Go to county clerk of court as suggested above. And see what you can fond out.hotscot wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:02 pm 7 siblings, $13K minimum, each.
Looks like I should get a better probate lawyer.
The current one is ineffectual.
I'm not a neophyte and I appreciate the suggestions but I'm pondering if there's an actual legal process, whether via a lawyer or not, whereby they can be forced to settle the estate after all this time.
As mentioned, only half joking, for all we know they could have spent everything.
Unresponsive Estate executors
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
It's a "cost vs result" calculation. Given cost of competent legal counsel for such mundane matters, seems you're likely to spend $5,000+ to maybe recover <$13,000.
To note, experienced similar "estate" administration chicanery, but let it slide. Sometimes you need to choose your battles, when it comes to "family", for the larger good, but it certainly strips-away illusions of espoused "family values" of those guilty parties.
Maybe remove these folks from your Christmas list.
To note, experienced similar "estate" administration chicanery, but let it slide. Sometimes you need to choose your battles, when it comes to "family", for the larger good, but it certainly strips-away illusions of espoused "family values" of those guilty parties.
Maybe remove these folks from your Christmas list.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
If I were you, my first step would be to look up the case online and to check the status. I'd then call the clerk's office in whatever county it is, and ask some questions. You can usually get a lot of helpful information from clerk's offices. They won't give you a referral to a local lawyer, but they can help you decipher the docket sheet and can often point you in the right direction for next steps.
Page 2 at the link below explains how to access ND estate filings online:
https://www.ndcourts.gov/Media/Default/ ... Estate.pdf
Page 2 at the link below explains how to access ND estate filings online:
https://www.ndcourts.gov/Media/Default/ ... Estate.pdf
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Sensible and Outstanding points!AnnetteLouisan wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:47 pm Those of us recommending legal counsel are not necessarily suggesting anyone sue. We are suggesting that OP inform himself of his wife’s options and the lay of the land.
Maybe there is a central complaint database for such situations in ND. Maybe the statute of limitations has expired, maybe there is an ongoing fraud case and an investigator cannot locate his wife since she is out of state, maybe the decedent amended the will and left the spouse off as beneficiary, maybe an accounting has been prepared and he can get a copy. Maybe it costs 50k to pursue this and is not worth it. Maybe there is a way to check or file something for $8.50 with a clerk in ND that is effective. Maybe the executor is wanted in eight states for fraud.
But a free consult with an attorney can let you know your options so you can decide what is humane and proportionate.
Well said.
Much as one would consult with other professionals; dentist, doctor, neuro surgeon, etc.
j
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Why would 2 weeks matter if you've already waited 6 years?
What's the urgency now?
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Delete
Last edited by BreadandButter on Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
You can compel him/her to produce the Will. However, under the 13th Amendment you can’t compel him/her to file a petition to probate the Will.BreadandButter wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:18 pm The executor in our case refused to file the will and open probate. Probate is required in our state due to the deceased having a house not owned within a trust. We filed a motion to compel the will to be filed and probate started. Once that was done, there are state timelines which needed to be met by the executor. Our lawyer filed motions with the court if these timelines were not met. Ultimately, the executor could have been replaced if deadlines were not met.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Why does anyone have to be sued? If OP’s wife or another sibling wants the estate closed, they can petition the court to be the executor, unless there is a will specifying someone else. Hopefully the wife has a copy of the will and thus an idea of what needs to be done. Getting past records from the non-acting executors could be a challenge or maybe they would be glad to have it taken off their hands.
No-one will know unless they ask around.
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Step 1 - get probate file
Step 2 - review file
Step 3 - decide what ought to be done, such as:
-petition to compel executor
-petition to remove executor
-seeking lien/freeze of assets still in estate or removed
-petition for an accounting/breach of fiduciary duty
-petition to deny executor fees/have executor pay yours
-or maybe even as simple as calling executor and say “if you give me my $13k I won’t call anyone else.”
Step 2 - review file
Step 3 - decide what ought to be done, such as:
-petition to compel executor
-petition to remove executor
-seeking lien/freeze of assets still in estate or removed
-petition for an accounting/breach of fiduciary duty
-petition to deny executor fees/have executor pay yours
-or maybe even as simple as calling executor and say “if you give me my $13k I won’t call anyone else.”
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
You seem awfully thirsty for your wife's aunt's $13,000. Is there another detail that we're missing? Otherwise, if I grok the thread correctly, you've spoken with two attorneys and neither of them seem particularly plussed by your issue. You have $4 million (if I understand the thread).
Occam's razor would lead us to the conclusion that you haven't received the $13,000 because it's gone. If it were a matter of dividing cash in an estate account by 7 and writing checks, it wouldn't have taken this long. Perhaps the executor spent down the estate. Perhaps they did so improperly and are hoping it just goes away. Overall the likelihood that cash has just been sitting there for this long and someone's too lazy to write you a check is about 0%.
Write it off, be pleasantly surprised if one day it comes. Move on with your life.
Occam's razor would lead us to the conclusion that you haven't received the $13,000 because it's gone. If it were a matter of dividing cash in an estate account by 7 and writing checks, it wouldn't have taken this long. Perhaps the executor spent down the estate. Perhaps they did so improperly and are hoping it just goes away. Overall the likelihood that cash has just been sitting there for this long and someone's too lazy to write you a check is about 0%.
Write it off, be pleasantly surprised if one day it comes. Move on with your life.
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Below is a link to the ND Court System's information.hotscot wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:27 pmThis might be a good point. We're in CA and they are in ND.AnnetteLouisan wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:17 pm Why not contact the AG in your state of residence or the state where the estate is located? Executors have responsibilities under law. If they are trustees they have to make a full accounting. I’m not a lawyer in this area but your local bar association should have a free consult line and they can put you in touch with someone who can give you a free lay of the land about your options.
https://www.ndcourts.gov/legal-self-hel ... al-probate
Each state is different of course, but in VA, all of the filings are public. A few minor thoughts: if there is the idea that the estate is being exhausted before settlement, the Court would want to know; are the executors / representatives in ND? Some states require that they be in the state where the estate is being settled.
Depending on the representative/executor, it might be too difficult for them. Where I live, the Commissioners of Accounts in my county (in VA that's who administers estates), will only accept accounting done with their software which is complex and cumbersome and they want it to the penny, literally to the penny, no rounding or guessing.
If non-compliance with the ND's probate system is alleged, either negligence, fraud or something else - such as not wanting to pay for the bond - if it is required, then what's the next step? The courts would take a portion to administer the estate but it would be done.
My guess is that ND is like VA in one respect: the courts fall under the judicial branch, not the executive. Complaints would go to the ultimate court with jurisdiction which might the state Supreme Court. They might not want to get involved, on the other hand, sometimes just an understanding clerk on the other end of the phone can make a call to stir the pot and get things moving; they might be tired of carrying this estate on their books from year to year.
In short, it could be due to ignorance, incompetence, theft or lack of financial resources (ability to pay for the bond) or even family drama, it is time to get this done, but each possible cause might require a different approach, but as I started out in this long post, see what the court will provide to see where it stands.
Last edited by Mr. Rumples on Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
"History is the memory of time, the life of the dead and the happiness of the living." Captain John Smith 1580-1631
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
But if the money is gone, it seems likely that something nefarious has occurred in the last five years. Stealing is stealing, and since the family ties are long gone, not that that should matter, the criminals (if they exist) should be called to the carpet to answer.8foot7 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:43 am You seem awfully thirsty for your wife's aunt's $13,000. Is there another detail that we're missing? Otherwise, if I grok the thread correctly, you've spoken with two attorneys and neither of them seem particularly plussed by your issue. You have $4 million (if I understand the thread).
Occam's razor would lead us to the conclusion that you haven't received the $13,000 because it's gone. If it were a matter of dividing cash in an estate account by 7 and writing checks, it wouldn't have taken this long. Perhaps the executor spent down the estate. Perhaps they did so improperly and are hoping it just goes away. Overall the likelihood that cash has just been sitting there for this long and someone's too lazy to write you a check is about 0%.
Write it off, be pleasantly surprised if one day it comes. Move on with your life.
Seems like a lot of easy steps should be done. Who is living in the condo? As suggested OP check property records. Make some calls to the local municipality. Simple, easy, nothing to lose.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Something nefarious may have occurred. Maybe on purpose. Maybe accidental. I don’t know. I’m not the police and I doubt OP is, either. I’m not in the habit of ratting out family members over a small sum that has no meaning to me. Let the six other beneficiaries have at that if they wish.
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
hotscot wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:23 pm You are correct. But I mentioned earlier it's not about the money. It's the principal.
@13K, with my dear wife's name on it, is sitting in a probate account when it should be sitting, and invested, in her account.
That's a chunk of green to grow over the next 10-20 years in a Roth.
I feel I'm reading a legal and relationship thread that has nothing to do with money. Putting up $2500 in pursuit of $13K - which is probably $11K worth of spending power compared to 2015 - when you're sitting on $4M? And to continue a relationship that outlived its effective usefulness 4 years ago? To quibble over a small share of a ND property when you live in CA? This can't be real.
Have you ever considered how much your time and mental well-being are worth? Have a conversation with your spouse and encourage her to walk away. You've lost nothing, except the time you've wasted pursuing peanuts. You're not getting your time back, nor is anyone going to pay you for it, but you are winning at life. Go enjoy that. Forget North Dakota, with all due respect to ND, which I'm sure is a fine place.
I am not a financial professional or guru. I'm a schmuck who got lucky 10 times. Such is the life of the trader.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
You cannot force an executor to proceed. However, the court can replace the executor if they don't.bsteiner wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:20 pmYou can compel him/her to produce the Will. However, under the 13th Amendment you can’t compel him/her to file a petition to probate the Will.BreadandButter wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:18 pm The executor in our case refused to file the will and open probate. Probate is required in our state due to the deceased having a house not owned within a trust. We filed a motion to compel the will to be filed and probate started. Once that was done, there are state timelines which needed to be met by the executor. Our lawyer filed motions with the court if these timelines were not met. Ultimately, the executor could have been replaced if deadlines were not met.
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
How about this: Pick another family member that needs the $13K the most and then your wife gives her share to that relative, which gets it off your hands and provides further incentive for your neediest relative to stir the pot as your proxy while you enjoy occasional updates. Your on-retainer attorney should be able to do that.
One cannot enlighten the unconscious. | "All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine." -Jeff Spicoli
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
'Have you ever considered how much your time and mental well-being are worth'
I have plenty time to kill and my mental health is excellent. Thank you for your concern.
This is more of a puzzle/mystery that I'm trying to have solved.
There have been many suggestions which I shall research.
And for those who suggest otherwise 13K x 7 is not an insignificant figure to 'disappear'..
Our net worth is not relevant to my questions. We didn't become Bogleheads by disregarding our finances.
Even our share could take us on a nice vacation somewhere exotic. Always thought if we visit Hong Kong/Singapore traveling First Class would be nice.
Thanks all.
I have plenty time to kill and my mental health is excellent. Thank you for your concern.
This is more of a puzzle/mystery that I'm trying to have solved.
There have been many suggestions which I shall research.
And for those who suggest otherwise 13K x 7 is not an insignificant figure to 'disappear'..
Our net worth is not relevant to my questions. We didn't become Bogleheads by disregarding our finances.
Even our share could take us on a nice vacation somewhere exotic. Always thought if we visit Hong Kong/Singapore traveling First Class would be nice.
Thanks all.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
I don't know about you but there are parts of my family that I would spend $13k on lawyers to break even if it made sure it didn't get in their grubby hands due to improper behavior on their part. Money well spent on entertainment. Go get them!
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
My cousin and I were the named beneficiaries on my grandmother's estate. Her brother was the executor. We expected to face some trouble because when their other sister died, he was also the executor of her estate and he managed to delay and drag out her estate for so long that her step-children were left with nothing. Very soon after our grandmother's death we received a letter from brother's lawyer saying basically that brother would take care of the estate in his own time and that there was nothing we could do to speed up the process. We did hire a lawyer after a few of those letters and conversations with brother's lawyer, because the estate was worth about $1M. We wound up having to all meet in CA for mediation because brother wanted "his day" to explain to us how ungrateful we were as grandchildren and a litany of excuses as to why he hadn't executed the estate. I could have just stayed home and watched Foghorn Leghorn cartoons for the same effect. It was a very unpleasant day, but obviously worth $1M.
During the mediation he and his lawyer agreed to execute the estate in the next 30-60 days (can't remember), which was what they were supposed to do in the first place. He did not pay our legal fees, interest, and he had no explanation of where any of our grandmother's personal property went. If we wanted any of that, we would have had to go to court and it wasn't worth it. Our legal fees came to about $12K iirc.
During the mediation he and his lawyer agreed to execute the estate in the next 30-60 days (can't remember), which was what they were supposed to do in the first place. He did not pay our legal fees, interest, and he had no explanation of where any of our grandmother's personal property went. If we wanted any of that, we would have had to go to court and it wasn't worth it. Our legal fees came to about $12K iirc.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Don't pay attention to the negative comments. If someone is an executor, then they agreed to that ahead of time and they should do their job. If they can't do their job for whatever reason, they should arrange for someone else to do it. Perhaps they have been busy with life or are paralyzed by the real or perceived bureaucracy. Regardless, they need to get it done. And, they may be a lot of things in the estate that you really have no idea about since it isn't transparent. Also, your pushing may benefit some other, less fortunate, family members and that's fine too.hotscot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:23 am 'Have you ever considered how much your time and mental well-being are worth'
I have plenty time to kill and my mental health is excellent. Thank you for your concern.
This is more of a puzzle/mystery that I'm trying to have solved.
There have been many suggestions which I shall research.
And for those who suggest otherwise 13K x 7 is not an insignificant figure to 'disappear'..
Our net worth is not relevant to my questions. We didn't become Bogleheads by disregarding our finances.
Even our share could take us on a nice vacation somewhere exotic. Always thought if we visit Hong Kong/Singapore traveling First Class would be nice.
Thanks all.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Thank You.
And you are correct.
And you are correct.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
First off, North Dakota has adopted the Uniform Probate Code (UPC) and under the UPC the folks who manage a decedents estate are called Personal Representatives not Executors. Second, if you do an internet search for North Dakota and Uniform Probate Code you can see all of the applicable law. Third, under the UPC there are provisions for the informal appointment of Personal Representatives (PRs) which is frequently done in smaller estates and was probably the case here. Fourth, and w/o research, a PR is likely appointed by a judge in the county in which he decedent was living at the time of death.
So you should not need a lawyer at least initially. Determine what county the deceased lived and then get the phone number for the office of the County Judge and call that office and explain the situation - they should be helpful. PRs even those appointed informally are most likely considered fiduciaries and given the extreme time lapse you have a legitimate concern.
Tell us what you learn after calling!
So you should not need a lawyer at least initially. Determine what county the deceased lived and then get the phone number for the office of the County Judge and call that office and explain the situation - they should be helpful. PRs even those appointed informally are most likely considered fiduciaries and given the extreme time lapse you have a legitimate concern.
Tell us what you learn after calling!
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Is there a compensation angle here that rewards the executor/personal representative for stringing out the timeline?
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Nope. Which is weird as their own payment is also delayed. 2 siblings.Boglegrappler wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:23 pm Is there a compensation angle here that rewards the executor/personal representative for stringing out the timeline?
I called one this morning to have a 'man to man' chat.
To give a little clarification, they had a condo they all inherited. And even though the executors, or Personal Representatives, did not need to do so they decided on their own terms to repair, fix, re-carpet etc the condo before selling. And installed new appliances. All from the estate.
The story seems to be that they need all the check images in order to file estate taxes before payout happens.
I asked him about that and he indicated that he's too busy running his auto shop and he can't take time to go to the Credit Union. Yeah...riight...
I asked for a timescale. He indicated months not years. It's already been years.
Perhaps we'll give him up to 6 months from now before considering action.
In the meantime we can get our ducks in a row.
I'm not obsessive about this but it's like a hangnail.
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
I think UPC requires the personal representative to send financial statements to all the interested parties at regular intervals. I take it that isn’t happening either.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
You are correct. Not happening.quantAndHold wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:11 pm I think UPC requires the personal representative to send financial statements to all the interested parties at regular intervals. I take it that isn’t happening either.
Do you know of any references to support that?
- quantAndHold
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
I just remember it was one of the things I had to do when I was a PR in a (different) UPC state. Most UPC states have ample documentation and forms on their websites, because one of the features of UPC is that, when the estate is reasonably simple, it can be done by mere mortals without a lawyer.hotscot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:13 pmYou are correct.quantAndHold wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:11 pm I think UPC requires the personal representative to send financial statements to all the interested parties at regular intervals. I take it that isn’t happening either.
Do you know of any references to support that?
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Also, I got a ton of help by just calling the clerk at the court.
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Also, when I did dad’s estate, the resources I used were this book, the probate court’s website, and a couple of calls to the clerk, and I was able to get things done without much fuss. It might be helpful to read the book to understand the process for yourself.
My guess is if the holdup is copies of the checks for the tax return, they aren’t going to be able to produce financial statements, either. The hardest part of the whole process was staying organized, and it sounds like that might be where the problem lies.
My guess is if the holdup is copies of the checks for the tax return, they aren’t going to be able to produce financial statements, either. The hardest part of the whole process was staying organized, and it sounds like that might be where the problem lies.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
You are probably correct.
We've offered help but been rebuffed.
I'll do some studying/research and call the Clerk.
(Tru Blu....lots of good info. Thank you)
We've offered help but been rebuffed.
I'll do some studying/research and call the Clerk.
(Tru Blu....lots of good info. Thank you)
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
So, he just happened to answer your call today after ignoring all communication for the 6 years?!?hotscot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:53 pmNope. Which is weird as their own payment is also delayed. 2 siblings.Boglegrappler wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:23 pm Is there a compensation angle here that rewards the executor/personal representative for stringing out the timeline?
I called one this morning to have a 'man to man' chat.
To give a little clarification, they had a condo they all inherited. And even though the executors, or Personal Representatives, did not need to do so they decided on their own terms to repair, fix, re-carpet etc the condo before selling. And installed new appliances. All from the estate.
The story seems to be that they need all the check images in order to file estate taxes before payout happens.
I asked him about that and he indicated that he's too busy running his auto shop and he can't take time to go to the Credit Union. Yeah...riight...
I asked for a timescale. He indicated months not years. It's already been years.
Perhaps we'll give him up to 6 months from now before considering action.
In the meantime we can get our ducks in a row.
I'm not obsessive about this but it's like a hangnail.
Did you try to call before? That just seems odd.
But, anyway, good luck. Hope you get this resolved without having to "lawyer up ASAP" against your family.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Called him at his auto business.
I reckoned he had to answer.
He probably would have preferred not to respond.
I did mention to him that getting updates/dialog going would lead to a lot of goodwill.
I reckoned he had to answer.
He probably would have preferred not to respond.
I did mention to him that getting updates/dialog going would lead to a lot of goodwill.
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
You can actually start the probate case yourself and then, once the will was produced in court, would force the named executor to either serve as executor OR walk away and then the alternate or a court appointed executor would be named. As for the court fees, keep the receipt and then turn it in to whoever is the executor as a bill to the estate.bsteiner wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:20 pmYou can compel him/her to produce the Will. However, under the 13th Amendment you can’t compel him/her to file a petition to probate the Will.BreadandButter wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:18 pm The executor in our case refused to file the will and open probate. Probate is required in our state due to the deceased having a house not owned within a trust. We filed a motion to compel the will to be filed and probate started. Once that was done, there are state timelines which needed to be met by the executor. Our lawyer filed motions with the court if these timelines were not met. Ultimately, the executor could have been replaced if deadlines were not met.
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Yes we could have jumped in at the start of the problem; very likely would have been appointed as executor. We chose not to do this for several family specific reasons. We did get most of our legal fees reimbursed.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
This all happened 5 years ago? And they still don't have the check images?hotscot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:53 pmAnd even though the executors, or Personal Representatives, did not need to do so they decided on their own terms to repair, fix, re-carpet etc the condo before selling. And installed new appliances. All from the estate.
The story seems to be that they need all the check images in order to file estate taxes before payout happens.
Or they did nothing for 5 years, then recently decided to renovate the condo?
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
They remodeled the condo and sold it 4 years ago.JoeRetire wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:53 amThis all happened 5 years ago? And they still don't have the check images?hotscot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:53 pmAnd even though the executors, or Personal Representatives, did not need to do so they decided on their own terms to repair, fix, re-carpet etc the condo before selling. And installed new appliances. All from the estate.
The story seems to be that they need all the check images in order to file estate taxes before payout happens.
Or they did nothing for 5 years, then recently decided to renovate the condo?
The attorney that was working with them to settle left for undisclosed reasons.
There has been no accounting whatsoever.
Recently my wife and I hired a new attorney to get things moving. They have been uncooperative so far.
They claim they will have to reconstruct the process from the start and it will take 6 months.
The executor that has a business claims that he 'can't afford to take time off' to obtain the check images from the CU.
I'm wondering whether to wait(free) or start an action($$$).
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Hmm, I wonder if these are the buyers? And the delay is….well you can read about it.
viewtopic.php?t=295877
viewtopic.php?t=295877
- ResearchMed
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Unfortunately, if the house was sold 4 years ago (!), then "check images" or not, it now seems pretty likely that the money is just... gone.hotscot wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:08 pmThey remodeled the condo and sold it 4 years ago.JoeRetire wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:53 amThis all happened 5 years ago? And they still don't have the check images?hotscot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:53 pmAnd even though the executors, or Personal Representatives, did not need to do so they decided on their own terms to repair, fix, re-carpet etc the condo before selling. And installed new appliances. All from the estate.
The story seems to be that they need all the check images in order to file estate taxes before payout happens.
Or they did nothing for 5 years, then recently decided to renovate the condo?
The attorney that was working with them to settle left for undisclosed reasons.
There has been no accounting whatsoever.
Recently my wife and I hired a new attorney to get things moving. They have been uncooperative so far.
They claim they will have to reconstruct the process from the start and it will take 6 months.
The executor that has a business claims that he 'can't afford to take time off' to obtain the check images from the CU.
I'm wondering whether to wait(free) or start an action($$$).
The executor isn't going to get those check images now. They've made that pretty clear.
More to the point is, given that this is likely what the situation is, what is worth your time, effort, and money?
You have a few choices, including deciding that they've got the money, it won't be easy for *you* to get it (to put it mildly), and you have better things to focus on in the future.
(Assuming you really do not need the money, of course.)
As an aside, I don't quite understand why the new attorney would be "uncooperative". Any link to the estate or attorneys who were involved? (That may not matter at this point, but it's very curious. They *should* have checked for COI - conflicts of interest - unless there more widespread funny business.)
RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
[ quote fixed by admin LadyGeek]ResearchMed wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:57 pm , what is worth your time, effort, and money?
As an aside, I don't quite understand why the new attorney would be "uncooperative". Any link to the estate or attorneys who were involved? (That may not matter at this point, but it's very curious. They *should* have checked for COI - conflicts of interest - unless there more widespread funny business.)
RM
'what is worth your time, effort, and money?'
It's a puzzle. nothing more.
As an aside, I don't quite understand why the new attorney would be "uncooperative".
My apologies. I should have said unresponsive. He doesn't provide much or any information on what he's doing.
When we call and ask for a chat his office says make an appointment which is often many weeks away. There are not many probate attorneys in ND apparently.
As mentioned in an earlier post we'll research the situation and decide whether to take action later. 6 months or so.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
FWIW, I think the executor's excuses are utterly ridiculously.
He'd have to go to his credit union and get some check images. Oh NOES!!!!! How AWFUL. That's probably 6 years of effort right THERE.
His business is so so so VERY busy. He hasn't had a day off in 4 years. So sorry.
Were I in your shoes I would
* Collect information (from your lawyer and or reading state's website, etc.
* Get other heirs together, on same page, present unified front.
* Demand full resolution within 60 days, OR that current executors step down in favor of yourself or another who will wrap this up promptly.
He'd have to go to his credit union and get some check images. Oh NOES!!!!! How AWFUL. That's probably 6 years of effort right THERE.
His business is so so so VERY busy. He hasn't had a day off in 4 years. So sorry.
Were I in your shoes I would
* Collect information (from your lawyer and or reading state's website, etc.
* Get other heirs together, on same page, present unified front.
* Demand full resolution within 60 days, OR that current executors step down in favor of yourself or another who will wrap this up promptly.
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
It sounds like all that needs to be done is to sit down with the credit union account and create a spreadsheet of what money went in and out, fill out some forms, do the final taxes, distribute the estate, and then fill out another form saying that it’s done. Someone who’s actually willing to sit down and do the work could probably get it all done in a couple of weekends.
I might be petitioning the probate court to replace the personal representative with someone who’ll finish the job, even if it’s someone the estate has to pay.
I might be petitioning the probate court to replace the personal representative with someone who’ll finish the job, even if it’s someone the estate has to pay.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
I live in NC and I have been executor for 2 estates there. There is currently an estate in probate where my step-children are beneficiaries and the executor has been dragging her feet for 4 years. I have looked into how to deal with this matter.
Mind you, this is for NC and the matter may be state specific.
One key issue is you don't necessarily need to sue, the court may do the enforcement for you.
One key document that I looked at was the duties of an executor in NC, this was available in an online, perhaps you can find that for ND. This document spelled out the duties of an executor who had taken a oath to the court and also the legal penalties for failing to carry out those duties.
I had my step-daughter (who is an beneficiary to the estate according to the will) go get copies of all the filings made by the beneficiary with the clerk of court. (My step-daughter was entitled to these records because she is a beneficiary.) This was 2 over years ago. I quickly determined that the filings were not in conformance with the executor's duties. The executor needs to file a yearly inventory but that was not in the clerk of court's files.
The executor can be summoned to court and even jailed for failing to do her duties according to the NC documentation. The executor took an oath to the court, the executor is an agent of the court. The court can remove and even jail the executor for failure to file the inventory.
But, someone with standing has to alert the clerk of court to take action. My googling indicates that the first step should be to send the executor a certified letter demanding action, because this can be used to indicate that the beneficiary tried to correct the matter without the involvement of the courts. It might be a good idea to get your own lawyer involved in drafting this letter.
The letter might solve the problem. Heck a phone call where you make it clear that you know the law and regulations might get the executor off the dime.
Not sure the beneficiary even needs a lawyer, I only suggested one to keep her from making some error in writing in the letter. The issue is between the judge and executor who is the judge''s agent. The beneficiary is not suing the executor. Probate is already an ongoing court proceeding. You don't need to sue to start another court proceeding over a executor who is clearly not doing their job.
Note that this is all straightforward if the filings at the clerk of court office are not in order.
If they filings are in order, then you can learn what has been done. If there is no apparent good reason for the delay of 6 year, then you can probably get the court to review the matter of an excessive delay. In NC, the executor is required to file for an extension each year.
(Turns out that my two step-kids are not assertive enough to do anything except get the court filings and beg the executor, they have not discussed the matter with a lawyer or made any real demands. Their share would probably exceed 50K for each kid.)
Note that the courts don't seem to check on the status of probate proceedings. A beneficiary has to be the squeaky wheel.
Mind you, this is for NC and the matter may be state specific.
One key issue is you don't necessarily need to sue, the court may do the enforcement for you.
One key document that I looked at was the duties of an executor in NC, this was available in an online, perhaps you can find that for ND. This document spelled out the duties of an executor who had taken a oath to the court and also the legal penalties for failing to carry out those duties.
I had my step-daughter (who is an beneficiary to the estate according to the will) go get copies of all the filings made by the beneficiary with the clerk of court. (My step-daughter was entitled to these records because she is a beneficiary.) This was 2 over years ago. I quickly determined that the filings were not in conformance with the executor's duties. The executor needs to file a yearly inventory but that was not in the clerk of court's files.
The executor can be summoned to court and even jailed for failing to do her duties according to the NC documentation. The executor took an oath to the court, the executor is an agent of the court. The court can remove and even jail the executor for failure to file the inventory.
But, someone with standing has to alert the clerk of court to take action. My googling indicates that the first step should be to send the executor a certified letter demanding action, because this can be used to indicate that the beneficiary tried to correct the matter without the involvement of the courts. It might be a good idea to get your own lawyer involved in drafting this letter.
The letter might solve the problem. Heck a phone call where you make it clear that you know the law and regulations might get the executor off the dime.
Not sure the beneficiary even needs a lawyer, I only suggested one to keep her from making some error in writing in the letter. The issue is between the judge and executor who is the judge''s agent. The beneficiary is not suing the executor. Probate is already an ongoing court proceeding. You don't need to sue to start another court proceeding over a executor who is clearly not doing their job.
Note that this is all straightforward if the filings at the clerk of court office are not in order.
If they filings are in order, then you can learn what has been done. If there is no apparent good reason for the delay of 6 year, then you can probably get the court to review the matter of an excessive delay. In NC, the executor is required to file for an extension each year.
(Turns out that my two step-kids are not assertive enough to do anything except get the court filings and beg the executor, they have not discussed the matter with a lawyer or made any real demands. Their share would probably exceed 50K for each kid.)
Note that the courts don't seem to check on the status of probate proceedings. A beneficiary has to be the squeaky wheel.
Last edited by tadamsmar on Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
I removed an off-topic post. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette
At all times we must conduct ourselves in a respectful manner to other posters. Attacks on individuals, insults, name calling, trolling, baiting or other attempts to sow dissension are not acceptable.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Depends on what you are trying to achieve.
Trying to get the most money for your spouse - wait.
Trying to punish the unresponsive executors - start an action.
Trying to put this all behind you - just move on with your life.
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Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
"promptly" is probably the wrong word to use here.
Untangling 5 years of undocumented actions among uncooperative family members is going to take time and money. There will almost certainly be nothing prompt happening at all.
This isn't just my wallet. It's an organizer, a memory and an old friend.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Personally I would not pursue this but since you have stated you want to see the right thing done, that's reason enough to proceed. I think the only productive path ahead in that case is to enlist as many of the other beneficiaries you can to join in the legal expenses of filing a court action, including a petition for recovery of legal fees. The executor appears to be drawing this out in the hope the matter will be dropped. Once he realizes it will not be dropped, and could cost him legal fees, I'd guess he will settle in some way where you are ahead of where you are now.
Good luck and please keep us updated with what happens whatever you decide.
Good luck and please keep us updated with what happens whatever you decide.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors. Small update.
Small update:
We've decided, mainly because of 'sunk cost/effort', that we'll give the executors until the end of February to take some sort of positive action.
if there's none at all we'll petition to have them removed/replaced.
In the meantime we shall endeavor to have all siblings get back in touch with each other in the hopes of generating a smidgen of goodwill, especially at this time of the year.
(Another possible approach is to have a more responsible sibling added as an executor.)
We've decided, mainly because of 'sunk cost/effort', that we'll give the executors until the end of February to take some sort of positive action.
if there's none at all we'll petition to have them removed/replaced.
In the meantime we shall endeavor to have all siblings get back in touch with each other in the hopes of generating a smidgen of goodwill, especially at this time of the year.
(Another possible approach is to have a more responsible sibling added as an executor.)
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Is there any idea or guarantee that there is any money in the estate account or that it was setup to begin with? The behavior of no communication or willingness to complete the probate process makes one wonder if the money has been spent or distributed out already.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors
Yes, we did know there were assets originally but at the moment there's no way of knowing how much is left unless we take action.
Re: Unresponsive Estate executors. Small update.
In the NC situation that I posted in an earlier reply there was a potential issue with removing the executor. There is only one other biological child alive at this point and he is an alcoholic. If the judge removed the current executor then they might install that guy. I am not sure what it takes to influence the judge concerning the matter of an executor. if the judge installs a lawyer as executor it might cost a good bit more, not sure how that works.hotscot wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:36 pm Small update:
We've decided, mainly because of 'sunk cost/effort', that we'll give the executors until the end of February to take some sort of positive action.
if there's none at all we'll petition to have them removed/replaced.
In the meantime we shall endeavor to have all siblings get back in touch with each other in the hopes of generating a smidgen of goodwill, especially at this time of the year.
(Another possible approach is to have a more responsible sibling added as an executor.)
I think the best thing to do is to learn your rights and just treat is all like any other business transaction. No family member needs to be a patsy for any other family member. There are laws, rules, and regulations that require fairness. It's not about money, it's about the law and fairness. "It's not personal Sonny, it's strictly business". I have taken this approach in matter involving inheritance and it worked out fine.