Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

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2tall4economy
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Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by 2tall4economy »

I relocated to Illinois about 3 years ago just before COVID. We are in the west suburbs now and as our lease expires in May we're looking to finally settle down (we've moved house at least every 3 years for the past ~23 years, if not more frequently, but kids growing and irritated wife are pushing me to say enough is enough).

We took a look at some locations here where we live now and after a lot of discussion with my wife I convinced her we should look at the north shore too. Long story short, we really, REALLY liked the north shore.

Now I'm trying to narrow down to a specific town (from Lake Bluff, Lake Forest, Highland Park, Wilmette, Winnetka, Kenilworth, Glencoe, Evanston). I've randomly discarded Evanston and Lake Bluff simply because they're on the edges of the north shore vs in the heart. But could be convinced to re-include them, and otherwise everything is in play. Not particularly interested in living inland. Ideally on lake but we'll see what budget allows.

I don't want to drop a healthy chunk of change and then find out we chose the city where it's all generational wealth and socialites who already have their friends but the next town over is all the day job folks with young kids and they have a "new residents" get together every Friday...

For anyone who lives in the area, any insights? If not, I think my only option is to get a rental for a year or two and familiarize ourselves with the areas directly... but my wife has been very clear she really doesn't want to move 2 more times, just once, which holds me back from doing that.

...first world problems, I know. but a problem nonetheless.

Insights appreciated!
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MidwestMet
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by MidwestMet »

All good choices quite frankly. As you said, first world problems. I live in the city but am similarly considering a move north and leaning toward Highland Park. Based on your description, it seems like you have done your homework.

In most of these suburbs, you have the crazy houses on Sheridan Road, but a few blocks inland, it is a lot more reasonable. The communities you describe comprise a lot of the area east of the highway (for a little higher-end, search east of Green Bay Road).

Highland Park probably has the biggest “downtown” of the bunch - shops, restaurants, etc. Each of the “downtowns” is near the train; none of them are on the lake. Wilmette and Fort Sheridan (just north of Highland Park) probably have the most accessible lake front parks, etc.

In terms of amenities, the Botanic Garden is in Glencoe and Ravinia is in Highland Park, but south of downtown Highland Park. There’s a lot of golf at all levels and the further north you go, the less busy the muni courses are (fewer of us city folk).

You didn’t mention how old your kids are, but each suburb has good schools. Loyola Academy in Wilmette (but close to 94) is a good private option.

One consideration is that Highland Park and north are in Lake County and Glencoe and south are in Cook County. The divider is creatively named Lake Cook Road. Both counties have high property taxes. Each county has its own merits. I won’t delve into politics :?

If you are going to take the train to downtown Chicago regularly, the difference is negligible (don’t move further south solely for commuting - Highland Park and Wilmette are only about 10 minutes difference). The Amtrak to Milwaukee stops in Glenview (northern Cook County, west of Winnetka and Wilmette).
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lthenderson
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by lthenderson »

2tall4economy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:25 am I've randomly discarded Evanston and Lake Bluff simply because they're on the edges of the north shore vs in the heart. But could be convinced to re-include them, and otherwise everything is in play.
I don't live in Chicago (or even in the state) but have friends that live in Evanston and have always enjoyed the time spent there. I thought it was pretty laid back and had a more small town vibe (which I like) than other suburbs we have been in.
shipbuilder
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by shipbuilder »

I agree with everything MidwestMet said.

Additionally, Evanston is a college town (Northwestern University). This means more entertainment (eg, great concerts at the music school and Big 10 athletics, as well as traffic near the stadium on football game days), a bigger downtown with more inexpensive restaurants, many residents with very high levels of education, more international residents, etc. Evanston also is larger than the rest, with distinct neighborhoods that vary significantly in character.

If you are religious, you may want to visit a few places of worship in towns you are considering. I have found this to be a good way to learn the "personality" of a town since people will often strike up a conversation with newcomers before or after the service. Also, one nice amenity in many North Shore towns is the ability to walk to your place of worship, but this requires identifying the place of worship you prefer before buying a house.
cbs2002
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by cbs2002 »

First, when you say you are "not particularly interested in living inland" do you mean you literally want to buy a home on the lake?

On the admittedly narrow spectrum of affluent old money suburbs, these places do have some significant differences and it would be easier to provide suggestions if you had more specific priorities around schools, entertainment, culture, community, etc. All the schools are "Great" in the most generic sense but of course their offerings and styles will be shaped by the people who live in the communities, and you may end up loving one approach and disliking another.

On the point you did make about embedded generational wealth and socialite networks, this is going to be most apparent in Lake Forest, Lake Bluff and maybe Kenilworth. You'll find it everywhere if you look for a while, but it goes deep in a place like Lake Forest and I would find it hard to avoid. Stuff like great-great-grandchildren of 19th century politicians and tycoons who still live there. Wilmette, Evanston, and Highland Park have less of this but have a lot of other differences between them.

Evanston is an outlier in a lot of ways, as an affluent and intentionally progressive small city. Closer in spirit to Ann Arbor or Madison than anything on the north shore. If that's your thing, you might love it. It may also drive you batty.

Leaving Evanston out, Wilmette has the best recreational lake access, followed by Highland Park and Lake Forest.

I don't have a good handle on Glencoe and Winnetka - nothing bad or good to say, just not a lot of experience with those communities.

If it were me, I'd choose Highland Park because it has some racial and cultural diversity I appreciate, is quite close to several nature areas, there are a few decent restaurants, and the pre-WWII housing stock on the south side of the town is reasonable for what you get.

Aesthetically, everything from the north side of Evanston to Lake Bluff is quite beautiful and peaceful with miles and miles of old-growth trees.
Pretsler
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by Pretsler »

Grew up in Northfield, which you should add to your list along with Northbrook (if considering Glenview, both of which qualify geographically, but socially are quite different from the coastal towns). You’re probably well aware of the strength of the New Trier district and it’s feeder schools for the kids. Amazing area to raise kids in, with generally strong park district systems, a ton of green space for sports etc, and great schools. The loop is a 20 minute drive in no traffic, and those towns have good metro access. Property tax inflation has led to a lot of turnover in the area, but as a result, home price appreciation has been much much more tepid than in the rest of the country.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by Murgatroyd »

Where are you living now? What are your pluses and minuses of the current location vs what you perceive on the north shore.

I grew up in the north shore area but now live in St. Charles. Most of my friends live in Deerfield, Northbrook, etc, so I know it well.

You will also need a trusted real estate attorney in this state.
invest2bfree
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by invest2bfree »

2tall4economy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:25 am I relocated to Illinois about 3 years ago just before COVID. We are in the west suburbs now and as our lease expires in May we're looking to finally settle down (we've moved house at least every 3 years for the past ~23 years, if not more frequently, but kids growing and irritated wife are pushing me to say enough is enough).

We took a look at some locations here where we live now and after a lot of discussion with my wife I convinced her we should look at the north shore too. Long story short, we really, REALLY liked the north shore.

Now I'm trying to narrow down to a specific town (from Lake Bluff, Lake Forest, Highland Park, Wilmette, Winnetka, Kenilworth, Glencoe, Evanston). I've randomly discarded Evanston and Lake Bluff simply because they're on the edges of the north shore vs in the heart. But could be convinced to re-include them, and otherwise everything is in play. Not particularly interested in living inland. Ideally on lake but we'll see what budget allows.

I don't want to drop a healthy chunk of change and then find out we chose the city where it's all generational wealth and socialites who already have their friends but the next town over is all the day job folks with young kids and they have a "new residents" get together every Friday...

For anyone who lives in the area, any insights? If not, I think my only option is to get a rental for a year or two and familiarize ourselves with the areas directly... but my wife has been very clear she really doesn't want to move 2 more times, just once, which holds me back from doing that.

...first world problems, I know. but a problem nonetheless.

Insights appreciated!
It is a great choice IMO. We live in western suburbs too and we every week during summer take a trip to the tower road beach in Winnetka during summers. We would definitely take long walks along the lake if we lived closer.

Cannot comment on the social situation but they definitely are on the upper strata of the society.

But we do like the far western suburbs though.
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bob60014
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by bob60014 »

Certainly all the communities have their strengths and weaknesses. In my 25+ years of working on the NS and having day to day interactions with all of the NS communities, I found that Wilmette to be more working class and, for lack of a better term, more neighborly than some of the other areas. It's diverse, good place for families, great schools, parks and easy access to most of the usual activities. Ymmv!
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by 2tall4economy »

Murgatroyd wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:07 am Where are you living now? What are your pluses and minuses of the current location vs what you perceive on the north shore.

I grew up in the north shore area but now live in St. Charles. Most of my friends live in Deerfield, Northbrook, etc, so I know it well.

You will also need a trusted real estate attorney in this state.
We’re essentially in Hinsdale right now (we’re not within city limits but we’re across the street and that’s where we go for shopping and post office and haircuts and quick dining etc).

We originally loved the access to Ogden and oak brook and all of the stores nearby when we were relocating and needed to get things for the home but settling in and Covid has changed our needs in that space and now it’s more about other things.

Being able to get a home that is (or looks like it is) 100 years old and fits into the neighborhood would be great because we are fans of gilded age architecture.

Being somewhere kids can play outside without fear of being run over (Hinsdale is all main streets).

Being in a community with a lot of people more wealthy than us / where wealth isn’t seen as a social issue to be denied and poo poo’d / where it's not awkward to have wealth is also big. Wife really gets into party planning (inexpensive but detailed) and doesn’t work and I don’t have a lot of trappings of wealth (I wear discount jeans and don't wear a watch) but I do have a handful of six figure+ sports cars. Both of those things have in the past had us sticking out like a sore thumb and I’ve had close friends tell me other families didn’t want to come by a second time because they were uncomfortable when they saw our house or cars or my wife’s over the top party prep. We’ve gotten to the point we actively avoid discussing real estate or parties or cars with others when the topic comes up but eventually we’re found out. In summary, I don't want to live somewhere I feel guilty about my success.

We also really liked the fact life seemed slower there (traffic in particular) lots of people out walking even in the cold, the beauty of the trees and access to the lake. Hinsdale reminds me more of an active / night life sort of place vs quiet relaxing place. Perhaps just transitioning again in my life to a different stage where I value that more.

For anyone familiar with Michigan, I see the north shore as a cross between gross pointe and Bloomfield hills and Hinsdale is more of a Birmingham. I lived in Birmingham for many years. I think I want to “retire to grosse pointe” now…

… maybe I’m wrong!
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by MarkerFM »

I would not move into any town in Cook County, but that's just me. Good friends lived in Winnetka for many years and finally pulled up stakes and fled to Lake Bluff because of the taxes (and that's saying something because Lake Bluff taxes are relatively high, see below).

Lake Forest is very nice, and has a very well run municipal government and many amenities (beach, community center, library, senior center, parks, recreation center, golf course, open space, etc.). A remarkably long and not well known abolitionist history (e.g. first mayor was a major figure in the underground railroad). Great private school options in addition to great public schools. You will find a certain small group of very old names (some of which no longer have money, just the ancestors) who mostly stick to themselves. Also a mix of highly paid CEOs and athletes. But, there is a large group of regular upper middle class families along with some lower income folks.

Lake Bluff is more of a Mayberry feel, with less amenities but still high property taxes (about 17% higher than Lake Forest, for example, on equivalent assessed value). Highland Park is more diverse and has a large downtown, but it is a little gritty feeling and some of the schools are not so great. Highwood and Fort Sheridan are small and not attractive for various reasons. South of Highland Park, you're in Cook County.

Wherever you decide to move, buy as far east as your budget will allow.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by 2tall4economy »

MarkerFM wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:53 am I would not move into any town in Cook County, but that's just me. Good friends lived in Winnetka for many years and finally pulled up stakes and fled to Lake Bluff because of the taxes (and that's saying something because Lake Bluff taxes are relatively high, see below).

Lake Forest is very nice, and has a very well run municipal government and many amenities (beach, community center, library, senior center, parks, recreation center, golf course, open space, etc.). A remarkably long and not well known abolitionist history (e.g. first mayor was a major figure in the underground railroad). Great private school options in addition to great public schools. You will find a certain small group of very old names (some of which no longer have money, just the ancestors) who mostly stick to themselves. Also a mix of highly paid CEOs and athletes. But, there is a large group of regular upper middle class families along with some lower income folks.

Lake Bluff is more of a Mayberry feel, with less amenities but still high property taxes (about 17% higher than Lake Forest, for example, on equivalent assessed value). Highland Park is more diverse and has a large downtown, but it is a little gritty feeling and some of the schools are not so great. Highwood and Fort Sheridan are small and not attractive for various reasons. South of Highland Park, you're in Cook County.

Wherever you decide to move, buy as far east as your budget will allow.
Very transparent and helpful! Thank you!

Any idea where I can find the all-in tax property rates? I've tried in vain to find something with good estimates (it's either actual taxes paid - which means nothing to a new buyer - or it's only part of the story because other layers of taxes aren't included).
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by JPM »

Lake Bluff is very nice, small downtown, friendly small town feel, much less old money there. Schools are same as Lake Forest at this time. Relatively impoverished North Chicago is adjacent and it is possible that the school population may become diversified by expanding the district to include NC at some point.

Lake Forest is nicer, more old money types but a lot of relatively nouveau doctors, attorneys, Abbott Labs/Abbvie managers and scientists as well. Excellent schools public and private. If the public schools become diversified and that doesn't work out to your satisfaction, excellent private primary and secondary schools are conveniently available.

Highland Park is very nice, had 3 synagogues last time I looked and at least 2 were well-led. Extremely nice if you are Jewish and feel more comfortable with many of your landsmen around you and a choice of venues for worship. The schools here are vigorously supported by the community and are IMO the most unlikely to become damaged by educational fads. The schools are meant to foster high achievement. If you have a special needs kid, maybe look elsewhere. HP is politically progressive and the Lake County Democrats find their funding and leadership there. That will probably not extend to diversifying their own schools beyond what they already are. HP is very welcoming to a diverse population as long as you have the money and want to fit in. A number of active and retired professional athletes who are family men live here.

Libertyville, Vernon Hills, and Deerfield are nice and full of people aspiring to move to one of the above 3. Schools are excellent now, but affected by trends in primary and secondary education.

Those 6 are in Lake County where sales and gasoline taxes are lower than in Cook County but real estate taxes maybe not. Commuting times to the city are longer. Crime is low.

Glencoe is the northernmost shoreline suburb in Cook County. It is similar to Winnetka and Wilmette in beauty, low crime, good schools, parks, and downtown amenities. Some old money, not enough to dominate politics. As mentioned before, Evanston is a college town, easily the most progressive politics on the North Shore. Fairly ethnically diverse non university population. Perhaps more crime than other towns on the north shore too. Kenilworth has more old money but it has a goodly share of nouveau doctors and lawyers etc. Skokie is a very diverse lower middle class town west of Evanston with a large outdoor mall, a good arts scene, more reasonably priced housing, and close to the city proper. Park Ridge is adjacent to the city west of 'Evanston still desirable with some expensive and some reasonable housing, still good schools as far as I know.
Murgatroyd
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by Murgatroyd »

2tall4economy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:13 am
Murgatroyd wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:07 am Where are you living now? What are your pluses and minuses of the current location vs what you perceive on the north shore.

I grew up in the north shore area but now live in St. Charles. Most of my friends live in Deerfield, Northbrook, etc, so I know it well.

You will also need a trusted real estate attorney in this state.
We’re essentially in Hinsdale right now (we’re not within city limits but we’re across the street and that’s where we go for shopping and post office and haircuts and quick dining etc).

We originally loved the access to Ogden and oak brook and all of the stores nearby when we were relocating and needed to get things for the home but settling in and Covid has changed our needs in that space and now it’s more about other things.

Being able to get a home that is (or looks like it is) 100 years old and fits into the neighborhood would be great because we are fans of gilded age architecture.

Being somewhere kids can play outside without fear of being run over (Hinsdale is all main streets).

Being in a community with a lot of people more wealthy than us / where wealth isn’t seen as a social issue to be denied and poo poo’d / where it's not awkward to have wealth is also big. Wife really gets into party planning (inexpensive but detailed) and doesn’t work and I don’t have a lot of trappings of wealth (I wear discount jeans and don't wear a watch) but I do have a handful of six figure+ sports cars. Both of those things have in the past had us sticking out like a sore thumb and I’ve had close friends tell me other families didn’t want to come by a second time because they were uncomfortable when they saw our house or cars or my wife’s over the top party prep. We’ve gotten to the point we actively avoid discussing real estate or parties or cars with others when the topic comes up but eventually we’re found out. In summary, I don't want to live somewhere I feel guilty about my success.

We also really liked the fact life seemed slower there (traffic in particular) lots of people out walking even in the cold, the beauty of the trees and access to the lake. Hinsdale reminds me more of an active / night life sort of place vs quiet relaxing place. Perhaps just transitioning again in my life to a different stage where I value that more.

For anyone familiar with Michigan, I see the north shore as a cross between gross pointe and Bloomfield hills and Hinsdale is more of a Birmingham. I lived in Birmingham for many years. I think I want to “retire to grosse pointe” now…

… maybe I’m wrong!
At this point, others have given good information. The only potential to add would be the general Barrington area for high end lifestyle. There would be fewer of the older homes you prefer but you would definitely fit in. Another really odd but great thing about the specific 60010 zip code area, which is most of Barrington, is the taxes are more favorable.
folkher0
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by folkher0 »

MarkerFM wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:53 am Highland Park is more diverse and has a large downtown, but it is a little gritty feeling and some of the schools are not so great.
LOL. I've never seen the words "gritty" and "Highland Park" collide in the same sentence before.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

Any idea where I can find the all-in tax property rates? I've tried in vain to find something with good estimates (it's either actual taxes paid - which means nothing to a new buyer - or it's only part of the story because other layers of taxes aren't included).
I live West of the City and between 2008 and 2018 I was looking for fixable houses in several nearby suburbs (my sibling and other relatives enjoy the challenge of finding a fixer upper and then fixing it up.) I'm don't look for properties in any of the suburbs you are looking even the fixer uppers (back after the 2007 crash) were WAY out of my price range. :)

But, you are looking in Cook County - so:

I would use the Cook County Assessor's Office and the Cook County Recorder of Deeds web sites in conjunction with Zillow or realtor.com to get info on houses (how many times they've changed hands, how much they were sold for in the past, etc....)
I'm fond of older homes that have only had 1 or 2 previous owners - neither of which was a "flipper" or a company that flips houses. It takes looking at a few houses (on line and in person) to get the hang of translating what the info you gather means.

Be aware that owners who have owned the property for a couple (or more) of decades - may be senior citizens which may have entitled them to a property tax freeze. Once the house is sold the property taxes will jump sometimes dramatically. All of this is public information but you need to dig a little and extrapolate from data collected from various sources.

You can google for sales taxes in the various counties. Get use to people complaining about the "Taxes" in Cook County. I think it's "code" for something... :) I like living here. I can afford the "taxes". I know what my taxes are paying for. I can read. I have access to the internet.
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SconnieBro
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by SconnieBro »

folkher0 wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:55 pm
MarkerFM wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:53 am Highland Park is more diverse and has a large downtown, but it is a little gritty feeling and some of the schools are not so great.
LOL. I've never seen the words "gritty" and "Highland Park" collide in the same sentence before.
+1. Highland Park is as gritty as a year old S class
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

And one last piece of advice... Also, don't assume that ALL the schools are equally as good. You don't say how old your kids are - or what kinds of educational things they are interested in (or want to pursue). Take that into consideration.

Make sure the house you buy is in the school district you want to be in. Make sure you are on the side of the street you need to be - if the street is the "dividing" line. The "lines" for school districts aren't always as clear cut (or rectangular) as in the "older" western suburbs. Check the high schools as well.

Also, don't assume that ALL the schools are equally as good. You don't say how old your kids are - or what kinds of educational things they are interested in (or want to pursue). Take that into consideration. I would think you'd want to find the schools that work the best for your kids (what they need in a school to thrive and learn). I'm not a big fan of the idea that "best school" is the "best" for all students. All kids are different. :)

You should be able to find the boundaries for school districts with a little digging online.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by cbs2002 »

2tall4economy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:13 am We’re essentially in Hinsdale right now (we’re not within city limits but we’re across the street and that’s where we go for shopping and post office and haircuts and quick dining etc).

Being in a community with a lot of people more wealthy than us / where wealth isn’t seen as a social issue to be denied and poo poo’d / where it's not awkward to have wealth is also big. Wife really gets into party planning (inexpensive but detailed) and doesn’t work and I don’t have a lot of trappings of wealth (I wear discount jeans and don't wear a watch) but I do have a handful of six figure+ sports cars. Both of those things have in the past had us sticking out like a sore thumb and I’ve had close friends tell me other families didn’t want to come by a second time because they were uncomfortable when they saw our house or cars or my wife’s over the top party prep. We’ve gotten to the point we actively avoid discussing real estate or parties or cars with others when the topic comes up but eventually we’re found out. In summary, I don't want to live somewhere I feel guilty about my success.
Per wikipedia Hinsdale's median HHI is $165K - it drips money and in my experience people are not shy about showing it in the form of cars, so I'm not sure what you are encountering. If anything, the north shore is going to be less showy and your car collection may stick out even more. Some people don't enjoy detailed/choreographed social events. And I avoid talking about anything that can be connected to my own finances with anyone but the closest of friends, partially for the reasons you mention.

A good friend's parent ultimately built their own garage away from the family home to enjoy the toys. If it's important to you to be around like-minded folks, maybe consider doing this in a location nearby your new home and find ways to be around wealthy car enthusiasts - e.g. tracks, car clubs, private social clubs etc. No shortage of this in the area.

I would be really cautious about expectations that a move can address issues of guilt or social enjoyment.

On the other points you make - outdoor recreation, architecture, aesthetics - the north shore is hard to beat.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by cbs2002 »

SconnieBro wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:04 pm
folkher0 wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:55 pm
MarkerFM wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:53 am Highland Park is more diverse and has a large downtown, but it is a little gritty feeling and some of the schools are not so great.
LOL. I've never seen the words "gritty" and "Highland Park" collide in the same sentence before.
+1. Highland Park is as gritty as a year old S class
This is why I come here. And for the financial advice, of course.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by MHN »

Our family resides in Winnetka.  I'll limit my observations to the local area.

Housing Inventory - Homes range from late 19th century to new.  Zoning regulations are comprehensive ensuring new homes reflect the character of the existing neighborhood.  If you are looking at a vintage property, consider a material investment in inspections to avoid surprises post close.

Schools - Glencoe, Kenilworth, Wilmette, Winnetka and east Glenview feed into New Trier high school.  All have excellent elementary school systems.  New Trier has two campuses -- a freshman only in Northfield with upperclassmen in Winnetka.  NT graduates 1,000+ students per year.  Loyola and North Shore Country Day are excellent options as well.

RE Taxes - Unlike other NS towns, Glencoe, Kenilworth, and Winnetka don't have sizable Corporate and large commercial businesses supporting the tax base.  As such, RE taxes are high.  Zillow provides solid estimates.

Flooding - some areas are impacted by flooding.  Public stormwater infrastructure can be 100 years old.  Infrastructure improvement projects are in process.  Do your diligence in reviewing flood maps.  You may be required to have flood insurance.  If flooding is an issue in the neighborhood, confirm the home has sump pumps, drain tiles, backflow valve, etc.

Rental Properties - given the strong RE market over the last few years, rental homes are difficult to find.

For us, the school system, Lake Michigan access, parks and recreation offerings, proximity to Evanston (inc. Northwestern U) and Ravinia, and ability to walk the area are all positives and make it difficult to leave even as recent empty nesters.

FYI... during the summer months, downtown Winnetka hosts a Coffee & Classics on Sunday mornings featuring predominantly European vintage vehicles ranging from Aston Martins to Porsches.  Great group of owners knowledgeable and passionate about their cars.
clip651
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by clip651 »

You mentioned wanting to live by (on??) the lake. If you are serious about wanting literal lakefront property on Lake Michigan, do lots of due diligence first. Lake levels vary a lot (they have been high the past few years) and flooding and erosion can be a serious problem in some areas. Make sure there are many yards of land between your actual house and the actual lake, or you could be in for an unpleasant surprise in a few years as the land might erode away.

I don't know the details of which of the suburbs you're considering have serious lakefront issues, but before you buy, you should figure that out if you're looking at any true lakefront properties. Being near the lake, like a short walk or drive away, might be a good alternative.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by FoolishJumper »

2tall4economy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:16 pm Very transparent and helpful! Thank you!

Any idea where I can find the all-in tax property rates? I've tried in vain to find something with good estimates (it's either actual taxes paid - which means nothing to a new buyer - or it's only part of the story because other layers of taxes aren't included).
As a Chicagoland real estate agent, this is amusing to read, but I wouldn't necessarily disagree with most of what has been said. I might question some of what people call North Shore, but given some people in Norridge try to claim they are North Shore - naming is fairly insignificant, unless being able to say you live in the North Shore is a priority for you (then pick any heart of North Shore village and you'll be good). Figure out why it is you like the North Shore so much, and then figure which village is the best fit for you - they certainly all have more in common than not, but there are little differences that someone living in the north shore can speak to in your specific case - just asking that question here will get anyone with knowledge of the North Shore saying which village they personally prefer, not which is best for you.

As far as your tax question, just stick with 2% of purchase price (as you start thinking about budget and a first pass on properties) for Cook County, as reversion to the mean will get you back to the actual value before long, and the new county assessor (around since 2018) has been better at keeping tax valuations fairly uniform (i.e. consistent between like valued homes) across the townships, so even if you come in with a lower valuation (and lower initial property tax), you can definitely expect within a couple years that your tax valuation will catch up.

I would definitely recommend finding a real estate agent who knows the north shore well, and even more so knows your town(s) of focus well (don't trust anyone who says they know all of the North Shore well). They can best speak to a lot of the points you raised. Everyone has their personal viewpoint - mine would be Kenilworth as the most old money of this lot, but even then, I know two families from Kenilworth who are as down to earth as they come (and neither is old money) and they both claim that Kenilworth gets a bad rap and it isn't actually like what people claim. An agent will be very helpful as you start your search, and can help with landing on things like figuring what property tax rate you should be expecting on a particular home (or really a particular valuation of home).

All that said, I would definitely not discount Evanston because you are concerned it isn't in the heart of the North Shore (or Lake Bluff either....I'd discount Lake Bluff in that it's so far from Chicago) - Evanston is still 100% North Shore, and by far the best fit if you are interested in more of a progressive college town with friendly neighbors, but if not, then discount it because it isn't the best one of the bunch for you - not because it isn't the heart of the North Shore.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by TPIR »

I'm wondering the same about feeling uncomfortable with owning exotic cars - my memory is from the 90s / early 2000s but Hinsdale was by all means then an affluent suburb in a big metro with plenty of showy residents.

And then there's the Hinsdale Golf Club right up there with old money.

That said there are plenty of high earning not wealthy families living in Hinsdale for the schools - so maybe it was a vibe of the neighborhood (not living in Hinsdale proper for example) / insecurity among the younger residents

cbs2002 wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:59 pm
2tall4economy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:13 am We’re essentially in Hinsdale right now (we’re not within city limits but we’re across the street and that’s where we go for shopping and post office and haircuts and quick dining etc).

Being in a community with a lot of people more wealthy than us / where wealth isn’t seen as a social issue to be denied and poo poo’d / where it's not awkward to have wealth is also big. Wife really gets into party planning (inexpensive but detailed) and doesn’t work and I don’t have a lot of trappings of wealth (I wear discount jeans and don't wear a watch) but I do have a handful of six figure+ sports cars. Both of those things have in the past had us sticking out like a sore thumb and I’ve had close friends tell me other families didn’t want to come by a second time because they were uncomfortable when they saw our house or cars or my wife’s over the top party prep. We’ve gotten to the point we actively avoid discussing real estate or parties or cars with others when the topic comes up but eventually we’re found out. In summary, I don't want to live somewhere I feel guilty about my success.
Per wikipedia Hinsdale's median HHI is $165K - it drips money and in my experience people are not shy about showing it in the form of cars, so I'm not sure what you are encountering. If anything, the north shore is going to be less showy and your car collection may stick out even more. Some people don't enjoy detailed/choreographed social events. And I avoid talking about anything that can be connected to my own finances with anyone but the closest of friends, partially for the reasons you mention.

A good friend's parent ultimately built their own garage away from the family home to enjoy the toys. If it's important to you to be around like-minded folks, maybe consider doing this in a location nearby your new home and find ways to be around wealthy car enthusiasts - e.g. tracks, car clubs, private social clubs etc. No shortage of this in the area.

I would be really cautious about expectations that a move can address issues of guilt or social enjoyment.

On the other points you make - outdoor recreation, architecture, aesthetics - the north shore is hard to beat.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by 2tall4economy »

cbs2002 wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:59 pm Per wikipedia Hinsdale's median HHI is $165K - it drips money and in my experience people are not shy about showing it in the form of cars, so I'm not sure what you are encountering. If anything, the north shore is going to be less showy and your car collection may stick out even more. Some people don't enjoy detailed/choreographed social events. And I avoid talking about anything that can be connected to my own finances with anyone but the closest of friends, partially for the reasons you mention.
Issue isn't Hinsdale; we feel very normal there. It's the fact Hinsdale is a tiny island surrounded by a lot where we stick out without wanting to stick out.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by MarkerFM »

SconnieBro wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:04 pm
folkher0 wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:55 pm
MarkerFM wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:53 am Highland Park is more diverse and has a large downtown, but it is a little gritty feeling and some of the schools are not so great.
LOL. I've never seen the words "gritty" and "Highland Park" collide in the same sentence before.
+1. Highland Park is as gritty as a year old S class
Think of a year old S class in an odd color that doesn't get washed often enough and has a lot of door dings in it. Seriously, you would see that I mean if you spend some time driving around each community.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by Kookaburra »

I’d move to 671 Lincoln Avenue in Winnetka. It has a rich and heart-warming history.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by Kellerreiss »

Grew-up there. Later, lived there with my own family.

Yes, socially-competitive, can be very sharp-elbowed,for kids, for moms, for husbands, so assess your self-confidence to "play" to these terms in many situations. Behind all that perceived gloss are unhappy folks trying to maintain their public personas as successful admirable enviable folks.

Yes, disproportiately high real estate taxes, even for comparitively modest houses. Not uncommon to have $18,000 RE tax bill for a "regular" 4 bedrm 3 bath house.

Schools are great, but if kids aren't "A" students, they can get lost in shuffle. Loyola Academy and other NS private prep schools are selective enrollment schools; lots of qualified kids not admitted. Lots of parents furtively stressed by "HS high-stakes" situations.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by 2tall4economy »

Kookaburra wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:21 pm I’d move to 671 Lincoln Avenue in Winnetka. It has a rich and heart-warming history.
Kid friendly too!
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by vinhodoporto »

I previously lived on the North Shore. If work took me back to Chicago that’s where I’d look to live again, especially with school aged kids. I thought Kellerreiss and MHN did a good job of capturing the realities good and bad of living on the North Shore.

Instead of starting with focusing on specific towns / villages, I’d approach the search slightly differently:

1. Decide on Lake vs Cook county. Good reasons to prefer Lake were covered earlier. I prefer the Cook part of the North Shore in Cook due to better proximity to the city and Evanston, and because I prefer the aesthetic of the neighborhoods there.

2. Then if you choose Lake I’d focus on high school districts. If you choose Cook County you’ll be in the New Trier district. Even if you don’t have school age kids or if you do private I’d do this given the relationship between perceived quality of the high school and property value / demand.

3. Then instead of towns I’d focus on specific areas with the feel you want. For example, Wilmette east of Green Bay Rd, Kenilworth, Winnetka, and Glencoe look/feel more similar than Wilmette east of Green Bay and the western parts of Wilmette by I-94 do.

4. If you have elementary age or younger kids in the mix I’d learn about and visit the elementary / middle schools and perhaps narrow my focus down further than that. Objectively all the schools are good so it’s more about “fit” (see LittleMaggieMae’s post), school size, and whether you prefer being in one school for say preK through 8 (Kenilworth), separate K-2, 3-4, and 5-8 schools (Glencoe) or something in between (Wilmette and Winnetka).
Last edited by vinhodoporto on Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by vinhodoporto »

FoolishJumper wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:03 pm Everyone has their personal viewpoint - mine would be Kenilworth as the most old money of this lot, but even then, I know two families from Kenilworth who are as down to earth as they come (and neither is old money) and they both claim that Kenilworth gets a bad rap and it isn't actually like what people claim.
Re Kenilworth - having lived there and having known people from across the North Shore I don’t think it is any more “old money” or snobby than similarly affluent parts of Wilmette and Winnetka or for that matter Hinsdale. I think most people that move there are looking for a quiet place with good schools where their kids can play outside, and good proximity to the beach and the train. Many of the families there were looking at several towns and happened to find the house they liked best in Kenilworth.

Pretty much everyone I know there is in finance, medicine, law, a megacorp executive, or the owner of a small business. Same as Winnetka or the CAGE streets of Wilmette.

Where Kenilworth is different from the neighboring suburbs is it is a small town with 2.5k population vs. 28k in Wilmette, 12k in Winnetka, and 9k in Glencoe. And with that comes all the good and the bad that comes with living in a small town. Related to this, there is one school which covers pre-K through 8th grade, which is in many ways the hub of the community at least for people with kids that age.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by vinhodoporto »

One thing to add regarding exotic cars. Most of the houses don’t have more than a two car garage. In many of the vintage houses the garage is detached in what was formerly a carriage house. Given the challenges of getting things like an additional garage approved by the various local zoning boards, you may need to consider housing your vehicles elsewhere except when you’re using them. Might be a good way to meet some fellow enthusiasts as well.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by Phil DeMuth »

In Kenilworth, kids can walk to Joseph Sears School and New Trier East on the coldest day in winter, without the services of a chauffeur Mom or Dad. Your new friend group will come from your kid's classmates' parents. But property taxes on the lake are very high -- the cost of > two private school tuitions.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by DWesterb2iz2 »

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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by folkher0 »

vinhodoporto wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:09 am One thing to add regarding exotic cars. Most of the houses don’t have more than a two car garage. In many of the vintage houses the garage is detached in what was formerly a carriage house. Given the challenges of getting things like an additional garage approved by the various local zoning boards, you may need to consider housing your vehicles elsewhere except when you’re using them. Might be a good way to meet some fellow enthusiasts as well.
This house might work for OP:

https://sillyamerica.com/blog/ferris-bu ... ic-garage/
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by 2tall4economy »

folkher0 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:55 pm
vinhodoporto wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:09 am One thing to add regarding exotic cars. Most of the houses don’t have more than a two car garage. In many of the vintage houses the garage is detached in what was formerly a carriage house. Given the challenges of getting things like an additional garage approved by the various local zoning boards, you may need to consider housing your vehicles elsewhere except when you’re using them. Might be a good way to meet some fellow enthusiasts as well.
This house might work for OP:

https://sillyamerica.com/blog/ferris-bu ... ic-garage/
I've heard Highland Park is a bit too gritty for a Ferrari 250

(just kidding!)
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by 2tall4economy »

vinhodoporto wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:25 am I previously lived on the North Shore. If work took me back to Chicago that’s where I’d look to live again, especially with school aged kids. I thought Kellerreiss and MHN did a good job of capturing the realities good and bad of living on the North Shore.

Instead of starting with focusing on specific towns / villages, I’d approach the search slightly differently:

1. Decide on Lake vs Cook county. Good reasons to prefer Lake were covered earlier. I prefer the Cook part of the North Shore in Cook due to better proximity to the city and Evanston, and because I prefer the aesthetic of the neighborhoods there.

2. Then if you choose Lake I’d focus on high school districts. If you choose Cook County you’ll be in the New Trier district. Even if you don’t have school age kids or if you do private I’d do this given the relationship between perceived quality of the high school and property value / demand.

3. Then instead of towns I’d focus on specific areas with the feel you want. For example, Wilmette east of Green Bay Rd, Kenilworth, Winnetka, and Glencoe look/feel more similar than Wilmette east of Green Bay and the western parts of Wilmette by I-94 do.

4. If you have elementary age or younger kids in the mix I’d learn about and visit the elementary / middle schools and perhaps narrow my focus down further than that. Objectively all the schools are good so it’s more about “fit” (see LittleMaggieMae’s post), school size, and whether you prefer being in one school for say preK through 8 (Kenilworth), separate K-2, 3-4, and 5-8 schools (Glencoe) or something in between (Wilmette and Winnetka).
Great feedback. As to #1, I assume the primary decision points are distance to downtown and local politics? What I'm reading suggests the Lake and Cook both have exorbitant tax rates so that isn't a factor... "fortunately" I lived in upstate new york before relocating... with property taxes at 3.5% to 4% of market value. Illinois is a bargain at only 2%!
Last edited by 2tall4economy on Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by 2tall4economy »

Thanks all for great feedback so far. Lots to consider.

For those who have asked up topic, if still curious:

1) 3 kids, aged 9, 6, 2.

2) Not particularly religious though we were raised very religious (perhaps why we aren't now).

3) I went to Michigan State for undergrad. Comparisons to Ann Arbor are irresistibly negative! :)

We did see one home which we liked the exterior and location but it would need to be gutted and redone inside and a garage added... looking into what that takes now...

Also might adjust price points and look off-lake to see if there is anything else that piques our fancy.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by vinhodoporto »

2tall4economy wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:27 pm Great feedback. As to #1 (Cook vs. Lake County) I assume the primary decision points are distance to downtown and local politics?
I think distance to work, which for many but not all people is downtown, and affordability are the biggest factors for why people choose Lake vs. Cook. It seems the Lake County towns and villages are slightly more affordable than the ones in Cook. Some people choose Cook specifically for the New Trier district.

Regarding politics, the North Shore was a Republican stronghold for a long time. It has even sent a Republican to Congress fairly recently (2014). Despite what you might think from looking at election results, in general you’ll find the political climate to be fiscally conservative and socially moderate to liberal.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by 2tall4economy »

Quick update.

after talking to lots and lots of people and eking out tiny additional fragments of insight I’ve narrowed it down to winnetka and lake forest (vs hinsdale as the base case).

Lake forest because lake bluff is just too darn far away but it allows for lake county, and winnekta because it’s supposedly a much easier place to sell your house if you want to move and has nicer downtown areas vs glencoe.

Kenilworth is apparently great too but it’s so restrictive on building there a lot of the homes are very outdated and have unappealing exteriors (ymmv).

Highland park we’re not looking at because we can’t point to why we would go that far north but not just going to lake forest for the lower taxes and nicer area and Evanston we’re not exploring because it’s a college town.

Seeing some places this weekend. Looking forward to finally getting some narrower decisions.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by CletusCaddy »

2tall4economy wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:19 am Quick update.

after talking to lots and lots of people and eking out tiny additional fragments of insight I’ve narrowed it down to winnetka and lake forest (vs hinsdale as the base case).

Lake forest because lake bluff is just too darn far away but it allows for lake county, and winnekta because it’s supposedly a much easier place to sell your house if you want to move and has nicer downtown areas vs glencoe.

Kenilworth is apparently great too but it’s so restrictive on building there a lot of the homes are very outdated and have unappealing exteriors (ymmv).

Highland park we’re not looking at because we can’t point to why we would go that far north but not just going to lake forest for the lower taxes and nicer area and Evanston we’re not exploring because it’s a college town.

Seeing some places this weekend. Looking forward to finally getting some narrower decisions.
Dude just move to Oak Brook. Midwest Club sounds exactly your speed, no hoi polloi to deal with - they won’t be able to get past the gate.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by vinhodoporto »

2tall4economy wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:19 am Quick update.

after talking to lots and lots of people and eking out tiny additional fragments of insight I’ve narrowed it down to winnetka and lake forest (vs hinsdale as the base case).

Lake forest because lake bluff is just too darn far away but it allows for lake county, and winnekta because it’s supposedly a much easier place to sell your house if you want to move and has nicer downtown areas vs glencoe.

Kenilworth is apparently great too but it’s so restrictive on building there a lot of the homes are very outdated and have unappealing exteriors (ymmv).

Highland park we’re not looking at because we can’t point to why we would go that far north but not just going to lake forest for the lower taxes and nicer area and Evanston we’re not exploring because it’s a college town.

Seeing some places this weekend. Looking forward to finally getting some narrower decisions.
Thanks for the update and good luck with your search. Both are great areas. Have you also considered Wilmette east of Green Bay Rd? Especially north of Elmwood it has a similar look / feel to Winnetka.
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Re: Relocating to Illinois north shore - advice/suggestions?

Post by tennisplyr »

You might want to join this forum.

www.city-data.com/forum
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