on it, but for the hotel I should do something that gives a special multiplier for hotels (example: the boundless, the free AAA card that gives flat 3% on travel).

What do you think?

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/trav ... ints-worth
Topic Author
cat_guy
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by cat_guy »

(if this wasn't clear: I'm already at the hotel and can't book it through a portal)
dboeger1
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by dboeger1 »

cat_guy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:35 pm
THY4373 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:09 pm
dboeger1 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:29 pm Generally speaking, you'll get the most value out of large sign-up bonuses, hence the name "churning" (although actually churning a single bonus multiple times has been heavily clamped down on in recent years, but the idea is still to cycle through cards for the big bonuses). T
I agree with this and the other stuff you posted. Unless OP is going to be doing 30 days a year at Marriott properties going forward I don't think this is the card they should go for. They would be better off looking at a card with a big bonus and transferable points or even just cash back. The only reason I have my Marriott cards is because they were SPG cards which was a more interesting program. I get just enough value out of them to keep them but I would likely not seek them out today (and I say that as somebody who holds more than two dozen CCs).
Thanks everyone for your ideas and thanks @THY4373, @dboeger1, and others for saying maybe another card is better.

First of all, the card comes with a no-frills $250 coupon, which I already have and which covers its $95 annual fee, so that's already a nice win, even if I don't put the reservation on it

If I do put the reservation on it, I'll get 5633*7 = 39,431 points. nerdwallet has them a $0.007, so that's $276.02
for comparison, on my citi double cash: $112.66

But I think you are saying I should use the opportunity to put them on a new card that needs to have some spend for the intro bonus.

Are you including cards where I won't get anything special out of the hotel spend, such as Amex Platinum where I will only get 1 point per dollar? My instinct is that this isn't the right move - if I want to I can get the amex platinum and just do normal spending on it, but for the hotel I should do something that gives a special multiplier for hotels (example: the boundless, the free AAA card that gives flat 3% on travel).

What do you think?

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/trav ... ints-worth
If you're asking which is the optimal choice, I can't really tell you that, because it's very personal and there are lots of variables. For example, how much account management are you willing to do? Are there other cards which could have more lucrative spend categories? Is your normal level of monthly spend sufficient to hit other bonuses in the future? Do you agree with the 0.7cpp valuation of Bonvoy points? Do you even like staying at Marriott properties? Are you planning on applying for a mortgage soon? There are so many things to consider that running the numbers is really only a piece of the puzzle.

I would start with the mortgage question. If you're planning on getting a mortgage soon, your credit score should be of utmost importance. Not only could the difference be thousands of dollars, but it could be the difference in actually qualifying for your dream home at the upper end of your affordability range, which has huge lifestyle implications.

Assuming you're not planning on getting a mortgage in the next 6ish months, are you planning to optimize for the long or short term? An example of short term optimization would be if you simply intended on getting one card for a one-off bonus and then quitting the credit card game. That's a totally valid approach, as I have to admit, I spend quite a bit of time managing my various cards, accounts, and benefits to get maximum value, so it's definitely not free if you value your time. If all you care about is squeezing value out of this single one-off expenditure, then ideally you would want something with both a good spend multiplier and a big sign-up bonus. $276 worth of Bonvoy points isn't bad, but off the top of my head, the Chase Sapphire Preferred / Reserve get 60k UR points, which is worth something like $1,200 at 2cpp. Subtract $95 for the CSP's annual fee, and you get $1,100, assuming you can hit the spend requirements. That's not even including the fact that the CSP gets 2x for your Marriott reservation, which translates to approximately 5.7x Bonvoy points using your 0.7cpp valuation, so the spend multiplier isn't even much less (and it's 5x UR points through the portal, although that ship has sailed for this particular booking). So yes, I think the CSP is still a significantly better bonus than what you'd be getting through the Bonvoy Boundless.

Things get much more complicated planning for many cards over the long term. One thing to consider is the somewhat finite nature of bonuses. Chase limits how often you can get Sapphire bonuses (not to mention 5/24), Amex limits you to one lifetime bonus per card, Capital One is known for rejecting people with good credit and lots of cards because they target subprime borrowers who pay interest, etc. Personally, I would not get the CSP right now because Chase had elevated offers well above that for quite a while and recently dropped it to 60k, which is historically weak for that card, so I'd wait to see if it goes back up again. Most of my applications have been during historically high bonus period to try to maximize value on my way through the various issuers. Of course, spend multipliers are also an important factor, as are annual fees. One of the big things to plan around are your spend expectations. For example, I had planned to get 3 Chase Ink business card bonuses, but I only got 2 before the pandemic when Chase significantly increased the spend requirements for Ink bonuses. At that point, I gave up on the notion of getting a 3rd Ink card. However, we eventually bought a house, and I recently had a big chunk of bills due such as property taxes, insurance, etc. Even though the rate of return on spend wasn't the absolute best after credit card processing fees, I decided to apply for that 3rd Ink card to get the bonus, simply because I was in a position to hit the spend requirements. I could have technically gotten a better return rate with other cards on a lesser amount, but I had that high amount of spend anyway, and I could either get the bonus or not in the long run, so it made sense to get it while I could. Similarly, I'm fairly certain I recently burnt a couple of 5/24 slots for a $50 PayPal credit and about $250 worth of Dell Rewards through their respective financing programs. Most card enthusiasts would say that's a stupid thing to do, but my reasoning was that those opportunities presented themselves organically based on purchases I was making, and I can "garden" until I get the last couple 5/24 slots I need to finish up Chase. My wife also has cards of her own that complement mine, such as her Chase Freedom which I have yet to get for myself.

Then we get to the Bonvoy points themself. For what it's worth, I have the Bonvoy Boundless for the annual night certificate, but I have not had the best experiences with Bonvoy. The biggest issue for me is that we have a small dog that we like to travel with, and despite Marriott's many properties, virtually all of them have insanely high pet fees. Even when traveling without the dog, I've only ever been able to get about 0.5-0.6cpp with Bonvoy, not the 0.7cpp you used. Of course, this will vary by location and season. Hopefully that helps illustrate why there's not always a straight-forward answer based on the numbers alone. It really is about matching the numbers with your personal goals and finances.
Topic Author
cat_guy
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by cat_guy »

dboeger1 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:22 pm ...
🤯 thanks for all the info, analysis, and advice

Just now before I read your response I had the realization of one of your points: If i'm trying to take advantage of spend as much as possible throughout the year with multiple cards, it's more important to do that than to try to multiply marriott points.

I think a background assumption of that is: typically people don't spend enough throughout the year to always be able to take advantage of all the CC intro offers that they want to.

I'm not sure if I fit into that. I probably spend about 25-40k/year in my 2-person household. (varies wildly during covid because I was living in AirBnBs) So I _think_ that if I wanted to leverage this hotel spend and also work through a handful of CC intro offers, I could still do that. Or, are some churners so hardcore that 25-40k is still limiting?

(there's probably some intro-to-churning guide somewhere that I should read)
dboeger1
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by dboeger1 »

cat_guy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:55 pm Or, are some churners so hardcore that 25-40k is still limiting?

(there's probably some intro-to-churning guide somewhere that I should read)
You could do a whole lot worse than the Ask Sebby YouTube channel. There are many such credit card channels, but he tends to talk about overall strategy more than the others.

As for your spend, it should be enough in absolute terms. The problem is if much of that is rent or certain bills, you may not be able to put it on cards, or there may be associated fees or loopholes. There's also the issue of acceptance. I live in a very working class Asian area where many of the local Asian restaurants don't take Amex, so that's something I have to consider with Amex spend requirements. The biggest spend requirements tend to be on business cards. Chase raised all their Ink spend requirements to $7.5k in 2020, making them difficult to hit without having legitimate business spend (or a $10k property tax bill like I did).
Topic Author
cat_guy
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by cat_guy »

Gotcha, thanks for that insight @dboeger1

I decided to pull the trigger on the amex platinum so I can get gold status because I realized that this gets me 25% boost on my points for the 30-night stay.

My plan is to still put the hotel charge on the Marriott, then after that use the platinum. I'm not planning on cranking through a bunch of cards. A couple a year is good enough for my pedestrian tastes.
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Prokofiev
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by Prokofiev »

ChrisC wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:08 pm

I'm Lifetime Titanium Elite with Marriott Bonvoy and pretty much committed to the Marriott brand (before and after retirement). If you do extensive business travel and leverage Platinum/Titanium or Ambassador status, I think you will save a lot of business related meal expenses by having access to
the Executive Lounges at JW Marriotts or similar Marriott branded hotels.
Since I am also a Lifetime Titanium member, I wanted to point out that there is no reason to stay committed to the brand at this point.
You are free to use Hilton or better, Hyatt as needed without always trying to re-qualify for Titanium or Platinum. I now book the best/most
convenient hotel that fits my needs. The international executive lounges are indeed great, especially Asia, whether business-related or not.
But many are still closed due to Covid. I have not visited ANY lounge since Feb 2020.

Also it is rumored that the 25-40k free night certificates will soon be upgradable by adding extra points from your account or cash, making
them actually useful in big cities where 40-50k is the minimum going rate. Let's hope that's true . . .
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein
ChrisC
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by ChrisC »

Prokofiev wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:45 am
ChrisC wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:08 pm

I'm Lifetime Titanium Elite with Marriott Bonvoy and pretty much committed to the Marriott brand (before and after retirement). If you do extensive business travel and leverage Platinum/Titanium or Ambassador status, I think you will save a lot of business related meal expenses by having access to
the Executive Lounges at JW Marriotts or similar Marriott branded hotels.
Since I am also a Lifetime Titanium member, I wanted to point out that there is no reason to stay committed to the brand at this point.
You are free to use Hilton or better, Hyatt as needed without always trying to re-qualify for Titanium or Platinum. I now book the best/most
convenient hotel that fits my needs. The international executive lounges are indeed great, especially Asia, whether business-related or not.
But many are still closed due to Covid. I have not visited ANY lounge since Feb 2020.

Also it is rumored that the 25-40k free night certificates will soon be upgradable by adding extra points from your account or cash, making
them actually useful in big cities where 40-50k is the minimum going rate. Let's hope that's true . . .
I’m committed but not chained to the brand. I find leveraging Marriott Vacation Club points and weeks, Lifetime Titanium Elite Status, and the Marriott branded credit card works for us in most cases, whether it’s booking at Marriott resorts, Autograph Hotels, Ritz Carlton, Courtyard or Residence Inns. Nonetheless, I'll book at AirBnB, VRBO or Hampton Inns if suitable for us. I find my Marriott affiliations a helpful part of my vacation/leisure portfolio of resources.

BTW, the lounges are re-opening in many places. The Marriott at Tysons Corner, VA lounge was open when I was there 2 weeks ago. And Marriott is doing some interesting stuff these days with its rewards and vacation club programs, including offering upscale home rentals in an apparent attempt to meet some of the business challenges of AirBnB. https://mvcowner.villasofdistinction.com/villa-specials

I've been getting 2 free night certificates the last few years (from the Marriott Boundless CC and meeting annual Plat levels of 75 stays); I've put them to good use in desirable locations to me.

Sorry to side-track this thread -- there are certainly more robust and insightful discussions of Marriott benefits at FlyerTalk or the Timeshare Users Group forums.
60B4E24B
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by 60B4E24B »

cat_guy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:18 pm
60B4E24B wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:19 pm You can buy a gift card with the Brillant at https://gifts.marriott.com
interesting - looks like it's just to delay usage at marriott right? or is there somehow a hack to spend elsewhere?
Right, but if you’re spending 30 nights in Marriotts already, you have the spend lined up already, so you’ll liquidate quickly.
Topic Author
cat_guy
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by cat_guy »

60B4E24B wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:03 pm
cat_guy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:18 pm
60B4E24B wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:19 pm You can buy a gift card with the Brillant at https://gifts.marriott.com
interesting - looks like it's just to delay usage at marriott right? or is there somehow a hack to spend elsewhere?
Right, but if you’re spending 30 nights in Marriotts already, you have the spend lined up already, so you’ll liquidate quickly.
Ah gotcha. but why not just pay for $300 of my stay with one card and the rest with the other?

I wonder if I get points for buying gift cards, and if so how many, and if it's more than i get for paying for a residence inn (unlikely).
yoyo6713
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by yoyo6713 »

cat_guy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:17 pm can't apply for both cards within a few days:
you are not eligible to receive the welcome offer because of certain limitations associated with previously or currently having a Marriott Bonvoy, Marriott Rewards, The Ritz-Carlton, or The Ritz-Carlton Rewards Co-Branded Credit Card issued by JP Morgan Chase.
😭😭😭
Shouldn't you get both cards on the same day instead?

Anyway I am at 26 nights this year, is there enough time to get both the personal and business card before year end?
Topic Author
cat_guy
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Re: 30 nights at Marriott - best way to take advantage via credit card?

Post by cat_guy »

yoyo6713 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:38 pm
cat_guy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:17 pm can't apply for both cards within a few days:
you are not eligible to receive the welcome offer because of certain limitations associated with previously or currently having a Marriott Bonvoy, Marriott Rewards, The Ritz-Carlton, or The Ritz-Carlton Rewards Co-Branded Credit Card issued by JP Morgan Chase.
😭😭😭
Shouldn't you get both cards on the same day instead?

Anyway I am at 26 nights this year, is there enough time to get both the personal and business card before year end?
i don't know how many days i need to wait before getting the second one

i think im done with my CC math/juggling at this point, i did get the amex platinum as well so i can get marriott gold and the extra points boost
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