ABET accreditation for University Computer Science programs

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painslayer
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ABET accreditation for University Computer Science programs

Post by painslayer »

Good day,

The other day, I posted a thread asking about CS as a major in college and as a career choice. I did this as a curious father of a son who will be starting college next Fall and who has expressed interest in pursuing a career in CS. He has already been accepted at two very strong large state universities for CS in their respective College of Engineering. So as I was learning about the CS programs, I saw that Carnegie Mellon is accredited by ABET in CS and their other engineering majors. But I also saw that some very good large state universities, such as U of Michigan (very high quality CS program) are not. So I looked up the meaning of ABET and it seems to be an accreditation that is a “measuring stick” of a university delivering a high quality education to its students in CS and Engineering. I googled ABET and learned quite a bit and then went to their website abet.org to learn more. Is this accreditation a bench mark of a program that is that important for future employers or grad schools? What should my son consider in terms of accreditation of large state university CS programs? Anything else to consider?
Thank you.
HawkeyePierce
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Re: ABET accreditation for University Computer Science programs

Post by HawkeyePierce »

It’s an irrelevant accreditation.
morbo
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Re: ABET accreditation for University Computer Science programs

Post by morbo »

I was a CS major and went to a school that was ABET accredited. I agree it’s largely meaningless.
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quantAndHold
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Re: ABET accreditation for University Computer Science programs

Post by quantAndHold »

I interviewed a lot of recent grads for jobs at good companies, and have never heard of it. Maybe it means more inside academia?

If I was evaluating schools, I would ask the school what companies recruit at that school, and compare and contrast that way.
fwellimort
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Re: ABET accreditation for University Computer Science programs

Post by fwellimort »

Software engineer here with CS degree from top 3 undergrad usnews school

ABET is absolutely worthless. I think one of the best CS schools in the world, UCB, doesn't have ABET accreditation for its EECS program.
I could be wrong there.

Overall school quality is more important for CS at undergrad level.
Afty
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Re: ABET accreditation for University Computer Science programs

Post by Afty »

This is a good answer to this question: https://qr.ae/pGlb4g

TL;DR It doesn’t matter for well known programs. It may matter for unknown programs. As a hiring manager of software engineers, I’ve never considered ABET accreditation. Incidentally when I was in grad school one of my tasks as a TA was to provide sample assignments to the ABET accreditors, so I’ve seen this process from that side as well. I get the sense it’s more important for “real” engineering disciplines.
KyleAAA
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Re: ABET accreditation for University Computer Science programs

Post by KyleAAA »

Nobody cares about it and few even know what it is outside of HR, who don't decide who to hire, anyway.
Last edited by KyleAAA on Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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painslayer
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Re: ABET accreditation for University Computer Science programs

Post by painslayer »

Thank you to everyone for their responses. Very much appreciated. I wish to correct myself…..University of Michigan IS ABET accredited.
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TexasPE
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Re: ABET accreditation for University Computer Science programs

Post by TexasPE »

Afty wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:47 pm I get the sense it’s more important for “real” engineering disciplines.
+1

I am a volunteer ABET evaluator for engineering/ technical programs. In many states to become a registered Professional Engineer (PE), one must be an ABET program graduate. Many newer programs (Mechatronics/ Robotics) pursue ABET accreditation.
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Northern Flicker
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Re: ABET accreditation for University Computer Science programs

Post by Northern Flicker »

It mostly does not matter for CS (as of today). But if a program lacks ABET accreditation it would be worth understanding the reason given how pervasive the accreditation has become. I believe that MIT for instance would say that conformance to ABET would weaken their CS program. Whether or not that is true, I think most would agree that it has a strong program.
Colorado14
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Re: ABET accreditation for University Computer Science programs

Post by Colorado14 »

Since your son is not pursuing engineering degree, ABET accreditation is not as important to the choice of universities. If your son were to pursue engineering, then it's a very different scenario.

Note that ABET accredits specific programs, not entire universities or colleges. So while Michigan's engineering programs could be ABET accredited, that doesn't necessarily mean that computer science will be accredited. You can search the ABET website for a list of accredited program.
afan
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Re: ABET accreditation for University Computer Science programs

Post by afan »

When my kids were looking at colleges they found that many top CS programs expressly refused to get ABET certification. The CS people said that it was too narrowly focussed on engineering for a field as broad and dynamic as computer science. At some CS was a separate department, not part of engineering at all. They said that, if they wanted to, a student could do a set of courses that would parallel the ABET requirements but there was not much point in doing so.

The CS faculty enthusiastically encouraged students to think outside the box in their elective courses, pursue a range of areas that were related but not necessarily taught in the department- applied math, physics, economics, genomics, population biology, linguistics, etc. The range of choices and customization of programs was more like graduate school than a highly prescribed undergrad degree. All included learning about computer science and everyone who graduated was well prepared to work as a software engineer. But no two people would take the same set of courses in junior and senior years.

These were at places that had ABET degrees in other engineering fields. For example, we were told that it is very important in civil engineering.
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truenyer
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Re: ABET accreditation for University Computer Science programs

Post by truenyer »

TexasPE wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:52 pm
Afty wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:47 pm I get the sense it’s more important for “real” engineering disciplines.
+1

I am a volunteer ABET evaluator for engineering/ technical programs. In many states to become a registered Professional Engineer (PE), one must be an ABET program graduate. Many newer programs (Mechatronics/ Robotics) pursue ABET accreditation.
++1. I am an engineer and my employer (not tech) requires engineers to have an accredited degree. Doesn't have to be ABET, but in the US that is preferred standard.
talzara
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Re: ABET accreditation for University Computer Science programs

Post by talzara »

painslayer wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:28 pm So as I was learning about the CS programs, I saw that Carnegie Mellon is accredited by ABET in CS and their other engineering majors.
Carnegie Mellon does not have an ABET-accredited computer science program. It has an ABET-accredited computer engineering program.

Here are all the ABET-accredited computer science programs: https://amspub.abet.org/aps/category-se ... eties=1208

Only 4 of the top 12 US News-ranked computer science undergraduate programs are ABET-accredited:
  • MIT
  • Georgia Tech
  • UIUC
  • UCLA
The other 8 are not ABET-accredited:
  • Carnegie Mellon
  • Stanford
  • Berkeley
  • Cornell
  • Caltech
  • Princeton
  • UT Austin
  • University of Washington (Seattle)
Northern Flicker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:11 am It mostly does not matter for CS (as of today). But if a program lacks ABET accreditation it would be worth understanding the reason given how pervasive the accreditation has become. I believe that MIT for instance would say that conformance to ABET would weaken their CS program. Whether or not that is true, I think most would agree that it has a strong program.
MIT has an ABET-accredited computer science program, although it doesn't conform to the CSAB curriculum. It may have been a political decision to accredit MIT no matter what.

The US News rankings have a four-way tie for first place: CMU, MIT, Stanford, Berkeley. MIT is the only #1 rated CS program to be ABET-accredited. It would've been embarrassing for ABET if all of the #1 rated programs were non-accredited.
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