Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

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WhyNotUs
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by WhyNotUs »

My brother's path- privately held medical supply company
Sales- commission only (varied)
Sales territory- salary plus commission (100k +)
Sales Manager- salary plus bonus ($180 + bonus)
V.P. Sales- salary plus bonus (250k + bonus)
CEO- salary plus bonus plus ownership options
Company sold to mega medical
V.P Sales- didn't make it through a year
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
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mrspock
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Re: Very high life satisfaction & happiness, how did you do it?

Post by mrspock »

calmaniac wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:21 am Re: Very high life satisfaction, health, & happiness, how did you do it?

OP, I think you are trying to optimize the wrong variable.

Once you are making $200k, money is not the critical variable to life.
I disagree. The money you make over this helps you secure your FI sooner. There’s definite value IMO.
fortunefavored
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Re: Very high life satisfaction & happiness, how did you do it?

Post by fortunefavored »

mrspock wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:09 pm
calmaniac wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:21 am Re: Very high life satisfaction, health, & happiness, how did you do it?

OP, I think you are trying to optimize the wrong variable.

Once you are making $200k, money is not the critical variable to life.
I disagree. The money you make over this helps you secure your FI sooner. There’s definite value IMO.
If your goal is to have more money, then making more money is usually a good idea. If that's not your goal, then of course there are plenty of other variables to optimize.

I took the money and retired early. The last 5 or so years, I was saving $200-300K/year. I can't say my job was any better/worse than when I made 1/4 the amount of money. It was cruddy regardless.
Livehard1234
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Livehard1234 »

Tech executive in FAANG. Grew from $135k to $2.5M TC over 12 years post business school. First 11 years in same company. Recently doubled comp by jumping to a different FAANG.
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mrspock
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Re: Very high life satisfaction & happiness, how did you do it?

Post by mrspock »

fortunefavored wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:17 pm
mrspock wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:09 pm
calmaniac wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:21 am Re: Very high life satisfaction, health, & happiness, how did you do it?

OP, I think you are trying to optimize the wrong variable.

Once you are making $200k, money is not the critical variable to life.
I disagree. The money you make over this helps you secure your FI sooner. There’s definite value IMO.
If your goal is to have more money, then making more money is usually a good idea. If that's not your goal, then of course there are plenty of other variables to optimize.

I took the money and retired early. The last 5 or so years, I was saving $200-300K/year. I can't say my job was any better/worse than when I made 1/4 the amount of money. It was cruddy regardless.
My goal…. was freedom to not work at all. Money was only a means to an end. Now that I’ve reached that point, I still work, but only because I still enjoy what I do. When the day comes I don’t…. I’ll stop. Earning lots of money sooner vs later gave me this option.

And for the record:
1. Computer geek from age 10
2. First job in tech as a teenager
3. BS in Comp Eng
4. Start-up company, learned to be jack of all trades.
5. FANG - Starting from bottom level
6. Stayed with company for many years, moved up through the ranks, received “discretionary comp*” many times.

*Discretionary Comp - It’s like fight club. First rule is, we don’t talk about it, so I’ll leave it at that.
Atilla
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Atilla »

Never got to $400K but I have hit almost $250K in a salary + commission job.

Throw in a couple additional big $1 mil client jobs and I'm right there at $400K. A couple decision makers go in my direction and that's all it would take.

This is working at a small, family-owned company - and not related in any way to to the owning family. Purely a hired sales gun. Not a management position - I have enough problems managing myself. :D

I have to think there are a lot of commission salespeople in a similar position to make real decent money.

If you are in sales, you are a job creator for your company.
Last edited by Atilla on Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wanderingwheelz
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:16 am Very hard to believe any one person in a traditional job is worth this kind of direct compensation. Sure, it happens, but it probably shouldn't.
+1

For that sort of money a person should be a job creator. i.e. a business owner.

A lot of small business owners, if not the vast majority, would rather invest in their company and the workforce that keeps the enterprise performing as well as possible than have some arbitrary earned income to pay taxes on.
Being wrong compounds forever.
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riverant
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by riverant »

Wanderingwheelz wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:52 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:16 am Very hard to believe any one person in a traditional job is worth this kind of direct compensation. Sure, it happens, but it probably shouldn't.
+1

For that sort of money a person should be a job creator. i.e. a business owner.

A lot of small business owners, if not the vast majority, would rather invest in their company and the workforce that keeps the enterprise performing as well as possible than have some arbitrary earned income to pay taxes on.
This can rapidly take the thread off track but this doesn’t make sense to me. Clearly through supply and demand, someone is worth this. But consider this, could a strong Individual be worth 100k? Should someone that leads manages 10 ICs make more than that? What about a VP that manages 6 of those people, now heading up a department of 66 and contributing perhaps $100m in revenue. Should their salary be capped at something below 400? Say $200k. At a certain level you’d then have a world where salaries don’t increase for more responsibility. In that world, who in their right mind would pursue leadership roles? Where would all set excess profit go? Inflationary benefits for everyone else? Deflationary consumer prices?
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by KyleAAA »

Wanderingwheelz wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:52 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:16 am Very hard to believe any one person in a traditional job is worth this kind of direct compensation. Sure, it happens, but it probably shouldn't.
+1

For that sort of money a person should be a job creator. i.e. a business owner.

A lot of small business owners, if not the vast majority, would rather invest in their company and the workforce that keeps the enterprise performing as well as possible than have some arbitrary earned income to pay taxes on.
I don't know where this notion comes from that only business owners are job creators. That's obviously not true. A good salesperson is clearly a job creator. So is an effective executive or a good marketer. So can be an effective front-line manager or IC, for that matter. In any given company, very few of the jobs are created by the owner.
Last edited by KyleAAA on Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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HomerJ
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by HomerJ »

TJat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:20 pm
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:52 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:16 am Very hard to believe any one person in a traditional job is worth this kind of direct compensation. Sure, it happens, but it probably shouldn't.
+1

For that sort of money a person should be a job creator. i.e. a business owner.

A lot of small business owners, if not the vast majority, would rather invest in their company and the workforce that keeps the enterprise performing as well as possible than have some arbitrary earned income to pay taxes on.
This can rapidly take the thread off track but this doesn’t make sense to me. Clearly through supply and demand, someone is worth this. But consider this, could a strong Individual be worth 100k? Should someone that leads manages 10 ICs make more than that? What about a VP that manages 6 of those people, now heading up a department of 66 and contributing perhaps $100m in revenue. Should their salary be capped at something below 400? Say $200k. At a certain level you’d then have a world where salaries don’t increase for more responsibility. In that world, who in their right mind would pursue leadership roles? Where would all set excess profit go? Inflationary benefits for everyone else? Deflationary consumer prices?
To the ICs who actually do all the work?
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
fortunefavored
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by fortunefavored »

TJat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:20 pm
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:52 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:16 am Very hard to believe any one person in a traditional job is worth this kind of direct compensation. Sure, it happens, but it probably shouldn't.
+1

For that sort of money a person should be a job creator. i.e. a business owner.

A lot of small business owners, if not the vast majority, would rather invest in their company and the workforce that keeps the enterprise performing as well as possible than have some arbitrary earned income to pay taxes on.
This can rapidly take the thread off track but this doesn’t make sense to me. Clearly through supply and demand, someone is worth this. But consider this, could a strong Individual be worth 100k? Should someone that leads manages 10 ICs make more than that? What about a VP that manages 6 of those people, now heading up a department of 66 and contributing perhaps $100m in revenue. Should their salary be capped at something below 400? Say $200k. At a certain level you’d then have a world where salaries don’t increase for more responsibility. In that world, who in their right mind would pursue leadership roles? Where would all set excess profit go? Inflationary benefits for everyone else? Deflationary consumer prices?
Check salaries in europe.. they tend to be very flat regardless of level. They seem to do ok.
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

The whole concept of middle management is a joke, but unfortunately also a strong and self-perpetuating corporate culture.
toomanysidehustles
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by toomanysidehustles »

jharkin wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:41 am As expected, the answer in the responses are pretty typical:

Executive management
FAANG software developers
Finance
Medicine (MDs - nurses and techs are not getting rich)
Law
Successful small business owner
etc.....


Keep in mind that getting to these levels typically requires a consummate level of education and time investment. Any job that pays that kind of money without extreme commitment levels is probably a sign of an industry in a bubble.
Raises hand as successful multiple business owner- 1 in manufacturing and 1 in real estate.

I graduated from West Virginia University with a communications degree. Going to college probably actually held me back 5 years to be honest.

It's all about the hustle.
Last edited by toomanysidehustles on Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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anon_investor
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by anon_investor »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:22 pm The whole concept of middle management is a joke, but unfortunately also a strong and self-perpetuating corporate culture.
There are rofessional jobs that pay over $400k that are not "middle management". Actually a lot of "middle managment" jobs don't even pay $400k.
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HomerJ
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by HomerJ »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:22 pm The whole concept of middle management is a joke, but unfortunately also a strong and self-perpetuating corporate culture.
Agreed. "Management" should be hired by the ICs to do all the paperwork the ICs don't want to do.
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
toomanysidehustles
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by toomanysidehustles »

D.Post.
Last edited by toomanysidehustles on Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
toomanysidehustles
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by toomanysidehustles »

toomanysidehustles wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:40 pm
toomanysidehustles wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:25 pm
jharkin wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:41 am As expected, the answer in the responses are pretty typical:

Executive management
FAANG software developers
Finance
Medicine (MDs - nurses and techs are not getting rich)
Law
Successful small business owner
etc.....


Yup, it's because this board is fairly conservative and starting a business is too risky for most here. I started my biz over a decade ago (now own two). Best thing I ever did for my financial life. Yes it's hard to start and there is certainly survivorship bias but in my experience most of the other successful business owners I meet are just simply really good at what they do. The ones who usually fail...aren't.

In any case it's allowed me to have a very high income without having to live in some super expensive area like SF or NY. A dollar goes a lot farther in the upper midwest.

I've said it many times but the best way to generate real wealth is to work on your sweat equity, not your stock equity. You have way more control over the former. Way too much hand wringing here about slicing and dicing portfolios, and not enough about how to increase your human capital.


Echoing all of this. We started our business in our 20s, were millionaires within 3 years, and still out earn our sizable portfolio, which is itself growing at an astonishing rate. Of course, it required an original business idea, appetite for risk, and incredibly long hours in the beginning. We still work hard now, but it’s all ours, and it’s down to 50-60 hours a week which we enjoy.

Good to see other business owners on here, I was going to say the only downside is no one else does what we do, not even our direct competition, so while that makes our business very secure, it’s also a bit isolating.

Disagree with PP who said business owners don’t have to be very smart, just hard working. To the contrary, I find that successful business owners are incredibly smart, resourceful and strategic, after all, we have to wear all hats! Above all else, successful business owners are consummate problem solvers.

So OP, start a business. The only people I know that out earn business owners are those that have made it to MD/Partner in PE, and that’s a hard road with compensation tied up for many years.
Just wanted to say I agree with the above. I don't think I'm smarter than anyone else (heck, I can't even figure out this quoting thing), I just outwork most people I know. :sharebeer
make_a_better_world
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by make_a_better_world »

Finished med school age 26 - income went from negative to $45-50k per year.

I started moonlighting at age 31 while a second year fellow - income increased to $90k year.

I became an official cardiologist at age 33 - income increased to 550k per year.

I joined a great group and was insanely busy - income increased to 650k per year at age 35.

I tried a bunch of other things like commercial real estate and ecommerce. Income >$1M on a few years. Sold a business for $5M at age 39.

I retired from the grind of medicine at age 39 - income still over 350k from non-medical activities.

41 now - I started my own small medical practice for fun which does not make much.

I echo what others said about starting a business. It was a great move for me. The real estate was also a great move - now there is a 6-figure income stream indefinitely.
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FlatSix
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by FlatSix »

make_a_better_world wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:54 pm Finished med school age 26 - income went from negative to $45-50k per year.

I started moonlighting at age 31 while a second year fellow - income increased to $90k year.

I became an official cardiologist at age 33 - income increased to 550k per year.

I joined a great group and was insanely busy - income increased to 650k per year at age 35.

I tried a bunch of other things like commercial real estate and ecommerce. Income >$1M on a few years. Sold a business for $5M at age 39.

I retired from the grind of medicine at age 39 - income still over 350k from non-medical activities.

41 now - I started my own small medical practice for fun which does not make much.

I echo what others said about starting a business. It was a great move for me. The real estate was also a great move - now there is a 6-figure income stream indefinitely.
Congratulations on your success. That's very interesting -- so it sounds like you parlayed your high partnership income into other investment and business opportunities. How did you find the time? You say your clinical practice was insanely busy. I am a busy, employed surgeon making good money in my mid 30s but I just find that I have little time or energy to branch into real estate or other things on the side. Appreciate insights into your joruney.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

KyleAAA wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:16 pm
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:52 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:16 am Very hard to believe any one person in a traditional job is worth this kind of direct compensation. Sure, it happens, but it probably shouldn't.
+1

For that sort of money a person should be a job creator. i.e. a business owner.

A lot of small business owners, if not the vast majority, would rather invest in their company and the workforce that keeps the enterprise performing as well as possible than have some arbitrary earned income to pay taxes on.
I don't know where this notion comes from that only business owners are job creators. That's obviously not true. A good salesperson is clearly a job creator. So is an effective executive or a good marketer. So can be an effective front-line manager or IC, for that matter. In any given company, very few of the jobs are created by the owner.
I didn’t mean to strike such a nerve.

Besides, work from home might end up doing to white collar workers what global manufacturing did to US blue collar workers. $400,000 jobs are quite possibly going to be harder and harder to come by, unless you make your own salary. I’m well aware that notion may not go over well on a forum such as this- where only a small percentage of high earners are signing the front of their paycheck.

Self employment, of one one form or another, may be a better route to financial freedom than ever before.
Last edited by Wanderingwheelz on Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Normchad »

Post deleted by author.
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chw
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by chw »

I worked in a sales oriented position. By mid career and a few (3) job changes, was able to achieve those levels for several years. I was generally the top or near top performer in the positions I worked in. Like you, early in my career. I had thought those comp levels were only achieved by top executives. I usually out earned my manager, and never moved into management for that reason. Top sales persons are usually amongst the highest comped employees if working in a professional type position.
make_a_better_world
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by make_a_better_world »

calvin+hobbes wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:23 pm
make_a_better_world wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:54 pm Finished med school age 26 - income went from negative to $45-50k per year.

I started moonlighting at age 31 while a second year fellow - income increased to $90k year.

I became an official cardiologist at age 33 - income increased to 550k per year.

I joined a great group and was insanely busy - income increased to 650k per year at age 35.

I tried a bunch of other things like commercial real estate and ecommerce. Income >$1M on a few years. Sold a business for $5M at age 39.

I retired from the grind of medicine at age 39 - income still over 350k from non-medical activities.

41 now - I started my own small medical practice for fun which does not make much.

I echo what others said about starting a business. It was a great move for me. The real estate was also a great move - now there is a 6-figure income stream indefinitely.
Congratulations on your success. That's very interesting -- so it sounds like you parlayed your high partnership income into other investment and business opportunities. How did you find the time? You say your clinical practice was insanely busy. I am a busy, employed surgeon making good money in my mid 30s but I just find that I have little time or energy to branch into real estate or other things on the side. Appreciate insights into your joruney.
I believe the main source of my time/energy/willingness to take risk is mostly because I have not yet had children. Second to that is I enjoy the things I have done on the side and know people in these fields to provide valuable advice. Feel free to PM for anything specific.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by coalcracker »

I am a radiologist. My partners and I make around $500k most years for the past decade.

Many busy specialist physicians (interventional cardiology, neurosurgery, plastic surgery, orthopedic surgery, dermatology) make $500k-$1M. My friend does interventional pain medicine and makes $800k. I know a dermatologist who does Moh's surgery working 3 days a week and making >$1M.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by BFR »

I went to an ivy league school and went into investment banking for two years, then private equity for two years, then worked in the hedge fund business for 15+ years.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by alfaspider »

Firemenot wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:13 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:07 pm
Firemenot wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:00 pm The vast majority of lawyers make substantially less than 400K.
True - and for all professions, there’s a progression of salary and title increase. You generally don’t graduate into a top job. You work your way up. Over decades.
Let me rephrase — the vast majority of lawyers will NEVER make more than 400K in their career. That said, it can be done, for sure. I’ve been doing it the last few years on total comp, but only because stock price is growing.

In general, the numbers for attorneys are highly skewed. Almost no one makes the average salary as it’s a bimodal distribution. And the bottom paying node is larger. As a percentage of total lawyers, Big Law jobs don’t represent many.
Yes, but it can usually be determined which mode you are likely to be in before you attend (at least to start). Just about everyone who gets into Harvard can get a biglaw job paying $205k base to start if they want it. It’s not that difficult to stick around long enough to hit $400k if you can stand the pressure and hours.

If you are going to a local commuter school, you can safely assume biglaw is an extreme long shot. For that path, the road to riches is building a successful solo practice, though there are legions of small solos who would like to hit it big in personal injury.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by nydoc »

I was born in a poor country. I was selected for the best medical school there. Then I applied and got accepted for a surgical residency in US and subsequently an advance fellowship too. I joined my first job at 300K but was asked by my residency director to come join them at 400K so I moved. In 2 years I was making 500K. Then my director moved as a chair of surgery to another hospital and asked me to come with him. I didn’t ask which hospital or what salary? Now after 3 years here I am making 700K. Next year my base salary is going up by 33%. Now we are planning to open a surgery center as we do high volume operations with minimal complications. America is great.
Shael_AT
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Shael_AT »

Tech, been making 300's - 500's since 2015. Super specialized in a handful of emerging and disruptive markets.

Now at the 900 - 1.2 m per year mark, but I'm at the absolute top of what an individual contributor can and will ever be (Think Principal/Distinguished at a company).

Most of that is equity, but we never re-calibrated to live on, want or need more than the base.

What's crazy is, someone can still make more than this, but that requires going into Management, specifically a "m2" or manager of managers, or "m3", which is a Manager (VP/SVP) of M2's.

That is the kind of stress, time sink, anxiety and human interaction I just absolutely do no want. Worst part is, I am both technical and a social butterfly with an extroverts edge + highly empathy and compassion driven, but I have had my first death (of two) in life, i.e. "The Death Of Innocence" recently and am dismayed, discouraged and distressed over who and what most people are, what their motivations are and how quickly they will turn on you the second you do not serve them or their goals.

[Expletive removed by admin LadyGeek] For all you managers out here, I don't know how you can live a fulfilling emotional life with the kinds of decisions and behaviors you must make and adapt.

Why keep playing harder levels of the game when you have already won
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Wannaretireearly »

I will need to bookmark this thread for my kids. Too late for me ;)

I belong to the coasters camp with kids. May break $300k TC for the first time this year as an IT manager. Kids take a lot of time (justifiably). Drop offs, pick ups, soccer drop offs, pick ups. Doggy duties etc. All different times for two kids and two working spouses. Couple that with a want to keep stress under control and I’m not too inclined to jump to positions paying higher, but likely with higher risk, stress and time needs.

Once kids are self sufficient I’ll have more actual day time for work. But at that point I’d like to be done! I’m playing the tortoise game, and want to work for at least 5 more years thru most of kids high school. If I can eek out another few years, flying under a relatively easy radar, I’m done. The $400k+ job would be a level or two higher. Director/Sr. Director/VP in tier 2, non FANG-tech

Wind the clock back 10-15 years and I was much more motivated by higher income. I guess that is one side effect of slowly growing a decent looking portfolio. Many roads to Dublin!
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by confused1 »

Hard work and luck. Now at FAANG in Director level role with a couple of years of $1m+ package due to stock rises over the past 4 years.

20s - Lot of time spent on any interesting project I could find. The harder and messier the better.
30s - carried on doing the same but got lucky and jumped into the start of the next tech revolution (was complete luck)
40s - All of a sudden found myself having led successful projects in a newish tech space makes valuable to FANG (2 offers from different FANG companies)

I have found that companies (at interview stages) value what you can do for them and the best was of expressing this is demonstrating you have successfully delivered elsewhere.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by gips »

daughter’s bf was just offered $250k out of college (four years undergrad and a one year ms in cs). i was a director for a pre-faang tech leader, then co-founded a 125 person consulting firm, comp into seven figures and a nice payday when we sold.
kleiner
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by kleiner »

Wannaretireearly wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:39 pm I will need to bookmark this thread for my kids. Too late for me ;)

I belong to the coasters camp with kids. May break $300k TC for the first time this year as an IT manager. Kids take a lot of time (justifiably). Drop offs, pick ups, soccer drop offs, pick ups. Doggy duties etc. All different times for two kids and two working spouses. Couple that with a want to keep stress under control and I’m not too inclined to jump to positions paying higher, but likely with higher risk, stress and time needs.

Once kids are self sufficient I’ll have more actual day time for work. But at that point I’d like to be done! I’m playing the tortoise game, and want to work for at least 5 more years thru most of kids high school. If I can eek out another few years, flying under a relatively easy radar, I’m done. The $400k+ job would be a level or two higher. Director/Sr. Director/VP in tier 2, non FANG-tech

Wind the clock back 10-15 years and I was much more motivated by higher income. I guess that is one side effect of slowly growing a decent looking portfolio. Many roads to Dublin!
This is so familiar! My TC had stalled at $350k when I retired last year (I worked in tech). I could have earned a lot more as a manager but I hate dealing with people and was always an individual contributor. However my wife earns a similar amount and is still working. As a household, we have jointly earned well over $500k for over ten years.

I don't regret not getting into management at all. Like you, I increasingly took on a lot of the household chores and was very happy to be able to help both of my kids get through school and college. I am very happily retired now.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by austin757 »

MAKsdad wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:38 am
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:27 am
MAKsdad wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:21 am
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:19 am Get into environments at school and work that are positive, encourage your educational, personal and professional growth and development, and give you access to opportunities. Avoid all negative, hostile and self-destructive behaviors.
Negative and self-destructive behaviors were part of my success in Big 4....no chance I would've been promoted as quickly if I hadn't participated in the (often significant) drinking culture.
I kinda guessed that part would get pushback. Carry on. :beer
It doesn't make you wrong...I just think a person needs to be aware of the culture they're in and make a conscious decision about what is required to succeed at the highest level. It may or may not be worth it.
I'm fascinated by this. So would it be likely for the more introverted person in the office who typically just says hi and keeps the discussion work related to not get promoted as easily? I would be the one guy to not go out to a restaurant or bar after work.
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beyou
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by beyou »

fortunefavored wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:25 am The whole thread will be full of tech and tech management [including me], doctors and lawyers. Maybe you should exclude those unless that is what you want to hear. These all have well known career tracks.

The other big category is business owners, which tends to be more interesting but a lot of survivorship bias.
Wall Street / Finance careers in major cities such as NYC, London. Note these are VHCOL cities so the $ do not go as far, and high burnout jobs as with tech. Few work to 65 in these careers. Have to make the cash when young enough to do the job and the long commute (or pay high cost to avoid commute).
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by beyou »

HomerJ wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:39 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:22 pm The whole concept of middle management is a joke, but unfortunately also a strong and self-perpetuating corporate culture.
Agreed. "Management" should be hired by the ICs to do all the paperwork the ICs don't want to do.
The most successful and long lasting “middle managers” I know embrace doing the paperwork as quickly as possible and staying as hands on as possible to stay relevant and in touch with the teams responsibilities. Admittedly this is not easy nor common but can be and is done. Those who do not, are eventually made irrelevant (possibly resulting in layoff OR rise to senior management to make even more).
Dusn
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Dusn »

Shael_AT wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:30 pm Tech, been making 300's - 500's since 2015. Super specialized in a handful of emerging and disruptive markets.

Now at the 900 - 1.2 m per year mark, but I'm at the absolute top of what an individual contributor can and will ever be (Think Principal/Distinguished at a company).

Most of that is equity, but we never re-calibrated to live on, want or need more than the base.

What's crazy is, someone can still make more than this, but that requires going into Management, specifically a "m2" or manager of managers, or "m3", which is a Manager (VP/SVP) of M2's.

That is the kind of stress, time sink, anxiety and human interaction I just absolutely do no want. Worst part is, I am both technical and a social butterfly with an extroverts edge + highly empathy and compassion driven, but I have had my first death (of two) in life, i.e. "The Death Of Innocence" recently and am dismayed, discouraged and distressed over who and what most people are, what their motivations are and how quickly they will turn on you the second you do not serve them or their goals.

[Expletive removed by admin LadyGeek] For all you managers out here, I don't know how you can live a fulfilling emotional life with the kinds of decisions and behaviors you must make and ada

Why keep playing harder levels of the game when you have already won
Can someone give an example of what these types of soul sucking decisions that tech managers have to make are and why?
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by MAKsdad »

austin757 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:43 am
MAKsdad wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:38 am
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:27 am
MAKsdad wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:21 am
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:19 am Get into environments at school and work that are positive, encourage your educational, personal and professional growth and development, and give you access to opportunities. Avoid all negative, hostile and self-destructive behaviors.
Negative and self-destructive behaviors were part of my success in Big 4....no chance I would've been promoted as quickly if I hadn't participated in the (often significant) drinking culture.
I kinda guessed that part would get pushback. Carry on. :beer
It doesn't make you wrong...I just think a person needs to be aware of the culture they're in and make a conscious decision about what is required to succeed at the highest level. It may or may not be worth it.
I'm fascinated by this. So would it be likely for the more introverted person in the office who typically just says hi and keeps the discussion work related to not get promoted as easily? I would be the one guy to not go out to a restaurant or bar after work.
I think it all depends on the place you work...certainly not every place is like that. When I started in Big 4 (in 1999), it was very much like an extension of my college fraternity. People got promoted based on the clients they worked on. You got placed on the good clients because (1) you did good work and (2) the partners and managers on those jobs liked you. I did excellent work, but I also partied with the influential partners and managers.

Ultimately, if two people both do good work, the one that's more fun to be around is going to have more success. But good work is still most important.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by MAKsdad »

HomerJ wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:32 pm
MAKsdad wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:42 pm I'd rather make $400k a year for 10 years than $200k a year for 20 years. I hope the reasons are obvious but maybe not?
I'd say maybe not. What if the $400k job required 60 hour weeks, with 24/7 stress and always being available, while the the $200k job required a 40 hour week with very few calls after-hours?

Especially if you have kids.
Well, I mean I think the concept of "24/7 stress and always being available" is total BS and I would never take a job like that in the first place.

But I don't disagree with you that there are always trade offs. But ultimately, I'd rather make more for a shorter duration and then quit working altogether.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by riverant »

beyou wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:00 am
HomerJ wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:39 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:22 pm The whole concept of middle management is a joke, but unfortunately also a strong and self-perpetuating corporate culture.
Agreed. "Management" should be hired by the ICs to do all the paperwork the ICs don't want to do.
The most successful and long lasting “middle managers” I know embrace doing the paperwork as quickly as possible and staying as hands on as possible to stay relevant and in touch with the teams responsibilities. Admittedly this is not easy nor common but can be and is done. Those who do not, are eventually made irrelevant (possibly resulting in layoff OR rise to senior management to make even more).
There’s also a difference (often unrecognized by engineers) between programming orgs and analytical ones. In the latter, the ICs generally have small scopes allowing them to be further into the details. Managers have been top performing ICs who now lead their teams, coach their employees, and do a fair bit of IC work themselves. As one, I have no idea what amount of “paperwork” could exist to justify full time employment.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by fortunefavored »

Dusn wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:59 am
Shael_AT wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:30 pm
[Expletive removed by admin LadyGeek] For all you managers out here, I don't know how you can live a fulfilling emotional life with the kinds of decisions and behaviors you must make and ada
Can someone give an example of what these types of soul sucking decisions that tech managers have to make are and why?
I could rant about it for days. Megacorp tech management is truly soul destroying. The issue, fundamentally, is money. It is a pyramid - the higher up you go, the bigger the compensation stakes.. and the fewer people who can claim those stakes. To be clear, the real evil starts once you get beyond first line manager.. managers generally are shielded from the worst of it.

You must toe the company line 1000%, even if it is terrible and stupid. Then you must constantly be battling politically to fight off all those other people who want to claw up that compensation ladder. Make yourself look good, make other people look bad (although NO ONE would ever admit that was what they were effectively doing.) Or else you're put on the "no future" list and/or pushed out.

Alliances, backstabbing.. it's non-stop. Being forced to spin bad decisions to staff and sell them on it, justifying insane changes in compensation structures, selling terrible company strategic decisions or tactics, creating doomed plans but having no choice but to pretend they were great, deciding who gets laid off for no good reason due to executive management arbitrary targets, stealth performance rankings of individuals that will doom their careers, diversity quotas without daring to say they were diversity quotas.. just on and on.

The higher you go, the worse it is. I honestly think 95% of my peers were sociopaths. They could do this stuff without blinking and think nothing was wrong with it.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by EricaInvestPink »

Two physician household, combined income about $600k. One person full time the other about 70%. No side hustles. Don’t think we’ll ever make much more, heck might start making less soon because both of us plan on scaling back to spend more time with the kids. Our parents (also physicians) expected to work till they died (mostly because they loved what they did) although medical issues took that away from them. “The great resignation” is very real with our generation because I know so many of my peers have a similar mentality as us, and very different than my parents generation.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Sandtrap »

The many that I have known in the past (before tech) were straight out of the book, "Millionare Next Door". (amazon softcover).

Rags to riches. (started from nothing)
Business owners (none were employees for very long)
Self employed and ambitious
Hands on (vs passive) (similar to Ray Croc (McDonalds), started sweeping the floors of own business).

IE: (personally known)
Attorney > Global Corporate Law Firm (owned).
Electrician > Electrical Contracting firm for Fed/State contracts.
Young Welder out of welding school > muffler shops across the state.
Pharmacist > Chain of drug stores.
Farmer > City blocks of R/E apartment buildings and high rises.
Small health food store > Nationwide vitamin/supplement company manufacturer.
Many more.

j :D
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Dave55
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Dave55 »

My own small business. Had the skill set, had the drive, in the right place at the right time, and some luck too.

Dave
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by diydocwifejd »

I married a surgeon :sharebeer
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by vinhodoporto »

A top MBA grad can get to $400k+ if they can tough it out for a few years:

2-3 years if they go the finance route (IB, PE etc)
5-6 years at a MBB consulting firm; a bit longer at a lower ranked firm or big 4
8-10 years if they go the MegaCorp route and get promoted to VP
Tech can be very quick like finance or much slower, depending on RSU appreciation
A lot of people start a business or join a start-up after a few years on the other tracks
BigLaw Survivor
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by BigLaw Survivor »

Biglaw, obviously. But look at my username to get an idea of how much fun that was.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by jharkin »

TheHiker wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:06 pm

A few years ago I was trying to get a mortgage for a small house in a VHCOL area with an income in the 200-250k range, but was laughed out of the bank.
Had to get that 400K+ job just to qualify for a mortgage. Sigh.
Therein lies the difference between HCOL and VHCOL. Im 25 miles outside Boston and you can get into a starter house for 450-550. 2500sq/4BR/3BA forever house is 600-800. I could qualify for the forever house mortgage even without my wife' salary.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by jharkin »

Dusn wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:59 am
Can someone give an example of what these types of soul sucking decisions that tech managers have to make are and why?
When I was a tech manager I often had to provide a list for the quarterly layoffs. Even worse was delivering the news. One guy during hte conversation revealed to me he had cancer and his wife was divorcing him. I had no idea. Wanted to drink myself to sleep that night.

That happened ever single quarter no matter how bad OR good the numbers where. CEO was a big fan of the Jack Welch's style and buddy buddy with a well known Harvard business professor and they would reorganize half the company based on each new management fad. I was glad to get off the hamster wheel after 2 decades and go private.


Granted this is non-FAANG in a very specialized technology niche that doesn't earn anywhere near FAANG salaries and never will. I stay in this low paying niche because unlike the FAANGs who are just sucking our souls and privacy down the drain; in this niche we are contributing to tools that are used to solve big problems in engineering, science, medicine, etc. Seeing the work I do, even very very indirectly, contribute to a technology to fight climate change or treat brain tumors is worth FAR more to me than being paid 7 figures to help make the next Tictok app that rots my kids brain.

But hey that's just me........
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by KyleAAA »

Wanderingwheelz wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:30 pm
KyleAAA wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:16 pm
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:52 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:16 am Very hard to believe any one person in a traditional job is worth this kind of direct compensation. Sure, it happens, but it probably shouldn't.
+1

For that sort of money a person should be a job creator. i.e. a business owner.

A lot of small business owners, if not the vast majority, would rather invest in their company and the workforce that keeps the enterprise performing as well as possible than have some arbitrary earned income to pay taxes on.
I don't know where this notion comes from that only business owners are job creators. That's obviously not true. A good salesperson is clearly a job creator. So is an effective executive or a good marketer. So can be an effective front-line manager or IC, for that matter. In any given company, very few of the jobs are created by the owner.
I didn’t mean to strike such a nerve.

Besides, work from home might end up doing to white collar workers what global manufacturing did to US blue collar workers. $400,000 jobs are quite possibly going to be harder and harder to come by, unless you make your own salary. I’m well aware that notion may not go over well on a forum such as this- where only a small percentage of high earners are signing the front of their paycheck.

Self employment, of one one form or another, may be a better route to financial freedom than ever before.
Maybe, but probably not anytime soon. For the last 15 years the main thing preventing a lot of white collar work from being shipped overseas has been time zones, and I don't see time zones disappearing. In the tech field specifically, there's been a very large push to re-onshore work that had previously been off-shored for various reasons. Turns out the economic benefits never really materialized in all but a few specific use cases.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by diydocwifejd »

BigLaw Survivor wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:22 am Biglaw, obviously. But look at my username to get an idea of how much fun that was.
I went in house after 5 years, and I never looked back. I realized how biglaw had completely warped my view on how most everyone works. It's so demanding on the attorneys' (and their families') time -- I can't imagine how you stuck it out as long as you did :shock:
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