Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
Locked
KyleAAA
Posts: 9498
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by KyleAAA »

LiveSimple wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:54 am Just got interested, what will be $400 K will be for the MCOL midwest ?
College basketball coach, but I hear those positions are fairly competitive.
EddyB
Posts: 2431
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by EddyB »

chazas wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:26 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:47 pm
Goldwater85 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:38 pm I don’t understand all of the Big Law bashing. It’s similar to a residency as far as training and hours (yes, law hours are less predictable), except that it pays much better than a residency.

Then, 3-6 years in, you can bail and make $300-500k as Big Law alum with a good work-life balance. Or keep grinding and make $2-5mm as a Big Law Partner / Corporate GC.

How is that not an enviable offer?
Because the burnout is real, and it is really tough on family life.
And speaking as a long time biglaw partner, that $2-5M is not easy to come by. I’m nowhere near there even though I’m at the top of my field intellectually and reputationally because of a lot of career twists and turns and, well, I’m not a great salesman. The politics are insane, there is always a target on your back. I’m glad I’m about done.
I don't think it should surprise anyone that $2m+ isn't easy to come by! Regardless, the politics/feelings aspect of it depends on your own firm's comp structure and how high you are in the pay distribution, right? We all want more, but if you could be happy with $2m at a firm that has PPP of $4m, I wouldn't expect the politics/target problem to be so bad.
Goldwater85
Posts: 241
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:00 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Goldwater85 »

anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:47 pm
Goldwater85 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:38 pm I don’t understand all of the Big Law bashing. It’s similar to a residency as far as training and hours (yes, law hours are less predictable), except that it pays much better than a residency.

Then, 3-6 years in, you can bail and make $300-500k as Big Law alum with a good work-life balance. Or keep grinding and make $2-5mm as a Big Law Partner / Corporate GC.

How is that not an enviable offer?
Because the burnout is real, and it is really tough on family life.
But most 25-year old JDs (Big Law prefers no job experience because then you’d have a frame of reference) have no kids, just like most 26-year old MDs. The trade in both cases is sacrificing 4 years of your life for great training and tons of flight hours so that you can make $400k+/- without a lot of stress once you finish training. Plus, Big Law pays well while you train.

Idk, I just don’t get why so many lawyers complain about their apprenticeships but doctors don’t.
Firemenot
Posts: 1497
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:48 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Firemenot »

Goldwater85 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:29 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:47 pm
Goldwater85 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:38 pm I don’t understand all of the Big Law bashing. It’s similar to a residency as far as training and hours (yes, law hours are less predictable), except that it pays much better than a residency.

Then, 3-6 years in, you can bail and make $300-500k as Big Law alum with a good work-life balance. Or keep grinding and make $2-5mm as a Big Law Partner / Corporate GC.

How is that not an enviable offer?
Because the burnout is real, and it is really tough on family life.
But most 25-year old JDs (Big Law prefers no job experience because then you’d have a frame of reference) have no kids, just like most 26-year old MDs. The trade in both cases is sacrificing 4 years of your life for great training and tons of flight hours so that you can make $400k+/- without a lot of stress once you finish training. Plus, Big Law pays well while you train.

Idk, I just don’t get why so many lawyers complain about their apprenticeships but doctors don’t.
It’s not just complaints. Mental health issues (including suicide) and substance abuse for attorneys is higher than most professions. There’s something about the nature of the lifestyle. Even a mercenary 4 year training approach and bail can be a long road.
Nathan Drake
Posts: 6234
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:28 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Nathan Drake »

KyleAAA wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:53 am
canadianbacon wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:04 am
Nathan Drake wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:18 pm Is this any surprise?

BigTech is an industry centered around addiction and gambling. The entire focus of this industry is keeping us locked and addicted to our devices, locked and addicted to our social networks, where they can get more and more advertising revenue so the consumer class can continue buying more goods they likely don't need.

It's an industry entirely based on gamification, where the customer is the lever they can use to increase profits. It shouldn't be surprising that Tech management that sees their social ecosystems and platforms of consumers as NUMBERS TO BE GAMED in the name of profit is largely comprised of sociopathic culture.

The name "Tech" gives it a forward and progressive label, when it's largely nothing even close - it prey's on society's most vulnerable and pushes every single button of human nature to accomplish its goal.

That's where the $400k+ salaries are coming from. It's very good at achieving its goal, but to what end...
This was so well put.
Relatively few in big tech are involved with advertising, or even in consumer businesses at all. Most tech workers are building b2b products. Everyone knows Google and Facebook and Apple because they use the products every day, but for example even at Microsoft the large, large majority of the workforce is working on something other than Windows or Xbox. And Amazon's profit driver is AWS, which is strictly b2b. Then you have giants like Salesforce, Oracle, SAP, Paypal, Adobe, ADP, Workday, etc who absolutely dwarf the consumer-facing portion of FAANGs in terms of headcount. Heck, even Wal-Mart has almost as many software engineers as some of the FAANGs. Legacy retail companies like Nordstrom pay pretty well, too, albeit not FAANG-well. $400k salaries are coming from all of those companies, so the above argument is incorrect. Sure, you tend to have to be a bit more senior than at FAANG to hit $400k, but there are ample non-FAANG $400k jobs out there.
The argument is not incorrect. The labor market of SE is impacted by the demand driven by these companies. Take them away, labor pool increases, salaries compress. Supply and demand

Additionally, many of those retail businesses are being fed sales by the addiction to our devices and social networks, it’s still all related.
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
diydocwifejd
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:34 am
Location: South

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by diydocwifejd »

Firemenot wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:54 am
I think a lot of the general public’s misperception about the typical lawyer’s compensation comes from TV and movies.
And their spending habits
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 15122
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by anon_investor »

Firemenot wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:58 am
Goldwater85 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:29 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:47 pm
Goldwater85 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:38 pm I don’t understand all of the Big Law bashing. It’s similar to a residency as far as training and hours (yes, law hours are less predictable), except that it pays much better than a residency.

Then, 3-6 years in, you can bail and make $300-500k as Big Law alum with a good work-life balance. Or keep grinding and make $2-5mm as a Big Law Partner / Corporate GC.

How is that not an enviable offer?
Because the burnout is real, and it is really tough on family life.
But most 25-year old JDs (Big Law prefers no job experience because then you’d have a frame of reference) have no kids, just like most 26-year old MDs. The trade in both cases is sacrificing 4 years of your life for great training and tons of flight hours so that you can make $400k+/- without a lot of stress once you finish training. Plus, Big Law pays well while you train.

Idk, I just don’t get why so many lawyers complain about their apprenticeships but doctors don’t.
It’s not just complaints. Mental health issues (including suicide) and substance abuse for attorneys is higher than most professions. There’s something about the nature of the lifestyle. Even a mercenary 4 year training approach and bail can be a long road.
^^^ this. Plus the 3 years of law school are no cake walk. And folks that go to top14 law schools probably worked hard in HS and college. The burn out factor is real.
visualguy
Posts: 2988
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:32 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by visualguy »

Nathan Drake wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:25 pm
KyleAAA wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:53 am
canadianbacon wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:04 am
Nathan Drake wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:18 pm Is this any surprise?

BigTech is an industry centered around addiction and gambling. The entire focus of this industry is keeping us locked and addicted to our devices, locked and addicted to our social networks, where they can get more and more advertising revenue so the consumer class can continue buying more goods they likely don't need.

It's an industry entirely based on gamification, where the customer is the lever they can use to increase profits. It shouldn't be surprising that Tech management that sees their social ecosystems and platforms of consumers as NUMBERS TO BE GAMED in the name of profit is largely comprised of sociopathic culture.

The name "Tech" gives it a forward and progressive label, when it's largely nothing even close - it prey's on society's most vulnerable and pushes every single button of human nature to accomplish its goal.

That's where the $400k+ salaries are coming from. It's very good at achieving its goal, but to what end...
This was so well put.
Relatively few in big tech are involved with advertising, or even in consumer businesses at all. Most tech workers are building b2b products. Everyone knows Google and Facebook and Apple because they use the products every day, but for example even at Microsoft the large, large majority of the workforce is working on something other than Windows or Xbox. And Amazon's profit driver is AWS, which is strictly b2b. Then you have giants like Salesforce, Oracle, SAP, Paypal, Adobe, ADP, Workday, etc who absolutely dwarf the consumer-facing portion of FAANGs in terms of headcount. Heck, even Wal-Mart has almost as many software engineers as some of the FAANGs. Legacy retail companies like Nordstrom pay pretty well, too, albeit not FAANG-well. $400k salaries are coming from all of those companies, so the above argument is incorrect. Sure, you tend to have to be a bit more senior than at FAANG to hit $400k, but there are ample non-FAANG $400k jobs out there.
The argument is not incorrect. The labor market of SE is impacted by the demand driven by these companies. Take them away, labor pool increases, salaries compress. Supply and demand

Additionally, many of those retail businesses are being fed sales by the addiction to our devices and social networks, it’s still all related.
You can look at what it was like in the SE field 20 years ago to get a sense of this. Compensation was a lot lower, job security was worse, age discrimination was more prevalent, and people were terrified of offshoring and outsourcing. The transformation that happened in this field since then is very striking.
sents13
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:06 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by sents13 »

Nathan Drake wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:18 pm
Is this any surprise?

BigTech is an industry centered around addiction and gambling. The entire focus of this industry is keeping us locked and addicted to our devices, locked and addicted to our social networks, where they can get more and more advertising revenue so the consumer class can continue buying more goods they likely don't need.

It's an industry entirely based on gamification, where the customer is the lever they can use to increase profits. It shouldn't be surprising that Tech management that sees their social ecosystems and platforms of consumers as NUMBERS TO BE GAMED in the name of profit is largely comprised of sociopathic culture.

The name "Tech" gives it a forward and progressive label, when it's largely nothing even close - it prey's on society's most vulnerable and pushes every single button of human nature to accomplish its goal.

That's where the $400k+ salaries are coming from. It's very good at achieving its goal, but to what end...
Now, now... no need to be salty. Instead of looking down, maybe try to join the crowd. I don't have a tech background and forced my way in through a lot of work. We're discussing paths to get to $400k+ and my opinion is amongst big law, big med, big finance, big tech, big consulting... tech has the highest ROI and best WLB.
Last edited by sents13 on Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nathan Drake
Posts: 6234
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:28 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Nathan Drake »

visualguy wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:42 pm
Nathan Drake wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:25 pm
KyleAAA wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:53 am
canadianbacon wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:04 am
Nathan Drake wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:18 pm Is this any surprise?

BigTech is an industry centered around addiction and gambling. The entire focus of this industry is keeping us locked and addicted to our devices, locked and addicted to our social networks, where they can get more and more advertising revenue so the consumer class can continue buying more goods they likely don't need.

It's an industry entirely based on gamification, where the customer is the lever they can use to increase profits. It shouldn't be surprising that Tech management that sees their social ecosystems and platforms of consumers as NUMBERS TO BE GAMED in the name of profit is largely comprised of sociopathic culture.

The name "Tech" gives it a forward and progressive label, when it's largely nothing even close - it prey's on society's most vulnerable and pushes every single button of human nature to accomplish its goal.

That's where the $400k+ salaries are coming from. It's very good at achieving its goal, but to what end...
This was so well put.
Relatively few in big tech are involved with advertising, or even in consumer businesses at all. Most tech workers are building b2b products. Everyone knows Google and Facebook and Apple because they use the products every day, but for example even at Microsoft the large, large majority of the workforce is working on something other than Windows or Xbox. And Amazon's profit driver is AWS, which is strictly b2b. Then you have giants like Salesforce, Oracle, SAP, Paypal, Adobe, ADP, Workday, etc who absolutely dwarf the consumer-facing portion of FAANGs in terms of headcount. Heck, even Wal-Mart has almost as many software engineers as some of the FAANGs. Legacy retail companies like Nordstrom pay pretty well, too, albeit not FAANG-well. $400k salaries are coming from all of those companies, so the above argument is incorrect. Sure, you tend to have to be a bit more senior than at FAANG to hit $400k, but there are ample non-FAANG $400k jobs out there.
The argument is not incorrect. The labor market of SE is impacted by the demand driven by these companies. Take them away, labor pool increases, salaries compress. Supply and demand

Additionally, many of those retail businesses are being fed sales by the addiction to our devices and social networks, it’s still all related.
You can look at what it was like in the SE field 20 years ago to get a sense of this. Compensation was a lot lower, job security was worse, age discrimination was more prevalent, and people were terrified of offshoring and outsourcing. The transformation that happened in this field since then is very striking.
Indeed. They’d be more in line with other professions that require similar educational requirements and rigor (non-software engineering disciplines).
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
sents13
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:06 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by sents13 »

scientist_87 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:32 pm I work in tech as I.C. with PhD in STEM and 6+ yoe. Recently landed a job with 400k+ TC. I don't know for how many years I can sustain this income. For folks who have been making 400k+ for several years, how long does it take to reach 5M NW ?
You can do the math and project your savings/portfolio, excel is your friend. Project your earnings, expenses, get savings and assumed some portfolio return. I'm still at least 10 years away before I can fatFIRE, and I haven't even earned $400k yet.
Nathan Drake
Posts: 6234
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:28 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Nathan Drake »

sents13 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:57 pm
Nathan Drake wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:18 pm
Is this any surprise?

BigTech is an industry centered around addiction and gambling. The entire focus of this industry is keeping us locked and addicted to our devices, locked and addicted to our social networks, where they can get more and more advertising revenue so the consumer class can continue buying more goods they likely don't need.

It's an industry entirely based on gamification, where the customer is the lever they can use to increase profits. It shouldn't be surprising that Tech management that sees their social ecosystems and platforms of consumers as NUMBERS TO BE GAMED in the name of profit is largely comprised of sociopathic culture.

The name "Tech" gives it a forward and progressive label, when it's largely nothing even close - it prey's on society's most vulnerable and pushes every single button of human nature to accomplish its goal.

That's where the $400k+ salaries are coming from. It's very good at achieving its goal, but to what end...
Now, now... no need to be salty. Instead of looking down, maybe try to join the crowd. I don't have a tech background and forced my way in through a lot of work.
Not salty at all, we all get to choose what industries we’d like to work in, some sacrificing lots of $$$ for work that’s far more interesting or will impact society in a more positive way. Some chase $$$ and don’t care about the ethics.

You can make a lot of money doing things that are very hazardous to society at large, just look at many parts of financial services as an example.
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
chazas
Posts: 853
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:22 pm
Location: NoVa

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by chazas »

EddyB wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:01 am
chazas wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:26 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:47 pm
Goldwater85 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:38 pm I don’t understand all of the Big Law bashing. It’s similar to a residency as far as training and hours (yes, law hours are less predictable), except that it pays much better than a residency.

Then, 3-6 years in, you can bail and make $300-500k as Big Law alum with a good work-life balance. Or keep grinding and make $2-5mm as a Big Law Partner / Corporate GC.

How is that not an enviable offer?
Because the burnout is real, and it is really tough on family life.
And speaking as a long time biglaw partner, that $2-5M is not easy to come by. I’m nowhere near there even though I’m at the top of my field intellectually and reputationally because of a lot of career twists and turns and, well, I’m not a great salesman. The politics are insane, there is always a target on your back. I’m glad I’m about done.
I don't think it should surprise anyone that $2m+ isn't easy to come by! Regardless, the politics/feelings aspect of it depends on your own firm's comp structure and how high you are in the pay distribution, right? We all want more, but if you could be happy with $2m at a firm that has PPP of $4m, I wouldn't expect the politics/target problem to be so bad.
Well, I would just disagree. Constant pressure to originate business, bill tons of personal hours, handle hundreds of hours a year of administrative stuff, and every time anything slips just a little your value is questioned. And this is in a relatively humane firm.
KyleAAA
Posts: 9498
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by KyleAAA »

Nathan Drake wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:25 pm
KyleAAA wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:53 am
canadianbacon wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:04 am
Nathan Drake wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:18 pm Is this any surprise?

BigTech is an industry centered around addiction and gambling. The entire focus of this industry is keeping us locked and addicted to our devices, locked and addicted to our social networks, where they can get more and more advertising revenue so the consumer class can continue buying more goods they likely don't need.

It's an industry entirely based on gamification, where the customer is the lever they can use to increase profits. It shouldn't be surprising that Tech management that sees their social ecosystems and platforms of consumers as NUMBERS TO BE GAMED in the name of profit is largely comprised of sociopathic culture.

The name "Tech" gives it a forward and progressive label, when it's largely nothing even close - it prey's on society's most vulnerable and pushes every single button of human nature to accomplish its goal.

That's where the $400k+ salaries are coming from. It's very good at achieving its goal, but to what end...
This was so well put.
Relatively few in big tech are involved with advertising, or even in consumer businesses at all. Most tech workers are building b2b products. Everyone knows Google and Facebook and Apple because they use the products every day, but for example even at Microsoft the large, large majority of the workforce is working on something other than Windows or Xbox. And Amazon's profit driver is AWS, which is strictly b2b. Then you have giants like Salesforce, Oracle, SAP, Paypal, Adobe, ADP, Workday, etc who absolutely dwarf the consumer-facing portion of FAANGs in terms of headcount. Heck, even Wal-Mart has almost as many software engineers as some of the FAANGs. Legacy retail companies like Nordstrom pay pretty well, too, albeit not FAANG-well. $400k salaries are coming from all of those companies, so the above argument is incorrect. Sure, you tend to have to be a bit more senior than at FAANG to hit $400k, but there are ample non-FAANG $400k jobs out there.
The argument is not incorrect. The labor market of SE is impacted by the demand driven by these companies. Take them away, labor pool increases, salaries compress. Supply and demand

Additionally, many of those retail businesses are being fed sales by the addiction to our devices and social networks, it’s still all related.
It is incorrect. If you take any segment of talent demand away it will decrease wages. If enterprise cloud disappeared tomorrow, pay would plummet (AWS, Azure, and GCP tend to pay more than other divisions at those companies after all). If ERP/CRM disappeared tomorrow, pay would plummet. If productivity disappeared tomorrow, pay would plummet. FAANGs don't tend to be the top paying companies in their markets, although they are by far the single largest high-paying employees in those markets.
User avatar
CliveStaples
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:19 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by CliveStaples »

To answer OP, I had a similar sudden rise in income, but this is typical for MD/DOs. Total compensation went from 50-60k to now around 400-450k. I do work about 40-50 hrs/wk for this, including nights/weekends/holidays. I could scale back my hours to 30-40/wk and make more like 300-350k but I have the energy for it right now and want to purchase the freedom to cut back later. I'm thankful for what I have, but I do recognize that there is little upward mobility in terms of my income unless I vie to become department chair or CMO one day.
1) Get informed 2) Make a plan 3) Stick to it | | The first step is crucial to succeeding at the last step.
Nathan Drake
Posts: 6234
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:28 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Nathan Drake »

KyleAAA wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:24 pm
Nathan Drake wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:25 pm
KyleAAA wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:53 am
canadianbacon wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:04 am
Nathan Drake wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:18 pm Is this any surprise?

BigTech is an industry centered around addiction and gambling. The entire focus of this industry is keeping us locked and addicted to our devices, locked and addicted to our social networks, where they can get more and more advertising revenue so the consumer class can continue buying more goods they likely don't need.

It's an industry entirely based on gamification, where the customer is the lever they can use to increase profits. It shouldn't be surprising that Tech management that sees their social ecosystems and platforms of consumers as NUMBERS TO BE GAMED in the name of profit is largely comprised of sociopathic culture.

The name "Tech" gives it a forward and progressive label, when it's largely nothing even close - it prey's on society's most vulnerable and pushes every single button of human nature to accomplish its goal.

That's where the $400k+ salaries are coming from. It's very good at achieving its goal, but to what end...
This was so well put.
Relatively few in big tech are involved with advertising, or even in consumer businesses at all. Most tech workers are building b2b products. Everyone knows Google and Facebook and Apple because they use the products every day, but for example even at Microsoft the large, large majority of the workforce is working on something other than Windows or Xbox. And Amazon's profit driver is AWS, which is strictly b2b. Then you have giants like Salesforce, Oracle, SAP, Paypal, Adobe, ADP, Workday, etc who absolutely dwarf the consumer-facing portion of FAANGs in terms of headcount. Heck, even Wal-Mart has almost as many software engineers as some of the FAANGs. Legacy retail companies like Nordstrom pay pretty well, too, albeit not FAANG-well. $400k salaries are coming from all of those companies, so the above argument is incorrect. Sure, you tend to have to be a bit more senior than at FAANG to hit $400k, but there are ample non-FAANG $400k jobs out there.
The argument is not incorrect. The labor market of SE is impacted by the demand driven by these companies. Take them away, labor pool increases, salaries compress. Supply and demand

Additionally, many of those retail businesses are being fed sales by the addiction to our devices and social networks, it’s still all related.
If you take any segment of talent demand away it will decrease wages.
Correct. Glad we agree
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
EddyB
Posts: 2431
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by EddyB »

chazas wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:06 pm
EddyB wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:01 am
chazas wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:26 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:47 pm
Goldwater85 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:38 pm I don’t understand all of the Big Law bashing. It’s similar to a residency as far as training and hours (yes, law hours are less predictable), except that it pays much better than a residency.

Then, 3-6 years in, you can bail and make $300-500k as Big Law alum with a good work-life balance. Or keep grinding and make $2-5mm as a Big Law Partner / Corporate GC.

How is that not an enviable offer?
Because the burnout is real, and it is really tough on family life.
And speaking as a long time biglaw partner, that $2-5M is not easy to come by. I’m nowhere near there even though I’m at the top of my field intellectually and reputationally because of a lot of career twists and turns and, well, I’m not a great salesman. The politics are insane, there is always a target on your back. I’m glad I’m about done.
I don't think it should surprise anyone that $2m+ isn't easy to come by! Regardless, the politics/feelings aspect of it depends on your own firm's comp structure and how high you are in the pay distribution, right? We all want more, but if you could be happy with $2m at a firm that has PPP of $4m, I wouldn't expect the politics/target problem to be so bad.
Well, I would just disagree. Constant pressure to originate business, bill tons of personal hours, handle hundreds of hours a year of administrative stuff, and every time anything slips just a little your value is questioned. And this is in a relatively humane firm.
No need to call it a disagreement; we've just had very different experiences. Nonetheless I can relate to being glad to be nearly done and wish you the best for a great post-firm life.
KyleAAA
Posts: 9498
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by KyleAAA »

Nathan Drake wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:40 pm
KyleAAA wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:24 pm
Nathan Drake wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:25 pm
KyleAAA wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:53 am
canadianbacon wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:04 am

This was so well put.
Relatively few in big tech are involved with advertising, or even in consumer businesses at all. Most tech workers are building b2b products. Everyone knows Google and Facebook and Apple because they use the products every day, but for example even at Microsoft the large, large majority of the workforce is working on something other than Windows or Xbox. And Amazon's profit driver is AWS, which is strictly b2b. Then you have giants like Salesforce, Oracle, SAP, Paypal, Adobe, ADP, Workday, etc who absolutely dwarf the consumer-facing portion of FAANGs in terms of headcount. Heck, even Wal-Mart has almost as many software engineers as some of the FAANGs. Legacy retail companies like Nordstrom pay pretty well, too, albeit not FAANG-well. $400k salaries are coming from all of those companies, so the above argument is incorrect. Sure, you tend to have to be a bit more senior than at FAANG to hit $400k, but there are ample non-FAANG $400k jobs out there.
The argument is not incorrect. The labor market of SE is impacted by the demand driven by these companies. Take them away, labor pool increases, salaries compress. Supply and demand

Additionally, many of those retail businesses are being fed sales by the addiction to our devices and social networks, it’s still all related.
If you take any segment of talent demand away it will decrease wages.
Correct. Glad we agree
lol we do not
Hoosier CPA
Posts: 512
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:43 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Hoosier CPA »

canadianbacon wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:04 am
Nathan Drake wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:18 pm Is this any surprise?

BigTech is an industry centered around addiction and gambling. The entire focus of this industry is keeping us locked and addicted to our devices, locked and addicted to our social networks, where they can get more and more advertising revenue so the consumer class can continue buying more goods they likely don't need.

It's an industry entirely based on gamification, where the customer is the lever they can use to increase profits. It shouldn't be surprising that Tech management that sees their social ecosystems and platforms of consumers as NUMBERS TO BE GAMED in the name of profit is largely comprised of sociopathic culture.

The name "Tech" gives it a forward and progressive label, when it's largely nothing even close - it prey's on society's most vulnerable and pushes every single button of human nature to accomplish its goal.

That's where the $400k+ salaries are coming from. It's very good at achieving its goal, but to what end...
This was so well put.
X2.
Afty
Posts: 2390
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Afty »

Nathan Drake wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:03 pm
Not salty at all, we all get to choose what industries we’d like to work in, some sacrificing lots of $$$ for work that’s far more interesting or will impact society in a more positive way. Some chase $$$ and don’t care about the ethics.

You can make a lot of money doing things that are very hazardous to society at large, just look at many parts of financial services as an example.
I’ve worked for 2 of the tech giants and one small software company. My experience is that the top companies have the most interesting work and are more ethical than small companies, who can get away with fairly egregious things because no one is paying attention to them. Regarding the work, I guess it depends on your interests but there are certain areas where you basically need to be at one of these top companies to do novel work, ML for example. I worked on a popular programming language at one of these companies; how many medium to small tech companies build their own programming languages?
chazas
Posts: 853
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:22 pm
Location: NoVa

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by chazas »

EddyB wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:51 pm
chazas wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:06 pm
EddyB wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:01 am
chazas wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:26 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:47 pm

Because the burnout is real, and it is really tough on family life.
And speaking as a long time biglaw partner, that $2-5M is not easy to come by. I’m nowhere near there even though I’m at the top of my field intellectually and reputationally because of a lot of career twists and turns and, well, I’m not a great salesman. The politics are insane, there is always a target on your back. I’m glad I’m about done.
I don't think it should surprise anyone that $2m+ isn't easy to come by! Regardless, the politics/feelings aspect of it depends on your own firm's comp structure and how high you are in the pay distribution, right? We all want more, but if you could be happy with $2m at a firm that has PPP of $4m, I wouldn't expect the politics/target problem to be so bad.
Well, I would just disagree. Constant pressure to originate business, bill tons of personal hours, handle hundreds of hours a year of administrative stuff, and every time anything slips just a little your value is questioned. And this is in a relatively humane firm.
No need to call it a disagreement; we've just had very different experiences. Nonetheless I can relate to being glad to be nearly done and wish you the best for a great post-firm life.
If my comp level was $2M I might have different things to say, lol.
harrychan
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:37 pm
Location: Pasadena

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by harrychan »

Dusn wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:59 am
Shael_AT wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:30 pm Tech, been making 300's - 500's since 2015. Super specialized in a handful of emerging and disruptive markets.

Now at the 900 - 1.2 m per year mark, but I'm at the absolute top of what an individual contributor can and will ever be (Think Principal/Distinguished at a company).

Most of that is equity, but we never re-calibrated to live on, want or need more than the base.

What's crazy is, someone can still make more than this, but that requires going into Management, specifically a "m2" or manager of managers, or "m3", which is a Manager (VP/SVP) of M2's.

That is the kind of stress, time sink, anxiety and human interaction I just absolutely do no want. Worst part is, I am both technical and a social butterfly with an extroverts edge + highly empathy and compassion driven, but I have had my first death (of two) in life, i.e. "The Death Of Innocence" recently and am dismayed, discouraged and distressed over who and what most people are, what their motivations are and how quickly they will turn on you the second you do not serve them or their goals.

[Expletive removed by admin LadyGeek] For all you managers out here, I don't know how you can live a fulfilling emotional life with the kinds of decisions and behaviors you must make and adapt.

Why keep playing harder levels of the game when you have already won
Can someone give an example of what these types of soul sucking decisions that tech managers have to make are and why?
-Firing, layoff, re-org
-Fielding and responding to HR complaints from DR, peers
-Being sued for discrimination or being subpoenaed for court hearing
-Decisions that cost a contract which can be in the millions
-Prioritizing customers which ends up being the wrong one
-Political battles yielding favor from SVP+, C levels
-Petty brag-offs
-Back stabbing, taking credit for your work and ideas
-Disgruntled exceptional employees who jump ship to other team or company

Should I go on?
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
User avatar
HomerJ
Posts: 21281
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by HomerJ »

harrychan wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:29 pm
Dusn wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:59 am
Shael_AT wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:30 pm Tech, been making 300's - 500's since 2015. Super specialized in a handful of emerging and disruptive markets.

Now at the 900 - 1.2 m per year mark, but I'm at the absolute top of what an individual contributor can and will ever be (Think Principal/Distinguished at a company).

Most of that is equity, but we never re-calibrated to live on, want or need more than the base.

What's crazy is, someone can still make more than this, but that requires going into Management, specifically a "m2" or manager of managers, or "m3", which is a Manager (VP/SVP) of M2's.

That is the kind of stress, time sink, anxiety and human interaction I just absolutely do no want. Worst part is, I am both technical and a social butterfly with an extroverts edge + highly empathy and compassion driven, but I have had my first death (of two) in life, i.e. "The Death Of Innocence" recently and am dismayed, discouraged and distressed over who and what most people are, what their motivations are and how quickly they will turn on you the second you do not serve them or their goals.

[Expletive removed by admin LadyGeek] For all you managers out here, I don't know how you can live a fulfilling emotional life with the kinds of decisions and behaviors you must make and adapt.

Why keep playing harder levels of the game when you have already won
Can someone give an example of what these types of soul sucking decisions that tech managers have to make are and why?
-Firing, layoff, re-org
-Fielding and responding to HR complaints from DR, peers
-Being sued for discrimination or being subpoenaed for court hearing
-Decisions that cost a contract which can be in the millions
-Prioritizing customers which ends up being the wrong one
-Political battles yielding favor from SVP+, C levels
-Petty brag-offs
-Back stabbing, taking credit for your work and ideas
-Disgruntled exceptional employees who jump ship to other team or company

Should I go on?
I think the worst part of being middle management is having to force bad ideas/procedures on the worker bees, who complain that they are bad, and you actually agree with your people, but you don't have the power to push back to the top-level managers, and you have to pretend to agree with the new policies.

In the back of your mind, you probably think "When I get the powerful position, THEN I can make better decisions", but it sure seems like something breaks after a few years of internalizing and rationalizing those bad decisions, and you end up as a bad decision maker yourself when you finally get promoted to top management.
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
piper
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:05 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by piper »

One thing I have not seen on here yet is construction. I know 60+ people at a company that all make 400K+. Most are field guys that are small share owners. The highest education level for many would be 2 years of vocational school. There are fewer people in the office but the project managers all make north of 400K. Its amazing how many people in the trades can make huge money with hard work and hand skills. Don't get me wrong, these are very smart people but college was not their thing and found a place that rewarded their efforts. There is a lot of money in construction. I personally have reached my peak earning years. With my hourly wage, earnings from my small part of the company, and selling an even smaller share of the company my income was 1.9 million last year. Not too bad for a person that completed two years of college and hated it. I'm in my late 40's and ready to hang it up. It was not easy but now I have plenty of money to go have a life. There are many roads to Dublin as they say.
HopeToGolf
Posts: 410
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:04 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by HopeToGolf »

piper wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:23 pm One thing I have not seen on here yet is construction. I know 60+ people at a company that all make 400K+. Most are field guys that are small share owners. The highest education level for many would be 2 years of vocational school. There are fewer people in the office but the project managers all make north of 400K. Its amazing how many people in the trades can make huge money with hard work and hand skills. Don't get me wrong, these are very smart people but college was not their thing and found a place that rewarded their efforts. There is a lot of money in construction. I personally have reached my peak earning years. With my hourly wage, earnings from my small part of the company, and selling an even smaller share of the company my income was 1.9 million last year. Not too bad for a person that completed two years of college and hated it. I'm in my late 40's and ready to hang it up. It was not easy but now I have plenty of money to go have a life. There are many roads to Dublin as they say.
This.

I am fairly sure my plumber and electrician both make >$400K. They are small business owners so I guess they have been covered somewhere above.

On a related note, there are so many kids who should bail on college and learn a trade. They will make far more money and society needs them.
newyorker
Posts: 1635
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 7:59 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by newyorker »

HopeToGolf wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:54 pm
piper wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:23 pm One thing I have not seen on here yet is construction. I know 60+ people at a company that all make 400K+. Most are field guys that are small share owners. The highest education level for many would be 2 years of vocational school. There are fewer people in the office but the project managers all make north of 400K. Its amazing how many people in the trades can make huge money with hard work and hand skills. Don't get me wrong, these are very smart people but college was not their thing and found a place that rewarded their efforts. There is a lot of money in construction. I personally have reached my peak earning years. With my hourly wage, earnings from my small part of the company, and selling an even smaller share of the company my income was 1.9 million last year. Not too bad for a person that completed two years of college and hated it. I'm in my late 40's and ready to hang it up. It was not easy but now I have plenty of money to go have a life. There are many roads to Dublin as they say.
This.

I am fairly sure my plumber and electrician both make >$400K. They are small business owners so I guess they have been covered somewhere above.

On a related note, there are so many kids who should bail on college and learn a trade. They will make far more money and society needs them.
Too many people wasting too much time and money with BS degrees... gender studies? Com'on now!
Krui24
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:17 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Krui24 »

anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:20 pm Don't you have to do pretty well in undergrad to get into a top business school?
MBA schools are not nearly as concerned with academic performance as law schools. They look for diverse backgrounds and leadership ability. They publish their average GPAs and GMAT scores (e.g. Harvard Business School average 3.7 GPA and i'm sure there are plenty of 4.0's so there have to be plenty of sub-3.5s; Harvard Law is average 3.9 so it's a much tighter spread)

Probably 50% of the MBA class is the boilerplate background of excellent grades at a top undergrad school + pedigreed work experience, but the other 50% is a broad diversity of backgrounds - e.g. military, professional athletes, Peace Corps volunteers, entrepreneurs, journalists, non-profit, family businesses, playwrights, music producers, a handful of JDs or MDs.

For MBA admission, you have to have a story to tell, but it doesn't all have to be about a 4.0 GPA.
anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:20 pm Also what is a top business school? (serious questions, I only know about law schools)
Most would consider Harvard, Stanford, and Wharton to be top-3 but also strong contenders are Northwestern, Chicago, Columbia, MIT, Yale, Dartmouth, Berkeley
Last edited by Krui24 on Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 15122
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by anon_investor »

piper wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:23 pm One thing I have not seen on here yet is construction. I know 60+ people at a company that all make 400K+. Most are field guys that are small share owners. The highest education level for many would be 2 years of vocational school. There are fewer people in the office but the project managers all make north of 400K. Its amazing how many people in the trades can make huge money with hard work and hand skills. Don't get me wrong, these are very smart people but college was not their thing and found a place that rewarded their efforts. There is a lot of money in construction. I personally have reached my peak earning years. With my hourly wage, earnings from my small part of the company, and selling an even smaller share of the company my income was 1.9 million last year. Not too bad for a person that completed two years of college and hated it. I'm in my late 40's and ready to hang it up. It was not easy but now I have plenty of money to go have a life. There are many roads to Dublin as they say.
:sharebeer congrats.
harrychan
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:37 pm
Location: Pasadena

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by harrychan »

HomerJ wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:59 pm
harrychan wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:29 pm
-Firing, layoff, re-org
-Fielding and responding to HR complaints from DR, peers
-Being sued for discrimination or being subpoenaed for court hearing
-Decisions that cost a contract which can be in the millions
-Prioritizing customers which ends up being the wrong one
-Political battles yielding favor from SVP+, C levels
-Petty brag-offs
-Back stabbing, taking credit for your work and ideas
-Disgruntled exceptional employees who jump ship to other team or company

Should I go on?
I think the worst part of being middle management is having to force bad ideas/procedures on the worker bees, who complain that they are bad, and you actually agree with your people, but you don't have the power to push back to the top-level managers, and you have to pretend to agree with the new policies.

In the back of your mind, you probably think "When I get the powerful position, THEN I can make better decisions", but it sure seems like something breaks after a few years of internalizing and rationalizing those bad decisions, and you end up as a bad decision maker yourself when you finally get promoted to top management.
Agree. Fortunately, that has only happened maybe twice. First when we outsourced our delivery organization and again when we re-orged and moved all our PMO under a shared services. If it keeps happening, then I would say it is time to find a new job.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
vinhodoporto
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by vinhodoporto »

chazas wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:06 pm Constant pressure to originate business, bill tons of personal hours, handle hundreds of hours a year of administrative stuff, and every time anything slips just a little your value is questioned. And this is in a relatively humane firm.
Sounds like life at a big consulting firm
harrychan
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:37 pm
Location: Pasadena

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by harrychan »

Healthcare IT mid-manager. I'm not at $400k but a bit over half of it in TC excluding pension, healthcare benefits. Add that up and I come close to $300k. I'm now in a good spot where I have little to no stress, work roughly 35-40 hours a week and do not need to carry my phone 24 x 7.

Also, contrary to other tech responses, I am not in software nor am I super technical but I can speak it. This is the formula I used to get to where I am.

1) Take on complex chaotic work. Where there is chaos there is opportunity. Grab it.
2) Look out for yourself. Ask your manager why you didn't get a promotion or the rating you expected. Ask what it will take to get to the next level.
3) If current environment doesn't challenge or help you grow, leave. Go to another group or better, another company. My base went up 45% by switching to this job.
4) Find people you admire and learn from them. See how they charted their path to get there.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 15122
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by anon_investor »

vinhodoporto wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:00 pm
chazas wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:06 pm Constant pressure to originate business, bill tons of personal hours, handle hundreds of hours a year of administrative stuff, and every time anything slips just a little your value is questioned. And this is in a relatively humane firm.
Sounds like life at a big consulting firm
Biglaw is a lot like big consulting. You couldn't pay me enough to go back to biglaw.
Tigranes
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:15 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Tigranes »

NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:56 pm
Tigranes wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:56 am Chief actuary at a mid sized insurer.

You generally need to be at least VP or SVP/Officer level to make over the 400k in this industry. Most, maybe 80%, of execs in insurance that I am familiar with got there through networking. Not to say they aren't hard working and diligent people, but certainly not deserving of some olympian analogy.
Some folks at Milliman make >$50M when they cash out.
Being an actuary in that context is incidental. Even for CEOs that is an unusual transaction.

Searching edgar for named executive compensation is informative. For non-public insurers, you can sometimes find the "Supplemental Compensation Exhibit" which will show compensation for the 10 highest paid employees.
Ni0ck
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:12 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Ni0ck »

MAKsdad wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:19 am Accounting major
Big 4 audit firm right out of college (making $37k)
Promoted up through Sr. Mgr. (total comp at that point was just under $200 w/ bonus)
Left for a VP of Internal Audit position at a F500 (total comp including base, bonus & equity is targeted around $500k annually)
Hi Maksdad, I'm starting at Big 4 Accounting in January. First Year Associate. You mentioned that you succeed by doing excellent work. Help me out with this one. What is something a new associate does that impresses you? What does "excellent" work look like?

Thank you for your time. Happy retirement
Nathan Drake
Posts: 6234
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:28 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Nathan Drake »

Ni0ck wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:27 pm
MAKsdad wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:19 am Accounting major
Big 4 audit firm right out of college (making $37k)
Promoted up through Sr. Mgr. (total comp at that point was just under $200 w/ bonus)
Left for a VP of Internal Audit position at a F500 (total comp including base, bonus & equity is targeted around $500k annually)
Hi Maksdad, I'm starting at Big 4 Accounting in January. First Year Associate. You mentioned that you succeed by doing excellent work. Help me out with this one. What is something a new associate does that impresses you? What does "excellent" work look like?

Thank you for your time. Happy retirement
Drinking a lot, allegedly
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
User avatar
FlatSix
Posts: 331
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:37 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by FlatSix »

Goldwater85 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:29 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:47 pm
Goldwater85 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:38 pm I don’t understand all of the Big Law bashing. It’s similar to a residency as far as training and hours (yes, law hours are less predictable), except that it pays much better than a residency.

Then, 3-6 years in, you can bail and make $300-500k as Big Law alum with a good work-life balance. Or keep grinding and make $2-5mm as a Big Law Partner / Corporate GC.

How is that not an enviable offer?
Because the burnout is real, and it is really tough on family life.
But most 25-year old JDs (Big Law prefers no job experience because then you’d have a frame of reference) have no kids, just like most 26-year old MDs. The trade in both cases is sacrificing 4 years of your life for great training and tons of flight hours so that you can make $400k+/- without a lot of stress once you finish training. Plus, Big Law pays well while you train.

Idk, I just don’t get why so many lawyers complain about their apprenticeships but doctors don’t.
Oh physicians complain about residency plenty. Constant talk about mental health, burnout, unionizing, suicide rates.

The “without a lot of stress once you finish” statement also doesn’t sound like medicine at all. Most of the fellow physicians I know harbor plenty of stress.
bltn
Posts: 1844
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:32 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by bltn »

Very interesting thread regarding the comments about several highly paid fields of work.

Burn out is an interesting concept. Caused by excessive stress? And stress. Caused by excessive challenge? And without challenge, is there boredom, causing another kind of stress? And eventually burnout? Maybe stress/burnout is due in some part to a personal perspective.

Without challenge requiring personal aptitude for the job and a willingness to work hard, why would compensation be high?

Perhaps an important part of maintaining a long successful career is finding a job that involves an acceptable amount of stress.
austin757
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:48 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by austin757 »

bltn wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:15 am Very interesting thread regarding the comments about several highly paid fields of work.

Burn out is an interesting concept. Caused by excessive stress? And stress. Caused by excessive challenge? And without challenge, is there boredom, causing another kind of stress? And eventually burnout? Maybe stress/burnout is due in some part to a personal perspective.

Without challenge requiring personal aptitude for the job and a willingness to work hard, why would compensation be high?

Perhaps an important part of maintaining a long successful career is finding a job that involves an acceptable amount of stress.
It seems that high paying sales jobs will always come with some stress. Even if you're doing great, I'm sure the thought of performing to a higher standard and meeting your sales goals is always in the back of your mind. Probably those who are best at it live off that stress and harness it to never stop.
alfaspider
Posts: 4816
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by alfaspider »

bltn wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:15 am Very interesting thread regarding the comments about several highly paid fields of work.

Burn out is an interesting concept. Caused by excessive stress? And stress. Caused by excessive challenge? And without challenge, is there boredom, causing another kind of stress? And eventually burnout? Maybe stress/burnout is due in some part to a personal perspective.

Without challenge requiring personal aptitude for the job and a willingness to work hard, why would compensation be high?

Perhaps an important part of maintaining a long successful career is finding a job that involves an acceptable amount of stress.
Challenge is not the same thing as stress. A challenge could be a difficult goal. Now combine that difficult goal with someone shouting over your shoulder and second guessing your every move. That’s stress.
Osterix
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:55 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Osterix »

Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:11 am
diabelli wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:39 am
Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:35 am
cncm wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:37 am medicine - those are pretty standard careers where you’ll easily make that much within a few years
Most doctors don't make $400,000. These days specialists make between $200,000 to $300,000 a year. Maybe neurosurgery or plastics will get you at $400,000. Physicians who own their own practices have seen for decades decreased pay from insurance companies. It is simply not financially worth it these days to specialize.
I'll also chime in to say that this isn't my experience.
Academia these numbers are somewhat accurate.
A thriving private group gets partners 500k-1mil in medical subspecialties and likely 700k-1.2mil in surgical specialties. This is true even in the northeast. Of course there are some groups which aren't doing so well, or which pull along employees paying them 300-400k for years before letting them into the bigger money.
You have to open your own practice. Corporate does not pay 500k- 1 million per year.
I’m an independent contractor sub-specialty surgeon. Total compensation approximately $550k for 10 days/month.
chudat
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:38 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by chudat »

Osterix wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:10 am
Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:11 am
diabelli wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:39 am
Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:35 am
cncm wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:37 am medicine - those are pretty standard careers where you’ll easily make that much within a few years
Most doctors don't make $400,000. These days specialists make between $200,000 to $300,000 a year. Maybe neurosurgery or plastics will get you at $400,000. Physicians who own their own practices have seen for decades decreased pay from insurance companies. It is simply not financially worth it these days to specialize.
I'll also chime in to say that this isn't my experience.
Academia these numbers are somewhat accurate.
A thriving private group gets partners 500k-1mil in medical subspecialties and likely 700k-1.2mil in surgical specialties. This is true even in the northeast. Of course there are some groups which aren't doing so well, or which pull along employees paying them 300-400k for years before letting them into the bigger money.
You have to open your own practice. Corporate does not pay 500k- 1 million per year.
I’m an independent contractor sub-specialty surgeon. Total compensation approximately $550k for 10 days/month.
mary sweet baby jesus; 10days a month? you could pick up a second job
newyorker
Posts: 1635
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 7:59 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by newyorker »

Osterix wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:10 am
Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:11 am
diabelli wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:39 am
Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:35 am
cncm wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:37 am medicine - those are pretty standard careers where you’ll easily make that much within a few years
Most doctors don't make $400,000. These days specialists make between $200,000 to $300,000 a year. Maybe neurosurgery or plastics will get you at $400,000. Physicians who own their own practices have seen for decades decreased pay from insurance companies. It is simply not financially worth it these days to specialize.
I'll also chime in to say that this isn't my experience.
Academia these numbers are somewhat accurate.
A thriving private group gets partners 500k-1mil in medical subspecialties and likely 700k-1.2mil in surgical specialties. This is true even in the northeast. Of course there are some groups which aren't doing so well, or which pull along employees paying them 300-400k for years before letting them into the bigger money.
You have to open your own practice. Corporate does not pay 500k- 1 million per year.
I’m an independent contractor sub-specialty surgeon. Total compensation approximately $550k for 10 days/month.
Seems like high earners are doctors lawyers and business owners.
chudat
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:38 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by chudat »

newyorker wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:33 am
Osterix wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:10 am
Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:11 am
diabelli wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:39 am
Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:35 am
Most doctors don't make $400,000. These days specialists make between $200,000 to $300,000 a year. Maybe neurosurgery or plastics will get you at $400,000. Physicians who own their own practices have seen for decades decreased pay from insurance companies. It is simply not financially worth it these days to specialize.
I'll also chime in to say that this isn't my experience.
Academia these numbers are somewhat accurate.
A thriving private group gets partners 500k-1mil in medical subspecialties and likely 700k-1.2mil in surgical specialties. This is true even in the northeast. Of course there are some groups which aren't doing so well, or which pull along employees paying them 300-400k for years before letting them into the bigger money.
You have to open your own practice. Corporate does not pay 500k- 1 million per year.
I’m an independent contractor sub-specialty surgeon. Total compensation approximately $550k for 10 days/month.
Seems like high earners are doctors lawyers and business owners.
only surgical and procedural specialists MDs are high earners; your family doc and pediatrician aint raking in half mil a yr
confused1
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:03 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by confused1 »

harrychan wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:03 pm
1) Take on complex chaotic work. Where there is chaos there is opportunity. Grab it.
2) Look out for yourself. Ask your manager why you didn't get a promotion or the rating you expected. Ask what it will take to get to the next level.
3) If current environment doesn't challenge or help you grow, leave. Go to another group or better, another company. My base went up 45% by switching to this job.
4) Find people you admire and learn from them. See how they charted their path to get there.
Could not agree more, especially point 1. The chaotic projects are the place to learn.
User avatar
zaboomafoozarg
Posts: 2431
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:34 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by zaboomafoozarg »

Shoot, it looks like $400k is the new BH minimum wage!

I'll never come close with my main job... even though it's in tech, I don't want to move from my LCOL area and I don't want to be a manager.

But I'm trying to compensate for that by spending a lot of time on my semi-passive side job, which is starting to get close to matching my main job income.

Maybe in 5 or 10 years I'll qualify to post in this thread, unless I reach my FI number first and call it quits :D
chudat
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:38 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by chudat »

zaboomafoozarg wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:52 am Shoot, it looks like $400k is the new BH minimum wage!

I'll never come close with my main job... even though it's in tech, I don't want to move from my LCOL area and I don't want to be a manager.

But I'm trying to compensate for that by spending a lot of time on my semi-passive side job, which is starting to get close to matching my main job income.

Maybe in 5 or 10 years I'll qualify to post in this thread, unless I reach my FI number first and call it quits :D
400K w2 is BS; wish my job offered 350K 1099
User avatar
zaboomafoozarg
Posts: 2431
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:34 pm

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by zaboomafoozarg »

bltn wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:15 am Very interesting thread regarding the comments about several highly paid fields of work.

Burn out is an interesting concept. Caused by excessive stress? And stress. Caused by excessive challenge? And without challenge, is there boredom, causing another kind of stress? And eventually burnout? Maybe stress/burnout is due in some part to a personal perspective.

Without challenge requiring personal aptitude for the job and a willingness to work hard, why would compensation be high?

Perhaps an important part of maintaining a long successful career is finding a job that involves an acceptable amount of stress.
I haven't found stress to be highly correlated to pay. My most stressful job paid $50k a year for 80 hours a week of work, and I felt like it was driving me to the brink of insanity.
HawkeyePierce
Posts: 2351
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:29 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by HawkeyePierce »

zaboomafoozarg wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:15 am
bltn wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:15 am Very interesting thread regarding the comments about several highly paid fields of work.

Burn out is an interesting concept. Caused by excessive stress? And stress. Caused by excessive challenge? And without challenge, is there boredom, causing another kind of stress? And eventually burnout? Maybe stress/burnout is due in some part to a personal perspective.

Without challenge requiring personal aptitude for the job and a willingness to work hard, why would compensation be high?

Perhaps an important part of maintaining a long successful career is finding a job that involves an acceptable amount of stress.
I haven't found stress to be highly correlated to pay. My most stressful job paid $50k a year for 80 hours a week of work, and I felt like it was driving me to the brink of insanity.
Agreed. I was way more stressed working at a startup for $80k than I am at a big tech company making 5x that while working half the hours.
2tall4economy
Posts: 739
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:55 am
Location: Global

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by 2tall4economy »

Pretty much all executives in all Fortune 500s
Some doctors (primarily surgeons)
Some layers (particularly business and litigation)
Some non-management sales and IT people (in Fortune 500)
Some business owners

You’re quoting $400k which youre probably getting from “1%” articles. Those are agi, not gross wages.

You’re really asking $500k gross.

Having recently been appointed to the c suite of an s&p500, and having an unhealthy obsession with wealth data and information, I can say from experience that being in the 1% isn’t all that different from being upper middle class. You’re getting up for work every day, you have one or two nice toys, you still can’t afford a new Italian sports car and have to buy used, you’re still flying economy class and staying on Marriotts. You might have a $1m home but you won’t have a $3m+ home.

It won’t get you comfortably into The “wealth” enclaves in the top 50 zip codes in the country, it won’t get you nice second homes in vacation areas, it won’t get you multiple Ferraris.

At least it won’t get you that stuff while also saving for retirement and putting food on the table.

The real point where income starts funding all the stuff you probably see on tv and associate for rich and famous is the 0.1% or even higher - the $2m or more level per year.

That much is really only a handful of professions:

C suite execs of Fortune 500 / s&p 500 companies

Partners at Wall Street and bankruptcy lawyer firms.

Successful entertainers and business owners (including private practices).

You’ll note pretty much nobody paid majority by salary (ie doctors) makes the list. And even that dries up fast.

And that leaves the top earners in the world:

Very successful Wall Street sheisters paid on assets under management
CEOs at very large very successful companies (public and private)
Very successful business owners and entertainers.
You can do anything you want in life. The rub is that there are consequences.
Dusn
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:59 am

Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Dusn »

chudat wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:41 am
newyorker wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:33 am
Osterix wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:10 am
Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:11 am
diabelli wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:39 am

I'll also chime in to say that this isn't my experience.
Academia these numbers are somewhat accurate.
A thriving private group gets partners 500k-1mil in medical subspecialties and likely 700k-1.2mil in surgical specialties. This is true even in the northeast. Of course there are some groups which aren't doing so well, or which pull along employees paying them 300-400k for years before letting them into the bigger money.
You have to open your own practice. Corporate does not pay 500k- 1 million per year.
I’m an independent contractor sub-specialty surgeon. Total compensation approximately $550k for 10 days/month.
Seems like high earners are doctors lawyers and business owners.
only surgical and procedural specialists MDs are high earners; your family doc and pediatrician aint raking in half mil a yr
I’m a surgical subspecialist and I don’t even understand some of these high paying, low work hour gigs I hear about on the internet. Or how to find them.
Locked