High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

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nigel_ht
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by nigel_ht »

JoeRetire wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:41 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:36 pmMy point is that old fogies like me who had fun in life seem much happier and productive than old fogies I know who don’t have good memories to warm their later years
The don't have good memories to warm them because presumably they didn't have fun in life. Thus, they are unhappy and not productive. Hmm.

Fun while young is good. Not sure it really has anything to do with productivity later in life.
I generally think the YOLO mindset is irresponsible but there is a smidge of truth to it.
Okay. So what good is a smidge amongst an irresponsible mindset?
To fully embrace YOLO you also work hard as well as play hard.

That generally means you also make money in addition to spending it.
neverpanic
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by neverpanic »

JoeRetire wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:13 pm If this is for the 40th birthday, I suspect the once-in-a-lifetime will actually be once-each-ten-years.

I have a friend who has done this sort of thing repeatedly. But he also buys himself plenty of toys as well (multiple Tesla purchases, etc). After all, it's only x% of his net worth next year too.

It makes no sense to spend an emergency fund on non-emergencies, IMHO. But whatever.
It seems like a lot of respondents are hung up on the emergency fund matter. People with the wealth level of OP do not need an emergency fund in the traditional sense.

We all have choices to make, but generally speaking, life should be lived. Doing something insane once every ten years would be great!
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

nigel_ht wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:28 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:41 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:36 pmMy point is that old fogies like me who had fun in life seem much happier and productive than old fogies I know who don’t have good memories to warm their later years
The don't have good memories to warm them because presumably they didn't have fun in life. Thus, they are unhappy and not productive. Hmm.

Fun while young is good. Not sure it really has anything to do with productivity later in life.
I generally think the YOLO mindset is irresponsible but there is a smidge of truth to it.
Okay. So what good is a smidge amongst an irresponsible mindset?
To fully embrace YOLO you also work hard as well as play hard.

That generally means you also make money in addition to spending it.
Yes, I’m Gen X and “work hard, play hard” was what we called it. If YOLO is basically a modern version of that and has a productivity component that does sound better.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by Simple Simon »

Has anyone ever done this and regret it?
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JoeRetire
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by JoeRetire »

neverpanic wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:29 pm It seems like a lot of respondents are hung up on the emergency fund matter. People with the wealth level of OP do not need an emergency fund in the traditional sense.
Presumably the OP had a reason for having an emergency fund in the first place. I see nothing to indicate that the reason has disappeared.
We all have choices to make, but generally speaking, life should be lived. Doing something insane once every ten years would be great!
Why not every year? Why not every month? Perhaps every week?

Life is a matter of choices and degrees. It's not hard to "live life" enjoyably without insanity.
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JoeRetire
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by JoeRetire »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:39 pm
nigel_ht wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:28 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:41 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:36 pmMy point is that old fogies like me who had fun in life seem much happier and productive than old fogies I know who don’t have good memories to warm their later years
The don't have good memories to warm them because presumably they didn't have fun in life. Thus, they are unhappy and not productive. Hmm.

Fun while young is good. Not sure it really has anything to do with productivity later in life.
I generally think the YOLO mindset is irresponsible but there is a smidge of truth to it.
Okay. So what good is a smidge amongst an irresponsible mindset?
To fully embrace YOLO you also work hard as well as play hard.

That generally means you also make money in addition to spending it.
Yes, I’m Gen X and “work hard, play hard” was what we called it. If YOLO is basically a modern version of that and has a productivity component that does sound better.
"Work hard, play hard" and 'YOLO" aren't quite the same thing.
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AnnetteLouisan
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

JoeRetire wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:23 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:39 pm
nigel_ht wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:28 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:41 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:36 pmMy point is that old fogies like me who had fun in life seem much happier and productive than old fogies I know who don’t have good memories to warm their later years
The don't have good memories to warm them because presumably they didn't have fun in life. Thus, they are unhappy and not productive. Hmm.

Fun while young is good. Not sure it really has anything to do with productivity later in life.
I generally think the YOLO mindset is irresponsible but there is a smidge of truth to it.
Okay. So what good is a smidge amongst an irresponsible mindset?
To fully embrace YOLO you also work hard as well as play hard.

That generally means you also make money in addition to spending it.
Yes, I’m Gen X and “work hard, play hard” was what we called it. If YOLO is basically a modern version of that and has a productivity component that does sound better.
"Work hard, play hard" and 'YOLO" aren't quite the same thing.
To the extent YOLO is just a knee jerk reaction to justify any high status leveraged consumption without any work or sense, that would be negative IMHO but YMMV.

If YOLO is “work hard, play hard” plus instagram & better credit access, and more youthful abandon, it sounds like the natural evolution. Either way, learning opportunities abound for all. Fortunately decisions remain the individual’s to make.
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sergeant
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by sergeant »

Just do it!. Post back with a few pics and trip synopsis. Sounds like a great adventure.
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tetractys
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by tetractys »

CincyGuy wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:05 pm Hi All! Been a long time since I've posted here. I'm looking to get feedback on a high cost once-in-a-lifetime "vacation".

I'm looking to do a big trip for my 40th Birthday next year - specifically a polar expedition (which is why I put vacation in quotes). The cost all-in including gear, flights, and the expedition itself is ~$75K.

I'm looking to get feedback on:
1) Am I crazy? One side of me feels like I could use the $75K to buy a Tesla or keep it growing in the market. The other says that I should do stuff like this while I'm relatively young and still can. We have worked hard and saved a good amount for retirement (see below) and if I work until 50 we should have $6M or so. Also I feel like my net worth may not even "feel" it since the stock market swings our NW $50K/day sometimes.
side question: Has anyone ever done this and regret it?
2) How would you pay for it? Currently have $80k cash emergency fund (which I dislike). If save my usual taxable investment for next year (see below - $20k or so), I could simply cash flow it (which would leave me a ~3 month emergency fund next year when the big payments are due). I could also sell some vested options (incurring taxes now vs. 2026), take a margin loan, HELOC, etc. Can't put it on a no-interest CC unfortunately.

Your inputs are greatly appreciated!

Background:
Me: 39 years old
Gross: $210k/year.
Wife: $25k self-employed (almost all saved in solo 401k so don't really include that in my cash flow)
We typically save:
Max Roth $12K/year
Max 401k - $12K/year (limited by HCE) + wife ($22K/year) + My employer Contribution $33k/year - $67K/year
HSA $7.2K/year
529 - $18K/year
Taxable - anything left - currently about 20K/year
Total savings - ~$115-125K/year

NW: ~3.6M including home equity
Excluding 529, ~$3M for retirement ($1.3M taxable, $1.6M tax free or tax deferred, rest cash)
No debt except for $100K left on mortgage. Cars paid off and generally living below our means (I think).
I did that once to Egypt. I was one of the first US citizens in right after the Deir el-Bahari massacre of ‘97. We had heavy security. Other tourists were non-existent. It wasn’t as expensive as your trip; but it took everything I had. I came back to the US penniless and homeless. It was definitely worth it, and no I don’t think your crazy.
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cchrissyy
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by cchrissyy »

Surprised by how positive the replies have been.

I would help encourage you for a 10k trip. 20k even. But 75??? I'm floored. Isn't that about a year of your living expenses?

I hope you enjoy it!

I suppose with similar numbers what would hold me back is mainly job insecurity. If you are sure your earnings and savings will continue then in the long run this won't hurt you. I just know I'm not that sure and I don't think most people ought to be.


Good luck!
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ResearchMed
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by ResearchMed »

cchrissyy wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:24 pm Surprised by how positive the replies have been.

I would help encourage you for a 10k trip. 20k even. But 75??? I'm floored. Isn't that about a year of your living expenses?

I hope you enjoy it!

I suppose with similar numbers what would hold me back is mainly job insecurity. If you are sure your earnings and savings will continue then in the long run this won't hurt you. I just know I'm not that sure and I don't think most people ought to be.


Good luck!
I'm totally in favor of this, given that they *can* afford it. :happy

Rather than look at it as "Isn't that about a year of your living expenses?", how about the fact that it's considerably less than a year of savings for them:
"...Total savings - ~$115-125K/year...."
And they've already got terrific savings.

[Using the "compared with living expenses", what if they saved $1 million each year, but still lived on the same amount of expenses? What they "live on" isn't necessarily the correct metric...]

I would prefer to see some planning for what OP's wife/family can do with a vaguely similar amount.

A few years ago, we splurged and took an amazing special trip to Japan, and completely blew the "average travel budget" (and then spent a few days in Hong Kong "on the way home", as long as we were nearby, heh!).
It was The.Trip.Of.A.Lifetime, and we very frequently reminisce or look at photos. VERY frequently.
If we have any regret at all, it's that we didn't spend more and stay longer... it was beyond amazing... magical. (We had help arranging special guides and places to see, much of it off the beaten path, but including some of the "major tourist attractions", too.) We've never thought, gee, maybe we could/should have spent a bit less.

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Madvillain
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by Madvillain »

For 75k you can easily take several years off of work and travel all over the place. Hell that should give you a nice life in Eastern Europe or SE Asia for 5+ years (and much longer if you'd like). Something to think about.
Calli114
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by Calli114 »

Yes vote!
Sounds like an amazing adventure - I was fascinated when following the progress of Colin O’Brady a few years back.
And speaking as someone >60, good idea not to wait too long to do it. One travel goal I am pretty resigned to giving up is climbing Kilimanjaro, due to a couple of issues. In general, I have tried to have the mindset to prioritize any difficult trips sooner than easy ones, such as high altitude, etc.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by Wannaretireearly »

We’ve hardly ever missed a travel opportunity. Just took our dog on her first road trip this week.
Short answer to the OP is go for it. I’ve never spent that much on one trip, but have been close to that amount over a year, traveling with family & solo, many trips over 8 weeks etc.

There is something special about trips (for us). Memories made, good and bad (kid split Starbucks in my suv! ) but they live with us.
Getting out of the routine is always worth it imo. Hawaii up next at pricey Xmas and that will cost in the low 5 figures, but it’s focused time with the family which is precious.
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JoeRetire
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by JoeRetire »

tetractys wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:28 pmIt wasn’t as expensive as your trip; but it took everything I had. I came back to the US penniless and homeless. It was definitely worth it, and no I don’t think your crazy.
You used all your savings and became penniless and homeless?
What motivated this trip? Surely it wasn't just a vacation???
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by egrets »

Nicolas wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:12 pm
Watty wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:00 pm One thing to be prepared for is that if you will be going with a group then the average age may be pretty high since retired people may be the majority of the people who can afford a trip like that and have the time for it. Be sure to research that since if it you are traveling with older people that could defeat the reason for traveling when you are younger.
I don’t think there would be that many blue-haired ladies on board as traversing the Straits of Magellan and the Drake Passage can be pretty rough, or so I’ve been told. But I could be wrong.
Well, my hair isn't blue, but I'm pretty old, and I am not happy to hear that I'm not worth knowing.

OP, I would say go for it, but it is a number of times more expensive than polar trips I just found on the web, not sure if you would be getting your money's worth.
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tetractys
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by tetractys »

JoeRetire wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:12 am
tetractys wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:28 pmIt wasn’t as expensive as your trip; but it took everything I had. I came back to the US penniless and homeless. It was definitely worth it, and no I don’t think your crazy.
You used all your savings and became penniless and homeless?
What motivated this trip? Surely it wasn't just a vacation???
I scraped everything together, moved out a few days before going, and spent the rest in Egypt. Went to see the temples, pyramids and tombs along the Nile. Experiencing all that extraordinary architecture made thousands of years ago by people just like us really gave me a sense of deep belonging.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by HomerJ »

tetractys wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:34 am
JoeRetire wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:12 am
tetractys wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:28 pmIt wasn’t as expensive as your trip; but it took everything I had. I came back to the US penniless and homeless. It was definitely worth it, and no I don’t think your crazy.
You used all your savings and became penniless and homeless?
What motivated this trip? Surely it wasn't just a vacation???
I scraped everything together, moved out a few days before going, and spent the rest in Egypt. Went to see the temples, pyramids and tombs along the Nile. Experiencing all that extraordinary architecture made thousands of years ago by people just like us really gave me a sense of deep belonging.
I'm guessing you were young, right?

I spent 6 weeks in South America in my early 20s, and came home pretty close to "penniless" (but not homeless), but the whole trip cost me only about $1500. But $1500 (maybe $2000) is all I had back then.

"Penniless" in your 20s can be a natural state of affairs... :)
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TimeTheMarket
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by TimeTheMarket »

OP, I am too cheap to ever spend that on a vacation, but as for using it to buy a tesla who cares? You can buy a tesla whenever you like. If you really want to do a polar expedition why not.

Also given your current net worth and trajectory $75k is a drop in the bucket. And you're right: if you wait until 50 it could be harder to do.

Don't you dare take out a loan for a vacation, though.
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tetractys
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by tetractys »

HomerJ wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:39 am
tetractys wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:34 am
JoeRetire wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:12 am
tetractys wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:28 pmIt wasn’t as expensive as your trip; but it took everything I had. I came back to the US penniless and homeless. It was definitely worth it, and no I don’t think your crazy.
You used all your savings and became penniless and homeless?
What motivated this trip? Surely it wasn't just a vacation???
I scraped everything together, moved out a few days before going, and spent the rest in Egypt. Went to see the temples, pyramids and tombs along the Nile. Experiencing all that extraordinary architecture made thousands of years ago by people just like us really gave me a sense of deep belonging.
I'm guessing you were young, right?

I spent 6 weeks in South America in my early 20s, and came home pretty close to "penniless" (but not homeless), but the whole trip cost me only about $1500. But $1500 (maybe $2000) is all I had back then.

"Penniless" in your 20s can be a natural state of affairs... :)
Well actually early 40’s; but for me there’s not much difference… :D The whole journey was maybe $4,000. And maybe penniless is a little strong because I’ve always had good credit and work comes easy.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by nigel_ht »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:39 pm
nigel_ht wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:28 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:41 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:36 pmMy point is that old fogies like me who had fun in life seem much happier and productive than old fogies I know who don’t have good memories to warm their later years
The don't have good memories to warm them because presumably they didn't have fun in life. Thus, they are unhappy and not productive. Hmm.

Fun while young is good. Not sure it really has anything to do with productivity later in life.
I generally think the YOLO mindset is irresponsible but there is a smidge of truth to it.
Okay. So what good is a smidge amongst an irresponsible mindset?
To fully embrace YOLO you also work hard as well as play hard.

That generally means you also make money in addition to spending it.
Yes, I’m Gen X and “work hard, play hard” was what we called it. If YOLO is basically a modern version of that and has a productivity component that does sound better.
Lol. There’s more than one Nike commercial in our past…
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by MoonOrb »

KlangFool wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:51 pm
CincyGuy wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:05 pm
529 - $18K/year
Taxable - anything left - currently about 20K/year
$1.3M taxable,
CincyGuy,

1) Spend down your 80K emergency fund.

2) Refill it by

A) Do not contribute to 529
B) Do not invest your extra 20K per year in the taxable account
C) Do not reinvest your taxable account dividend and distribution.

Aka, spend the 70K without paying additional taxes.

KlangFool
Agree with this plan. Sounds like an amazing experience--enjoy!
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JoeRetire
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by JoeRetire »

tetractys wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:34 am
JoeRetire wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:12 am
tetractys wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:28 pmIt wasn’t as expensive as your trip; but it took everything I had. I came back to the US penniless and homeless. It was definitely worth it, and no I don’t think your crazy.
You used all your savings and became penniless and homeless?
What motivated this trip? Surely it wasn't just a vacation???
I scraped everything together, moved out a few days before going, and spent the rest in Egypt. Went to see the temples, pyramids and tombs along the Nile. Experiencing all that extraordinary architecture made thousands of years ago by people just like us really gave me a sense of deep belonging.
That's nice.

I would never advise people to make themselves penniless and homeless just to get a short "sense of deep belonging", but I'm glad it worked out for you.
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Zagnificent
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by Zagnificent »

You can obviously afford it, and being a place for financial discussions primarily, it seems consensus has exhaustively addressed that part of your question. Most of the comments seem to be directed to the personal value aspect of this (mine included). $75k seems a large amount to be paying for a relatively short, albeit incredibly cool trip. I'd consider some of the other alternatives that scratch the itch similarly, and perhaps at a MUCH lower price point. I'm big on value, and $75k seems disproportionately expensive to the value of what you've described. Perhaps a mountain expedition and outdoor camping trip in iceland timed for northern lights? Or something with your wife/family? You don't need internet strangers telling you what you should or should not value, or how to spend money that you have diligently earned, saved, and invested.

FWIW, I'm 7 years your younger, have a comparable or perhaps slightly greater income (~$225k before annual NQ stock options), and I cannot fathom being in the same financial position that you are by the time I'm 40. Thanks for the inspiration and motivation. It's cool to see what you've accomplished and the sort of questions you now have the benefit of pondering!
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tetractys
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by tetractys »

JoeRetire wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:14 pm
tetractys wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:34 am
JoeRetire wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:12 am
tetractys wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:28 pmIt wasn’t as expensive as your trip; but it took everything I had. I came back to the US penniless and homeless. It was definitely worth it, and no I don’t think your crazy.
You used all your savings and became penniless and homeless?
What motivated this trip? Surely it wasn't just a vacation???
I scraped everything together, moved out a few days before going, and spent the rest in Egypt. Went to see the temples, pyramids and tombs along the Nile. Experiencing all that extraordinary architecture made thousands of years ago by people just like us really gave me a sense of deep belonging.
That's nice.

I would never advise people to make themselves penniless and homeless just to get a short "sense of deep belonging", but I'm glad it worked out for you.
I would replace “short” with life changing or lasting. Senses can grow and flower. Life’s a doorway.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by HomerJ »

JoeRetire wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:14 pm
tetractys wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:34 am
JoeRetire wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:12 am
tetractys wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:28 pmIt wasn’t as expensive as your trip; but it took everything I had. I came back to the US penniless and homeless. It was definitely worth it, and no I don’t think your crazy.
You used all your savings and became penniless and homeless?
What motivated this trip? Surely it wasn't just a vacation???
I scraped everything together, moved out a few days before going, and spent the rest in Egypt. Went to see the temples, pyramids and tombs along the Nile. Experiencing all that extraordinary architecture made thousands of years ago by people just like us really gave me a sense of deep belonging.
That's nice.

I would never advise people to make themselves penniless and homeless just to get a short "sense of deep belonging", but I'm glad it worked out for you.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by srt7 »

Of course, you can afford it!! Well done to you both on getting here.

But there are better ways to scratch that itch so don't rush in to it just yet.
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by VaR »

I'll add myself to the "just do it" camp.

Here's a trip that the wife might find more attractive. She can meet you at the pole.
https://white-desert.com/adventures/sou ... -emperors/
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by Pinotage »

Wow, this looks spectacular!

OP - you can clearly afford it.

If you decide to move forward, encourage you to enjoy every step along the way (research, prep, training etc...) to maximize the anticipation and value of the experience.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by ResearchMed »

VaR wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:17 am I'll add myself to the "just do it" camp.

Here's a trip that the wife might find more attractive. She can meet you at the pole.
https://white-desert.com/adventures/sou ... -emperors/
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by 1moreyr »

mrmass wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:52 am But what will you do when you turn 50?
Tomorrow is not guaranteed... Take the trip, you can afford it. if you are still not sure, go read "Die with Zero" . it's an excellent read and helps put things in perspective

I am 8 weeks from retirement and 6 months ago had a health scare. I had a tumor in my leg. it is quite large. i don't know how i ignored it and really didnt pay attention. My retirement goal is to ride my motorcycle across country a number of times, motorcycle trip to New Zealand, HIke mountains across the USA and a road trip to Alaska....obviously i need a leg for these life goals ( i did look at options out of concern)

For 2 months as the tests were being done, I lived with the fear, though slight as it was) that I could lose my leg mid thigh or higher. I was more worried about all the retirement goals and thought about how I was a good boglehead for all these years...delaying gratification on the big ticket trips..wondering if it was a total mistake

Luckily for me, it's benign and being addressed and served as a wake up call.

There is no reason not to go. People always say to me "i would never ride a motorcycle, it's too dangerous"..... I always say the same thing.

" It's not life, if you're not living it"

Get packing ..... :sharebeer
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JoeRetire
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by JoeRetire »

HomerJ wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:11 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:14 pm
tetractys wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:34 am
JoeRetire wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:12 am
tetractys wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:28 pmIt wasn’t as expensive as your trip; but it took everything I had. I came back to the US penniless and homeless. It was definitely worth it, and no I don’t think your crazy.
You used all your savings and became penniless and homeless?
What motivated this trip? Surely it wasn't just a vacation???
I scraped everything together, moved out a few days before going, and spent the rest in Egypt. Went to see the temples, pyramids and tombs along the Nile. Experiencing all that extraordinary architecture made thousands of years ago by people just like us really gave me a sense of deep belonging.
That's nice.

I would never advise people to make themselves penniless and homeless just to get a short "sense of deep belonging", but I'm glad it worked out for you.
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Colorado Guy
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by Colorado Guy »

CincyGuy wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:05 pm I'm looking to get feedback on a high cost once-in-a-lifetime "vacation".
One thing I don't see mentioned in this thread is the possibility that this trip will go "south" in a hurry, and how you would feel if it does. You may want to watch the Everest movie of the 1996 disaster as a preparatory activity. That was a trip of a lifetime for those involved, and/or a bucket list adventure. However, many of them died...

Had a friend once who also took his trip of a lifetime. It was an unmitigated disaster. When he returned, he could not let go of spending all that money (less than $75k) and having experienced a tremendous amount of negatives. It was something he regretted for the remainder of his life. You need to be prepared for this possibility/probability.

Alternatively, it depends upon how you view what happens to you. After a trip to Ukraine/Russia, which had a number of incidents (including being escorted into a Russian holding cell, thefts, money exchange with unsavory characters...), I came back with memories of a trip of a lifetime, while I heard some on the plane saying this was the worst trip they had ever had.

If you view $75k (without a spouse) as throwaway money, that if the trip doesn't turn out as planned and you're ok with that, then that could help you make the decision.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by HomerJ »

I know one thing to be 98% certain.

Anyone who is willing to shell out $75k to trek to the South Pole for the experience, is definitely going to be someone who is going to want to go into orbit for his 50th birthday.

So you better start saving for that next "once-in-a-lifetime" experience.

(What does the spouse get to do?)
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by Marseille07 »

HomerJ wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:11 am (What does the spouse get to do?)
I think this is the important point somehow overlooked. The OP needs to talk to the spouse, not the Bogleheads.

All the affordability talk is pretty much junk, that's not the point or the question.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by Cruise »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:13 am
HomerJ wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:11 am (What does the spouse get to do?)
I think this is the important point somehow overlooked. The OP needs to talk to the spouse, not the Bogleheads.

All the affordability talk is pretty much junk, that's not the point or the question.
Actually, I think comments about what the poor spouse should be able to do are really off-topic and a moral issue that has no place in BH threads. The OP and his spouse's tradeoffs should not be an issue here. This was a financial question by OP, not a relationship question. Other threads are actually locked for relationship questions.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by Marseille07 »

Cruise wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:24 am Actually, I think comments about what the poor spouse should be able to do are really off-topic and a moral issue that has no place in BH threads. The OP and his spouse's tradeoffs should not be an issue here. This was a financial question by OP, not a relationship question. Other threads are actually locked for relationship questions.
All I said was the OP should talk to the spouse. I didn't mean to say Bogleheads should discuss what the spouse should do.

Where do you see a financial question here for someone having 3.6M NW and wanting a 75K trip? I don't see one.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by smitcat »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:28 am
Cruise wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:24 am Actually, I think comments about what the poor spouse should be able to do are really off-topic and a moral issue that has no place in BH threads. The OP and his spouse's tradeoffs should not be an issue here. This was a financial question by OP, not a relationship question. Other threads are actually locked for relationship questions.
All I said was the OP should talk to the spouse. I didn't mean to say Bogleheads should discuss what the spouse should do.

Where do you see a financial question here for someone having 3.6M NW and wanting a 75K trip? I don't see one.
"Where do you see a financial question here"
In the initial post....
"2) How would you pay for it?"
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by Marseille07 »

smitcat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:31 am
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:28 am
Cruise wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:24 am Actually, I think comments about what the poor spouse should be able to do are really off-topic and a moral issue that has no place in BH threads. The OP and his spouse's tradeoffs should not be an issue here. This was a financial question by OP, not a relationship question. Other threads are actually locked for relationship questions.
All I said was the OP should talk to the spouse. I didn't mean to say Bogleheads should discuss what the spouse should do.

Where do you see a financial question here for someone having 3.6M NW and wanting a 75K trip? I don't see one.
"Where do you see a financial question here"
In the initial post....
"2) How would you pay for it?"
Sure, if you remove the contextual information I had in my sentence. I don't know what you're trying to do.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by smitcat »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:07 pm
smitcat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:31 am
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:28 am
Cruise wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:24 am Actually, I think comments about what the poor spouse should be able to do are really off-topic and a moral issue that has no place in BH threads. The OP and his spouse's tradeoffs should not be an issue here. This was a financial question by OP, not a relationship question. Other threads are actually locked for relationship questions.
All I said was the OP should talk to the spouse. I didn't mean to say Bogleheads should discuss what the spouse should do.

Where do you see a financial question here for someone having 3.6M NW and wanting a 75K trip? I don't see one.
"Where do you see a financial question here"
In the initial post....
"2) How would you pay for it?"
Sure, if you remove the contextual information I had in my sentence. I don't know what you're trying to do.
Trying to keep the post on the subject and questions requested by the OP.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by EnjoyIt »

Cruise wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:24 am
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:13 am
HomerJ wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:11 am (What does the spouse get to do?)
I think this is the important point somehow overlooked. The OP needs to talk to the spouse, not the Bogleheads.

All the affordability talk is pretty much junk, that's not the point or the question.
Actually, I think comments about what the poor spouse should be able to do are really off-topic and a moral issue that has no place in BH threads. The OP and his spouse's tradeoffs should not be an issue here. This was a financial question by OP, not a relationship question. Other threads are actually locked for relationship questions.
Actually it does make the financial decision harder. Many spouses would say “you spent $75k for yourself. Next year I’m spending $75k on me.”
It’s fair isn’t it?

A buddy of mine I used to race with always said that whenever he spent money on himself he had to count it as twice as much because the wife will spend an equal amount later.

Another buddy wanted a once in a lifetime car. Spoke to his wife who said he deserved it. He bought it with her blessing. 3 months later she wanted an expensive car as well.

This trip can easily cost $150k and not the reported $75k.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | viewtopic.php?p=1139732#p1139732
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by afan »

"Work hard, play gently"
"Work hard, hit the gym"
"Work hard, go for a walk"
"Work hard, curl up with a good book"

None of this costs $75k. No need to tell oneself it is once in a lifetime. You can do it every day.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by iamlucky13 »

cchrissyy wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:24 pm Surprised by how positive the replies have been.

I would help encourage you for a 10k trip. 20k even. But 75??? I'm floored. Isn't that about a year of your living expenses?

I hope you enjoy it!

I suppose with similar numbers what would hold me back is mainly job insecurity. If you are sure your earnings and savings will continue then in the long run this won't hurt you. I just know I'm not that sure and I don't think most people ought to be.
From the numbers mentioned, I think it's more than a year of living expenses (not including taxes), but that is of little consequence if this is truly a once in a lifetime, or even a once per decade thing. Even in the year of the trip, the cost only takes their annual savings rate down to about 17% of gross income (assuming no hit to income due to time away from work).

If it really is about 1 year of living expenses, then it appears the OP could take the trip, lose their job, and never return to the workforce, instead retiring early on a 2.6% initial withdrawal.

I assume the intended strategy is to continue working and building up more margin, but financially, the OP seems better prepared for this $75,000 trip than I am for a recent trip for my family to visit my parents for the first time in 3 years that cost about 3% of what the OP will be spending.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by CRC_Volunteer »

The opening from the Timeless Ride.

http://thetimelessride.com/US/LC/Howdiditallstart.html

“In November 2004, while living in New York, I had dinner with my good friend Jean-Louis at l'Orange Bleu in Manhattan.

While eating a cucumber salad, Jean-Louis was telling me "When we live in a big city like New York, on december 31 our pockets are empty because for ordinary people like us, it's a lifestyle and we spend it all !"

Then we ate a couscous and Jean-Louis asked me a question I had never thought about "Now that your younger daughter Jessica is finishing her college, what are you going to do ?". As we were talking we established that if I was to sell everything I had, I had enough money to travel on my sidecar for ten years.

By the time we ate a creme brulée, it was clear to me that I had 2 choices
1 - I keep working for the next 10 years and I will be poor after that !
2 - I sell everything I have, I go travel for 10 years on my sidecar and I will be poor after that !

It did not took long, with common sense, I took my decision while drinking my coffee.

Three months later, on February 16, 2005 at 6:04 am, New York was closed, I was on my way to the Arctic Circle on the first leg of my "Ten Years on the Road".”
"Let me explain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up." (Inigo Montoya) | | 65/30/05 | 53% VTSAX | 12% VTIAX | 30% VAIPX | 5% CASH
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by cchrissyy »

@amlucky13 and @ResearchMed you're probably right

i suppose my hesitation comes from thinking "what if you never make this income and savings level again?"

is the OP's quote "We typically save..." referring to a long period or just last year's high water mark?

but anyway, my caution it most likely rooted in details of my own job and family history and not the OP's.

therefore, OP, ask yourself if you can earn and save this much elsewhere, and how robust is that plan to economic and health shocks, and, if you are still fine with it, Enjoy The Trip!
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by iamlucky13 »

tetractys wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:51 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:14 pm
tetractys wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:34 amI scraped everything together, moved out a few days before going, and spent the rest in Egypt. Went to see the temples, pyramids and tombs along the Nile. Experiencing all that extraordinary architecture made thousands of years ago by people just like us really gave me a sense of deep belonging.
I would never advise people to make themselves penniless and homeless just to get a short "sense of deep belonging", but I'm glad it worked out for you.
I would replace “short” with life changing or lasting. Senses can grow and flower. Life’s a doorway.
Clearly, you recovered in a satisfactory manner from that expenditure, which is awesome.

I would say you're getting push back from multiple posters based on the way you presented that experience because it seems to suggest it is prudent to do it this way. Of course, some of the most significant historic events trace back to decisions that should not really be viewed as prudent from an individual risk standpoint, including the Amundsen and Scott expeditions.

I would wager that the majority of people who make themselves penniless and homeless for the sake of a non-essential experience end up deeply regretting it.

My own take on this dichotomy is to be careful to make decisions in full knowledge of what the risks are. No one is ever going to convince me that Scott did not deeply regret his South Pole expedition in the final days, but I also am pretty certain he had a good understanding that there was a significant risk he could die an agonizing death when he committed to it, so I have no desire to scoff at him for the decision that actually did lead to an agonizing death.

Just for clarity, I'm not bringing up Scott's expedition to dissuade the OP. I just like to use this example of a grave risk since it's south pole related. There is, of course, still non-trivial risk in trekking to the south pole, even from only 80 miles away, but it's significantly reduced compared to 1912 by the availability of portable radios, mechanized transportation, and over a century's worth of infrastructure development in the antarctic regions since then. I also see very little financial risk from the OP's position. Nonetheless, the OP needs to be fully aware of the risks, and some of the statements he made earlier in the thread suggest to me he is.
cchrissyy wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:14 pm @amlucky13
but anyway, my caution it most likely rooted in details of my own job and family history and not the OP's.
To be fair, I'm pretty sure my own details are closer to yours than CincyGuy's. From my position, the question is academic, since I don't expect to ever afford a trip like this. It's just that the math keeps telling me CincyGuy has more saved up today than I anticipate accumulating over the next 20 years, and he seems able and intent on continuing to save more.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by Darth Xanadu »

afan wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:50 pm "Work hard, play gently"
"Work hard, hit the gym"
"Work hard, go for a walk"
"Work hard, curl up with a good book"

None of this costs $75k. No need to tell oneself it is once in a lifetime. You can do it every day.
Until you can't.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by BigLaw Survivor »

CincyGuy wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:01 pm
surfstar wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:21 pm I'll endorse your spending, but only if you can tell us your secret to that NW at that age with that savings rate. crypto? IPO? lol
Great question. Actually it's all about this community. I've been working now full time for about 15 years, but only seriously started investing about 10 years ago. At that time one of my good friends introduced me to this forum and I've been a frequent reader (only a few time poster ever since).

Definitely no IPOs and only started dabbling in Crypto with my "fun money" (which I think is not even an allowed discussion point here). No inheritance either. Have just worked at MegaCorp (my wife at the same one until a few years ago), and worked slowly up the corporate ladder to the fun place of middle management. But really it comes down to budgeting and living below your means and just continuing to save as much as you can as early as you can and following the simple portfolio philosophies here. We are at 85% stocks (60% US, 25% Intl), 15% Bonds and have very simple portfolio, where everything is an ETF except for MegaCorp stock which I'm locked into. That's what this community is about, and it's served me well!
Was your wife making as much as you before she cut back after having kids? I’m asking because your net worth seems very high to me based on your income and I can’t figure out how you pulled it off. If the two of you together are pulling in less than 250k a year and saving and investing as much as you are, how much is your family actually living on after taxes and saving/investing? 50k a year, if that?

I’m real curious to get a glimpse of your household budget.

In any event, I’d absolutely one hundred percent take your trip and think nothing of it. You can easily afford it and you’ll forever regret not doing it. When I turned 50 about 10 years ago we had a similar net worth to yours and spent over $100k taking my entire family (wife and me, four adult kids and my son—in-law) on a high-end three week African adventure/safari. We had the time of our lives and it had no material impact on our financial future whatsoever. YOLO and you’ve earned it.
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by 8foot7 »

Another do it vote assuming you have the cash.
No one on their death bed looks back and says, "you know, that polar expedition was really dumb, I wish I had more in mutual funds"
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Re: High Cost Once-in-a-lifetime "Vacation"

Post by JoeRetire »

CRC_Volunteer wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:12 pm The opening from the Timeless Ride.

http://thetimelessride.com/US/LC/Howdiditallstart.html

“In November 2004, while living in New York, I had dinner with my good friend Jean-Louis at l'Orange Bleu in Manhattan.

While eating a cucumber salad, Jean-Louis was telling me "When we live in a big city like New York, on december 31 our pockets are empty because for ordinary people like us, it's a lifestyle and we spend it all !"

Then we ate a couscous and Jean-Louis asked me a question I had never thought about "Now that your younger daughter Jessica is finishing her college, what are you going to do ?". As we were talking we established that if I was to sell everything I had, I had enough money to travel on my sidecar for ten years.

By the time we ate a creme brulée, it was clear to me that I had 2 choices
1 - I keep working for the next 10 years and I will be poor after that !
2 - I sell everything I have, I go travel for 10 years on my sidecar and I will be poor after that !

It did not took long, with common sense, I took my decision while drinking my coffee.

Three months later, on February 16, 2005 at 6:04 am, New York was closed, I was on my way to the Arctic Circle on the first leg of my "Ten Years on the Road".”
Creme brulée is nice.
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