Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Larger than normal income this year has me looking at a Donor Advised Fund for tax relief. Does anybody have experience with opening and operating a DAF with either of these firms? The BH Wiki was a great starting place and I plan to move ahead. Thanks.
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I highly recommend Fidelity FWIW. I use them for my DAF and it's quite easy.
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I have used Schwab for the past few years and been very satisfied. It is particularly easy to repeat grants to your favorites. Contributions and grants are all acknowledged by Schwab via letter. At the end of the year, they prepare a statement for your tax file.
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Vanguard is fine but Fidelity and Schwab have lower minimum $$ amounts to open.
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Fidelity is better than Vanguard. Lower minimums.
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Also recommend Fidelity.
Very easy to use and lower minimum.
Very easy to use and lower minimum.
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Vanguard has been great if you're ok with slightly higher minimums.
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I really like Fidelity's DAF and integration with the Fidelity brokerage account. I can pick the exact lots to donate from the online interface, and if I do it during market hours they get liquidated immediately so I know almost exactly how much cash is going to settle for gifting. The shares leave the account immediately too. This is all done online in about 5 minutes. No delayed timing, phone calls, paper forms, coordinating with other people, etc. Fidelity also has no funding minimum to open right now.
I do not have direct experience with the other DAFs...they may have similar features and conveniences, I am not sure.
I do not have direct experience with the other DAFs...they may have similar features and conveniences, I am not sure.
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Schwab has been great for us. Easy online interface, paperwork is 100% done right, investment management 'just works', and it does what it says on the label.
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I just opened one at Vanguard two days ago. So far, the instructions and transactions have been straightforward. I'm still waiting for the transferred shares to settle. There is a required minimum balance of $25000 to avoid a $250 account maintenance fee assessed every February though.
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Fidelity
Amateur investors are not cool-headed logicians.
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I prefer Vanguard because I have my investments at Vanguard and and I can link directly to Vanguard Charitable to make contributions to my DAF account. I also like Vanguard Charitable's portfolio options.
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I didn't know this. Are they saying that, at any time during the life of the account, if your balance ever falls below $25000, in addition to the usual 0.60% account administration fee, you have to pay extra $250 low balance fee?SpaghettiMonster wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:40 pm I just opened one at Vanguard two days ago. So far, the instructions and transactions have been straightforward. I'm still waiting for the transferred shares to settle. There is a required minimum balance of $25000 to avoid a $250 account maintenance fee assessed every February though.
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I don’t know. I just saw this in the FAQs on Vanguardcharitable. I’ve only had an account with them for a couple of days and will not have been with them long enough (6 months per the FAQs) to be assessed the fee in 2022. Maybe someone who’s been with them longer can speak to this?Faith20879 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:46 pmI didn't know this. Are they saying that, at any time during the life of the account, if your balance ever falls below $25000, in addition to the usual 0.60% account administration fee, you have to pay extra $250 low balance fee?SpaghettiMonster wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:40 pm I just opened one at Vanguard two days ago. So far, the instructions and transactions have been straightforward. I'm still waiting for the transferred shares to settle. There is a required minimum balance of $25000 to avoid a $250 account maintenance fee assessed every February though.
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I agree with this. I chose Vanguard Charitable because I have my taxable account at Vanguard. VC has great customer service.fourwheelcycle wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:44 pm I prefer Vanguard because I have my investments at Vanguard and and I can link directly to Vanguard Charitable to make contributions to my DAF account. I also like Vanguard Charitable's portfolio options.
I believe I will make my last contribution to my DAF this year. I will then re-evaluate if I keep it at VC because having it linked to my V account will no longer matter.
52% TSM, 23% TISM, 24.5% TBM, 0.5% cash
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I'm in the same position for the same reasons. We have our HSAs at Fidelity but most of our other investments at Vanguard. I'll re-evaluate whether to leave the DAF at Vanguard or move it to Fidelity in the next year or so.mhc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:05 pmI agree with this. I chose Vanguard Charitable because I have my taxable account at Vanguard. VC has great customer service.fourwheelcycle wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:44 pm I prefer Vanguard because I have my investments at Vanguard and and I can link directly to Vanguard Charitable to make contributions to my DAF account. I also like Vanguard Charitable's portfolio options.
I believe I will make my last contribution to my DAF this year. I will then re-evaluate if I keep it at VC because having it linked to my V account will no longer matter.
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify. Then ignore the noise!
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I recently opened a DAF at Schwab--and it was super easy. I was able to set up the fund and contribute from my Schwab account in less then 10 minutes. I was even easily allowed to select which tranche of mutual funds to contribute the lowest basis (which I'm sure is on your radar-- but something to be noted for anyone considering a DAF). The account showed up seamlessly in my computer and phone applications.
I have not funded any grants -- but have looked up all the organizations I like to support and easily found them.
Since opening the account -- I have changed my investment mix and it applied by end of day. I did call once -- but it was because I misspelled what I wanted the fund name to be (my fault) and I was treated with the typical above average Schwab customer service.
I can only speak to my limited expirence -- but I would recommend them to others.
Good luck on your search and happy donating!
I have not funded any grants -- but have looked up all the organizations I like to support and easily found them.
Since opening the account -- I have changed my investment mix and it applied by end of day. I did call once -- but it was because I misspelled what I wanted the fund name to be (my fault) and I was treated with the typical above average Schwab customer service.
I can only speak to my limited expirence -- but I would recommend them to others.
Good luck on your search and happy donating!
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
A brand new option started by a former coworker and former CEO of Wealthfront:
https://www.daffy.org/ (daffy = Donor Advised Fund For You)
$3/mo if you contribute < $25K a year, otherwise is $20/mo vs some percentage of funds at Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab etc
https://www.daffy.org/membership
Some press/interviews:
https://www.wealthmanagement.com/techno ... -adam-nash
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... u%E2%84%A2
https://www.daffy.org/ (daffy = Donor Advised Fund For You)
$3/mo if you contribute < $25K a year, otherwise is $20/mo vs some percentage of funds at Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab etc
https://www.daffy.org/membership
Some press/interviews:
https://www.wealthmanagement.com/techno ... -adam-nash
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... u%E2%84%A2
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I suggest setting up the DAF with the same branding as whichever brokerage holds the bulk of the assets which you plan to donate. It's just simpler to link the accounts this way. For me, that's Vanguard Brokerage and Vanguard Charitable. Donations start from the Vanguard Brokerage side. In the case of mutual funds, it all happens in one overnight cycle, just like a mutual fund exchange.
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I used Schwab DAF for years. Last year noticed significant delays in money getting to my chosen charities, sometimes as long as 2-3 months. These delays occured even on repeat contributions to charities I'd sent to in previous years.
Switched to Fidelity Charitable and it has been seamless.
Switched to Fidelity Charitable and it has been seamless.
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
We’ve been in the Fidelity DAF for over 20 years and never had an issue. All donations, to a wide range of charities, processed promptly with never a challenge, a tech issue, a human error, or any other problem
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Wow, I wonder if that might have had more to do with the postal service challenges in some areas rather than Schwab?
I have a Schwab DAF and did not experience any problems last year.
That said, a charity I work closely with did have a lot of problems with its mail not getting delivered (though fortunately none of my Schwab checks were affected.)
Apparently there is now an Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT) service that DAFs can sign up for which can enable charities to get DAF donations via EFT. https://independentsector.org/news-post ... ilize-eft/
Fidelity and Schwab are among the DAFs that support this EFT, though obviously your charity of choice would also have to sign up.
Interestingly Vanguard does not seem to offer this.
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Fwiw, 90+% of my assets are w/ Vanguard and I still picked Fidelity for this: (1) smaller gift limit, (2) more favorable fee structure, (3) just seemed to be more tightly run.
I can have Fidelity do a "pull" of specific funds/shares from Vanguard it usually takes <1 week and is all electronic. Then it takes <1 day to contribute them to the DAF. Really impressively seamless.
I can have Fidelity do a "pull" of specific funds/shares from Vanguard it usually takes <1 week and is all electronic. Then it takes <1 day to contribute them to the DAF. Really impressively seamless.
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Very interesting. Do you initiate the request online or via a call?
We are trying to decide between Fidelity and Vanguard and so far are in agreement with your assessment.
Vanguard's rules and requirements seem to leave room for debating. For example, they have requirements for new account and on-going minimum balances. What happens if there is a big spike in the prices during the transaction, all of a sudden I no longer meet the requirement? Do they close my account or start to nickel-and-dime me?
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Vanguard Charitable is a different organization, more or less, from Vanguard "regular", I think.Faith20879 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:06 pmVery interesting. Do you initiate the request online or via a call?
We are trying to decide between Fidelity and Vanguard and so far are in agreement with your assessment.
Vanguard's rules and requirements seem to leave room for debating. For example, they have requirements for new account and on-going minimum balances. What happens if there is a big spike in the prices during the transaction, all of a sudden I no longer meet the requirement? Do they close my account or start to nickel-and-dime me?
That said, on the regular side of Vanguard, I think they've told me they're at least somewhat flexible on minimums, if the dip below a minimum is caused by market fluctuations. i.e. If there's a $50K minimum, and you start with $55K, but that falls to $45K due to market drop, probably get a long grace period. But if it drops to $45K because you pull $10K out, maybe not so much...
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I might find out later today. Yesterday, I opened a Vanguard DAF with a transfer of shares of a Vanguard mutual fund out of a taxable account and I tried to hit their minimum of $25K with the number of shares I needed at the fund price shown last night late. As of this minute, no dollar amount has posted in my new account. Either the market drop today pulled my transfer amount below their minimum, or they haven't completed opening and funding my account yet. I wonder what they will do if instead of the $26K my shares were worth yesterday they are only worth $24,999. today.Faith20879 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:06 pmVery interesting. Do you initiate the request online or via a call?
We are trying to decide between Fidelity and Vanguard and so far are in agreement with your assessment.
Vanguard's rules and requirements seem to leave room for debating. For example, they have requirements for new account and on-going minimum balances. What happens if there is a big spike in the prices during the transaction, all of a sudden I no longer meet the requirement? Do they close my account or start to nickel-and-dime me?
I happened to choose to transfer shares of the S&P 500 index fund Admiral to fund this DAF. I chose those shares because of all my accounts, I have held these the longest. I don't know exactly what my capital gains would be if I sold them instead of transferring into a DAF, but without any other compelling reason to choose shares of one of my other funds, I went with S&P 500. Would you have used different reasoning to choose?
Last edited by praxis on Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Can you elaborate on that? I have a DAF at Vanguard and one at Fidelity for several years and I can’t say that I have noticed any difference in this regard.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I had called them with a similar question - the ETFs I transferred hadn’t shown up on VanguardCharitable. I was told that it would take several days. Now the website is updated showing a settlement date of 10/29. I have transferred the shares on 10/24. I’d say, give it time.praxis wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:17 pmI might find out later today. Yesterday, I opened a Vanguard DAF with a transfer of shares of a Vanguard mutual fund and I tried to hit their minimum of $25K with the number of shares I needed at the fund price shown last night late. As of this minute, no dollar amount has posted in my new account. Either the market drop today pulled my transfer amount below their minimum, or they haven't completed opening and funding my account yet. I wonder what they will do if instead of the $26K my shares were worth yesterday they are only worth $24,999. today.Faith20879 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:06 pmVery interesting. Do you initiate the request online or via a call?
We are trying to decide between Fidelity and Vanguard and so far are in agreement with your assessment.
Vanguard's rules and requirements seem to leave room for debating. For example, they have requirements for new account and on-going minimum balances. What happens if there is a big spike in the prices during the transaction, all of a sudden I no longer meet the requirement? Do they close my account or start to nickel-and-dime me?
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I can't speak to Schwab's DAF but I've had both Vanguard and Fidelity DAFs for many years. Fidelity and Schwab are similar, whereas Vanguard is different in minimums.
The advantage of Vanguard Charitable is that it makes it less likely to have a mistake occur if you want to donate specific lots of investments from Brokerage. While it's true that you can do everything through Fidelity to get your correct lots from Vanguard investments in theory, I have had to really watch the accuracy of transferring assets within Vanguard Brokerage (for example, from trusts to trusts) independent of Vanguard Charitable. I opened our Vanguard DAF out of an abundance of caution to prevent mistakes from happening.
At the time of opening the accounts many years ago, Fidelity was much, much simpler to use. The transfer amounts were lower and the grant minimums were only $50. They also had a feature of being to designate if the grant was in honor of someone or in memory of someone. Vanguard Charitable did not offer that for years but they do now. Additionally, Fidelity lots could be transferred even if the lots were non-covered. This was valuable because some of those lots went back to 2001 or so. Vanguard makes no attempt to show your specific non-covered shares although you can definitely work around it.
As mentioned upstream, you can now look into whether or not electronic transfers can be done when granting. It really does not surprise me that Fidelity and Schwab are already doing this but Vanguard does not. In time, Vanguard Charitable almost certainly will but they always seem to be late to the party.
The advantage of Vanguard Charitable is that it makes it less likely to have a mistake occur if you want to donate specific lots of investments from Brokerage. While it's true that you can do everything through Fidelity to get your correct lots from Vanguard investments in theory, I have had to really watch the accuracy of transferring assets within Vanguard Brokerage (for example, from trusts to trusts) independent of Vanguard Charitable. I opened our Vanguard DAF out of an abundance of caution to prevent mistakes from happening.
At the time of opening the accounts many years ago, Fidelity was much, much simpler to use. The transfer amounts were lower and the grant minimums were only $50. They also had a feature of being to designate if the grant was in honor of someone or in memory of someone. Vanguard Charitable did not offer that for years but they do now. Additionally, Fidelity lots could be transferred even if the lots were non-covered. This was valuable because some of those lots went back to 2001 or so. Vanguard makes no attempt to show your specific non-covered shares although you can definitely work around it.
As mentioned upstream, you can now look into whether or not electronic transfers can be done when granting. It really does not surprise me that Fidelity and Schwab are already doing this but Vanguard does not. In time, Vanguard Charitable almost certainly will but they always seem to be late to the party.
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Happy with Vanguard, but be aware you'll pay fees if you have less than $25K in there in February. There is a $25K minimum to open it and $500 minimum per donation. None of that is a deal breaker for me, but for many it is. Those folks tend to like Fidelity. Schwab is probably fine too, but I don't know it.
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Our family uses Schwab Charitable for our DAF, and Vanguard for most of our assets. I have been overall satisfied with Schwab - the interface works, the dozen grants we make a year all get through on time, and it is straightforward to donate appreciated stock.
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
We use Schwab. Very easy to use. Very good records and reporting. Also, as others have pointed out, the lower minimum donation amounts when compared with Vanguard. Some of our donations are on the smaller side, so this is an advantage for us. No complaints whatsoever.
"No man is free who must work for a living." (Illya Kuryakin)
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
It was a "sense" at the time I signed up of the integration. Hard to put a finger on it.
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
You want to donate the shares with the largest unrealized long term capital gains.praxis wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:17 pm
I happened to choose to transfer shares of the S&P 500 index fund Admiral to fund this DAF. I chose those shares because of all my accounts, I have held these the longest. I don't know exactly what my capital gains would be if I sold them instead of transferring into a DAF, but without any other compelling reason to choose shares of one of my other funds, I went with S&P 500. Would you have used different reasoning to choose?
I donate my S&P 500 shares also. They have the largest gains and are uncovered shares. I have been donating them for years to get rid of them. I backfill with TSM. Next month I will have completely eliminated them from my taxable account and probably be finished funding my DAF for life.
52% TSM, 23% TISM, 24.5% TBM, 0.5% cash
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Vanguard Charitable has a minimum of $500 for each grant to each charity. That does not meet my giving needs as I give less than that to most charities. At Fidelity Charitable and Schwab Charitable it is $50 which does meet my needs.
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I had Schwab previously- been using Fidelity since early 2020, and highly recommend over Schwab. Much better execution for grants, and getting new charities set up in the system. I found Schwab painfully slow in all aspects of dealing with their DAF group. I believe Vanguard may have higher minimums to avoid annual fees if I recall…
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
The other (unwelcome) surprise is the fees in Vanguard Charitable - just got an email from them 'reminding' me that they raised a minimum balance requirement to 25,000 (from 15000) to avoid the 250 annual maintenance fee. Fidelity charges 0.6% or $100 , whichever is higher.
I am surprised how annoyed I am at Vanguard over recent interactions and experiences. Really considering consolidating things at Fidelity
I am surprised how annoyed I am at Vanguard over recent interactions and experiences. Really considering consolidating things at Fidelity
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Anybody using Daffy? If so how has your experience been?126inc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:14 pm A brand new option started by a former coworker and former CEO of Wealthfront:
https://www.daffy.org/ (daffy = Donor Advised Fund For You)
$3/mo if you contribute < $25K a year, otherwise is $20/mo vs some percentage of funds at Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab etc
https://www.daffy.org/membership
Some press/interviews:
https://www.wealthmanagement.com/techno ... -adam-nash
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... u%E2%84%A2
Vanguard Charitable's fee for being below $25k is annoying to say the least. That's a 1% management fee!
Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
I am using Daffy. Just seeded it with $800 from a credit card contribution. The app is kind of wonky with not resolving ETFs as a valid stock to donate and in selecting charities to "like" and thus easily donate to. The web site is just a shell and all activity is through the app. Once you pick a portfolio, you have to message them to change it, there is no option to do so in the app. Support is friendly and fast (during west coast business hours) though. It makes it easy to donate from eTrade, Fidelity, Schwab, or Wells Fargo but does not automatically link to other brokers. When the $800 clears I'll donate it to a charity I am closely involved with and see how long it takes to get in their hands. Hopefully it will all be resolved by December when I need to make a ETF donation (from JPMorgan YouInvest).interwebopinion wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:56 pmAnybody using Daffy? If so how has your experience been?126inc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:14 pm A brand new option started by a former coworker and former CEO of Wealthfront:
https://www.daffy.org/ (daffy = Donor Advised Fund For You)
$3/mo if you contribute < $25K a year, otherwise is $20/mo vs some percentage of funds at Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab etc
https://www.daffy.org/membership
Some press/interviews:
https://www.wealthmanagement.com/techno ... -adam-nash
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... u%E2%84%A2
Vanguard Charitable's fee for being below $25k is annoying to say the least. That's a 1% management fee!
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Re: Donor Advised Fund, Vanguard or Schwab
Honestly would just pick wherever is closest to the assets you are going to donate.
Personally am using Schwab, but am just taking my own advice by using them.
Personally am using Schwab, but am just taking my own advice by using them.
"Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy" -- Richard Feynman