Firing Painter
Firing Painter
So, 3 weeks ago, hired a painter for 3900 to paint the exterior my house. I gave him an 800 dollar deposit fo get started the day he started. I requested a written contract numerous times, he never provided. There have been a bunch of very nice days where he has just not showed up to paint. Now, my house is half painted and looks very sloppy. Further, he took my shutters to paint at home and never brought back. I have called and texted him almost 20 times over the past 7 days and have not gotten any response. literally no response. My emails have been been to call me asap, respond asap etc. These have all been beautiful days where they could have painted. Now its getting cold and I doubt I can get someone to finish before EOY. Suffice to say DW is not thrilled.
My thought is to send an email (we have communicated via email before) saying respond by end of day tomorrow or you are fired. I am not paying any more money and hiring someone else to finish.
I'm a lawyer, so my threat(but not actual thought) is to go after him and say he should pay anything over the 3900 agreed upon price that I need to pay to fix. But in reality, he can keep the 800 dollars for the paint he has already done and we can go our separate ways peacefully.
Am I being unreasonable?
My thought is to send an email (we have communicated via email before) saying respond by end of day tomorrow or you are fired. I am not paying any more money and hiring someone else to finish.
I'm a lawyer, so my threat(but not actual thought) is to go after him and say he should pay anything over the 3900 agreed upon price that I need to pay to fix. But in reality, he can keep the 800 dollars for the paint he has already done and we can go our separate ways peacefully.
Am I being unreasonable?
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Re: Firing Painter
No, you're handling it fairly. Move on.
What are you going to do about the shutters?
What are you going to do about the shutters?
Re: Firing Painter
I think I probably just let it go, order new shutters (they arent that expensive).dukeblue219 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:53 pm No, you're handling it fairly. Move on.
What are you going to do about the shutters?
What is my alternative? find where he lives nad go take them? It's not ideal, but I can probably get new ones for like 1000. Given that plus the amt we will probably have ot pay someone ot finish, I think we likely break even with a lesson learned (dont let poeple take your shutters).
- cheese_breath
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Re: Firing Painter
Keep all your Emails and texts. He sounds like the type who might take you to small claims court to try to get the whole $3900. But I wouldn't worry about it with this kind of evidence.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
- Sandtrap
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Re: Firing Painter
Likely not a reputable licensed insured bonded painting contractor. Should have never started without a signed contract. And….what type of contract?B3GINN3R wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:50 pm So, 3 weeks ago, hired a painter for 3900 to paint the exterior my house. I gave him an 800 dollar deposit fo get started the day he started. I requested a written contract numerous times, he never provided. There have been a bunch of very nice days where he has just not showed up to paint. Now, my house is half painted and looks very sloppy. Further, he took my shutters to paint at home and never brought back. I have called and texted him almost 20 times over the past 7 days and have not gotten any response. literally no response. My emails have been been to call me asap, respond asap etc. These have all been beautiful days where they could have painted. Now its getting cold and I doubt I can get someone to finish before EOY. Suffice to say DW is not thrilled.
My thought is to send an email (we have communicated via email before) saying respond by end of day tomorrow or you are fired. I am not paying any more money and hiring someone else to finish.
I'm a lawyer, so my threat(but not actual thought) is to go after him and say he should pay anything over the 3900 agreed upon price that I need to pay to fix. But in reality, he can keep the 800 dollars for the paint he has already done and we can go our separate ways peacefully.
Am I being unreasonable?
1 say goodbye to the 800 bucks.
Call several reputable licensed insured bonded painting contractors for quotes and have your home painted perfectly.
The construction/ painting contract should have payment and work stages, retainage 10%, deposit, date of start, date of completion, specs on paint and details on prep and application, etc.
Visit the local contractors supply centers for Benjamin Moore, Glidden, etc, and have their rep look at your home and write up the project specs. They will have a bunch of painting contractors they work with that are very good to give you estimates.
Avoid: bog box stores, hsndypersonages, unlicensed painters with a van or truck and a dog in the passenger seat, etc.
verify all licensure data the city contractors center.
That you are a lawyer means that many will avoid you at this point. And likely any legal action will be as fruitful and frustrating as wringing water from a stone.
But do send an email and mailed hard copy that his services are immediately terminated and no access to your property so he doesn’t poke around later.
J
Last edited by Sandtrap on Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Firing Painter
Since you're a lawyer, you could send him a strongly worded letter in your attorney voice, stating that he has been terminated and if he doesn't return the shudders, you will be seeking damages for them. You've already counted it as a loss, so what could it hurt, even if you have no plans on ever trying to get money out of him for them.
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Re: Firing Painter
You *could* offer that he can drop them off at your house when you're not home if you think he might just be embarrassed or non-confrontational.Bigt3142 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:13 pm Since you're a lawyer, you could send him a strongly worded letter in your attorney voice, stating that he has been terminated and if he doesn't return the shudders, you will be seeking damages for them. You've already counted it as a loss, so what could it hurt, even if you have no plans on ever trying to get money out of him for them.
Re: Firing Painter
Maybe he died, is ill, or is having some other major issue? Ask the police to do a welfare check.
If the work is truly shoddy and incomplete for no valid reason, leave a negative review on Yelp or Google Maps.
If the work is truly shoddy and incomplete for no valid reason, leave a negative review on Yelp or Google Maps.
Re: Firing Painter
Fire him. Unfortunately this is how the majority of contractors seem to be.
They are terrible at communicating. They are terrible at basic business stuff. They are horribly unreliable, etc.
Good thing you’ve only given him $800 and your shutters so far.
They are terrible at communicating. They are terrible at basic business stuff. They are horribly unreliable, etc.
Good thing you’ve only given him $800 and your shutters so far.
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Re: Firing Painter
What’s the contract say?
Re: Firing Painter
It's too late in this case, but there is a lesson to be learned from this. Don't fork over any money or let the worker start on the job until you have a written contract in place. Otherwise there is an unwritten contract in place, part oral, part implicit, and with many key terms missing. If the worker doesn't have a form of written agreement, get one yourself with the terms you want and have him/her sign it.
- cheese_breath
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Re: Firing Painter
There is no contract. OP said he asked for one several times, but the painter never provided it.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
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Re: Firing Painter
As a lawyer you should have know better. You let him begin the work without a signed contract. Was the painter licensed and operating legally under his license designation? Did he work alone and if not did he provide a workers compensation certificate? Was he insured and if so did he provide an insurance certificate? Too many people deem these items all a waste of time until something goes wrong.
Suggestion
Cut bait and run. Consider it a lesson learned.
Suggestion
Cut bait and run. Consider it a lesson learned.
Re: Firing Painter
I’d notify him that he has a limited amount of time to return the shutters, like 48 hours.
And if he doesn’t comply, that you’ll report them as stolen.
And if he doesn’t comply, that you’ll report them as stolen.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
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Re: Firing Painter
Made a payment before the contract? Crazy.cheese_breath wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:27 pm There is no contract. OP said he asked for one several times, but the painter never provided it.
Tell him he’s got 24 hours to respond and return the $800 or your reporting him to DPOR and filing a suit.
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Re: Firing Painter
Yeah the shutters should not be hard to get back. It’s theft if he does not return. And if he returns them but tries to get the 3100 he will lose that as well because he left your house half painted for weeks without corresponding and never finished the job. Not having a contract works both ways. You simply say the verbal contract required finishing the job within some reasonable time.
Re: Firing Painter
You gave him $800 without a contract?
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- Sandtrap
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Re: Firing Painter
+1
Outstanding!
If you have his home address, go pick them up. Bring some friends.
j
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Re: Firing Painter
Eh it seems unlikely he’ll get the 800. The shutters on the other hand should be easy .. it’s theft.ddurrett896 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:04 pmMade a payment before the contract? Crazy.cheese_breath wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:27 pm There is no contract. OP said he asked for one several times, but the painter never provided it.
Tell him he’s got 24 hours to respond and return the $800 or your reporting him to DPOR and filing a suit.
Re: Firing Painter
Yes, he used it to purchase the materials (which are still at my house...) very weird scenario that I should have/could have avoided.
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Re: Firing Painter
Getting half your house painted for $800 isn’t so bad...
Re: Firing Painter
As an attorney, you surely must know better than to hand him cash, without a signed contract that has a stated completion date. FWIW, I like the above post regarding stolen shutters. Other that that, you’re probably out of luck. Consider this a lesson learned.
Re: Firing Painter
honestly, i agree. The question is whether 800 dollars plus the grief ive gotten from DW is worth it.skierincolorado wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:20 pmGetting half your house painted for $800 isn’t so bad...
Re: Firing Painter
Yes, he gave me such a good price though i fell for it. Should have been my first tip off....He also had some good reviews.bradinsky wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:31 pm As an attorney, you surely must know better than to hand him cash, without a signed contract that has a stated completion date. FWIW, I like the above post regarding stolen shutters. Other that that, you’re probably out of luck. Consider this a lesson learned.
Re: Firing Painter
Been there & done that. Difference is, I’m not an attorney When it happened to me I was a young guy & naive to the business world. Married with little kids & very little money. I didn’t, but I really wanted to find him & extract my pound of flesh. I definitely learned a lot from that experience!B3GINN3R wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:37 pmYes, he gave me such a good price though i fell for it. He also had some good reviews.bradinsky wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:31 pm As an attorney, you surely must know better than to hand him cash, without a signed contract that has a stated completion date. FWIW, I like the above post regarding stolen shutters. Other that that, you’re probably out of luck. Consider this a lesson learned.
Re: Firing Painter
If you still have most of the materials in return for the 800 then you are probably in ok shape, if you get the shutters back. Like the others I think this part seems pretty easy, as you have a very clear case of theft if he doesn’t return them.
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Re: Firing Painter
So you are a JD and you did not have a fully executed contract in place?B3GINN3R wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:50 pm So, 3 weeks ago, hired a painter for 3900 to paint the exterior my house. I gave him an 800 dollar deposit fo get started the day he started. I requested a written contract numerous times, he never provided. There have been a bunch of very nice days where he has just not showed up to paint. Now, my house is half painted and looks very sloppy. Further, he took my shutters to paint at home and never brought back. I have called and texted him almost 20 times over the past 7 days and have not gotten any response. literally no response. My emails have been been to call me asap, respond asap etc. These have all been beautiful days where they could have painted. Now its getting cold and I doubt I can get someone to finish before EOY. Suffice to say DW is not thrilled.
My thought is to send an email (we have communicated via email before) saying respond by end of day tomorrow or you are fired. I am not paying any more money and hiring someone else to finish.
I'm a lawyer, so my threat(but not actual thought) is to go after him and say he should pay anything over the 3900 agreed upon price that I need to pay to fix. But in reality, he can keep the 800 dollars for the paint he has already done and we can go our separate ways peacefully.
Am I being unreasonable?
Quite honestly, this is your own fault.
Re: Firing Painter
Back when I had less to lose, I had a similar problem. I did show up at the wrongdoer's house with a couple of my "associates" and we made such a scene that the neighbors called the police. If you go this route (not recommended), when PD arrives you explain the situation and you just want your shutters back. Chances are the contractor will hand them over. It worked for me. The $800 is sunk costs. Replacement shutters may be cheap but the labor to reinstall them correctly may not be.
- Sandtrap
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Re: Firing Painter
So true.shunkman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:40 pmBack when I had less to lose, I had a similar problem. I did show up at the wrongdoer's house with a couple of my "associates" and we made such a scene that the neighbors called the police. If you go this route (not recommended), when PD arrives you explain the situation and you just want your shutters back. Chances are the contractor will hand them over. It worked for me. The $800 is sunk costs. Replacement shutters may be cheap but the labor to reinstall them correctly may not be.
And, the shutters might have been custom fitted to begin with.
Were your "associates" really big and wore faded leather jackets with a club logo on the back and rode "chopper" Harleys?
j
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Re: Firing Painter
Were his reviews on his own website or something like Nextdoor? I have found that site helpful to find good info, and it's also a place to alert others about him.B3GINN3R wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:37 pmYes, he gave me such a good price though i fell for it. Should have been my first tip off....He also had some good reviews.bradinsky wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:31 pm As an attorney, you surely must know better than to hand him cash, without a signed contract that has a stated completion date. FWIW, I like the above post regarding stolen shutters. Other that that, you’re probably out of luck. Consider this a lesson learned.
You could send a final email saying he has just so many hours or days to return your shutters and half the money (he did do some work), or you will begin posting negative reviews and will complain to authorities. He may decide to reply favorably. I agree that regardless, you probably don't need this guy doing anymore work on work house anyway and should move on.
We just had our house painted for several thousand dollars and I am glad they're gone. They did a good job painting, but they just didn't have the skill to strip and stain the front door and replace some rotten trim. Thankfully, those items were listed in our contract so we agreed for them to knock off a few hundred and leave.
Re: Firing Painter
Alright let’s move past the fact that the attorney made the mistake. With only 800 dollars at stake, I didn’t worry about it too much. I am in the midst of a 6 figure renovation (which is otherwise going well and documented) and got a little fast and loose.Trader Joe wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:05 pmSo you are a JD and you did not have a fully executed contract in place?B3GINN3R wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:50 pm So, 3 weeks ago, hired a painter for 3900 to paint the exterior my house. I gave him an 800 dollar deposit fo get started the day he started. I requested a written contract numerous times, he never provided. There have been a bunch of very nice days where he has just not showed up to paint. Now, my house is half painted and looks very sloppy. Further, he took my shutters to paint at home and never brought back. I have called and texted him almost 20 times over the past 7 days and have not gotten any response. literally no response. My emails have been been to call me asap, respond asap etc. These have all been beautiful days where they could have painted. Now its getting cold and I doubt I can get someone to finish before EOY. Suffice to say DW is not thrilled.
My thought is to send an email (we have communicated via email before) saying respond by end of day tomorrow or you are fired. I am not paying any more money and hiring someone else to finish.
I'm a lawyer, so my threat(but not actual thought) is to go after him and say he should pay anything over the 3900 agreed upon price that I need to pay to fix. But in reality, he can keep the 800 dollars for the paint he has already done and we can go our separate ways peacefully.
Am I being unreasonable?
Quite honestly, this is your own fault.
I really just want my shutters back and to part ways. He left about 2000 of equipment at my house (power washer, ladders, paint, supplies), so I feel like he has to come back at some point. Otherwise I guess I’ll just sell that stuff after the statutory amt of time for abandonment and recoup my costs.
Re: Firing Painter
As a fellow professional painter, I say fire him. He clearly hasn't communicated, he's shown you no respect, and apparently just doesn't care. Fire him.
Contractors and small business owners need to understand that communication and following through on your word is paramount to success.
Contractors and small business owners need to understand that communication and following through on your word is paramount to success.
Re: Firing Painter
My mother had someone take her car to paint it. A year and multiple requests later the perp still had not returned it. I told her to call the sheriff and report it as stolen. Turns out the perp was on parole and this was enough to violate him back to prison...and mom got her car back.
"Never underestimate one's capacity to overestimate one's abilities" - The Dunning-Kruger Effect
Re: Firing Painter
just find another shoddy painter and give him $800 to paint the rest of the house.....problem solved!!
Re: Firing Painter
In that case (other than the shutters), it sounds like you're the one who has been fired in this scenario.
I take it back. Something has obviously happened to this person; something far worse than having your house in a state of half-painted shoddy lookingness. They have done the labor to obtain materials and paint half of your house and have made $0 money on you (because the money you gave them went to buy materials), and they have left at least $1200 worth of their equipment needed for their livelihood at your house, which is more than your used shutters in need of paint are worth.
"The only thing that makes life possible is permanent, intolerable uncertainty; not knowing what comes next." ~Ursula LeGuin
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Re: Firing Painter
Well that changes my assumptions a bit. I wonder if this guy got arrested, injured, died, left town in an emergency, etc. It's certainly possible.B3GINN3R wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:19 pm I really just want my shutters back and to part ways. He left about 2000 of equipment at my house (power washer, ladders, paint, supplies), so I feel like he has to come back at some point. Otherwise I guess I’ll just sell that stuff after the statutory amt of time for abandonment and recoup my costs.
Re: Firing Painter
You are not far off. Let's just say my "associates" were not the type of characters you might see knocking on doors and handing out religious pamphlets.Sandtrap wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:56 pmSo true.shunkman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:40 pmBack when I had less to lose, I had a similar problem. I did show up at the wrongdoer's house with a couple of my "associates" and we made such a scene that the neighbors called the police. If you go this route (not recommended), when PD arrives you explain the situation and you just want your shutters back. Chances are the contractor will hand them over. It worked for me. The $800 is sunk costs. Replacement shutters may be cheap but the labor to reinstall them correctly may not be.
And, the shutters might have been custom fitted to begin with.
Were your "associates" really big and wore faded leather jackets with a club logo on the back and rode "chopper" Harleys?
j
Re: Firing Painter
Yeah, no kidding. I'd feel pretty crappy if the guy was in the hospital.
dukeblue219 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:54 pmWell that changes my assumptions a bit. I wonder if this guy got arrested, injured, died, left town in an emergency, etc. It's certainly possible.B3GINN3R wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:19 pm I really just want my shutters back and to part ways. He left about 2000 of equipment at my house (power washer, ladders, paint, supplies), so I feel like he has to come back at some point. Otherwise I guess I’ll just sell that stuff after the statutory amt of time for abandonment and recoup my costs.
Re: Firing Painter
B3GINN3R wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:33 pmhonestly, i agree. The question is whether 800 dollars plus the grief ive gotten from DW is worth it.skierincolorado wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:20 pmGetting half your house painted for $800 isn’t so bad...
Isn’t it even better than $800 for half the house ? He said the painter used it to buy the materials which are still in his garage. He just got free labor for half his house and paint at painters’ discounted prices.
I’m starting to wonder if the guy is ok. This doesn’t sound like he’s scamming anyone in this scenario.
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Re: Firing Painter
Classy
shunkman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:40 pmBack when I had less to lose, I had a similar problem. I did show up at the wrongdoer's house with a couple of my "associates" and we made such a scene that the neighbors called the police. If you go this route (not recommended), when PD arrives you explain the situation and you just want your shutters back. Chances are the contractor will hand them over. It worked for me. The $800 is sunk costs. Replacement shutters may be cheap but the labor to reinstall them correctly may not be.
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Re: Firing Painter
Didn’t realize the high value of materials abandoned. Seems likely he is injured sick or in jail.
Re: Firing Painter
Agree with others. Leaving $2000 of equipment at your house doesn't sound like he took another job that pays 20% higher. Combined with the non-responsiveness over the last week, sounds like something happened to him. Do you have any other way to get in touch with his co-worker, girlfriend/wife, etc?
He started 3 weeks ago, but has only been fully non-responsive for the last week. What about for the 2 weeks after you hired him?
He started 3 weeks ago, but has only been fully non-responsive for the last week. What about for the 2 weeks after you hired him?
Re: Firing Painter
He was not super responsive to communications the first two weeks but showed up probably 7 days to paint. I have no way of getting in touch with this guy.
I’ve only come up with few possible scenarios: someone offered him a bunch of money for our old shutters which covers the abandoned equipment or he has somehow been incapacitated.
Honestly jail death or serious hospitalization are only things I can see as potential acceptable excuses. Everything else he could have sent a text. Even if it is one of those acceptable excuses, still is time to find a new painter
I’ve only come up with few possible scenarios: someone offered him a bunch of money for our old shutters which covers the abandoned equipment or he has somehow been incapacitated.
Honestly jail death or serious hospitalization are only things I can see as potential acceptable excuses. Everything else he could have sent a text. Even if it is one of those acceptable excuses, still is time to find a new painter
Re: Firing Painter
FWIW, he might be involved with drugs or alcohol. Sad to say, but many trades have that issue. He might have used credit to purchase paint & materials and used the $800 you gave him as fun money. You have his equipment if you need to sell it & as you’re aware, he has mechanics liens. Hopefully you can come to some resolution on this soon.
Re: Firing Painter
One thing to consider is whether he might put a lien on your house for the remainder of the payment.
I would definitely get some acknowledgement from him if at all possible.
You're a lawyer, check the laws in your state.
I would definitely get some acknowledgement from him if at all possible.
You're a lawyer, check the laws in your state.
Re: Firing Painter
Given lack of contract, lack of completion, lack of communication, I would be glad to challenge any lien he put in place. Also in my state, since there is no way he is licensed, he doesnt have lien rights.
Also given his max claim would be 2500ish, I dont know that he would go thru the trouble of hiring a lawyer.
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Re: Firing Painter
As bad as this is, if he painted half the house and the agreed upon price was 3900, would you owe 1950 for the current work done?
In any case like many have said, something serious probably happened since he doesn’t have his equipment to be working somewhere else. I would definitely fire him at this point, but would be more understandable about his equipment and not sell it right after any legal statutory time required.
In any case like many have said, something serious probably happened since he doesn’t have his equipment to be working somewhere else. I would definitely fire him at this point, but would be more understandable about his equipment and not sell it right after any legal statutory time required.
Re: Firing Painter
If he's listed on Yelp or any other similar sites you might want to give him a one-star with your specifics to help other people avoid this guy.