Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

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roamingzebra
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Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by roamingzebra »

Apologize in advance for the length, but I needed to do it to lay out my thoughts. Insurance and DMV matters are always complicated.

Situation: Mom finally realizes it's probably unsafe for her to drive based on age. This means a number of things will change which have ripple effects. Since I hate dealing with the DMV, I want to make sure everything is legal and any changes can be made online instead of standing five hours in the hot sun (which happened last time I was at the DMV).

Currently, we keep the car garaged at her place and I periodically use the car on short-distance trips (pre-approved by insurance company even though Mom is the only insured driver on the policy and I don't live at the same residence). I don't need to use her car but it's nice having it around in case something happens to my own car.

Goal: I'm trying to figure out the best course of action that will perhaps save money. Should I use the opportunity now to transfer the title to myself or should that happen at a (hopefully far) later date when Mom is deceased and there would be a capital gains basis step-up. The car is old but low-mileage and in decent condition, though realistically I doubt it would bring more than $10K. So money is not the main factor here. I'm currently thinking of simply transfering the vehicle registration to myself.

Following are some assumptions I'm making. If any of these assumptions are incorrect, please let me know. The biggest question concerns the existing umbrella policy:

Assumptions:
  • Driver's License - DL needs to be turned in and an ID card issued instead
  • Automobile insurance - Mom's policy needs to be canceled and I need to put her car on my own automobile policy
  • Vehicle Registration - Car needs to be registered under my own name and address
  • Vehicle Garaging - Even with the vehicle newly registered under my own name and address it is still okay to keep the car garaged at Mom's place.
  • Umbrella Insurance - I'm assuming umbrella insurance is no longer needed. I believe the intent of the policy was if Mom or (deceased) Dad was involved in an at-fault automobile accident, they would be covered in the event of a lawsuit involving big dollar amounts. Surviving parent (Mom) is now the only insured driver on the policy. If she is no longer an insured driver, she would no longer need umbrella insurance coverage, correct? The exception would be if the policy acted as an add-on to her existing homeowner's policy and I'm not sure how to determine that. (I have no understanding of her HO policy.) Note that Mom has a high-value home.
Shallowpockets
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by Shallowpockets »

Most of your concerns are related to your mother's car itself and not her driving. And, not even to your mothers feelings about the car, but to your feelings. Seems like you want to hold on to it for the sake of maybe needing it. You assumptions are only correct if you keep the car. I don't see the point.
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cheese_breath
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by cheese_breath »

So you've made the decision Mom's car is going to be yours. Does Mom agree with this? If so, then do it right. Get the title transferred to you. Mom can gift it to you.

I don't know what capital gains basis step-up you're envisioning on an old car that will only depreciate more over time.
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Dontridetheindexdown
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by Dontridetheindexdown »

In every state of which I am aware, transfer of vehicle ownership from parent to child is not taxed.

Your Mom can sign her car title over to you, and you can register and insure it.

Just be sure to let your insurance know where it will be garaged.

You Mom can keep her driver's license, to use as identification.

There is no need for her to "turn-in" her license.

When her license expires, it may be renewable on-line.

If not renewable, she most likely has other forms of identification, or she can apply for a state-issued identification card.
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Kenkat
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by Kenkat »

Basically you are considering having a second car to use and have a convenient way to obtain one where you know the history, etc.

Many states will allow tax free title transfers between family members on vehicles. I don’t see step up basis being any concern; cars are depreciating assets, no one typically ever has a gain when they sell any normal, non-collector vehicle.

For the umbrella policy, I would keep it. An umbrella policy covers not only automobile liability but also any other liability that may arise from her property or other actions - i.e., someone injures themself on her property and sues. If the umbrella policy does not cover this situation, she should get one that does.
Mr. Rumples
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by Mr. Rumples »

Note on gifting a vehicle. It can be tax exempt but it may require an additional form to claim the tax exemption. The VA form is linked below; your state would have a similar form. (Better to get it all in hand to avoid repeated trips/calls.)

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/webdoc/pdf/sut3.pdf

Ask the local taxing authority, not the DMV, about any issues which may arise where the garage jurisdiction is different than the jurisdiction where the owner lives. This assumes the owner's address and the garage jurisdiction are in the same state. In VA, having out of state plates on a vehicle garaged in VA is strictly regulated by Code and is only permitted for the military and in a few other cases.
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rebellovw
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by rebellovw »

I can only add - to be absolutely grateful that your mom has given up driving - we tried to get my mom & dad to quit and couldn't and it was always a huge concern. One time they came back from dinner with 4 flat tires as they drove the wrong way over a pair of parking lot spikes. They drove all the way home like that.

Was a relief when that was over.
stan1
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by stan1 »

In my state you can transfer the title online if all the paperwork is in order. No visit to the DMV is required.

If asked you would let your insurer know the address where the car is garaged. My insurer asks that question. Could vary by state. Crossing a state boundary would be an issue to be handled on a case by case basis. Your insurer may want to know that she does not have a driver's license, in which case you would need to swap her drivers license for an ID card. That process might also be doable online depending upon what state you are in. Since COVID my state has moved a lot of DMV transactions online.

Get a quote for the umbrella policy when you notify the insurer that she is no longer driving. Cost should drop down a lot if she no longer drives, but there still could be a kid who skateboards over a crack in the driveway and falls or a worker who trips over a hose. The cost of the umbrella policy might be very low relative to the protection it would provide if something did happen on her property.

My mom is 88 and has not driven for a number of years. She has become very adept at ordering what she needs from Amazon and her local grocery store. Both are very valuable in this situation. She still likes to go grocery shopping, and will when someone can take her, but she knows how to do it online herself and get it delivered. Her local grocery store has a "no tips required" policy which she happily takes advantage of. The delivery person drops the bags, rings the bell, and dashes away before she comes to the door.
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roamingzebra
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by roamingzebra »

rebellovw wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:04 pm I can only add - to be absolutely grateful that your mom has given up driving - we tried to get my mom & dad to quit and couldn't and it was always a huge concern. One time they came back from dinner with 4 flat tires as they drove the wrong way over a pair of parking lot spikes. They drove all the way home like that.

Was a relief when that was over.
Yes. This has been a huge relief for me.

When my Dad stopped driving it was because he had an accident. I didn't want that to happen to Mom.

When my Mom was driving before the pandemic, she had been brushing against structures at gas stations and scaring people in small parking lots who shouted "She shouldn't be driving a car!" But I've let her drive locally as there is little traffic. When the pandemic hit, there was nowhere for her to drive, so over time she has gotten over the urge and has encouraged me to drive the car to keep it in good condition.

Last week she finally uttered the sentence I hoped to hear: "Back when I used to drive..." Haha! Relief!

It's been an ordeal deciding what to do since she is very old but in excellent health. She looks and acts half her age, and has always been an excellent driver and knows her way around. But you can't ignore chronological age. She's reached the point of forgetting a lot of short-term things and it's a sure fact that a visit to her doctor would label her as having dementia (as has already been done in my Mom's health portal).

I'm sorry I didn't make that background clear to others. Now, I just want to do what I need to do about the car so I don't have to worry about it.
cadreamer2015
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by cadreamer2015 »

Why not sell your Mon’s car and rent a car yourself for the infrequent occasions where you need another car?
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by crefwatch »

Not to be silly, but if your mom's garage is in a Condo, or closely spaced homes, a fire could make you wish you had Umbrella insurance yourself. Cars do catch fire from time to time.

You didn't ask, I think, whether you mom has the money to call taxis, or if you are the chauffeur from now on. Does she WANT to be chauffeured in her old car? That is the kind of irrational romantic memory that made my mother resist my selling the stocks her FATHER left to her ... like KODAK, for instance!
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roamingzebra
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by roamingzebra »

cadreamer2015 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:18 pm Why not sell your Mon’s car and rent a car yourself for the infrequent occasions where you need another car?
That's another possibility I've been considering. There have been a few people over the years who have expressed an interest in the car. What's holding me up there is insufficient knowledge about things like Carvana. Ideally, I'd like to get a quote from Carvana and a quote from the interested individuals and then go with the best price. But I don't know how Carvana works and I wouldn't want to commit to Carvana without comparing their price against others.
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roamingzebra
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by roamingzebra »

crefwatch wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:23 pm You didn't ask, I think, whether you mom has the money to call taxis, or if you are the chauffeur from now on. Does she WANT to be chauffeured in her old car? That is the kind of irrational romantic memory that made my mother resist my selling the stocks her FATHER left to her ... like KODAK, for instance!
Irrational romantic memories are a real thing. I once asked my Mom why she wanted two cars (one car is now mine) and she said it was because it reminded her of how Dad bought matching cars for her and him and it was a nice memory.

More recently, driving has been more a symbol of independence than an actual desire to drive anywhere. I drive her wherever she wants to go as I live nearby, but she has been carving out a space where she can just hop in the car at any minute "in case there's an emergency". There hasn't been an emergency in the decades that she's lived in the house and the main emergency I could imagine for the future is if she drove somewhere by herself and got in an accident!

But I'll reiterate it's been painful dealing with the driving issue. She has been one of the best drivers I've known and knows the various towns like a taxi driver, and knows the short-cuts and back alleys. But when she has reached the point of being embarrassed to go to the same five body shops since she's visited them so often (to fix minor damage), you know things can't be stretched too much further.
cadreamer2015
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by cadreamer2015 »

That's another possibility I've been considering. There have been a few people over the years who have expressed an interest in the car. What's holding me up there is insufficient knowledge about things like Carvana. Ideally, I'd like to get a quote from Carvana and a quote from the interested individuals and then go with the best price. But I don't know how Carvana works and I wouldn't want to commit to Carvana without comparing their price against others.
Carvana, CarMax, Vroom, Kelley's Blue Book will all enable to you get a price/value quote on the car. Just enter the details of the car (make, model, year, mileage, condition, color, optional equipment). They will quote you a price they will buy the car for. You aren't committed to any of them until you sign the paperwork and they give you a check. I had an appointment to sell our last car to CarMax but got a better offer from a Ford dealer who was much closer. I just called the CarMax folks and cancelled the appointment after I had signed the paperwork at the Ford dealer, who had contacted me through a Kelley Blue Book site.
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skis4hire
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by skis4hire »

The used car market is nuts right now, you will get top dollar and that won't last forever. With Uber etc., Keeping a car around just in case isn't really prudent anymore. So my recommendation is to sell the car.
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by tibbitts »

Maybe I missed it but regarding what to do with the car: what car is it, what's it worth, and where would you store it if you keep it? You said it's being stored now but not at your residence, so how do you access it without using a second car if you plan to keep it where it is?
Mike Scott
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by Mike Scott »

You are making this too complicated. She sells her car and stops paying for insurance. No more problem. She gets lucky that this is a great time to sell a car.
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by bradinsky »

In Ohio, any car dealer will make you an offer for a vehicle, on the spot. On line, Kelley Blue Book will give you an estimate of your vehicle’s value. It’s reasonably accurate as long as you are honest & don’t embellish. Do your due diligence prior to going to any dealership.
FWIW, in Ohio a individual may gift a motor vehicle to someone without any money changing hands & zero sales tax. Is that an option in your state? Gifting it to you might make selling the vehicle easier for you & your mom.
Northern Flicker
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by Northern Flicker »

Step-up in basis on a used car? What is it, a restored 1955 Corvette or other collectible car?
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roamingzebra
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by roamingzebra »

Northern Flicker wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:02 pm Step-up in basis on a used car??? What is it, a restored 1955 Corvette or other collectible car?
Naw, I misspoke. Caffeine hadn't hit my brain yet.

To whoever wants to answer: I'm still a little confused about the Carvana, Carmax, Kelly Blue Book, etc. Is it fair to say that some of these outfits require an in-person appointment and others don't? If they quote a price, car unseen, and later see that a person wasn't acting in good faith when providing info, I assume there would be a modification in the price? Just curious as this is a totally different style of business than I'm familiar with.

To an earlier poster. I have my own car at my own residence. Mom has her own car at her residence. She has a bigger garage than me so if I had her vehicle transferred to me, I'd still want to keep it in her garage. We live in the same city.

I recently was involved in a car accident (other guy's fault) and my Mom's second car became my new car. I was glad we had that second car in the family. So that's what I'm envisioning by keeping a second car. It's a security blanket. Nothing would change in the physical environment regarding the car. The only thing that would change is the ownership and/or registration.

But if the used car market is as hot as everyone says, it may be best to sell and give up the security blanket, renting a car as needed if there is another accident. Plus getting rid of the car means no more annual inspections and maintenance, not to mention insurance, for a car that is rarely used.
5outof10
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by 5outof10 »

Just my 1 cent:

Do you have siblings? Do they want the car too? Was your mom intending to give it to someone else?

Assuming she wants you to have it:
Own it in your name only and take her off (Why would you want to pay for tabs every year for a backup?).
Insure it only on your policy (Why would you want to pay for insurance every year for a backup?).
Pay for maintenance and repairs with only your money (Why would you want to pay for maintenance and repairs every year for a backup?).
Store it on your own property (Why add storage damage and theft risks?).
Also, make sure there is no lien card on it.
Also, run it consistently so it's ready when you need it (What's worse than one inoperable vehicle?...).

Seems like a lot of work and $ for a car to use when your car is in the shop. Buy low, sell high. You can sell used cars easily right now.

Like someone said, get an online BOB estimate and drive it to a dealer or two for prices. Then list it for more than those online. Start there.

In July I sold a 2004 Toyota Corolla. Manual. @340,000 miles (note: odometer froze at 299,999, which I listed clearly on every document.) Body was in terrible condition. Prior owner smoked in iy. KBB said $600. Local Toyota dealer offered $1,000. I got more. They listed it online, noting the odometer was not actual, at $3,999. Was off the website within 2 weeks.
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by Afty »

roamingzebra wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:44 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:02 pm Step-up in basis on a used car??? What is it, a restored 1955 Corvette or other collectible car?
I recently was involved in a car accident (other guy's fault) and my Mom's second car became my new car. I was glad we had that second car in the family. So that's what I'm envisioning by keeping a second car. It's a security blanket. Nothing would change in the physical environment regarding the car. The only thing that would change is the ownership and/or registration.

But if the used car market is as hot as everyone says, it may be best to sell and give up the security blanket, renting a car as needed if there is another accident. Plus getting rid of the car means no more annual inspections and maintenance, not to mention insurance, for a car that is rarely used.
You can add rental car coverage to your auto insurance for just this situation. It will be much cheaper than keeping a rarely driven second car around.
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by egrets »

You and your Mom both need umbrella insurance My insurance company automatically covers rental cars for a period of time, but call yours and ask what they do.
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by SmileyFace »

Going thru this now myself and came to conclusion it is too much in insurance and maintenance to keep annextra car on the road (but maybe insruance cheaper in your state). AND - there is a used car shortage right now so my parent can get a decent price even if sold wholesale to a local dealer.
Price it out (including oppirtunity cost of what you can get for the car) and you will likely find it isn't worth the cost to keep an extra car around.
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by crefwatch »

roamingzebra wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:44 pm To an earlier poster. I have my own car at my own residence. Mom has her own car at her residence. She has a bigger garage than me so if I had her vehicle transferred to me, I'd still want to keep it in her garage. We live in the same city.

I recently was involved in a car accident (other guy's fault) and my Mom's second car became my new car. I was glad we had that second car in the family. So that's what I'm envisioning by keeping a second car. It's a security blanket. Nothing would change in the physical environment regarding the car. The only thing that would change is the ownership and/or registration.
I am an outlier because I grew up in New York City, and neither of my parents ever owned a car in their entire lives. But I've lived in a car-culture suburb for 50 years. I have a neighbor's adult child who has four shiny cars, even though she is a childless window in retirement. She loves those cars.

You are making an emotional decision, not a practical one. I don't know about insurance rates in your area, but it is financially wrong to keep a never-driven used car around as a security blanket. There are other means for transportation if your own car (do you maintain it properly, or spend nothing unless absolutely necessary?) is out of service. You are under the spell of both the auto manufacturers and the teens you went to high school with who worshipped their cars and saw them as a way to get dates. Set emotion aside and think about a)Your actual needs b)Your mother's happiness.

It is possible that your job makes a difference, (say, fire-fighter or leveraged-buyouts or doctor ..... ) where you have little control over your work hours, and cannot call in for a personal day. But as the French say, "The cemeteries are full of Indispensable People." I twice chose a new car dealer because there was a bus stop to my work city near the dealership. I didn't choose on the basis of his newspaper add where he promised me happiness and romantic success if I bought his cars.
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by dbr »

roamingzebra wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:20 pm
  • Driver's License - DL needs to be turned in and an ID card issued instead

    No, she does not have to turn in her driver's license.
  • Automobile insurance - Mom's policy needs to be canceled and I need to put her car on my own automobile policy
  • Vehicle Registration - Car needs to be registered under my own name and address
  • Vehicle Garaging - Even with the vehicle newly registered under my own name and address it is still okay to keep the car garaged at Mom's place.

    She can give/sell you the car which includes that the insurance coverage goes to you. You can advise your insurance company where the car is garaged.
  • Umbrella Insurance - I'm assuming umbrella insurance is no longer needed. I believe the intent of the policy was if Mom or (deceased) Dad was involved in an at-fault automobile accident, they would be covered in the event of a lawsuit involving big dollar amounts. Surviving parent (Mom) is now the only insured driver on the policy. If she is no longer an insured driver, she would no longer need umbrella insurance coverage, correct? The exception would be if the policy acted as an add-on to her existing homeowner's policy and I'm not sure how to determine that. (I have no understanding of her HO policy.) Note that Mom has a high-value home.
Your mother still needs to maintain umbrella insurance (your understanding is exactly wrong) as well as homeowners/renters insurance. The issue is personal liability coverage together with property coverage.

When we hired home health care for my mother she had to add employer's insurance as well as Workman's Comp and Unemployment coverage.
Sammy45
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by Sammy45 »

Been through this recently with my Father as well..

As others have pointed out - just sell the car and get a rental for visits.

While having a car available for my use during visits to see my Dad was nice, it became very clear that it was just a huge parked liability & hassle. Dead Batteries & Leaking tires would generally welcome me upon each visit. Even after promising not to drive (which was not easy, so count your blessings with your mom!), my Dad would wander outside to the car in his walker to try and drive it. Likely his caregivers would stop him in time.

After selling the car to Carmax, it was such a relief and one less thing to worry about. I have never second guessed that decision.

Rental Cars are starting to be more reasonable & available for visits in my case.

Also - do not drop the umbrella policy as others have mentioned.
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roamingzebra
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by roamingzebra »

I appreciate the replies.

I just want to clarify that the security blanket revolves around the fact that my prior car was totaled. If I had to buy a brand new car (I would never buy used), that would have been a huge amount of money that I doubt insurance would adequately cover. As it is, I just seamlessly adopted my Mom's second car as my own. So having an extra car around is comforting.

Still, I realize emotions are in the way here. The likelihood of me experiencing another accident where the car is totaled is probably low since I've adapted my driving to the new environment in my area: a lot more cars and a lot more clueless drivers who do dumb things. I used to drive defensively, now I drive super defensively, and I've avoided several potential collisions by drivers doing the most outrageous things. With luck, my current car will last for many years. It has low mileage, and as I am now retired and don't drive that much it will remain low mileage, so knock on wood.
clip651
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by clip651 »

Why not talk to your Mom about it, and see what she wants to do? Maybe she'd like the money from selling it. Maybe she likes the idea of keeping it for the moment for a spare car for you. (My parents were always reluctant to let go of a car they already owned that still ran well, so I understand the reflex.) Maybe she would like you to drive her around in her own car when you visit, and/or have other relatives drive her around in her own car when they visit. Maybe she'd like the garage space for something else. People above have posted pros and cons to each option. But what does your Mom want? Start the conversation and see what happens. If she doesn't want to sell it yet, she can sell it later.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by JoeRetire »

roamingzebra wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:20 pm Situation: Mom finally realizes it's probably unsafe for her to drive based on age.
It's great that she realized this on her own.
Goal: I'm trying to figure out the best course of action that will perhaps save money.
First, ask mom what she wants to do with her car. Even though she no longer drives it, she retains ownership.

Second, if she wants to save money, you should help her sell it. (It makes no financial sense for her to keep it around thinking that perhaps some day you might need it. And it makes no sense financially for you to own two cars.)
Umbrella Insurance - I'm assuming umbrella insurance is no longer needed.
Wait until she sells the car before getting rid of any insurance, particularly if you drive her car occasionally. It wouldn't make sense to put her at financial risk for your convenience.
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by spammagnet »

cadreamer2015 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:54 pmCarvana, ...
Carvana is the source of serious problems with title transfers in multiple states. I suggest avoiding them except perhaps as a source of comparative sales.
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Watty
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by Watty »

roamingzebra wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:20 pm Vehicle Garaging - Even with the vehicle newly registered under my own name and address it is still okay to keep the car garaged at Mom's place.
Keeping the car at her place may not be a good idea.

I know someone who had a parent with early dementia and they were not too bad but they keep trying to use the car even though they had supposedly given up driving a few years before. If they could get access to the car keys they would try to take the car out and one time they had to be chased down while they were driving the car in circles in a cul-de-sac.
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roamingzebra
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by roamingzebra »

Watty wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:21 pm
roamingzebra wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:20 pm Vehicle Garaging - Even with the vehicle newly registered under my own name and address it is still okay to keep the car garaged at Mom's place.
Keeping the car at her place may not be a good idea.

I know someone who had a parent with early dementia and they were not too bad but they keep trying to use the car even though they had supposedly given up driving a few years before. If they could get access to the car keys they would try to take the car out and one time they had to be chased down while they were driving the car in circles in a cul-de-sac.
I figured out a way around that. The car isn't used that much so I keep it on a battery tender. If Mom went into the garage and saw the hood up and a wire coming out of the battery, she would not touch it. She has a built-in self-preservation instinct and would realize she'd better not put the key in the igntion. That was not the intention of the tender but it was a nice byproduct. (And yes, I told her what the tender was for, but it went right over her head. What she doesn't understand, she will avoid. :) )
clip651
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by clip651 »

roamingzebra wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:48 pm
Watty wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:21 pm
roamingzebra wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:20 pm Vehicle Garaging - Even with the vehicle newly registered under my own name and address it is still okay to keep the car garaged at Mom's place.
Keeping the car at her place may not be a good idea.

I know someone who had a parent with early dementia and they were not too bad but they keep trying to use the car even though they had supposedly given up driving a few years before. If they could get access to the car keys they would try to take the car out and one time they had to be chased down while they were driving the car in circles in a cul-de-sac.
I figured out a way around that. The car isn't used that much so I keep it on a battery tender. If Mom went into the garage and saw the hood up and a wire coming out of the battery, she would not touch it. She has a built-in self-preservation instinct and would realize she'd better not put the key in the igntion. That was not the intention of the tender but it was a nice byproduct. (And yes, I told her what the tender was for, but it went right over her head. What she doesn't understand, she will avoid. :) )
If she is truly never going to drive again, don't rely on the battery tender as any sort of safety mechanism for the long term. Take all copies of the keys, and keep them with you and away from her. If you own the car (once the title is transferred) and she isn't supposed to be driving, there's no reason for her to have access to the keys. That self-preservation instinct she has now can certainly be altered by dementia in the future, and the alterations to behavior can happen intermittently and without warning (good days/bad days, clear and lucid moments vs confused ones). Attempting to drive with the hood up would only increase the hazards. There's also the chance she'd try to disconnect the tender and hurt herself, either with the electricity or injuring herself as the hood comes down. And that could happen even if she isn't trying to drive. She might walk into the garage, see the hood up, and think to herself that she should shut it. That you don't think she'd think that way now, is not necessarily a good indication of how she will think and act at any given moment in the future.

And you still haven't mentioned what your mom wants done with her car, other than that she's given up driving it.
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roamingzebra
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by roamingzebra »

clip651 wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:41 am And you still haven't mentioned what your mom wants done with her car, other than that she's given up driving it.
I'm in the early stages of this process. This is roughly how I plan to go about doing things:
  1. Get unforced admission that she doesn't consider herself a driver anymore. That's the only box I can check off for now.
  2. Get confirmation that she doesn't consider herself a driver anymore. I want to be sure that her admission last week was not a one-off.
  3. Research what options are available and what legally needs to be done to alter the status of the car. This includes the questions in my OP as well as researching the various car sales options.
  4. Slowly breach the topic of selling the car. This is a sensitive area as it's already been established that she views the physical presence of the car as a warm remembrance of her late husband. When she told me that her two cars -- it was two cars before she gave me one when mine was totalled --was a warm memory of Dad buying a matching set of cars for the two of them, I knew not to argue on the basis of practicality or cost. I was not going to deny her a warm remembrance. My number one goal is to make the later years of her life full of good feelings, warmth and fun. But as #1 has happened, things have changed and I need to figure out a way to bring up the disposition of the car in a sensitive matter. I am a stakeholder here as I am the one that drives her car, maintains the car, and fills it up with gas (the local gas station personnel would scatter in fright when she drove in and that's how I learned the term "bollard"). And as I already take care of the house maintenance for her, it would be a relief to offload one of the burdens.[/list=1]

    So that's basically it. The more I research and the more info I get on the value of the car, the better case I can make based on the facts when I reach step no. 4. She understands money well enough to know that selling a car when the market is hot is beneficial. But I would have to be able to give her concrete numbers and thus I am still in the early stages on this.
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by Doom&Gloom »

When MIL decided she could no longer drive on public roads, she refused to sell her van. At some point she could no longer resist the temptation to drive again. We still don't know if she took it on the streets. She claimed to have driven it only on her driveway and the driveways of a couple of neighbors in her semi-rural area. She blamed the tire tracks in her yard on various delivery drivers. She eventually relented and sold the van.

Similarly a friend with Parkinson's and advancing dementia tried to drive his pickup truck long after he had decided he could no longer drive but didn't want to sell the truck. A vehicle in the garage of someone who can not drive safely is a very attractive nuisance.
Mike Scott
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by Mike Scott »

Disconnect something so it will not start and you don't have to worry about it being driven without you.
ZWorkLess
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by ZWorkLess »

One consideration… if your mom ever needs home help, her having a car could he very helpful, When my mom had dementia and couldn’t safely drive, we had her hired helpers/aides drive her on errands/outings/etc in her own car. I wouldn’t have wanted her riding in a car that wasn’t necessarily safe or well maintained.

Also, Mom loved her car and took pride in being driven in it. Pride is a valuable commodity when you’re aging… This was all while she was actually living with us and I was her primary caregiver (and we had several other cars, so her car was only used for HER).

Fwiw, I don’t see a single thing wrong with leaving the car in her name, as is, and you keep using it as needed.

Caveat: as long as the car is insured under Mom’s name, the insurance dies with her. I didn’t think of that and allowed our teen to drive it immediately after Mon’s death. He had a bad date with a rough road to a swimming hole and did significant damage a few days after she passed. (The last thing I was thinking about was cars…) I found out it was uninsured as if her date of death at that point. Fortunately, it was just a thousand or two bucks in damages and no other vehicles or humans were harmed. Could have been a disaster… So, lesson is to leave it parked until title and insurance are squared away. Adding you as a joint owner on the title and adding you to her insurance might avoid that issue.
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by ncbill »

For those who are having trouble convincing an older relative not to drive or knowing if they're still safe to do so, check with your local hospital.

Mine had a rehab program to get physically injured patients out driving again, but the geriatricians also used it with their patients for the above.

After mom was evaluated via that program & then told by her own doctor she was no longer safe to drive she easily gave in.

I still kept the car in her garage until she was institutionalized, but she never even tried to drive it again.
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illumination
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by illumination »

Get the car out of their garage or find a way to disable it so they can't drive it in case anyone changes their mind. Even if your mom is unsure, I would lean on her to let it go if there are real safety concerns.

Years ago, I was in charge of taking the keys away from my grandmother after an incident. She had an accident that was not technically her fault, but a "younger" her would probably not have experienced. A pedestrian was hit running through an intersection on a green light and fortunately just experienced minor injuries.

If you think you want the car, keep it for yourself as long as she feels adequately compensated with a sale price. Personally, I would probably buy it for myself. Since cars depreciate, I don't see how any gain in any form could be taxed if gifted (unless this is some classic car)
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by chasingbutterflies »

Re-upped this thread as I was reading it and am in a very similar situation. A few differences though...

My 80yo mother was living in another state and was making some poor decisions, not cooking for herself and thus not eating well. Senile dementia but otherwise in very good health. I suggested assisted living and she actually went for it. I found a wonderful place close to me that checks all her boxes. She has now stayed in the place about a week and things are going well. I'm currently in the process of cleaning out her old house and prepping it to sell. It probably won't go on market officially until September. The money from the house will be necessary to help cover the housing costs for Mom. With paying her debts and what the house will bring she will have assets of about 1.5m. Her current rent is high as it is a 2 bedroom place and will cost 7500/mo. All expenses covered other than health insurance and her phone. She does have long term care insurance but currently is labeled independent and it is not covering anything. In the process of moving I found her drivers license was about to expire and took her to the DMV to renew. It is in another state and so she had to take the test and did not pass it. Over the past month she has stated that she doesn't want to try to study for the test and is unlikely to drive where I live because she is unfamiliar with the area. However she is reluctant to get rid of the car. It is actually brand new as she was in an accident in 8/21 where she took a turn too sharp and ran off the road. Damage was minimal but the airbags deployed and that totaled the car. The insurance money received was enough to purchase her current car new. The car only has about 7k miles on it (most put on my me as she has significantly cut down her driving since the accident). However the car is far more comfortable for my mother than my own car which is a compact and a stick to boot. I love my car and don't really want to sell it and am willing to keep my moms car for her benefit when I'm driving her around. I anticipate taking a few 'Sunday road trips' for her entertainment and a comfortable car would make that nicer for her. Moreover last March I cut my knee and was unable to use my car for a few weeks until the stitches were out and I could bend it. With her car I was able to continue to work and get around. I am a doctor and not having a car would be a hardship if I was unable to use it. That being said I am willing to foot the cost on insurance and upkeep for that purpose. I have a 2 car garage but it would be a tight fit and as I currently could use some storage space (until we have successfully 'downsized' my mom's house) I can rent a garage at the facility where she stays for 100 dollars a month. With that understanding is it best to have her transfer the title? I anticipate going to the DMV to change her renewal to an ID card application next week and I can transfer the title then. I've already discussed the insurance and the cost would be about 1k/yr in addition to my own cost. I know financially the best thing would be to sell it but my Mom's considerations are paramount to me and it is a cost I can well afford.
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by Outer Marker »

chasingbutterflies wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2023 5:12 pm Re-upped this thread as I was reading it and am in a very similar situation. A few differences though...

My 80yo mother was living in another state and was making some poor decisions, not cooking for herself and thus not eating well. Senile dementia but otherwise in very good health. I suggested assisted living and she actually went for it. I found a wonderful place close to me that checks all her boxes. She has now stayed in the place about a week and things are going well. I'm currently in the process of cleaning out her old house and prepping it to sell. It probably won't go on market officially until September. The money from the house will be necessary to help cover the housing costs for Mom. With paying her debts and what the house will bring she will have assets of about 1.5m. Her current rent is high as it is a 2 bedroom place and will cost 7500/mo. All expenses covered other than health insurance and her phone. She does have long term care insurance but currently is labeled independent and it is not covering anything. In the process of moving I found her drivers license was about to expire and took her to the DMV to renew. It is in another state and so she had to take the test and did not pass it. Over the past month she has stated that she doesn't want to try to study for the test and is unlikely to drive where I live because she is unfamiliar with the area. However she is reluctant to get rid of the car. It is actually brand new as she was in an accident in 8/21 where she took a turn too sharp and ran off the road. Damage was minimal but the airbags deployed and that totaled the car. The insurance money received was enough to purchase her current car new. The car only has about 7k miles on it (most put on my me as she has significantly cut down her driving since the accident). However the car is far more comfortable for my mother than my own car which is a compact and a stick to boot. I love my car and don't really want to sell it and am willing to keep my moms car for her benefit when I'm driving her around. I anticipate taking a few 'Sunday road trips' for her entertainment and a comfortable car would make that nicer for her. Moreover last March I cut my knee and was unable to use my car for a few weeks until the stitches were out and I could bend it. With her car I was able to continue to work and get around. I am a doctor and not having a car would be a hardship if I was unable to use it. That being said I am willing to foot the cost on insurance and upkeep for that purpose. I have a 2 car garage but it would be a tight fit and as I currently could use some storage space (until we have successfully 'downsized' my mom's house) I can rent a garage at the facility where she stays for 100 dollars a month. With that understanding is it best to have her transfer the title? I anticipate going to the DMV to change her renewal to an ID card application next week and I can transfer the title then. I've already discussed the insurance and the cost would be about 1k/yr in addition to my own cost. I know financially the best thing would be to sell it but my Mom's considerations are paramount to me and it is a cost I can well afford.
Why resurrect this Zombie thread?

Collect your thoughts and reduce this wall-o-text to a short and coherent new post. You'll get much better advice.
clip651
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by clip651 »

chasingbutterflies wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2023 5:12 pm Re-upped this thread as I was reading it and am in a very similar situation. A few differences though...

My 80yo mother was living in another state and was making some poor decisions, not cooking for herself and thus not eating well. Senile dementia but otherwise in very good health. I suggested assisted living and she actually went for it. I found a wonderful place close to me that checks all her boxes. She has now stayed in the place about a week and things are going well. I'm currently in the process of cleaning out her old house and prepping it to sell. It probably won't go on market officially until September. The money from the house will be necessary to help cover the housing costs for Mom. With paying her debts and what the house will bring she will have assets of about 1.5m. Her current rent is high as it is a 2 bedroom place and will cost 7500/mo. All expenses covered other than health insurance and her phone. She does have long term care insurance but currently is labeled independent and it is not covering anything.

In the process of moving I found her drivers license was about to expire and took her to the DMV to renew. It is in another state and so she had to take the test and did not pass it. Over the past month she has stated that she doesn't want to try to study for the test and is unlikely to drive where I live because she is unfamiliar with the area. However she is reluctant to get rid of the car. It is actually brand new as she was in an accident in 8/21 where she took a turn too sharp and ran off the road. Damage was minimal but the airbags deployed and that totaled the car. The insurance money received was enough to purchase her current car new. The car only has about 7k miles on it (most put on my me as she has significantly cut down her driving since the accident).

However the car is far more comfortable for my mother than my own car which is a compact and a stick to boot. I love my car and don't really want to sell it and am willing to keep my moms car for her benefit when I'm driving her around. I anticipate taking a few 'Sunday road trips' for her entertainment and a comfortable car would make that nicer for her. Moreover last March I cut my knee and was unable to use my car for a few weeks until the stitches were out and I could bend it. With her car I was able to continue to work and get around. I am a doctor and not having a car would be a hardship if I was unable to use it.

That being said I am willing to foot the cost on insurance and upkeep for that purpose. I have a 2 car garage but it would be a tight fit and as I currently could use some storage space (until we have successfully 'downsized' my mom's house) I can rent a garage at the facility where she stays for 100 dollars a month.

With that understanding is it best to have her transfer the title? I anticipate going to the DMV to change her renewal to an ID card application next week and I can transfer the title then. I've already discussed the insurance and the cost would be about 1k/yr in addition to my own cost. I know financially the best thing would be to sell it but my Mom's considerations are paramount to me and it is a cost I can well afford.
I added some line breaks into your post to break it up.

With everything you’ve described, it makes sense for her to retitle the car to you, and fit you to take over financial responsibility for the car. You will need to let the insurance know where the car will be garaged.
InMyDreams
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by InMyDreams »

For government issued ID - does she have a passport? My father's driver's license had expired, but his passport was still valid..
clip651
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Re: Parent No Longer Driving Car - What to Do

Post by clip651 »

InMyDreams wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2023 7:41 pm For government issued ID - does she have a passport? My father's driver's license had expired, but his passport was still valid..
A state ID is handier than a passport - fits in a wallet, etc. Then the passport can stay safe at home for day to day stuff like doctor appts when ID is needed.
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